EXCLUSIVE: Bryce Zabel on UFO Secrets, After Disclosure & Ross Coulthart’s Next Move

0:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, all your breaks.

0:09 Speaker 2: Where you ready because it's not a plant from you.

0:15 Speaker 2: Love Paris brings you here.

0:20 Speaker 1: So you know your lash screen carey.

0:24 Speaker 3: You are municipal tables.

0:26 Speaker 4: So when it's the dead shot center, that's what I

0:29 Speaker 4: w we are like right here, the wonder will say,

0:32 Speaker 4: you know.

0:33 Speaker 2: Watch or shoot now?

0:35 Speaker 3: So you ready?

0:37 Speaker 2: All right?

0:38 Speaker 3: So thank you for recording.

0:45 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Total.

0:46 Speaker 4: Disclosures coverage at Contact in the Desert. I am super

0:49 Speaker 4: thrilled to be here, especially right now. I'm joined today

0:54 Speaker 4: by one of my personal idols, and not just you

0:59 Speaker 4: know that you have world, but also in the hollyworld

1:02 Speaker 4: world where I came from Emmy winning writer, producer in

1:06 Speaker 4: the creative mind behind the cold classic series Dark Skies.

1:10 Speaker 4: He's also the co host of Me to Know podcast,

1:14 Speaker 4: where he dives deep with Ross coltheart into the UFO phenomena,

1:19 Speaker 4: with ease and what seems to be an uber professionalism.

1:24 Speaker 4: It's been such an inspiration for not only me, put

1:27 Speaker 4: so many in the field.

1:28 Speaker 1: You bring such credibility.

1:30 Speaker 2: So I just want to say thank you guys.

1:31 Speaker 1: For being here with a with an intro like that,

1:33 Speaker 1: I'm a little intimidated, but that's plowed forward.

1:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it's honestly, it's an honor and I've waited

1:41 Speaker 2: for this moment. You know.

1:42 Speaker 4: It's it's weird when you go from watching these things

1:45 Speaker 4: on TV, and you know, watching these people on television

1:50 Speaker 4: talk about the phenomenon, and then you're in the same

1:52 Speaker 4: room and you're the one interviewing them.

1:53 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's reality.

1:56 Speaker 1: The one thing I've learned in Hollywood is anybody who

1:59 Speaker 1: you consider al isn't in their own home or in their.

2:02 Speaker 2: Own minds, and they're just human.

2:04 Speaker 4: Yeah right, Yeah, So I wanted to start off because

2:08 Speaker 4: Dark Skies for me was the first time I think

2:11 Speaker 4: I told you the story.

2:12 Speaker 2: While we were walking around Dark Skies was the first

2:15 Speaker 2: time that my two worlds met. And that's when my

2:19 Speaker 2: because I knew I wanted to be a filmmaker from

2:20 Speaker 2: the first movie I saw, it elicited that visceral reaction

2:24 Speaker 2: in me where I never wanted to be an astronaut,

2:27 Speaker 2: a whistleblower. I never wanted to be any of those things.

2:30 Speaker 2: I wanted to be a filmmaker.

2:31 Speaker 4: Because of how I could generate these emotional feelings in people,

2:35 Speaker 4: whether it's sad and it's comedy, A drama. You know,

2:39 Speaker 4: it was able to do things to me that I

2:42 Speaker 4: didn't think were possible. So when I saw Dark Skies,

2:46 Speaker 4: that combined my love for the unknown and the world

2:49 Speaker 4: of Hollywood.

2:50 Speaker 2: So that premiered in the nineties, way ahead of its time.

2:54 Speaker 4: What inspired this series and how much of it was

2:56 Speaker 4: based on real research.

2:59 Speaker 1: That's a really great question. Well, the truth is, I've

3:04 Speaker 1: always in Hollywood looked for a good story. So it

3:07 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you start with the research and then say, now,

3:10 Speaker 1: let me find.

3:10 Speaker 3: The story for it to sort of find the story

3:12 Speaker 3: and then you try to research around it.

3:15 Speaker 1: But certainly Dark Skys had its I guess its creation

3:19 Speaker 1: was trying to find a unified field theory for conspiracy.

3:24 Speaker 1: And when my co creator Brent Friedman and I were

3:26 Speaker 1: kicking it around, we were trying to develop a series,

3:29 Speaker 1: and we thought, well, what are the two greatest conspiracies

3:32 Speaker 1: of all time? And it's really no context. I mean,

3:35 Speaker 1: it's really JFK and the UFOs. So we thought, what

3:39 Speaker 1: if we stick them in this attic proctor, what will

3:41 Speaker 1: we get? And that's what we got. We've got Dark Skuys.

3:45 Speaker 1: We're in the pilot. It's literally taking place during the

3:49 Speaker 1: JFK's administration. The New Frontier. The very first days is

3:54 Speaker 1: when the main character goes to Washington, d C. He's

3:57 Speaker 1: an idealistic young management many people were during the JFK period,

4:03 Speaker 1: and he gets assigned by the congressman he's working for

4:07 Speaker 1: to go find something that they can cut from the budget,

4:10 Speaker 1: with the idea being Project Bluebook. And he does his

4:13 Speaker 1: job too well and he ends up getting himself recruited

4:17 Speaker 1: into Majestic twelve. He finds a piece of the Roswell

4:20 Speaker 1: Craft and in the pilot he gets that piece to JFK,

4:23 Speaker 1: and in the final scene of the pilot, JFK is killed.

4:26 Speaker 3: So it's pretty radical stuff. In fact, it's funny.

4:29 Speaker 1: When this first came out, one of the reviews called

4:32 Speaker 1: it the most subversive show on television, and in reality,

4:36 Speaker 1: it was pretty subversive if you think about that.

4:38 Speaker 3: And what's interesting is when Brand and I were putting.

4:41 Speaker 1: This together, you know, there wasn't an Internet that you

4:44 Speaker 1: could go to to say, you know, you couldn't put

4:46 Speaker 1: in keywords JFK UFOs and see what came up. There

4:50 Speaker 1: was no chat GPT write me some dialogue about JFK no, and.

4:56 Speaker 3: We haven't read anything about jfk at UFOs, but if

4:59 Speaker 3: you go on the End.

5:00 Speaker 1: Network now when we read a lot about it, and

5:02 Speaker 1: you know, even Jesse Michaels recently interviewing Harold and Alven

5:05 Speaker 1: Group basically said what we presupposed in Dark Skys was true.

5:10 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure I Brandy passed your question, which

5:13 Speaker 1: is what was the conception of it?

5:16 Speaker 2: Is that the so you know, like you answer it

5:20 Speaker 2: is based on real research.

5:23 Speaker 1: Well, okay, let me just put it this way. So

5:25 Speaker 1: one of the things we thought is we had a plan.

5:29 Speaker 3: It was a five year plane.

5:30 Speaker 1: Frankly, we were optimistic, you know, let's get this thing

5:33 Speaker 1: on what will the first five seasons be? And the

5:35 Speaker 1: reason we were very detailed we knew that if we

5:38 Speaker 1: were trying to sell it to a network that the

5:40 Speaker 1: idea were you know, kind of pitch was so shocking

5:44 Speaker 1: that they'd say.

5:46 Speaker 3: Okay, but where is this show go?

5:49 Speaker 1: So we came up with a timeline that took us

5:51 Speaker 1: from sixty five million DC to twenty fifty and laid

5:55 Speaker 1: out all this world because we thought we needed to

5:57 Speaker 1: be I was going to use the word bulletproof. That's

6:00 Speaker 1: probably wrong with jfk Assent we wanted to sort of

6:04 Speaker 1: just tell this story and what we ended up doing

6:07 Speaker 1: this was the most fascinating.

6:09 Speaker 3: Creative experience of my career. We made a timeline where

6:14 Speaker 3: we took three columns.

6:16 Speaker 1: Column one was historical events, and I had a collection.

6:21 Speaker 3: Of Time and Newsweek. It's just something I've always collected,

6:23 Speaker 3: and we went through Time.

6:24 Speaker 1: And Newsweek from the sixties and stuck all those dates

6:27 Speaker 1: into column one. Then we went to our UFO collections.

6:31 Speaker 1: I had about one hundred and fifty books at the time,

6:33 Speaker 1: and Brent had a lot himself, and we had got

6:37 Speaker 1: our assistance to work on it too, and everybody was

6:39 Speaker 1: going through these books and we'd find UFO events and

6:42 Speaker 1: we'd stick them into the time and whenever they matched

6:46 Speaker 1: on then that went into column three, where we said

6:49 Speaker 1: that to an empisode.

6:51 Speaker 3: Just one example of it for you would be.

6:54 Speaker 1: That the knight that Dorothy had kill Gallon, a famous

6:57 Speaker 1: journalist who was killed, was also the night of the

7:00 Speaker 1: New York power Line, and there were rumors of the

7:04 Speaker 1: UFOs being seen over power stations at the time of that,

7:10 Speaker 1: and Dorothy Kilgallen had been writing about not only JFK

7:14 Speaker 1: and Jack Ruby, but she'd also been writing about UFOs.

7:17 Speaker 1: So for us, we went like, hell, louyah, there's an

7:19 Speaker 1: episode turned out to be episode.

7:21 Speaker 3: Seventeen, But that's when we found all that stuff.

7:25 Speaker 1: So the answer to your question is we took it

7:28 Speaker 1: seriously to be honest and authentic about news events and

7:36 Speaker 1: UFO events, but we then applied dramatic license on compic.

7:40 Speaker 2: But I think what.

7:40 Speaker 1: People have liked about it, and I think maybe what

7:42 Speaker 1: even you liked about it is as you watched this thing,

7:45 Speaker 1: it is interesting to see these things lining up and

7:49 Speaker 1: to see UFO events seen in a context of historical events.

7:55 Speaker 1: And the reason I like that today here in twenty

7:57 Speaker 1: twenty five is that it.

7:59 Speaker 3: Seems very very clear to me.

8:01 Speaker 1: That we are on the cusp when we admit that

8:04 Speaker 1: we're not alone, and we've known that for a long time.

8:08 Speaker 1: There's a lot of history books that have been written

8:10 Speaker 1: that are going to need to have addendums to them

8:12 Speaker 1: or be entirely rewritten because things were going on at

8:18 Speaker 1: the time where we didn't know about it, and now

8:20 Speaker 1: we're going to have to admit it.

8:21 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's it kind of brings me to the

8:26 Speaker 4: next question, is you know, did you guys encounter any

8:30 Speaker 4: pushback from network or even government insiders, you know, while

8:35 Speaker 4: you were making your excise I know you have the

8:37 Speaker 4: story about the guy that came up to you at

8:39 Speaker 4: the party.

8:39 Speaker 3: Sure, that's pretty fascinating.

8:41 Speaker 2: By the way, did you find that nugain?

8:43 Speaker 3: We did you find it happened?

8:45 Speaker 1: Well, let's back up so everybody can get into this.

8:49 Speaker 1: But the answer to your question, though, is we encountered

8:53 Speaker 1: nothing but obstruction during this thing. Whether it was some

8:58 Speaker 1: of it was from the government, some of them was

9:00 Speaker 1: from other sources. We really it was not an easy

9:07 Speaker 1: show to get on the air. It was not an

9:09 Speaker 1: easy show to keep on the air what you're referring to, though,

9:14 Speaker 1: And we could do ten shows on the Dark Skuyt thing,

9:18 Speaker 1: which we're not going to. We're going to keep this

9:20 Speaker 1: into the short zone. But what happened is in a nutshell,

9:25 Speaker 1: on the night of our premiere party for Dark Skies,

9:29 Speaker 1: which was on believe September twenty first of nineteen ninety six,

9:33 Speaker 1: two hundred people coming to my backyard to party and

9:36 Speaker 1: watch the show in real time on televisions. Haven't he

9:39 Speaker 1: had seen it yet? And I knew I knew these

9:42 Speaker 1: people because they were either actors, directors, studio executives, networking.

9:49 Speaker 1: I knew everybody, but there was one guy that and

9:52 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. A producer brought to me and

9:55 Speaker 1: I didn't know who this guy was. He introduced himself

9:57 Speaker 1: and he said he'd been sent by his employers to

10:01 Speaker 1: offer us, to make us an offer of cooperation, and

10:06 Speaker 1: he said, we like what you've done.

10:08 Speaker 3: You got a lot right, and we want to help

10:10 Speaker 3: you do more.

10:12 Speaker 1: And he later told us he was from the Office

10:14 Speaker 1: of Naval Intelligence. And what you're referring to the napkin

10:20 Speaker 1: as I said, it wasn't it turns out it wasn't.

10:22 Speaker 3: Exactly a napkin.

10:23 Speaker 1: What happened is that the I threw the guy out.

10:26 Speaker 1: I said, basically, after I talked to this is fascinating,

10:31 Speaker 1: but I have a real job to do, right And frankly,

10:34 Speaker 1: I didn't invite you to this party.

10:36 Speaker 3: I said, you weren't invited. I don't know who you are.

10:39 Speaker 3: You're in my house.

10:40 Speaker 1: You need to leave. So I told him to leave,

10:42 Speaker 1: and he looked at us and he said, that's fair.

10:44 Speaker 1: I understand that.

10:46 Speaker 3: Does anybody have a piece.

10:47 Speaker 1: Of paper and a pencil or a pen and my

10:51 Speaker 1: co creator's wife had.

10:52 Speaker 3: A bank deposits that she pulled out of her purse

10:56 Speaker 3: and gave it to him, and the guy basically did this.

10:58 Speaker 3: He takes his pen, it.

11:00 Speaker 1: Takes this thing and it's writing for about thirty seconds.

11:05 Speaker 1: We're all watching this, and he hands it back to

11:09 Speaker 1: us and says, you should put this in a safety

11:12 Speaker 1: bus a box for ten or fifteen years. It'll make

11:14 Speaker 1: a lot more sensitive than maybe. And we look at

11:17 Speaker 1: this thing. I call it the picture. It had symbols

11:21 Speaker 1: in it, and really it is. I have it now

11:25 Speaker 1: and you'll see it later sudden, okay later.

11:28 Speaker 3: But we said what is it? And he said Secrets

11:32 Speaker 3: of the Universe, Sound, light and frequency.

11:35 Speaker 2: And which I reference it in an interview like earlier.

11:39 Speaker 4: And I mean, isn't it fascinating that fifteen years later

11:44 Speaker 4: here you are, yeah, all right, and sound and sound, light.

11:49 Speaker 2: And frequency are at the forefront.

11:50 Speaker 4: I mean, we're talking about psionics now, we're talking about

11:53 Speaker 4: all these things.

11:54 Speaker 2: That you know once once around. The real fringes of

11:56 Speaker 2: the community are now coming to.

12:00 Speaker 4: To fruition and to be more openly discussed. So do

12:05 Speaker 4: you think you might have been right?

12:06 Speaker 1: Well, Tesla thought so I didn't know this at the time,

12:10 Speaker 1: of course, because again no Internet. I started looking into

12:14 Speaker 1: things and I you know, googling and searching and all that.

12:17 Speaker 1: And apparently in nineteen oh four it if Tesla said,

12:20 Speaker 1: if you want to know the secrets of the universe,

12:23 Speaker 1: think of energy, vibration and frequency, which which basically is

12:27 Speaker 1: satellite in frequence.

12:28 Speaker 2: As I say, it boils down to the same thing.

12:30 Speaker 4: And right not to mention how quick the FBI raided

12:33 Speaker 4: Tesla's hotel went after he passed.

12:36 Speaker 1: You got to work.

12:36 Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many things, right, so many avenues

12:39 Speaker 4: when you go there.

12:40 Speaker 3: But listen.

12:42 Speaker 1: So there's that aspect that and I'm not going to

12:45 Speaker 1: go into all the details of that now because again

12:48 Speaker 1: that's the part of the particular.

12:49 Speaker 3: But it wasn't just that one off.

12:50 Speaker 1: You later brought someone to the office. They later made

12:54 Speaker 1: another offer, and ultimately my partner and I said.

12:58 Speaker 3: We did not go to take any deal from these.

13:01 Speaker 1: Guys because we really didn't feel we needed help. We

13:05 Speaker 1: felt like we were capable of writing a show.

13:08 Speaker 3: And I didn't know.

13:09 Speaker 1: Who these people were, and I suspected it was possibly

13:12 Speaker 1: a big hoax, So I thought, I don't have time

13:15 Speaker 1: to investigate whether it's a big hoax, and.

13:18 Speaker 3: So we passed.

13:19 Speaker 2: Now, I wonder, you know, I'm sure you've heard this,

13:23 Speaker 2: but have you the Robert Emmenegger story, right, so about

13:28 Speaker 2: how there was almost a willingness to cooperate and promise

13:32 Speaker 2: of material to be given, to be included to.

13:35 Speaker 4: Kind of warm the public up to I mean, do

13:39 Speaker 4: you ever wish you could go back and maybe take

13:41 Speaker 4: them up on the office.

13:42 Speaker 3: Well, it's very interesting that you say that.

13:44 Speaker 1: Of course, Brent and I over the years will often

13:46 Speaker 1: get together and we'll just kind of laugh and say,

13:51 Speaker 1: we'd have had a real series, wouldn't we if we

13:53 Speaker 1: took the deal?

13:55 Speaker 3: In fact, that we'd.

13:57 Speaker 1: Almost be the characters in that series, you know, two

14:00 Speaker 1: hapless Hollywood producers, you know, take make a deal with

14:03 Speaker 1: the government to help them get the truth out about UFOs.

14:06 Speaker 1: It's a good story, but you know, the real thing

14:09 Speaker 1: it raises, though, is if some well, first of all,

14:12 Speaker 1: we don't we don't know for.

14:14 Speaker 3: Sure if this person was who we said he was.

14:17 Speaker 1: But if he was and they came to us and

14:20 Speaker 1: offered us a deal and we said no, do you

14:22 Speaker 1: think they stopped and said, well, Zabel and Friedman don't

14:25 Speaker 1: want to do this.

14:25 Speaker 3: Better not talk to anybody else.

14:27 Speaker 1: Ever, Again, we doubt that, so probably other people have

14:30 Speaker 1: been taught Stielberg.

14:32 Speaker 3: Well that is the rumor, ye s.

14:34 Speaker 1: Fielberg also has a place in the Dark Sky's history

14:37 Speaker 1: and that our show was being produced at the same

14:40 Speaker 1: time as Men in Black and that didn't make him

14:43 Speaker 1: very happy.

14:44 Speaker 3: But that's another story. We're not going to get into

14:46 Speaker 3: that one right now. Any time that later.

14:48 Speaker 4: Well, you've said we are not alone, We've never been alone.

14:56 Speaker 2: Do you think we are finally? And I know this

15:00 Speaker 2: question gives us a lot and it's kind of redundant,

15:02 Speaker 2: but I mean, in reality, do you think that we

15:04 Speaker 2: are nearing some sort of official, official disclosure like you

15:09 Speaker 2: wrote about in your great book Ad After Disclosure.

15:14 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, I think we are.

15:19 Speaker 1: I wrote Ad After Disclosure with Richard Dolan, there's a

15:22 Speaker 1: great historian, and we had a wonderful year throwing ideas

15:25 Speaker 1: back and forth with each other about well, what do

15:27 Speaker 1: you think about this? How only go down? What do

15:29 Speaker 1: we think is going on? And the very first thing

15:31 Speaker 1: we came up with is sort of a tagline for

15:33 Speaker 1: disclosure that it was impossible, but inevitable. And that is

15:39 Speaker 1: the dichonomy of disclosure. Now, there are different kinds of disclosure. Frankly,

15:44 Speaker 1: if we were to ask everybody in your audience right

15:47 Speaker 1: now what they think UFO disclosure is, they probably have

15:50 Speaker 1: a slightly different opinion of everybody.

15:52 Speaker 3: So for the sake of our.

15:53 Speaker 1: Argument right now, let's just say disclosure is when somebody

15:58 Speaker 1: official says yep, not alone.

16:01 Speaker 3: Now.

16:01 Speaker 1: That can happen a couple of different ways.

16:04 Speaker 3: The one way it could happen is, yeah, the President.

16:07 Speaker 1: Comes out in the east room and stands at the

16:10 Speaker 1: podium and says, I got an announcement to.

16:12 Speaker 3: Make We're not alone.

16:13 Speaker 1: And for all you reporters there, here's a hard driver,

16:17 Speaker 1: three terabytes of video and photos and knock yourselves out

16:20 Speaker 1: and okay, we're done here. That's not likely to happen now,

16:26 Speaker 1: I think what Clearly, the people who have had the

16:30 Speaker 1: secret all these years and have refused to show their

16:32 Speaker 1: work are not about to do it without something else

16:37 Speaker 1: causing it down.

16:38 Speaker 3: So my take has evolved.

16:40 Speaker 1: I do think we are close to something, but I

16:43 Speaker 1: don't think it's going to be some kind of voluntary thing.

16:47 Speaker 1: I think somebody or something is going to happen that

16:51 Speaker 1: is going to cause the leadership of the world to

16:54 Speaker 1: have to sort of get on board and acknowledge it.

16:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's and I think it's that's a great way

17:00 Speaker 4: to put it. Is the pressure is going to have

17:03 Speaker 4: to mount to an insurmountable point.

17:06 Speaker 1: But the pressure is mounting. It is sort of, It's

17:09 Speaker 1: not it's not insurmountable at this point. But if you

17:13 Speaker 1: if you think of pressure as the public speaking out

17:18 Speaker 1: or challenging assumptions on a very basic that's pressure. Then

17:24 Speaker 1: pressure is mounted. Do we know how much pressure it

17:29 Speaker 1: is providing and how much pressure is necessary.

17:32 Speaker 3: To push people over the edge? No, we don't.

17:35 Speaker 1: You know, this is an equation we've never solved before,

17:38 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of.

17:39 Speaker 3: Variables in it.

17:40 Speaker 1: But you know, quite honestly, I look at you know,

17:44 Speaker 1: I'm not the youngest guy in the room anymore. I've

17:46 Speaker 1: lived a long life and a good one. But as

17:49 Speaker 1: I look back over all those years, most of the

17:53 Speaker 1: years of my life have been living in a world

17:55 Speaker 1: where if even if you thought UFOs were real, you

17:59 Speaker 1: that was pretty much your opinion that you kept in yourself,

18:02 Speaker 1: you didn't tell people a lot about it.

18:04 Speaker 3: And even if you did, nobody believed.

18:06 Speaker 1: You, where they made fun of you, and so I

18:09 Speaker 1: never had a feeling in my life that we would

18:11 Speaker 1: get to the place where this would actually happen until

18:15 Speaker 1: more recently.

18:16 Speaker 3: Since since around since around the turn.

18:21 Speaker 1: Of the century, I think things have been picking up

18:23 Speaker 1: in speed, you know, from nine.

18:25 Speaker 3: To eleven on onward.

18:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, the instability of the world, well, Richard Dolan, I'll

18:31 Speaker 1: always used to say that instability is what will probably

18:35 Speaker 1: push disclosure for it. And you could argue we have

18:37 Speaker 1: some instability in the world right now.

18:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, you look around and there's

18:41 Speaker 2: just a lot it seems the world's on fire.

18:44 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wish it wasn't.

18:48 Speaker 1: But I'm not going I'm not naive to say that

18:52 Speaker 1: the world is going to feel like a safer, a

18:54 Speaker 1: better place where we have some ignition. Admission of disclosure,

18:59 Speaker 1: by the way, different words since since the days when

19:03 Speaker 1: we did ad after disclosure. Disclosure is a word, like

19:07 Speaker 1: I said, nobody can quite figure out, right, and everybody's

19:10 Speaker 1: got a different opinion. So I've been thinking about it

19:13 Speaker 1: for years and saying, what is a better for how

19:18 Speaker 1: we can look at this, And I look at it

19:19 Speaker 1: as confirmation. Confirmation is what would work for everybody. I

19:25 Speaker 1: don't expect my government to tell me everything, and in fact,

19:28 Speaker 1: some of the things they probably shouldn't tell me. In

19:30 Speaker 1: a dangerous world, maybe there are reasons for some secrets,

19:33 Speaker 1: but the actual confirmation that we're not alone shouldn't be

19:37 Speaker 1: a secret. The details around it, some of them may

19:41 Speaker 1: indeed need to be secret, but the idea, the simple

19:45 Speaker 1: acknowledgement that, by the way, we have fairly definitive proof

19:49 Speaker 1: that we're not alone, ought.

19:50 Speaker 3: To be set.

19:52 Speaker 4: And look at the nuclear issue, right, yeah, so nuclear technology.

19:58 Speaker 4: I mean, you can't have a nuclear reactor, but we

20:00 Speaker 4: know they exist. It's that same you know, Okay, we

20:03 Speaker 4: know that we can't have one.

20:05 Speaker 2: We can't give everyone.

20:06 Speaker 4: The keys to the nuclear the arsenal, but you know

20:10 Speaker 4: we all know it exists, right right, And it's it's

20:13 Speaker 4: classifying a whole realm of reality. And I don't think

20:17 Speaker 4: that's a fair and it's it's it's it's you know,

20:22 Speaker 4: it's relative or or indicative of a long systemic issue

20:30 Speaker 4: of still piping the.

20:34 Speaker 2: Or the whitewashing of history and the control of the narrative.

20:37 Speaker 1: Right you are, however, the one thing that's interesting is

20:40 Speaker 1: we've come to the point where, for the for the

20:44 Speaker 1: majority of my years on this planet, the US government

20:48 Speaker 1: in particular, that all governments mostly have not acknowledged it

20:53 Speaker 1: and have actually participated in a sense of denial and

20:57 Speaker 1: ridicule for people that want to believe in it.

20:59 Speaker 3: That's true anymore. The US government has actually.

21:03 Speaker 1: Admitted that UAP or UFOs are real. And people ask

21:08 Speaker 1: me this all the time, and I'm sure it happens

21:10 Speaker 1: to you and many of the people in your audience.

21:12 Speaker 1: People say, do you believe in UFOs? And I say, well,

21:17 Speaker 1: of course I believe in UFOs. They're unidentified, they fly

21:21 Speaker 1: their own Okay.

21:22 Speaker 3: So since we have UFOs acknowledged by the government, that

21:27 Speaker 3: is progress, That is confirmation that they exist.

21:31 Speaker 1: So what a lot of people mean when they ask

21:33 Speaker 1: that question is are they aliens? Well, nobody's even saying

21:36 Speaker 1: that anymore. We're just saying, look, something is not quite right,

21:41 Speaker 1: that the nature of how we perceive reality is incomplete.

21:47 Speaker 3: And and what frustrates.

21:51 Speaker 1: Me is a citizen as a human being, is that

21:54 Speaker 1: I know there are people out there who billions of

21:57 Speaker 1: dollars to study this, and they have better theories than

22:01 Speaker 1: I do. They may even have facts that I would

22:04 Speaker 1: blow my mind, but they don't share them. So what's

22:08 Speaker 1: happened happening since twenty seventeen with the New York Times

22:11 Speaker 1: article was first written until now, that's going to be

22:15 Speaker 1: eight years this December, Okay, and a lot has happened.

22:21 Speaker 3: I mean a lot has happened in eight years.

22:22 Speaker 1: A that admission from the government that these things are

22:26 Speaker 1: real and we just.

22:28 Speaker 3: Don't know what they are.

22:29 Speaker 1: But also we've had congressional hearings, we've had reports, We've

22:34 Speaker 1: had pilots and witnesses come out, we've had whistleblowers. This

22:39 Speaker 1: is not the same world in twenty twenty five than

22:42 Speaker 1: it was in twenty seventeen. And it's definitively not the

22:45 Speaker 1: world when I was doing Dark Skys in ninety six.

22:48 Speaker 1: I think that's what made Dark Skuys, by the way,

22:50 Speaker 1: the most subversive show on television, because not only did

22:53 Speaker 1: it say JFK was killed in a conspiracy, but it

22:56 Speaker 1: said that UFOs were connected to them.

23:00 Speaker 3: Was subversive in that regard.

23:02 Speaker 1: It's a little less subversive because because both of those

23:05 Speaker 1: have radically shifted. Most people now were pretty well in

23:08 Speaker 1: the opinion that UFK probably was killed in the conspiracy. Uh.

23:12 Speaker 1: And again it's the same problem with the UFOs. We

23:15 Speaker 1: know he was killed in the conspiracy, we don't know

23:17 Speaker 1: exactly who conspired with whom to do what.

23:20 Speaker 3: But okay, and with.

23:22 Speaker 1: UFOs, we certainly know that they're real, but we don't

23:25 Speaker 1: all agree on who they are or what.

23:27 Speaker 4: They want what they were, right, right, So with whistle

23:32 Speaker 4: blowers in mind, what do you think I mean, you guys,

23:36 Speaker 4: you and ross On need to know. I believe it

23:39 Speaker 4: was two episodes ago spoke about how you know, the

23:43 Speaker 4: Matthew Browns coming out the NASA whistleblower came out, which

23:48 Speaker 4: was actually what we did.

23:49 Speaker 3: Yes, so it was a little applause here.

23:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really fun to hear you guys say.

23:56 Speaker 3: I was like, yes, very I mean, udos, thank you.

24:01 Speaker 4: And so do you think that I mean with the allegation,

24:06 Speaker 4: not the allegations, but you know, the with the mounting

24:10 Speaker 4: amount or I keep saying mounting with the abundance of

24:16 Speaker 4: these whistleblowers? Do you think that this I mean, we

24:22 Speaker 4: keep hearing this twenty twenty seven date.

24:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like dates, no, but it does seem

24:27 Speaker 2: like we are coming to some sort.

24:29 Speaker 1: Of boiling point. I'm very skeptical of dates though, because

24:34 Speaker 1: again I've been in journalism for a long time, and

24:38 Speaker 1: you know, listen, I've seen doomsday cult after Doom's Day

24:41 Speaker 1: cult say the worlds can end up a certain date.

24:43 Speaker 1: We just lived through twenty twelve, that's supposed to be

24:46 Speaker 1: the end of the world as we know it. Yeah,

24:49 Speaker 1: I just think you have to bring an extreme amount

24:53 Speaker 1: of skepticism to a date, because history tell us is

24:55 Speaker 1: most of the people that predict dates are wrong, right,

24:58 Speaker 1: because but everything they say the world is going to end,

25:00 Speaker 1: and then it doesn't end, and they go, oh, well, oh.

25:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't carry the zero here. It's actually next

25:07 Speaker 4: twenty years from now.

25:08 Speaker 1: But having said that, it doesn't mean that there might

25:12 Speaker 1: not be a date. It's just that I don't find

25:14 Speaker 1: the sources for argument there's a date certain for something.

25:20 Speaker 1: But you know, listen, we're rational people. Well, would you

25:25 Speaker 1: think the powers that be would do if they knew,

25:29 Speaker 1: for example, in twenty twenty seven, there was going to

25:32 Speaker 1: be an extra solar event that would affect us or something.

25:40 Speaker 3: You know, if you don't know what to do about that,

25:42 Speaker 3: you can't affect it. Maybe you would keep that a.

25:45 Speaker 4: Secret, right, rather than cause a mass panic of epic proportions.

25:51 Speaker 2: Right.

25:51 Speaker 3: But although you know, I have to say, though we

25:54 Speaker 3: should something else that hasn't panned out is the idea

25:58 Speaker 3: of mass panic.

26:00 Speaker 1: Now, I do admit that I would assume that on

26:03 Speaker 1: the day that somebody says just some you know, the

26:07 Speaker 1: day a president looks in the camera and says, by

26:10 Speaker 1: the way, I'm confirming that we're not alone, a lot

26:13 Speaker 1: of people are going to buy a toilet bay ye okay,

26:17 Speaker 1: we know this.

26:18 Speaker 3: Is that mass panic or is that just you know,

26:21 Speaker 3: we'll get through it.

26:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, we're going to have a run on toilet

26:25 Speaker 1: paper at Costco. We know that that will be happening,

26:28 Speaker 1: but that happens for almost anything. Will there be disruption?

26:33 Speaker 1: Of course, Dolan and I went on after disclosure, We're

26:36 Speaker 1: just thinking to ourselves, Okay, let's say in today's interconnected

26:42 Speaker 1: world that there's a confirmation and ten percent of the

26:47 Speaker 1: people don't handle it, well, okay, and ten percent of

26:51 Speaker 1: those people are interstate truckers who don't go to work

26:54 Speaker 1: all right, Well, is that going to cost supplotline and

26:58 Speaker 1: the supply chain issues? Yeah, and when those supply chain

27:03 Speaker 1: issues are reported in the news. Is that going to

27:06 Speaker 1: increase the panic into a cycle?

27:09 Speaker 3: Probably?

27:10 Speaker 1: So we always looked at it as AD plus you know,

27:14 Speaker 1: AD plus one day will look like this, AD plus

27:18 Speaker 1: one month will look like that, AD plus one year

27:21 Speaker 1: plus ten years and at a certain point, and we

27:25 Speaker 1: could argue about it, maybe it's a year, maybe it's

27:28 Speaker 1: ten years, maybe it's twenty five years, but at some

27:31 Speaker 1: point some kind of stasis is achieved and you'll move forward.

27:39 Speaker 1: I mean, the bill, the bill still come due, people

27:41 Speaker 1: still have to go to work. And you know, it's

27:46 Speaker 1: the one I've always loved is for people that have

27:49 Speaker 1: seen Doctor Strangelove. There's a character Buck Turbinson, and he's

27:55 Speaker 1: the general who's talking about nuclear war and its survivability,

27:59 Speaker 1: and he says to the President.

28:01 Speaker 3: I ain't saying we're not going to get our hair missed, right,

28:04 Speaker 3: And I've.

28:05 Speaker 1: Always thought thought that is kind of a charmingly appropriate

28:09 Speaker 1: way to look at it. Yeah, our hair is going

28:12 Speaker 1: to get must when we finally get around to doing this,

28:15 Speaker 1: because it's taken so long to get here, there's going

28:20 Speaker 1: to be a lot of buried secrets and possibly murders

28:25 Speaker 1: that were committed certainly violations of some civil rights and

28:30 Speaker 1: things like that. All of this is going to have

28:32 Speaker 1: to be handled. One of the things that I think

28:34 Speaker 1: we can pretty well see possibly in the future would

28:39 Speaker 1: be some kind of truth and reconciliation commissions.

28:44 Speaker 4: And I was going to say, we're going to have

28:46 Speaker 4: to meet them halfway in some sort of amnesty program.

28:49 Speaker 4: But I have two hard questions. Yeah, and we can

28:54 Speaker 4: edit one of them out.

28:56 Speaker 3: If you want.

28:59 Speaker 2: I want to start with the do we you're close

29:02 Speaker 2: to Ross?

29:04 Speaker 4: Ross has broken some of the biggest UFO related stories period?

29:11 Speaker 3: Yes? Yes.

29:13 Speaker 4: Does it ever concern you that these whistleblowers are coming

29:18 Speaker 4: through a d O D pre publication or are they

29:22 Speaker 4: unwittingly controlled disclosure?

29:25 Speaker 3: Is it?

29:25 Speaker 2: Have you ever had that conversation with him? And you know,

29:28 Speaker 2: whether these guys are you know, they don't have to be,

29:31 Speaker 2: you know, willingly doing it, but.

29:34 Speaker 1: Is the d O D?

29:35 Speaker 2: You know, I mean they're going and asking for approval,

29:38 Speaker 2: right right? So does that not make that I mean.

29:41 Speaker 1: That's not really a whill Listen, I totally get it.

29:44 Speaker 1: It's a legitimate concern. Does it bother me? Does it

29:49 Speaker 1: bother me? It is what it is. I you know,

29:53 Speaker 1: Obviously we're talking about people like louel Azando and David

29:56 Speaker 1: Rush and even j Stratton, who's going to have hit

30:02 Speaker 1: you know, they.

30:03 Speaker 3: Take you know, both Lou and Jay have had books

30:06 Speaker 3: that are being gone over.

30:08 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you could look at it

30:10 Speaker 1: and say, Okay, so I've read Blue als Onto's books

30:15 Speaker 1: and many of the people that are watching this have credit.

30:17 Speaker 1: You've read it, and it's pretty radical, you know, and

30:21 Speaker 1: some of the things that it says.

30:22 Speaker 3: And that was improved by the government to say.

30:25 Speaker 1: So are we in a slow controlled disclosure, Whether somebody

30:33 Speaker 1: is planning it that way or not, we are in that.

30:37 Speaker 1: I mean, so, so does it bother me? Reality doesn't

30:40 Speaker 1: bother me? You know, reality accepting reality is what life

30:46 Speaker 1: is about. You know, if you get a cancer diagnosis,

30:50 Speaker 1: it doesn't do you any good to say I don't

30:52 Speaker 1: have cancer.

30:53 Speaker 3: You know.

30:54 Speaker 1: The better thing to do would be, okay, I have cancer.

30:57 Speaker 1: What am I going to do about? What's next?

30:59 Speaker 3: Right? So I'm not bothered by it, In fact, I

31:02 Speaker 3: kind of I just think that in specific reference.

31:07 Speaker 1: To whistleblowers and where they come from, there are going

31:10 Speaker 1: to be because it's.

31:12 Speaker 3: Been a governmental program.

31:14 Speaker 1: Many of the whistle blowers are going to be governmental,

31:16 Speaker 1: but at the same time, let's not be that's not

31:19 Speaker 1: mince words. There are people in the aerospace industry, private

31:24 Speaker 1: industry who have been part of this as well.

31:27 Speaker 3: That's not the government.

31:28 Speaker 1: Some of those people are probably going to have to

31:30 Speaker 1: be drag kicking and screaming out before Congress eventually, but

31:35 Speaker 1: some of them may come forward on their own.

31:37 Speaker 4: No, and.

31:40 Speaker 2: Very well said, very well said, and that I mean

31:43 Speaker 2: that really answers that. Here the next one a little dicey. Yeah, right,

31:48 Speaker 2: so I like this, Okay, you come from the world

31:52 Speaker 2: of entertainment.

31:54 Speaker 4: We understand now we look at guys like Jeffrey Epstein,

31:58 Speaker 4: and we look at guys like Shawncolm's p ditty and

32:02 Speaker 4: what's been going on? Do you think that there's a

32:05 Speaker 4: chance that the same people who are controlling the strings

32:10 Speaker 4: and honey potting and you know, doing whatever is going

32:13 Speaker 4: on there are the same people that are ultimately hiding

32:18 Speaker 4: this nullifying technology that is off world and in essence,

32:24 Speaker 4: maybe a breakaway civilization, call what you want, the cabal,

32:27 Speaker 4: the deep state, whatever, But it seems like someone's pulling

32:31 Speaker 4: the strings. And I don't think that's just in terms

32:34 Speaker 4: of the UFO stuff, but also the darker, darker stuff.

32:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, and is what's the question?

32:46 Speaker 4: Do you think it is possible that the same people

32:48 Speaker 4: that are pulling the strings on this side pulling the

32:54 Speaker 4: strings on.

32:55 Speaker 1: It's with any society at any time, the elites no

33:00 Speaker 1: more than the people who are the grunts.

33:02 Speaker 3: And that's that's obviously going on.

33:05 Speaker 1: Here, and it wouldn't you know, I don't think it's

33:09 Speaker 1: even much.

33:10 Speaker 3: Of an issue.

33:11 Speaker 1: Of course, there are different elements to control, and you know,

33:17 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not wildly and I'm not an anarchist

33:20 Speaker 1: saying burn down the you know, the mission here. We

33:24 Speaker 1: just have to accept that there are some things that

33:28 Speaker 1: are behind a curtain. And sometimes I suppose the curtain

33:35 Speaker 1: has been good on a short term. I would put

33:37 Speaker 1: that probably if you think about Roswell as a case,

33:43 Speaker 1: at the very beginning, we had no idea what that

33:46 Speaker 1: was all about. It was scary as hell. We'd just

33:50 Speaker 1: come out of World War two and we weren't. We

33:53 Speaker 1: thought we need some time studying this. So was that curtain?

33:58 Speaker 1: Okay at the beginning. You know, I'm not really going

34:01 Speaker 1: to excuse it, but but I'm.

34:02 Speaker 3: Going to say I understand it. Understand it right? Is

34:05 Speaker 3: it okay? Eighty years later?

34:08 Speaker 1: No, So somewhere on that SAT lies where we need

34:13 Speaker 1: to be and where we need to be right now,

34:16 Speaker 1: because it's like, it's such like the pressure is building

34:20 Speaker 1: and has been, and we have to relieve the pressure,

34:24 Speaker 1: right And that's why I'm trying to push people to

34:29 Speaker 1: consider this more as confirmation than disclosure, because we have

34:34 Speaker 1: to liken our load of how we're going to do it.

34:38 Speaker 1: If we say it's got to be all accomplished at

34:40 Speaker 1: once and everything, you know, there are people that say

34:43 Speaker 1: you've got to put it all out at once.

34:47 Speaker 3: You know. Maybe, but again I'm not on the inside.

34:50 Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe there are you're talking about dark

34:52 Speaker 3: dark docs.

34:54 Speaker 1: Well, maybe there's some really dark stuff about the UFO

34:57 Speaker 1: issue that people.

35:00 Speaker 3: Legitimately have said. That's going to be very disconcerting when

35:04 Speaker 3: people here about production.

35:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, these you know, to the extent that there

35:08 Speaker 1: is knowledge about that and whatever really represents maybe there

35:12 Speaker 1: are stages to it.

35:14 Speaker 3: I guess what I've always been.

35:15 Speaker 1: Saying is, you know, if there's if you're part of

35:20 Speaker 1: this government, great folks and you're watching this right now,

35:24 Speaker 1: I want you to think about just confirming it. Just

35:30 Speaker 1: start with confirmation, and look, whether we put people in

35:35 Speaker 1: prison over this thing or whether we give amnesty as

35:38 Speaker 1: a political issue, and that's why we have the institutions

35:43 Speaker 1: we have. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. We

35:46 Speaker 1: still got to do something. So, yeah, there's darkness, There's

35:51 Speaker 1: always been darkness in the There'll be darkness after we

35:55 Speaker 1: confirm and disclose. But it doesn't mean you don't start

35:58 Speaker 1: at some point. You just you got to rip the

36:03 Speaker 1: band aid off. And I think, although when I say that,

36:05 Speaker 1: I mean it's slightly different. I mean rip the band

36:07 Speaker 1: aid off on the confirmation. I don't mean rip the

36:10 Speaker 1: band aid off and tell everybody everything all at once.

36:14 Speaker 1: And even people who use this phrase catastrophic disclosure, I

36:18 Speaker 1: don't even like that because you know it's such a

36:21 Speaker 1: majority of catastrophic.

36:23 Speaker 3: What does that even mean?

36:24 Speaker 4: It implies that we would lose our minds, well, always

36:27 Speaker 4: our minds.

36:28 Speaker 1: I think again, it's disruptive, there's no question. But here's what.

36:35 Speaker 1: I was elected chairman of the TV again days before

36:39 Speaker 1: nine to eleven, and the Emmys were days ahead of them,

36:43 Speaker 1: just days, and so the very first thing we had

36:46 Speaker 1: to do is like, what do people want us to

36:49 Speaker 1: It was a crisis, and it was for me a

36:51 Speaker 1: lesson in crisis management.

36:54 Speaker 5: I think all our days began either turning on the

36:57 Speaker 5: TV or listening to the radio or someone we know

37:00 Speaker 5: us and saying, have you seen what's happening, and then

37:02 Speaker 5: trying to find out what the town thought was appropriate

37:05 Speaker 5: to do about the situation. And that's really been the

37:08 Speaker 5: defining moment for us.

37:11 Speaker 1: And the one thing I learned almost immediately from them

37:15 Speaker 1: is that people just wanted authenticity and they wanted honesty,

37:24 Speaker 1: and so I started using just total transparency with the media.

37:29 Speaker 1: So whatever they'd ask me, even if the answer was

37:31 Speaker 1: one I didn't like to give, I would give it

37:34 Speaker 1: right and I would And if somebody said something asked

37:38 Speaker 1: something that I didn't know the answer to, I would say,

37:41 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that, but I'll.

37:42 Speaker 3: Get back to you.

37:44 Speaker 1: And remember when nine to eleven happened, we said that

37:48 Speaker 1: everything change, but it really didn't.

37:51 Speaker 3: It did for a while, but we sort of hold to.

37:54 Speaker 1: Life as a way of hanging back to you.

37:57 Speaker 3: So I know it's going to be difficult.

38:01 Speaker 1: I'm not actually looking forward to the disruption that's coming

38:06 Speaker 1: that part I could do with them, but I understand

38:10 Speaker 1: and accept it's going to happen anyway. And I understand,

38:13 Speaker 1: you know, I have three children, have a grandchildren, right,

38:18 Speaker 1: and I understand that my granddad is going to live

38:23 Speaker 1: and grow up in a very difficult world than I did.

38:26 Speaker 3: We each had our problems.

38:28 Speaker 1: I grew up where the Cold War could blow up,

38:32 Speaker 1: and I was hiding under a school disc thinking that

38:34 Speaker 1: would protect me from a nuclear bomb, which it wouldn't, right,

38:38 Speaker 1: And that very lie drove a dagger into all of us.

38:43 Speaker 3: Right, They're going to grow up in a world.

38:45 Speaker 1: Where there may be some darkness involved in what the

38:48 Speaker 1: actual secret is.

38:50 Speaker 3: But they're also going to grow up in a world where.

38:54 Speaker 1: This young girl, my grandchild, is going to grow up

38:57 Speaker 1: in a world where she looks up and says, wow,

39:03 Speaker 1: there there's stuff all over out there, right, and it's

39:07 Speaker 1: not going She's not going to be made to feel

39:09 Speaker 1: little or small for for thinking that.

39:12 Speaker 3: Right, And that's a pause.

39:15 Speaker 2: That is and that that that notion.

39:19 Speaker 4: That means we've you know, that that shows how far

39:22 Speaker 4: we've gone.

39:23 Speaker 2: That you know, I mean, look at all the normal

39:26 Speaker 2: people that here, just they want to be a part

39:28 Speaker 2: of the community. So I guess, you know, we'll round

39:30 Speaker 2: this off because.

39:33 Speaker 4: I know you're a busy, busy man, and we're going

39:34 Speaker 4: to get We're going to bring you to the studio

39:36 Speaker 4: of Boston.

39:37 Speaker 2: So I can't wait for that.

39:39 Speaker 4: But what case out of you know, what, what's what's

39:44 Speaker 4: your if I had if I had a gone to

39:46 Speaker 4: your head, which I went into, of course, and you

39:49 Speaker 4: had to pick one case two uh put in front

39:52 Speaker 4: of court right to deem disclosure, was was if it

39:56 Speaker 4: was all real?

39:57 Speaker 2: What case is it?

39:58 Speaker 1: Well, that would be the question first, which is are

40:02 Speaker 1: you picking a case that will disclose what's actually happening

40:06 Speaker 1: or a case that just would convince somebody over there

40:10 Speaker 1: who's never given any unis okay? I think you know,

40:15 Speaker 1: we've already sort of got that case and it's been

40:17 Speaker 1: done to death, and that would be the NIMENS case

40:20 Speaker 1: is a very strong case because it has different sources

40:24 Speaker 1: of data collection, right, and so as a consequence, that's

40:28 Speaker 1: been the go to case for a couple of reasons,

40:30 Speaker 1: because of the different data counction and because of the recency,

40:33 Speaker 1: you know, the recent.

40:34 Speaker 3: Nature of it.

40:35 Speaker 1: So of course that's a good one. And I think

40:39 Speaker 1: anybody that really studies that one at all comes away

40:43 Speaker 1: and says there's something very mysterious going now that doesn't

40:48 Speaker 1: necessarily the NIMENS case by itself doesn't tell.

40:52 Speaker 3: You that we're not alone.

40:54 Speaker 1: And I don't know personally right now of the case

40:58 Speaker 1: that I think would convince a jury that there's non

41:02 Speaker 1: human intelligence. I think you could convince any jury with

41:08 Speaker 1: a multiplicity of cases, that something that does.

41:12 Speaker 3: Not appear to be us is out there.

41:14 Speaker 1: But then remember the idea of the court case is

41:19 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt, so well I could I think

41:22 Speaker 1: we could convince any jury that there's something that doesn't

41:27 Speaker 1: appear to be ours out there. I don't think you

41:30 Speaker 1: could go beyond reasonable doubt right now with any case

41:34 Speaker 1: that makes them go, oh, it's aliens, because even the

41:37 Speaker 1: people who are at this conference that we're at right

41:40 Speaker 1: now all disagree radically. There's people out there that think

41:43 Speaker 1: it's aliens. There's people that think it's time travelers from

41:47 Speaker 1: the future. There's people that think it's interdimensional. There's people

41:50 Speaker 1: who think it's all about consciousness. There's people who think

41:53 Speaker 1: we're in the simulation.

41:54 Speaker 3: They're not.

41:55 Speaker 2: These didn't breakawayanization.

41:56 Speaker 1: There's all kinds of that stuff. Now I have my

41:59 Speaker 1: own It's just like other people have their own opinions.

42:03 Speaker 1: So the answer to your question is no. The only

42:07 Speaker 1: way that let me put it this way, if I

42:11 Speaker 1: was a lawyer trying to make a case that non

42:13 Speaker 1: human intelligence is interacting with us, the only way that

42:17 Speaker 1: case could be one would be the power of subpoena

42:20 Speaker 1: to go get evidence that I don't have access to currently.

42:25 Speaker 1: And if you've told me I can have access to

42:28 Speaker 1: anything that the government has, if there was a discovery

42:33 Speaker 1: where I could literally get my hands on anything the

42:35 Speaker 1: government's got, yeah, then I can win that case.

42:39 Speaker 2: All right, ros I just called you.

42:42 Speaker 3: You know what, call me Bruce, tell me Bryce. I

42:44 Speaker 3: don't know, just you know what spell my name.

42:48 Speaker 2: I had the next question and I promised that was.

42:55 Speaker 3: Okay.

42:57 Speaker 1: No, I really love stuff.

43:00 Speaker 4: I really love what you've been able to do with

43:02 Speaker 4: Ross with me to know you're doing your kind of

43:07 Speaker 4: developing something new. So I want you to be able

43:09 Speaker 4: to talk about that because you just released a new

43:11 Speaker 4: episode Chrissy, and you're doing the this is a book

43:15 Speaker 4: club book club, so can you just tell people about that?

43:18 Speaker 3: Well, let me differentiate.

43:20 Speaker 1: Look, there's there's a in nineteen ninety six, I did

43:25 Speaker 1: art Bell on Coast to coast and everybody seemed to

43:28 Speaker 1: see it or hear it, because.

43:30 Speaker 3: That's how you talked about UFOs back.

43:33 Speaker 1: Now we're in twenty twenty five and there's you know,

43:35 Speaker 1: I got a podcast, You got a podcast. Everybody's got

43:38 Speaker 1: a podcast. Who doesn't have the podcast? So I think

43:42 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do is figure out ways to

43:44 Speaker 1: stand out from from the crowd on the subject to

43:47 Speaker 1: Need to Know.

43:48 Speaker 3: That's hosted by Ross Coltheart and myself, and Ross is, as.

43:52 Speaker 1: You said, one of the ultimate best investigative reporting sources

43:57 Speaker 1: on this topic. He's, you know, he's not perfect. He's

43:59 Speaker 1: going to make mistakes, just like everybody does. But he's

44:03 Speaker 1: the best I've seen, and I put him up there

44:05 Speaker 1: with George Napp and two of them. I'm very in

44:07 Speaker 1: a of And so what we try to do on

44:10 Speaker 1: Need to Know is not interview the same people over

44:12 Speaker 1: and over again, because we think that there's got to

44:17 Speaker 1: be an audience out there that says I'm interested in

44:21 Speaker 1: what's going on. I'm a busy person, don't waste my time.

44:26 Speaker 1: So what Ross and I try to do with Need

44:28 Speaker 1: to Know is to say we respect you, we respect

44:31 Speaker 1: your time. You give us forty five minutes to an hour,

44:34 Speaker 1: we'll give you the world. We'll tell you what's going on,

44:37 Speaker 1: and we'll cut the bullshit out and we'll just try

44:41 Speaker 1: to get to the point and give you to me.

44:44 Speaker 1: We'll make it lively and we'll make it listenable. But

44:47 Speaker 1: if you want interviews, well means go now. I've just

44:51 Speaker 1: started something that you pointed out with Christy Newton, which

44:54 Speaker 1: is fun. We're just doing it because it's called Project

44:57 Speaker 1: book Club. And the idea of Project book Club is

45:00 Speaker 1: just that we all I bet you have it yourself.

45:02 Speaker 1: We all have UFO book players like you. And if

45:06 Speaker 1: you go ask everybody who's got fifty or one hundred

45:10 Speaker 1: UFO books how many they've read cover to cover, it's

45:13 Speaker 1: not all of them, okay, And I admit that myself.

45:17 Speaker 1: I've got two hundred UFO books. I've read fifty cover

45:20 Speaker 1: to cover. So what Christy and I were talking.

45:23 Speaker 3: About is like, why don't we read a book, tell

45:26 Speaker 3: people what we're reading, and then discuss it.

45:29 Speaker 1: And then when the people who want to have read

45:32 Speaker 1: the same book and hear us discuss it, we all

45:35 Speaker 1: we all rease our Yeah, we increase our knowledge. And

45:39 Speaker 1: the reason I wanted to do this, quite frankly, is

45:42 Speaker 1: that there's a tendency to live in the moment because

45:46 Speaker 1: it's news, right, So you always got to go, well,

45:48 Speaker 1: what do we know of what's coming from Congress today?

45:52 Speaker 3: Or what did Luna say yesterday? You know that kind

45:55 Speaker 3: of thing.

45:56 Speaker 1: And the book thing gives you a chance to talk

45:59 Speaker 1: about about history and history is important, you know, So

46:03 Speaker 1: I want to be able to tell everybody we're going

46:05 Speaker 1: to read Whitley's Readers Communion this month, So go get

46:08 Speaker 1: your copy and read it and then read about.

46:10 Speaker 3: And tell them what it's about.

46:12 Speaker 2: And it's timeless because I could read a book a

46:15 Speaker 2: year after you got the episode, and I can go

46:17 Speaker 2: back in that yat most.

46:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the shelf life of most podcasts is about

46:23 Speaker 1: a week a week, Okay, what we think with a

46:26 Speaker 1: Project book Club, the shelf life of each episode maybe

46:28 Speaker 1: ten years longer than that.

46:31 Speaker 2: You know.

46:31 Speaker 3: So that's our take.

46:32 Speaker 1: I don't know if it'll work, but it was fun

46:34 Speaker 1: to do it because with the I'll give you the

46:37 Speaker 1: answer need to know requires a lot of prep.

46:40 Speaker 3: Yes, you know, Ross is so.

46:41 Speaker 1: Good that for me to keep up with them, I

46:43 Speaker 1: got to really buckle down prep with the Project Book Club.

46:48 Speaker 1: All Christy and I have to do is read the

46:51 Speaker 1: book and show up, and that's easier.

46:54 Speaker 2: And then conversations are organic, right, and.

46:57 Speaker 3: Yet it's just as valuable.

46:59 Speaker 1: The first one we can was The Believer by Ralph

47:02 Speaker 1: blumenth All, about the life of John mac. A lot

47:04 Speaker 1: of people have heard of John, but they don't know

47:07 Speaker 1: anything really about him, right, They don't know that Harford

47:09 Speaker 1: put him on trial basically want.

47:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, almost ruined his career, and yet he won, and

47:17 Speaker 4: yet he won, you know, and then he didn't win.

47:19 Speaker 1: Right Well yeah, so well the ultimately didn't win because

47:23 Speaker 1: we stepped in front of this drunken driver.

47:26 Speaker 3: But so you're right.

47:28 Speaker 1: Anyway, I think there's room for a lot of different

47:31 Speaker 1: things out there, and we've got to hit this on

47:32 Speaker 1: a multi factorial basis. We gotta got to hit him high,

47:36 Speaker 1: we got to hit him low. You know, in everything,

47:39 Speaker 1: there's room for coast to coast, ancient aliens, there's room

47:43 Speaker 1: for the program, there's room for age of disclosure, there's

47:47 Speaker 1: room for all of these different methods that there's room

47:50 Speaker 1: for what you're doing right now, there's room for what

47:52 Speaker 1: I'm doing because there's a lot of curiosity out there

47:56 Speaker 1: in the world, because the more this has been discussed,

47:59 Speaker 1: the more people say, oh, what's going on again? And

48:05 Speaker 1: I think we are all part of answering that question. So,

48:08 Speaker 1: by the way, I commend you for what you're doing.

48:10 Speaker 1: You've done some really excellent work. And not only are

48:15 Speaker 1: you doing excellent work, but some of the work you're

48:16 Speaker 1: doing becomes the subject of things that I'm talking about, right,

48:21 Speaker 1: And I think that's a great credit to you, and

48:23 Speaker 1: I commend.

48:24 Speaker 3: You for it.

48:24 Speaker 4: Yeah, I really appreciate that, especially coming from someone like you.

48:28 Speaker 4: And listen, you know you bring with Ross with yourself,

48:34 Speaker 4: you know, the more people that are talking about this,

48:36 Speaker 4: but also you know, you have a whole life that

48:41 Speaker 4: you know, Ross has a whole life that he lived

48:43 Speaker 4: before the UFO topic. You do as well, and all

48:46 Speaker 4: your resumes. You know, people can look at that and go,

48:50 Speaker 4: I can believe in that guy, right, I can believe

48:52 Speaker 4: when he's saying.

48:53 Speaker 2: He seems like a straight shooter.

48:54 Speaker 3: He see.

48:55 Speaker 2: You know, you don't get to these places, you don't

48:57 Speaker 2: run these things or when these awards because you're just

49:01 Speaker 2: running the running you.

49:02 Speaker 1: Know the other thing you have to do and you

49:03 Speaker 1: do it yourself. We're all fallible, we're all human. We're

49:07 Speaker 1: going to make mistakes. So do you spend all your

49:10 Speaker 1: time not making mistakes so that you're overly cautious or

49:14 Speaker 1: do you plow ahead and if you make one, do

49:16 Speaker 1: you just own it? And so our take is we

49:20 Speaker 1: might make mistakes and if we do, we'll own it

49:23 Speaker 1: and were correct it. And so what we kind of

49:25 Speaker 1: look at our episodes as is to continue.

49:28 Speaker 3: There may be times where we're going to have to

49:32 Speaker 3: issue with correction. New York Times issues corrections. Why can't

49:35 Speaker 3: we right?

49:36 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of times we record

49:38 Speaker 1: these things and they exist in a vacuum and once

49:41 Speaker 1: you've said it, it's often the ether and you you know,

49:44 Speaker 1: but we have to be accountable. Accountability is key going forward.

49:48 Speaker 1: Credibility is key. Authenticity is key.

49:51 Speaker 2: Well, my friend, you are one of the most authentic

49:54 Speaker 2: and genuine people that I think I've met at this conference.

49:57 Speaker 2: So I just want to thank you, thank you so

49:59 Speaker 2: much for doing the break.

50:01 Speaker 4: For anyone watching, there will be a QR code here

50:04 Speaker 4: that you can scan to bring you right to need

50:06 Speaker 4: to know his page and the link will be in

50:08 Speaker 4: the description below. For anyone watching on a podcast listening

50:12 Speaker 4: on a podcast platform, leave a rating.

50:14 Speaker 1: It's free.

50:15 Speaker 2: It takes two seconds and helps with that past the algorithm.

50:18 Speaker 4: Head out watch need to know and everything that Bryce

50:21 Speaker 4: is doing with with Ross with Chrissy with what is

50:24 Speaker 4: the the offshoots name again?

50:27 Speaker 1: Oh project project book Club is?

50:30 Speaker 3: Oh is that's the what are we asking about?

50:33 Speaker 2: The Stellar production?

50:35 Speaker 1: Stellar Productions is my production company, okay, which I created

50:39 Speaker 1: decades ago, and it produces these things quick and by

50:44 Speaker 1: the way, I think it was the luckiest and most

50:46 Speaker 1: pressy title.

50:47 Speaker 3: You know.

50:48 Speaker 1: At the time, I was just trying to create a

50:49 Speaker 1: corporation in California that I could do business with. And

50:53 Speaker 1: I like Stellar because I was interested in space. But

50:55 Speaker 1: now it's my favorite.

50:57 Speaker 3: I love it.

50:58 Speaker 2: The pat's get just to leave it off. The future

51:04 Speaker 2: affect the now just as much as the vast does,

51:07 Speaker 2: you know, It's.

51:07 Speaker 4: All I don't think we know time not linear, so

51:10 Speaker 4: I mean we're not the synchronicity in our world? Right

51:13 Speaker 4: So yeah, no, so definitely I think anyone who watches

51:18 Speaker 4: this interview right now will know who you are.

51:21 Speaker 2: But if anyone who doesn't guys check out need to

51:24 Speaker 2: know their producer is one of my great friends, uh

51:28 Speaker 2: Astrol from UFO X. So I want to say thank

51:31 Speaker 2: you to both of you guys for taking.

51:32 Speaker 3: Time to day.

51:33 Speaker 2: Thank you all right, my friend you soon I'm to recover.

51:40 Speaker 2: To give me here now