Dr Irena Scott PhD- The Great UFO flap Of 1973- Aliens UFOs and The Apocalypse

0:01 Speaker 1: Ah, all right, and we're back with the wonderful doctor

0:10 Speaker 1: Irena Scott. Uh Irene, thank you, Irena, thank you for

0:14 Speaker 1: being here today. It's always amazing to have you on

0:18 Speaker 1: the show.

0:19 Speaker 2: And you have a new book.

0:20 Speaker 1: You have a new book coming out and it is

0:24 Speaker 1: Aliens and the Apocalypse. Just you know, we've already had

0:29 Speaker 1: a conversation, We've gone through your origins, so I just

0:33 Speaker 1: want to really quickly say hello.

0:36 Speaker 2: And thank you for being back on the show.

0:39 Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. I'm very happy to

0:41 Speaker 3: be here.

0:42 Speaker 2: Right right, So where did you come up with so well?

0:47 Speaker 1: After the Pascor Gula book and you know, sadly, you know,

0:54 Speaker 1: we lost Calvin Parker and it was just just just

0:58 Speaker 1: a really tough time, but dory watershed moment for that case.

1:02 Speaker 1: I think you guys did a wonderful job expanding upon

1:09 Speaker 1: the data that was already there and extrapolating even more.

1:13 Speaker 1: That just kind of painted the picture. It just painted

1:17 Speaker 1: a picture of what happened that night. I think it

1:20 Speaker 1: is Uh Now, what are the what are the best

1:22 Speaker 1: documented cases?

1:27 Speaker 3: Yes, it's probably the best documented of any UFO case.

1:32 Speaker 3: And UFO close encounters are one thing that are not

1:38 Speaker 3: well documented at all. I mean, most people have close

1:41 Speaker 3: encounters or report abductions, it's help by themselves. They don't

1:46 Speaker 3: remember anything, they don't remember it until years later. There's

1:49 Speaker 3: no other witnesses. Well, in this case, there was a

1:52 Speaker 3: whole lot of documentation. There were other there were many

1:56 Speaker 3: many witnesses that saw something unusual at the time. And

2:00 Speaker 3: there was possibly another abduction the same time, around the

2:04 Speaker 3: same time, by the same object, possibly right.

2:07 Speaker 1: And that's and that's one of the aspects of the

2:11 Speaker 1: case that I you know, you always wonder, right in

2:17 Speaker 1: any abduction case, especially one like that, you know, why

2:22 Speaker 1: was why then?

2:23 Speaker 2: Why only them?

2:24 Speaker 1: And it seems that that that that wasn't the case,

2:30 Speaker 1: that there were more, there was another potential abduction that

2:34 Speaker 1: takes that took place, and that really really resonated I

2:41 Speaker 1: think with with audiences because or or not audiences, but

2:45 Speaker 1: the community. But from that case, that was in nineteen

2:51 Speaker 1: seventy three, Now you wrote a book about aliens and

2:55 Speaker 1: the apocalypse. So you went from you know, a very

3:00 Speaker 1: angular case to something that's a little bit more wide,

3:05 Speaker 1: wide angled, And why did you choose to do that?

3:09 Speaker 2: So what sparked this book?

3:11 Speaker 3: I had been thinking about it for a long time,

3:14 Speaker 3: and we're, well, that happened in nineteen seventy three. A

3:21 Speaker 3: lot of things happened in nineteen seventy three, such as

3:24 Speaker 3: there was a huge UFO wave. There was also the

3:29 Speaker 3: government was in disarray with Nixon resigning and everything like that.

3:35 Speaker 3: Plus there was a threat of nuclear war, one of

3:38 Speaker 3: the biggest threats there was. And then things sort of

3:44 Speaker 3: calmed down for about fifty years. And now we're fifty

3:46 Speaker 3: years from nineteen seventy three when Pasagoula happened, and it's

3:54 Speaker 3: like we're repeating the whole thing again. There's there seems

3:58 Speaker 3: to be a there's more UFO sightings and the government

4:03 Speaker 3: is actually taking them somewhat seriously. Plus there's a threat

4:10 Speaker 3: in nuclear war again.

4:12 Speaker 2: Right, And it's it's almost uh.

4:16 Speaker 1: And I asked you before we started recording, do you

4:19 Speaker 1: know what what felt worse, you know then or now?

4:25 Speaker 1: And you you said, you, you know, you it's it's

4:29 Speaker 1: hard to tell, you know. And and I think the

4:33 Speaker 1: current the current, so the current geopolitical arena, let's just

4:41 Speaker 1: say it's tense, uh, to say the least.

4:44 Speaker 3: Uh.

4:44 Speaker 1: So, when we're talking about aliens and the apocalypse, my

4:50 Speaker 1: first thought goes to UFOs and nuclear facilities. This this

4:58 Speaker 1: common theme that seems to occur, and in the book

5:04 Speaker 1: I assume that you elaborate on this phenomen.

5:09 Speaker 3: I don't elaborate too. I just mentioned that it's something

5:15 Speaker 3: that's on everybody's mind because we can blow ourselves up now,

5:21 Speaker 3: and there's a threat again which we haven't heard much

5:24 Speaker 3: about for quite a while. But they're coming up with

5:28 Speaker 3: new weapons like hypersonic missiles and things like that that

5:32 Speaker 3: go right through and nobody can stop them. And a

5:36 Speaker 3: lot of countries are developing their missiles too and sending

5:41 Speaker 3: things into space. So we've got a lot more to

5:43 Speaker 3: worry about than we.

5:44 Speaker 2: Have a long Yeah, and.

5:52 Speaker 1: You know, I think I think just nuclear weapons in

5:56 Speaker 1: general are are such there's so it's so stupid. I

6:02 Speaker 1: hate to be so crude about it, but like it

6:05 Speaker 1: is idiotic to think of using such a weapon. But

6:10 Speaker 1: my fear is some like bad actor or state actor

6:18 Speaker 1: that you know, some sort of false flag is initiated

6:22 Speaker 1: and pits the larger powers against it or against them them,

6:28 Speaker 1: And you know, would would would UFOs, would whoever occupies them?

6:36 Speaker 1: Do you think that they have a vested interest in

6:39 Speaker 1: either humanity or is it the planet itself.

6:45 Speaker 3: Well, I think that maybe they're suggesting that we change

6:51 Speaker 3: some of our ways because we've always thought of the

6:56 Speaker 3: end of the world as like from the outside, such

6:59 Speaker 3: as asteroids hitting us, a volcanoes going off or something

7:03 Speaker 3: like that. But in this case, we may do it ourselves.

7:07 Speaker 3: And that's stupid.

7:09 Speaker 1: As you said, yeah, very but you know, not funny,

7:16 Speaker 1: that's not the correct term. But the end of the

7:19 Speaker 1: world has been spoken about since Man wrote, you know,

7:24 Speaker 1: since since man began writing. And there's an argument that

7:32 Speaker 1: UFOs may have or or like aliens may have been

7:36 Speaker 1: around for as long as mankind has been here as well.

7:41 Speaker 1: So do you think that there's any correlation between our

7:46 Speaker 1: religious texts and our view of the end of the

7:49 Speaker 1: world and alien intervention.

7:54 Speaker 3: Well, we've always worried about the end of the world,

8:01 Speaker 3: and before with the religious texts, sometimes it came from

8:06 Speaker 3: the deity, whatever deity, different religions had that the deaa

8:10 Speaker 3: decided to get rid of us, like we're you know,

8:13 Speaker 3: insects or something. But now it's different because we can

8:20 Speaker 3: kill ourselves. It's not a deity, it's not an asteroid,

8:24 Speaker 3: it's us and they the UFOs may be sending us

8:32 Speaker 3: messages to have ourselves check our own social order and

8:37 Speaker 3: our own ideas about how to solve problems instead of

8:44 Speaker 3: thinking it's something external.

8:47 Speaker 1: Okay, And what are so what is the evidence that

8:51 Speaker 1: you've gathered that suggests that there is messages being sent

8:57 Speaker 1: that they are trying to whatever they are or whoever

9:03 Speaker 1: they are.

9:04 Speaker 2: What messages?

9:07 Speaker 1: You know?

9:07 Speaker 2: What?

9:07 Speaker 3: What?

9:08 Speaker 2: What are you citing? What are some of the messages?

9:11 Speaker 1: Because I mean, I know of cases where you know,

9:15 Speaker 1: they talk about, you know, you're destroying your planet. Seems

9:19 Speaker 1: to be a common theme. So I'm just you know,

9:21 Speaker 1: seeing if that's what you're what you're getting at.

9:27 Speaker 3: Well, one thing I'm getting at is that the messages

9:36 Speaker 3: are not what we expect. We've always had like a

9:40 Speaker 3: conquista door social order where it's called you know, survival

9:47 Speaker 3: of the fittest or whatever, where one person or one

9:50 Speaker 3: thing has power and they destroy something else, such as

9:56 Speaker 3: Darwin's theory of evolutionary things, and we based things on that.

10:01 Speaker 3: But the and so if we've had the war, the

10:05 Speaker 3: world's seen in the scenario of the aliens coming in

10:09 Speaker 3: killing us everything. Oh, and we're like that when a

10:15 Speaker 3: more powerful civilization in humanity takes over, well, they are

10:21 Speaker 3: not good for the less powerful civilization, and so we're

10:25 Speaker 3: worried about that. But and we have a very male

10:31 Speaker 3: culture where we have the idea that males created the

10:38 Speaker 3: human race by chipping off rocks and killing animals and

10:42 Speaker 3: things and competitive actions. However, in that case, you would

10:49 Speaker 3: expect us to view our aliens. It's like powerful men.

10:55 Speaker 3: When we go to other planets the only place we've

10:58 Speaker 3: gone so far as we wear big space suits and

11:02 Speaker 3: we have big men out, you know, walking around sticking

11:06 Speaker 3: flags in the ground and everything, and we sort of

11:10 Speaker 3: expect that for somebody to say, take me to your leader.

11:14 Speaker 3: And that's not the appearance that the aliens are giving us.

11:19 Speaker 3: We don't really know what they look like, but the

11:21 Speaker 3: appearance in the media is of slender beings that look

11:26 Speaker 3: like females and their children and that don't have They're

11:33 Speaker 3: not wearing space suits or gas or breathing apparatus or

11:38 Speaker 3: anything else. They're completely different than what we expect. And

11:44 Speaker 3: I was saying that maybe this is a message that

11:47 Speaker 3: we should pay more attention to our other elements besides

11:52 Speaker 3: the males, such as females and young people instead of

11:56 Speaker 3: the male idea of power and physical power.

12:04 Speaker 2: Right.

12:05 Speaker 1: So, and and you're absolutely I think you are right

12:09 Speaker 1: when you when you do look around and uh, there's

12:14 Speaker 1: a lot of this this these cases where the female

12:21 Speaker 1: alien quote unquote alien seems to be the one in charge.

12:26 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with, uh Chris Bloodsoe and the

12:31 Speaker 1: lady in white. So she she almost represents for Chris, Uh,

12:38 Speaker 1: this angelic uh sort of being, this divine being. So,

12:44 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the religion's kind of being put

12:48 Speaker 1: onto it. But if I'm looking at it, you know myself,

12:53 Speaker 1: I just non human intelligence, is what I say. Right, So,

12:59 Speaker 1: I think there are absolutely something to that.

13:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're solving our problems in ways that

13:06 Speaker 3: make our problems worse. And one thing is we think

13:13 Speaker 3: that we were created by men going out with sharpening

13:17 Speaker 3: rocks and killing things and having competitive interactions with the environment.

13:22 Speaker 3: And I was saying that maybe we're solving our problems

13:26 Speaker 3: with something that didn't exist, that that's just fiction, that

13:31 Speaker 3: that's how we started.

13:35 Speaker 1: So and the divine like people talk about the divine feminine,

13:41 Speaker 1: and you know that is you know, our mother Gaya, right,

13:46 Speaker 1: the earth itself almost given uh, this this female identity

13:54 Speaker 1: and then you know, juxtaposed to humanity, it seems to

14:01 Speaker 1: be almost a cancer on it, play to destroy it.

14:07 Speaker 1: So there that is is it is haunting because you're right,

14:13 Speaker 1: it is a lot of alpha male syndrome in our.

14:19 Speaker 2: Geopolitics and this.

14:22 Speaker 1: This crude idea of like land ownership and these really

14:28 Speaker 1: just outdated and primitive ways of life or ways of thinking.

14:36 Speaker 3: Yes, I was saying that they're telling us to look

14:43 Speaker 3: inside ourselves and explore how we actually started and rather

14:50 Speaker 3: than have the idea that we started by males fighting

14:55 Speaker 3: and contesting, And I was giving a lot of reasons

14:58 Speaker 3: why the idea of males combat and competition may not

15:08 Speaker 3: be our origin at all, that it might be a

15:13 Speaker 3: totally different origin.

15:16 Speaker 2: So can you expand upon that.

15:19 Speaker 3: Yes, people used to have the idea that through the

15:28 Speaker 3: literature and stuff that we were called it was called

15:33 Speaker 3: the killer ape or the naked ape, that apes coming

15:37 Speaker 3: out of the trees. And then the men made these

15:40 Speaker 3: weapons and started killing everything, and so that made it

15:45 Speaker 3: superior and we took over the world. Well, I think

15:49 Speaker 3: there's a lot of question about that because there's a

15:52 Speaker 3: lot more studies of how animals work, and like humans

15:58 Speaker 3: are primates, primate or animals that live in the trees

16:02 Speaker 3: or live on vegetation were not carnivores. We never were.

16:07 Speaker 3: We're omnivores and the chief food of primates is vegetation.

16:15 Speaker 3: And so that idea of the killer ape isn't exactly

16:28 Speaker 3: where we began. And another thing that's in recent scientific

16:35 Speaker 3: discoveries is they used to always present the male is

16:40 Speaker 3: the fender and the females being dependent on the male. Well, actually,

16:46 Speaker 3: in mammals, which we are, the female usually raises the

16:51 Speaker 3: young themselves. I mean, if a deer has a baby,

16:56 Speaker 3: she doesn't depend on some male fight everybody off.

17:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, and oh that's a that's a really great that's

17:07 Speaker 1: a great visualization. Like yeah, like you said more or

17:12 Speaker 1: you know, audience, h people might resonate with this, uh

17:16 Speaker 1: the mama bear, right, you know this notion of you know,

17:20 Speaker 1: if you see a baby club bear, that mom is

17:25 Speaker 1: not far behind and you need to get the go

17:29 Speaker 1: out of there. You need to you need to move

17:32 Speaker 1: because she at all costs, she is she is willing

17:36 Speaker 1: to defend that that those those cubs and yeah, that

17:43 Speaker 1: that that's absolutely a great point and we are you know,

17:47 Speaker 1: we were.

17:47 Speaker 2: Raised from birth.

17:49 Speaker 1: I mean and literally we are given life from a woman,

17:55 Speaker 1: from always from a female in every singles.

18:02 Speaker 2: Species. And I mean that says something in itself.

18:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want a little bit too, because actually the

18:12 Speaker 3: females the only sex that conveys life to the next generation.

18:19 Speaker 3: Female conveys an egg to the next generation. All Earth

18:24 Speaker 3: life is in cells. The egg is a cell, it

18:29 Speaker 3: goes to the next generation. Many females in different species

18:34 Speaker 3: can reproduced by themselves with no males. The only thing

18:38 Speaker 3: the male actually contributes is less than half of the

18:42 Speaker 3: DNA when they do contribute. Right, So the female does

18:47 Speaker 3: convey life to the next generation. And that puts the

18:52 Speaker 3: males in in come in competition with each other too,

19:00 Speaker 3: because the females can often just have children, right, But

19:07 Speaker 3: the males have to reproduce through a female, and so

19:10 Speaker 3: that makes them a lot more competitive all through the evolution.

19:16 Speaker 2: Right through the through the entire evolutionary chain.

19:20 Speaker 1: Do you think I know this is like I'm going

19:23 Speaker 1: off in the space here, but do you think there's

19:25 Speaker 1: a chance that if there is truly a singular god,

19:30 Speaker 1: that it would actually be a woman, or at least

19:35 Speaker 1: more of a divine won't femininity?

19:39 Speaker 2: If that makes sense, well, I think the original.

19:44 Speaker 3: Idea of religion for most of the time humans have

19:48 Speaker 3: been here has been a female deity, because if you

19:54 Speaker 3: go back and look at all the art and the

19:57 Speaker 3: everything from way back, there's usually the female in the

20:02 Speaker 3: art and in what is viewed as deities. It's only

20:07 Speaker 3: within people have been here for like twenty thousand years.

20:12 Speaker 3: In twenty thousand years, the art shows females, which they

20:16 Speaker 3: call God's statues or all that, but they may just

20:19 Speaker 3: be ancestry ancestral depictions. But only within the last oh

20:27 Speaker 3: four thousand years or so have the males presented the

20:34 Speaker 3: deity as a male. So I think and I imagine

20:39 Speaker 3: that the reason why the deity was originally presented as

20:44 Speaker 3: a female is because the female gave birth to people

20:47 Speaker 3: and they could look back and say, this is my ancestors.

20:49 Speaker 3: She gave birth to.

20:50 Speaker 2: Me, life giver.

20:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, sod of God in itself, you gave life the

21:00 Speaker 1: godly It's honestly, it's a godly power to be able

21:04 Speaker 1: to when you really look at it, to create basically,

21:10 Speaker 1: you know, to create life, to just state life.

21:15 Speaker 2: It's it's almost a godly power that that.

21:20 Speaker 1: Female or or uh feminine or female yeah, female ads.

21:27 Speaker 1: And that's a striking thought that maybe over the years

21:33 Speaker 1: where where males viewed themselves as is centric that alpha

21:40 Speaker 1: male syndrome that we see far so often. I mean,

21:44 Speaker 1: look at our presidential debates or or presidential races. I

21:48 Speaker 1: mean in our military conflicts, they are it's it's all, it's.

21:56 Speaker 2: All alpha male syndrome.

21:59 Speaker 1: And and that that that that that strikes me.

22:05 Speaker 2: It strikes me. And so how are you how are you.

22:08 Speaker 1: Relating aliens in the apocalypse, you know, and in in

22:14 Speaker 1: a way that through Is this something that you think

22:20 Speaker 1: is on the horizon or is this something that is

22:26 Speaker 1: just a generalization.

22:29 Speaker 3: Well you talked about alpha males. Well, I think the

22:33 Speaker 3: idea of that is changing some too, because most mammals

22:39 Speaker 3: reproduced by themselves and don't have a group. Like if

22:41 Speaker 3: you have a cat, she has babies and she takes

22:44 Speaker 3: care of them, and there's no male. When there's groups

22:47 Speaker 3: of animals, often there will be fewer males and they say, well,

22:50 Speaker 3: this is the alpha male, he controls the group. Well,

22:53 Speaker 3: they're studying and they're calling it a harem that the

22:57 Speaker 3: alpha male collects the females and control. And they're studying

23:02 Speaker 3: animal groups now in more detail, and that's not how

23:05 Speaker 3: you form a group. Usually animal groups are formed of

23:09 Speaker 3: related females, like the grandmother and mother and daughters, and

23:15 Speaker 3: the females are the permanent members and the leaders. The

23:20 Speaker 3: males are like to get in there, but they don't

23:22 Speaker 3: control the group. They're looking out for the other males

23:26 Speaker 3: and trying to mate with the females and then another

23:29 Speaker 3: male replaces them. And so the idea of an alpha male,

23:32 Speaker 3: I think, is scientifically going down the drain because it's

23:37 Speaker 3: not how things are organized. But we still are solving

23:42 Speaker 3: our problems with the alpha male idea, even though I

23:46 Speaker 3: think that we're sort of getting not so much seen

23:50 Speaker 3: it that way now scientifically, but we're stilled. There were

23:55 Speaker 3: a lot of books about alpha males and how males,

23:58 Speaker 3: you know, controlled everything, always control everything, ever since the

24:02 Speaker 3: beginning of time, and things like that, and there's a

24:05 Speaker 3: lot of questions about that now. But our politics and

24:09 Speaker 3: our way the countries are getting along with each other,

24:14 Speaker 3: and that sort of thing is still based on the

24:16 Speaker 3: alpha male and the male creating civilization by violence.

24:24 Speaker 2: Yes, so violence and violence being.

24:32 Speaker 1: The wars and war, yeah, exactly, war, corruption, you know,

24:40 Speaker 1: all of it. And it's I mean there there has.

24:50 Speaker 2: This this idea.

24:51 Speaker 1: Of of uh what do they call it? Mutually sure destruction?

25:00 Speaker 2: I mean what is that? What kind of like what

25:05 Speaker 2: kind what? Who thought that.

25:07 Speaker 1: That was going to work or what would be a

25:10 Speaker 1: long term solution? No, that is a band aid on

25:14 Speaker 1: a much larger problem, and that is that we have

25:19 Speaker 1: narcissists who are the ones who are controlling these systems,

25:26 Speaker 1: these world ending systems, and it's it's.

25:32 Speaker 2: It's very very alarming to see it happen.

25:36 Speaker 1: I think, I really, you know, I have hope for

25:42 Speaker 1: humanity and and optimism.

25:45 Speaker 2: But you know, say, say the button was was triggered,

25:50 Speaker 2: do you.

25:50 Speaker 1: Think that that that that aliens would interfere?

25:55 Speaker 3: Well, I worked for the years ago, and at that

25:59 Speaker 3: time people are counting their tests saying owing the story

26:04 Speaker 3: of the world. Well once now you can do a

26:09 Speaker 3: lot more than that in overkill, But I think our

26:15 Speaker 3: social systems are set up for that, and you just

26:19 Speaker 3: need a trigger like the stroll that broke the camel's

26:21 Speaker 3: back or whatever, or they say World War one was

26:26 Speaker 3: started by a punctuation point. You just need one little

26:29 Speaker 3: thing to set it off. And when I work for

26:32 Speaker 3: the DIA, they have everything all over the world targeted

26:37 Speaker 3: so that they have their missiles and everything set so

26:40 Speaker 3: that something, you know, you push the trigger, well they go,

26:44 Speaker 3: the missiles and everything else go all over and smash everything.

26:48 Speaker 3: So it's really set up so it's in a very

26:51 Speaker 3: dangerous way, and just the tiniest little thing could trip it.

27:00 Speaker 2: One miscalculation away on, one misunderstanding away from a problem.

27:10 Speaker 1: And is it true you worked in the DA Is

27:15 Speaker 1: it true that we have a.

27:19 Speaker 2: Use them or lose them policy?

27:23 Speaker 1: So that so if the audience is wondering what I'm saying,

27:27 Speaker 1: if one nuclear weapon has fired our way, we have

27:30 Speaker 1: approximately six minutes. If it's an IF not ICBM, we

27:36 Speaker 1: have approximately I think it's seven minutes. But the president

27:42 Speaker 1: has about six minutes to make a decision. And there's

27:49 Speaker 1: this notion of use it or lose it, and that

27:55 Speaker 1: if one is out of our way, that we launch

27:58 Speaker 1: basically our whole ourt.

28:01 Speaker 3: Well that's the way it was set up. I hope

28:03 Speaker 3: they have more controls over now and more people decide

28:06 Speaker 3: than just the present pushing a button. Because I remember Nixon,

28:10 Speaker 3: they said he was drunk, and the White House and

28:14 Speaker 3: everything with a nuclear button there and all these missiles,

28:19 Speaker 3: and so I hope they have more control than that now.

28:22 Speaker 3: But yeah, I think we're set up and our social

28:26 Speaker 3: organization is set up that way. And in my book,

28:29 Speaker 3: I was saying that maybe they're saying to us that

28:32 Speaker 3: we should question our social organization. That the idea of

28:39 Speaker 3: like survival of the fittest, that the fittest arrives and

28:42 Speaker 3: the other one dies isn't really what happens in the

28:46 Speaker 3: real world, because like I have DearS in my yard

28:50 Speaker 3: all the time. The males will fight and one big

28:54 Speaker 3: male will be there and another younger male come up

28:57 Speaker 3: and he'll shake his head and then they sort of

29:00 Speaker 3: side whether they want to fight or not, and then

29:03 Speaker 3: you know, toss around everything. But no, they don't kill

29:06 Speaker 3: each other. I mean then one walks away and the

29:08 Speaker 3: other goes the other way. Yeah, you know, the fittest survives,

29:11 Speaker 3: but so is the other one, and the other one

29:14 Speaker 3: grows up and gets to be a big deer and

29:15 Speaker 3: so on. So I don't I think that all or

29:18 Speaker 3: none thing is not exactly the way things work.

29:23 Speaker 2: Well, it's not.

29:24 Speaker 1: It's such a oh my god, it's such a scary

29:27 Speaker 1: thing to think about, and oh god, it gives me

29:34 Speaker 1: the shivers every time I think of of nuclear weapons.

29:39 Speaker 1: And you know, you spoke about it earlier. I have

29:45 Speaker 1: I have this theory and I wanted to run it

29:47 Speaker 1: by you. Not maybe not a theory, but you talked

29:52 Speaker 1: about the UFO flop of the seventies, and it seems

29:58 Speaker 1: now I can't exactly pinpoint it, but between the months

30:04 Speaker 1: of maybe September to question Mark that there was in

30:12 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three at least and across the world, that

30:17 Speaker 1: there was an abd an exponential growth in UFO sightings

30:25 Speaker 1: and experiences.

30:29 Speaker 2: I go through many of.

30:32 Speaker 1: The most prolific UFO personalities, and many of them who

30:38 Speaker 1: have had sightings had them during this nineteen seventy three

30:42 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four period, and I find it very, very weird,

30:48 Speaker 1: and well, not weird, but there's a commonality.

30:53 Speaker 2: So I wanted to I know we're kind of going.

30:56 Speaker 1: Backwards, but can you tell me more about the flap

31:01 Speaker 1: that happened back then?

31:04 Speaker 3: Yes, I think that was a number of authors have

31:11 Speaker 3: said this is the largest waiver flap that ever happened

31:15 Speaker 3: anytime there were vast numbers of UFOs, and like my book,

31:20 Speaker 3: my two books covered past Segoula and that reported abduction.

31:26 Speaker 3: But my parents were living in Ohio and there was

31:31 Speaker 3: a big flap going on there too, such the newspaper

31:37 Speaker 3: here in Columbus reported that I think there were one

31:40 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty UFO reports like on one night, which

31:43 Speaker 3: is just amazing. And there were a town, I think Wheeling,

31:49 Speaker 3: West Virginia, almost had a riot. There were so many

31:52 Speaker 3: UFO reports and just on one night, and it sort

31:58 Speaker 3: of built up. I mean, it sort of started in

32:01 Speaker 3: the early nineteen seventy, but in the fall suddenly there

32:06 Speaker 3: were just huge numbers of UFO reports. And I remember

32:11 Speaker 3: talking to my parents and my mother told me that

32:17 Speaker 3: people were hiding in their basements and keeping their kids

32:19 Speaker 3: in and things just like a war was going on.

32:23 Speaker 3: Leonard Stringfield from Ohio wrote a situation Read and several

32:26 Speaker 3: books like that, where he said, you know, people out

32:29 Speaker 3: on the farms were scared, and you know, it was

32:33 Speaker 3: quite a big thing. But then it went over. It

32:37 Speaker 3: was just a wave that lasted for a while.

32:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. They called it the Autumn of the Aliens, as

32:46 Speaker 2: I've seen it quoted, I mean we're talking, I mean

32:49 Speaker 2: doctor Scott, We're talking from Nashville to.

32:55 Speaker 1: Zanesville to Pasca Coula, all the way up to Hawaii, Ohio,

33:05 Speaker 1: over to California. I mean, something happened in that span

33:12 Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen seventy three, and I really really

33:19 Speaker 1: did like a lot of not just UFO sightings, but

33:25 Speaker 1: full on you know, contact or reductions or you know,

33:28 Speaker 1: it seemed that that was there was a huge bit

33:31 Speaker 1: that that that time period, and I wanted to dig

33:36 Speaker 1: far deeper into it, but you know, can you think

33:40 Speaker 1: of any significance of that.

33:43 Speaker 3: Time Well, it was kind of like today's. The government

33:50 Speaker 3: was in dis array, Watergate was going on. Nixon was

33:54 Speaker 3: the president, he was sort of out of it. Basically,

33:58 Speaker 3: they were they switched, they put in a new vice president.

34:02 Speaker 3: There was an oil crisis. Plus there was a possibility

34:06 Speaker 3: there was a Yung compare war in Israel. That was

34:11 Speaker 3: where the possibility in nuclear nuclear annihilation or whatever you

34:17 Speaker 3: want to call it, nuclear war was very possible. And

34:20 Speaker 3: they had Defcon three alert, which they've only had about

34:28 Speaker 3: two or three other times. In nineteen seventy three, a

34:31 Speaker 3: possible nuclear war and we're having somewhat the same thing.

34:37 Speaker 3: Now we've been having an oil crisis, we're having some

34:45 Speaker 3: presidential troubles such as impeachments, and that the other time

34:52 Speaker 3: was ampeachment of Nixon. Peachments again, and just the politics

35:01 Speaker 3: is somewhat similar. Plus also the possibility of nuclear war.

35:07 Speaker 3: So I think there's some relationship between them. And now

35:11 Speaker 3: it's fifty years later.

35:14 Speaker 2: Right, could it be?

35:18 Speaker 1: And I really really hate to think this, but do

35:22 Speaker 1: you think that they UFOs could possibly And I've proposed

35:29 Speaker 1: this before by that they're here to see something happen,

35:39 Speaker 1: that they know that something is about to occur, and

35:45 Speaker 1: the increase in sighting since forty seven, maybe time doesn't

35:48 Speaker 1: work exactly the same for them. So you know, they

35:51 Speaker 1: pop up throughout our modern history as we know it

35:56 Speaker 1: by only to see kind of the cliff notes to

36:00 Speaker 1: understand how it happened. And you know, I recently talked

36:06 Speaker 1: to Mark d' antonio about how UFOs may move, and

36:11 Speaker 1: they may move, you know, through dimensions, so you know,

36:16 Speaker 1: going through rather than you know, traverse is you know,

36:22 Speaker 1: the the universe, the cosmos. They are simply maneuvering through dimensions.

36:29 Speaker 1: And you know that I mean that's that's a discussion

36:32 Speaker 1: for another time. But could they be here to see

36:39 Speaker 1: the fall of society and maybe what you call the apocalypse?

36:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope what you mentioned before about they UFOs

36:53 Speaker 3: flying over military over missiles establishments and turning off the targeting, well,

37:02 Speaker 3: I've talked to people. To one of the people, that

37:05 Speaker 3: was true. All the missiles, he said that really happened.

37:08 Speaker 1: And that Roberts Alice, No, it wasn't it was.

37:14 Speaker 3: I forget his name. He was the other one. He

37:17 Speaker 3: wrote a book about it too. I can't remember his

37:19 Speaker 3: name right now. He was in charge of missiles too,

37:23 Speaker 3: and the same thing. And after the other one talked

37:26 Speaker 3: about it, so did he. But they don't understand why

37:29 Speaker 3: the government takes no inners whatsoever in that, which is ridiculous.

37:35 Speaker 3: But on the other hand, they may be saying to

37:37 Speaker 3: us that we had better ways of solving problems and

37:42 Speaker 3: creating missiles to blow ourselves up with, and one way

37:45 Speaker 3: might be to figure out ways to denature our weapons

37:51 Speaker 3: instead of making him worse.

37:54 Speaker 1: Right, I'm trying to find out who who it was

38:02 Speaker 1: that he spoke to.

38:06 Speaker 3: I can't find it right now. I can look on

38:08 Speaker 3: the other computer mode take a minute.

38:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, because now now Maelstrom, I know it was Maelstrom.

38:15 Speaker 3: And.

38:17 Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't. Larry Hankar was it.

38:20 Speaker 3: I remember his name. He wrote a book about it.

38:24 Speaker 2: Okay, well I'll figure that, I'll figure it out. But yeah,

38:29 Speaker 2: and then uh, you know.

38:32 Speaker 1: Us OS Richard Dolan is you know, currently under undertaking

38:37 Speaker 1: UH and writing a book about us OS.

38:40 Speaker 2: UH. And it seems that.

38:42 Speaker 1: You know, other people not just UFOs and nuclear facilities

38:49 Speaker 1: on the ground, but there's an UH program about fast

38:56 Speaker 1: movers and it's usually they're scene around the new nuclear

39:00 Speaker 1: powered submarines.

39:03 Speaker 2: And uh, there was just a movie.

39:06 Speaker 1: Made called uh god, I think it was called USOS

39:10 Speaker 1: Fast Movers or or or something like that, but it

39:13 Speaker 1: was made by Darcy Ware and Admiral Tim uh Golladet

39:18 Speaker 1: basically you know, goes on record saying that there is

39:21 Speaker 1: this program that these these vehicles you know, potentially at

39:29 Speaker 1: their bases in the water.

39:32 Speaker 2: And would you say it's a fair assumption.

39:37 Speaker 3: Well, in the past, goula thing, one part of it

39:42 Speaker 3: was the UFO and the abduction, but another part of

39:46 Speaker 3: the whole thing was u s OS and oh that's right, yeah,

39:51 Speaker 3: very close to where the abduction took place, there was

39:55 Speaker 3: a USO siting and it was by I think it

39:59 Speaker 3: was m sixteen people or so on. There's quite a

40:03 Speaker 3: few people involved. Only one of them was alive, and

40:06 Speaker 3: I interviewed him and he remembered it quite well. He

40:10 Speaker 3: and it made the news, made the national news along

40:13 Speaker 3: with the past school abduction and the underwater USO both

40:19 Speaker 3: made the national news and about the same time. And

40:22 Speaker 3: the man I talked to said that where they first

40:24 Speaker 3: saw the USO is real close to where the abduction

40:27 Speaker 3: had taken place, and they saw this thing and they

40:33 Speaker 3: didn't know what it was. It was underwater, and he

40:36 Speaker 3: his father saw it first. They were fishing with nets,

40:41 Speaker 3: right huh. His father hit it with a or real

40:46 Speaker 3: long ore and it sounded metallic. But then it would

40:50 Speaker 3: turn on and turn off and go away and appear

40:54 Speaker 3: someplace else, and they had no idea what it was.

40:57 Speaker 3: So they finally got went back and got the coast Guard,

41:01 Speaker 3: and the coast Guard officers came with a bigger ship

41:05 Speaker 3: and they couldn't figure it out either. And there were

41:12 Speaker 3: the coast Guard and the Navy took this very seriously

41:16 Speaker 3: and investigated wherever there is the passaical abduction. It was

41:21 Speaker 3: people made fun of them with the USO, which happened

41:27 Speaker 3: real close at the same time in the same place.

41:29 Speaker 3: They took it seriously, and the and the Coast Guard

41:32 Speaker 3: and everybody else very seriously investigated it. And then also

41:36 Speaker 3: there were ship building there were uh Pastagal. It was

41:40 Speaker 3: a big ship building facility and they were making nuclear submarines,

41:45 Speaker 3: but they didn't advertise that to the publish public. It

41:49 Speaker 3: was a government secret back then. Wait really, uh huh,

41:55 Speaker 3: that's what the BOS said.

41:57 Speaker 2: Interesting, So this was wow. So this could be something

42:08 Speaker 2: that is.

42:12 Speaker 1: The past Goual abduction I'm talking about, could be could

42:16 Speaker 1: could be a result of nuclear nuclear activity with the

42:22 Speaker 1: military that that could be why the UFOs were around there.

42:27 Speaker 3: I don't know, but that's there was USO activity. I

42:33 Speaker 3: think it was November the sixth and the abduction was

42:36 Speaker 3: October the eleventh, So it was very close in time

42:40 Speaker 3: and very close in place, because the man told me

42:43 Speaker 3: it was just not very far away from where the

42:45 Speaker 3: abduction took place, where they first saw the USO.

42:51 Speaker 1: And how how how documented is this by the Navy.

42:56 Speaker 3: I don't think it was. Several reporters found out that

43:00 Speaker 3: there were nuclear facilities there and they were building I

43:03 Speaker 3: think nuclear submarines, but it wasn't out in the public

43:07 Speaker 3: and so I don't know if it was in the

43:08 Speaker 3: government documents or not, but I think there was. And

43:13 Speaker 3: I looked later for or medio activities and I think

43:17 Speaker 3: there were. There was some remediation for radiation there, so

43:24 Speaker 3: I think they were making nuclear submarines.

43:28 Speaker 1: Did Calvin or Charles register for any radiation?

43:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think they detected any h but

43:40 Speaker 3: they were worried about it. That's one reason why Calvin afterwards,

43:46 Speaker 3: he was very worried that he might be contaminated or

43:49 Speaker 3: have radiation, and he went back home that night and

43:53 Speaker 3: poured I think it was clarox or something on him

43:56 Speaker 3: and really voiced and put always clothes even when he

44:01 Speaker 3: was very worried that there might be radiation. They took

44:03 Speaker 3: him them later to Kessler to see if they were

44:06 Speaker 3: contaminated in any way. Space.

44:11 Speaker 2: Oh, that that's right, that is in the right. I

44:14 Speaker 2: do remember that aspect of it now.

44:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, that and we see similar things like you're familiar

44:21 Speaker 1: with the Travis Walton case mm hmm, where he reflecting

44:29 Speaker 1: I think back on it now he's more of the

44:32 Speaker 1: volition that.

44:34 Speaker 2: He got too close to.

44:38 Speaker 1: Whatever this force was around the ship that was going

44:43 Speaker 1: to allow it to travel and got radiation poisoning sickness.

44:49 Speaker 1: And they didn't abduct him per se, but they took

44:55 Speaker 1: him on board to reverse the damage and then return him,

45:02 Speaker 1: uh safely, unharmed.

45:04 Speaker 2: Uh.

45:05 Speaker 1: But to do that, you know, uh they they You

45:10 Speaker 1: know again, there's and and there's this other aspect of

45:13 Speaker 1: it where time may work differently. Right for Calvin, you know,

45:19 Speaker 1: it wasn't exactly five it wasn't necessarily five days, but

45:24 Speaker 1: for the world, it was five days he was missing.

45:29 Speaker 1: So you know, with abductees, uh, missing time is is

45:34 Speaker 1: something that we often find as another correlation with their

45:40 Speaker 1: experiences Betty and Barney Hill, you know, so all all

45:45 Speaker 1: of them or a lot of them report some sort

45:49 Speaker 1: of missing time. And what you know, what do you

45:54 Speaker 1: think that what do you think that that that is?

46:00 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think these alien these beings are

46:05 Speaker 1: from a different planet or do you think that they

46:07 Speaker 1: may be future?

46:09 Speaker 2: What turns what we turn into?

46:13 Speaker 3: I don't think we know. And I think that's another

46:15 Speaker 3: problem with our alpha male type of thing, is is

46:18 Speaker 3: that our males think, well, they're the top life in

46:22 Speaker 3: the universe, and like Europe was the center of the universe,

46:25 Speaker 3: and they burn people on stakes if they didn't agree. Well,

46:28 Speaker 3: now we have the alpha male. They are the top

46:31 Speaker 3: dogs in the universe. So they're not really looking at

46:35 Speaker 3: UFOs as existing and we need to examine the phenomena.

46:42 Speaker 3: We need to find out about it. We don't know

46:45 Speaker 3: if it's friend or foe, or what it is, or

46:47 Speaker 3: whether it's from other planets, or whether it's just something

46:50 Speaker 3: visible it becomes visible once in a while, or what

46:52 Speaker 3: it is. And they're throwing away good observations by saying, well,

46:57 Speaker 3: there's nothing to it. They ought to be collecting the information.

47:02 Speaker 1: Right, So I mean, well you're I mean, what is

47:07 Speaker 1: your take on, say, you know, the David Grush stuff

47:14 Speaker 1: and the potential that we are taking it seriously. But

47:20 Speaker 1: it is so far down in these special access programs

47:26 Speaker 1: and on like unacknowledged programs that that it's happening. I mean,

47:32 Speaker 1: we look at science journals up until you know, the

47:36 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds that or even later that that basically

47:45 Speaker 1: said that you know, they were on track.

47:48 Speaker 2: I might be getting the days wrong.

47:49 Speaker 1: By the way, that they were on track to break

47:52 Speaker 1: gravity back then, and then it just disappeared. And you

48:00 Speaker 1: know what the US government sees is thousands and thousands

48:06 Speaker 1: of patents every year that I have to do with

48:08 Speaker 1: alternative energy.

48:11 Speaker 2: So what what?

48:12 Speaker 3: What?

48:13 Speaker 2: What? What is? Why? You know, what is the reason

48:16 Speaker 2: for all this?

48:17 Speaker 1: Because it's it seems that there's a you know, and

48:21 Speaker 1: you worked with the d i A, but a faction

48:25 Speaker 1: of the government that that might think we're dealing with

48:27 Speaker 1: angels and demons and that's not scientific. We cannot bring

48:31 Speaker 1: religion into this.

48:36 Speaker 3: Yeah, That's what I don't know is when I work

48:38 Speaker 3: for the d i A, I had had ul experiences

48:42 Speaker 3: myself which I didn't talk about, of course, and I

48:46 Speaker 3: even had a very close encounter with somebody else with

48:50 Speaker 3: within THEA who I was working in the d i

48:53 Speaker 3: A and while I was working with aircraft identification actually,

48:57 Speaker 3: but I didn't talk about Can you.

48:59 Speaker 1: Tell me, huh, can you tell me about it?

49:03 Speaker 3: Well? I had in my book my sister and I

49:07 Speaker 3: had a real close encounter. I was working for the

49:10 Speaker 3: DA and she was working she was at Drew University

49:16 Speaker 3: right then, taking postgraduate work. I was in Washington and

49:21 Speaker 3: she was in New York and we took a trip

49:24 Speaker 3: up to New England station just a vacation. We were

49:27 Speaker 3: both on that end of the country and decided to

49:29 Speaker 3: see the country. And when we were we were in Boston,

49:37 Speaker 3: we were playing to stay and look around as yeah.

49:41 Speaker 2: That's where I'm from.

49:43 Speaker 3: Oh, well, you can help me do some research. Then

49:48 Speaker 3: we were in Boston and we were playing to stay

49:50 Speaker 3: all night and travel up and down the coast and

49:55 Speaker 3: see what's going on. So we were leaving Boston. We

50:00 Speaker 3: hadn't been able to find a place to stay, and

50:03 Speaker 3: we were leaving Boston. I think we were on Route nine.

50:06 Speaker 3: We're going called the what was in the Outer Belt

50:09 Speaker 3: I think was one twenty eight then, and we looked

50:14 Speaker 3: to the south and we could see an airport well,

50:18 Speaker 3: we could see airplanes coming in. I think it was

50:21 Speaker 3: Norwood Memorial Airport. And we could see airplanes coming in

50:26 Speaker 3: turning their landing lates on with their green and red

50:29 Speaker 3: wing lights and everything. We were watching them, and there

50:32 Speaker 3: was another thing below it that was just a white

50:36 Speaker 3: light that was blinking, and we kept watching it, and

50:39 Speaker 3: my sister kept saying, that's really weird. And I wasn't

50:42 Speaker 3: watching it too hard. But she said maybe it's a

50:47 Speaker 3: UFO and I laughed at her and said, oh no,

50:50 Speaker 3: it's a helicopter. And we kept driving, and then we

50:52 Speaker 3: went down ninety five. Well, we were going past the

50:58 Speaker 3: woods near and there was this round thing on the

51:03 Speaker 3: ground or close to the ground. It was just a

51:07 Speaker 3: sphere and it was changing colors and it was like

51:11 Speaker 3: it had a It was like it was shades of

51:14 Speaker 3: blue and shades of red and the purple and kept

51:18 Speaker 3: changing colors, and I wondered what on earth that was.

51:21 Speaker 3: And then the inside of our car turned green and

51:26 Speaker 3: it stayed green for a while. And I mean, we

51:31 Speaker 3: had both seen UFOs before, but we didn't know anything

51:36 Speaker 3: about him, and I hadn't done a research, and so

51:38 Speaker 3: we kept on going. The green went away, and then

51:42 Speaker 3: we My sister started screaming at me that this thing

51:47 Speaker 3: was gonna come over the road, and I kept saying,

51:49 Speaker 3: it's a helicopter, and finally, so finally I pulled over

51:55 Speaker 3: because she was yelling at me, and then I saw

51:58 Speaker 3: it and it was this big, close thing with seven

52:03 Speaker 3: square windows and a little tiny red light on one end

52:07 Speaker 3: and a little tiny green light on the other that

52:09 Speaker 3: didn't blink, and it came slowly over the road, and

52:14 Speaker 3: I had I had never I had a Polaroid that

52:18 Speaker 3: had high speed film, but I didn't have a film

52:20 Speaker 3: in the camera because I didn't think I was seeing anything.

52:22 Speaker 3: So I had to get out and grab the find

52:25 Speaker 3: the film in the camera and get it loaded and everything.

52:29 Speaker 3: And then a truck driver came over and parked right

52:32 Speaker 3: in front of us and came back and said, what

52:36 Speaker 3: are you looking at? And you know, I didn't want

52:40 Speaker 3: to say UFO in front of a strange truck driver

52:43 Speaker 3: or anything, and so I pointed he looked in the

52:47 Speaker 3: opposite direction and just rotated around and looked the opposite direction.

52:49 Speaker 3: Said I don't see anything. Then he rotated back, looked

52:53 Speaker 3: at me and said, what are you doing or something.

52:55 Speaker 3: I did the same thing. He did the same thing,

52:58 Speaker 3: and then he gave me emotion like I waszy and

53:00 Speaker 3: went back to his truck. Well, then this this thing,

53:07 Speaker 3: it was pretty big when we were talking to him

53:11 Speaker 3: and close, and I couldn't figure out why you couldn't

53:14 Speaker 3: see it, but he kept looking in the opposite direction.

53:17 Speaker 3: So then it started circling the airport and we could

53:22 Speaker 3: see the airplanes up above, which weren't landing at the time,

53:27 Speaker 3: and it had a particular little design it was traveling

53:34 Speaker 3: in where it would travel so fast you couldn't see it,

53:36 Speaker 3: and then it'd take a half circle and blink twice

53:39 Speaker 3: and anyway. So I decided to get in the car

53:43 Speaker 3: and drive sat and then turn around the next intersection

53:48 Speaker 3: come back because I thought it was going to go

53:50 Speaker 3: north that had been going south. So we did. The

53:52 Speaker 3: truck driver do right in behind us. He started chasing us.

53:57 Speaker 3: If I slowed down, he slowed down. If I sped up,

53:59 Speaker 3: he sped up, and I couldn't get rid of him.

54:03 Speaker 3: And he was right on my bump where he was

54:04 Speaker 3: shining his bright lights in my mirror.

54:08 Speaker 2: Could you pause for one moment?

54:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry that the dogs just started

55:35 Speaker 1: freaking out.

55:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so.

55:43 Speaker 1: The craft starts. So wait, I'm sorry the truck driver.

55:50 Speaker 1: You can't shake him, No, he was.

55:53 Speaker 3: He was chasing us, and I couldn't get rid of him,

55:56 Speaker 3: and I thought, oh, is that your dog again? And

55:59 Speaker 3: I thought you were going to die. And I found

56:01 Speaker 3: it a real dangerous maneuver and got rid of him,

56:05 Speaker 3: and then we went back, but we couldn't see the

56:10 Speaker 3: UFO close again, and we wound up chasing it down

56:13 Speaker 3: this real bad country road, gravel and bumps and everything,

56:17 Speaker 3: and finally we had to turn around and leave. But

56:22 Speaker 3: I did to get pictures of it, which weren't good,

56:25 Speaker 3: but I published them in a scientific journal.

56:28 Speaker 2: So I could get those pictures.

56:31 Speaker 3: It wasn't a good picture, but it doesn't matter. I

56:34 Speaker 3: was using a polaroid and I could take a time exposure,

56:39 Speaker 3: and I was able to take a time exposure, and

56:43 Speaker 3: at the time I just saw one light. It was

56:45 Speaker 3: a distance away, and so I could see it was

56:48 Speaker 3: just this one blinking light. But the time exposure showed

56:52 Speaker 3: two lights, and so I thought there was a light

56:57 Speaker 3: that was not in the visible range on the object.

57:00 Speaker 3: And that's what I wrote about in the Center Journal.

57:03 Speaker 3: They didn't have lasers back then.

57:05 Speaker 2: Right, So do you think that.

57:09 Speaker 1: The truck driver was in able unable to see it,

57:15 Speaker 1: or do you think that there was something more sinister

57:20 Speaker 1: about it?

57:21 Speaker 3: Well? I wondered for many, many years, and he repeated

57:25 Speaker 3: the thing. I mean, he never looked in that direction.

57:27 Speaker 3: He asked me twice, what's going on? Then he looked

57:30 Speaker 3: in the opposite direction, said I don't see anything. Which

57:33 Speaker 3: made me think something's wrong here. I mean I thought

57:36 Speaker 3: that first on the first time, but then just recently

57:40 Speaker 3: my sister found we found several letters that we'd written

57:43 Speaker 3: in the family about it. But this was back in

57:46 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, before there were you know, Internet or

57:54 Speaker 3: anything like that. Film letters like I found one my

57:58 Speaker 3: mother had written to an relative. But then we just

58:01 Speaker 3: recently found when my sister had written to my mother

58:03 Speaker 3: that very day the next day and described it and

58:10 Speaker 3: finally ask her did you see that man? And she

58:16 Speaker 3: didn't know he was there, So, I mean, she knew

58:21 Speaker 3: when he chased us that he was there, but she

58:24 Speaker 3: didn't know that I was talking to him, and so

58:28 Speaker 3: it made me definitely think that he was something that

58:35 Speaker 3: had to do with the UFO and not just some

58:39 Speaker 3: accidental truck driver.

58:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so when you say truck driver, what are

58:45 Speaker 1: we talking about?

58:46 Speaker 2: What kind of truck?

58:47 Speaker 3: It was like a big U hole. I mean, I

58:50 Speaker 3: when it happened, I didn't notice to pay attention to

58:52 Speaker 3: the truck because I didn't know he was going to

58:54 Speaker 3: chase us.

58:55 Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying, is it your sister didn't know

59:00 Speaker 1: that this big truck had pulled.

59:01 Speaker 3: Over No, she knew pulled over and she did not see.

59:05 Speaker 2: You talking with the man. Huh. That is interesting.

59:12 Speaker 3: Well, it's something I out recently. I thought she was

59:15 Speaker 3: talking to him too, and that she knew it, and

59:17 Speaker 3: I just found out recently she didn't know it.

59:20 Speaker 2: So there's almost that's a.

59:25 Speaker 1: That's a data point that just it's hard to wrap

59:30 Speaker 1: your head around.

59:31 Speaker 3: Sure is that really?

59:36 Speaker 2: Really is fretty weird? And so you said that where

59:40 Speaker 2: was this happening.

59:43 Speaker 3: It was happening to the east of the Norwood Memorial

59:48 Speaker 3: Airport in Aroute ninety five.

59:51 Speaker 2: Right, Well, I am in okay, so.

59:56 Speaker 1: Nor Would Memorial. Okay, So this is a very small,

1:00:09 Speaker 1: small airport. Yeah, all right, that makes sense because I

1:00:14 Speaker 1: grew up next to Hanskom Air Force Base and that

1:00:19 Speaker 1: is uh it's south southwest of of of where you're

1:00:29 Speaker 1: not now northeast of northwest of where you're talking about.

1:00:36 Speaker 2: I might have might have backwards.

1:00:40 Speaker 1: But that that is very interesting because there were there

1:00:48 Speaker 1: there's been similar I'm making a movie right now, and

1:00:54 Speaker 1: there was a woman who was abducted in that same

1:00:58 Speaker 1: area of nor Wood and the what you just described

1:01:06 Speaker 1: is is is very similar to the craft that she described.

1:01:12 Speaker 2: Specifically what turned out.

1:01:14 Speaker 3: After I, after this came out, did research. There were

1:01:18 Speaker 3: several things that were like that to my surprise, so

1:01:24 Speaker 3: like what well, for one thing, I didn't know what

1:01:28 Speaker 3: the round thing was, and I looked up and there

1:01:34 Speaker 3: was a book called the bluff Ledge Abductions, which was

1:01:42 Speaker 3: encounter in bluff I guess, yes, was far from where

1:01:47 Speaker 3: this was pretty close at the same time, and it

1:01:52 Speaker 3: involved a UFO plus these round things that were flying

1:01:57 Speaker 3: around just like it just exactly what I saw, and

1:02:01 Speaker 3: I had no idea what it was. But then there

1:02:03 Speaker 3: was a sharing encounter also where there were these roundings

1:02:07 Speaker 3: like I saw and I didn't know. I didn't have

1:02:11 Speaker 3: any idea what it was, but it sounded like other

1:02:14 Speaker 3: people would reported something like that. But then with a

1:02:16 Speaker 3: big thing, it was just like it was levitating right,

1:02:24 Speaker 3: no sound, no wings, no anything else.

1:02:28 Speaker 1: Would sort you know, not to not to try to

1:02:32 Speaker 1: put meaning onto it, but the the phenomenon that happened

1:02:38 Speaker 1: to you while driving when the car like lit up

1:02:42 Speaker 1: green and you saw the thing. I'm wondering if that,

1:02:47 Speaker 1: you know, like almost like shape shifted into what would

1:02:49 Speaker 1: later be the truck.

1:02:52 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know because it could be. You know,

1:02:56 Speaker 3: I'm wondering more about it now than I did before.

1:03:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be interested to look more, help you look

1:03:04 Speaker 1: more further into that, because I mean that that that

1:03:07 Speaker 1: hits that hits home and literally it's home.

1:03:12 Speaker 2: So uh.

1:03:13 Speaker 1: The other UFO encounters that you've had were those back

1:03:20 Speaker 1: in Ohio.

1:03:23 Speaker 3: Most of them were My sister and I had one

1:03:27 Speaker 3: long before we heard UFOs when we were just tiny

1:03:29 Speaker 3: children of having something flying around their bedroom, and we

1:03:35 Speaker 3: both remember it still very well.

1:03:39 Speaker 1: Do you it seems that there's a commonality here that

1:03:43 Speaker 1: you and your sister, your sister and yourself when that

1:03:50 Speaker 1: that when you're together you you experienced this phenomenon or

1:03:58 Speaker 1: or or I mean you were with her both turns

1:04:03 Speaker 1: that that seems Does that strike you as odd?

1:04:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, because they say that another book that didn't. We

1:04:12 Speaker 3: never heard of UFOs or anything back then, so we

1:04:14 Speaker 3: talked about it because you know, now you don't talk

1:04:16 Speaker 3: about UFOs, but back then we don't know. With the UFO,

1:04:19 Speaker 3: we talked about and we told our relatives and everything else,

1:04:22 Speaker 3: and everybody remembered because we were terrified. But it just

1:04:28 Speaker 3: we just had two together and every time we see

1:04:32 Speaker 3: each other which is all the time. We don't. We

1:04:34 Speaker 3: both moved back to our old farm, but we've never

1:04:38 Speaker 3: seen any more together besides just twice. But they say

1:04:43 Speaker 3: that people that have repeated experiences often start with children

1:04:49 Speaker 3: having experiences in their bedroom, and usually this is by themselves,

1:04:57 Speaker 3: and then their parents say, well, you're lying, you had

1:04:59 Speaker 3: a dream. Well, in our case, we weren't talking to

1:05:02 Speaker 3: each other. This thing was in there and we both

1:05:04 Speaker 3: became terrified and ran out of the room. And it

1:05:09 Speaker 3: wasn't like one of us dreaming. We both saw the same.

1:05:12 Speaker 1: Thing, right, And when two people see the same thing,

1:05:20 Speaker 1: it is you. There's no such thing as shared hallucination. No,

1:05:28 Speaker 1: there's no such thing.

1:05:30 Speaker 3: We were even talking about it. I didn't know she

1:05:32 Speaker 3: saw it, and she didn't know I saw it.

1:05:34 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I hate when people bring up to

1:05:38 Speaker 1: try to say that that is a causality as a

1:05:42 Speaker 1: shared hallucination, because it does not happen. It just simply

1:05:47 Speaker 1: doesn't happen unless I mean, no, there is no one less,

1:05:54 Speaker 1: it's just there's it's just not a possibility. Whatever you

1:05:59 Speaker 1: were seeing was really there, and you said it was

1:06:03 Speaker 1: moving around your bedroom. Do you think this could be

1:06:06 Speaker 1: a screen? Memory of sort, and.

1:06:09 Speaker 2: That it wasn't actually just a light, that it was

1:06:13 Speaker 2: an actual entity.

1:06:16 Speaker 3: Well, we lived out the way out in the country

1:06:19 Speaker 3: at the time. We had gravel road and horses and

1:06:22 Speaker 3: things like that, so it wasn't, you know, from traffic

1:06:27 Speaker 3: or anything like that on the road, because there wasn't

1:06:29 Speaker 3: any and the traffic wouldn't show into our bedroom anyway.

1:06:35 Speaker 3: It was there was no storm going on, And I

1:06:39 Speaker 3: have reasons to know that. We were just tiny kids.

1:06:43 Speaker 3: And I just woke up and the thing was flying

1:06:46 Speaker 3: around the room, and I wondered what it was, and

1:06:49 Speaker 3: I just had an innerst in it. And after a

1:06:52 Speaker 3: while it flew around the room and got close to

1:06:55 Speaker 3: both of us, and I noticed that it seemed to

1:06:58 Speaker 3: be able to see the room was dark, that it

1:07:01 Speaker 3: would avoid the furniture and go toward a wall and

1:07:03 Speaker 3: then a turn and avoid furniture and things, and you know,

1:07:08 Speaker 3: I'm just curious, what on earth is. It flowed to

1:07:11 Speaker 3: the ceiling. It flew across the ceiling and then there

1:07:15 Speaker 3: was a light a chandelier there, and it was an

1:07:19 Speaker 3: attic with the walls slanting up in a space between

1:07:23 Speaker 3: the two walls and the chandelier. Was down and there

1:07:26 Speaker 3: the chandelier was turned off, but it knew where the

1:07:29 Speaker 3: chandelier was, and it starts circling the chandelier and it

1:07:33 Speaker 3: didn't bump in the walls or anything. It knew where

1:07:35 Speaker 3: it was. And then it just came down a spiral.

1:07:38 Speaker 3: And then at that time I became absolutely terrified, and

1:07:43 Speaker 3: so did my sister, and we both start screaming and

1:07:47 Speaker 3: ran out of the room and it was upstairs, and

1:07:49 Speaker 3: we were so terrified we it fell down the stairs

1:07:54 Speaker 3: and then we got the managed to get the door

1:07:56 Speaker 3: open and ran to our parents screaming, and they didn't

1:07:59 Speaker 3: believe us, even though there were two of us. So right, it's.

1:08:06 Speaker 1: They're right, right, it's that mindset that their parents have, like, oh,

1:08:11 Speaker 1: you know, you're just skidded. Yeah, I did scary dream

1:08:15 Speaker 1: and you know, uh, it's the rationalization that the right

1:08:20 Speaker 1: brain right, trying to trying to categorize things.

1:08:24 Speaker 3: But we both saw them, and yeah, that becaied at

1:08:29 Speaker 3: the same time, So I thought there was some kind

1:08:31 Speaker 3: of mind control. Neither of us knew how it got

1:08:34 Speaker 3: in the room. The door was was closed in, the

1:08:36 Speaker 3: window had a screen, and I just woke up and

1:08:39 Speaker 3: it was there and so did she, So we didn't

1:08:42 Speaker 3: know what happened before anything, but we both it was

1:08:45 Speaker 3: like we both started watching it about the same time.

1:08:48 Speaker 3: She thought she started watching first, and then suddenly we

1:08:53 Speaker 3: both became absolutely terrified, and it was like there was

1:08:56 Speaker 3: mind control or something.

1:08:58 Speaker 2: Right right now. Were you sleeping and then awoken or

1:09:04 Speaker 2: were you you know, just going to bed?

1:09:08 Speaker 3: No, I was sleeping and woke up saw it.

1:09:12 Speaker 2: Wow, it was dark, so it woke you up because

1:09:18 Speaker 2: of the light.

1:09:19 Speaker 3: No idea, both of us woke up. That was another

1:09:22 Speaker 3: thing that was strange, is we both woke up. It

1:09:24 Speaker 3: was in the room.

1:09:27 Speaker 2: What was telling you to wake up? Mhm, what was

1:09:31 Speaker 2: telling you to wake up?

1:09:33 Speaker 3: No idea at that that you know?

1:09:37 Speaker 2: And h at About what time did this occur?

1:09:41 Speaker 1: Uh?

1:09:42 Speaker 2: She thought she was if you can recall.

1:09:44 Speaker 3: You young to be in school, and I thought I

1:09:47 Speaker 3: was maybe in school, but I didn't remember.

1:09:49 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm sorry. In summertime time frame, like

1:09:54 Speaker 2: like like uh on o'clock.

1:09:57 Speaker 3: Uh, I'd say maybe it was completely dark and it

1:10:00 Speaker 3: was in the summertime, so I'd say maybe around eleven

1:10:04 Speaker 3: or something. I'm not sure, ten or eleven when.

1:10:08 Speaker 2: So ten or eleven in the summertime in Ohio. Mm hm,

1:10:16 Speaker 2: very interesting, very like I said, I.

1:10:19 Speaker 3: Mean it's next door to where I live now. Actually

1:10:22 Speaker 3: it was my parents' farm. Is that is next door

1:10:30 Speaker 3: to where it happened now?

1:10:34 Speaker 2: Right? Is that where you?

1:10:36 Speaker 1: Is that the what set you off on this? Because

1:10:41 Speaker 1: it's pretty it's safe to say you've had a very

1:10:43 Speaker 1: very very elusive and successful career outside of this. You know,

1:10:54 Speaker 1: for someone like you two two uh out on the surface,

1:11:02 Speaker 1: be open about talking about this. You know, it's it

1:11:07 Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't you know, add to your credibility, at

1:11:14 Speaker 1: least in past years, right, you know, it's it's not

1:11:18 Speaker 1: like you had a financial gain by doing by coming

1:11:22 Speaker 1: out and and and talking about this and discussing this. So,

1:11:28 Speaker 1: you know, a person of your caliber, why why.

1:11:35 Speaker 2: Why did you? Why did you come and and get

1:11:39 Speaker 2: into this community?

1:11:41 Speaker 3: Well? I did. I went into science. I was in

1:11:44 Speaker 3: science for my career for my whole life. Then I

1:11:48 Speaker 3: came close to retirement, and you know, I mean didn't

1:11:52 Speaker 3: want to look you know, insane. Especially I was used.

1:11:55 Speaker 3: I was in a lot of jobs where I was

1:11:57 Speaker 3: the only female, and I didn't want to say I

1:12:00 Speaker 3: see UFOs too. But as I got closer and closer

1:12:03 Speaker 3: to retirement, I came out a little bit of the closet.

1:12:06 Speaker 3: And then when I retired, I came further out of

1:12:10 Speaker 3: the closet. And now you can kind of talk about

1:12:14 Speaker 3: it with everybody saying you're crazy.

1:12:16 Speaker 1: Yes, and that that's the key thing is and and

1:12:20 Speaker 1: and and I really really respect that, you know, being

1:12:24 Speaker 1: a woman. You know, in the the eighties and nineties

1:12:30 Speaker 1: and even the early two thousands, you know, it was

1:12:34 Speaker 1: hard enough in the professional world, especially in in you know,

1:12:39 Speaker 1: mainstream science, you know big science, uh, mainstream science, so too.

1:12:46 Speaker 2: To to get a role, to get that, you know,

1:12:49 Speaker 2: to be in that degree.

1:12:51 Speaker 1: And then you know, sabotage it by saying, you know,

1:12:54 Speaker 1: I see UFOs when at a time when you know,

1:12:57 Speaker 1: the government was still saying that. You know that that's

1:13:01 Speaker 1: all you know, conspiracy theory, you know Country Bumpkin, you know,

1:13:09 Speaker 1: poke fun at Whitley Strieber kind of thing.

1:13:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I didn't talk about it until I was

1:13:17 Speaker 3: safely close to retirement.

1:13:20 Speaker 1: Did you monitor it, like, you know, were you aware

1:13:26 Speaker 1: of what was happening? Did you keep up on cases?

1:13:30 Speaker 2: Did you know?

1:13:31 Speaker 3: No, you just just I kind of paid attention to

1:13:36 Speaker 3: it when I was working, but I didn't pay too

1:13:38 Speaker 3: much attention because I had, you know, my career, to

1:13:43 Speaker 3: worry about my family, to worry about everything else, and

1:13:45 Speaker 3: so I didn't. It wasn't uppermost in my mind, except

1:13:48 Speaker 3: for I had a sighting and that made me pay

1:13:52 Speaker 3: more attention to it later.

1:13:55 Speaker 2: So you've been to Ripe out right? What did you

1:14:01 Speaker 2: what did you see there?

1:14:07 Speaker 3: Where? Did I see?

1:14:09 Speaker 1: What? What?

1:14:09 Speaker 2: What? What was it like to be on a base

1:14:12 Speaker 2: like that?

1:14:12 Speaker 1: Where so much of the the lore if you want

1:14:18 Speaker 1: to say, you know, the wreckage from Area fifty one

1:14:21 Speaker 1: supposedly end up there, I mean the wreckage from Roswell

1:14:24 Speaker 1: not here if if you want, but uh, you know,

1:14:28 Speaker 1: as well as any craft that was retrieved by other nations.

1:14:34 Speaker 1: I mean I retrieved that was uh you know, owned

1:14:37 Speaker 1: by other nations for us to you know that that

1:14:40 Speaker 1: was the home of Project Blue Book.

1:14:42 Speaker 2: You know what was that base like? And did you

1:14:46 Speaker 2: see anything out of the ordinary?

1:14:49 Speaker 3: Well? Actually I was actually in what they considered the

1:14:52 Speaker 3: Blue Room. I didn't know at the time, but I

1:14:57 Speaker 3: had been acquainted with the the Wright Patterson archives, and

1:15:04 Speaker 3: he showed us around and showed us including having inviting

1:15:09 Speaker 3: us to go to a meeting about UFOs and the

1:15:13 Speaker 3: Blue Room, which another person I wrote up in a

1:15:17 Speaker 3: magazine we were doing at that time. I didn't know

1:15:21 Speaker 3: it was a blue room. It was just published later

1:15:23 Speaker 3: that this building was considered the Blue Room. But I

1:15:26 Speaker 3: think that's where the where the project Bluebook and everything

1:15:36 Speaker 3: took place.

1:15:38 Speaker 2: Wow, So you s so that's that's I mean, that's

1:15:44 Speaker 2: got to be interesting.

1:15:45 Speaker 3: Yeah. I was very escorted though, so.

1:15:52 Speaker 2: In any place, not too not too many chances to

1:15:55 Speaker 2: carouse around.

1:15:57 Speaker 3: But there were a lot of monitors and out side

1:16:00 Speaker 3: there were monitors all over there, monitors on the roof,

1:16:03 Speaker 3: and monitors in the parking lot and everything else. Which

1:16:06 Speaker 3: this is this building I had been on at Right

1:16:09 Speaker 3: Patterson before because it's part of just my work. They

1:16:13 Speaker 3: sent me the right Patterson the meetings sometimes, and I'd

1:16:17 Speaker 3: noticed that building before, but this was in the secured area,

1:16:21 Speaker 3: and in the secured area, this building was really monitored,

1:16:24 Speaker 3: so I'd noticed that way before that they didn't room around.

1:16:32 Speaker 3: I did see things like that would suggest they were

1:16:35 Speaker 3: underground facilities, which I'm sure there were, because they would have.

1:16:41 Speaker 3: You know, it's a highly secured base and they have,

1:16:44 Speaker 3: they'd have to take things underground if there was an

1:16:46 Speaker 3: earthquaker they bombed or anything else. So I'm sure there

1:16:49 Speaker 3: are lots of underground facilities, but I heard all kinds

1:16:52 Speaker 3: of things, but I didn't get to see any of them.

1:16:56 Speaker 2: Right, But they're safe to say that that that this

1:17:01 Speaker 2: this base is is heavily monitored.

1:17:05 Speaker 3: Now where I was, it's very secure. You can't get

1:17:07 Speaker 3: in there now, but you could back then, right.

1:17:10 Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, So there's a current push in the

1:17:20 Speaker 1: government for more transparency and yeah, you know, things like

1:17:27 Speaker 1: the U a p. Caucus have been created h by

1:17:30 Speaker 1: a friend of the show, Tim Burchett, you know, Marco Rubio.

1:17:35 Speaker 1: Marco Rubio. Now, I'm not, I'm not. I want to

1:17:39 Speaker 1: make this abundantly clear, and it's sad to that I

1:17:46 Speaker 1: have to do this. But there is a very very

1:17:54 Speaker 1: high probability that Marco Rubio, who has also been very

1:17:58 Speaker 1: outspoken and at least engaging in this topic, that he

1:18:05 Speaker 1: could end up as Trump's running mate. If Trump were

1:18:10 Speaker 1: to win and Marco Rubio were to be the vice president,

1:18:15 Speaker 1: as his outspoken nature has been so far, do you

1:18:19 Speaker 1: expect that it would just be another case of you know,

1:18:26 Speaker 1: Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton all who

1:18:30 Speaker 1: promised to dig into the files and then just basically

1:18:35 Speaker 1: shut up about it. Or do you think that this

1:18:38 Speaker 1: could actually be a chess move that the UAP Caucus

1:18:45 Speaker 1: and those in the government that are seeking transparency. Do

1:18:50 Speaker 1: you think that this could be a move made?

1:18:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're getting a little bit closer than

1:18:59 Speaker 3: they ever were. They seem to be retracting too, and

1:19:03 Speaker 3: so I don't know. I know lots of people have

1:19:10 Speaker 3: gone through UFOs and died and the government had always

1:19:13 Speaker 3: opposed them and told them they were crazy. Now it's

1:19:16 Speaker 3: a little bit different, But I hope it things change

1:19:20 Speaker 3: because it's something that people should know about, because something

1:19:22 Speaker 3: that happens to people, and why should you throw away

1:19:26 Speaker 3: all that information? You need to know what's going on.

1:19:31 Speaker 2: And it's important that something like this. Who gave.

1:19:41 Speaker 1: The right to any government of any world, to ever,

1:19:48 Speaker 1: any authoritative figure, whether it's the church, whether it's this

1:19:53 Speaker 1: or that, no one should have the rights to life

1:20:04 Speaker 1: altering information like this are like, I mean, there's three

1:20:14 Speaker 1: questions right that every human's ever had and has a

1:20:19 Speaker 1: vested interest in all three rights.

1:20:21 Speaker 3: Are we alone?

1:20:23 Speaker 1: What happens after we die?

1:20:25 Speaker 2: And what the hell is consciousness?

1:20:27 Speaker 3: Right?

1:20:28 Speaker 1: And we have a vested interest in all three and

1:20:31 Speaker 1: it would change the world. And by answering one, we

1:20:33 Speaker 1: could essentially maybe answer the other two in a way.

1:20:38 Speaker 1: You know, by unlocking one door, we might get a

1:20:40 Speaker 1: little bit closer unlocking the other doors.

1:20:42 Speaker 2: So if the government is holding that withholding.

1:20:46 Speaker 1: That type of secret, either A it's for greed power

1:20:50 Speaker 1: and some sort of you know, advantage, or B the

1:20:54 Speaker 1: secrecy is needed because of some sort of existential threat

1:21:00 Speaker 1: to society. But my so in your experience, what would

1:21:07 Speaker 1: be the more likely?

1:21:09 Speaker 2: I mean, and.

1:21:13 Speaker 1: Again my point being there there there should never have

1:21:18 Speaker 1: been a cover up or or or anything to begin with.

1:21:22 Speaker 2: This is not something that that should be hidden from

1:21:28 Speaker 2: the citizen.

1:21:31 Speaker 3: Oh, I totally agree. I mean, if we don't know anything,

1:21:35 Speaker 3: we can't do anything about it. Maybe we can't anyway,

1:21:37 Speaker 3: but we should still know. But I think there's a

1:21:39 Speaker 3: third alternative there, and that is maybe the government is

1:21:44 Speaker 3: subject to thought control, or maybe somebody high in the

1:21:47 Speaker 3: government is afraid of something related to UFOs, and I

1:21:51 Speaker 3: think you should consider that too.

1:21:53 Speaker 1: Well, that's where I go back to this thing where

1:21:57 Speaker 1: I mean, even Tucker Carlson viewpoint now that it's angels

1:22:03 Speaker 1: and demons like and you know this very evangelical Christian belief,

1:22:12 Speaker 1: this core that's in them things that were dabbling with demons,

1:22:18 Speaker 1: and it's.

1:22:19 Speaker 2: It's honestly, we can't afford that kind of thinking.

1:22:26 Speaker 3: Well, they always thought that, I mean up until just

1:22:29 Speaker 3: in the recent century, they always thought disease had something

1:22:33 Speaker 3: to do with demons. I mean demons, you know, cause

1:22:36 Speaker 3: disease as ye, So if you can't explain something to

1:22:41 Speaker 3: say it's demons, but we should be exploring the wrath.

1:22:46 Speaker 1: Of God or right, And it's just it does make

1:22:52 Speaker 1: you wonder though where the cover up started. Was it

1:22:55 Speaker 1: governments or was it more likely the church? Because if

1:23:00 Speaker 1: you think about it, who was the original authority the church,

1:23:05 Speaker 1: right or before that the you know, not dictator but

1:23:12 Speaker 1: the but the king and you know, a religious order

1:23:16 Speaker 1: and you know this hierarchy, hierarchy, I can't say this, right, hierarchy,

1:23:24 Speaker 1: hierarchy structure.

1:23:26 Speaker 2: That always had a male on top.

1:23:30 Speaker 1: Right, So whenever it began, I think that you know,

1:23:38 Speaker 1: when when the truth does come to light, uh, you know,

1:23:43 Speaker 1: it's obviously it's gonna be a hard to pinpoint when

1:23:46 Speaker 1: this all, you know, began to be covered up. But

1:23:49 Speaker 1: do you think that people that are in the know

1:23:52 Speaker 1: should be held responsible for for for basically I would

1:23:58 Speaker 1: consider crimes against humanity. And we're using oil and people

1:24:01 Speaker 1: are freezing to death in the winter, and we find

1:24:03 Speaker 1: out that there's some sort of zero point energy that

1:24:07 Speaker 1: literally could have solved all the world's problems.

1:24:11 Speaker 3: Well, if we were doing things besides having wars, we

1:24:13 Speaker 3: could solve a lot of the world's problems. Now, I mean,

1:24:16 Speaker 3: we're spending all this time fighting wars and making weapons,

1:24:20 Speaker 3: and we should be doing something intalented or.

1:24:23 Speaker 2: Funding proxy wars in Israel.

1:24:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, basically funding both sides, right, Palestine and Israel, and

1:24:34 Speaker 1: signing another extension for the next ten years to fund

1:24:39 Speaker 1: Ukraine with weaponry. And now shouldn't we be paying to

1:24:44 Speaker 1: try to resolve the situation instead of fund fighting and

1:24:49 Speaker 1: keep the fight going. I could see what kind of

1:24:53 Speaker 1: lunacy are we? What type of luninancy is that?

1:24:59 Speaker 3: Well, that's what it about in my book that I

1:25:02 Speaker 3: don't think we began with men sharpening up rocks and

1:25:06 Speaker 3: you know, killing things. I think we began with women

1:25:09 Speaker 3: being able to figure out how to symbolize reality, and

1:25:15 Speaker 3: that's our strength. We can think in symbols, which makes

1:25:19 Speaker 3: language and everything else. And so I think we have

1:25:21 Speaker 3: a different start than is presented, but we're still solving

1:25:27 Speaker 3: our problems, this old way of making bigger weapons and

1:25:31 Speaker 3: killing people, right.

1:25:34 Speaker 2: Do you think that? Do you think that that's why

1:25:38 Speaker 2: historically that women tend to be.

1:25:43 Speaker 1: More in tune with maybe psychic phenomena and the paranormal.

1:25:53 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's more easier for women to talk

1:25:56 Speaker 3: about it because you don't have to worry about women

1:26:01 Speaker 3: aren't working, and so they don't have to face all

1:26:03 Speaker 3: the gears of somebody you know, working to say, oh,

1:26:06 Speaker 3: you're crazy and all that right, and they may be

1:26:10 Speaker 3: more truthful too.

1:26:12 Speaker 1: Well. I mean, I'm working on a movie about, you know,

1:26:15 Speaker 1: with you know, Salem, the witch Trials all albeit that

1:26:20 Speaker 1: you know, it was greed and corruption in Massysteria, that

1:26:26 Speaker 1: that that caused that. But the witches were practicing witchcraft.

1:26:32 Speaker 1: It just wasn't uh dark arts kind of which you know,

1:26:36 Speaker 1: satanic witchcraft.

1:26:37 Speaker 2: It was folk magic.

1:26:39 Speaker 1: And you know the same people that employed them to

1:26:43 Speaker 1: bless the ships for you know, plunder and good wins

1:26:49 Speaker 1: and you know, riches that same town turned against them,

1:26:55 Speaker 1: right and and it and I mean it just goes

1:26:58 Speaker 1: to show you. And you know, ironically, the Salem witch

1:27:02 Speaker 1: childs were stopped only once the mayor's wife was accused

1:27:07 Speaker 1: of witchcraft, ironically enough. And you know, at the same

1:27:13 Speaker 1: time you have King Philip's war, right, so another war

1:27:19 Speaker 1: you know, against the natives. And and this this, this

1:27:24 Speaker 1: this area of of New England, I think is home

1:27:31 Speaker 1: to some of the oldest paranormal curses known to modern humans.

1:27:41 Speaker 1: Uh there's something unique about this area. You've you experienced it,

1:27:48 Speaker 1: You've you know, you experienced something here.

1:27:52 Speaker 3: We just went through for a day and we had

1:27:54 Speaker 3: a big experience.

1:27:56 Speaker 2: And a lot of other people have as well. And

1:28:00 Speaker 2: you know that that's that's that's my that that you know,

1:28:03 Speaker 2: that's my bread and butter right there. And that's what

1:28:05 Speaker 2: I'm focusing on. So I find it. I find it

1:28:08 Speaker 2: very interesting. But uh so, how can people.

1:28:14 Speaker 1: Get your book? And why should they? Why should they

1:28:18 Speaker 1: read this?

1:28:19 Speaker 3: Well, they can get my book through Amazon Com. It's this.

1:28:27 Speaker 1: And I like that.

1:28:28 Speaker 3: I like that cover, thank you, yuh A good artist

1:28:32 Speaker 3: did it? And why they should read it? This because

1:28:36 Speaker 3: I give a different perspective on how we were created,

1:28:41 Speaker 3: that we may have been created through females developing the

1:28:46 Speaker 3: ability to symbolize and thinking symbols rather than males sharpening

1:28:55 Speaker 3: rocks and stabbing things.

1:28:58 Speaker 1: Right, So it's a it's a different perspective on our

1:29:00 Speaker 1: on our modern uh history that has to do with

1:29:06 Speaker 1: aliens and.

1:29:09 Speaker 2: The apocalypse.

1:29:12 Speaker 1: So as always, uh, doctor Scott, you're always really really

1:29:17 Speaker 1: amazing to have on and you're always welcome back to

1:29:21 Speaker 1: total disclosure. Other than the the book that you have

1:29:27 Speaker 1: out right now, I personally highly recommend your book about

1:29:35 Speaker 1: uh the Pasca Goula case and can you tell people

1:29:38 Speaker 1: about that what it's called? And uh you can get

1:29:41 Speaker 1: it on Amazon as well. But that is a really

1:29:45 Speaker 1: really I mean, beyond a reasonable doubt, is probably one

1:29:49 Speaker 1: of the best case studies, uh and in in in

1:29:56 Speaker 1: history in in that's my opinion.

1:30:01 Speaker 3: Well, it's about an abduction basically, but it's also about

1:30:07 Speaker 3: the UFO phenomena. It happened around fifty years ago. There

1:30:11 Speaker 3: was a huge, huge wave of UFOs that happened at

1:30:16 Speaker 3: the same time, and most close encounters are abductions. There's

1:30:22 Speaker 3: no evidence whatsoever. Somebody saying, well, this might have happened.

1:30:27 Speaker 3: With this, there was a lot of evidence. For example,

1:30:30 Speaker 3: the police person at that time that was taking calls

1:30:34 Speaker 3: said that on that night that it happened, that they

1:30:37 Speaker 3: were fifty calls from people reporting UFOs in that area,

1:30:42 Speaker 3: which is a whole lot of documentation. And we've interviewed

1:30:47 Speaker 3: a whole lot of people and to me, some of

1:30:50 Speaker 3: them sounded like close encounters, are possible abductions too, So

1:30:56 Speaker 3: there was a lot going on then that night. Even

1:31:02 Speaker 3: we call it beyond reasonable doubt because we had enough

1:31:05 Speaker 3: circumstantial evidence that might hold up in court.

1:31:08 Speaker 2: Even I was literally just gonna say that.

1:31:13 Speaker 1: And if fifty people called the police and said we

1:31:19 Speaker 1: just saw someone be murdered, someone get murdered, come on,

1:31:25 Speaker 1: come on.

1:31:26 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:31:28 Speaker 1: So the burden of proof is not on the believer

1:31:33 Speaker 1: or the the UFO, uh, whatever you want to call it, right,

1:31:45 Speaker 1: the burden of proof And you know, I'm obviously taking

1:31:48 Speaker 1: this from doctor Mitchekaku, but the burden of proof is

1:31:52 Speaker 1: clearly shifted from the believer to the non believer or

1:31:55 Speaker 1: skeptic or debunker.

1:31:57 Speaker 2: So with the pascor Ghoula case and the debunkers, I mean,

1:32:02 Speaker 2: what do you have to say to that.

1:32:05 Speaker 3: Well, I think we've got a lot of evidence. Unfortunately,

1:32:10 Speaker 3: the evidence, the direct written evidence of the reports was

1:32:15 Speaker 3: destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. But we've gone back and interviewed

1:32:20 Speaker 3: lots of people who said, yeah, they saw it, and

1:32:25 Speaker 3: some of them told that other people reported and things

1:32:28 Speaker 3: like that, and we have some people that were involved

1:32:32 Speaker 3: in reporting it at that time. Right, So there was

1:32:37 Speaker 3: a lot of evidence that something was flying around that

1:32:42 Speaker 3: people didn't recognize.

1:32:44 Speaker 1: Right, this blue and that's that that's a commonality between

1:32:49 Speaker 1: the sightings, Right, is that blue luminescent light.

1:32:54 Speaker 3: A lot of during that time in nineteen seventy three,

1:32:59 Speaker 3: there were lots of reports of blue objects, not only

1:33:03 Speaker 3: there but in other places too, which is unusual, like

1:33:07 Speaker 3: because it's not an airplane light or blink light er meteor,

1:33:11 Speaker 3: so it was kind of unusual.

1:33:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's it's actually it's that that That is

1:33:17 Speaker 1: what I think stands out very much is that blue

1:33:21 Speaker 1: is not used in.

1:33:24 Speaker 2: Aviation. Uh, it is not used aside from with the police.

1:33:31 Speaker 3: Uh.

1:33:31 Speaker 1: And you know that law enforcement so and and and

1:33:37 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, the police aren't flying UFOs. Let's

1:33:40 Speaker 1: be real, right, Let's come on, go on UH so

1:33:44 Speaker 1: Beyond a Reasonable Doubt is almost the perfect title. The

1:33:47 Speaker 1: links to her description for I mean, the links to

1:33:51 Speaker 1: her books will be in the description below.

1:33:56 Speaker 2: Whether you're listening on UH podcast platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

1:34:03 Speaker 1: Or any other great platform UH be sure to check

1:34:08 Speaker 1: it out get your copy now, as well as reviewing

1:34:12 Speaker 1: the show and leave us leaving us star rating it's

1:34:15 Speaker 1: it's free. It helps us tremendously, and you can follow

1:34:18 Speaker 1: the show so that you don't miss any future uploads.

1:34:21 Speaker 1: This has been such a fun conversation. Thank you, miss

1:34:24 Speaker 1: doctor Scott. You are such a tremendous guest. And what

1:34:29 Speaker 1: what what what does the future hold for you?

1:34:33 Speaker 3: Well, I'm thinking about writing more books and hoping I

1:34:36 Speaker 3: can and hoping to be useful, probably useful, do a

1:34:42 Speaker 3: lot of charity work too.

1:34:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's absolutely amazing. Can't wait to see

1:34:49 Speaker 1: UH what what you come up with? What you come

1:34:51 Speaker 1: up with next. I would really really love to talk

1:34:56 Speaker 1: to you and Philip about doing some sort of documentary,

1:35:03 Speaker 1: but again I think we can talk about that off air,

1:35:07 Speaker 1: but just to the audience, it's fair to assume because

1:35:12 Speaker 1: I have already talked to Philip, so we're definitely going

1:35:15 Speaker 1: to be putting something in the works, and uh, doctor Scott,

1:35:17 Speaker 1: I would love for you to be a part of

1:35:19 Speaker 1: that great So yeah, that would be wonderful And any

1:35:24 Speaker 1: trip I can take to the country, sign me up,

1:35:29 Speaker 1: because now I get a quick question to ask you

1:35:32 Speaker 1: before we before we roll out. Are you in one

1:35:36 Speaker 1: of those areas where when you look up there's not

1:35:40 Speaker 1: light pollution and you can see the stars?

1:35:45 Speaker 3: Not very well? I'm I'm north of Columbus.

1:35:49 Speaker 2: Still some ambient light. Yeah, yeah, that's not.

1:35:53 Speaker 3: You'll see the stars, the main stars and everything.

1:35:56 Speaker 1: But right, yeah, I live living in the city sock

1:36:00 Speaker 1: because you really don't get to see the true I think,

1:36:07 Speaker 1: if any, if everybody, I think there should be one

1:36:10 Speaker 1: day a year where all lights are literally shut off

1:36:16 Speaker 1: for the night and you are forced to look up

1:36:21 Speaker 1: and see the beauty, because I think that a lot

1:36:25 Speaker 1: of people, the majority of folks, are missing out on

1:36:30 Speaker 1: seeing just how beautiful this planet is in relation to

1:36:36 Speaker 1: the universe. We've been handed of paradise, and far too

1:36:42 Speaker 1: many people are concerned with getting into heaven doing this,

1:36:46 Speaker 1: not going to hell, and they don't think about the

1:36:50 Speaker 1: paradise that they've already been handed and the mysteries that

1:36:54 Speaker 1: that we're potentially on the brink of solving like there.

1:36:58 Speaker 1: We have a lot of work to do down here,

1:37:00 Speaker 1: and I think we need to be reminded sometimes that

1:37:03 Speaker 1: we are but a microcosm in the the drop of

1:37:07 Speaker 1: a bucket that is ever expanding, and honestly, I think

1:37:14 Speaker 1: humanity has a lot of growing up to do. Fair

1:37:19 Speaker 1: to say, uh huh, all right, Scott, Doctor Scott, you're amazing.

1:37:24 Speaker 1: All your links will be in the description below. Like

1:37:27 Speaker 1: I said, we'll talk later, we'll talk off camera about

1:37:30 Speaker 1: that project, but I just keep doing what you're doing.

1:37:34 Speaker 1: You bring such credibility to the field in what you

1:37:37 Speaker 1: do and the lengths you're willing to go, the way

1:37:43 Speaker 1: you go about things. You know in the proper scientific as.

1:37:49 Speaker 2: Scientific as you can be when it comes to this topic.

1:37:53 Speaker 1: So you lend a tremendous amount of credibility to anything

1:37:56 Speaker 1: that you're attached to. And I just want to say,

1:37:59 Speaker 1: even if you know no one tells you as often

1:38:02 Speaker 1: as you should, I respect you and what you do

1:38:05 Speaker 1: for the community.

1:38:06 Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much. You do a great job

1:38:08 Speaker 3: of making people aware of a lot of things, and

1:38:13 Speaker 3: you're a deep thinker, and thank you very much.

1:38:16 Speaker 1: I try to be because if we're not right, if

1:38:20 Speaker 1: we're not if we're not, then then then we're wasting.

1:38:24 Speaker 1: You know, people get too caught up in the materialism

1:38:27 Speaker 1: and we need to start thinking on a on a

1:38:30 Speaker 1: different level. So it's been a truly pleasurable conversation and

1:38:36 Speaker 1: we shall talk soon.

1:38:38 Speaker 3: Great.

1:38:38 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, And everyone out there.

1:38:41 Speaker 1: On the stratosphere or the podcast fear, I should say,

1:38:43 Speaker 1: you know what it is. Make sure to like, share, subscribe,

1:38:47 Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time.