"They Left Me No Choice"- Civilian Contractor Comes Forward| Total Disclosure Podcast

0:21 Speaker 1: So so All right, everybody, welcome back to Total Disclosure, hosted by... Yours truly, Ty Roberts. I'm super excited to be here. I hope you guys are ready for a really fun night. I interviewed a gentleman who goes by the name Whistling Mike. I recorded this interview probably three, I don't know, Gene might know the exact time. But some months ago, I interviewed a guy named Whistling Mike. He's a civilian contractor. And we had to film it in a very unique way, you know, kind of over the shoulder.

2:15 Speaker 1: He was very adamant about not showing himself on camera. He was protecting, you know, what he was doing behind the scenes, trying to get said contract with the government. And, you know, you told me something at the beginning of this week while we were filming our last episode that we did. Kind of just want to pass it to you. Why are we here tonight? Obviously, this is a live show, but why are we here tonight specifically doing this show?

2:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you know, as you covered back during that live interview and even before that, I think we'd had Mike on a couple of times when he was just his avatar up on the screen. And, you know, he wanted to You know, he wanted to demonstrate to the powers behind the scenes that he's not going to wait forever, that what he's talking about has real national security implications, and that, you know, he's been nice for a while in trying to, work with them to bring, you know, not just bring a story, but to really bring what he has to offer in the space of UAS, these unmanned aerial systems detection and security.

3:49 Speaker 2: And, you know, you look over the last few months, right? Look at what's happened in Russia with drones and the attacks on their infrastructure. And there's, you know, Natalia was telling me today, she keeps track of it daily. you know, one gas station will have one brand of fuel, you know, for a limited amount of time, and everybody, you know, everybody's rushing for, you know, to get 95 at one station, and then, oh, there's 98 at another, and it's just, you know, a mess. You look at what's developed, you know, continued to develop in Iran, and today, you know, President Trump talking about the U.S. energy infrastructure and all the rest of it.

4:32 Speaker 2: So there are a lot of vulnerabilities. This drone threat is real. And Mike's a guy that has an answer and has been led around by the nose by the government for almost two decades now. Over like 20 years, he's been doing this.

4:53 Speaker 3: Right, right.

4:54 Speaker 2: And we're here now because he finally said, you know, that's it. I'm coming out. I'm coming public. You know, once his full identity is revealed, there's other stories that will fall into place that have happened over the decades. And, you know, we said, let's get you on with time.

5:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, puzzle pieces where we'll kind of start to, you'll start to see where they fit in into the larger picture. Something I really actually wanted, so I want to talk to you about this before this is like kind of a side story, but, um, do you remember I told you a story about Mario Woods? He was, um, good nuclear, uh, he was at, well, military police on a nuclear facility, Ellsworth air force base in the seventies.

5:47 Speaker 4: Yep.

5:48 Speaker 1: Well, turns out his partner had gone missing, not missing, but they got separated during the event. right after it happened.

5:57 Speaker 2: And he was never able to reach out or find him again.

5:59 Speaker 1: Right. That is. And Mario's a good friend of mine. I actually called him today to, because, and I'll give credit where credit is due. And I'm doing this now because I need it to be in the beginning. So sorry, Mike, I need it to be in the beginning. Mario was able to find Michael Johnson with the help. of Jesse Michaels from American Alchemy. Credit where credit is fucking due. I tried to look for Michael Johnson. It was like a needle in a haystack in an ever-connected world. You figured, you know, Mario had hired private investigators.

6:39 Speaker 1: Mario had hired, like, serious people. He only agreed to be on Elizondo's TV show if History Channel helped him look for Michael Johnson, which they didn't help look for him.

6:53 Speaker 4: Right.

6:54 Speaker 1: Told him, like, hey, yeah, we'll do what you ask. Got him. That's a separate story. Arrow, but this is where it kind of ties in, he also testified to Arrow and asked them the same thing. He said, I'll testify, but you have to help me locate Michael Johnson. They said, yep. They heard his testimony and then never helped him. Jesse Michaels enlists the help of someone and they found him, dude. And there's like a little teaser that played in the Joe Rogan episode. And like, you can see Mario cry, like really crying and like, dude, this is a hard military dude.

7:34 Speaker 1: Like, and this is a guy with one of those like very photographic memories where he like, he remembers detail. Like you can be like, what was the weather on this date? Look it up. And he's right. Like he's one of those guys. And arguably one of the most, arguably one of the best cases of, But it also is a big part of the nuclear UFO similarity. Always a reddish orb over the base, over the silos that is interacting with the weapons and interacting with those that are guarding weapons and attached to them in some shape or form.

8:18 Speaker 1: So I just want to get that out of the way. Congrats. We're going to definitely give you a bring Mario to Mario Boston, though, and hopefully even Michael Johnson. But what a reunion. With that being said, guys, let's bring them in. Let's bring them in. Oh, my God. There's a banner over your face for the first time. Mike, how are you, man? It's good to see you with a camera on. I think you're muted, bud.

8:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, we can take care of that.

8:51 Speaker 5: From here you know it's going to get pretty serious pretty fast so.

8:56 Speaker 1: Why and and before bringing the last panel panelist on this um and there's a reason that we did it this way um why are you what what because i remember me and gene had a conversation a while back and it was after we had filmed with you here in the studio and i just asked him i was like you know gene Eventually one way, like the, the shoe's going to drop on one side, right? He's either going to get the contract. He's going to go silent.

9:28 Speaker 2: Right.

9:30 Speaker 1: And, or he's going to get frustrated. He's going to go public. And I was like, I wonder how long it will be. And here we are. So it's just, it's a very interesting, what made that happen?

9:44 Speaker 5: You know what? I was always willing to be reasonable till I couldn't be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men have to do unreasonable things. To quote Marvin Heemeyer.

9:58 Speaker 1: I like that.

10:00 Speaker 5: Point. Real fast, my own words have been, the world's changed, you just don't know it yet. Well, fuck that. Time to start talking and showing people things. That's where we're at right now.

10:16 Speaker 1: And that's what I really want to talk about, obviously, because I think what's lacking in this community right now is actual hands-on, like, all right, let's go somewhere. Let's put it up. Let's show me how it works. Give me a demo. And then filling in parts of the story that maybe you didn't want to talk about before, what goes where that can help us understand um you know where this material came from or where it might have come from uh what your best speculation is um given you know its capabilities but we do have one last person um that you requested be here tonight and uh i'm gonna switch the background uh dave ungar uh welcome to total disclosure man.

11:09 Speaker 4: Hey guys thank you for having me on tonight it is a pleasure to be here i've uh Like I said earlier, I've watched enough of your shows, Ty, to feel like I kind of know you a little bit. So thanks for having me on, man.

11:21 Speaker 1: That's always a surreal feeling, right? When someone's like, yeah, I've watched you that much where, you know, it's like, because that's the way I feel about like other people. Like I have that feeling towards, you know, certain other podcasters. So, and just people in general on like on TV and, stuff like that. So actors and actresses, but.

11:45 Speaker 4: I don't want to make it sound weird or anything like that.

11:47 Speaker 1: It's not, it's not because you know, like often even like back when I was dating and stuff you know, you never really want to tell people that you do this because there's just way too many hours of me sitting and talking where like, it's just an unfair advantage for someone.

12:09 Speaker 2: Right.

12:10 Speaker 1: You can like really like get to know me. And it's like, you know, that's a choice I make. It's a choice we all make as people that are public facing. And, you know, it's, it is a big risk. Actually, we had a little breach, a little scare recently with the potential doxing. So, you know, it does get real, even though I, I would have been able to handle it. It's just, you, it's, you don't think it could happen until something bad does happen.

12:41 Speaker 5: Right.

12:41 Speaker 1: So, uh, anyway, with that being said, Dave, what, what's your background? What, what tell us a little bit about yourself?

12:50 Speaker 4: Well, um, in the podcasting world, I've run a, uh, pro wrestling podcast since 2015, um, the attitude of regression wrestling podcast. And, um, Like about a year and a half ago, I decided I wanted to branch off and cover this other area that I've always been passionate about, which was UFOs, UAPs, the history of ufology, that sort of thing. So I started to expand the podcast into that. And we started to do some episodes covering some historical sightings. And I've gone through those. And Mike's always been on this show with me, kind of in the chat, although he was the co-host on the last episode we did.

13:29 Speaker 4: But in the real world, Uh, I am an attorney and I, next year will be my 30th year as an attorney. So yeah, too, too long. That's for sure. But, um, but I, you know, I think Mike just kind of asked me with what he's doing. I mean, I need to make it clear. I'm not representing Mike or anything like I'm here kind of as a friend to him and, you know, kind of you guys as well, just, you know, in case things get weird, we go into some places where, where it might be uncomfortable. Um, he just thought it would be a good idea to have somebody around like that.

14:05 Speaker 1: I think it was a good idea too. So I will kind of get us kicked off here. First off, Mike, I know that you've probably told it a million times. I hate to have you do this, but for anyone who doesn't or hasn't heard of you, can you give a brief maybe the briefest you've ever done. I don't know. It's up to you how long you want to go, but just like the, the story of what happened to why you became a person who needed to be anonymous, why you did what you did. Yeah.

14:50 Speaker 5: Well, let's go for it. So I went ahead and threw my ex account back up because as an anonymous person, I dropped off there when I was able to. So, The first clip you're going to see up there pinned is Tim Phillips. That was the former acting director of Arrow. Arrow's essentially switched offices a couple times with the Pentagon for sake of explaining it. They're the office that looks into things like UFOs or UAP. And when he made this comment that's up there pinned, he was actually still getting a paycheck on deferred retirement.

15:21 Speaker 5: And he goes on to say that. One witness, which he later identified me in several other podcasts, came in and he thought that I was distorting the government because I had physical material. And then at the end takes a chip shop on based on what he was heard. He wouldn't think I'd be safe around one's family. I'm the only civilian in the history of America that's ever been torched like that from an SES, which is in Tim's own words, serves at the pleasure of a president.

15:50 Speaker 1: Sorry to cut you. I didn't mean to jump in there, but. That was a wild thing to say. And like getting to know you, that was definitely a wild thing to say because that's actually how we met. And maybe I should have told that story. Maybe that would have been a better one to like intro how I know you.

16:09 Speaker 5: Well, it's still a good place to jump in. So this has been going on for decades. I've been building technology for decades, all on my own chance encounter. Everything we've been doing is trying to help the government. you know, that was the whole point of me having to come out at all and start talking, uh, the funding people that work with the government that, you know, briefed SSCI brief, some of the UAP caucus and on how to get me going, have vouched for me. They're still with me, right? Tim got terminated.

16:39 Speaker 5: We all know, but they're still with me. So again, this sort of, uh, smearing retaliation of someone coming in and saying some things they didn't like, which was, there are programs out there that, uh, have not been briefed like they should be. And you don't just have to listen to me, even though I'm not on great terms with rounds, his office and around his office. If you look at any of his last interviews or anything he's done with ask a poll, he always says, when he's asked, do you feel like you've been briefed on all the programs out there?

17:11 Speaker 5: He always says, no, he doesn't.

17:14 Speaker 1: Okay.

17:14 Speaker 5: He doesn't think I'm that reason. And I would agree with it. So it was kind of like being stuck in the middle. And then the torching started, uh, Ty kind of got drug into the middle of it. I'm not for sure, but Ty, you may be the only person that's ever interviewed Tim Phillips and me now that I think about it.

17:32 Speaker 1: I think I am actually.

17:34 Speaker 5: So, you know, that's kind of how me and Ty met, uh, cooler heads always prevail. And you also learn to really kind of, um, see who someone really is. Uh, and we went from there, but yeah, that's it.

17:47 Speaker 2: Yeah.

17:48 Speaker 1: It was a dark lesson. So I was, I was set to interview Tim Phillips and it just so happened that you had kind of sprung up in like this way that you were kind of, I don't know, taking the next step. I, you know, it was a very tumultuous time for me because I was like, wait, what the hell did I do? Cause all I did was schedule the episode. And then I found out that things were being scheduled around said episode. And I was like, what the fuck did I just get involved in? Like, What the fuck?

18:22 Speaker 5: What did I do? Just to kind of chip on on that, I'm the only civilian in my group, contain the only civilians, non-military, non-clearance holders, to ever be in the history of the Senate Select Committee Intelligence SCIF ever be in there. Even the fucking janitor has to have clearance.

18:43 Speaker 1: Right.

18:44 Speaker 2: So, a.

18:47 Speaker 1: Couple decades ago, What happened to you? You can give us the brief version. But to bring us back to when this all began, that night that, you know, you see what you see in the sky.

19:07 Speaker 5: Yeah.

19:09 Speaker 1: You don't have to give like this long.

19:10 Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. So the shortened version is, you know, even though I've made it pretty high, you know, I was the VP of a publicly traded company for a while. I grew up in a town, you know, basically pretty poor as can be, you know, I'm not much of a complainer to go down that route, but, uh, definitely lived the American dream. And because I grew up in that sort of way, I'm still hands-on.

19:31 Speaker 1: Right.

19:31 Speaker 5: So did investments, started little businesses on the side, right. Everybody, you know, wants to own this or own part of that. And, um, one of them happened to be a company that dealt in high technology to monitor, various things. And like I've always been, there was a long drive to make for a client. And I was like, yeah, I'll throw in on it.

19:54 Speaker 1: Right.

19:54 Speaker 5: You know, I can take off a pinstripe soup in a board meeting and just throw on some jeans and wranglers. Right. I'm from Kansas. So. I was like, look, I'll drive home if you guys don't want to stay. It was going to be one of them nights where it's a late drive. They were like, yeah, we'd like to drive, so I'm in the will. Rolling along about 3 a.m., came across some lights out in the field that shouldn't have been in there. It was getting close to home. Went through a whole process of trying to get closer and closer to it, and it was tracking slowly away from us.

20:24 Speaker 5: Ended up actually getting up to it. And there you have what is the craft. I think a lot of people like to refer to it as a triangle. This is close to what we've seen, but it was an actual craft. So not just a flat triangle like some of the illustrations I see. And we happen to have a whole bunch of technology with this. And so after a couple minutes, you know, we didn't go in guns a blazing. We went in incredibly slow, incredibly cautious. It was like, Jesus, why would we not? Why would we not try and get some readings and some information from it?

20:55 Speaker 2: So.

20:56 Speaker 5: We went through all that, uh, right towards the end, a piece of simply put came off, fell off, right? We think that had to do with why it was basically off the ground, less than 50 foot for more than 10 minutes, just hovering, you know, problems, issues, uh, recovered that piece. And then we gained the journey the next day where you're talking to all your group and your group's kind of saying like, I sure the hell don't want to be the guy that's got to call in and say, you know, I seen this thing or I recovered this.

21:24 Speaker 5: So If they go back and listen to the podcast I did with Ty, I really go through all that. And at first, you know, this is back in the early 2000s. It was a joke, right? Imagine calling the FBI saying at 3 a.m. you saw a UFO out in the field in Kansas, right? Things have changed a lot.

21:43 Speaker 3: Yeah.

21:44 Speaker 1: And that's something. Did you? I forget. I will do when for anyone watching this in the future. there'll be like a little thing that's up there right now and uh it'll link you to the episode that we did together in the studio where it kind of goes through everything um but when you were calling the fbi and telling people about this originally were you including the part that something fell off and that you had retrieved something.

22:12 Speaker 5: It never got to that you know you anybody when you go through a process and this is one of the reasons me and Dave get along good is he kind of goes through a chronological order on his podcast and fits it together. And so no different than my story, you know, I want to start at the beginning. I want to make sure I'm talking to someone that's going to listen to me. I want to make sure I don't just blurt out, you know, hovering UFO at 3 a.m.

22:35 Speaker 2: Right.

22:36 Speaker 5: Cause you know, that's not going to go well. But even though I tried and tried again and tried a different office calling through every time you got to it, they would either hang up on you or tell you basically, sir, call one of these, you know, move on or whoever might've been back at the time. So no, it never got to that point because they did not want to hear the story. I couldn't get ahold of the where desk or whatever they've talked about it. It just never got to any part of that story. That was already too wild of a story for them.

23:07 Speaker 5: FBI has got better things to do.

23:10 Speaker 2: Yeah.

23:11 Speaker 1: I suppose if, if, If that makes any fucking sense, I don't understand, because if there's a triangle craft that is being described like that, if I took that call as an FBI agent.

23:25 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you know, keep in mind to kind of work through this quickly. We then went to the Department of Defense and we went to each military branch and they were highly interested because we started to send in information, right? You know, different type of coordinates and information. But they weren't like, let's have a talk. It was, let's investigate you. So, you know, we went through getting investigated by all sorts of military intelligence. You know, we're civilians, right? I'm a civilian.

23:53 Speaker 5: So eventually, even though they put us through the ringer, which they legally shouldn't have, because you can't do that with a civilian.

24:00 Speaker 2: Right.

24:00 Speaker 5: We're talking things like polygraphs and all sorts of stuff. You're not supposed to do that. It's supposed to go down jurisdiction-wise to the FBI. Would the Patriot Act.

24:11 Speaker 1: allow them to treat you as, I don't want to say this the wrong way, but you know what I mean?

24:20 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, again, I don't know unless Dave wants to kick in on that. I mean, but I suppose my view was the government does what the government wants to do.

24:29 Speaker 1: Right. Like, cause if they're treating you hostile, if they're treating you that way and like, you know, we're not supposed to treat citizens that way is one of the ways that they're getting around that, the Patriot Act. that was signed after 9-11.

24:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've talked about this on my show a bit. Like the Patriot Act, really, it gives the government enhanced ability to engage in extra surveillance, wiretapping, things of that nature. It doesn't necessarily, like I think where you guys are kind of going, it doesn't necessarily immunize them against corrupt conduct, you know, to like plant evidence, to extort evidence, to manufacture, fabricate. I mean, you've heard Matthew Brown and Dylan Borland have talked about that same sort of issue. Where it gets weird is that intelligence agents in the intelligence community, they've got the ability to use all sorts of different concepts of state and federal law to create like this menagerie of immunity, you know, so they can come in and basically say, well, we can do this under the state supremacy clause and you know, throw in a few other things as well and just kind of create this, this veil of immunity on here.

25:40 Speaker 4: And that, that's where you really bogged down in this whole thing is like, yeah, like Mike's saying, they can do pretty much whatever they want and kind of get away with it. And, uh, that's, that's the real uphill battle that you face in these sorts of situations.

25:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's rough. So, okay. So now you start shopping around to the military and military starts investigating you. Um, Can you tell me what happens next?

26:06 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, here's the thing. Everything we did, even when they started to put heat on. Sorry, there's a little bit of echo. Yeah, I got one.

26:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's playing back.

26:19 Speaker 5: Was to do things the right way, right? Legally, we weren't hiding anything. we're literally trying to come to you and say, here's what happened. Here's what we got. And everybody's telling us go away. And then when you start getting to certain branches, you know, even before this, they're like, well, it's not ours. Do what you want with it. It's a joke. So we did, we started to build our radar system. Now, as we started to get actual data to send in, like I was talking about with coordinates and information, that's when they became interested.

26:47 Speaker 5: So that's post getting some actual radar systems up and rolling. So when it got down to where we were at, What we wanted to do was be cleared by everybody. There was only one step left, and that was the FBI. Once they clear us, then hell, let's get the company up and rolling, right? So willingly went into the FBI. They wanted it at the headquarters. It wasn't one of them personal visits. They got the Department of Justice there. They got the attorneys and the littlest fucking table you've ever seen in your life.

27:19 Speaker 3: Ha, ha, ha, ha.

27:20 Speaker 5: You know, so I get to sit at that tiny ass little table, these big fucking muscle guys everywhere.

27:26 Speaker 1: I mean, and you're not like a small guy either. No, like I.

27:29 Speaker 5: Don't know how many it took to kick my ass, but they had enough. It was kind of one of those sort of ordeals, you know? And then, of course, you got the fancy suit guys. And one guy, the only thing I can figure, because it was early in the morning, he must have down like a pot of coffee and like a six pack of monster because he was fucking ready to go.

27:47 Speaker 2: Right.

27:49 Speaker 5: So it ends up as we're going through this where whatever I say, he's speaking over me. He starts slamming his fist on the fucking table. And he gets to the point where he's saying that I am blackmailing the United States government. And I'm saying, nope, I'm not.

28:03 Speaker 1: Not at all.

28:04 Speaker 5: And he's saying, yeah, you are. That's what you just said it. I'm like, nope, I did not say that. That's your words. I'm like, yeah, you did. That's what blackmail is. And it's like, look, man, we came here willingly. I've talked to you willingly.

28:17 Speaker 1: Right.

28:17 Speaker 5: It was a mistake. Didn't bring an attorney. Probably should have got one before I went through all this. And that's what ended up getting me in a whole lot of trouble. Not trouble because I did something wrong, but just trouble because you get taken advantage of. So, you know, a rule to live by there. But at the end of all this, he got pretty pissed at me because I actually am pretty good debating. Maybe I'm dumb or too smart, but I'm pretty good at some smart ass comments back, you know. So I kind of got him into a word salad where it was like, look, I'll take a fucking polygraph that shows you I didn't break any rules or laws.

28:51 Speaker 5: And he was like, well, you know, a polygraph isn't accepted in court. And I was like, no, but you know, I know the intelligence industry, it's mandatory to get the right guys. And I'm thinking maybe they aren't so good after all. You know what I mean? I torched his ass too. So we go at it. The Department of Justice guy who was pretty mum the whole way, other than to like calm things down every once in a while, I guess he was the good cop in this, you know, he was like, well, okay. based on everything i've heard it was a long fucking meeting he was like there is nothing that we would be charging you for it would appear that you have not broken any laws however you know as we've talked through this in the company that you're gonna start i would highly suggest you look at itar rules and laws that's a whole other conversation but basically if they can't get you in things like the Invention Secrecy Act, there's also rules, Department of State, ITAR, International Traffic of Arms Regulations, where they can limit anything you make has to be turned into them, and they have to determine...

29:56 Speaker 5: First of all, what's its capability? So you got to tell them all the secret sauce, right? So they can remake it anyway. So it's the same as the Event Secrecy Act. And then they actually have to approve who you do or don't talk to to sell to. So even if you have the world's greatest creation, which we do, you can't talk to anybody and sell it. You even have to get your marketing materials approved. If you're going to go to a show, you have to get it approved. And even if you get through all that, the final client has to be turned in with the purchase price and they have to approve it.

30:22 Speaker 5: It's kind of like the other thing. It's the same as countries right now are saying like, hey, we want to buy the F-35. It's the ITAR rules that prevent them from doing that.

30:32 Speaker 3: Right, right.

30:34 Speaker 5: So you're boxed in and you're fucked. That's what it comes down to. Doesn't matter. You're able to legally do this. You still can't sell to anybody, right? That's the whole key to this.

30:46 Speaker 1: So are they doing this so that you kind of just go away or are they hoping that the only they'll just you'll just succumb to doing business with just them.

30:59 Speaker 5: Well you know the interesting thing is after i got out of this shitty meeting right because i walked out a free man right still a free man the next meeting i would have would be with the united states uh government funding pro that's what i'll refer to him as yeah he's still with me today And kind of what he handles is some of the crazy shit of technology that has been gobbled up or tried to be gobbled up by the Invention Secrecy Act. They'll probably call it the ISA today. And at the end of the day, we want to fucking get that to our men and women in uniform.

31:38 Speaker 5: We want to get that to our forces. This, you know, get out of this bullshit arguing, get out of the Invention Secrecy Act, get out of ITAR, you know. Quit fighting your own government as a civilian. Let's just get this shit on the battlefield. And if you haven't noticed, as Gene pointed out, we're getting our asses kicked.

31:55 Speaker 1: Okay?

31:58 Speaker 5: Defense Scoop just covered the commander of NORTHCOM. It was last week saying that we ran our best drone team from Fort Hood against some Ukrainians in a simulation. And I know for a fact we had some of our DARPA shit. And we still got beat. They identified us before we got around the curve and got simulation killed. Okay?

32:17 Speaker 1: This is the whole point of working in that area. Yeah.

32:20 Speaker 5: And I mean, it's it's worse than that. But, you know, whether you like Pete Hacek or the administration that we have right now, he said something everybody in my industry, as I'll call it, agrees with, which is when he first took over, he said, when we war game, some of our assets, especially the expensive ones, they perform very well, very well. But there's also some of our expensive assets that perform very poorly. And he's right. I won't make everybody suffer through the hour-long conversation with that.

32:50 Speaker 5: I may get into that with Dave tomorrow when we talk. But why is it that we have a $ 40 trillion deficit? And I'm not getting into political stuff here. But what is it, $ 3, 600 per person in the United States just for the interest? And we're spending half of this that caused all this on the Defense Department.

33:11 Speaker 4: Okay. Okay.

33:13 Speaker 5: I mean, give me a fucking break. You got to admit we're buying the wrong stuff. You know, I learned through all this talking to someone in appropriations that when they make the list, each, you know, Congress person or each Senator by rule gets the top two things approved. So when, when they do this, so your top two things are going to go to two, two people, one people who kicking a lot of lobbyist dollars by a lot of tickets to, you know, $ 50, 000 dinners, the political campaigns. Second, You've got a big group of people that you represent, a big system of workers, or you have 3,500 people that work for you for votes.

33:50 Speaker 5: So you put in a requirement saying we want a contract. Not you're going to do it, not you're really good at money, but that happens. Not all the time, but this is an issue. So I'll leave it kind of there and land that there, but there's a reason we're going forward. It's not that Whistling Mike is ready to cash in because I've been at this for fucking decades. You know what I mean? I put everything I have into it. Uh, if I was going to do that, I had done that a long time ago. Um, the, the Tim Phillips thing, just real quick, that was, uh, that was a knife in the back and that directly relates to what I just told you about the FBI, because all those files were turned over and we had a long conversation in the skiff about how pissed off I was over that, uh, that accusation that's documented in the fucking report of what happened that day, you know.

34:42 Speaker 1: And how does that make you feel? How does that like, like truly, because it's one thing to be mad at the government, right. To be, to be like, ah, you're putting me through hell.

34:53 Speaker 2: Right.

34:54 Speaker 1: Like, like red tape hell, right. Like paperwork, hell and boxing in and making things difficult. But now you have someone attacking, not just your character, but everything about you saying, yeah, I wouldn't allow him near my family. That is a, like when someone from the, when someone like Tim Phillips says that out loud publicly, that has got to make you so disenfranchised with the system and with the people that are involved in it.

35:29 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, he went after two things, right? He went after I was extorting the United States government. So that's kind of hard to be able to push my company for a deal, wouldn't it? You know, I'm the one extorting the government. Secondly, is that based on what he heard, I wouldn't be safe to have around one's family and what he knew from conversations. And keep in mind, this is before I knew SSCI was putting the knife in my back. You know, we knew those people well. We'd have a couple of drinks down at the pub the day I came in, the day after.

35:59 Speaker 5: I mean, it was a good relationship. We're trying to solve the biggest mystery in the world. And everybody knew how close I am to my kids. I mean, it sounds sappy, but like when we got called in over the Langley Air Force Base drones, I was like, fuck. You know, it's my daughter's Christmas pageant and she's got the lead role. And it was like, it's national security, man. You're the one that told us it was going to happen. It's happening. You just got to fucking get here, right? Buy an expensive ass ticket and fly in.

36:28 Speaker 5: So, you know, that's the life I was living. Had to miss it. And so when they went for that, they knew that that's what was going to keep me from going public. is that now, not just the business side, but all my kids' friends, all the people at my church, I'm in four or five groups that puts on things in our community. You've got a guy at SCS that serves at the pleasure of the president at the Pentagon saying, I'm not safe to have around one kids. That was for them to say, you better keep your face and your full name off the fucking media with your story.

37:05 Speaker 5: That's all that was about.

37:07 Speaker 1: Which is what you did, right?

37:10 Speaker 5: You had to. You had to. There was no other choice.

37:16 Speaker 2: Go ahead, Gene.

37:17 Speaker 5: I don't know.

37:18 Speaker 2: Your camera's out. I don't know if you picked up on that. One other thing I wanted to sort of add and frame for the audience here is that what Mike has gone through with the government. And not just

37:43 Speaker 2: the attempts at them trying to get into and dissect what it is exactly he has without committing to a contract, committing to a contracting arrangement of some kind. But what they've demonstrated... is the idea that has led to many a major disaster across U.S.

38:14 Speaker 1: History.

38:16 Speaker 2: And that's the idea that they fund their pet projects and they fund their donors and they ignore and set aside others who are sounding the alarm. And other people who are bringing things or trying to bring things forward. But everybody's wheel needs to be greased along the way. And, you know, I talk about this all the time when it comes to disclosure and the Secrecy's Task Force and the UAP Task Force and the idea that this administration and this Congress in particular was. So adamant on moving forward on eliminating unnecessary compartmentalization and government secrecy, on transparency, on trying to get through the rules of, you know, even on the stock trading and insider knowledge and all the rest of it.

39:26 Speaker 2: And what Mike's case is demonstrating is is that that is all still alive and well, that you need to pay to play. And the fact of the matter is, in this case in particular, there will most likely be a major event a major security event involving a drone that catches the U.S. off guard, and they're going to throw their hands in the air and be like, well, we could never have imagined. We could never have imagined that this was going to happen this way. When the fact is, they had the ability to know that it was going to happen.

40:08 Speaker 2: They intentionally chose not to pursue it. And it's going to take, you know, and should that scenario manifest, then it's going to be a Herculean effort to bring forward any kind of accountability for all of these politicians in office. So, you know, this is the people, the senators, the representatives, the people Mike's talking about now, that should that day come, everybody who is watching this And everybody who sees it going forward needs to record those names because those are the people who are going to be responsible for it.

40:50 Speaker 2: Because they're playing games with national security. They don't want to piss off their lobbyists who raise money for them, but also represent other companies and other technologies.

41:08 Speaker 1: Right, right.

41:10 Speaker 2: And again, not to speak for Mike, and correct me if I'm wrong, but he's already lost all the money he's going to lose on this thing. Yet he's continued to try and bring it forward. Because again, it's going to be shocking. It is going to be a headline when all things roll out. And everybody understands the billions, hundreds of billions, perhaps of technology that the United States currently leverages to say where the best in is obsolete overnight. And that's, that's the risk that they're afraid of, uh, afraid of getting out.

42:06 Speaker 2: Um, If they don't get the clue out of this, then that clue is going to bite them in the ass come October. In my opinion. That's just me.

42:22 Speaker 1: You said it really well. I can't get this out of my head. Mike, you said something right before. You said you told them that this was going to happen in reference to Langley and drone incursions. What did you mean by that? What did you mean by you told them that when he said you told us this was going to happen? Yeah.

42:49 Speaker 5: So a couple of things here just to get caught up, because it's nice to be able to talk a little bit now. I saw a question pop up that said, Can you tell us a little bit more? I think he called it the Tic Tac. Well, there's different generations than just the Tic Tac. But the little tidbit I'll throw in there before I move on to the next question is that the first one we came up upon actually had what you would want to, if you looked at, you'd say that's a cockpit. Like I said, it wasn't just a flat triangle.

43:16 Speaker 5: So a little tidbit there for the audience. Let them know I am going to start talking. So when you see what's in the air, and this is something I talk about with you guys. I talk about Dave probably a lot tomorrow. The key is if it's up there, we want to know what it is. It actually doesn't matter if it's NHI, aliens, if it's Chinese, whoever it is, if it's not supposed to be there. And we know from some of the actual public hearings where they call on someone from armed services and they say, I think last year was 500 and some instances that they had over sensitive bases, not even just your regular base, but sensitive sort of sites, nuclear stuff.

43:57 Speaker 5: And we don't know who it was. We couldn't track it. And it's gone. That's kind of what Gene was talking about, where something's going to happen. And everybody, trust me, everybody knows it's going to happen. Look at some of the articles the last couple of weeks and months. So with that said, our system, because my dad always said, you know, you come to me with all the problems you got, but make sure you got a solution, right? Don't ever just show up with a problem.

44:25 Speaker 1: Right.

44:27 Speaker 5: We did that with the government. We've done that with the military. We're not just going to tell you what's up there. Here's the solution. The solution is our system. And we know that because as we get going on to the story, there is a reason why some of the stuff we were detecting the, that particular country would send in a death threat. That's not a story. Those go straight over the alphabet agencies. Even when we were dealing with arrow and OSI and they get verified, this is real life stuff that happens.

44:55 Speaker 5: So likewise, How do we pick up some of this technology with the observables and the UAPs because it's in the air? So the answer to that is while we're out running and gunning, right, we could tell, and I think everybody knows now, that our skies are littered with drones and other technology from adversary countries that should not be there. You don't just come over and say, let's unload these drones and fly over Langley. You don't know what Langley is and the sort of technology they have at Langley.

45:29 Speaker 5: You're essentially talking about the same technology that's on things like the presidential limo fleet, Air Force One, Marine One. If they can't pick up drones there, if they can't bring them down, which we know because Roger Wicker, the chairman of the armed services, went on 60 Minutes and told the world. then neither can the presidential limo fleet or anything else. Now, I'm not trying to get a visit from Secret Service, but what I'm telling you is we picked up what was going on, which is what you're supposed to be able to do.

46:01 Speaker 5: Don't ask me where the billions are going right now for the system that we have, because I can tell you on what the alphabet agencies tell me and some of the ones that I've helped out, the FAA radar is just as bad as the Department of Defense radar. There's no secret sauce where you just come in and pull one and say, oh, that's got our answer. So we knew what was going on. You know, everything that when we would go in that skiff and all the writings that we'd have to write up, they'd want to know things like, what are you seeing?

46:30 Speaker 5: What are the scenarios? We were providing information for them to war game. We lost every single war game involved in the United States based on what we're seeing with drones. Big news. You're not going to see it on the front page. You're starting to hear little bits about it now because even that one that ran defense scoop, the North comes guy says, look, there's nothing we can do. You know, we're basically caught with our pants down. So we were telling them this stuff. We were telling them what we're seeing.

46:56 Speaker 5: We were telling them what we think the buildup is because Chinese assets work the same way as any assets, right? You do a little bit here. You test it here. You go into like the Nimitz case, right? You kind of want to know what can pick it up, what can't. And we knew it was going to be going that direction. That was the prediction we made. We didn't know the exact date. We didn't have it down to here's the days it's going to happen. But if they would have listened to us.

47:20 Speaker 1: The trend is going one way. So this is bound to happen.

47:25 Speaker 5: It's not if, it's when. I don't know the when, but we know the if. If they would have listened to us, if they would have put our system, we would have been laying in wait. Laying in wait for all that shit to happen. But here we still are. Now we've got all the nonsense with Tim Phillips going on, right? All this other crap. So, you know, people who don't operate in this industry or follow this, this story, believe it or not, is not an original, new, sort of never happens before. You know, when I went to the funding guy after all this shit with, you know, all of our intelligence agencies, he shrugged it off.

48:03 Speaker 5: He was like, that's normal. He's like, all those guys know how to do is try and find a crime. that's what they do for a living. So yeah, man, don't worry about all that crap. And it's like, that's all we, let's move on to the next one. So then it was like, well, then here's how we can fund it. Let's try this. Let's try that. You know, let's try this, you know, let's try, you know, why don't you call and do this? Why don't you call and do that? So like, this is the story, just like you don't hear about things that come out because they've been blocked by the invention secrecy act.

48:33 Speaker 5: But this is what every one of those people go through. So either you give up, or you get intimidated, or you fall for a trap. I saw another question pop up on there about if I've ever been led into a bad situation. Sometimes they're obvious, okay? Because when I was in Senator Round's office and I had to turn in all, I turned in everything I had from foreign contacts. There was a pile of papers he put his finger on and said, do you ever think our own government would try and approach you and see if you would sell it just to see if you would?

49:02 Speaker 5: And then I was like, No, but that's awful weird that you just did that.

49:08 Speaker 4: Right.

49:08 Speaker 5: So, yeah, now I think about it. Yeah, now I think that then there's more obvious ones.

49:14 Speaker 1: Right.

49:14 Speaker 5: And more obvious ones are where every time I go on that fucking skiff, they'd be like, hey, man, fill out this paper. It's only one sheet long. We'll get you a TS. It's super easy. No background. Just fill it out. You know, you're talking about the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. So they could probably print you a badge right there, right? I mean, this is the boss of the IC. So they're not going to have any problem getting you one. Imagine what would have happened if I would have got that, hey, man, it's real quick TS clearance before going into the skiff, right?

49:43 Speaker 5: I got a zipper over my mouth is what would have happened. So there is a lot of that shit. But, yeah.

49:49 Speaker 1: That's like– sorry for interrupting again. See, this is why I like when we do in-person stuff because you can read the room a little bit better. Well, my main thing is– Would you be willing to get your clearance back? And smartly, Gene said. Gene, what did you say?

50:14 Speaker 2: Sorry, I had to unmute. No.

50:18 Speaker 1: Why did you say no?

50:21 Speaker 2: For exactly that reason. Because as soon as you go in, you know, then they start saying what you can say and what you can't say. Not just about, you know, about anything that we've discussed. And, you know, it didn't take, you know, it took me no time. There was no thought about it, right? There was no thought about, you know, well, maybe I should because then, you know, oh, what if they tell me the thing that sort of solves this for the family and, you know, we can sort of go on with life. But, you know, the bigger point with my stuff is that there's like stuff in there that can, I think help humanity, you know, and, and help bring all this.

51:11 Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, I just, you know, it's bigger than just that.

51:17 Speaker 5: Well, you know what, this is one of the reasons why I started to kind of listen to Dave. I won't put Dave on the spot and obviously he won't name names because professional, but, I mean, this does not seem to be within, Dave, your network of folks that are going in and out of skiffs. This doesn't seem to be, without putting words into your mouth, you answer a trick they're only using on me or Gene or whoever. I mean, this kind of seems to be where this is still maybe the oldest trick in the book.

51:44 Speaker 5: Is that kind of a correct one? Get your TS or clearance back?

51:48 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like you said, Mike, and we've talked about before, you've got to play them on their home field. And you got to play by their rules. I think Gene alluded to that as well. And, you know, they're holding all their cards and they're doing everything that they want to do about that. But, yeah, I think like you're saying, it's there's carrots that they dangle over your head and, you know, giving you your clearance back is one of them after they've already gone and destroyed, you know, everything that you've got as far as your job and your career and your security clearances and and everything like that.

52:20 Speaker 4: So. Yeah, I think your situation is certainly unique as opposed to some of the other guys who have the military background or the intelligence background and have been through a different sort of situation. But yeah, I think like you guys are saying, that's something they hold in their back pocket as something they can kind of dangle over you and say, hey, look, come on back in. It'll be great. You'll get your clearance back. We'll even bump it up a little bit. And everything will be perfect. but I think you guys know better than anybody that rarely is, is how it works.

52:55 Speaker 2: Right.

52:56 Speaker 1: Right. Completely agreed there.

52:59 Speaker 3: So yeah, Mike, um, when, when, how.

53:10 Speaker 1: Long did it take for you to essentially get this material and then figure out and develop the, this whatever system that you're using now. I don't know how much you've described of that and how much you are willing to, but it's derived directly from what you retrieved, correct?

53:36 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was actually one of the questions that came in from several senators that sit on SSCI, but it was, if someone didn't have this, speaking of adversaries, right? If someone didn't have this, could they do the same thing you're doing And my answer was no. And that actually gave him a sense of relief, but that also put a big-ass target right on my head.

53:59 Speaker 1: Do you think that this thing was ours, or was it... Because I think a lot of people, or at least most people, when they hear black triangular craft, I think they do associate... If you're around the UFO community a lot, I think you'd probably think man-made, right?

54:20 Speaker 2: Well.

54:20 Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I would think so. I think Dave's kind of honest. That does seem to be where the community's at kind of right now.

54:27 Speaker 1: Not to say that we got the triangle. Not that we're not developing means and ways to fly those things that are anything but man-made.

54:43 Speaker 5: You said, do I think? So I'll quote my wife and say that I shouldn't think. I should just do whatever. do whatever she wants so if you see one of these and if you think and look like i am being honest here and we all know my relationship with arrow and people like tim phillips and kirk patrick but one of the things he said is you could see something that was high technology and by all means any person and even an intelligent person is going to think that must be alien technology there is stuff out there that exists that what else could you think it is i mean look at it look at what it's doing Now, again, I don't say that because I have a good relationship with the guy.

55:21 Speaker 5: We just covered that. But that can happen. So, you know, the first time that I saw something like this, my mind was trying to sort through what it may be or what it may not be. And again, that's a mean use podcast. If people want to roll back, it's like a three hour podcast. You get a lot more than you're going to get here today on that.

55:39 Speaker 2: But.

55:40 Speaker 5: I'm trying to figure out what is it? Why is there lights out there? We get closer. I'm trying to figure out what could do this. Well, it must be a helicopter, right? Well, I'm not hearing anything. I get close enough and there's no rotor wash. There's no noise, but you have a craft in front of you. That kind of throws out the helicopter. You sort of, you know, guess so. Yeah, what the hell could it be? There were people with me that felt like it could have been a UFO, alien, whatever it is. Because why wouldn't you?

56:09 Speaker 5: An intelligent person can still see this and say, we're in Kansas, not a military base where some of these other guys saw it, right? What the fuck is this thing doing here? It's got to be a UFO. So that does happen. And if I could, Mike.

56:24 Speaker 4: Cause like you and I, you and I like, um, last week we covered the fifth UFO file drop and we went, we went through a lot of the documents and there's a lot of stuff in there about triangles. And I think like UAP Gerb was talking about, um, the size of the triangles. And like, I think he said like two to 200 to 300 feet. Um, he thought that those would be ours. They would be manmade or reverse engineered or something like that. But I know Mike, we had that one, we looked at that one file from Afghanistan with that and the artist renderings were shitty as can be, but, There was that one rendering.

56:53 Speaker 4: It was just completely black, no lights, none of the things in the in the vertices of the triangle, nothing in the middle. Like you hear a lot of people talk about the white light in the middle. And I think like you and I were both like, OK, that one's a little bit weird. But I mean, I think you'd answered it when I had you on. But I think you kind of agreed with that, that if they're in a certain size range, that's more than likely ours or something reverse engineered. And if you get, you know, like the one in Afghanistan was like 500 feet.

57:22 Speaker 4: And you and I were both struggling on that one, I think.

57:27 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to really know because the FBI, we all grew up with like they have a sketch artist and they can, you know, draw somebody up, right? We can draw a great picture of Gene and we say, that's the guy, we got him. But all of a sudden they hired somebody to do this recreation of this the UFO sightings and it's the shittiest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it's terrible, but yeah, like me and Dave talked about this a little bit. So I've never seen anything that big.

58:02 Speaker 5: And the one he's talking about, we struggle with is if you don't know how big 500 foot is right. Just do a football field. It's 300. So right. 500 foot craft. I can't even, I mean, I don't, I can't even imagine it. So everything I've seen is what I call fighter jet size. So you're talking like 40 to 80 feet. sort of wingspans and length. And so I've never seen anything that big. Is it possible? Of course it is. Because when you have technology, what do you do? You start making things like, of course, your fighter jets, you want your ISR.

58:36 Speaker 5: Then you start trying to weaponize it, right? Can we drop a payload? Then you start getting into bigger craft possible. Yes. But 500 foot, that's a bit, that's a bit iffy in my mind. I didn't see it. Couldn't tell you, you know?

58:50 Speaker 1: Right. And, you know, I think when you say that 500 feet, or even talk about just football size triangles, I think a lot of people will probably think about the Phoenix Lights case, right? This was a, what seemed to be delta shaped craft, triangular. shaped craft, um, that silently hovered and was seen by essentially a whole fucking city, uh, over, you know, over the, the Hale-Bopp comet, uh, uh, was the Hale-Bopp comet or was an asteroid? I mean, I, was it a, Was it Hale-Bopp? Maybe someone can tell me.

59:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was Hale-Bopp because it was, what, 97?

59:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, so everyone was already out there, ironically. And that's a piece of this thing that is a piece of that story that sticks out to me so much because if it was ours, right, if the Phoenix Lights craft was human, then like knowing that everyone was going to be outside looking up that night seems irresponsibly fucking stupid. I wouldn't put it past human beings. However, I would like to think that if it was ours, unless they were doing some sort of like math sighting, like ML, I almost said MLK, MK ultra, my Jesus Christ.

1:00:29 Speaker 1: MK Ultra mass sighting to see how it would affect long-term population and would it destroy, catastrophically destroy the market the next day? Could they put the genie in the bottle? Unless it was something like that, the Phoenix Lights craft was, I think, reportedly the size of a football field. So if that thing is coming over, passing over with no signs of propulsion, it's having no effect on the air around it. There's no disturbance in the air, right? There's no propulsion. Would you lean towards that being something non-human?

1:01:11 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, for me, again, people don't like it, but it's like when we go in through Roswell and Dave and I have, it's just, it's so far dated back that we have the videos.

1:01:20 Speaker 1: It's not fucking dated.

1:01:22 Speaker 5: Well, it is on information, right? All we have is the videos. of it. And we have people telling us this is the shape it's in. So it's the same system where it's like, what could we get from it? Um, it wasn't over, you know, like, uh, let's fight with the military ranges. You know, do they have anything is what's the closest the FAA radar, right? We know it's shitty now. How good could it have been back then? And then because of its height, did you pick anything up? I mean, we've got that story. And so that's probably its own episode as it is.

1:01:52 Speaker 5: I guess the only thing I would throw in is that, it's not always intentional. You know, it definitely is. There's that whole psychological element, but it's not always intentional. And one of the things that we know for a fact is if we go out and we go out running and gunning around the times where you have meteor showers, I don't think people realize how many meteor showers where we have a year, we get a lot of activity. Now you asked me an earlier question that I'll kind of cover here too. How do I know?

1:02:23 Speaker 5: How do I know it's ours? Because you get into things like data links. So, again, what are they doing? Are they doing that? So if you see something kind of like when they used to fly the SR at Christmas, right?

1:02:35 Speaker 1: With a gorilla mask? Yeah. Yeah.

1:02:39 Speaker 5: So it's like, oh, no, no, no.

1:02:40 Speaker 1: I think we're talking about different stories, but same thing.

1:02:42 Speaker 5: Well, it's just, yeah, it's the same concept. Oh, sure, dummy. You saw Santa or this. No one's going to take you serious. You saw a gorilla fly.

1:02:49 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:02:49 Speaker 5: Cause sometimes the idea of flying high technology does correlate to these things, but if they have a massive fuck up, which that was what that, that would have been, if that's the case, I'm not saying it is. Sometimes that stuff happens.

1:03:02 Speaker 1: Um, yeah. MLK ultra does sound like fucking God to your Martin Luther King. I don't know why I fucked that up. I think it was cause I was talking, I was thinking about MK ultra earlier, but, um, Are you at the point where you're willing to talk? So with the New Jersey drone situation, were you brought in on that? You talked about being brought in on Langley. Were you brought in?

1:03:35 Speaker 5: I wanted to know my, we'll say two cents, but it was a lot more than that on what happened there. Who did it, right? Because it's the same sort of breakdown as a lot of other cases. Not that I was there running and gunning, but when they find someone that can tell you how things work, what do I expect next, which is where the whole Langley thing came from. I'm in the skiff and we're talking Langley, why the public didn't even know about it. And keep in mind, I don't have a clearance, right? We're not contracted, which is kind of why this whole thing's fucked up.

1:04:10 Speaker 5: Where it's like, why is it that the guy with the only answers that's got death threats and some of the largest financial offers from adversaries, That are all verified. Can't get a fucking deal with you idiots. To keep us all safe. And it is the system that works. Drones. UAPs. Even orbs. There was a gentleman we briefed. On how to fund me. And he liked to talk orbs. And we basically said you know what. We'll find out what they are. So the same thing. I'm trying to tell people. Your answers are all going to come from the same place.

1:04:46 Speaker 5: someone that can figure out what the fuck's in the sky. Whatever it is, I think people hopefully will give me enough credit. If it's a UFO, I'll tell you, right? If it's a NHI, I'll tell you. If it's ours, I'll tell you. If it's China, I'll tell you. If it's a government contract and I can't tell you, well, that elected member, if they fund it, will actually have the folder on their desk. So they'll know exactly where it's at. Not this shit where it's like, hey, can I come to Area 51 in three weeks and look in Hangar 4B at the...

1:05:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's gone, right? So at least you know exactly what folder it is. It's on your desk and you can call me in to brief you and I'll fucking tell you the truth. So, you know, me, I always talk strategic plans. There it is.

1:05:31 Speaker 1: Are you worried about your safety with coming and showing your face a little bit more? I know you've kind of always been kind of... safety first, uh, you know, not being conspiratorial of course, but just like practically, because there have been a lot of these cases. You look at Stanley Meyer, uh, with the, uh, with the, uh, H2O engine, uh, or the H2O car, uh, look at guys like, I mean, the list goes on and on, um, when it comes to like the invention, uh, or the, uh, patent office and what, They seem to be willing to do to keep things under wraps.

1:06:15 Speaker 1: You know, are you at all worried about taking this step forward?

1:06:22 Speaker 5: It's a good question. I'm going to tie it in because I got to I got to ask a question on X and I told him I promise I would answer it. And it's the same basically answer, which is. how did I know that when Tim Phillips came out and did what he did that, uh, you know, essentially was at risk. And as I've told the story, well, a couple of people who are still within the system that, you know, have my back told me I got marked for death. And the reason for that is, is because I'd already turned in death threats.

1:06:50 Speaker 5: They'd already verified. And some of them came with phone numbers and they came with, uh, Videos and data that was verified that showed stuff that you knew we were talking with people who were, A, the real fucking deal, and B, had the ability to pull off that death threat. Nasty people that you don't want to have contacting you. So that was already going on. Are these nation states? These are the people representing the nation states. So one of the things.

1:07:20 Speaker 1: Very credible threats.

1:07:23 Speaker 5: You can't get any more credible, right? I've got people in. Alphabet agencies, and we're going to be releasing some of those receipts, checking with me every once in a while, making sure I'm all right. I haven't heard from you. Are you all right? You just sent that in. I'm sending that to my top counterintelligence guy right now. Are you going to be okay? Okay. That's the shit that was going on that you didn't hear from Tim. You heard some complete bullshit story. And keep in mind, I've never talked to Tim.

1:07:47 Speaker 5: I've never met fucking Tim. But my point of this question is, you know, do I feel, you know, at risk? Is that... They ended up getting a hold of my phone number, right? As you would think any adversary state could be. We just saw today the report that they hacked into the Senate, the Department of Justice. A good team of the top guys can get into stuff. They had my name. They had my full name. They didn't really know what I looked like, but there's ways to kind of dance around that. And that's why I pretty much took everything off of anywhere you can find, you know, even when the three letter agencies reached out to me, they were like, damn, it's hard to find anything about you on the internet.

1:08:28 Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, exactly. That was the whole point.

1:08:32 Speaker 2: Right.

1:08:33 Speaker 5: So what it became is change your appearance. I mean, I had to go through fucking classes on stuff like, you know, Hey, they don't just, uh, wait, really?

1:08:42 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:08:43 Speaker 5: They don't just send someone over to your house to shoot you in the back of the head. Now I know that's graphic and I know that's happened, but it's like, The next time you go check the mailbox or you open your front gate, you won't see the nerve agent that's on it. you know that's how they.

1:08:55 Speaker 1: Do stuff right exactly.

1:08:57 Speaker 5: Whoever did it will be on a plane back home and they're gone so right there was a lot of worries is what there was it wasn't so much that i was living in fair it was like you're trying to think three steps ahead it's kind of like a bad scenario again to mention but like if you're a germaphobe you're worried about fucking touching everything Breathing shit in. Gene had experience with that. There's just a lot going on. So what it came down to is, you know, like me and Gene and some of these other guys that do this shit for a living and deal with threats for a living every day is you have to find this weird place where you're just okay with it.

1:09:35 Speaker 1: Right. Where you can't stop living because of Yeah, so how the fuck do you deal with the family?

1:09:41 Speaker 5: You just kind of do it. Gene's giving me a lot of tips, but anyone that's around me or Gene thinks these are two guys that crack a lot of jokes, but fuck, someone's threatening to kill them and wipe them off the face of the earth. It's just life. So, I mean, you know, when some of these agencies reached out to me, they've asked me not to identify them because they watch every podcast and every tweet I do, and some I might get along with decently, so I won't, but that's something they continually ask me.

1:10:07 Speaker 5: do you feel safe or not right now?

1:10:09 Speaker 1: Okay.

1:10:09 Speaker 5: So it is what it is. Um, one thing I will say on that is that the people that have got rolled by the ISA and other things, you know, I don't want, I'm not trying to put a hit on them, but like, uh, us whole country boys don't really roll over as easy. And I think they're finding that out because everywhere I'm at, they're like, yeah, you're an uncharted territory. No one's ever got to this point or no one's ever done this before. And I always tell them the same thing. Like, Like Gene said, if it was money, I ran out of money.

1:10:40 Speaker 5: You know what I mean? That wasn't enough. So I think they're kind of like, what the fuck is it going to take to get this guy to fold finally? So I've seen it all. Life goes on.

1:10:53 Speaker 1: Are you at a point where you would be willing to publicly demonstrate the technology?

1:11:01 Speaker 5: We are at a point. One of the things... you will continually hear me saying, people are probably sick of it, is you have to have a strategic plan. I know everybody's like, yeah, just drop it on the internet like Snowden and whatnot. We saw what happened, right? And I just don't feel like, God bless the UFO community, you guys are going to show up on horseback and tie ropes to the bars and pull the wall of the jail cell down. Fort Leavenworth may not be as easy to get into to get me out as you think.

1:11:33 Speaker 5: Now, on Gene's side, Gene has said it's three hot meals a day and you play cards all day long. So leave his ass in there. He don't seem to fucking he's not bothered by it.

1:11:42 Speaker 1: But yeah, right.

1:11:44 Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who went to jail, especially federal prison, and they had a wonderful time.

1:11:50 Speaker 5: They came back.

1:11:51 Speaker 2: They came back healthier. One guy we used to say he wasn't arrested. He was rescued. He came back like 60 pounds lighter in shape.

1:11:59 Speaker 5: The whole deal.

1:12:03 Speaker 4: Legally speaking, I was going to recommend a different strategy for you guys.

1:12:11 Speaker 5: Look, yeah, no one's a lawyer representing me today. And let's just say I've got an angel on one shoulder and maybe the devil on the other with the legal advice.

1:12:22 Speaker 1: I hope I am. Yeah, I was going to say, I hope I'm not either.

1:12:27 Speaker 5: But yeah, it's... So here it comes.

1:12:31 Speaker 1: Right.

1:12:31 Speaker 5: That's what everybody's tuned in for. Here comes this strategic plan. I mean, even though I'm fighting the law, even though you've got people that are doing all sorts of things to me, some of you don't even know. Tim Phillips is not necessarily the worst. Not that this is a direct comparison, obviously, but, you know, Dave mentioned what it's like to try and, you know, fight the government. It is amazing how. Even rules like basically slander don't work if someone's a government employee. It's damn near impossible to try and sue them.

1:13:01 Speaker 5: So this is the next step. And the next step is going to be we're going to start showing receipts, really, really important receipts of what's actually going on. A lot of agencies. Who's telling you the truth? Who's not? These have all been done in a way that they've already been verified. So again, I'm not much of a person that likes to tell stories. A story is just a story unless you can prove it. And that's going to be the first rollout where you're going to know who's really on your side, who's not, who's been lying through their teeth.

1:13:37 Speaker 5: And such as my story with Tim Phillips is about ready to go front page through I think most of the world. And the continuing steps through that.

1:13:47 Speaker 2: Will be.

1:13:49 Speaker 5: What we're going to push is, you know, the breakout of this technology. Now, it's going to be tricky. I can't say a whole lot because then you show your cards. But for people to be able to see things and see how things operate, you know, we've talked about the tic-tac, right? What's it going to do? Everybody says, and by the way, you'd be right. It's going to eliminate the whole oil and gas world for power sources. That's not even the half of it. You know, think more material science and engineering, right?

1:14:21 Speaker 5: What's the big thing about data centers right now? Nobody wants keeping them cool. Well, the same material that can keep cool when it's operating the Tic Tac. What about if you threw that into a data center, right? The world's changed. You know, I've continually told people that. So we are walking a line. You know, I've already been contacted by the feds, but it's the feds I get along with somewhat. And, you know, just that they were a bit concerned about my recent post. uh, on X. And, um, we talked that through, right?

1:14:52 Speaker 5: We're, we're okay legally. And then there's a difference where if you cross that line, your house gets raided. It doesn't mean you broke a law. It doesn't mean they're going to find anything. They'd know they wouldn't.

1:15:02 Speaker 1: Right.

1:15:02 Speaker 5: But that's the intimidation factor. So we are working through things. Answers are coming, um, in about two weeks from today. Cause we're live. You're going to get an announcement. That announcement will have my full name and identity on it. And things are going to make a whole lot of fucking sense when you find that out. There will be a full picture that's going to make a lot more sense than you've been hearing. A lot more sense of why I got called in to the SCIF over years. Keep in mind, you don't even know about some of the secret meetings that went down and exchanges of materials and things.

1:15:42 Speaker 5: Right.

1:15:43 Speaker 2: Right.

1:15:44 Speaker 5: That's the first point because I know everybody's like, Oh, just drop it, release it, put it on the internet. That's not how things work. You can't prove things that way, you know? So the first thing's going to be, we're going to put on a little presentation, just going to leave it at that. Right. Um, when we send up some of our equipment in the air, we usually call them like vultures, right? The vultures in this case, they won't be, they're going to be black swans. I hate to speak in riddles, but, uh, There's technology out there.

1:16:17 Speaker 5: People should know about, and we're going to start that process. It's going to be more of a surprise process rather than a, Hey guys, I'm putting on this sort of thing, but just so everybody knows you'll get an exact date and time when you get my identity in about two weeks. But, uh, we are going to go ahead and tell people in fairness that it's going to be Colorado and it's going to be in October. You just going to have to kind of wait till then. But, um, We've got everything going. Every blowtorch is going.

1:16:47 Speaker 5: We've been preparing for this for years and that's the next step. So what will happen between now and then? I do want to just say you should expect hell. You know, when I went into Arrow, the SCIF, when I was talking to him on the phone beforehand, one of the things I said was any legal paper that I have to sign or any sort of agreement, send it to me early.

1:17:11 Speaker 2: Right.

1:17:11 Speaker 5: So I can get an attorney to look for it. Nothing ever came. I show up and I've got people with me. We've paid all this fucking money, all these hotels. And they were like, you have to sign this NDA or you can't go in. Why didn't you send this to me? Like I said, you know. And as everyone's told me and I've got it documented, they said, oh, no, you're covered under whistleblower. And it wasn't that I didn't know as a government employee, I wasn't. It's that there's so many fucking things on the back of that form that's like.

1:17:39 Speaker 5: well, this whistleblower act of this year, you know what I mean? You're just like, okay, well, I'm not going to be able to read this and know. So you sign it and you say, all right. They said I was covered. The old famous words. Definitely don't ever go in anywhere without an attorney. Then you get into the skiff and then you have a fucking verbal one. Then they read you a second one and you have to agree verbally. You don't even have a signature to bring back. So how fucking shady is that? You know, like the record of a verbal.

1:18:10 Speaker 5: It's just my word versus yours because we're in a skiff. So they can't record it. You can't have electronics in there.

1:18:16 Speaker 1: Right, right.

1:18:18 Speaker 5: The whole fucking thing is a scheme.

1:18:20 Speaker 4: Well, they're legally entrapping you on top of all that.

1:18:23 Speaker 5: Nailed it, Dave.

1:18:24 Speaker 1: Yep, yep.

1:18:25 Speaker 5: So again, why would you not have the paper version in the fucking skiff? I mean, just come on, guys. I mean, get serious here.

1:18:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

1:18:35 Speaker 1: I'll definitely, you know, keep everyone up to date on when you guys are going to do that. And again, I'll definitely be there covering that. So, you know, I.

1:18:47 Speaker 5: Will be there. We'll be people as we go. I mean, again, I got to tell people I know everybody's like, why won't you tell us? You see what we deal with, right? You see what the consequences are. And, you know, that was where I wanted to go with that story real fast was that. one of the other things I covered before I walked in, Hey, no offense to the community. Cause I didn't know anybody back then. Not that it's changed much, but, uh, I was like, it's my identity going to be released. Cause I don't want to be right.

1:19:15 Speaker 5: I've never been in this to be some sort of public figure. Never, never wanted to go on a speaking tour. And they're like, Nope, it won't. And I was like, really? Well, what if somebody foys it? And the next thing I know my kids schools, like you're the dad that, thinks ufos are real look guys i get it but like that's really that was my honest question so and it may offend some people and they were like no everything in here cannot be foiled and i said there's no fucking way what are you talking about and they were like listen the attorneys came in and they sat down right over there and they pointed to a fucking table and they said we wrote the law there's already a foil law what fucking law We wrote the law with the attorneys to make sure no one can fucking FOIA anything here.

1:20:02 Speaker 5: They said we get FOIA requests every day. They said it's on the system, but it's not. So it's on the security, the top secret, all that stuff, but it's not. The only people that can get into the system is the people right now you're talking to in this room. So even if a FOIA person wanted to look, they can't get into the system. So basically what they're saying is they were just answering back, nope, don't got it. Now look, whether you like David Grush or not, he came out and he got pretty public and all of a sudden this place, who I would agree, everybody was saying you can't get anything out of him,

1:20:40 Speaker 5: had a folder ready to go and ate him in a nice light. Sure, there's one ready to go for me. So Foil and Whistle Mike, I'm sure they got something ready to go. It says I'm a bum extortion. This is going to get ugly. I just want people to understand.

1:21:01 Speaker 1: Is he skipping for anyone else?

1:21:02 Speaker 5: Stick with us. We'll explain as we go.

1:21:08 Speaker 1: You were skipping there a little, Mike.

1:21:10 Speaker 2: Sorry.

1:21:10 Speaker 5: But yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell people.

1:21:12 Speaker 1: All right.

1:21:13 Speaker 5: Well, whoever's watching or jumping on. The feds can let us talk a little bit. Just call me afterwards.

1:21:21 Speaker 1: Right, right. Yeah, my NSA guy is always fucking, Steve, come on!

1:21:26 Speaker 4: Um....

1:21:28 Speaker 1: Just enjoy the show for once uh sorry steve's always listening um have you ever done like a bug sweep in your.

1:21:38 Speaker 5: Home yeah yeah yeah there are a lot of things that go on right like any security you don't want to say a whole lot but let's just say we're very well um surveilled um again you don't want to sound like a mad crazy person or maybe i do but um there are some trees trend. There are some 50 caliber, uh, sites around the property. If I need to aim, um, and keep in mind, I'm a fucking drone guy. So, um, you ain't seen shit like I got, uh, you know, so, and I don't have to control it. So just leave it with that.

1:22:15 Speaker 5: So that's not the, the big worry. The worry is, and they kind of know this, they got to come after me from the government angle, uh, like they have and it's not working. So, they're also in uncharted waters. You know what I mean?

1:22:30 Speaker 1: Right.

1:22:30 Speaker 5: They're learning from this. I mean, people have got to understand that Susan Goff, you know, if you want to know about her, right, read the paper she wrote on essentially saying, you know, no, no campaign can be successful without essentially a campaign that deceives people, you know, the whole psychology point of it. So none of these people are honest. These are the people that are going to release the folders on me. I'm sure everybody just stick with us. we'll get through this. They know what's coming.

1:22:59 Speaker 5: Um, they're not happy about it legally. They can't find someone to tell me that I can't, but that doesn't mean they're happy about it. So, you know, here we go.

1:23:11 Speaker 1: Right. Um, and now that I, I, someone brought up, you brought up the Tic Tac, someone brought up the Tic Tac in the, the, the comments earlier. Um, I can't remember if we had talked about this, but are you under the guise or the thought process that, and please, guys, everyone can jump in now at this point. Are you under the guise that the Tic Tac was man-made?

1:23:39 Speaker 5: Well, you know, again, it was like that think thing. And again, you know, I make my wife happy and I say I try not to think, right? Like you got to have some data, you know what I mean? I feel like everybody's just kind of shooting off and that's fine.

1:23:50 Speaker 1: Right.

1:23:50 Speaker 5: We're all just sitting around hanging out, talking and there's expertise in this, but like that was the big thing in the sense skiff. That's the big thing in the arrow skiff arrow knew that if they could kill that off, that it would basically end. That was their philosophy, right? What do you guys got left? If we kill off the whole tick deck thing. So what'd they try and do? The data's lost, right? Oh, you know, DARPA, you know, the wasp, they tried every fucking thing they could to get that, you know, done.

1:24:17 Speaker 5: The Senate did an honest investigation. Doesn't mean they told you the results, whether you like AOC or not. And I don't know how the fuck she knew this, but she said she felt like in the Senate they got disclosure. They did. And what it comes down to is when you're tracking these things, you're pulling data, how does it work? How does it fly? What is the point of it? There are things you can figure out. And this is one of the reasons why anybody that's in this that's legit doesn't always give their exact information public because people say what day did you see it what time do you see it if you have these you start plotting them in the first part of radar is not a big disc at the sky it's an algorithm right so if you can gather all these things from data links and what equipment has to be there and where it has to be you can start figuring out where it's going to be that's how they shot down the first f117 right so with that said what we gave them And they asked us to work on that case.

1:25:19 Speaker 3: That's not me.

1:25:19 Speaker 5: There's no police dogs. But what we gave them was the information they needed to go back and get verified that's not a public record. And they did tell us that it was verified. And the question that we got asked was many. But one of the questions we got asked was, do you think that's a real satellite? Or do you think there's something else on it? And we told them, how the fuck are we going to know that?

1:25:44 Speaker 2: Right.

1:25:44 Speaker 5: You know what I mean? How am I going to know that? So, yeah, it's bullshit. I would say it's busted whether you like it or not. The tic-tac, I'm just telling you, it matches up 100% with what we know and what would have to be there. The whole what was in the water with Fravor. I know he disagrees with me, but I'm just telling you, they went back and pulled the record, which is the benefit of SSCI over the UAP caucus.

1:26:06 Speaker 1: That would essentially mean And could that be why guys like Rubio have kind of dropped off?

1:26:16 Speaker 5: Exactly why. Where is the Senate, guys? They started there.

1:26:21 Speaker 2: Right.

1:26:21 Speaker 1: Where did the Senate go?

1:26:22 Speaker 5: You know, another thing I pointed to people is I told them I said Cotton hates fucking UAPs. Cotton's the chairman now. This isn't a Republican Democrat thing. But if you look at the last interview, again, with Laszlo, with Gillibrand, who's never returned a call to apologize over what fucking Tim Phillips did. She says, oh, no, UAP now means drones. And she was asked, why did you change language? And she says she thinks it was Senator Cotton. Yeah, it's over, guys. They're not looking for any aliens or NHI in the sky.

1:26:56 Speaker 5: It's all fucking drones. They know what the data links say. If there's something in the sky, you're not going to find it through the Senate because the Senate's convinced, you know, what my information is, which is you got a lot of adversaries. You got a lot of programs not briefed to you, and they're willing to close down the book on that. Where are they? I mean, I think they've shown exactly what I said.

1:27:19 Speaker 1: So you think that, okay, so to summarize that for everyone, what he's saying is that's why guys like Marco Rubio and Kirsten Gillibrand and people in the Senate who would seem to be doggedly interested in the subject have kind of just moved on.

1:27:38 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's further than that. What did Rubio just say? He handed his folder over to Stephen Miller. Well, guess what, guys? You may hate me for it. I didn't put it in there, but guess what was in that folder? He got briefed on all my stuff. I know that he did. Trust me. Let's just put it that way. I've been in the skiff with a lot of senators. It wasn't my intention, but when you deal with these people, you have to go in with actual facts and evidence. They don't want stories. And kind of like when the three-letter agencies were contacting me, they were like, will you please talk to us?

1:28:13 Speaker 5: We don't even know what you said. We can't get your folder from Arrow. They won't send it to us. But we do know that you were in the skiff for several years, and we know that no one's getting a meeting with sitting senators without anything, and we sure as hell know they weren't calling you back unless what you had was checking out, right? That same folder is with Stephen Miller, and if Stephen Miller looks at it and he doesn't want to look at the aliens and only says– whistling Mike saying it's all drones, here we are.

1:28:40 Speaker 4: Well, like last week, Mike, when we were watching the videos from the fifth drop, right? And you were laughing about him and saying, if you brought this into a skiff, you would never get back in. They would kick you out in a matter of seconds and you would never get back in the door because they are that bad.

1:28:56 Speaker 5: Yeah, Dave Nelda, I'm telling you, if you would bring in any of those videos that everybody's like, oh, this is the big one, Trench 5. Yeah, they would throw your ass out. Like literally have you leave. The centers would get up and walk off. You would not be invited back. So the shit we're getting is so bad. Dave, you know me and you've talked about this. This is not the stuff that we need to see, even if it's drones. This is bad, even as drones and balloons. I mean, come on.

1:29:24 Speaker 2: I think ultimately these people who have dropped off and seemingly become disinterested with the subject have seen that this is more about some of the stuff we've discussed before. This is more about democratizing technology opportunities in the federal contracting space and you know, these key figures are out here storytelling, trying to stir up public sentiment for, you know, ultimately getting them to promote a legislative agenda that has to do with federal contracting and nothing to do with the truth or nothing to do with UFOs or aliens.

1:30:10 Speaker 5: And I've got something on my list that that's a lead into Tyrofest, and that is that, you know, when we talk to these people and we tell them what's wrong, one of the things that we get back from some of their staff of why did we not do this? We just told you Langley sitting duck. We just told you the fucking presidential limo, you know, whole fucking cruisers, the air force one Marine, they're all sitting ducks. Why are you not putting our system in? And we always hear the same thing back. Such and such Senator does not want to be the one that has to admit that our skies are unprotected.

1:30:43 Speaker 5: They don't want to be the one that has to admit over New Jersey, the fucking Chinese are flying. you know, aircraft that has payload on it. We don't want to admit that. Well, they kind of did it Langley, right? Senator Wicker went on 60 minutes and said, ah, we couldn't track him. We couldn't bring him down.

1:31:00 Speaker 2: Right.

1:31:00 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:31:00 Speaker 5: They don't want to fucking lose election because you're spending what the new budget was, was requested. They haven't got it yet, but a trillion and a half dollars. And you still can't keep the fucking drones out of the sky. So it's like, but Jean said, until something happens and they're all going to be like, oh my God, we didn't see that coming. And I know that because we briefed senators.

1:31:21 Speaker 1: Well, this conversation is proof that they did know.

1:31:24 Speaker 5: We briefed senators, the senators that wrote the legislation that said that they're now going to allow the bases to shoot down drones. We already briefed them and said we know what these drones look like when they come down. We know what the plan is, just like we did at Langley, and they're going to have ordinance. So you're going to have a small swarm show up. You're going to take the first shot at the first drone, and the second, third, and fourth one with a small payload is going to go at your fuel center.

1:31:50 Speaker 5: your daycare system, or your mess hall, and it's going to kill people, and it's going to cause a big fucking explosion, and the next day's headline is going to say, Keystone cop shot down one drone, blew up a fucking building, killed three people. They still wrote the legislation. They're still clapping for themselves, saying, we found the answer. They know it's not the fucking answer, but this is how politics work, guys. It's a sad fucking state.

1:32:15 Speaker 1: Daycare?

1:32:17 Speaker 5: If you've been to a base and Jean, I'll let you talk more about this. There's all, it's like a small city, you know.

1:32:24 Speaker 1: I've been on all this.

1:32:25 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:32:25 Speaker 5: Yeah.

1:32:26 Speaker 1: I mean, but that's, that, that would be an, that would be a target.

1:32:32 Speaker 5: Like anything that is going to have people or the most damage, like a fuel Depot will be a target because if you take that step of shooting down their technology, then it's kind of the eye for the eye. What will immediately happen the next day? That order that says any base can shoot down a drone will be removed immediately.

1:32:53 Speaker 2: I mean, if you think about it, if something's flying at 2 a.m. and they take the shot at it and Mike's scenario kind of plays out, right? Well, if the counter, you know, if the counter assault, let's say, of the drones was purely... you know, other office buildings or, you know, the fuel depot alone or something like that, they'll just say, oh, we shot the thing down, you know, and it went into, you know, we had some other building damage and things like that.

1:33:28 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:33:29 Speaker 2: You know, something drops on a facility that is, you know, crucial to the community that lives there. people are going to get more nervous. They're going to ask questions. They're going to, you know, feel it a lot more.

1:33:49 Speaker 5: What would happen if we didn't shoot it down? We covered one of these cases and we did time. We did day where like it flow over the nuclear facility and just left. And they're going to say, well, shit, let it just leave. Then look at what you had cost because you shot at it. That's the state of things.

1:34:07 Speaker 1: Well, Well, okay, I guess what I'm confused at here is your stance on the Tic Tac and then our capabilities. Are you insinuating that A, the Tic Tac is man-made, and B, is also an adversary? Or is it the Tic Tac is man-made and it's ours? And if it's ours, why are we so far behind? if that's what we got cooking. Something that could drop from the SPY-1 as a limit of 80,000 feet, right, at the space line, the line of space. So it could have been coming from higher, we don't know, but a minimum of drop, if you're to believe what has been said by guys like Kevin Day.

1:34:58 Speaker 3: Right.

1:34:59 Speaker 5: Let me jump in, too, with asking all three of you a question. What's the fastest aircraft we have in the U.S. military? Or did have, let's put it that way.

1:35:08 Speaker 1: The fastest?

1:35:10 Speaker 5: The SR-71. The SR-71. What decade are we talking about?

1:35:14 Speaker 2: This is 60, right?

1:35:18 Speaker 5: We don't know what the fuck these guys got. In their last audit, they said that even if we could find the money, which is trillions missing over all the audit years, we couldn't tell you where it went because it's all code names and stuff. We couldn't tell you what it was spent on. And we're still saying the SR-71. You know, another good example is the Osama bin Laden raid. We only saw the helicopter because unfortunately it went down.

1:35:40 Speaker 1: Went down, yeah.

1:35:42 Speaker 5: And they tried to destruct it so that basically the enemy couldn't get it, but the Telfin got left. And that, as we know now from the guy that was the actual trigger man that took Osama out, you know, there's debates in that story.

1:35:57 Speaker 1: Actually, that is, not to cut you off here, but I was actually just talking to Gene about that, I think. But this has been resurfacing. There's a huge debate in the special forces.

1:36:09 Speaker 5: There's a debate brewing. But for the sake of this conversation, I guess.

1:36:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll skip that.

1:36:13 Speaker 5: He got interviewed on Tucker Carlson and he let out some information about the helicopter. Not anything classified, but they basically said, how quiet is it?

1:36:21 Speaker 1: Right.

1:36:22 Speaker 5: He was like, quiet, real quiet. Now, keep in mind, you're launching a raid over people who essentially have like open windows in their house in the middle of the night. How fucking quiet was that thing that nobody heard it? I mean, we're talking about some crazy shit. So anyway, you get into that and then you look through the tens of billions of dollars since then. That was a long time ago, decades, that we've spent on helicopters. How come all the tens of billions of dollars we spent on helicopters don't have the newest technology that was back in the early 2000s?

1:36:52 Speaker 5: It's just the way this system works, brother. It's bullshit, but it's just, So the fact that we're not using it is not it. I got asked yesterday going through the podcast with Project Infinity, right?

1:37:08 Speaker 1: No, Project Unity.

1:37:10 Speaker 2: Unity.

1:37:11 Speaker 5: Oh, I'm sorry.

1:37:12 Speaker 1: Unity.

1:37:12 Speaker 5: I got you covered. I appreciate that because I got too much in my head to cover today.

1:37:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jay Anderson's Project Unity. Great episode.

1:37:20 Speaker 5: Jay and I, we were talking about it, and we kind of came to a certain point where it was like, you know, just the government running the way the government work. And I did kind of lose my track of mind there, but it's just the point that like, you don't, just because we have it, we don't have to use it, right? And one of the things I said to him is, is there's a second part of the Nimitz story that's not exactly like chapter two. You know, I talked about the deployment where they were going. It's not like if you're like, oh, where were they going?

1:37:48 Speaker 5: There's the answer. It's not that necessarily easy of a line. But if you knew what was connected to that, the whole reason why the Tic Tac which there was actually two generations there, one with lights that Voorhees was looking at with binoculars floating off the ship bow, and the first, the Tic Tac, which doesn't have lights, there was a reason why they had to run it to figure out whether or not you could pick it up. So there's always more to these sort of stories. So then it becomes the question the Senate asked, well, how much did this thing cost?

1:38:20 Speaker 5: you know, how would you build it? Keep in mind, we've got a team of aerospace guys that does this, right? This is what they did their whole life before they retired. So we came up with what it would cost and, you know, the senators were like well they're not doing that on their own budget there's got to be a customer right they're not spending that sort of money we told them how many team members it would take to build it so they can kind of have an idea of the process and what would go into this and then we got into the point where it was like you know how would you change it how would you fix it which is all the stuff uh that they had us in there for.

1:38:52 Speaker 5: But like the, the second part of that story has to do with their other question, which was, has it ever been used in any missions?

1:39:01 Speaker 5: Surely it's been used at least once.

1:39:03 Speaker 4: Right.

1:39:04 Speaker 5: And there is an answer. And we gave that to him. And that's how it kind of ties into the Tic Tac incident where there was an actual mission adversaries, bad guys, not just a simulation where there's no, There's no ordinance to shoot back. So there's another part to that story that people don't know. And that's why it doesn't make a lot of sense to folks.

1:39:36 Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.

1:39:37 Speaker 5: Interesting.

1:39:38 Speaker 1: So I guess I'm still not clear.

1:39:44 Speaker 5: The Tic Tac technology is ours as all technology expected to be stole, expected to be copied. One of the things we're talking about with Jay as well, as we were saying, listen, one of the things that Fravor says only, I think one of his interviews, you know, it's like one of the things where it's usually just a broken record because then he gets bored by it. He said, talking the same story, the same questions as he said, we knew that the Chinese were there with their spy satellites watching us. So when you go into things like saber rattling, what can you get with a satellite?

1:40:11 Speaker 5: What can you not? We can get some good images, not, not a whole lot else back then, but imagine as a Chinese spy satellite, seeing what the fuck the Tic Tac did in performance. You want to know why they're not invading Taiwan? You want to know why we got drones flying over sensitive military bases? Because they fucking know what we have. And that's a good way to tell somebody.

1:40:32 Speaker 1: But that's also a double-edged sword, right?

1:40:35 Speaker 5: It's a double-edged sword, but it's called saber-addling. We got a name for it. Keep in mind, about the time that also came out, Russia made an announcement. Russia's announcement was, we have a, basically a missile attached to a satellite.

1:40:49 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:40:50 Speaker 5: It's going to come down so fast. You can't shoot it down. All of a sudden, everybody's talking their best, you know, game. Oh, nobody tied it together, but trust me.

1:40:59 Speaker 1: There's a lot more chest beaten.

1:41:02 Speaker 5: Everybody's chest beat and saying, you better not fuck with us. Cause you know, you better not fuck with us either. So this is kind of like back in the cold war where everybody's trying to, you know, do what they can to keep the guy from just shooting. So, There's a lot to this story, a lot to this chess game. This is why me and Gene go on 10-hour rides one way and talk the whole time.

1:41:22 Speaker 1: There's a lot going on here. I've been in the car with Gene for many hours, and he is one of the few people that I could... You don't even realize... Hours have gone by because you're laughing so hard.

1:41:39 Speaker 5: Just so I finish that, Ty, the Chinese do not have, nor does any country have as good as what we have. We see that, right? They can make knockoffs. They can try and reverse engineer stuff. That's a lot easier than it sounds. Trust me.

1:41:51 Speaker 2: We know.

1:41:53 Speaker 5: But what do you want? Then you want the kill pill. And the kill pill is if you can track it with the radar or you can buy a weapon system that shoots us down, which is where we kind of come in. you've just eliminated the need to actually match that threat of technology. So that's the chess game we're in.

1:42:10 Speaker 4: So like last week, I think like you, we talked about the Tic Tac, you thought it was a blue on blue with the added element of Chinese observation going on at like the same time. Is that, is that correct?

1:42:21 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:42:23 Speaker 5: Yep. I mean, again, you know, when, these are some of the conversations that need to happen. Kind of like the one I was just talking to Ty, there's even one that's even more extreme than that, but you go back and you look, knowing how we think now and you start tying together everybody's statements and you say like, oh Jesus, that's kind of crazy. If China saw that and now they're saying this and now Russia knows and now Russia's saying this, that kind of all goes together.

1:42:49 Speaker 1: Well, what I'm a little bit concerned about is that it seems that we need to, A, harden our infrastructure. and B, what is the word I'm looking for? Institute anti-drone and anti-shoot down technology that we have at our nuclear facilities and sensitive facilities that if these things get too close, if they're deemed like an actual threat, because what now I'm worried about is, well, if someone can just fly a drone no one asked to even invasion becomes something from the sky it's not boots on the ground it's robots in the sky descending and blowing shit.

1:43:43 Speaker 5: Up and you got it well I mean let's just look at it.

1:43:50 Speaker 2: He's early detection right so you've got a ham system that is able to detect these things from a launch point And you've got to have resources. You've got to have two things that happen at the same time. You have to have resources deployed in order to intercept them, whatever that looks like, because what you don't want to do is actually shoot it down over the facility itself.

1:44:17 Speaker 1: Sorry, this looks trippy as fuck.

1:44:21 Speaker 2: And the second part of that is you want to provide advanced notification to the facility itself. or to facilities that could potentially be within target areas so that they can begin shutting down processes and doing things that can, you know, begin to mitigate some of the potential damage that, that, that could happen. You know, if Russia had that kind of notification, you know, or insights into, um, the drones and they weren't just reliant upon, um, an anti-drone system taking it down, they could have very practically instituted emergency shutdown procedures and begin to drain and isolate vessels and things like that so that when it does come back online, you've lost less materials or you've contained a potential explosion smaller than perhaps what it was.

1:45:29 Speaker 5: Yeah, and just to jump in on that, because again, we're talking truth here. I don't have to be so tight-lipped today. We don't have that system that can detect them. You can look all you want on these announcements by these big fucking dollar defense contractors, and they'll say, we shot down 100 of 100 drones. You did. The ones from Walmart. That's how this shit's tested. That's not what fucking China's coming with. They're coming with things that can't be picked up by fucking radar or jammed or anything else.

1:45:58 Speaker 5: And as we told SSAI there, that's not the top of the shit they got in the air. That's not even the top model. So if you can't bring it down, you're stuck.

1:46:07 Speaker 4: Yeah, and Mike, the big concern there is what kind of payload are they carrying, right? I mean, you can't detect them in the first place. So they just slip in with tactical nuke, biological weaponry, who the fuck knows. That's... Doomery, for sure, but it's real.

1:46:24 Speaker 2: It is.

1:46:24 Speaker 5: And again, think there's no life. Go back to the kamikaze stuff, but with no life, you're not just going to crash in a field, right, if you got a payload. Like I was talking earlier, you're going to make sure you take out a target with that payload. This is how the game works. But I just want to stress to people, all these systems that they're claiming that they work great, I am aware of how they test. And what I'm telling you how they test is that Not only can these systems not pick up the adversary's best drones that we know of.

1:46:55 Speaker 5: I won't tell you how some of them came into the hands of these people. But they also can't even pick up the best that we have and we're behind. These systems, there is no system that works right now. It just doesn't. And if you just look at the design, you got to wonder how dumb people must be to believe this. Because it's like we're going to drive in this big fucking deuce, you know, with the system on the back. Okay, genius. Well, what if it comes from the front of the cab? You're going to shine it through there?

1:47:23 Speaker 5: What if they come in off the ground a foot up? You can't even, you have no range for that. You'd be shooting your truck in the whole 360. Like, you don't think these guys have figured out let's run, run from the top and three from the bottom and you can't swivel any of those ways?

1:47:37 Speaker 2: The saddest thing about this is that the way the government's responded to Mike and the way the government's responded to this and so many other things. they're going to let the disaster happen so that they can all take to the steps and they can all say, and they can throw billions of more dollars at it and create new funding and, and they can fund all of their pet projects and all of their friends and everybody in their districts and, and, and the.

1:48:09 Speaker 5: Rest of it.

1:48:12 Speaker 1: Coming from you guys, is there a, Is there, and this is probably going to be a very grim answer no matter which way is there a scenario that if it were to happen that there is an acceptable loss of life like there's a where they can answer that like like you know, I hate the sounds like dirty even saying it, but you.

1:48:42 Speaker 5: Know what I mean? I think he's rare. We know what you mean.

1:48:46 Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

1:48:47 Speaker 2: No, I mean, I mean, you know, this is what you're talking about. That is, that is, you know, basic risk management insurance. You know, that is what these industries do. That's what, you know, I did in the oil and gas industry to, to a degree, you know, yes there is a there is a number for every human life um you know in any number of scenarios that are that are being planned out and so you know there are acceptable losses um and there's listen and and they don't do just do it when it comes to dealing with people's lives they do it with even regulatory fines and things like that.

1:49:36 Speaker 2: I've seen situations where companies are out of compliance, that something is regulatorily mandated, and there's a fine of $ 25, 000 per day, per offense, when you are out of compliance. And it's just cheaper for them to pay the fine than it.

1:49:59 Speaker 1: Is to actually invest in the change.

1:50:02 Speaker 2: So, yeah, in the same way, is there an acceptable target? Is there an acceptable, you know, if they've got to make a choice between a couple of things or which one are they going to defend? And yeah, absolutely. You know.

1:50:18 Speaker 1: Like say they would let let the disaster happen because they've deemed it that it's it's not enough of a loss where.

1:50:29 Speaker 2: It's either not enough of a loss or it's too politically risky to mitigate it up front. Or it creates an even better opportunity. I mean, you know, again, I know you've had lots of 9-11 related people on and things like that. But, you know, when we talk about, you know, Black Swan events and things like that. The idea of planes being hijacked and flown into buildings was certainly absolutely thought of. It wasn't an unknown thing, but there just wasn't enough information available at the time to justify a major industrial change like that.

1:51:26 Speaker 2: That the government was going to mandate, oh, you have to secure the cockpit doors with the doors.

1:51:34 Speaker 1: Well, think about all the TSA changes that happened too.

1:51:38 Speaker 2: Right. So when– before 9-11, when they're sitting down with industry and they're like, well, we have some intel or our analysts and this is a vulnerability, the airlines push back and they're like– one of the greatest ones was– I remember there was an oil refinery and we had specific intelligence that it was going to be targeted for a bombing, a car bombing. And we said, we want to deploy canines to the facility or here's the company. It's a private canine company. Call them, have them come out and provide canine through these periods and this and that.

1:52:25 Speaker 2: And the oil refinery leadership came back and said, well, we, we, we put it on the risk matrix, which tells you likelihood and probability, right? And though it's a high consequence event, it is low probability and low likelihood because it has never happened before. So we're not going to spend the money on having dogs at the gate. Hmm. I mean, and that was even with intelligence that said somebody's coming, they still go that. So, so yeah, absolutely. There's that's, that's how, that's how it works.

1:53:05 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's a reason I asked and it's a continuation of a question that I've asked before.

1:53:09 Speaker 4: And to Jean's point, look at Pearl Harbor. I mean, there's a great example of something where they just kind of knew what was going to happen or had a really good idea. It was going to happen, but the, The idea that the loss of life inherent in that was, I don't want to say necessary, but an acceptable risk in order to get us into the war.

1:53:29 Speaker 1: Into the war, yeah.

1:53:32 Speaker 2: And you do it every day. You just bought a new car. Did you buy the extended warranty and the

1:53:38 Speaker 2: undercarriage coating? Or did you take the risk that you're not going to be affected by that? Did you buy a car shield that covers the you know, for another 200 bucks a month that covers the thing. No, you probably didn't because you're, you're willing to take that risk that it won't happen.

1:53:57 Speaker 4: Like out here in California. I mean, we're not getting earthquake insurance on our house because the deductible is worth more than the fucking house is. So why am I going to, why am I going to insure against this event that it's like, well, if it happens, I'm out of this anyway.

1:54:11 Speaker 5: So, yeah.

1:54:12 Speaker 1: So pulling this back to, I guess, the UFO stuff and the non-human as we wrap up. When talking about the original material, I don't want you to go too far because I know that there's obviously some proprietary information, but a lot of people have speculated that and other people have been told by certain people in government that sound, light, and frequency seem to be the keys to unlocking something, whether it's the next step in technology or the next step in evolution or all of the above. With the technology that you retrieved or came across or have seen,

1:55:12 Speaker 1: is there any validity to that?

1:55:17 Speaker 5: Well, Ty, that's a short answer. So I want to cover one bit longer answer as I know we're wrapping up. But that last question, I want to throw a little bit of knowledge in on it. Because this is what I do for a living, right? I'm no angel. But to keep in mind, I'm basically, you know, we call a defense contractor. That's not what we are. No one is. That's the PR sort of way of putting it out. I mean, you know, we develop systems that The nicest way to say it is eliminate the enemy or the threat as quickly as possible, usually as cheaply as possible, and usually as widely as possible.

1:55:58 Speaker 5: So we look at things like how to kill people, and it's always supposed to be the bad guy, right? So with that said, you look at it the other way around, right? Let me tell people what's going to happen with the drones. If you look at some of the armed services where they say we had this many instances, look at places like Jersey. If something kicks off anywhere in the world, let's just say Taiwan gets invaded, the war will not be the U.S. versus China, or the war in Taiwan will be here in U.S. borders.

1:56:34 Speaker 5: They've already proved it. You may not know all the details, but they've already proved it. Right now, you can go to Google Maps on every base that there is that we have, There are yellow lines where our aircraft park. We know where everything is going to be parked. Even a terrorist could do this. You can draw a line on Google Maps from point A to point B. You don't even have to use GPS on some of this stuff. You can't be jammed. You will take out every plane, $ 100 million plane with an $ 85 drone that's already here, that's already built, that's already in basements from foreign adversaries living within the U.S. You can't track where the drones are at.

1:57:12 Speaker 5: You won't get a plane out. You won't get a ship out. Once you take a plane out on the runway, well, then you got to try and take off the other way because we put all of our information out. I can tell you how long a plane needs to take off or land based on that information that we publish. So now the runway is no good. There's only a couple of craft that can take off without a runway. So then it becomes a game of you have to stay in the air to stay alive. Guess what? The first thing was we noticed that diversaries were interested in.

1:57:42 Speaker 5: the refuelers. Why do you think that is? Gas station in the sky. We're fucked, guys. We can't fight here. Everything they need to beat us is already here. All the drones are built. That's what's going on right now. That's the importance of this should something happen. It's not just that they're not doing anything. It's because they can't. They can lie to you and let defense contractors say we shouldn't down 100% of the drones we tested against. Give me a fucking break. I know what the truth is.

1:58:15 Speaker 5: So you don't want to have people get up on a stage that are politicians and say, hey, guys, we're fucked, right? Doesn't matter how much money we have. We don't matter if it's a trillion and a half. Look, our systems suck. We need the golden dome, but the golden dome won't bring anything down either. It won't pick up drones like we can pick up drones. It's just, it's inadequate. Keep in mind, like I was talking about the scenario with that, you know, a truck that comes in with the, you know, laser and shoots them down, but it can't shoot down off the ground.

1:58:43 Speaker 5: If you fly under a certain amount of feet, you can't pick them up with the radar anyway, because the trees and buildings are in the way. So just to kind of cover that for people of how bad it is and why you're not being the truth. That's it. Now, the second part of that answer is a real quick one. There is no magic God particle that people are looking for. How you create things in the material science and engineering becomes really incredible. Something that is terrible at one quality, right? Maybe conducting electricity.

1:59:18 Speaker 5: You put it through science, you know, materials.

1:59:21 Speaker 1: Isn't there actually something called the God particle?

1:59:24 Speaker 5: There is, but that's not the key to this, right? And the next thing you know, something that was terrible electricity outperforms everything else we know, okay? So you've got to talk about how things change, and that's one of the reasons other countries are catching us, because not that I'm against OSHA, but they're more primed to be like, let's build something, hook it up to electricity, and see what the fuck happens. And that's kind of how when people say, maybe we discovered something during the bomb testing, right?

1:59:51 Speaker 5: Kind of the same sort of scenario here. So What it becomes is, and Gene's talked about this, you know, even if you look at his list, he talked about comparing his list of materials he compared to the S & P 500. It's not just the secrets of the market where everything's going to change. It's even just the investment market. So the key here is knowing what the materials are. That was a big thing in the Senate skiff. You know, the inside traders, they all know the key now of what's going to essentially build this technology together.

2:00:20 Speaker 5: For the world, but we're not discovering new elements, right? We don't need a special space rock from such and such planet. It's here. They are rare earth minerals and elements, right? But you just got to figure out how to build what you want with it. You know, keep in mind that old scenario of a cell phone, right? Back in the 1800s, we had the same stuff we do today. We weren't building cell phones. It's just that process of technology and money.

2:00:47 Speaker 1: Interesting. Anyone have anything before we wrap up that they wanted to close out or ask?

2:00:58 Speaker 5: Well, I just want to remind people, you know, that was the point of the show today is that each show kind of going to be talking a little bit more, but there's a big one coming. Give it about two weeks, right? You'll know when it's out. Yeah, that'll lead to another thing. Yeah, that'll lead to another thing. We'll probably be on here talking that day anyway. That's going to lead to another thing, and by about the second week of October, you're going to know a lot more than you ever thought you would or you ever have in probably the last 90 years.

2:01:29 Speaker 5: So we're moving forward.

2:01:31 Speaker 1: That's a very big claim.

2:01:34 Speaker 5: Yeah, and again, just.

2:01:36 Speaker 2: For transparency's sake, sorry, Ty, just for transparency's sake, right? Because I know we're always critical of the slow drip, right, and the slow reveal and things like that. But, you know, this is step-by-step, number one, just out of both an abundance of caution and just for the time it takes to have things prepared.

2:02:02 Speaker 1: I was going to say, how do we, because I bet, obviously, the community has been told through various, you know, NGOs and 501c3s and, you know, things like, I hate to say names, but like, Skywatcher.

2:02:20 Speaker 5: Yeah, let's start from names. I get where you're going with that, Ty, but here's the thing, what I just said and why I stand behind it. All those groups were claiming something to do, and I'll say it, with aliens, NHI, some sort of big thing like that. What I'm talking about is just simple. The fucking truth. Literally, for 90 years, you guys have never had the fucking truth, especially dealing with the government about what they know, what they don't know. You may not like the truth, right? But I'm not promising I'm going to have Gene call one in sitting in a lawn chair with his mind.

2:03:00 Speaker 5: That's not a knock against anybody. I'm just saying there is a difference with what we're going to do and the other folks are promising to do. This is not the same. This is not a comparison. But I stand by the promise that you'll know more because just in a couple of the file releases, that'll show you right off the bat who's full of shit and who's not in the government, which, again, the whole community is cheering for some people they shouldn't be. So that already tells me that I'm right on my claim.

2:03:27 Speaker 1: So, again, you're not ruling out the existence of something. You're just saying, here's what I got and here's what I can fill in. You guys need to know this. In order to make an informed.

2:03:43 Speaker 5: You cannot form a plan unless you know the truth, right? We keep trying to have this plan without knowing the truth. You cannot have a plan unless you know what works and what doesn't. UAPDA will never work. Neither will the eminent domain clause. Okay. It just, we've, we've seen, you can't go and find it. Okay. So yeah, what you're going to get is the truth. I hope from there, you can build a formidable plan that will go forward. But as I've told you here, If it's in the sky and, you know, jeans cut with the drones, we can't detect drones.

2:04:16 Speaker 5: You need a system that can. That's what we've offered. That's what we've had elected members briefed on. All they had to do was sign a paper. One elected member actually said, so all these guys need is a signature. And the person that briefed said, yeah, and actually we've been waiting quite some time for you guys on the Hill to start signing these papers. I've discussed a little bit of that today. that particular member didn't want to do it because reelection, he couldn't defend it, that sort of stuff.

2:04:45 Speaker 5: Okay. I'm not going to go into names here, but I'll just say, are these really people that like are pushing this forward and saying, we're going to get the truth because we could have had the fucking truth a couple of years ago. We know if you say NHI is real and the orbs are real, fuck, we don't have to hunt them out.

2:05:02 Speaker 2: Right.

2:05:02 Speaker 5: We'll just bring our system and what's out there. I mean, there's all sorts of possibilities here. So we're covering the forefront of that, which is, What does our technology do? Who's telling the truth? Who's not? And I guarantee that puts you ahead more than you were or have learned in the last 90 years. I stand by that completely.

2:05:20 Speaker 6: And one of my hopes out of this is that it does demonstrate or that I'm able to demonstrate.

2:05:33 Speaker 2: The origins question. So while everything Mike is doing is 100% terrestrially focused as he releases more and I'm able to make more of the comparisons of the things that I've found as it relates. It goes back to that original question. It's almost becomes a live example of what my hope was that Congress would be doing with the things I've brought forward is to say, well, hold on. if this is what we have now, where did this come from? What are the origins of it? And we can, again, go backwards in time and start looking as Mike is taking the very terrestrial and important national security aspect of this forward as well.

2:06:25 Speaker 2: So there's nothing for, or I should say it's a, potentially just as interesting for, you know, the people who are, you know, purely UAP focused. Um, because I think there's, uh, I still question there.

2:06:41 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. This seems like a lot of more of the nuts and bolts, like not to make it a crude analogy, but, um, uh, actually I just had one thing pop into my head. Uh, a lot of technology that works in a passive way. And I actually thought of Eric Hecker specifically, uh, Um, but technology seems to be, in most cases, or almost a lot of cases, a hammer can be used to, right, help you build something or turn it around and it can help you rip something down. Uh, it can be used as a weapon and it also can be used as a tool like to build.

2:07:22 Speaker 1: Um, is the technology that you are working with, is it passive in nature? Or is there some sort of feature where it could be then turned into an active type of system? Or is that asking too much?

2:07:42 Speaker 5: No, it's already active. We've already proved it. They didn't like some of the things we brought in. I know where you're at.

2:07:49 Speaker 1: Okay, I see what you said.

2:07:52 Speaker 5: To kind of get there, all this technology is, that's why you hear the national security thing, right? So if there's certain information we release, well, as we've all said today, that's not our intention, right? So definitely want to clear that up. We're not going to put the United States Army or military members in danger. The problem is the inactions are what's causing that. So What I'm going to tell you, and people may not like it, is I know we have people that say, well, in this country, they're hunting UFOs.

2:08:20 Speaker 5: In this country, they're hunting UFOs. I get it. But none of the bad guys that I've dealt with have ever thought that what they're seeing, including the Tic Tac, was UFOs. Most of the spies, the countries, believe this is our tech. That's how they're hunting it. That's how they're looking for it. So when I tell you things about drones, do you think the Chinese know they can fly in our skies over Langley without getting shot down or jammed? Probably if they did it. Am I really letting out any national security secrets?

2:08:48 Speaker 2: No.

2:08:48 Speaker 5: Am I going to embarrass some politicians? Yeah, I'm going to do that. But it's because we want fucking change. And that's that's the whole point of it. So my particular system, as I've already said, whoever watches this, I can put you on with the funding guy, not our funding guy, an actual guy that deals with government contracts and on your side. And you can sign one fucking paper and we can walk out with this thing solved. And that's what the whole goal of this whole point of thing is, is that we're either going to tell people and we're going to force you to solve it, or we're going to tell people and you're going to write us a contract to solve it, and then you're going to tell the people that you solved it.

2:09:26 Speaker 5: But at no point in time are people going to get no fucking answers. And when it's solved, either way, if there's UAP or UFOs in the sky, you're going to know the exact politician that has access to that folder and me for briefings. And he will have the answer. You will have to go to him to get it. What's in that folder. But I'm just telling you, that's how we get the secrets. That's how we get the information. There's a whole plan in play here. You can build things down or you can break things down.

2:09:57 Speaker 5: You can build them up. We're walking that fine line, but sometimes you also have to break things down the old saying, burn it down to rebuild it. And that's kind of what we're trying to do here.

2:10:08 Speaker 1: All right, guys. Um, fantastic. Um, I do want to say this before we go. We just had Lenville Logan on the show, former UAP Task Force member, all-source analyst, U.S. Air Force veteran, and he's got the app. Gene, what's the app called? Is it the Phenom app? I believe it is.

2:10:39 Speaker 2: Yeah.

2:10:40 Speaker 1: So I just want to get this in here. uh, real quick. Uh, I told him I would do it. So, and it's, I think it's a great, great, great tool.

2:10:50 Speaker 5: Uh, if not, he's probably got a chat. There we go, Dave.

2:10:54 Speaker 4: Here you go, Ty.

2:10:56 Speaker 2: Wow.

2:10:56 Speaker 1: Fantastic. Look at you. Look at you. You are such a John retainer for us.

2:11:03 Speaker 5: Uh, look for the icon next to it. And that's, that'll be his for sure.

2:11:06 Speaker 4: Yeah.

2:11:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can get it on Google Play. You can download it on the App Store. It's going to be, you know, it's a UAP intelligence for a more informed world. It's able to help you connect with, you know, so if you have a sighting or an encounter and you report it and you use the integrated tools in the app, you can actually, you know, see if anyone around you is seeing the same thing. And the more and more people that are obviously using the app, the more of a larger picture we're going to be able to get or the app is going to be able to get.

2:11:45 Speaker 1: And then it's a really cool idea. And it's another place where you can report things and you know the data is... I know people are very worried about their data. It is all secure. None of that... There are other apps out there that have... really done weird things. Um, and you know, the, the videos you submit, uh, become their property. Um, and that's, you know, a kind of a weird thing to do. So anyway, um, yeah.

2:12:18 Speaker 5: And it just real fast. It also doesn't listen to everything you say and show you an ad for whatever you mentioned.

2:12:26 Speaker 1: Did you hear, did you hear that? Um, I gotta forget what his name is. but he was, uh, he's a really famous guy. He was on Rogan and he was told the story. No, no, no, no. Um, good one. But yes, he was also on Joe. He was on Joe Rogan. People got so upset about that one. Um, and I was like, uh, I think we should be like giving credit, uh, where it's due. Cause like, that's someone who like started a small channel and grew it over time. And, then was sitting across from Joe Rogan like that's that's like that's what we all want to be and see so um you know I mean like people are hating on it but that's side tangent anyway this guy he tells Rogan that he taught Alexa how to remote view and Alexa had a pretty good yeah so uh he out of all the dumb AI he called it like the large language models not like anything like, you know, anything further than that.

2:13:37 Speaker 1: But out of the dumb AI, he said that Alexa worked the best and had a success rate that, you know, only 10% of people that go to like, say the Monroe Institute get or have. And like, he was like, again, incredible, incredible stuff. So like the world that we're headed into is, is it's such a fucking wild one. And there's like crazy news shit all the time. There's crazy stories, crazy things happening. Um, and it seems like we're on the precipice. Like I hate to, you know, keep uttering this, but you know, for the past year, I felt like, like something's about to give.

2:14:14 Speaker 1: And I just, I don't know what it is, but I keep feeling us edging closer to something. And I don't know if anyone else gets that same feeling, but, um, yeah, anyway, um, this has been really fun. Mike, thank you for doing this. Thank you for, um, you know, having the courage to, to come forward and, and, you know, take this leap, uh, Jean, thank you for everything you do. Uh, I asked him Forbes mentioned, I know people don't like him. I don't particularly like Ashton, um, but he did mention your work.

2:14:51 Speaker 2: Well, no, he's yeah. He's a, he's a big fan of, uh, my father-in-law's work. He, he's probably done four or five times now jumped into several aspects of it. Um, And he said something last night, and I shared it, only because it really captures the idea of what I always try to say. But he said, you know, that people should realize these are important because it's like finding a Bible written in Chinese before Christ was born. Right, right. You know, and it's a fairly good, like him or not, it's a good analogy.

2:15:38 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. And that's what I think it is a pretty good analogy of what we've all been trying to say about these documents for, you know, a couple of years now. So, you know, it's again, it's dense stuff, but it doesn't take a dense mind to to look at it and be like, huh, there is something here. If, if it seems too complicated for me to understand, it's probably something I should, you know, at least ask someone to look at. But yeah. And then David, you, you have a show. Do you want to plug that as well?

2:16:20 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. It's the best place to check the show out is at the website, attitudeofaggression.com. Or the Attitude of Aggression's YouTube channel. Gene, hopefully you'll check out the pro wrestling side of things since I guess you're a fan there.

2:16:35 Speaker 1: I didn't know Gene was a pro wrestling fan. This is news to me. And Gene is pretty close to Gene. Gene, are you a pro wrestling guy?

2:16:43 Speaker 2: I mean, I was as a kid. So I basically just sort of tune into anything that's got any of the legends of the 80s.

2:16:52 Speaker 5: Okay.

2:16:53 Speaker 1: This is what I'll admit to. I'll admit to something. I don't watch the current programming, but I do watch, like, the WWE Unreal series. And then I also watch everything from, like, Chris Van... Van.

2:17:09 Speaker 4: Van Vliet.

2:17:11 Speaker 1: Yeah. CVV is, like, the initials.

2:17:13 Speaker 5: Dave covers all that. Dave covers all that.

2:17:16 Speaker 1: Dude, I love listening to, like... Because I love... I watched it when I was a kid, too. And I was like, I grew up in the Attitude era, right? Like Stone Cold, The Rock, Undertaker, Kane, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero. But then you had guys like Edge and Christian.

2:17:44 Speaker 5: You should come over one day. He's just getting into the Attitude.

2:17:49 Speaker 1: With Unreal Sorry I don't admit this often So it's all coming out at once Like a faucet.

2:17:58 Speaker 5: Because I go scorched earth tonight The thing is.

2:18:04 Speaker 1: When you look at it from A perspective of Filmmaking and It's like this big orchestrated choreographed dance that they're always doing in the ring and then cutting promos. Even though it's not, quote, real, it's not like UFC where you just go in and kick each other in the fucking face. There's that more entertainment, the sports entertainment factor to it. I think doesn't make it any more unreal and, you know, no pun intended for the series, but I know it's a little bit of a, it's, it's kind of taboo.

2:18:47 Speaker 1: Cause for a long, long time, they didn't want to talk. They didn't talk trade secrets, right. That was a big thing. So I was actually just watching an interview with a JBL and Ron Simmons with Chris. And, you know, you see like, the visceral reaction they have to like, or at least Ron, you see the visceral reaction he has to like talking about behind the scenes stuff. Cause like it is uncomfortable, but like his character is legendary.

2:19:14 Speaker 4: Like there's a lot of guys there who want to keep that kayfabe alive.

2:19:18 Speaker 1: Right.

2:19:19 Speaker 4: And it's just, they're just so old school. Like, you know, back in the day when like hacksaw Jim Duggan and the iron sheet both got suspended because one's a bait, a face, one's a heel and, So they're driving the car together, smoking a joint and they both get suspended, you know, cause yeah. Can't cross the lines, but yeah.

2:19:35 Speaker 1: Like, and then that's the, that's the, that was the, like, like I like watching Paul Hyman, Paul Heyman, however everyone pronounced it because he like, he somehow breaks the kayfabe, but he, he keeps this like hook on you. And you're like, dude, this guy, that guy's, I used to hate him. I don't know why. I used to hate that guy. And I think that's because he plays a good bad guy. But again, the reason I'm talking about wrestling even right now and choreography is Gene and I, Gene brought this great idea to me, something I hadn't thought about.

2:20:13 Speaker 1: something I thought about.

2:20:15 Speaker 5: You guys are going to get in the wrestling ring?

2:20:19 Speaker 1: No.

2:20:20 Speaker 2: No.

2:20:20 Speaker 1: No. It's a scripted short film. And it's going to be this thing. I've already essentially written the first draft, storyboarded it. I'm going to start scouting locations on it. So it is going to be something that if you watch the podcast or if you're interested in UFOs, like It will have that start to finish storyline. But if you are a fan of the show or like this stuff, it will also be like a marketing kind of thing where I'm not going to hide it, that it's definitely like a marketing thing to like usher in this new phase of what we want to do.

2:21:02 Speaker 1: But I think it's a really cool idea. And, you know, it's only going to be like an eight minute short film. But, you know, again, all these things cost a lot of money. They take a lot of time. Fortunately, I have all the equipment necessary. I have all the means to do it. But in order to pay crew members to actually come on and work that day, anyone becoming a member or even just liking and sharing the show, it helps in its own way. It really does go a long way. And it's only used for bringing guests here to do these in-studio episodes and to keep Gene and Lifestyles East to.

2:21:45 Speaker 1: I've gotten really used to saying that he's a diva because he is a fucking diva. And he costs me so much money all the time. He wants a new radiant AC system put in. He wants a power chairlift, comes up the studio stairs. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. So we need to keep him happy.

2:22:04 Speaker 4: Well, no, like, like Mike was saying, we're like neat. We're like right in the middle of the attitude era on my show. So we're getting close to survivor series 97, which is the Montreal screw job, which is the Roswell of the WWE.

2:22:16 Speaker 1: Sean Michaels and Bret Hart.

2:22:20 Speaker 4: We're getting close to that. And then on the, on the unidentified history side of things.

2:22:24 Speaker 1: Yeah.

2:22:25 Speaker 4: We're Mike's coming on tomorrow. So we'll get into some depth on that. We just finished a, The Roswell episode I did was probably the best work I've done. I

2:22:37 Speaker 4: even got Mike to pause and think about a few things in that episode and say, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that before. What's that, Gene?

2:22:50 Speaker 2: Are you on X?

2:22:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's attitude of aggression. Oh, yeah.

2:22:54 Speaker 5: You asked a sore question.

2:22:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, it used to be. Somebody hacked my account and I got suspended. And they won't, they won't give it back to me. And, you know, even with the lawyering and I mean, I'll put it this way. There's agencies that are looking, there are agencies looking into this, but, but yeah, I can't get a human to actually review this, but I used to be on X. I, you know, and I had been on there for 11 years, no problems. And then all of a sudden this shit happens and it's like.

2:23:21 Speaker 1: Dude, a lot of people are getting hacked lately.

2:23:23 Speaker 4: It's the same hack.

2:23:24 Speaker 1: It's the same hack.

2:23:27 Speaker 4: Fox, Beatrice got hacked. And it's the same thing. They come at you through your DMs. So you think it's somebody you know. And the next thing you know, you've entered your password in somewhere and then they've got you. And it's like Mike saying, yeah, somebody's on my account, you know, talking about crypto scams and all this. I'm like, man, I wish I really did have a house like that.

2:23:46 Speaker 2: PSA, even if.

2:23:50 Speaker 1: Like a trusted person, like just randomly sends you a link, a hyperlink. Don't fucking, don't just delete the message. And then, you know, yeah. Yeah.

2:24:03 Speaker 4: I'm looking at data phenomenon here.

2:24:08 Speaker 5: Data's a buddy of mine. So, Data, you give me some information. I'll get it to Dave, man. Let's get it back.

2:24:13 Speaker 4: If there's actually humans out there, that'd be really, really nice.

2:24:18 Speaker 1: Elon fired everyone when he went scorched earth on X.

2:24:21 Speaker 4: Yeah, he bought Twitter and then it's like, it's just AI answering stuff.

2:24:27 Speaker 5: Dave, let's wait and see if we can get your account back first, man.

2:24:29 Speaker 1: Hold off.

2:24:30 Speaker 5: Hold off.

2:24:31 Speaker 3: We love him.

2:24:33 Speaker 1: No, I like Elon. I think he's doing great things. I can't wait until everyone has a chip in their head. And then your memories go behind a fucking paywall. You're trying to jerk off and it's like, that memory is Premium.

2:24:48 Speaker 3: Well, Gene, it's probably.

2:24:50 Speaker 5: About time to wrap it up.

2:24:53 Speaker 1: That is a premium memory. You need to pay $ 2. 99.

2:24:57 Speaker 4: Your Neuralink's been severed.

2:24:59 Speaker 5: Sorry.

2:24:59 Speaker 1: Change your payment option. No, that's a bit from somebody. I stole that bit. I stole that bit. I'm Carlos Mencia. But anyway, thank you, everyone. Stay humble. Stay kind. And most importantly, stay vigilant. We'll see you next time.