#111 "UFOs Down Under"- With Grant Lavac: Australia & The Phenomenon

0:00 Asking ARA to show the evidence as well to back up the claims that they're

0:04 making within their report and the glaring there's two glaring omissions from the report.

0:11 One was what kind of what kicked all of this off in twenty seventeen was

0:17 the two thousand and four USS mimics takes. There is completely no mention whatsoever

0:23 of the minute that the limits of the tic TAC incident of the two thousand

0:28 and four And we can talk about the history, but basically in the mid

0:33 ninety nineties, in nineten ninety six, the Royal Australian Air Force basically couldn't

0:37 wiped its hands. Clan said move along, folks, there's nothing to see

0:40 here. And they haven't touched the topic since they ceased all of their investigation.

0:45 So you know, Australia has just been burying its head in the sand.

0:49 Members of the Defense Services, you know, coming forward to the likes

0:53 of Ross coulta of the day, in this day and age that we live

0:57 in now, you know F thirty five have polots that are saying, look,

1:00 we're seeing things in Australia in space that we can reconcile or or or

1:06 identify the line that it's held for a long time that you know, this

1:10 is just a US problem. It's nothing for a strategy to be concerned about.

1:29 All right, guys, welcome back to Total Disclosure. My name is

1:33 Tay and I'm the host and creator of the show. Hey, we're here

1:37 and we have a lovely, lovely show. Uh. We got the UFOs

1:42 down Under with Grant Levac. Today is going to be so fun. I've

1:47 been looking forward to the show for quite some time now. Grant as an

1:51 Australian UAP activist, researcher and podcaster residing in Melbourne. Grant has at a

1:57 fascination for U A P S or UFO since he was a young child,

2:01 and considering himself to be just an ordinary guy who believes in extraordinary things,

2:07 with a healthy degree of skepticism and open mind thrown in there together for good

2:12 measure. Uh. Grant frequently leverages the Freedom of Information Act to better understand

2:17 Australia's involvement, or rather lackter of, of the UAP issue, and engages

2:24 both his elected representatives and like see media in the hope that they'll take this

2:30 topic seriously. Another guy that we know from down Under that's doing that very

2:34 well is Ross Coltart, and you know they're both good friends. It's time

2:39 that we welcome mister Grant Levac to the show. How you doing, brother,

2:45 I'm good, my friend. Thanks talk for having me on. It's

2:47 good to be with you and look forward having a chat. Yeah. I

2:52 mean, aside from from you and Ross Coltart, I want to start off

2:55 by saying, why, why why is your country so far lacking? Yeah,

3:07 I mean it's a good question, and it's a question that I've been

3:10 trying to wrap my head around for ever since I you know, really became

3:16 a sponge and tried to soak up as much as I could throughout COVID.

3:21 You know, so many of us we were locked at home and we kind

3:23 of had a lot more time on our hands. So I've you know,

3:28 with all of the activity that's been happening in the United States really since the

3:31 New York Times Bombshaw articles in twenty seventeen, it got me asking me a

3:38 question, Well, you know, what is Australia doing about UAPs? And

3:40 unfortunately, very very little, but not a lot of people know that Australia

3:46 has almost as long as their history investigating the uapufo topic as the United States

3:52 does you know, dating back to the early nineteen fifties, a couple of

3:55 years after Roswell, the Department of Air which later on the Royal Australian Air

4:00 Force, and another now defunct government agency, the Department of Supply and the

4:04 Joint Intelligence Organization. There was an effort, a concerted effort to investigate uap

4:14 UFOs in Australia from the fifties through to the mid ninety nineties. And we

4:18 referred to the vernacular that was used in Australia in those decades past was uas

4:24 unusual aerial sightings. That was the you know, that was the term that

4:29 was used down Under. And you know, there was there was this effort,

4:34 and we can talk about the history, but basically in in the mid

4:39 ninety nineties, in nineteen ninety six, the Royal Australian Air Force basically just

4:43 wiped its hands. Claian said, move along, folks, there's nothing to

4:46 see here. And they haven't touched the topics since they ceased all of their

4:49 investigation into UAP because they their reasoning was they couldn't find any compelling or other

4:57 scientific reason to continue to devote resources to the instigation of uap But that was

5:01 back in nineteen ninety six. Fast forward to twenty twenty four and we live

5:03 in a very very different world and the landscape on the uap UFO topic is

5:09 very different than what it was back then. So you know, Australia has

5:13 just been burying its head in the sand and towing the line that it's held

5:17 for a long time that you know, this is just a US problem.

5:21 It's nothing for Australia to be concerned about. We know what's in our skies.

5:25 We have you know, air dominance, when in actual fact they don't,

5:30 because Australia has some pretty significant historical uap UFO cases, and you have

5:36 members of the Defense services coming forward to the likes of Ross Coultart today in

5:44 this day and age that we live in now, you know f thirty five

5:47 pilots that are saying, look, we're seeing things in Australia their space that

5:51 we can't reconcile or identify. What should we do because we don't want to

5:58 report it to our higher ups at the Royal Australian Air Force because you know,

6:02 there's still this era of ridicule and stigma that plagues this top this topic

6:06 down Under and that people don't want to have a blemish, you know,

6:12 put against their flight record if they if they report an observation of UAP and

6:16 they what's the point of reporting it because there's no there's currently no reporting or

6:21 reporting mechanisms in place whatsoever. And that's what I think to kind of,

6:26 you know, wrap up my long winded answer for you. I think that's

6:29 the real national security threat that Australia is faced with. If you've got both

6:34 military, civil and general aviation pilots and you know, members of the defense

6:41 services that are seeing unidentified anomalist phenomena or anomalous objects in Australian airspace or in

6:48 Australian waters that they can't identify, and they're choosing not to report it out

6:53 of a fear of ridicule and stigma and being ostracized. That's the real threat

6:58 because what if one of those objects was a foreign adversarial system, like belonging

7:03 to Russia or China. That is a huge national security threat. And what

7:08 if it's something that's more exotic beyond the prosaic explanation, what if it's something

7:13 in the catch all other bin that ODI and I put in its June twenty

7:20 twenty one Preliminary Assessment on UAP. So it's just unfortunately Australia is continuing to

7:27 bear its head in the cander of the topic. The needle is starting to

7:29 move a little bit, and I can talk about why. I think that's

7:31 the cases we go through, but that kind of gives you a little bit

7:34 of a history lesson on I guess Australia's involvement in the past and where they're

7:41 currently at their current position, right and it is I feel that they're obviously

7:50 like like you know, when we talked about it before, a lot of

7:55 people in the US they think that this is a United States centralized phenomena,

8:03 but they don't realize that it's it's global. And like you said, you

8:07 know, the the the asses have just as long a record investigating this.

8:13 And I think that would be true if you said about any country uh that

8:18 takes itself seriously uh in in its advancement, right, China, Russia,

8:24 Pakistan, I mean, Pakistan, uh, you name it. If they

8:28 have any capability and they're not in looking into this, then they're doing themselves

8:33 a disservice. That's quite frankly, how I see it to to I mean,

8:41 this latest historical report by Arrow is just to get your to get your

8:46 we we don't have to waste too much time on that hot garbage. But

8:52 since there is a part two coming out, you do use the FOYA system

8:56 a lot in your own country. What do you think of about this latest

9:00 attempt by the d D and the office of doctor shank or formerly doctor Shanker

9:07 Patrick. Yeah, I mean, look for someone that is completely new to

9:13 the topic and and hasn't invested the time, nager and effort that we have

9:16 to research it and know the history in the backstory. I mean, on

9:20 a positive front, it does provide a good timeline of historical events, you

9:24 know, from your project signed the mid forties through to where we are today.

9:31 So you know, it's it's informative from that perspective. But it's obviously

9:35 you know, there are there are a number of factual errors that are included.

9:39 There's no substantiation to any of the claims that are that are documented in

9:46 Ara's report. I mean everyone's asking David Grush to show the evidence. Well,

9:50 you know we should be asking Arra to show the evidence as well.

9:54 To back up the claims that they're making within their report and the glaring there's

10:00 two glaring omissions from the report. One was kind of what kicked all of

10:05 this off in twenty seventeen was the two thousand and four Ussnimets case. There

10:11 is completely no mention whatsoever of the minute that the Knimets or the tic Tac

10:18 incident of two thousand and four, which we know that or SAP, which

10:24 was had its moniker or a nickname of a tip, investigated the Nimetz incident

10:30 quite comprehensively. And we know that Colin Kelleher and George Knapp have stated publicly

10:37 on the record in both their books as well as podcasts that it was or

10:41 SAP that produced a one hundred and forty one page technical analysis of the Nimets

10:50 incident, in addition to a fourteen page report that the former head of the

10:56 UAP Task Force, John Jay Stratton using the pseudonym of Jonathan Axelrod in the

11:05 books that have been put out there thus far, that Jay Stratton also did

11:09 a fourteen page report on the Nimets. So why was Nimets completely omitted from

11:16 Ro's historical report. Hopefully it makes its way into volume two, but I'm

11:22 not too sure that it will because Volume two apparently is supposed to be everything

11:26 from the thirtieth first of October of last year through to now, so I

11:33 could be mistaken, but I just found that to be a glaring omission from

11:37 Arro's report. That was the first big thing I noticed the second thing,

11:41 and I was encouraged to see Eric Weinstein kind of agree on this as well.

11:46 That on page twenty six of Arrow's report, where they talk about foreign

11:52 and academic investigatory efforts, well, it references Canada's efforts, it references France,

12:00 it references some of the UK's endeavors over the years, but it completely

12:05 leaves Australia off the map. And that's significant because and Eric Weinstein and Jesse

12:11 Michaels have talked about this a number of times in documentaries and spaces on X

12:16 that there was a nineteen seventy one minute paper that was authored by Australian nuclear

12:24 scientist Harry Turner for the Joint Intelligence Organization and it's a comprehensive assessment from the

12:31 nineteen basically nineteen forty seven through to essentially nineteen seventy one when this report was

12:37 authored by Harry Turner. It comprehensively, comprehensively assesses the United States efforts to

12:46 investigate, understand the nature and extent of UAP, and it goes through a

12:50 very detailed chronological timeline. And what's fascinating that's included in this nineteen seventy one

12:56 document, which is publicly publicly through the National Archives of Australia is it references

13:03 the efforts being undertaken by a number of physicists in the United States in the

13:09 nineteen fifties to research and crack anti gravity. And that is also completely omitted

13:18 from Ara's the link the potential linking of the UFO topic and the investigations by

13:26 the United States, the Air Force, the US more broadly, and this

13:30 effort to research anti gravity. And for anyone that hasn't read that nineteen to

13:37 seventy one report, it's available in the National Archives of Australia American Alchemy,

13:43 which is Jesse Michaels's YouTube channel. Even if you just watch his most recent

13:48 documentary on Tee Townsend Brown, he covers that quite extensively, so it's it's

13:54 a truly fascinating document. It was just a real I think shame that it

14:00 wasn't included in Arrow's report. Yeah, and what was the other what's that

14:05 other report that wasn't included? I can't remember it was it the Italian?

14:11 So there was so so France has also done some comprehensive yeah report, Yeah,

14:20 that was completely omitted as well. So it's like it's like they it's

14:24 it's again. And so rather than I can't even believe I'm about to say

14:28 this, rather than grabbing one of those and citing something from one of those,

14:37 we decide to cite a wiki fan page. That's that's that's where Arrow

14:45 goes with it, instead of using uh, these you know reports made like

14:50 the one you spoke about, the Cometa report. No wiki fan page uh,

14:54 and then continues his his uh, his recent media frenzy, saying that

15:03 there's nothing to see here. And look my my take on on doctor Sean

15:07 Kirkpatrick. I mean, number one, he never wanted the job. He

15:11 was ordered to take the job, and in the interviews that he's done since

15:18 retiring from fred Federal Service, he's he's stated that publicly that he was essentially

15:22 told that you're going to have to take this, You're gonna have to stand

15:28 up this new organization. You have to do it. And in every interview

15:30 that you know, I've I've never met doctor kirk Kirkpatrick. I've only seen

15:35 him in interviews and heard him on podcasts. But at face value, he

15:43 doesn't. He's never come across as being all that enthused about his position as

15:48 the then director, our former director of the All Domain Resolution Office ARO.

15:54 He he comes across as he never wanted the job. It's a waste of

15:58 time. You know, he's just doing it as his last deliverable for the

16:04 Department of Defense before he retires. And now he's off working at oak Ridge,

16:10 which has its own links to eufology with the likes of Battel and so

16:15 on. So I think there's you know, there is certainly a degree of

16:21 a controlled narrative and a strategic narrative being being played here. Because Number One,

16:26 when you had this media event where ARROW was talking about the report that

16:37 was held by current acting Director of ARROW, Timothy Phillips, there was only

16:44 select members of select media outlets that were invited. Your News Nation was left

16:48 off the list. Stephen green Street wasn't invited. You had other networks that

16:53 were not told about it. At all, and only I only found out

16:59 about it because that information links. So you know, they're they're inviting friendly

17:03 media to a media event so that they can control the narrative and keep that

17:11 strategic narrative in place. Yeah, not even know if i'd call green Street

17:18 on our side on the UFO community. So look, and irrespective, irrespective

17:26 of what you think of Stephen green Street and he's reporting, I mean,

17:30 the fact that there was a strategic decision made by Arrow and the Pentagon to

17:38 be very selective and not invite you know, select media outlets, I mean

17:44 that does not bird well for their commitment to maximum transparency, which doctor Sean

17:51 Kirkpatrick stated in his op ed in Scientific American that you know ARO is committed

17:56 to maximum transparency. Well, that's completely bullshit. If you just look at

18:00 the select media that was invited and select media that was excluded from that media

18:06 event, it doesn't it doesn't bud Well. The optics of that don't don't

18:10 sit well for transparency. Absolutely not, absolutely not. So let's jump into

18:17 some territory you know that you're probably you know, like I said, you're

18:22 you know, this is going to be something that you probably told or talked

18:26 about many times, but you said you, you know, in the intro,

18:30 you gave me a little blurb and you so you've been fascinated that with

18:34 this since childhood, but you started really, you know, delving into it

18:41 in recent years. What sparked that initial childhood interest in the topic was some

18:48 sort of sighting and you know, if it wasn't, uh, what was

18:56 it? And then can you tell us about a little bit about what brought

19:00 you to the chair talking to me? So first and foremost, I no,

19:06 I've I've never had my own sighting. It's it's still very much on

19:08 my bucket list. I like to say, I would love to have a

19:12 siding before I should, you know, shuffle off this mortal coil. But

19:18 when I was around about you know, in the mid eighties, it was

19:22 about seven or six or seven years of age, I lived in I grew

19:26 up in Sydney, Australia, and my father took me to a photo exhibition

19:32 that was being held in Australia's tallest skyscraper was called Center Point Town. It's

19:40 kind of like the the Seattle's Needle kind of looks, you know, the

19:44 same sort of shape. Anyway, there was this this photo exhibition being run

19:51 in Sydney, and it was this is in the mid eighties, and it

19:55 was a UFO exhibition and they had a lot of you know, these black

19:59 and white photos blown up on canvases kind of displayed around the exhibition, and

20:06 I remembered I can still see it distinctly to this day. One of the

20:10 photos was the famous black and white photo of the McMinnville sighting, and I

20:17 just remember staring at this photo for what probably felt like a good ten to

20:22 fifty minutes, just trying to put myself in the shoes of that farmer or

20:26 rancher and what they would have been feeling and experiencing when they captured what is

20:33 that we now see on film in that photo from the nineteen fifties. And

20:38 so that kind of sparked my fascination as a young child, and then obviously

20:42 growing up as a teenager in the nineties, you know, every Wednesday night

20:48 at nine pm, you know, I'd be watching the expiles without fail,

20:53 and then you do a big debrief with your schoolmates the next day at school.

20:56 So that was another, you know, the pop culture component in the

21:02 nineties, and then kind of my interests ebbed and flowed over the years,

21:06 but like so many other people, it really wasn't until the New York Times

21:12 articles came out December of twenty seventeen that really, you know, picked my

21:18 interest against sparked my interest, and then obviously throughout COVID, so many of

21:22 us had so much more time at home, and where I live now in

21:26 Melbourne, Australia, we endured one of the longest lockdowns on the planet.

21:30 You know, we were locked in our homes more than any other city around

21:34 the planet. So I really during that time just became you know, there

21:40 was obviously a lot more activity happening when COVID started. You had the likes

21:45 of Louel Azondo starting to be a lot more public and do a lot more

21:51 engagements on podcasts and so on. So I just really became a sponge on

21:56 the topic and tried to learn as much as I could from as many as

22:00 I could throughout that time, and I was watching shows like UCR the Unidentified

22:07 Celebrity Review in its day, and there was a three day activism event that

22:15 I credit to lu Jamenez for really getting me off my ass and becoming a

22:22 participant in this space because it was the Big Phone Home Too that really got

22:26 me interested about well, you know, so many folks like me that are

22:33 interested in the topic take it seriously. So many of those folks that are

22:36 in the US are now being motivated and encouraged through this three day activism event

22:41 the Big Phone Home Too, to engage their elected representatives on the topic and

22:45 demand that they start taking it seriously and ask some serious questions. And I

22:51 made me think, well, what is Australia doing about UAPs? And so

22:55 then I applied that same sort of methodology and started engaging my elected representative in

23:00 Australia and the legacy media as well. So and exercising my right to information

23:06 through using the Freedom of Information Act for you, and obviously developing a friendship

23:11 with John Greenwall Jr. And learning a lot from from just what he's the

23:15 information that he's put out there over time and in his work and documenting that

23:19 in his live streams and so on. So and it's through all of those

23:22 efforts of my own that I have developed these you know, a network of

23:29 really trusted colleagues and advisors that I've relied on for information, and I've shared

23:34 information with them the likes of Australian veteran researchers, Keith Basterfield, who's done

23:40 a ton of work in the space. Bill Chalker is another one. Obviously

23:44 everyone knows Ross Coulthard, and they're you know, James Rigney who had a

23:48 hand in, uh, you know, getting the Wilson Davis Docks out to

23:51 the world. So I've been very fortunate been able to learn from the likes

23:57 of these folks and uh and and stand on the shoulders of those giants to

24:03 try and find answers to questions that I've got on the topic, which is,

24:07 well, what does Australia doing about ups? Why isn't it doing anything?

24:11 And uh and and what will what will it take to move the needle

24:15 on Australia's engagement on the topic? Absolutely I could, I could. That

24:21 was perfectly but I get a long winded answer, but got there. So,

24:29 you know, with with what we said earlier, you know, you

24:33 using or you know, looking up to people like John Greenwald, who does

24:38 a fan also a good friend, has been on the show, and uh,

24:45 I really respect what he does because you know, he doesn't play the

24:48 he doesn't what I like about Johnny's doesn't play the sides right straightforward, what

24:55 what can we what can we prove? Kind of guy, and I really

25:00 I really really respect that kind of research. So can you share with us

25:03 some of the most compelling research of the you know, Australian UFO cases that

25:10 you've encountered in in your processes so well, most of my foyer efforts in

25:19 Australia have been pertaining not so much to cases historical cases, but more the

25:26 Australian government and the Australian Department of Defense's engagement or rather lack thereof, on

25:30 the topic. So for a little bit of a history lesson for your audience,

25:36 you know, on the twenty seventh of October of twenty twenty one,

25:40 a couple of months after the OD and I have released its preliminary assessment on

25:44 UAP, there's an Australian Senator Green Senator, Senator Peter wish Wilson, who

25:48 in Australian Parliament in a Senate Estimates hearing, which is kind of like a

25:53 budget oversight hearing. He then took all of his alloted time, which was

26:02 just shy of ten minutes because he's a part participating member on the Senate Essence

26:06 Committee for Defense, Foreign Affairs and Trade. He's not a full time member,

26:10 but a he's a participating member. He used all of his time to

26:15 press the then Chief of Air Force, Air Marshall mel Hupfield on Australia's involvement

26:22 in the UAP topic. You know, is it taking UAP seriously like our

26:26 US and five eye as ally was in following the release of odinized Prelimary Assessment

26:33 on EUP, And it turned out from the Chief of Air Force Air Marshall

26:37 mel Hupfel's responses that no, you know, Australia has no reporting or recording

26:41 protocols in place. The Air Marshal quote didn't believe everything he read in the

26:48 papers, so he thought the three videos you know, Go Fast, Gimbal

26:52 and Flear one tic Tac were interesting but not compelling to him. So he

26:57 kind of just poo pooed the whole UAP issue altogether. But he was caught

27:03 completely off guard with that line of questioning at that Senate estimates. So then

27:07 fast forward to November of the following year, twenty twenty two, and obviously

27:15 there'd been more activity and movement on the UAP topic in the United States since

27:25 twenty twenty one, and so Senator Wish Wilson took it upon himself to again

27:30 ask in the Senate estimates the new than the new Chief of Air Force,

27:36 Air Marshal Robert Chipman, about well, with everything that is happening in the

27:38 United States is Australia. Has Australia had any engagement with the US Department of

27:45 Defense on UAP and has the Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Robert Chipman,

27:49 had any briefings from the United States and UAP. And the response basically

27:53 was no, same, Move along, folks, nothing to see here.

27:56 The Royal Australian Air Force is not taken seriously. The UAP is an issue

28:00 for the US. And I'm completely paraphrasing, but that was the kind of

28:03 line of the talking points, the strategic narrative that was being put out there

28:10 by the Australian Department of Defense. Now, so I had then started utilizing

28:17 in twenty twenty early twenty twenty two, I believe it was the Freedom of

28:22 Information Act to try and better understand what engagement, what were discussion, what

28:29 discussions and conversations were happening within the Australian Department of Defense on UAP following that

28:34 initial hearing in October of twenty twenty one, and I was able to secure

28:41 for release the most significant document from the Australian Department Defense on the topic of

28:45 UAP UFOs since a Chief of Airstaff brief in the mid nineties on the topic,

28:53 and essentially this document was a Chief of Air Force brief on UAP.

28:59 It basically stated that Australia has no interest in collaborating with any of its allies

29:06 on the topic. We're not taking UAP seriously, even though the United States

29:10 deems at a national security and safety of flight risk and we the Australia,

29:14 the Royal Australia Air Force determined that UAP are likely to be one of three

29:19 things you know, natural or other benign phenomena number one, Number two censor

29:26 errors or number three foreign adversarial technology or maybe our own technology that's been misidentified.

29:33 So, without having investigated the topic of UAP since nineteen ninety six and

29:38 up until that point in time, without having formally engaged the United States on

29:42 the UAP topic to requested briefing, and having not been privy to any of

29:48 the classified information that was included in the classified reports that were provided to Congress.

29:53 You know from the ODE and I'SED Preliminary Assessment on UAP and reports thereafter,

29:59 the royalistram Air Force is miraculously able to determine what UAP are likely to

30:04 be without having any of that engagement. So again wiping the hands saying there's

30:08 nothing to UAP. Now, since then, there have been a number of

30:12 other documents that have aibble to secure for the release through Foyer, essentially updates

30:18 of that Chief of Air Force brief on UAP. And fast forward to October

30:23 of last year and we now know through documents that I've been able to get

30:27 released through Foyer, that not only is the Royal Australian Air Force and Australian

30:33 Department of Defense now more engaged on the UAP topic, it's also extended its

30:37 engagement to the Defense Science and Technology Group and the Australian Space Agency. So

30:45 if there's nothing to UAP, why is the Australian Department Defense expanding its engagement

30:49 across these other services? And the big thing that really was frustrating and eye

30:59 opening was folks might remember that in May of last year, then, you

31:04 know, Director of r Doctor Sean Kirkpatrick attended NASA's public meeting on UAP with

31:11 the Independent Study Team and he was asked a question about, well, does

31:18 ARROW have any engagement across the Five Eyes, and doctor Sean Kirkpatrick revealed to

31:22 the world that he had just hosted his inaugural Five Eyes Forum on UAP,

31:27 and the five eyes for your audiences is the United States, Canada, the

31:32 UK, Australia and New Zealand. So that really peaked. My ears pricked

31:37 up when I heard that, because that told me that if there was a

31:41 Five Eyes Forum on UAP in May of twenty twenty three, then Australia you

31:47 would assume, would have been involved in those discussions. But then we find

31:52 out through questioning from Senator wish Wilson later in that year, as well as

31:57 Foyer requests for myself of that the Australian Department Offense, when asked a question

32:05 on notice from Senator wish Wilson, did Australia attend the United States briefing on

32:09 UAP. The Australian Department of Defense completely denied their attendance altogether at that Five

32:16 Eys forum. And then, and that was in July of last year,

32:22 and then Senator wish Wilson continued to pressed because he wasn't satisfied with that answer

32:25 and a lot of the questions that Senator wish Wilson has asked of the Royal

32:29 Australia Air Force Australian Department of Defense, I've actually drafted and submitted to him

32:35 for consideration because I've developed a relationship with the Senator and haven't had ongoing engagement

32:39 with him. So to wrap the story up, you know, July of

32:44 last year, Australian Department of Defense is saying no, no, we didn't

32:46 attend the Five Eys Forum on UAP. But then fast forward to December of

32:52 last year when they're getting continually pressed on well why did an Australia attend Did

32:58 Australia even even invite to attend the Five Eyes Forum? If if it did,

33:02 why didn't accept it? So at that point in time, in answering

33:07 that question, the Australian Department of Defense has done a complete one to eighty

33:10 backflip and admitted that it did attend the Five Eyes Forum on UAP. So

33:15 it said it hadn't in July, and then in December it's saying, oh,

33:20 yes, A Representative of Defense representative based in the Australian Embassy in Washington,

33:25 DC attended, So, why the complete lack of transparency back in July,

33:30 Why the deception potentially why is this the ghosting on the UAP topic from

33:37 Australia site. And it's just left more questions in my mind as to why

33:44 Australia has been so reluctant to enter the conversation on the UAP topic when it's

33:52 formally been welcomed with open arms by the US Department of Defense by way of

33:59 five EYS forum on u AP last year and now ongoing engagement with RA going

34:02 forward. So the Australian Department Fence is playing a very strange game on its

34:08 interest and engagement on the topic. And that and that sadly continues. That's

34:15 that that's wild though, that that that they would because that's so clear.

34:22 It's so it's so it's like a spit in the face, right when you

34:25 find something like that, because either one of what you know, there's only

34:30 a couple of different things that could be happening there. It's either straight up

34:36 deception or it's incompetence, right, I totally agree with you. And I

34:43 think it's I think it could be a combination of both. Yeah, both

34:46 very dangerous and both need to be addressed. So regardless right, regardless of

34:54 anything they should be being it's it just it blows my mind. And is

35:00 it going to take, you know, is it going to take how much

35:02 more pressure you know from the public. Is it going to take in your

35:09 country for them to start taking this seriously? And that doesn't just go for

35:14 Australia. I'm not picking on Australia. This goes for a lot of places,

35:17 totally well and and an interesting thing. So this happened only a week

35:22 ago that you know, historic discussions on UAP took place in European Parliament.

35:29 Uh. There's a gentleman who chaired the the hearing, friend Francisco Gulierro.

35:36 I think his name is, I can't pronounce his name, his surname,

35:37 but so he had discussions on UAP in New European Parliament and there was representative

35:46 from the SCU. They're asking questions. Ryan Graves uh tuned in remotely to

35:52 weigh in and answer questions that the committee had. You had Peter Scayfish of

35:58 the Soul Foundation there as well, and I found it interesting. You know,

36:01 I've been following the Sole Foundation quite closely because one of the part of

36:07 their mission is to provide policy guidance and policy recommendations to other nations governments,

36:12 so not just the United States, but other nations around the world, to

36:15 assist them with policy implementation, governments to take the topic of UAP seriously.

36:21 And the question that Peter Scaifish asked of the chair Francisco was, you know,

36:27 what can the SOLE Foundation do to assist with policy guidance, recommendations,

36:34 implementation and basically what will it take for the EU to start taking the topic

36:39 seriously? And the response that Francisco gave was political will. At the moment,

36:45 there's a lack of political will, and that is very true of Australia.

36:49 You know, there is a complete lack of political will and motivation to

36:52 advance or elevate the conversation on this topic. There's only one senator still in

36:59 Australia, Wish Wilson, who's taking this topic seriously. So unfortunately we don't

37:02 have this point of critical mass in Australia that there is in the United States

37:07 at the moment, where you've got the likes of Burchette, you know Anna,

37:10 Paulina Luna, You've got you know, Jared Moskovic, You've got Burlison,

37:15 You've got Andy Ogle's, all of these guys that are pushing hard for

37:20 greater transparency on UAP. We're not there yet in Australia and the EU is

37:24 not there either. But if the EU starts taking this topic seriously and starts

37:30 to implement some policies around recording and reporting for pilots, then I think you're

37:37 going to find that the likes of the UK, Australia and New Zealand are

37:40 eventually going to fall into line. And yeah, and it'll reach a point

37:45 of critical mass where they have to enter into the conversation and be more engaged

37:49 on it. What we had were to talk Yester, not yesterday, a

37:55 couple of days ago live, and we were talking about Israel and these three

38:05 Red halfers, right, and so, uh, they're getting ready to build

38:08 the Third Temple in Jerusalem, which a lot of Catholics and Jewish people of

38:17 Jewish faith think that will usher in Uh like it's a it's a ah,

38:24 it's a precursor to the return of the Messiah. I know, I'm gonna

38:30 really like hit you hit, just hit you deep right now. But do

38:35 you think that when I talk about the return of a Messiah right, could

38:44 that I'm thinking about it looking through a lens of today's uh, like a

38:52 lens of today right? What ancient people may have sat as gaw or divine?

39:00 You know, we probably call extraterrestrial alien and that's what I'm under the

39:06 guys as. So when I hear something like return of the Messiah, I

39:10 think return of an extraterrestrial Do you think that all these dominoes are starting to

39:17 fall since twenty seventeen in some weird way? Do you think that the Five

39:23 Eyes or whoever is behind mythical groups like the MJ twelve right like in the

39:34 United States, whoever's running this behind the scenes? Do you think they know

39:38 something might be coming? Oh? Man, that's a big question. That's

39:42 a load of one. Well. Look, I mean, I'm I'm an

39:46 atheist, but I'm very agnostic on the UAP topic. I think there is

39:51 certainly a there there. What that there there is? I don't know.

39:55 I mean, we know that there is a smallgasbord of options on the menu

40:00 that it could be the et hypothesis is one that's probably the most fantastical and

40:05 exciting one for most folks, or NHI is used more broadly. I mean

40:09 interdimensional has been talked about future human, extra temporal, ultra terrestrial. I

40:15 mean, you've got all of these things that UAP could be in addition to

40:22 natural phenomena, which and misidentification obviously planet venus medias. I mean, that's

40:30 a big part of sightings. A lot of it is misidentification, you know,

40:35 a lot of it is probably top secret technology that is in the holdings

40:39 of the US government as well, and I'm sure has been in the holdings

40:43 of other governments around the world too, So misidentification is and as well as

40:50 you know, folks that choose to take advantage of gullible minds and those that

40:54 are susceptible to suspending their disbelief and hoaxing sidings and those I think those,

41:00 unfortunately will always be part of this conversation and other conversations, but misidentification and

41:06 hoaxes will always play a big part. But that's not what we're interested in.

41:08 We're interested in the one to three percent of cases that are truly anomalist

41:14 that ARO has not yet gotten to the bottom of and the three percent of

41:17 cases that the Royal Astroland Air Force said it could not offer a ready explanation

41:22 for before it washed its hands of the topic and said we can't we're not

41:28 doing any more investigative work on this topic because we can't identify any other compelling

41:32 of scientific reason to continue to vote resources. But my pushback to the Royal

41:37 Astrained Air Force is, well, if you can't fully identify all of the

41:42 cases, if there's three percent that are unresolved, and some will be due

41:45 to a lack of data and so on, but isn't that enough of a

41:47 compelling reason to get to the bottom of those three percent of I mean,

41:52 look how many cases that were in Project blue Book that went unresolved. It

41:55 was about seven hundred and fifty something cases that were unresolved. Because at the

42:00 end of the day, it only takes one to be something that is completely

42:06 you know, exotic non prosaic if UAP are one of those things that I

42:10 mentioned before. So as to what UAP are, again, it's it's anyone's

42:16 guess. I certainly think it could be one or a number of those things.

42:22 Certainly, that's what we're hearing from folks the likes of David Grush and

42:27 others. You know, Carl Nell. You know, David Grush said he

42:32 undertook interviews with forty primary witnesses over four years as part of in his official

42:37 capacity. You know, when when are we going to hear from other firsthand

42:44 witnesses or whistleblowers that can support the claims that David Grush has made before Congress

42:51 under oath? And I think that, you know, we've heard rumors of

42:54 there being other witnesses, firsthand witnesses and whistleblowers that may be coming forward,

43:00 but we're not there yet. So I think time will hopefully tell that we

43:05 have more cooperative information or even evidence that will back up the claims of David

43:12 Grush and hopefully support what he has said thus far. But to go back

43:16 to your question, are we being prepped for something that's a tough one?

43:22 I mean you've heard from folks like, you know, former CIA guy John

43:30 Ramirez, You've heard from UK Intelligence, UK Intelligence Frank Melbourne. Ross Coulthard

43:38 has mentioned it once or twice as well, that there's you know, I

43:43 think Angelie, who you've had on your show recently, there is your rumors

43:45 of twenty twenty seven being a fairly significant I alluded to it as well.

43:52 Yeah, significant years. So is there something that some folks know that is

43:58 coming down the Who knows, but that's what people are saying, right,

44:04 think about it. The we throw we have a we have the hubble,

44:12 right, we have it up there, and no matter what, we were

44:15 always going to put a better one up there. But the drastic capability change

44:22 and and and how drastic it was was. I mean there, they took

44:29 so many risks getting that telescope up there. So many things could have went

44:34 wrong where billions of dollars would have just been blown away and up in space.

44:40 You don't do that for no reason. And and and I know everyone's

44:45 like, well, you do it because you want to find out about the

44:47 universe. Yeah, you also do that through defense contracting, right, because

44:53 you're scientists. Aren't the only ones who are going to be using that telescope.

44:59 And I think I think that maybe maybe they've seen, like an asteroid,

45:07 how we can predict when it may arrive and when it will cross paths

45:13 with us through its trajectory, YadA, YadA, YadA, and the I

45:16 think they may have noticed something with the Hubble couldn't make it out all the

45:21 way, designed the James web to be able to do so and put it

45:30 up there. Now they have confirmed that this thing is intelligently controlled and that

45:37 it's on its way this way. And it's not just the you know,

45:40 twenty diameter thing. This thing's you know, probably the size of Texas.

45:52 That's my that's my guess. I'm just playing around with some theory here.

45:57 But and that is what is launch this real? Because everybody from Joe Rogan

46:02 to the average person is asking why now, hm, why? Now?

46:12 Look, it's an interesting point and it kind of have you ever seen that

46:15 movie Deep Impact with so you know they talk about Ellie el E extension level

46:22 event and that in the film there were people within the government and the defense

46:29 that knew something was coming this massive asteroid. So, you know, is

46:35 it plausible that you know, Hubble and James Webb have picked something up in

46:40 distant space that is anomalous or I mean, look, look what happened only

46:45 in the last couple of days. There is a gentleman on YouTube. He

46:50 goes by his channel, I think he goes by Professor Simon And yeah,

46:58 so he's had someone from within SETI, and I've only retelling what he said

47:02 on his channel, but he's had a source reach out to him and say

47:07 that SETI has picked up some pretty compelling new wow signals that you know,

47:17 Doppler shift data, blueshift, red shift. And you can look at his

47:23 channel, Professor Simon if you want to watch these two videos he's done where

47:27 it talks about it, Yeah, linked them in the description below. It's

47:30 a really fascinating, you know, fascinating interesting what he's talking about, because

47:35 he's saying that give us Yeah, so he's basically saying that the his source

47:42 is now telling him. Now, whether it's BS, who knows. But

47:45 you know, I I respect Professor Simon's content and the due diligence that he

47:51 does. He puts out some really interesting stuff. He's rather skeptical, Yeah,

47:57 he certainly is. He's he's very but you know, it was very

48:00 interesting to see it come from him that he's saying sources, sources told him

48:05 that SETI has picked up some pretty significant, compelling new signals that from these

48:10 signals, you know, some pretty interesting data can be extrapolated, and he

48:17 talks about images can be extrapolated, so you know, it's it's obviously the

48:23 beginning of the beginning on this kind of bit of news, but you know,

48:30 it'll be very interesting to learn how that story progresses in advances. Is

48:35 there something that is known about within the halls of SETI or within NASA that

48:44 you know man the James Webb and its predecessor of the Hubble. Is there

48:50 something that folks within the scientific and you know, community and government know that

48:59 they're prepared airing to divulge to the general populace. If so, that would

49:07 be a pretty pretty momentous and it begs the question, has there been this

49:13 progressive drip feed of information to move to some form of disclosure on something you

49:22 know? And has that been happening since twenty seventeen. Time will hopefully tell,

49:27 But I mean, what an exciting time to be alive. I mean,

49:30 you know, I'm forty five years of age. My parents they lived

49:34 through only one UAP hearing in their lifetime. That was in the in the

49:39 in the in the fifties or the sixties or maybe you know, one or

49:44 two, and we've had three in only the last three years. So the

49:49 conversation on this topic is only getting stronger. And like you know, a

49:54 snow, a small ball of snow that starts rolling down the hill, It's

50:00 gathering speed, mass, size, traction. It's only going to get bigger.

50:05 And I don't think you know, there's any stopping this, uh this

50:08 train now on this on this topic. Yeah, no, I I completely

50:15 completely agree. I just I often wonder, right, just because it's it's

50:24 the drip feed thing, and and it seems like not only in pop culture

50:35 but in your everyday life, right, Uh, it's it seems that uh,

50:39 this this notion of us not being alone is I mean, look at

50:45 the Vatican. The Vatican came out and said they would baptize a non human

50:51 intelligence. I mean, the Vatican is also issued statements on uh they've embraced

50:58 the possibility of there being an h yeah, absolutely, and that that that

51:02 we're all God's God quote unquote God's children. So I just I don't think

51:10 it's coincidence, right, It just it doesn't feel coincidental. And what you

51:17 know, Grush talks about a deal, right, a deal that was struck

51:22 maybe potentially who knows, Now if we look at that and we extrapolate maybe

51:32 not a deal that was handshake deal. But could it could it have been

51:37 more like a I don't really know how to describe it, but like an

51:45 unspoken thing. And it's an unspoken thing that I mean, the governments know

51:51 that that that scout ships are here, and they have been since the forties,

51:55 and it's all been you know, like it's all been in lead up

52:02 to this, that this event that's about to take place, like everything timing

52:09 wise, you know, and that brings into the future human hypothesis. How

52:13 did they know that that we were going to get here this to the atomic

52:15 age? And why would they be on course? You know, Uh,

52:19 I didn't have something to do with advance AI and and unlocking AI. I

52:25 just there's so many possibilities that that that that start laying the groundwork. Could

52:32 there be some sort of eternal uh hype pop. Have you seen the marvel

52:37 the marvels eternals? I haven't known, I haven't I haven't watched. So

52:42 could there have been people here that blend in and are just not of this

52:49 earth and they stay out of everything, but they're watchers and they report back

52:54 you know, yeah, exactly, zoo hypods and then the Black Mads that

53:00 so there are a lot of things that I think point to. I think

53:07 in your lifetime, should you live alone? Should we all both live long,

53:13 healthy lives. I think in our lifetime will absolutely absolutely see contact.

53:20 I'm not talking ladies and gentlemen, we are not alone. I'm talking full

53:25 on contact. Yeah. And I think the public's been being braced for it.

53:32 Yeah. Well, I mean I've I've said, you know, there

53:36 are two things that I would love to see before I pass off this mortal

53:40 coil of ours. That's one, uh, you know, humans to land

53:44 on Mars, and two for us to have a definitive, definitive answer,

53:50 you know, irrefutable evidence or conclusion as to what UAP are. Uh.

53:55 And you know, again, with everything that's been happening with in the last

54:00 seven years, I mean it feels like everything's I mean, I've said this

54:05 so many times. It's for those of us that are engaged on the topic

54:08 and take it seriously and find it truly intriguing and fascinating and want want answers.

54:15 It's almost like a full time job just to stay up to date with

54:19 what's going on, which is a complete that's that's a far cry from where

54:23 we were, you know, twenty thirty years ago, folks that you know,

54:29 we're interesting. I mean back then you'd only really converse on the UFO

54:34 topic at conferences or in chat rooms that happened it's exciting or a case or

54:42 something. So you know, we live in I mean, we're privileged to

54:45 live in a day and age where information happens at the speed of a tweet.

54:51 You know, you and I can have these conversations from afar in real

54:53 time and engage with other people that are that take the topic seriously, so

55:00 you know you and and that's why I think the UFO community is that a

55:05 is in a unique position where the legacy media is now done and dusted in

55:09 the sense that they're always trying to play catch up with what the late breaking

55:15 news on is on the UFO topic. It's folks in this community that are

55:21 you know, the John Greenwalls that are doing the Foyer requests. Uh,

55:23 you know other folks that you're doing their researcher have sources Ross Coultart and others.

55:30 They're putting this information out first before it even hits the legacy media.

55:35 So I think you're going to you probably start to see more and more revelations

55:42 come through boutique media, not just social media, but the small media outlets

55:47 as well that yeah and use Nation. To their credit, they've kind of

55:52 taken the bull by the horns and led the charge and reporting the UAP topic,

55:58 and they're leaving everyone else behind in the dust that don't want to touch

56:00 it still, which is so so bizarre to me that you would think that

56:07 if you're if you're the legacy media like your the A, b C or

56:15 NBC or you know, one of the big stations in the States and one

56:19 of the big papers, that you got to be the amount of the amount

56:22 of public interest there is on this topic of you O, p UFO,

56:24 it would be a no brainer from a ratings perspective, So why would you?

56:31 Why would you not cover it? You know? So I have contacts.

56:37 So I did an internship at the news and I have many contacts there

56:45 at a news channel in Boston, and I pitched literally straight up pitched a

56:52 segment like once a week, nothing big, just to because it's a big

57:04 channel in Boston. UH in New England people watch it and we have a

57:07 lot of eyes on it. Given the data of UH News UH seven in

57:15 Australia. M h. Given some given even a little bit of money and

57:22 and and and and a platform, and the people will come. Right.

57:30 They may not be watching on live on television, but you know your YouTube

57:34 channels are gonna are gonna bump up, your online presidents are gonna come up,

57:38 right and Boston, Uh, you know, it's it's not New York

57:44 City, right, there's not there's not stabbings every other night, right,

57:47 It's it's not like that. So it's not like we have a ton of

57:52 news or or fun engaging stories that that the public has. And I just

57:57 think like and and zero no answer, laughed loud, basically zero answer,

58:05 you know. And this is from you know, from someone that that has

58:09 given them stories, right, has worked for free in their building, and

58:15 they wouldn't even consider not even consider it. So it's weird. And that's

58:22 I mean, that's my big gripe with the Australian legacy media. I mean,

58:25 we've got you know, there are a number of you know, breakfast

58:30 shows here. You know, there's Australian version of the Today Show. There's

58:35 a breakfast show on the seven network called Sunrise and you know, to their

58:38 credit, whenever something significant happens in the US on this topic, like when

58:44 David Grash came forward. You know, the the the I C i G

58:51 had its skiff meeting with with members of the Congressional Oversight Committee. You know,

58:57 they cover those stories, but it's just copy and paste journalism. They

59:01 just spit out the same stuff that's been talked about in the United States.

59:06 They won't exercise a shred of journalistic due diligence on this topic and ask the

59:10 question, well, hang on, our USLI is taking this topic very seriously

59:15 from a national security threat and safety a flight risk perspective. What's Australia doing

59:19 about EEPs and why aren't they asking, you know, those that we elect

59:22 into positions of leadership in Australia and those in positions of authority in the Australia

59:27 Department Offense, why aren't those media outlets that are privileged and that they have

59:32 a unique platform that reaches a huge audience they're not even bothering to ask questions

59:37 close to home about Well, why isn't Australia taking this topic seriously? And

59:43 I've I've tried to engage the legacy media of a number of times. I've

59:47 called them out when they have not. I mean a case in point,

59:52 you know the Today Show, I think it was only a couple months back

59:58 they had I mean, for God's like, they had Australia's The Bachelor from

1:00:01 Australia's version of The Bachelor who happens to be an astrophysicist. But they had

1:00:06 the Bachelor come on and offer some commentary about David Graush and the you know,

1:00:12 just the optics around that. I mean that there are there are plenty

1:00:15 of other folks in Australia that take this topic seriesly like they played the music.

1:00:22 Well, thankfully they didn't in that segment, but that's my other gude.

1:00:24 They always played the Bloody X Files theme. They'll take any chance they

1:00:29 can to take the piss out of the topic and just throw up the ridicule

1:00:32 and stigma card and they just treat it with such derision, derision and derision

1:00:37 and and uh, you know, lack of lack of respect. They just

1:00:42 throw throw shit on the topic the whole time. It's just so frustrating.

1:00:45 That's one thing I do love about Gorbell because the I forget the last channel

1:00:52 that did it do them, but one of the last channels Uh, they

1:00:59 hit them. It was him and Nick Pope and uh, they they played

1:01:04 the X Files theme. You you see him come on and he's just like

1:01:09 you can see that look like because they you know, like he you know,

1:01:15 he's like, I'll you know, he's pretty serious about it, and

1:01:20 like he's adamant that they don't use that kind of stuff if he's on the

1:01:22 show. So I'm sure like you know, he talked about it on Weaponis

1:01:29 and uh, they played it and he just came on and just like started

1:01:34 tearing into them because they think they can get away with it, and it's

1:01:39 we're passed that point. We're passed the point. We passed the point in

1:01:43 no return where you you know, this topic is being taken seriously, uh

1:01:49 as a national security flat and threaten and safety flighters in the United States.

1:01:53 Other countries have started starting to take it seriously. Canada has its you know,

1:01:58 Sky Project Canada. We know that Brazil has had you know, a

1:02:04 hearing, was it last year or the year before. You've had obviously the

1:02:07 debarcle of things happening in Mexico, you know, everything outside of the I

1:02:13 think the Nasca mummies being presented was of significance and importance. You've now got

1:02:19 discussions being had within European Parliament, so there are more and more countries around

1:02:24 the world that are taking this topic seriously from a government perspective, and that's

1:02:30 why Australia needs to get its finger out of its ass like the UK and

1:02:35 New Zealand and do the same. Before I move on to civilian one last

1:02:44 thing, I mean, especially with the military. I mean, this is

1:02:50 a good segue. Actually, do you think it necessarily has to be a

1:02:54 government disclosure or could citizen science do some sort of disclosure and have it be

1:03:04 meaningful from the government. I mean always, I've always said that I think

1:03:09 we'll probably learn more from the endeavors and efforts of the folks like the Galileo

1:03:15 Project and James Webb then we will. I mean that's you know, NASA

1:03:22 obviously, but the scientific community certainly, the likes of the Galileo Project.

1:03:29 I think we're more likely to get information and data that's of value and significance

1:03:36 from those efforts than we are the government, the United States government and other

1:03:40 governments, because they you know, I mean the problem with the government's history

1:03:49 on this topic is, you know, this topic has been shrouded in secrecy

1:03:53 for more than eighty years. And unfortunately secrecy and the excessive overclassific cation that

1:04:00 has plagued this topic that's led to the secrecy. Secrecy breeds suspicion, and

1:04:08 suspicion breeds distrust mistrust, so folks don't trust their government because on this particular

1:04:15 topic, because of the history of deception, misinformation, disinformation. I mean,

1:04:23 look at Project Blue Book is designed to debunk the whole topic and just

1:04:27 throw cold water over it. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that will

1:04:32 get more information that helps, you know, move the needle along and open

1:04:42 source it to invite the broader academic and scientific communities who largely are still being

1:04:47 pretty silent on the topic, even though there's more in those spaces that are

1:04:51 taking topics seriously. But I do think it's the likes of the Galileo Project

1:04:56 and others like you know, the Sole Foundation that are pushing for greater advocacy

1:05:01 across other other other nations and academic scientific community to to take a top to

1:05:09 take it seriously. Uh. And that's why I applaud you know RV.

1:05:12 Lobe for his efforts. You know, people put a little lot of shit

1:05:15 on him, but I think he's that's why, that's why he named it

1:05:21 the Galileo Project, precisely exactly right. If if you know, folks didn't

1:05:28 want to look through the telescope, and you know, if if and that's

1:05:32 RV Lobe has like Galileo has the curiosity to look through the telescope and question

1:05:39 the narrative that has long been held. You know where the Earth the Sun

1:05:44 doesn't revolve around, uh, you know the Earth, that's the other way

1:05:48 around. And we wouldn't know that unless Galileo looked through the through the telescope.

1:05:53 And so that's why I think more folks in the scientific and academic community

1:05:58 need to be have the current and be brave enough to take that leap and

1:06:01 look through the telescope to uh, to to examine this this this this phenomenon.

1:06:10 I couldn't agree more. And stall Foundation I just confirmed that, uh,

1:06:15 Season one will be wrapping up with Danny she Uh, you know,

1:06:23 so you're in the you're in the Yeah, well it starts with you,

1:06:29 it starts with you and it ends with Danny. She. So, I

1:06:33 mean, it's come on, I caldn't ask for better. Uh and timber

1:06:38 Chip will be there, uh in that that list. So you know it's

1:06:45 gonna be really fun. But so somebody asked, what is what would you

1:06:51 consider because I think every country, you know, if it's if it's the

1:06:57 UFO documentary and they're like honing in on the biggest case of a country,

1:07:03 it's always called the roswell of this country. Yea, yeah, what is

1:07:09 the ras? I know the answer to it. But what would what would

1:07:14 you consider it to be the biggest, most well known case the roswell of

1:07:21 Australia. Yeah, so I would say the most renowned unresolved cold case in

1:07:31 Australian history is the Westeral Flying Saucer incident of the sixth of April nineteen sixty

1:07:39 six. And you know, I didn't know a lot about I mean,

1:07:43 I live in Melbourne, which is you know, west All is about forty

1:07:46 five minutes drive from me, and you know I knew of the west All

1:07:53 incident growing up and obviously taking an interest in this topic, but I didn't

1:07:59 really know a whole lot more about it. And it was until someone I

1:08:02 think through throughout COVID suggested to me that I should I should look into I

1:08:09 should research the west All Incident, and so I thought, okay, well

1:08:12 I'll do that, and so I reached out to dewn by my name of

1:08:15 Shane Ryan, who did a wonderful documentary on the west All Incident a good

1:08:20 number of years ago. Now it was called west All sixty six, a

1:08:24 suburban UFO Mystery, and West Hall's been covered in James Fox's The Phenomenon of

1:08:30 Twenty twenty. Ross Coultart has covered it as well on one of his documentaries

1:08:33 for seven Spotlight. And so I was informed by Shane Ryan of an annual

1:08:43 reunion event that a small number of the primary witnesses from the west All Incident

1:08:48 attend at a place called the Grange, which is about just shy of a

1:08:54 mile south of Westall High School. And these primary witnesses they get together once

1:09:00 a year around about the time of the anniversary, you know, around April

1:09:03 each year, and they just convene and they recount their recollections from that day

1:09:11 and they share their memories and they you know, and there are members of

1:09:15 the general public that often go to that event and just ask questions of these

1:09:18 primary witnesses. And that's exactly what I did so Shane Ryan told me about

1:09:23 this event, and I decided to go along, and I thought, oh,

1:09:27 maybe I'll just take my iPhone with me to see if anyone would be

1:09:30 interested and willing to go on camera to answer a couple questions. And so

1:09:34 I ended up meeting around about five primary witnesses from that observed what they said

1:09:45 resembled a flying saucer on the sixth of April nineteen sixty six, and all

1:09:49 of them were very generous and gracious at their time and prepared to go on

1:09:54 camera. And I just got reams and reams of footage on my iPhone just

1:10:00 asking them questions that I had about the West Hall case. So much so

1:10:04 that I was able to put together a documentary video goes Shy of ninety minutes

1:10:11 that captures a lot of the commentary of their testimony long form format, and

1:10:15 I turned it into a documentary on the West on these west All witnesses.

1:10:20 And it's not designed, as you know, to be anything. I mean,

1:10:29 I still say west All sixty six by Shane Ryan and the phenomenon a

1:10:33 great starting point for folks that want to learn about the Western incident. But

1:10:36 I really intended to be a companion piece to those documentaries, so that people

1:10:42 wanted to hear from some of these witnesses directly in long form format, they

1:10:46 could. And the west All incident is such an intriguing one because fifty eight

1:10:50 years later, you know, we're coming up on the fifty eighth anniversary in

1:10:57 less than a week's time, and it's fifty eight years later, there's still

1:11:02 been no formal or official explanation from the Australian Government or the Australian Department Defense

1:11:11 as to what it was that was observed in the skies above west All High

1:11:15 School on the sixth of April nineteen sixty six, and for as a quick

1:11:18 summary for those that don't know about the case, approximately ten to twenty in

1:11:23 the morning on the last day of term on the sixth of April nineteen sixty

1:11:27 six, several hundred school children. It was a school of about five hundred

1:11:31 students and several hundred and about half the school these school students saw It's a

1:11:39 bit ambiguous. Some saw one, some saw up to three what they described

1:11:45 and reported as being a flying saucer in shape in the sky above their school,

1:11:49 west All High School, and that one of these flying sources moved to

1:11:57 a densely wooded area south of the school called the Grange, where a lot

1:12:01 of the high school students would do their cross country runs. And one of

1:12:05 these flying sources was reported or alleged to have descended to the grange or even

1:12:11 make contact with land at the grange. And you have then obviously reports of

1:12:17 military on site before the end of the school day, you know, locking

1:12:25 down, closing down the school, putting up no entry or barricade so that

1:12:32 the grange area couldn't be accessed, and students were told to shut up about

1:12:38 it. They were told that you have nothing to see here. Move along,

1:12:41 folks, you didn't see anything. You're not to talk about this,

1:12:43 and that was reiterated by their their headmaster. They were all convened for a

1:12:47 special assembly later that day saying, you know, don't you're not to talk

1:12:53 about anything that you've seen today. It didn't happen. No one's to talk

1:12:57 about it. And one of the teachers that also observed something in the sky

1:13:02 above Westall High School that day, his name was Andrew Greenwood. He was

1:13:08 twenty years of age on the day. He was a science teacher and he

1:13:12 received a knock on the door, either later that evening or in the evenings

1:13:16 shortly thereafter, and he had uniformed members of the military, what he assumed

1:13:25 may have been the Air Force knock on his door, unannounced, unsolicited and

1:13:30 say you're not to speak of the West what you saw at West Hall,

1:13:33 because if you do, it will be very easy for folks to reach the

1:13:38 conclusion that you were drunk on the day of the sixth of April nineteen sixty

1:13:42 six, and your job will be in jeopardy. So if it was nothing,

1:13:47 if it was a nothing burger, if it was purely prosage, why

1:13:50 were so many folks told to shut up about it? And that's the big

1:13:56 frustration. I'd just say, that's the big frustration that I got from these

1:14:00 primory witnesses that I interviewed, is that they obviously want to know what it

1:14:03 was, they saw, what's responsible of what they saw in the skies above

1:14:08 their their school. But what what really frustrates in the most is they were

1:14:13 told to shut up, shut up about it, and they were told to

1:14:15 stay silent. And I think that's what frustrates them the most. I can't

1:14:20 I don't remember, I don't know if I'm confusing this with the other,

1:14:26 the aerial school signing in Zimbabwe. Well, yeah, yeah, for this

1:14:30 particular detail, I don't know if I'm about to if I'm about yes,

1:14:39 I don't know if I'm about to confuse the two. But is it was

1:14:44 it this case where they denied that the military went in, who denied the

1:14:51 military where they denied that they were ever there? And then well the militaries.

1:14:58 The militaries never provided any comment, any form of comment on the west

1:15:02 All incident. And this is despite the fact that there was rumored to be,

1:15:08 or more than rumored to be, a very comprehensive report that was done

1:15:12 on the west All incident by the now defunct Department of Supply. So there

1:15:16 was an official report that was done on the Westill incident. But fifty eight

1:15:19 years later, that report has never seen the light of day and it has

1:15:24 never been released to the general public. Now either it's been destroyed or it's

1:15:28 been locked away somewhere and it's never been found. And that's why I say

1:15:33 the Australian Department Offense in the Australian Government has never formally commented on the west

1:15:39 All incident and never provided any explanation through documentary evidence or other what could be

1:15:45 attributed to the Western They haven't even acknowledged the west All incident to a significant

1:15:50 degree. So the witnesses say all the witness to say the military locked the

1:15:58 school down, Well not all of the I mean, fifty eight years ago.

1:16:01 You obviously your memory fades. I mean, I can't remember what I

1:16:04 did yesterday most of the time. But you know, a lot of a

1:16:08 lot of it's not unreasonable think that a lot of folks would not remember,

1:16:14 you know. So the primary witnesses that I interviewed at this reunion event last

1:16:19 year, they were they were twelve thirteen years of age, and one of

1:16:25 them was sixteen years of age who was actually a market gardener. He wasn't

1:16:29 actually at the school. So you had not just school students and teachers,

1:16:31 but you had other members of the public see something as well that weren't on

1:16:34 the grounds of the school that day. And you know, these teenagers so

1:16:40 and a teacher as well. So obviously for folks that were children that were

1:16:44 younger on the day, they may not remember or memory their memory phase over

1:16:48 time. And I certainly, you know, I know from my experience,

1:16:54 my memories of when I was six or seven years of age. I can't

1:16:57 remember nearly anything, so it's not unreasonable thing that memory does fade over time.

1:17:01 Some students don't remember if they saw military. Some say they didn't see

1:17:06 military, but then there were others that say they absolutely saw military come in

1:17:11 jeeps and trucks, and they kind of cordoned off the Grange area, and

1:17:15 there were reports of you know, military with Geiger counters, you know,

1:17:24 kind of metal detective type instruments, and even soil samples being taken from the

1:17:30 grange area where you know, a flying sauc or if it was that we

1:17:35 made contact with the ground and it was you know, it was something retrieved.

1:17:43 Who knows. You know that there is the witness testimony around something having

1:17:48 landed at the Grange is inconclusive, you know, it's it's it's been questioned

1:17:54 and challenged, but it's certainly clear that something was seen in the sky above

1:18:01 west All High School on the sixth of April nineteen sixty six. And there

1:18:04 have been a number of prosaic explanations that have been put forward, and I

1:18:08 cover one of them in my documentary. It was actually Keith Basterfield the Australia

1:18:13 researcher that put forward a hypothesis that maybe what was seen in the high school

1:18:16 above in the skies above west All High School was called a high bow,

1:18:21 a high altitude balloon and there was in fact Project high Bow that operated several

1:18:30 hundred kilometers northwest of Melbourne in a place called Mildura where they had balloon launchings

1:18:35 with scientific instruments attached to them that were designed to detect radioactive remnants from nuclear

1:18:43 atomic testing in the South Pacific in Pacific region. So a hypothesis that was

1:18:47 put forward was, well, could it have been a high Bow that was

1:18:53 completely off course and descended or crashed south of west All High School? And

1:18:59 you know the government wanted to cover that up because if there was, if

1:19:02 it hit the press or the media, that a top secret project that was

1:19:06 designed to do this scientific exactly, yeah it was, And what if it

1:19:15 had crashed or come down on the high school and was responsible for damaging property

1:19:19 or killing killing children that would be a complete PR disaster. And that's another

1:19:25 hypothesis that has been put forward that it maybe was a PR potential PR disaster

1:19:30 that they covered up for that reason. But then you speak to and you

1:19:33 look in the eyes of these primary witnesses who told me extremely compellingly that they

1:19:41 saw what they saw was not a balloon. They knew what that they knew

1:19:45 what hot air balloons looked like. High boal is obviously different to a hot

1:19:49 air balloon, but they definitively say it was not a balloon that came down,

1:19:57 yeah, and was seen in the sky above west on the day.

1:20:00 So it it's a really really fascinating case and it's one that frustrates so many

1:20:05 researchers like myself and Keith and Bill Chalker and and Ross and Shane Ryan,

1:20:10 because there's just not one shred of documentary evidence that has been made available or

1:20:15 seen the light of day that can get us any any closers to concluding what

1:20:21 Westall was right. Yeah, like the like in comparison to like say the

1:20:28 renderous from Forest incident, where there's like a plethora of of documentation to say

1:20:35 yeah, exactly, yeah, and so so the children also they did report

1:20:43 beings that day, So that's so that's where you might be confusing it with

1:20:48 the aerial school sighting in Zimbabwe. So in them, yes, the one

1:20:55 where they're they're feeding that they looked like they were phasing in and out of

1:20:58 reality. I'm not I can't speak to that, but I know that what

1:21:04 is what is similar across west All and the Aerial School Signing is that it

1:21:10 was a mass siting incident. Was a mass sighting event involved children, and

1:21:17 the difference being at the Aerial school siding, a number of the children reported

1:21:24 seeing beings and having some form of contact with beings, whereas West All there

1:21:30 is not any reports that I'm aware of that are let's say, credible that

1:21:40 talk about beings being Yeah, no, You're absolutely right. Now did it

1:21:44 did? So? Now I'm now I can in Manhattan differentiating them the two

1:21:50 always like I blend, I tend to blend details and easy to do across

1:21:57 those two cases. Yeah. Yeah, But but it goes to show you

1:22:00 that because in one of my questions to you is, uh, what was

1:22:08 it? Uh? God? I you now, I can't find it,

1:22:15 of course, And I mean that's an intriguing I don't know a whole lot

1:22:17 about the Aerial School starting, I mean, other than just what I've seen

1:22:20 with a documentary that was put out a year or two ago. And I

1:22:25 know, doctor doctor John Mack researched it obviously, but yeah, that's a

1:22:30 that's another fascinating case. But but Western is the one at home that I've

1:22:33 been doing my homework on, like looking ahead, you know, Uh,

1:22:39 this is a you know, what I was going to ask is what developments

1:22:43 are trends do you anticipate but or or have you seen in the UFO field?

1:22:49 And uh, this is one that we see is is uh sighting's a

1:22:56 large number of children citing uh some thing and being given a message of some

1:23:02 sort, you know, technologically, and this is that that trend goes through

1:23:09 a lot of alien abduction scenarios. Now again, I am I'm kind of

1:23:15 a nuts and boltz guy myself, but what was your tique on the abduction

1:23:21 phenomenon? And yeah, look it's it's not one that I have ever entered

1:23:30 into the forayon. I've always kind of, like yourself, been very nuts

1:23:35 and bolts and trying to My focus always have been at engaging government and obviously

1:23:43 the Department of Defense. I mean, I am intrigued that I am fascinated

1:23:46 by folks that have approached me in person and online that have felt comfortable to

1:23:54 share with me, you know, something that that happened to them, or

1:23:59 at a minimum, that they believed happened to them. And it's not my

1:24:02 It would be shameful of me to judge someone based on, you know,

1:24:08 what they have decided to share with me and have the courage to share with

1:24:13 me because of the ridicule and stigma that's associated with this topic. I don't

1:24:16 necessarily have to believe what they're telling me to take them seriously or you know,

1:24:27 entertain it as a really interesting account or experience. You know, I

1:24:32 am constantly you know, I appreciate the fact that people do feel comfortable in

1:24:42 reaching out to me and share with me their story. And there have been

1:24:45 instances where folks have and I've said, look, where's There's Unfortunately not a

1:24:49 whole lot I can do to help further your investigator of efforts or the conversation

1:24:58 because it's not my wheelhouse. However, I do know some people that may

1:25:00 be very interested to take a formal record of your account. And you know,

1:25:06 I've referred a couple of folks to gentlemen. I've Roger Stankovic, who

1:25:11 is the Australian New Zealand director for muff On and so folks that have reached

1:25:16 out to me, I've taken a summary of what their experience was, and

1:25:21 I've read laid that onto Roger and he's been quite happy to then have a

1:25:26 conversation with them and formally document their sighting, their or their case. So

1:25:30 I do think that the experience experience of phenomenon is it's a fascinating one,

1:25:39 and I hope in due course that experiences get there are given their time of

1:25:45 day, and because the whole focus around the UAP topic thus far has been

1:25:50 about breaking the walls of stigma down around about just being feeling comfortable to talk

1:25:56 about it and feeling comfortable for folks that something to say something, Whereas now

1:26:03 yeah so, and now that it's a lot more people a lot more comfortable

1:26:11 just to have the conversation about the UAP topic. Your case in point,

1:26:15 I was traveling and I've told this story once or twice before. I was

1:26:17 traveling back to my you know where I was born in Sydney, and I

1:26:23 was doing some research at the time on the Phoenix Lights because I did a

1:26:26 documentary on Kurt Russell's Encounter with the Phoenix Lights of March nineteen ninety seven,

1:26:31 and I was going through security and my bag got screened and they pulled it

1:26:36 aside and they wanted to go through it, and the screener opened my bag

1:26:41 and always going through my bag, and then you know, doing the wand

1:26:44 and I had doctor Lynn key Tire's book on the Phoenix Lights, which I

1:26:47 was reading for research at the time, and before I knew it, I

1:26:49 was into a a almost ten minute conversation with this screen in between him doing

1:26:56 other bags about the UAP topic and the Phoenix lights. So it's a lot.

1:27:00 I'm surprised how easy it is to have a conversation with folks that I've

1:27:06 never met or run into at an event and start talking about the topic,

1:27:12 and you know, they don't treat it with the laughing under their hand or

1:27:17 say, oh, it's or bs. And people are a lot more in

1:27:20 my opinion and my experience, people a lot more comfortable to have the conversation

1:27:25 about UAP because of everything that's happened since twenty seventeen, and it's you know,

1:27:30 constantly being talked about in the press, news nation, you know,

1:27:33 us congressmen and women. And my only hope is that we get to a

1:27:38 point where the stigma and ridicule comes down around the on the experience side,

1:27:45 because there are well and truly people out there that have experienced some pretty fascinating

1:27:53 experiences as well as some incredibly scary ones, and you know, I only

1:27:58 hope that they reach a point where they can feel comfortable to come forward.

1:28:01 And the likes of folks, I mean Whitley Strieber, we know he's been

1:28:06 one that's talking about his experience for a long time. There have been many

1:28:11 many others that have come forward and the more conversations that have had at the

1:28:15 experience aside, and I know that there was you know, there there are

1:28:19 some experience groups and coalitions out there. There's the the uap uap MED,

1:28:29 which is you know, Ted Rowe is a part of the there are a

1:28:32 number of other experience of groups out there as well, whether you know,

1:28:38 advocating for the conversation to be had at the experience level and it's creating a

1:28:42 safe space for experiences to come in and open up and have the conversation.

1:28:47 So hopefully, just like on this topic, where more and more people start

1:28:51 to talk about it and there's a degree of safety in numbers, that that

1:28:56 will ring true for experiences in due course as well. That's yeah, it's

1:29:01 amazing, do you think I mean, because I think I always or when

1:29:09 I have an experience. On the show, I mean, one person said

1:29:13 it to me and it kind of put it into context. It was like,

1:29:15 think about this, we are the last group of people who can say

1:29:21 that we've been kidnapped and potentially sexually abused and not taken seriously. Like they

1:29:29 are the last group of people that can do that, that can say that

1:29:33 and not you know, be taken seriously because you know, this day and

1:29:40 age, ah, you know, everything everyone's there's this equality movement for everybody,

1:29:47 you know, everywhere. So I mean, it really is the last

1:29:51 frontier of people who can say that, you know, they've potentially been sexually

1:29:55 abused and know like the cops will literally laugh at them, you know,

1:30:00 and that's a sad that's a sad truth. Hopefully that you know, this

1:30:04 topic is more mainstream and becoming more mainstream, that that that that that that

1:30:13 those layers of the onions start to peel away and we can we can have

1:30:16 that conversation. I mean, I asked him Merchant on the show, you

1:30:21 know, I think I think he said I was the first person to ever

1:30:25 ask a congress person about it. I asked, I was like, if

1:30:29 you found out alien abductions were taking place, what would be Congress's reaction?

1:30:34 And what would you do? And he just stopped, stared into the camera

1:30:40 and said, son, what could we do? Mm hmm. It's a

1:30:45 terrifying thought. Yeah, it is, and and and and that's why if

1:30:49 if if we reach a point where I know Bryce Able often talks about,

1:30:55 well, you know, it's maybe not disclosure that we were hoping for confirmation.

1:31:00 You know a lot of folks that that believe that you know, there

1:31:05 there has been a non human intelligence presence presence on this planet for eighty plus

1:31:14 years, or the there is you know, non human intelligence that is beyond

1:31:20 our planet. I mean, if if we reach a point where, like

1:31:25 we were talking about before, does this feel like there is something coming?

1:31:29 You know, if we were to reach a point where we are given irrefutable

1:31:33 evidence or confirmation as to what UAPR, whether it's non human intelligence, interdimensional

1:31:42 explanation, ultra terrestrial future human, the day that that happens, the day

1:31:46 that we have a conclusion or a definitive answer as to what U a PR.

1:31:53 If it's one of those options, then that completely validates the experience,

1:32:00 the experience of phenomenon, and it adds a lot more weight to the experience

1:32:05 phenomenon, And then that conversation I believe can be had. Now, hopefully

1:32:12 we get to a point where experiences get their time of day and they can

1:32:16 talk about their experience and not feel like they're going to be ridiculed or ostracized

1:32:21 before that happens. But if and when that day comes, I think then

1:32:28 that completely opens up the door for the experience of conversation to be had,

1:32:33 because then the cat's out of the bag and we know that if there is

1:32:36 an HI, then it's not beyond the realm of possibility that well experiences may

1:32:45 have had a pleasant or very unpleasant experience with whatever it is that UAPR.

1:32:53 And that needs to be talked about sosolutely and again and have said it better,

1:33:00 goodness said it better, my friend. So you've been lucky enough to

1:33:04 to be able to have a relationship with someone like Ross Coultart and these just

1:33:12 absolutely amazing people in upology, and what's that you know, what's that been

1:33:19 like for you? And and and you know, for someone who is starting

1:33:24 in the field, you know, and maybe you know this is just speaking

1:33:29 generally, is dissuaded, you know, by because you said earlier, I

1:33:35 mean, this is a full time job in itself, right, especially if

1:33:40 you said marriage and the UFO topic did not always go hand in hands.

1:33:46 And luckily I have a girlfriend who is like just as into it as I

1:33:53 am, and she loves that. I mean, I work at four in

1:33:57 the morning, I do a day job, and then you know, I

1:34:00 come home and this is my passion. I don't care if I make a

1:34:03 single dollar doing it. Don't care, don't care. It's you know,

1:34:10 this is this is the path that I know I was I was meant to

1:34:15 be on. And I think I think, even though you and I are

1:34:19 nuts and bolts guys, I think maybe you have that same feeling like you're

1:34:25 supposed to be here. Yeah. Look, I'm I'm, I've Yeah,

1:34:29 it's funny. I'm I've always been intrigued by this topic, but my intrigue

1:34:32 has only grown in the last seven years. And and I've I've just found

1:34:39 it interesting that I mean, I've never asked to be on someone's podcast or

1:34:45 live stream, or I've never asked to be put in contact with someone everyone

1:34:50 that I have come to know and develop a friendship with an association with this

1:34:56 on this topic, they've either approached me or or that I've been introduced to

1:35:02 them. Uh. And so I find that to be humbling and also interesting

1:35:10 that you know, there are obviously some folks out that have taken notice of

1:35:14 the questions that I'm asking and the answers that I'm trying to uncover. In

1:35:16 some answers that I haven't, I'm covered, And I feel very privileged and

1:35:24 and and grateful that I've been able to stand on the shoulders of giants like

1:35:29 Bill Chalker, Keith Basterfield, Ross Coultart, James Rigney and many others as

1:35:34 well and learn from them directly and just be a sponge basically and soak up

1:35:41 as much as I can from their wealth of knowledge. And to a point

1:35:45 where I've been able to collaborate with Ross Coultart on some serious articles that have

1:35:51 been published in the Australian media. You know, we had both Ross and

1:35:55 I were involved in an article specifically about the Australian Department Defens's denial that it

1:36:03 attended the Five Eyes Forum on UAP in May of last year, and then

1:36:06 a follow up article done in the Canberra Times, Australia's that's kind of like

1:36:14 Australia's capital and the leading newspaper in Australia's capital where most government federal employees work,

1:36:21 you know, talking about Australia's now backflipped and admitted that it did attend

1:36:26 the fives from him on European and Ross and I were integral into getting that

1:36:30 story out into the mainstream media. So I feel privileged that I've been able

1:36:35 to collaborate with Ross on the reporting that we've been able to get out there

1:36:41 together from in an Australian context. I mean, Ross a lot of his

1:36:45 work is very US centric and rightly so, he's got a lot of US

1:36:51 based sources, but he still has an active presence back home in Australia,

1:36:57 and I'm grateful again that I've been able to to collaborate with him on getting

1:37:02 the news out that's got an Australian focus to it. So it's been Yeah,

1:37:09 it's been humbling as well as a privilege to learn from those folks because

1:37:13 I still think of myself very much as being very green on the topic.

1:37:17 You know, I haven't been investing and putting in the years and years of

1:37:21 research like folks like Bill Chalker, who I have a ton of respect for

1:37:26 in Keith Basterfield, and I've been privileged to learn from both those guys directly

1:37:30 and feel like Keith has mentored me a lot in Foyer and I've been able

1:37:35 to learn and have I mean, I was at a Ross Coultart did a

1:37:41 Q and A event in Melbourne and Sydney last year and I was fortunate to

1:37:45 go to both of them. And after the Sydney event, a group of

1:37:49 us went out for dinner, you know Ross, myself, James Rigney,

1:37:55 Roger Stankovic, and Bill Chalker, and I was seated next to Bill Chalker

1:37:59 all night at dinner, just picking his brain. I was in his ear

1:38:01 the whole night, and I felt like, poor bugger, I'm not giving

1:38:03 him a chance to eat his meal or have have his have his beer because

1:38:09 I mean, he's near the whole night, but just wanting to be a

1:38:11 sponge and and just learn from the wealth of knowledge and history that those guys

1:38:15 having the having their heads. So it's been, it's been, it's been

1:38:19 fascinating. Yeah, you'll have to put in a good word for us.

1:38:21 Uh. Ross is one of those all those guys are definitely in and in

1:38:29 the top of the list of people to to have on the show. And

1:38:31 and you know we're only getting getting bigger and and yeah, I mean I

1:38:36 know Ross is a very hard man to track down there. I mean,

1:38:40 I was fortunate enough to have him on my you know, my podcast with

1:38:45 Bill Chalker and another altogether, yeah, back in August of last year.

1:38:49 And that was that was that was great to get together. Absolutely wanted to

1:38:56 get Keith Basterfield on as well, but he wasn't available, so it was

1:38:59 it was just good to have those folks on together and uh and and share

1:39:02 their thoughts. Well. Lastly, before I let you before I let you

1:39:08 go for the first time because I feel you know, I feel well,

1:39:12 well, we'll be having many more conversations. Uh. You know, in

1:39:16 your opinion, what rule does storytelling and media play and cheaping public reception?

1:39:24 Uh? And believes about UFOs Uh, you know, particularly in Australia and

1:39:29 in your media. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, being

1:39:36 a filmmaker myself, like I I studied directing for the screen at the Australian

1:39:43 Film Television Radio School, which is Australia is kind of like Leading film school.

1:39:48 And this is going back a decade ago, and I didn't end up

1:39:53 working in the film industry, but I've kept filmmaking as a passion ever since

1:39:57 then. I feel privileged that I've been able to incorporate my love of storytelling

1:40:02 and filmmaking into now doing documentaries on this topic, but not being you know,

1:40:12 real, you know, non fiction documentaries as opposed to fictional storytelling,

1:40:17 which I was originally had a passion for, but now my passion has now

1:40:24 transitioned to you know, real fiction documentary storytelling. And I think you can

1:40:30 and through what I've done with obviously my documentary that did on Kurt Russell and

1:40:34 the Phoenix Lights and obviously the Westill Witnesses, I've been able to blend in,

1:40:42 you know, storytelling through your Kurt's history from his humble beginnings as a

1:40:49 child actor with Disney through to his adult years as a as a as a

1:40:59 as a serious actor and obviously my favorite all time actor, and blend that

1:41:04 in with his account of the Phoenix Lights. And we know that in twenty

1:41:12 seventeen when he was promoting Guardians of the Galaxy Volume two. He was on

1:41:15 for those that don't know. Briefly, he was on the BBC's The One

1:41:20 Show and he revealed to the world that it was he and his son Oliver

1:41:25 Hudson. It was he that he was the general aviation pilot that called into

1:41:30 air traffic control at Phoenix Sky Harbor International that he was seeing six lights running

1:41:36 back over the airport and air traffic control was not painting, was not pinging

1:41:41 anything on their radar. So he was the Yeah, he was the general

1:41:45 aviation pilot that called in that reported the Phoenix lights and that came out nineteen

1:41:51 in twenty seventeen, some what's that twenty years after it happened. And then

1:41:56 he talked about it again with Jimmy Kimmel the following Yearly recently he and his

1:42:01 son Wyatt Hudson were on I believe it was Jimmy Kimmel again talking about Whyatt

1:42:10 his son has also had a sighting of uap ufo and Goldie Horn has had

1:42:16 his long you know, Kurt Russ's longtime partner has also had her experience with

1:42:23 the phenomenon. So it's interesting that it kind of runs in the family.

1:42:27 But I feel fortunate enough that I've been able to blend my love of storytelling

1:42:34 into you know, non fiction documentary filmmaking, and I think more more films

1:42:45 that are done like that they resonate with me. I connect with those stories

1:42:54 a lot more like the documentaries that James Fox puts out Shane right, obviously

1:43:00 telling a story about telling it a way that it's truthful and respectful of the

1:43:06 facts about the case and the experiences that the individuals involved, the ones that

1:43:12 actually do what an investigative documentary are supposed to do and don't just you know,

1:43:17 throw alien you know, scary alien cut scenes, uh, you know

1:43:23 the cut quick ull shot of the alien like turning around creepily like investigative investigative

1:43:31 filmmaking. Yeah, And and you know, love w or hate him.

1:43:35 I mean, I don't agree with his position on a lot of things,

1:43:39 but you know, I am very envious of Stephen green Street's filmmaking. He

1:43:47 actually, he produces, He's a one, he's a really good editor,

1:43:51 he has a ton of production value, and he in what he puts out

1:43:56 there. I just don't, and I imagine many others don't necessarily agree with

1:44:00 the story and narrative that he's telling in Uh, I'm sorry, are you

1:44:06 saying Stephen green Street or Stephen Greer? No, Stephen green Street, Okay,

1:44:12 because I was gonna say even Greer's documentaries are done in a way that

1:44:17 I like, Yeah, the production values there and and you know there is

1:44:24 green Street his skin Walker Rant series, the first four episodes because because he

1:44:30 I mean, he milt talk about milk and something he milt that one night

1:44:36 that Skinwalker he did. And I mean, I've got my own thoughts on

1:44:43 Stephen green Street, which I'll be sharing, he blocked, hopefully the not

1:44:48 future is that's a side another project of mine. I I do envy uh

1:44:57 and applaud his his Yeah, his production skills because he does do some great

1:45:03 work in putting together a finished pace. They had me like those episodes,

1:45:09 they had me hooked. I was like I was eager and asking like,

1:45:14 hey, when's the next one coming out? And you know, even though

1:45:16 him and I had you know, we're arguing in other forums, I was

1:45:20 always always like, hey, you know, you do really good work,

1:45:26 Like like I really like again what you said, the production value, you

1:45:30 know, I just I think like even in one of his videos. Uh,

1:45:35 he goes to where he has his own UFO hiding right, talks about

1:45:41 it and then just like dismisses it like and and and and puts the garbage

1:45:46 on it, like must have been a secret tech you know that it is

1:45:53 what it is? Uh, And I'm just like, ah, god,

1:45:56 you could like how did it start? How did the basement office start from

1:46:01 what it was and to what it is? Like what made him Yeah,

1:46:11 yeah, that's again, yeah again again, story from the day? I

1:46:15 respect. I agree. I mean, I think, look, he's a

1:46:19 great storyteller. He he has you know, he's obviously been uh he's been

1:46:27 inspired by the filmmaking of Michael Moore. And you can see Michael Moore's style

1:46:30 comes through without question in Stephen green Street's documentary filmmaking style. I just don't

1:46:40 agree with everything that he's putting out there, but I do. I do

1:46:44 enjoy the production value that he puts into his contents. And as a filmmaker

1:46:48 myself, obviously I'm very much still a novice filmmaker. I'm not at the

1:46:54 level of obviously green Street and James Fox and Shane Ryan and these guys.

1:46:58 But as you know, as a filmmaker, I have a level of appreciation

1:47:02 for the editing and the production value that that goes into the content that he

1:47:06 puts in. Oh you're yeah. I mean we had this conversation before we

1:47:11 went on, and I mean, I'm making my first feature length documentary right

1:47:16 now, and like the the minutia. Oh, I mean, it's just

1:47:24 incredible the amount of work. And again that's why, like you know,

1:47:30 when it comes to ufology and money, there's this thing about people where like

1:47:36 if you make money off of ufology, you must be a grifter. It's

1:47:40 like, well, okay, let's look through a different lens, because again,

1:47:46 it's a full time job in its own. As soon as I get

1:47:50 home from work, like I'm either recruiting guests, keeping up dialogue, editing,

1:48:01 YadA YadA, and now tackling this project. You know, it's it's

1:48:06 just an every day thing. And I love it, I really do.

1:48:15 I love it. And you and you and you you hit home the point

1:48:17 there. We do it because we love because it's a passion. We don't

1:48:19 do it for the money. Like I I've lost money, I haven't made

1:48:24 you know, in some cases, I've only breaken even on the short films

1:48:29 that I've done, and we don't do it to make a masa offer it

1:48:33 or certainly I can speak for myself on on on that front. But you

1:48:38 know, if you're fortunate enough and lucky enough to have it connect with an

1:48:43 audience so that you can get a return on your investment, then you should

1:48:47 be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor, because there is I mean,

1:48:53 you eat, sleep, and breathe, the project is that you're committed

1:48:56 to making from script to screen, and it's the first thing you think about

1:49:00 when you wake, and it's the first thing the last thing you think about

1:49:01 before we get to bed. And you know, folks that have not made

1:49:08 a film before, whether it's a short film or a documentary, or have

1:49:12 not been involved in the production of a podcast or live stream like you're doing,

1:49:15 you know, they only see the finished product. They don't see all

1:49:18 of the blood, sweat and tears that goes into pre production, the production,

1:49:23 marketing of it, and so on. So it's and that's why I

1:49:28 have no issue with people enjoying the fruits of their labor. But for many

1:49:32 of us, we do it not for that motivation. We do it because

1:49:35 we love it. And we want to share that story with others that will

1:49:39 enjoy it as well. Absolutely, man and Grant, what do you have

1:49:45 coming up in the future that people can look forward to? I know that

1:49:48 you yet the podcast, so plug away, my fa So I actually did

1:49:55 a live stream only yesterday, so yeah, I yeah, And we haven't

1:50:00 talked about that much today, but it kind of is along the theme of

1:50:05 what we've been talking about today. But I've got a YouTube channel. It's

1:50:09 called The Unexplained Rundown if you just search for that by name or just my

1:50:13 name, Grant Lavac on YouTube. It's also on Spotify if you prefer the

1:50:16 audio version. If folks that want to follow me on x or Twitter,

1:50:21 my handles just at Grant Lovac. I don't have the opportunity at the moment

1:50:27 to do as many live streams as i'd like. My wife and I were

1:50:31 expecting our second child in the coming month, so we've got a beautiful baby

1:50:38 boy going to be entering into our world shortly, so that'll probably put me

1:50:44 I'll go dark for a short while there, but I certainly would like to

1:50:47 continue to share updates with folks that in Australia and abroad that are interested to

1:50:54 learn what I'm able to uncover on the UAP topic in Australian context. So

1:51:00 usually whenever I learned something new, which at the moment has been on average

1:51:04 once a month, I usually share that in a in a live stream.

1:51:08 So but go to my channel you'll find all the all the information on the

1:51:13 live stream I did yesterday, and and the West All Witnesses and and Kurt

1:51:15 Russ and the Phoenix Lights and other other episodes that I've done. Yeah,

1:51:19 well, in future episodes we'll get into way more. Now that you know,

1:51:24 introduct three phases out all your links. I'll put in the description below

1:51:28 for everybody and grant thank you so much for taking time out of your day

1:51:34 and doing this sport with me. It truly means a lot to me and

1:51:40 to to our audience, to you know, to every You're very welcome,

1:51:45 my friend. I appreciate you you having on and give me a chance to

1:51:47 share some Australian insights with your with the audience as well. So so so

1:51:50 thanks for having me and and enjoy Easter with your family obviously. Yeah yeah,

1:51:57 unfortunately, uh Easter is not a good one for us. So my

1:52:01 mom my mom passed away the on sheet. Well, her technical death death

1:52:06 date is four three two one, and in twenty twenty one, that was

1:52:14 the day before Easter. Okay, well but but but but but that was

1:52:23 the day in that room I had a UFO sighting in the in the front

1:52:30 of my parents. I was when I was younger. In that day,

1:52:35 I watched her leave her body. That's what set me on the path to

1:52:40 doing this show, giving up culture and leaving Hollywood. I used to interview

1:52:45 actors. So again I try to frame it in the best way possible.

1:52:50 Right, So that's why I'm here today is for her. And you know,

1:52:59 this whole week I've been putting up what you'll see at the end.

1:53:02 But again, you know, we all have our ways that we enter and

1:53:08 stay in this field. And I look forward to having many more conversations.

1:53:13 You're now the Australian correspondent for Total Disclosure. Just kidding. It's an unpaid

1:53:19 internship now, NOD be happy to come on anytime you want me back,

1:53:24 and I would say, then enjoy celebrating your mother's life and memory, all

1:53:30 right, And for everyone that's watching or listening, if you can leave a

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1:54:20 see you next time. Thank you again, great, Thanks Tom Something