Hunting UFOs & The Search for Life Beyond Earth- MASSACHUSETTS MUFON UFO INVESTIGATOR

0:04 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Tell Disclosure General Worlds. Degrees in electrical

0:21 Speaker 1: engineering from UMass Lowell and Texas Tech, and he works

0:26 Speaker 1: highly works within highly classified defense projects, and serves as

0:30 Speaker 1: a field investigator and media outreach coordinator for Muffon, Massachusetts.

0:35 Speaker 1: He's not just looking at the sky, he's breaking down

0:39 Speaker 1: the physics behind what's flying in it. For mysterious plasmoids

0:44 Speaker 1: and orbs seen by pilots two hydrodynamic propulsion, and time

0:49 Speaker 1: space distortions to secretive Soviet era reverse engineering efforts. We're

0:55 Speaker 1: pulling on every thread and we're doing it. As he

0:58 Speaker 1: said in plain English, if you value conversations like this,

1:02 Speaker 1: where science meet speculation and facts blur into something. For

1:07 Speaker 1: Stranger considered becoming an asset to the show at TDP.

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1:36 Speaker 1: can help us with that pesky algorithm. Let's get started, Jim,

1:42 Speaker 1: how you doing super super This is something obviously that

1:52 Speaker 1: you know is new to me. Having these in studio discussions,

1:56 Speaker 1: so you know, kind of boring the lines and bringing

1:59 Speaker 1: it from that zoom style over to the in person

2:03 Speaker 1: has been quite the ride. We're still working out some

2:05 Speaker 1: of the kinks obviously, but no, it really is good

2:08 Speaker 1: to have you here. I really want to dive into

2:11 Speaker 1: today's episode with kind of if maybe if you can

2:17 Speaker 1: give the audience a little bit of background about yourself,

2:20 Speaker 1: how you got into the topic and what kind of

2:22 Speaker 1: keeps you here cool?

2:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks folks. By the way, if you hear any

2:27 Speaker 2: squeaking or that's my co host on Massachusetts mooth on

2:32 Speaker 2: Ons show mass Hysteria, that's come and time. But she's

2:36 Speaker 2: she's being good now. So yeah. Wow. So let's see

2:42 Speaker 2: where do I begin. Well, so, yeah, I won't go

2:46 Speaker 2: into a whole whole biography, but I've always a techno geek,

2:52 Speaker 2: and growing up I would work on all sorts of projects.

2:54 Speaker 2: And it's kind of funny because neighborhood kids would you know,

2:59 Speaker 2: from elementary school after class, anybody from from say you know, athletic,

3:06 Speaker 2: you know, but this is an elementary school all the

3:08 Speaker 2: way up to you know, say bookworms. They'd always be

3:11 Speaker 2: interested in some kid would be walking down the street,

3:13 Speaker 2: you know, hey James, because that's what they called me

3:16 Speaker 2: in elementary school. I hate being called that way. But

3:19 Speaker 2: can I I come on your bedroom? And well, could

3:21 Speaker 2: your latest? And it would always be what's my latest invention?

3:23 Speaker 2: And I have things from like weapons like a slink

3:26 Speaker 2: shot gun to you know, crystal radio and stuff.

3:31 Speaker 1: And you're a little little bob bazaar over there.

3:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well I wish I was that intelligent, but

3:38 Speaker 2: you know, I get my my specialties. But I veered

3:40 Speaker 2: down the track of electrical that's just what I could

3:44 Speaker 2: relate to robots and gadgets and stuff. And then into college,

3:53 Speaker 2: when I was in my junior and senior year, I

3:57 Speaker 2: performed undergraduate search and development in a semiconductor lab. And

4:05 Speaker 2: then I went off to grad school and over at

4:09 Speaker 2: Texas Tech, I was in their plasma and Pulse power

4:13 Speaker 2: R and D lab, which is really interesting because that

4:17 Speaker 2: relates a lot to the U A p U. Yeah,

4:21 Speaker 2: and and that was that was cool culture shock being

4:24 Speaker 2: uh down there in northwest Texas. But yeah, very cool.

4:30 Speaker 1: Yeah compared to like you, Matt, just different worlds.

4:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, like if you don't you know, I learned to

4:37 Speaker 2: appreciate football and and bear and chose and if you're

4:42 Speaker 2: like football, bear nachos, and you're going to be bored

4:45 Speaker 2: on the weekend. Other than for me, it was that

4:47 Speaker 2: with buds or else. Uh go back to research, yeah,

4:52 Speaker 2: you know, so that that was that was my typical weekend.

4:54 Speaker 1: So yeah, so you're big into the electrical engineering, yeah, Matt,

5:00 Speaker 1: or just the electromagnetic field, that kind of stuff and

5:04 Speaker 1: how it works, tinkering with it and inventing things.

5:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of a kind of a gadget guy.

5:11 Speaker 2: So I had I had my own my own small

5:15 Speaker 2: business for about it's about it's about twenty three years total,

5:21 Speaker 2: and eight of those years I was funded small business

5:27 Speaker 2: R and D grants by by departments like National Science Foundation,

5:33 Speaker 2: Department of Energy, and NASA. Oh yeah, really really cool.

5:38 Speaker 2: And that was that was related to supercomputing and cloud

5:43 Speaker 2: computing stuff. So I'm pretty I'm pretty diverse with all,

5:47 Speaker 2: you know, my exposure to stuff.

5:49 Speaker 1: Right, right, So what exposed you to UAP specifically.

5:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeahps, it's kind of interesting. So so nowadays, uh,

6:00 Speaker 2: you know, the paradigm shift is you don't have to

6:03 Speaker 2: be a weirdo or a uh say right, or a

6:11 Speaker 2: social outcast whatever to be into UFOs and u A

6:14 Speaker 2: p s. You've got all sorts of people from all

6:17 Speaker 2: walks of life that are that are recording these things

6:22 Speaker 2: and and reporting and examining and so uh I was.

6:31 Speaker 2: I was always a little bit interested, but highly skeptical,

6:36 Speaker 2: and then probably about I don't know, maybe about eight

6:41 Speaker 2: years ago more or less, I actually told the man

6:46 Speaker 2: in person when I when I saw him at Boston.

6:48 Speaker 2: But Luis Alisondo had his uh I believe it started

6:52 Speaker 2: on a History channel, but he had his docu saries,

6:57 Speaker 2: you know, with all all the other gang and Crush

7:01 Speaker 2: and and Chris Mellan and so forth and and Ryan Graves.

7:07 Speaker 2: And I'm watching this stuff on TV with my parents

7:10 Speaker 2: and I'm like, and I'm seeing the videos and I'm

7:13 Speaker 2: seeing that, like, oh my god, this this stuff is real.

7:17 Speaker 2: And so that's what got me interested. My you know,

7:24 Speaker 2: my aspect is kind of like from a what I

7:26 Speaker 2: what I really dig into is the science and technology

7:31 Speaker 2: aspect and which is why I'm really sinking my teeth

7:35 Speaker 2: into into Jean's book Hygiene Engineering Infinity. Incredible work. And

7:45 Speaker 2: so that's that's what kind of keeps.

7:47 Speaker 1: Me sofied unidentified. The show on History, which was Alizondo's show,

7:53 Speaker 1: like you had stated, So that's kind of what that

7:57 Speaker 1: show either was a tipping point for you.

8:00 Speaker 2: Of Oh, that was absolutely a tipping point for me.

8:03 Speaker 1: Have you met Alexander?

8:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was he had.

8:07 Speaker 1: I met him. I met him in Congress right before

8:09 Speaker 1: he testified.

8:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's a he's a friendly guy. So he was.

8:17 Speaker 2: He was doing different different symposiums around the country. I

8:24 Speaker 2: caught him his second time around. He was in Boston

8:28 Speaker 2: back in March, and so actually he was such an

8:32 Speaker 2: interesting person and topics that that I went with my

8:40 Speaker 2: friend in mouf On, Massachusetts State Director Eric Hartwig, and

8:46 Speaker 2: a couple of close friends of mine. So there was

8:50 Speaker 2: they were total like one and two three, there were

8:53 Speaker 2: five of us including myself. We went to Lose symposium

8:58 Speaker 2: where he spoke, and so myself and one other close

9:01 Speaker 2: friend got there probably about an hour and a half early,

9:06 Speaker 2: and we were just sitting around, you know, near the bar,

9:10 Speaker 2: and so forth and and I was I was busy

9:13 Speaker 2: studying up on on you know what what Lou was

9:17 Speaker 2: probably going to talk about all that. While I'm doing that,

9:20 Speaker 2: She's just looking at She's like, we wasn't on him

9:22 Speaker 2: right there, And I'm like caught up in a in

9:24 Speaker 2: a book and I'm like, I'm like, what who wears?

9:28 Speaker 2: And like I don't see anybody, but I heard his

9:30 Speaker 2: voice Mike, Yeah, it's his voice. And I look and

9:32 Speaker 2: he's there with uh with this uh, this, this big

9:37 Speaker 2: pumped up dude who I guess is a personal friend

9:41 Speaker 2: from probably from when he was in Special Forces and

9:44 Speaker 2: also a bodyguard.

9:45 Speaker 1: And so it was, hey, did he have long hair?

9:49 Speaker 1: That's probably Sean.

9:51 Speaker 2: It was a different gentleman, which I'm not sure you

9:54 Speaker 2: know who is I'm familiar with the names.

9:56 Speaker 1: Okay, but he was in that show unidentified so.

10:00 Speaker 2: Okay, oh no, no, was okay, it was Yeah, I'm

10:03 Speaker 2: not sure if that other gentleman wants is his name?

10:06 Speaker 2: But yeah, but he's but he's uh, he's you know,

10:09 Speaker 2: I know for a fact, based on you know, some

10:12 Speaker 2: of the research I did, he's he is close friends

10:14 Speaker 2: with with little but also the guy was in the

10:18 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he was in a Special Forces with him.

10:20 Speaker 2: And it was a big guy that could basically break

10:22 Speaker 2: anybody's head just by.

10:24 Speaker 1: Yeah.

10:25 Speaker 2: And but they were very friendly, and so I just

10:27 Speaker 2: walked up and I don't want an autograph and Bob,

10:30 Speaker 2: I just wanted to shake his hand and tell him,

10:32 Speaker 2: you know that yes really, you know, really impressed and

10:37 Speaker 2: and thankful for his work and so forth. And he was,

10:41 Speaker 2: he was so friendly. The guy let me hug him,

10:44 Speaker 2: which hopefully I didn't wear them out too much. But

10:47 Speaker 2: he's he's like when you take a picture and I'm like, oh,

10:50 Speaker 2: you get that all the time. I don't know bother

10:51 Speaker 2: He's like, no, no, come on. He's like, there's gonna

10:53 Speaker 2: be a big line after us. And he was, he was,

10:55 Speaker 2: he was very kind. He gave me, uh yeah, I

10:58 Speaker 2: know it was a different gentleman.

11:00 Speaker 1: Yeah that's before Congress.

11:03 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, that is a different gentleman.

11:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definite. Yeah right so right.

11:08 Speaker 2: Before Yeah, yeah, that's that's really cool.

11:12 Speaker 1: Yeah.

11:13 Speaker 2: And he's he's really down to earth and easy to speak.

11:16 Speaker 1: With, very very very very I got to watch him testify,

11:19 Speaker 1: which was amazing.

11:20 Speaker 2: You know, that's that's totally awesome.

11:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, him and him and Rear Admiral Tim Goddett. So

11:28 Speaker 1: let me let me ask you this so you get involved,

11:31 Speaker 1: you get interested in the topic. Yeah, have you ever

11:35 Speaker 1: had a sighting or have you ever seen anything you

11:38 Speaker 1: can't explain?

11:40 Speaker 2: I have, although my that was growing up, although that

11:44 Speaker 2: was my brother and when we grew up in Maldon

11:49 Speaker 2: and to this day, I'm trying to convince my brother

11:52 Speaker 2: to to file a report. But my brother is very

11:56 Speaker 2: skeptical and inquisitive. So when when he does foul report

12:00 Speaker 2: or you know, I'll beg and plead with the State

12:02 Speaker 2: Director who's also a bud. But when it comes to business,

12:05 Speaker 2: it's business. I'll say, you know, is it okay if

12:07 Speaker 2: I if I look at this since I was actually

12:11 Speaker 2: you know, I was a witness. But you know, if

12:13 Speaker 2: you're if you're filing a report with MOUF on Mutual

12:18 Speaker 2: ufone network for those folks that don't know what that means,

12:21 Speaker 2: then you usually can't investigate the same case that you

12:26 Speaker 2: filed on. There. You know, there's there's probably exceptions. Eric,

12:31 Speaker 2: the State Director was explaining to me, but as a

12:33 Speaker 2: general rule, you're not supposed to because what it does

12:36 Speaker 2: is a bias is.

12:37 Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, it was a built in bias because

12:40 Speaker 1: you're you're you're going to be starting from a point

12:42 Speaker 1: either too skeptical trying to prove what you saw was prosaic,

12:47 Speaker 1: or the other side, which is even worse, is saying

12:51 Speaker 1: it's unknown and only seeing the because you can. It's

12:56 Speaker 1: very easy to carry pick data in your favor or

13:00 Speaker 1: for your narrative and not see anything that would contradict

13:04 Speaker 1: it and throw it out so I could. It's it's understanding.

13:08 Speaker 2: Most people are unintentionally doing that too. And and the

13:12 Speaker 2: thing like like you like you just said, taia is

13:16 Speaker 2: you know, based on different cases and and also interviews

13:22 Speaker 2: with folks on on the Moovefun Mass Hysteria show, I've

13:29 Speaker 2: seen witnesses or heard about witnesses who would do something

13:34 Speaker 2: similar that I've done with other things in life, not

13:36 Speaker 2: necessarily sightings, but just say people situations where you get

13:40 Speaker 2: a set of data and you go, well, clearly APUs

13:44 Speaker 2: B plus C brings me to conclusion D. But in

13:48 Speaker 2: reality people on the outside say, well, geez, is the

13:51 Speaker 2: data sets much bigger and it's like apos B pus

13:54 Speaker 2: C all the way to why will bring you to

13:56 Speaker 2: conclusion Z something totally different and so so that you know,

14:01 Speaker 2: pretty much aligned with you said about uh, you know,

14:03 Speaker 2: being prosaic if if you were to you know, conduct

14:07 Speaker 2: your own investigation of your own observances.

14:10 Speaker 1: Yeah. So okay, So so tell me what you and

14:14 Speaker 1: your brother saw.

14:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so he was my brother had always been

14:19 Speaker 2: into astronomy, and for me, it was kind of like,

14:22 Speaker 2: oh that's cool, that's interesting. Uh not really my thing.

14:26 Speaker 2: So this, you know, what brought me in really was

14:28 Speaker 2: was Low's show and the funny thing about lou by

14:31 Speaker 2: the way, and then I'll get off that topic, but

14:33 Speaker 2: is when I told him that he didn't bat an eyelash,

14:35 Speaker 2: he didn't. Of course, he wasn't amazing. He just he

14:39 Speaker 2: just he just he just kind of you know, he

14:41 Speaker 2: listened to me, and he gave me fifteen minutes of

14:43 Speaker 2: his time, which was quite generous. But you know, but

14:46 Speaker 2: the point is, I'm sure he was used to to

14:48 Speaker 2: hearing it. He was, yeah, yeah sure, But so my brother,

14:54 Speaker 2: you know, he used to study these things growing up,

14:57 Speaker 2: and and so he observed the thing. And I'm not sure,

15:05 Speaker 2: you know, he would have to file the report because

15:07 Speaker 2: he's got the full memory. I'm not sure if it

15:10 Speaker 2: was seasonal or if it was all year round, but

15:13 Speaker 2: I do know when we've grown up in Malton a

15:15 Speaker 2: couple of years a row in a in a rubble,

15:18 Speaker 2: same spot in the sky, you know, relatively the same

15:23 Speaker 2: time at night, he saw something that would that was

15:29 Speaker 2: very bright, repeated repeated, So I mean right away, you know,

15:33 Speaker 2: you you know, you would think it's like an astronomical body.

15:37 Speaker 1: Anomally or or not even anomally, because it's repeated, then

15:42 Speaker 1: that would make it maybe.

15:43 Speaker 2: A galaxy or maybe a quasar.

15:45 Speaker 1: Or something something, something that's in our orbit every and

15:49 Speaker 1: you see it once a year around the same time

15:50 Speaker 1: at the same that would make sense. But what you're saying,

15:54 Speaker 1: so you're saying it's not that well, or at least

15:58 Speaker 1: he was convinced.

15:59 Speaker 2: He's convinced it's not. It was very funny and boy

16:03 Speaker 2: scouts they were giving a hard time because he was

16:05 Speaker 2: talking about it. And it was like it was a

16:09 Speaker 2: spot in the sky that was very bright, changing, you know,

16:14 Speaker 2: went from like say, sort of like a diamond shape

16:18 Speaker 2: to a circle shape or so it was changing shapes

16:21 Speaker 2: literally by the second. And it was like if you

16:28 Speaker 2: look at it through a pinpoint would be very bright pinpoint,

16:31 Speaker 2: and then through the telescope that looked like maybe about

16:33 Speaker 2: the size of of of a nickel, not quite the

16:36 Speaker 2: size of the quarter, and the same same spot. So

16:41 Speaker 2: you know, the you know, the first thing would be okay,

16:45 Speaker 2: look up, look up different charts and so forth and

16:48 Speaker 2: dates and see what see what astronomical bodies are up there.

16:53 Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, my brother was convinced it was

16:56 Speaker 2: something different, just because of the continued changing colors and shapes.

17:02 Speaker 2: But which is you know that is a that is

17:05 Speaker 2: that's rare?

17:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't that's satellites don't do that. Planets don't

17:11 Speaker 1: do that. Right, nothing that I know does that except

17:15 Speaker 1: something unknown.

17:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it could be I mean it could be. Uh.

17:21 Speaker 2: I mean so it was never filed as a case.

17:24 Speaker 2: And I'm still trying to convince my brother to file it.

17:27 Speaker 1: Has he gone back and like, because if it's coming

17:31 Speaker 1: back on a yearly basis At that same time, as

17:33 Speaker 1: he continued to look.

17:35 Speaker 2: At me, I would I would recommend him to do that.

17:38 Speaker 2: I mean, he he lives, he lives towards some central

17:42 Speaker 2: mass now not really not really am all of them,

17:45 Speaker 2: but I mean I would encourage him to do that

17:47 Speaker 2: because he still has his telescope and all that stuff.

17:49 Speaker 1: Well, give me the coordinates, I'll go on the day

17:52 Speaker 1: in time, I'll look for it. But what year was

17:55 Speaker 1: this because so.

17:58 Speaker 2: This was in the let's say early eighties.

18:04 Speaker 1: Not too many satellites up there yet, No, no, yes,

18:08 Speaker 1: that's very weird. So and he saw this over multiple years.

18:12 Speaker 2: At least a couple of years.

18:14 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. So you saw it as well, yes, so.

18:19 Speaker 2: You know he would line up the telescope. He even

18:21 Speaker 2: showed my mom.

18:22 Speaker 1: And so multiple witnesses.

18:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, I have a couple of ideas

18:26 Speaker 2: on what it is, but you don't. You don't know

18:29 Speaker 2: until you've you've proven it out right, and then it

18:33 Speaker 2: either becomes well, I mean depending on how you how

18:37 Speaker 2: you prove it out. You identify it like airplane, which

18:42 Speaker 2: you know obviously not you know, or you know, you

18:47 Speaker 2: say drone or whatever, you could say star see spotlight

18:52 Speaker 2: or whatever, which you know it wasn't right.

18:55 Speaker 1: You run the gambit of the prosaic explanations and you

18:58 Speaker 1: see what you know. So I understand that, and I

19:01 Speaker 1: get that, but it sounds like it's pretty so so.

19:05 Speaker 2: His peers were wrong. I'll tell you that his peers

19:07 Speaker 2: were in boys go to so hysterical. They're like they

19:10 Speaker 2: were yelling and shouting. That. That is one thing I'll

19:13 Speaker 2: say in general, being in a science and engineering community.

19:19 Speaker 1: Like a STEM community, yeah.

19:21 Speaker 2: Like in my uh yeah, the STEM community exactly in academia.

19:27 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll be at conferences and you get scientists shouting

19:31 Speaker 2: at each other about someone's results, which I thought was bizarre.

19:34 Speaker 2: I got shouted at once because I just asked a question.

19:37 Speaker 2: And then and engineering, you're in a conference room or

19:40 Speaker 2: something and and people start shouting at each other about

19:44 Speaker 2: what something is or something's not correct, and that that's

19:47 Speaker 2: for me, that's a big turn off because it's like,

19:50 Speaker 2: you know, it's like if you believe something or you're

19:53 Speaker 2: refuting it, all you have to do is state the

19:55 Speaker 2: facts and keep it a constructive conversation. So that that

20:00 Speaker 2: is that that is one thing I never understood. And

20:02 Speaker 2: you know, with with move On, it's it's pretty pretty uh,

20:06 Speaker 2: pretty constructive and pretty you know, pretty discussion oriented. I

20:11 Speaker 2: you know, you never know. I'm sure that there have

20:14 Speaker 2: been arguments and shouting matches, but as far as I know,

20:17 Speaker 2: it's it's mostly you.

20:18 Speaker 1: Know, civil and yeah, yeah, yeah. If there's a discourse,

20:22 Speaker 1: it's it's healthy discourse rather than what you're talking about.

20:27 Speaker 1: Is I mean, when you're presenting something, you're you know,

20:31 Speaker 1: you're going out, you're putting yourself out there. And often

20:35 Speaker 1: that's how it is, is you know you're you're the

20:38 Speaker 1: one who's going to be putting yourself out there. But

20:40 Speaker 1: that means you're also putting yourself out there to be criticized. Right,

20:46 Speaker 1: Like people always want to tell me how I should

20:48 Speaker 1: run the show, what questions I should ask. It's like

20:51 Speaker 1: I'm the one, You're doing it right, right, And and

20:55 Speaker 1: I said, and I know what you mean. It's very

20:56 Speaker 1: off putting from a science standpoint because you're not gonna

21:00 Speaker 1: want to be that person getting yelled at.

21:02 Speaker 2: So you're not gonna.

21:03 Speaker 1: Want to speak up, even if you have a brilliant

21:05 Speaker 1: idea or some not maybe not even a brilliant idea,

21:08 Speaker 1: but something that could advance the conversation is now hindered

21:11 Speaker 1: or being hindered because of the environment itself. So like

21:16 Speaker 1: to say that science isn't without its flaws is to

21:19 Speaker 1: say that that's just plain it's wrong. Like the science science,

21:25 Speaker 1: mainstream science. There's a reason that they've allowed themselves to

21:30 Speaker 1: be to be ignorant when it comes to UFOs, right,

21:35 Speaker 1: They've allowed themselves to be brainwashed by you know, the

21:40 Speaker 1: hokey dokey little green men, you know, when in reality,

21:45 Speaker 1: we now know that the government has been looking into

21:49 Speaker 1: this for probably ever and this is a legitimate phenomena.

21:57 Speaker 1: Like the government has spent spent quite a bit of money,

22:00 Speaker 1: and you do not spend that much money if on

22:03 Speaker 1: something that doesn't exist. Right, So here doing a full circle.

22:09 Speaker 1: I know I'm talking a lot here, but I'm getting

22:11 Speaker 1: somewhere with it. In the mainstream science, mainstream science community,

22:15 Speaker 1: was it scary for you to come out and say

22:18 Speaker 1: that you believed in UFOs?

22:20 Speaker 2: Not scary, but.

22:26 Speaker 1: Because there had to be a moment where you came.

22:28 Speaker 2: Out feeling a little how do I put it? Trying,

22:34 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of a good word. Well, they say, uh,

22:39 Speaker 2: you know, going against the grain is a good thing,

22:42 Speaker 2: Oh very much. Yeah, I guess I guess you could

22:47 Speaker 2: say maybe I don't know how put into words, but

22:52 Speaker 2: getting used to not all but some people just giving

22:55 Speaker 2: you strange looks or like or like you know, kind

22:58 Speaker 2: of smirking or smiling at you whatever.

23:00 Speaker 1: You you're that guy, know, yeah, because I'm that guy.

23:03 Speaker 2: Sometimes not always. But you know it's what's interesting is

23:07 Speaker 2: then that like in the science and engineering community, it's

23:11 Speaker 2: fifty to fifty because then the other the other half,

23:14 Speaker 2: you know.

23:14 Speaker 1: It's crazy. Yeah, sorry to cut you off. The other half.

23:19 Speaker 1: Half of those people want to talk about it, that's right,

23:23 Speaker 1: but they have some sort of predisposition against it, like

23:26 Speaker 1: religion or there if they're scientists more or less their

23:30 Speaker 1: atheism which becomes a religion in itself or pressure. Yeah,

23:35 Speaker 1: they won't but they so they won't touch it. And

23:37 Speaker 1: then the other half they're just naive and you know,

23:40 Speaker 1: but whatever. So it's funny that you say that, Oh.

23:43 Speaker 2: Oh, totally ty and and so you know, I do

23:47 Speaker 2: have colleagues and friends on both sides of the fence.

23:53 Speaker 2: And the one, you know, one that was encouraging a

23:58 Speaker 2: close friend of mine, he h, you know, he agreed

24:04 Speaker 2: with me that you know, some of these things that

24:06 Speaker 2: were for example, that they have been in the news,

24:09 Speaker 2: that have been also in in in some of the

24:15 Speaker 2: videos that are related to the congressional hearings, that it's

24:22 Speaker 2: totally far beyond the ability of any adversarial technology. And

24:29 Speaker 2: these are you know, that opinion not only comes from

24:31 Speaker 2: a friend of mine who's, you know, very highly educated

24:36 Speaker 2: engineer with probably like forty five plus years of experience,

24:40 Speaker 2: but you've got other highly educated scientists and engineers out

24:44 Speaker 2: there too, made a name, but you and I already

24:46 Speaker 2: know a bunch of them that that believe simply, you know, right,

24:52 Speaker 2: we're all not saying that we're going to be taken

24:53 Speaker 2: over on the planet Earth by a bunch of little

24:57 Speaker 2: green men zipped around fine sauces. We're just simply saying

25:00 Speaker 2: there's something to it, and it lo and behold right

25:04 Speaker 2: all the main and omily resolution office established for this

25:08 Speaker 2: very thing. You know, there's pros and cons. Sometimes sometimes

25:12 Speaker 2: we feel, you know, as a country, that they're forthcoming.

25:15 Speaker 2: Other times we feel like, for one reason or another

25:18 Speaker 2: they can't be, or they're told not to be. So

25:21 Speaker 2: that's you know, it depends on depends on you know

25:23 Speaker 2: who whose opinion. But if there wasn't something to it,

25:28 Speaker 2: then there would not be such an office established. And

25:34 Speaker 2: and then finally I would just say it's you know,

25:39 Speaker 2: it's it's something worthy of of discussion and and understanding,

25:45 Speaker 2: if nothing else, I mean for me to be honest

25:47 Speaker 2: with you, why I'm in it. I'm just I'm just

25:50 Speaker 2: enthralled with it. And it's basically it's a pastime.

25:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you don't get paid to do that.

25:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, which, which is another thing which you know a

25:57 Speaker 2: lot of people will say, oh, yeah, you're you're u

25:59 Speaker 2: fall just so people already understand that you're not making

26:02 Speaker 2: any money off this or whatever, and you know, yeah,

26:07 Speaker 2: I just think it's cool. And I can tell you

26:08 Speaker 2: that I lost kind of how many people I've already

26:11 Speaker 2: met by being involved.

26:13 Speaker 1: The sheer number of things I've heard from highly, highly,

26:18 Speaker 1: highly credible people. I like, I can't be that naive,

26:25 Speaker 1: and I've seen things that I can't explain. I've seen

26:31 Speaker 1: things with my own eyes, tree top level, broad daylight,

26:36 Speaker 1: just a disc come right over my head. And I

26:39 Speaker 1: lived next to Hanscom Air Force Base, which you're probably

26:41 Speaker 1: familiar with, so I knew what flew, and I grew

26:44 Speaker 1: up in the time of nine to eleven. I know

26:46 Speaker 1: what flies and what doesn't fly. This thing shouldn't have

26:50 Speaker 1: been in the air right by all known physics and

26:54 Speaker 1: known aircraft. This thing should not have been flying, but

26:57 Speaker 1: it was. And it was oscillating and moving forward at

27:00 Speaker 1: the same time, right, and you know, no rivets, no scenes,

27:06 Speaker 1: so it's spin, oscillating and moving forward, moving forward at

27:10 Speaker 1: the same time. So it's spinning and moving forward, right.

27:14 Speaker 1: And this thing came over tree top level and I

27:17 Speaker 1: know what I saw. No one can tell me that

27:19 Speaker 1: I didn't see it, right, But my mother, she didn't

27:22 Speaker 1: tell me, like you saw a bird, or you saw

27:24 Speaker 1: a plane, or you saw God, you know, or you

27:29 Speaker 1: didn't see anything at all, and you just you're just

27:31 Speaker 1: a kid. You don't know what you're seeing. She's like,

27:33 Speaker 1: you saw UFO. I'm like, what's the ufo? We had

27:36 Speaker 1: the whole conversation. She never told me what to believe.

27:40 Speaker 1: She just let me believe or know that there was

27:43 Speaker 1: things out there that we didn't know. So I grew

27:46 Speaker 1: up just understanding that there was The world was not

27:50 Speaker 1: black and white, right, There was a lot of gray.

27:53 Speaker 1: And it sounds like you've come to that conclusion too.

27:55 Speaker 2: Oh oh, totally, this is totally too much. There's there's

28:02 Speaker 2: totally call it shades of gray or thin gray lines

28:07 Speaker 2: as opposed to as opposed to black and white. And

28:11 Speaker 2: that's why I like, you know, in in different interviews

28:14 Speaker 2: or discussions, you know, you might hear me say that

28:19 Speaker 2: that I'm on the fence about something, which which means

28:22 Speaker 2: that I'm always trying to you know, decide or you know,

28:27 Speaker 2: be you know, from an unbiased standpoint, just drawn all

28:31 Speaker 2: the all the data that I have, and you know,

28:34 Speaker 2: and discussions and you know, research and and try to

28:39 Speaker 2: come closer to to what I believe, and there's yeah,

28:44 Speaker 2: there's a lot of unknowns or well, you know a

28:47 Speaker 2: lot of times I use the expression in high likelihood

28:50 Speaker 2: or in all likelihood, but you know, you know, ship changes,

28:54 Speaker 2: and you could go down one path thinking that you know,

28:58 Speaker 2: a certain phenomena is one thing, and then find out

29:01 Speaker 2: that it's that it's.

29:03 Speaker 1: Not radically different. And I think one of the things

29:06 Speaker 1: I think we need to do in this community is

29:09 Speaker 1: be humbly wrong and open to being wrong. And with

29:14 Speaker 1: that being said, you know, without naming individuals, are there

29:18 Speaker 1: any recent or compelling cases that you've seen involving orbs,

29:22 Speaker 1: plasmoids or polyhedral shaped craft enveloped in this plasma? Because

29:30 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know of several accounts like the nuclear

29:35 Speaker 1: accounts where these orbs, these orange it's consistently orange orbs

29:44 Speaker 1: that are being seen over nuclear bases and they're shutting

29:48 Speaker 1: down our nuclear weapons and or turning them on in

29:51 Speaker 1: some cases that in Russia what is now modern day Ukraine.

29:55 Speaker 1: So any recent cases like that, because I think there's correlation.

30:02 Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's a really excellent, extremely thorough study

30:13 Speaker 2: written by gentleman by name of.

30:17 Speaker 1: Hastings Robert UFOs and nukes.

30:21 Speaker 2: Very thorough study. And oh yeah, and I'll give it

30:26 Speaker 2: another shout out to my buddy that that taught me

30:28 Speaker 2: all about that. Someone who's another UFO nuke expert. The

30:33 Speaker 2: fact is Freddie o'dahll hi Freddy He's yeah.

30:38 Speaker 1: Is he local?

30:39 Speaker 2: He Freddy is is over in Denmark and so yeah,

30:45 Speaker 2: we had a nice discussion about about UFOs and in

30:51 Speaker 2: Greenland and and then and we had other topics, but

30:55 Speaker 2: he introduced me to the whole UFHO and nuke thing

30:59 Speaker 2: that I was I was familiar with, and it's I mean,

31:06 Speaker 2: I always need more data. Speaking with with other experts,

31:13 Speaker 2: their opinion is that you know, there's a correlation, but

31:19 Speaker 2: how much of a correlation because these type of facilities

31:23 Speaker 2: need cameras and other monitoring equipment for obvious security reasons.

31:28 Speaker 2: So when you look sooner or later, when you you know,

31:33 Speaker 2: let's say use the term rewind or go through all

31:36 Speaker 2: the footage whatever, you're going to see things. But but

31:40 Speaker 2: who's to say that you haven't seen similar things in

31:44 Speaker 2: other locations? So say it's like it's sort of I

31:46 Speaker 2: don't know if you call it pre biased or or

31:50 Speaker 2: or say site specific data as opposed to like a

31:55 Speaker 2: whole a whole population of you know, that's a statistical term,

31:59 Speaker 2: but a whole population of of data points taken in

32:02 Speaker 2: a larger area. That's you know, I have theories about

32:08 Speaker 2: why they hang out there, and.

32:09 Speaker 1: And well okay, yeah, let me let me rephrase this. Sure,

32:17 Speaker 1: any like any recent cases for you that you've investigated

32:23 Speaker 1: with dealing with, because it seems like, rather than the

32:26 Speaker 1: discs and the flying saucers that used to be seen,

32:31 Speaker 1: it's now orbs and balls of light and plasma that

32:36 Speaker 1: are being seen more often than not.

32:38 Speaker 2: Nice paradigm shift, isn't it.

32:40 Speaker 1: Yeah?

32:41 Speaker 2: Strange, isn't it?

32:42 Speaker 1: It's very strange.

32:44 Speaker 2: Yeah. The only exception to that rule is back in

32:50 Speaker 2: the day, ty, Yeah, certainly defined us but also let's

32:57 Speaker 2: call them triangles or boomerangs, right, like the famous Lubblic lights,

33:02 Speaker 2: which is still a big mystery, by the way, Spotted

33:05 Speaker 2: by a bunch of professors. That's how it was reported from.

33:10 Speaker 2: It was something Texas College Institute, but which was actually

33:14 Speaker 2: the the same school is where I went, Texas Tech.

33:17 Speaker 2: So yeah, so yeah, yeah, I did a little research

33:20 Speaker 2: on that. I thought that was funny. But in all

33:24 Speaker 2: sorts of theories behind what that that was or or

33:28 Speaker 2: was not, so so yeah, so those those two types

33:32 Speaker 2: of crap back down versus now, God's sakes, is almost

33:36 Speaker 2: any kind of anomena you've got, you've got rods, spheroids

33:42 Speaker 2: which are you know, have been have been let's say,

33:47 Speaker 2: studied and documented. This is referring to the Tedesco brothers.

33:52 Speaker 2: They had documented some spheroids that they had observed and

33:57 Speaker 2: recorded that were polyhedrons, which basically, oh is that right?

34:05 Speaker 1: Price is literally calling me do you sorry?

34:12 Speaker 2: Either way? So, so, so these these polyhedrons, it's not

34:18 Speaker 2: just a typical cube, it's it's it's well, it's a

34:23 Speaker 2: geometrical volume, let's say, surrounded by a plasma. And so yeah,

34:31 Speaker 2: so so yeah, pretty unusual and weird, and so then

34:33 Speaker 2: the whole question comes up. Some of these have been

34:37 Speaker 2: documented and shown to be to be suspect of being

34:45 Speaker 2: a let's call it either either a non human intelligence

34:50 Speaker 2: produced or else, let's say, highly rare or unusual craft,

34:56 Speaker 2: where others have been demonstrated or studied observed to have been,

35:02 Speaker 2: you know, nothing short of a different type of life form.

35:06 Speaker 1: What the right? You can't rule that out? That that

35:10 Speaker 1: and maybe that's what our ancestors saw and called god, right,

35:14 Speaker 1: is these these crafts, but they're not really craft they're

35:19 Speaker 1: more of the being itself. And maybe that's why, you know,

35:23 Speaker 1: they use language that they can only like that because

35:26 Speaker 1: they didn't have words like airplane, right, So they had

35:29 Speaker 1: to deframe it in ways that they could understand it

35:33 Speaker 1: and convey it. So, you know, what they called gods

35:37 Speaker 1: and angels and demons, maybe we call aliens and UFOs, right,

35:42 Speaker 1: So who's to say it's not just the same thing,

35:44 Speaker 1: like Jack vla Is put forth right, it's from fairies

35:48 Speaker 1: to gods and demons and angels all the way up

35:51 Speaker 1: to aliens and UFOs. What do you think UFOs represent

35:55 Speaker 1: to human beings?

35:59 Speaker 2: Is it the being weirded? Out, very very very strange.

36:07 Speaker 2: So so you know, I've investigated a different reports that

36:12 Speaker 2: that ranged from you know, and I you know, out

36:17 Speaker 2: of respect for the individuals and also just according to

36:22 Speaker 2: uh TO UH move on field investigator rules. And I

36:26 Speaker 2: won't say any specific cases or people, but I'll just

36:29 Speaker 2: say that, you know, we've had we've had abduction experiences

36:33 Speaker 2: where people know for a fact that they've been abducted

36:39 Speaker 2: and they felt all those sensations and they have specific memories.

36:45 Speaker 2: Yet you know, they either wind up, you know, back

36:49 Speaker 2: at home and and other people around them say that

36:54 Speaker 2: they had a similar experience at the same time, right,

36:57 Speaker 2: or or other people sort of just losing track of time,

37:03 Speaker 2: you know, from obvious missing time. Yeah, yeah, you know,

37:07 Speaker 2: I've I've had some experiences although they have not been

37:10 Speaker 2: abduction that you know that would really weird me out.

37:13 Speaker 2: And you know, I have a lot of empathy for

37:16 Speaker 2: people who've gone through that, the the crafts themselves. I

37:23 Speaker 2: think it's a cross between, you know, My my opinion

37:27 Speaker 2: is people would have a cross between being weirded out

37:32 Speaker 2: and also sort of mystified.

37:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, have you heard of Chris Bloods?

37:40 Speaker 2: Yes?

37:41 Speaker 1: What do you think think of his account. What do

37:43 Speaker 1: you think of his account? Because he puts it in

37:44 Speaker 1: that religious framework that he calls angels and you know,

37:50 Speaker 1: talks about the lady. But what he's filming and putting

37:53 Speaker 1: out there is these orbs. And I've been there when

37:56 Speaker 1: he's called them in was that Contact in the Desert

38:02 Speaker 1: and he did it, but I have a He invited

38:04 Speaker 1: me to his house to see it as well. I

38:07 Speaker 1: introduced him at Contact in the Desert before he did

38:10 Speaker 1: a workshop. I introduced him and I've had him on

38:14 Speaker 1: the show before. But he's always putting videos out of

38:16 Speaker 1: these like plasma orbs flying through the sky and like

38:22 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it looks like plasma going through it,

38:25 Speaker 1: but it's these perfect spheroids going through the sky and

38:28 Speaker 1: it's amazing. But he called he think he called, I

38:31 Speaker 1: don't we can take the religious framework off of it.

38:34 Speaker 1: Whereas he thinks he they're the angels. What do you

38:41 Speaker 1: do you think that those are craft? Or do you

38:43 Speaker 1: think those are like the Nhi themselves? So with your background,

38:49 Speaker 1: given your background.

38:54 Speaker 2: I honestly don't know. To be honest, I'm familiar with

39:01 Speaker 2: some of his work. I'm kind of a I'm kind

39:06 Speaker 2: of a more of a geek again, And so I've

39:10 Speaker 2: been I've been enthralled with in studying the work by

39:15 Speaker 2: the by the Tedesco brothers.

39:17 Speaker 1: John and Jerry for about three years.

39:20 Speaker 2: And yeah, there they are wonderful, and so with them,

39:25 Speaker 2: I'm certainly more familiar with with what they're theorizing or

39:29 Speaker 2: hypothesizing their observations. To be I I have my own

39:33 Speaker 2: thoughts on if it's if it's just a plain old plasmoid,

39:37 Speaker 2: and if it maintains its shape and it's not let's say,

39:43 Speaker 2: through different uh different multi spectral uh you know, instruments

39:50 Speaker 2: cameras or or whatnot, and and e M F sensors.

39:55 Speaker 2: If if it turns out that there's no underlying structure

40:00 Speaker 2: or there there are researchers out there that have discovered

40:05 Speaker 2: nanotubes in some of these plasma objects, it's at this

40:08 Speaker 2: whole other interesting, uh topic. But if there's nothing underlying

40:13 Speaker 2: and it's it's literally just let's call it plasma, which

40:17 Speaker 2: is it's an ionized gas, which means it's a gas

40:20 Speaker 2: that has charge, but it's contained in a spherical shape.

40:24 Speaker 1: Right.

40:27 Speaker 2: My. You know, there's there's a lot of different there's

40:30 Speaker 2: a lot of different things out there. Like some people say, well,

40:33 Speaker 2: depending on the color, it's it's an observation probe, or

40:40 Speaker 2: it is a destructive probe, like I'm sure you you

40:43 Speaker 2: know all the skin Walker narrative, like you know, the

40:45 Speaker 2: blue destructive orbs and so forth. Or it's a called

40:50 Speaker 2: a devious orb or manipulative or interactive, you know, in

40:56 Speaker 2: a negatively orb like you know, a red colored and

41:00 Speaker 2: and so forth. So my my thought is, and I

41:04 Speaker 2: wish I knew that I have I have I have two.

41:07 Speaker 2: I have two hypotheses. One is it's a type of

41:12 Speaker 2: it's a type of remote probe by you know, in

41:18 Speaker 2: all likelihood of non human origins, not yea non human

41:22 Speaker 2: intelligent origin. Or my second, my second hypothesis is, you know,

41:29 Speaker 2: again it's non human intelligence life form itself. And you know,

41:34 Speaker 2: people people time may may be thinking, okay, well that's

41:38 Speaker 2: a bunch of hocus pocus, or that's like either wishful

41:41 Speaker 2: thinking or it's magic or whatever, but really, if you

41:46 Speaker 2: think about it, you know, Jacques Cousteau or whomever, you know. Nowadays,

41:54 Speaker 2: new life forms underwater are always being discovered, So who

42:00 Speaker 2: to say that there aren't new life forms? You know,

42:04 Speaker 2: on the surface, in the air, whatever that we don't

42:07 Speaker 2: know about, because I mean, i'm you know, we don't,

42:11 Speaker 2: we don't. You know, the only person that knows everything

42:14 Speaker 2: generally speaking, you know, a person, a human being who

42:18 Speaker 2: claims to know everything is full of shit, you know that.

42:20 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of them in the community.

42:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, the most tells are people that

42:27 Speaker 2: I know you know are also the same people that

42:30 Speaker 2: will say, oh, I've never heard of that before, could

42:33 Speaker 2: you explain that to you? Which is a good thing,

42:35 Speaker 2: because that's how people learn from each.

42:37 Speaker 1: Other, right, And there's supposed to kind of be this

42:39 Speaker 1: natural discourse as well, is uh where you know and

42:44 Speaker 1: and that, And I find that to be healthy for

42:46 Speaker 1: someone to be a skeptic, it's one thing. A healthy

42:50 Speaker 1: skeptic is another, right, someone who's willing to be wrong

42:54 Speaker 1: if they're proof, you know, if the if the data

42:56 Speaker 1: set goes the right, you know, tells you one thing,

42:59 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's totally different. So I just

43:01 Speaker 1: find it odd that in Bob's Alice is Malmstrom incident

43:06 Speaker 1: in Dave Schindeli's mine, not air force based incident in

43:11 Speaker 1: Mario Woods's Ellsworth air force based incident, all of which

43:16 Speaker 1: had nuclear weapons, nuclear weapon facilities, all of which had him.

43:23 Speaker 1: All were breached by these orange plasma orbs and they

43:28 Speaker 1: either shut the nukes down in the Mine not and

43:32 Speaker 1: Malmstrom case, and then in Mario Woods's case at Ellsworth,

43:35 Speaker 1: he was abducted by it. So, I mean it tells

43:42 Speaker 1: me that I asked Bob, what do you think that

43:48 Speaker 1: the messages that is trying to be sent? And he said,

43:55 Speaker 1: he essentially said this to me. He said, it's a

43:58 Speaker 1: non human intelligence saying you think these are the most

44:03 Speaker 1: powerful weapons, but we can turn them off at a dime,

44:08 Speaker 1: so be careful. It was basically a warning to the

44:12 Speaker 1: humanity to not use them, get rid of them, right,

44:15 Speaker 1: And that's what he thinks, And I'm inclined to believe him,

44:20 Speaker 1: and and the other nuclear controllers who say this. They

44:22 Speaker 1: think that they are trying to send a message to humans,

44:25 Speaker 1: but without directly like landing on the White House lawn

44:28 Speaker 1: like everybody wants. They're trying to send us a message

44:33 Speaker 1: through the people like the key turners. I mean, who

44:37 Speaker 1: who better to to send that message to than the

44:39 Speaker 1: people who have their hands on the keys to the

44:42 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons. So if the president calls and wants to

44:45 Speaker 1: launch a strike, that persons the one who turns the key.

44:50 Speaker 1: So that's who I'm going to go to, not the president,

44:53 Speaker 1: not I mean, I don't probably if I was an NHI,

44:56 Speaker 1: i'd probably go to the president too, but I would

44:59 Speaker 1: go to the lawn lunch controller and change their perspective,

45:03 Speaker 1: you know, because there's so many times I'm sure you've

45:05 Speaker 1: heard in the Soviet Union where they turned the weapons

45:08 Speaker 1: on and we were seconds away from annihilation and one

45:13 Speaker 1: man said, no, I'm not launching. He said, there's something wrong.

45:18 Speaker 1: That man saved our lives, the whole world. But guess what,

45:22 Speaker 1: they killed them. They killed him for disobeying because they

45:26 Speaker 1: ordered a launch because they had thought that we were

45:29 Speaker 1: launching on them, and it turns out it was false

45:32 Speaker 1: and that guy was right and it was vindicated. But

45:35 Speaker 1: because he disobeyed and he wouldn't launch on command, they

45:38 Speaker 1: killed him. He saved the world that day. But these orbs,

45:45 Speaker 1: these things are trying to tell us something, and I

45:48 Speaker 1: think we're stupid, or it shows how intelligent we really

45:53 Speaker 1: are that we're not even willing to pay attention. We're

45:55 Speaker 1: more interested with what Kim Kardashian's wearing to the met gala.

46:00 Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, it is, and it does give you perspective

46:05 Speaker 2: tie well, I mean it's a it's always good to

46:07 Speaker 2: have a well a well balanced life, and so yeah,

46:12 Speaker 2: if people are interested in the Kardashians, whether that's great,

46:16 Speaker 2: but also to you know, let's say, be technically a

46:19 Speaker 2: stude or at least be aware of things. It's it

46:23 Speaker 2: is kind of interesting how these you know, these different

46:25 Speaker 2: UFO reports or observations or UAPs now make it into

46:31 Speaker 2: the mainstream media news on occasion, like be it Fox

46:34 Speaker 2: News or whatnot, and a lot of them. It's amazing

46:37 Speaker 2: that many people will still say, oh what what UFO

46:41 Speaker 2: report or what what u A P? Or I oh no,

46:44 Speaker 2: I didn't.

46:44 Speaker 1: News nations covering it all the time. The internet is

46:48 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's changing the paradigm. I really do.

46:52 Speaker 1: I think it's really the older people, the the fifty

46:56 Speaker 1: five plus age range, the ones that watch mainstream news

47:03 Speaker 1: and you know, kind of are a little bit old school.

47:06 Speaker 1: Those are the people that are less prone to take

47:09 Speaker 1: this seriously. For I, I and I understand it. It's

47:14 Speaker 1: the the the age range below that that's really like changing,

47:19 Speaker 1: you know, because how connected the internet makes everybody, right,

47:23 Speaker 1: it's it's allowing people to kind of express themselves but

47:27 Speaker 1: without being subjugated directly in person like, So it's changing

47:35 Speaker 1: the game, I think. But I want to talk about

47:40 Speaker 1: engineering infinity. But do you want to take a break

47:43 Speaker 1: real quick?

47:44 Speaker 3: And maybe yeah, and and then and closing with the

47:49 Speaker 3: with the plasmoid's tired, I will say that, you know,

47:53 Speaker 3: my my other hypothesis is that it's.

47:57 Speaker 2: Similar to there's there's something out there. I'm not sure

48:01 Speaker 2: you may have heard the term Boltzmann brain, and so

48:05 Speaker 2: there are there are plasmoids. Yeah, exactly, there are plasmoids

48:11 Speaker 2: and outer space related to I guess just you're probably

48:18 Speaker 2: where like so so you know, beyond the planet, so

48:20 Speaker 2: in the Solar System and in the galaxy and so forth,

48:23 Speaker 2: there are ionized gases and other types of gases and

48:27 Speaker 2: so forth left over from creation of the Solar System,

48:31 Speaker 2: of the palaxy of the universe. So you've got different

48:36 Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to say groups or or

48:40 Speaker 2: categories of of plasmas, which again that's that's a gas.

48:44 Speaker 1: And the different colors may kind of tell us what elements.

48:48 Speaker 1: It's true.

48:49 Speaker 2: That's true too. And I guess they've been observed, you know,

48:55 Speaker 2: I've only read a little bit on it, but they've

48:56 Speaker 2: they've been observed by astronomers, including physicist who is an

49:01 Speaker 2: astronomer by name of Lasson Boltzmann. And these things will

49:06 Speaker 2: move around in outer space. It look almost like they're

49:10 Speaker 2: hanging out with each other, running around, chasing each other,

49:14 Speaker 2: hang out in a group with with a bunch of others,

49:16 Speaker 2: and they seem to have a pseudo intelligence. And his

49:20 Speaker 2: theory was and I believe in his his theory in

49:24 Speaker 2: some cases, you know, like charges repel opposite charges attracts

49:29 Speaker 2: these charged gases and that's why they're running towards each

49:33 Speaker 2: other or chasing each other whatever. But in other cases,

49:37 Speaker 2: it is totally true. If you think of a neural

49:40 Speaker 2: network and how that's wired up or how that's programmed,

49:44 Speaker 2: that theoretically you could have charges arranged and you know,

49:50 Speaker 2: an immense amount you know, I'd say, you know, I'd

49:54 Speaker 2: say probably millions, if not more, of atoms and molecules

50:00 Speaker 2: in a given you know ion, you know, charge gas

50:04 Speaker 2: and out of space in such a way that there

50:06 Speaker 2: are electrical connections that are emulating or very similar to,

50:14 Speaker 2: uh to logical or even thought activity. So whether it's

50:19 Speaker 2: artificial intelligence wired up in a plasma gas, or if

50:23 Speaker 2: it's an actual, say, early form of life, and then

50:28 Speaker 2: there's all these different theories about what happens to that

50:31 Speaker 2: life form eventually and where they go and stuff, you

50:34 Speaker 2: know that part Who knows, but I definitely subscribe to

50:37 Speaker 2: the to the theory of the Boltzmann brain. That'll be

50:45 Speaker 2: cool if because like all the range right, all the

50:48 Speaker 2: rage right now AI and you could do all sorts

50:50 Speaker 2: of stuff and software and hardware and so forth. And

50:54 Speaker 2: you know, I'm interested in in uh, plasmoids, even though

50:58 Speaker 2: you could get burned no pun intended, that would be

51:01 Speaker 2: so cool to to create one, you know, whatever, how

51:04 Speaker 2: is a pet? A pet? I mean at least won't work,

51:06 Speaker 2: but walk your plasmoid around?

51:08 Speaker 1: That'd be insane, but could that be Uh Yeah, we'll

51:14 Speaker 1: take a break and we'll get back to this. But yeah,

51:17 Speaker 1: so all right, we'll be right back. Gone. Man, we're

51:23 Speaker 1: back on. So we were just talking about orbs and

51:28 Speaker 1: and plasmoids and stuff like that. I kind of want

51:32 Speaker 1: to talk about, uh what you what are your thoughts

51:35 Speaker 1: on Uh, do you think that the do you think

51:40 Speaker 1: that the US government or the deep state or whoever

51:44 Speaker 1: you want to call it, do you think that we

51:46 Speaker 1: are in possession of reverse engineered UFOs?

51:53 Speaker 2: Okay, Like, so my standard answer with that, like if

51:59 Speaker 2: if if I'm convinced of something, I'll I'll say it.

52:03 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm gonna have to refer back to

52:09 Speaker 2: my standard answer of I think there's something to it,

52:12 Speaker 2: and I don't know, Like a lot a lot of

52:15 Speaker 2: people are convinced we've got something, and I've heard from

52:21 Speaker 2: very good sources that I've known for a good part

52:24 Speaker 2: of my life that that the US has something. And so,

52:29 Speaker 2: you know, normally, based on on that, a lot of

52:32 Speaker 2: people would say yes. But I'm one of those people.

52:35 Speaker 2: Like seeing is believing, see with your own eyes, and

52:37 Speaker 2: and that's which is you know, No, indoubtedly, it's that's

52:41 Speaker 2: a source of frustration for well, have you seen.

52:44 Speaker 1: A billion dollars? Have you ever seen a billion dollars?

52:48 Speaker 2: Nope?

52:49 Speaker 1: You know it exists though, right.

52:52 Speaker 2: That's right?

52:53 Speaker 1: So you see what I mean totally without I.

52:57 Speaker 2: Think that there's high technology. I think that not not

53:01 Speaker 2: even cutting edge, not even bleeding edge. I think that

53:03 Speaker 2: there's ultra sophisticated technology out there, and you know, I'm convinced,

53:11 Speaker 2: I'm convinced that the US is in possession of it,

53:15 Speaker 2: as are you know, our adversaries. But you know where

53:19 Speaker 2: the origins are from, you know, where it's originated from?

53:24 Speaker 2: I don't know, Like, you know, there's theories like, oh,

53:27 Speaker 2: you know, there was a whole race of humans that

53:30 Speaker 2: that evolved and and we probably found things for them,

53:34 Speaker 2: and other other theorists are like, well, you know, it's

53:36 Speaker 2: non human intelligence originated and and so forth. So I'm

53:41 Speaker 2: you know, i'd say, I'd say, I'm nearly certain that

53:45 Speaker 2: that's you know, at least the major you know, the

53:48 Speaker 2: world superpowers or in possession of some extremely advanced technology

53:53 Speaker 2: of which the origins are uncertain, at least at least

53:59 Speaker 2: to me. I'll go there now. But you know, you know,

54:03 Speaker 2: were they non human where they evolved humans? Or maybe

54:08 Speaker 2: maybe you know, let's say I wouldn't collor an elite

54:12 Speaker 2: group of humans, but let's just say sort of a

54:15 Speaker 2: an outgrowth of a of a certain a certain group

54:20 Speaker 2: of people from from society somewhere, civilization, a breakaway civilization

54:27 Speaker 2: maybe maybe something like that.

54:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that too.

54:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is like that, that's like, you know,

54:37 Speaker 2: is it non human intelligence or originating craft? I'm on

54:40 Speaker 2: the fence, but is there is there something that our

54:45 Speaker 2: government is in possession of and and also the other

54:48 Speaker 2: superpowers that even they don't fully understand and they're trying

54:52 Speaker 2: to figure it out. Yeah, I'm like I'd say, I'm

54:54 Speaker 2: like maybe ninety percent certain. Just there's so much, there's

55:00 Speaker 2: so much out there and so many, so many you know,

55:04 Speaker 2: stories although they're here, say, and so much documentation. But

55:09 Speaker 2: but you go, you go by uh, you go buy

55:13 Speaker 2: some things like bizarre and of course uh Jane Sticko

55:18 Speaker 2: with Valorus's.

55:20 Speaker 1: Uh, I think those are connected.

55:22 Speaker 2: Oh, I totally think they are too. And and going

55:24 Speaker 2: by that, clearly there's advanced technology. Where where it comes from?

55:32 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't you know, I might be wrong,

55:36 Speaker 2: but I don't recall the phrase or terminology non human

55:44 Speaker 2: intelligence within engineering funny, But I might be wrong, And

55:51 Speaker 2: thatswer Jane, forgive me if I if I missed that,

55:53 Speaker 2: But but I I do recall and and I even

55:57 Speaker 2: had to check by a couple of folks I know

55:58 Speaker 2: that that speak fluent Rush and you know UFO is

56:02 Speaker 2: called out or the UFO and so that much you know,

56:07 Speaker 2: it's it's unidentified and you know, the origins from where

56:12 Speaker 2: not clear. You know, it's impact and interaction with the

56:18 Speaker 2: solar system, the galaxy, the universe totally totally there. And

56:26 Speaker 2: as far as as as far as you know, which

56:29 Speaker 2: intelligence originated it, it's that's that's not clear to me,

56:32 Speaker 2: but it's it's definitely stuff that's that's that's practically beyond

56:37 Speaker 2: human comprehension. And I understand bits and pieces of it,

56:40 Speaker 2: which is you know this, you know this, you know

56:42 Speaker 2: this work that gene and and Attalia put together with

56:47 Speaker 2: their colleague Mario on Vi Lyrius channel j Ed's work,

56:52 Speaker 2: so all in the book Engineering Infinity, you know, which

56:57 Speaker 2: is uh the lyricus the Soviet scientists, you know, either

57:04 Speaker 2: hypothesising you know, theoretical work or or hands on work

57:09 Speaker 2: of how such a craft would operate. You know, my

57:14 Speaker 2: my assessment based on based on what I can understand

57:17 Speaker 2: of it. You know, I can understand some of the chemistry,

57:21 Speaker 2: a lot of the electrical engineering. It looks it looks

57:24 Speaker 2: certainly real enough to me. But although there is a

57:28 Speaker 2: lot of stuff that's like above my head as far

57:30 Speaker 2: as understanding.

57:32 Speaker 1: Right, and because you know, mathematics is a universal language, right,

57:36 Speaker 1: and so that part of it you're you're you're kind

57:40 Speaker 1: of looking at it and seeing it and validating that

57:43 Speaker 1: it's you know that that part of it it can

57:47 Speaker 1: be vindicated. So I think there is.

57:50 Speaker 2: Some debate on that tie because, like I was, I

57:53 Speaker 2: was explained to Gene that there was something times ten

57:57 Speaker 2: to the power of three, know, in other words, a thousand.

58:01 Speaker 2: So there's there's international standards of scientific notation, which is

58:07 Speaker 2: very similar to mathematics, which you say, is the universal language,

58:12 Speaker 2: like kilograms uh meters, you know, so representing things in

58:18 Speaker 2: power of powers of ten. So like that's how scientists

58:22 Speaker 2: and engineers do. It's like if you want to say

58:23 Speaker 2: a thousand, you would say, well, if you have ten

58:25 Speaker 2: to the three particles of whatever, right, So, but you know,

58:30 Speaker 2: so that's what I was trying to convey to Gene

58:32 Speaker 2: stick of the author of Jeri Infinity. But his point

58:35 Speaker 2: was that in Russian there three different the number three

58:41 Speaker 2: or you know what looks like a three. I think

58:43 Speaker 2: he was explained to me there were three different meanings

58:46 Speaker 2: in Russian cyrillic. They could be they could be a

58:50 Speaker 2: few different things.

58:52 Speaker 1: Which yeah, complicates a lot of that.

58:54 Speaker 2: Yeah. So so from that perspective, you know that that

58:58 Speaker 2: threw me off a little bit. So then I kind

58:59 Speaker 2: of took a step back and I said, Okay, well,

59:01 Speaker 2: I'm gonna stick with the basic equations for magnetic fields

59:07 Speaker 2: and you know voltage and so forth, and little rents

59:12 Speaker 2: for us and and things like that that you get

59:14 Speaker 2: electrical engineering and you know interaction with particles in charge

59:19 Speaker 2: and you know those those things so far, you know,

59:23 Speaker 2: I've I don't know if you want to say, cross

59:25 Speaker 2: examined or sanity checked, and they they look correct to me.

59:29 Speaker 2: And I've I've shown some of these things to a

59:31 Speaker 2: few colleagues, right.

59:33 Speaker 1: And you know what baffles me is in the nineteen fifties,

59:37 Speaker 1: you know, in magazines at the time, which were still

59:40 Speaker 1: a thing popular mechanics, engineering whatever. In the fifties, it

59:48 Speaker 1: was all about where about the g engines are coming right,

59:52 Speaker 1: and we're in all these people, all these scientists are

59:57 Speaker 1: talking about how we're about to crack groundvity and we're

1:00:01 Speaker 1: on the cusp of being able to manipulate gravity, uh YadA, YadA.

1:00:05 Speaker 1: And then in the late fifties, it just goes on,

1:00:11 Speaker 1: it goes HiT's a wall and has never talked about again.

1:00:15 Speaker 1: So you have to ask yourself. It's like, okay, well

1:00:17 Speaker 1: what happened. Either it was a catastrophic failure and science

1:00:22 Speaker 1: want to cover it, coverts ass and not show that

1:00:24 Speaker 1: it spent this bunch of money and failed, or it

1:00:30 Speaker 1: worked and it went underground into the deep black programs

1:00:34 Speaker 1: of what was being established then as the military industrial complex, right,

1:00:41 Speaker 1: because that's you know, in forty seven forty eight, the

1:00:43 Speaker 1: National Security Act is signed into law NSAY, FBI, CIA,

1:00:49 Speaker 1: They're all formed between forty seven and fifty two, so

1:00:54 Speaker 1: I think, and they're seizing patents left and right. They're

1:00:59 Speaker 1: just sees patents, and then they're telling people that you know,

1:01:04 Speaker 1: your patent is either going to end up on a

1:01:06 Speaker 1: shelf or you can only only contract with us, the

1:01:10 Speaker 1: US government, because of national security reasons. And so at

1:01:16 Speaker 1: that point, you know, if you if you were an inventor,

1:01:20 Speaker 1: you have an invention that is gravity related, you're it's

1:01:26 Speaker 1: seized by the government and they say you can only

1:01:28 Speaker 1: work with us due to national security reasons. Well that's there.

1:01:32 Speaker 1: You go, there's your funnel and that's how it ends

1:01:34 Speaker 1: up in the black programs, and then Eisenhower ends up

1:01:37 Speaker 1: warning us about it the military industrial complex and what

1:01:40 Speaker 1: it was growing to be Lockheed Martin, you know, ras

1:01:45 Speaker 1: Koltart just came out and said that the TIC TAC

1:01:47 Speaker 1: is most likely Lockheed Martin techtonic technology from the two

1:01:52 Speaker 1: thousand and four craft. So Electro, I think that there's

1:01:57 Speaker 1: something to this, that these craft are creating their own

1:02:02 Speaker 1: gravity and essentially falling through space and time, and that's why,

1:02:09 Speaker 1: you know, so I think it's all connected. I think

1:02:12 Speaker 1: gravity research why it went.

1:02:13 Speaker 2: Underground, certainly, I mean where it went, you know, like

1:02:18 Speaker 2: the military industrial complex or some other theories. I'm on

1:02:23 Speaker 2: the fence, sorry when I when I say that, but

1:02:25 Speaker 2: but but the fact that they're all connected, I'm I'm

1:02:28 Speaker 2: totally in agreeing with. And the thing that gets blurred

1:02:32 Speaker 2: to me is, you know, so it's it's it's well

1:02:37 Speaker 2: known out there that you know, and it was already

1:02:39 Speaker 2: stated in Congress that due to national security reasons, the

1:02:44 Speaker 2: country and people involved with certain programs are not allowed

1:02:49 Speaker 2: to openly acknowledge these programs. And the reason is because

1:02:53 Speaker 2: you jeopardize national security, and you know, so you say,

1:02:57 Speaker 2: have some great guys that are advocating for disclosure, but

1:03:00 Speaker 2: you know, in an open form a congress like well,

1:03:03 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Ram, I can only discuss that Departmental Information

1:03:09 Speaker 2: facility aka skiff s C. I F some people get frustrated,

1:03:13 Speaker 2: but I could see that being used as a mechanism

1:03:17 Speaker 2: to avoid disclosure. But you know, my my hunches a

1:03:20 Speaker 2: lot of it, especially for the good you know, the

1:03:23 Speaker 2: well intentioned folk that are trying to disclose things. They're

1:03:26 Speaker 2: just trying to obey the rules to protect themselves but

1:03:29 Speaker 2: also to make sure that security doesn't get compromised. So

1:03:33 Speaker 2: you know, I'll go as far as that. And I

1:03:35 Speaker 2: I really don't know about this military industrial complex. And

1:03:39 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's some degree. I have no doubt about that,

1:03:41 Speaker 2: but I'm not sure if I'm not sure how far

1:03:45 Speaker 2: deep it goes, you know, I just yeah.

1:03:47 Speaker 1: Well, there's a theory that the craft themselves.

1:03:52 Speaker 2: I warned about, like you said, which I do know

1:03:54 Speaker 2: historically he warned about it. Yeah, then, like you said,

1:03:57 Speaker 2: there's something to it. The question is because point in

1:04:00 Speaker 2: time did they stop doing that nonsense?

1:04:02 Speaker 1: If they did right right, right, and and because there's

1:04:06 Speaker 1: there's this theory that the craft themselves may be engineered

1:04:10 Speaker 1: to focus or manipulate em fields. Can you explain how

1:04:14 Speaker 1: the material of a craft might contribute to its ability

1:04:18 Speaker 1: to warp gravity or space time?

1:04:20 Speaker 2: Yeah? Crazy stuff, isn't it crazy? So that that's a mouthful, Yeah,

1:04:25 Speaker 2: it is a mouthful. So so so the more and

1:04:29 Speaker 2: more I read into engineering infinity, the more and more

1:04:35 Speaker 2: I learn. So I I skim through something and if

1:04:40 Speaker 2: I'm interested, I read it again and absorb what I can.

1:04:43 Speaker 2: And then when I read it again later because I

1:04:46 Speaker 2: you know, I kind of like I kind of like

1:04:48 Speaker 2: pick bits and pieces of different different passages or different

1:04:52 Speaker 2: sections of the book that that kind of capture my intention.

1:04:58 Speaker 2: You know, it's been it's been a long time since

1:04:59 Speaker 2: I've read one book through completely. I just go by

1:05:03 Speaker 2: whatever captures my attention, and and so yeah, I had

1:05:07 Speaker 2: a little bit of of an epiphany, not not too much,

1:05:10 Speaker 2: but as I absorbed the material, everything makes sense in

1:05:16 Speaker 2: terms of Valerous his his science and engineering log of

1:05:26 Speaker 2: manipulation of of time space fabric and how that that

1:05:31 Speaker 2: plays into creating gravitational fields. So so I guess I

1:05:38 Speaker 2: guess it's well's it's gonna it's gonna be kind of

1:05:40 Speaker 2: a long answer. It's it's not really a it's not

1:05:43 Speaker 2: really like a one sentence thing. So if you're ready,

1:05:45 Speaker 2: I can kind of tell you what my understanding is. Okay, So,

1:05:50 Speaker 2: so time space fabric something that actually everybody under uh

1:05:55 Speaker 2: everybody experiences, but not everyone out there can understand a

1:06:01 Speaker 2: lot of people may not be aware that our cell phones,

1:06:05 Speaker 2: also known as our smartphones, our iPhones, are androids, even

1:06:09 Speaker 2: a flip phone whatever. They operate most of the time

1:06:15 Speaker 2: one way or another through communication satellites orbiting the Earth,

1:06:19 Speaker 2: and then things go through cell towers, et cetera. So

1:06:23 Speaker 2: the time and a synchronization of it comes with respect

1:06:28 Speaker 2: to to satellite synchronization and telecommunication of communication weaves. I'll

1:06:36 Speaker 2: just keep that in a general Bland term. So, these

1:06:42 Speaker 2: satellites actually in geosynchronous orbit are further away from the

1:06:51 Speaker 2: Earth's center of gravity. So in other words, they're orbiting

1:06:53 Speaker 2: the Earth because they're they're pulled in gravitational field and

1:06:58 Speaker 2: so forth, and there's other reasons while they're orbiting. But

1:07:02 Speaker 2: in any case, in outer space or called geosynchronous orbit,

1:07:07 Speaker 2: time space fabric is let's say, let's just say it's

1:07:12 Speaker 2: it's a certain picture of horizontal vertical line. So it's

1:07:16 Speaker 2: like a it's like a grid thing. And as you

1:07:20 Speaker 2: get closer and closer to the Earth or to anything,

1:07:23 Speaker 2: the sun or whatever, you have a massive object and

1:07:27 Speaker 2: time space fabric gets warped or distorted the exactly. And

1:07:33 Speaker 2: that's due to the huge amount of mass and a

1:07:38 Speaker 2: small and a small space. And so here we are

1:07:42 Speaker 2: on the planet, and so time actually moves a little

1:07:50 Speaker 2: bit slower, and the reason is that the center of

1:07:55 Speaker 2: gravity has stretched out time space fabric. So now the

1:08:00 Speaker 2: words something that say, for example, you go from point

1:08:04 Speaker 2: A to point B, and I don't know, it's it's

1:08:07 Speaker 2: this long and out of space. Well just as a

1:08:10 Speaker 2: as a you know, really simple example. Imagine this thing

1:08:13 Speaker 2: being horizontally stretched twice as long on the planet. So

1:08:19 Speaker 2: to sync it up when your phone gets the signal,

1:08:22 Speaker 2: your phone, you know, because it's all software honestly running

1:08:25 Speaker 2: on hardware, your phone compensates for that so that you

1:08:29 Speaker 2: have the accurate time and so that you're let's say synchronized,

1:08:33 Speaker 2: or that you're operating in real time with respect to

1:08:36 Speaker 2: the satellites. So I tried to make that in layman's language.

1:08:40 Speaker 2: But the bottom line is when you when you look

1:08:45 Speaker 2: around or when you're looking at out of space or whatever,

1:08:48 Speaker 2: you think three dimensions, right, But actually there's at least

1:08:52 Speaker 2: a fourth dimension, which is time.

1:08:54 Speaker 1: I would agree, And.

1:08:55 Speaker 2: That's why I like, for example, you know, astronomers or whatever,

1:08:58 Speaker 2: we talk in terms of life years, the amount of

1:09:01 Speaker 2: time it takes for later travel in one year, the

1:09:07 Speaker 2: distance amount of time, and.

1:09:10 Speaker 1: Which has to be a constant in order to I mean,

1:09:16 Speaker 1: it has to be a constant and something we agree upon.

1:09:21 Speaker 2: So the distance I should say it travels, uh uh,

1:09:25 Speaker 2: you know in time over of course one year, and yeah,

1:09:27 Speaker 2: it has to agreed upon constant.

1:09:29 Speaker 1: It's agreed as an agreed upon constant, so that the

1:09:31 Speaker 1: math works and checks out, you know. So it's funny

1:09:36 Speaker 1: to me because I mean, I'm not going to go

1:09:41 Speaker 1: down that rabbital actually, but it's it's I see what

1:09:46 Speaker 1: you're saying. So what does that mean for UFOs.

1:09:52 Speaker 2: A sec here? So now that we understand a little

1:09:59 Speaker 2: bit about out how time space fabric is basically distorted

1:10:04 Speaker 2: and stretched or warped, and and you made an imaginary well,

1:10:07 Speaker 2: here's the planet Earth and around it, it's kind of

1:10:10 Speaker 2: going like that, and there's other theories about as a result.

1:10:15 Speaker 2: That's that's part of the reason for orbiting, not just

1:10:18 Speaker 2: not gravitational force per se, but because there's a certain

1:10:22 Speaker 2: amount of warpage. And so you know, astronomical bodies are

1:10:25 Speaker 2: kind of almost like if you can picture a marble

1:10:27 Speaker 2: going around something. I don't really understand that much about it.

1:10:31 Speaker 2: That's that's all my air of expertise, but I do

1:10:33 Speaker 2: know that that comes into into play. But anyway, so

1:10:37 Speaker 2: now that we understand how time space fabric gets warped,

1:10:41 Speaker 2: the next question is how does that relate to your foes. Well,

1:10:44 Speaker 2: if you can imagine, and again you know I did.

1:10:47 Speaker 2: I did learn this from from lou But if if

1:10:50 Speaker 2: you can imagine, you know, I saw this in his interviews,

1:10:55 Speaker 2: it's even easier than writing. It's great. Uh So, what

1:10:58 Speaker 2: if what if this was time space fabric hare and

1:11:02 Speaker 2: you had a ship or craft that wanted to travel

1:11:05 Speaker 2: from point A to point B and it had to

1:11:07 Speaker 2: go oh this distance here. But what if somehow you

1:11:11 Speaker 2: had the ability to put an enormous mass right there pinpoint,

1:11:15 Speaker 2: almost like a black hole, so that it's distorting time

1:11:19 Speaker 2: space fabric like that and now the ships a point

1:11:25 Speaker 2: b like this a short amount of time as opposed

1:11:28 Speaker 2: to longer amount of time.

1:11:30 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, so well that's interesting, but that would

1:11:34 Speaker 1: mean you have the amount of energy you would need

1:11:37 Speaker 1: to create a massive black hole, is.

1:11:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is one of my theories about and again

1:11:43 Speaker 2: it's only it's actually it's an apothesis. It's not even

1:11:45 Speaker 2: a theory, it's a hypothesis shot on a dark hypothesis.

1:11:49 Speaker 2: But you know why if these things are truly hanging

1:11:52 Speaker 2: out near nuclear facilities, why, well, there's a massive amount

1:11:55 Speaker 2: of energy that something advanced could absorb, and you know,

1:11:58 Speaker 2: maybe they're using.

1:11:59 Speaker 1: It for fuel sources or whatever. Because it's like you said,

1:12:05 Speaker 1: it's that's it's it's like exactly one. And honestly, it

1:12:15 Speaker 1: it makes sense that they would be hanging around there

1:12:17 Speaker 1: for multiple reasons, one of them being yours mine. Another

1:12:21 Speaker 1: one being that if if there was a site of

1:12:25 Speaker 1: the apocalypse, if there is going to be an apocalypse,

1:12:29 Speaker 1: that's most likely the place that's going to be ground zero,

1:12:33 Speaker 1: right like our nuclear facilities. That's what's going to end

1:12:39 Speaker 1: the world if it does. If it were to end,

1:12:42 Speaker 1: the most likely cause would be nuclear war idiots, human

1:12:46 Speaker 1: beings making that decision, and those would be the places

1:12:50 Speaker 1: where you would need to a send messages to the

1:12:55 Speaker 1: people inside to alter history. So what if they're future

1:13:00 Speaker 1: humans coming back in time to alter of catastrophic ending? Right?

1:13:07 Speaker 1: What if that I keep coughing on, my god, but

1:13:11 Speaker 1: what if these what if that's why we're seeing them

1:13:13 Speaker 1: in in in in our nuclear facilities and what you know,

1:13:17 Speaker 1: what if they're influencing the people in them for a

1:13:20 Speaker 1: reason because it changes time and whatever happened in the

1:13:25 Speaker 1: future to ruin whatever you know, ruin the planet or

1:13:30 Speaker 1: in the world as as we knew it.

1:13:33 Speaker 2: And that's that's as valid as as any as as

1:13:38 Speaker 2: any theory on on on the on the time space

1:13:44 Speaker 2: fabric distortion. So these things, you know, could be traversing

1:13:50 Speaker 2: time space and coming back from the future or any

1:13:52 Speaker 2: any point in time. The only component left to understand.

1:13:57 Speaker 2: And it's actually it's interesting because it's cleverly written and

1:14:00 Speaker 2: the lyriuses work well. But there's a lot of components

1:14:05 Speaker 2: to understand this craft, which is why he breaks up

1:14:07 Speaker 2: to I want to say, like twenty works, uh two

1:14:09 Speaker 2: ninety pages according to Gene And yeah, because I always forget,

1:14:14 Speaker 2: but I think I memorize it. Now another well, another'll

1:14:19 Speaker 2: say key component, so you understand how to warp time

1:14:24 Speaker 2: space fabric to traverse great distances. So the other key

1:14:29 Speaker 2: component is, well, how do you do it? How do

1:14:31 Speaker 2: you get a humongous mass in a teeny tiny you know,

1:14:36 Speaker 2: point of a pen or point of a pinhead or

1:14:39 Speaker 2: infinitesimally small point. And according to Lyrius's work, uh, there's

1:14:45 Speaker 2: there's well actually a bunch of key components. But one

1:14:48 Speaker 2: of the major key components is he refers to as

1:14:51 Speaker 2: a solenoid. It's a general it's more generalized than that,

1:14:55 Speaker 2: but anyways, it's a it's a coil of for for

1:15:00 Speaker 2: human purposes or let's say, less complicated beings like I'll

1:15:04 Speaker 2: sign a whole planet that we know of. It's just

1:15:06 Speaker 2: wire wind around and which is like, you know, an electromagnet,

1:15:11 Speaker 2: and yeah, so that's referred.

1:15:13 Speaker 1: To as a tesla coil almost.

1:15:16 Speaker 2: You can compare it to something like that. It's a

1:15:17 Speaker 2: it's a coil wire. And so when you have electricity

1:15:22 Speaker 2: flowing through it this way, we're going to demonstrate the

1:15:24 Speaker 2: right hand rule. Electrons flowing through this way, then perpendicular

1:15:30 Speaker 2: to it, which is my thumb electrical engineering right hand rule.

1:15:34 Speaker 2: You have a magnetic feel, yes, and then perpendicular to

1:15:40 Speaker 2: these things you have, you have a cross product that's

1:15:45 Speaker 2: an electrical engineering term of something known as a Lorentz force.

1:15:50 Speaker 2: I believe the Heinrich or somebody or other, BUTLRI and

1:15:55 Speaker 2: Tz force. So those three things acting together, which come

1:15:59 Speaker 2: out with a lot of logic reasoning, heck of a

1:16:02 Speaker 2: lot of electrical engineering equations, some chemistry, some quantum physics.

1:16:06 Speaker 2: On that book which is free by the way, on

1:16:10 Speaker 2: on Engineering affinitybook dot com, which I think is a great.

1:16:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worth a download and a look. Yeah, because

1:16:19 Speaker 1: it's essentially for people because we've referenced it a lot.

1:16:22 Speaker 1: It's a basically it's the first like it's either it's

1:16:27 Speaker 1: either an official work of a scientist from the Soviet

1:16:31 Speaker 1: Union who was in some sort of program like Lazarre,

1:16:35 Speaker 1: or he had access like Lazarre and he was documenting

1:16:40 Speaker 1: it on his own time. Either way, he was involved

1:16:44 Speaker 1: in some sort of program that dealt with UFOs, because

1:16:47 Speaker 1: there's no way he would be just you know, grabbing

1:16:51 Speaker 1: this stuff from the ether. So it's definitely I have

1:16:55 Speaker 1: a poster of it you can't see, but like the

1:16:57 Speaker 1: work in it is so detailed that it's like this

1:17:00 Speaker 1: guy's either this guy's either one of those people like

1:17:04 Speaker 1: Eric Davis who has a photographic memory and he's going

1:17:07 Speaker 1: into the program every day and then coming out of

1:17:09 Speaker 1: the program and just writing down everything he remembers, or

1:17:13 Speaker 1: he's it's a little bit more open and he can

1:17:15 Speaker 1: bring a journal in and he's working on it like that.

1:17:18 Speaker 1: But then the fall of the Soviet Union happens, so

1:17:22 Speaker 1: there's no oversight, and he wants to protect the information

1:17:26 Speaker 1: like a patriot would, so he keeps it to himself, right,

1:17:30 Speaker 1: because there's you can't trust anyone that Soviet Union has

1:17:33 Speaker 1: now fallen, you know, you're you're so you know a

1:17:37 Speaker 1: guy like that who's very patriotic, Right, he's going to

1:17:43 Speaker 1: be like, I'm going to protect this at all costs

1:17:45 Speaker 1: because this is one of the state secrets, right, So

1:17:48 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give it to just anybody that's

1:17:50 Speaker 1: gonna die with me if it needs to, right, And

1:17:52 Speaker 1: that's what happened, or that's how it's supposed to happen

1:17:56 Speaker 1: to happen. So that baffles me, and it's else so

1:18:01 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really even think it's I mean,

1:18:04 Speaker 1: it'd be nice to know which which it was, but

1:18:07 Speaker 1: I don't think it's super relevant because it just for me,

1:18:10 Speaker 1: it shows that there was some sort of Soviet Soviet

1:18:13 Speaker 1: program similar to what was happening in the United States.

1:18:17 Speaker 2: During the same time, during the.

1:18:19 Speaker 1: Same time Cold War, when both countries are seeing this

1:18:24 Speaker 1: uptick in UFOs at nuclear facilities. What the fuck is

1:18:28 Speaker 1: going on?

1:18:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that whole and like you said, the

1:18:32 Speaker 2: whole effort about manipulating gravity, and then it went silent

1:18:36 Speaker 2: soon after.

1:18:37 Speaker 1: You ever heard of Tea Townsend Brown, so.

1:18:40 Speaker 2: Migneto hydrodynamic propulsion, which but yeah, he was, he was

1:18:49 Speaker 2: doing that work in the fifties. Valarius's work came on

1:18:55 Speaker 2: after that. I want to say it was like in

1:18:57 Speaker 2: a early eighties. I'm not sure if he a few

1:19:00 Speaker 2: references and uh and and is working out, but it's

1:19:03 Speaker 2: it's definitely it definitely takes into account things that Brown.

1:19:10 Speaker 1: Well, I think that elements. I think just just like

1:19:14 Speaker 1: the FBI raided Tesla's they raided the New Yorker when

1:19:20 Speaker 1: Tesla died, and they took some of his.

1:19:23 Speaker 2: Work, spent the rest of his life in a hotel.

1:19:26 Speaker 1: Yes, essentially, right, And that's what's mainstream science will do

1:19:31 Speaker 1: to genius. They'll isolate it because they couldn't because JP.

1:19:36 Speaker 1: Morgan Chase couldn't put a meter on it like you

1:19:38 Speaker 1: could could with Thomas Jefferson's I'm sorry, not Thomas Jefferson.

1:19:43 Speaker 1: Was it Edison? So Edison's work was all wired and

1:19:47 Speaker 1: you could put that's you know, why are we still

1:19:51 Speaker 1: using that technology? By the way, right, Tesla was far.

1:19:56 Speaker 2: More danced exactly. It was about money and greed and

1:19:58 Speaker 2: and what they could control over so that they could.

1:20:01 Speaker 1: Well, they could put a meter on I'm still sending

1:20:04 Speaker 1: numbers of my meter to people to National Grid and

1:20:08 Speaker 1: having them charge me for electricity. When Tesla proved that

1:20:12 Speaker 1: he could pull it from the ether, pull it from

1:20:14 Speaker 1: space time itself, and then it's all around us and

1:20:17 Speaker 1: we could power the world. And they took that power. Yeah,

1:20:23 Speaker 1: so they take that, right, the FBI raids this hotel

1:20:28 Speaker 1: takes that. Then then T Townsend Brown's work goes dark

1:20:36 Speaker 1: in the fifties after they talk about the g Engines coming.

1:20:39 Speaker 1: So I think the government or the deep state slowly

1:20:43 Speaker 1: but surely took over and they had the keys to

1:20:48 Speaker 1: the kingdom, right, it's they had the anti gravity, they

1:20:52 Speaker 1: had the scientists working on it in the fifties. All

1:20:56 Speaker 1: you have to do is classify it. So I think

1:20:59 Speaker 1: they classified the whole area of physics. And that's like

1:21:02 Speaker 1: classifying snails. It's like classifying reality.

1:21:07 Speaker 2: That's crazy, right, right. So so there's a lot.

1:21:09 Speaker 1: Of like strength theory. I think it's a huge waste

1:21:12 Speaker 1: of time.

1:21:14 Speaker 2: You know, you're get touched on a valid point, and

1:21:17 Speaker 2: a lot of.

1:21:18 Speaker 1: I think it was a misdirect.

1:21:20 Speaker 2: A lot of a lot of the UFO U a

1:21:22 Speaker 2: P community, you know, is in an uproar in that

1:21:26 Speaker 2: they feel that humanity has been held down, yes, and

1:21:30 Speaker 2: and we've had the lack of progress. You know, this

1:21:34 Speaker 2: is this is one common belief. There's been a lack

1:21:36 Speaker 2: of progress for humanity and all sorts of technologies for

1:21:41 Speaker 2: this reason. And some some major influencers or some major

1:21:45 Speaker 2: say knowledgeable people in the field will say that's what's

1:21:49 Speaker 2: going on. And then you know, other people say, well,

1:21:54 Speaker 2: we have it, but it's all been concentrated towards developing

1:21:59 Speaker 2: you know, better weapons. Is against our adversary, you know,

1:22:03 Speaker 2: which is which is what I like about the way,

1:22:07 Speaker 2: you know, Jean Sticko took his book and it's it's

1:22:11 Speaker 2: on the website. Just just flip flip through the pages.

1:22:14 Speaker 2: It's right there. And so to me, that's a huge

1:22:18 Speaker 2: contribution to society. So that's so my, you know, my

1:22:23 Speaker 2: The irony that I like to keep repeating over and

1:22:26 Speaker 2: over is, Okay, the US and the Soviet Union, we're adversaries, right,

1:22:32 Speaker 2: and so one way or another because Larus, you know,

1:22:36 Speaker 2: in his final days, you know, he had a lot

1:22:40 Speaker 2: of time and energy invested in this work. The Soviet

1:22:44 Speaker 2: Union collapsed, and you know, he had a beloved grandson,

1:22:49 Speaker 2: son of of Italian and Gene Sticico, and so he's like, okay, well,

1:22:56 Speaker 2: you know, since since aj his grandson is interested in

1:22:59 Speaker 2: aeronautical engine airing or whatnot, why don't I just send

1:23:02 Speaker 2: it to them because he's interested, you know, according to

1:23:05 Speaker 2: discussions that that Gene and I had. So from that perspective,

1:23:12 Speaker 2: you could say an adversary to the US spilled the

1:23:16 Speaker 2: beans on UFO technology, you could you could say, you know,

1:23:21 Speaker 2: so I like alluding to that now was that it

1:23:29 Speaker 2: wasn't his intention. It's just he wanted something to be

1:23:34 Speaker 2: done with his work because you know, as as you

1:23:37 Speaker 2: just said, you know, he held on to it because

1:23:40 Speaker 2: he didn't know who to trust, so union collapse, et cetera.

1:23:43 Speaker 2: And the guy's like, oh and so you know, so

1:23:45 Speaker 2: Jane and then Nattia looked at it, translated it and

1:23:49 Speaker 2: worked with the colleague Mario, and and I published it.

1:23:54 Speaker 2: And I think Jane told me November of twenty or

1:24:00 Speaker 2: you know, so last year, and uh, and now you know,

1:24:03 Speaker 2: it's like if you want to have a bound copy

1:24:06 Speaker 2: and you know, you know the bound copy is great,

1:24:09 Speaker 2: then then go for it. And until then, you know,

1:24:11 Speaker 2: you just thumb through it online.

1:24:14 Speaker 1: But it's pretty amazing, and it's but it's like you said,

1:24:17 Speaker 1: it's it's actually Soviet Union. A Soviet scientist.

1:24:24 Speaker 2: Leaked, not leaked Soviet Union. Yeah, right, So then it

1:24:29 Speaker 2: became he was in Kazakhstan. So I guess you would

1:24:34 Speaker 2: say a close ally of Russia's and that gets into

1:24:38 Speaker 2: the whole thing behind you know, why there were patents

1:24:42 Speaker 2: and and things like that, you know, and right, but

1:24:45 Speaker 2: but the point is, let's say a close ally of

1:24:48 Speaker 2: Russia's that was formerly part of the USSR Soviet Union

1:24:56 Speaker 2: had this material and you know, with highly good intentions,

1:25:01 Speaker 2: hold on to it for because I'm a loyalist party member.

1:25:04 Speaker 2: And then guy at that point is like, well, to Jesus,

1:25:07 Speaker 2: I'm about ready to die on unfortunately medical reasons. Well

1:25:11 Speaker 2: why does my grandson have it? So no, no mal intent,

1:25:14 Speaker 2: but by definition, right, by definition, you know, and I

1:25:18 Speaker 2: ran it by by Tim Phillips, former Deputy Director Varro

1:25:22 Speaker 2: I said how would that be viewed? And that was

1:25:24 Speaker 2: actually jeans question that it was how would that be

1:25:26 Speaker 2: viewed by the intelligence community? And and Tim say, well,

1:25:30 Speaker 2: by definition. You know, he's a great person, brilliant guy,

1:25:34 Speaker 2: and for God's sakes, I feel that he he he's

1:25:38 Speaker 2: benefited humankind. I mean, I'm growing from it. A lot

1:25:41 Speaker 2: of other people reading this now, and hopefully our technology

1:25:44 Speaker 2: can progress. So he's a he's a hero. But the

1:25:47 Speaker 2: act of what he did, by definition according to the

1:25:49 Speaker 2: intelligence community, yes, yes, bye bye, by what he did right,

1:25:58 Speaker 2: But on the other hand, you know, it's like, who

1:26:00 Speaker 2: the fuck was he got? I mean, obviously you can't

1:26:02 Speaker 2: see if you do that, you should expect consequences. The guy,

1:26:06 Speaker 2: unfortunately was passing away, and it's like, who the fuck

1:26:09 Speaker 2: was going to take over this work? Because it sounds

1:26:11 Speaker 2: like sounds like no.

1:26:12 Speaker 1: One right, right right, because people thought he was crazy people,

1:26:17 Speaker 1: you know, and it's this whole thing. So and I like,

1:26:22 Speaker 1: I said, the And then you get you start getting

1:26:25 Speaker 1: into it and you realize that you start realizing the implications.

1:26:31 Speaker 1: And the implications are that at the same time Lazaar

1:26:34 Speaker 1: is seeing his craft and what the sports model meet

1:26:40 Speaker 1: the same at that same time, or maybe a little

1:26:43 Speaker 1: bit before hmm, Valarious is also seeing the same kind

1:26:53 Speaker 1: of craft. So both countries seem to have access to it.

1:26:57 Speaker 1: So how were they getting it? Were the were they

1:27:00 Speaker 1: finding these things? Are they gifts or they crash retrievals?

1:27:04 Speaker 1: Like are these things crashing? Where are we getting them from?

1:27:07 Speaker 2: Do you think if I remember correctly, I mean I

1:27:13 Speaker 2: saw I watched the Bob Azar did you You must

1:27:16 Speaker 2: have seen his his own self released video documentary from

1:27:21 Speaker 2: the eighties, and he and at the end he goes, well,

1:27:24 Speaker 2: was all that true? Well if I mysteriously disappear after this,

1:27:28 Speaker 2: then you know it was remember that freaking stroke and genius, Bob.

1:27:31 Speaker 2: I gotta give you a thumbs up on that one,

1:27:33 Speaker 2: because I guess they're like, oh well, I guess we'll

1:27:36 Speaker 2: just leave it. That must have been you know, that

1:27:38 Speaker 2: that was a stroke of genius to save his life.

1:27:40 Speaker 2: But you know, I think he said that it was

1:27:45 Speaker 2: believed to be retrieved from from a crash site. Yeah,

1:27:52 Speaker 2: you know what Bob said, I remember now I can't

1:27:57 Speaker 2: remember if he said it was retrieved from from a

1:27:59 Speaker 2: crash site. Other accounts talk about similar technology and reverse

1:28:05 Speaker 2: engineering based on crash retrivials, But Bob did say that

1:28:09 Speaker 2: he saw another document. You probably know what I'm going

1:28:12 Speaker 2: to start talking about, with beings from the Binary Star

1:28:16 Speaker 2: Systems later articulate and there was supposedly working with with

1:28:21 Speaker 2: the US government on understanding this technology, and so some

1:28:25 Speaker 2: of that technology that was being reverse engineered and studied

1:28:31 Speaker 2: was was provided by by those beings. Yeah, okay, sor right, okay.

1:28:50 Speaker 2: You know, there's there's so much there's so much stuff here,

1:28:54 Speaker 2: like sometimes it becomes a little of a blur to

1:28:56 Speaker 2: remember who said what or there's like so much Yeah,

1:29:01 Speaker 2: oh I love it too. It's like like in the

1:29:02 Speaker 2: nowadays too, trying to trying to keep up with all

1:29:05 Speaker 2: that stuff. It's you know, that's what happened. The battery went, Yeah,

1:29:17 Speaker 2: I'm buying uh tomorrow the other one.

1:29:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, do you think do you think that there's

1:29:38 Speaker 4: a possibility that humans are in contact with a non

1:29:43 Speaker 4: human like like some sort.

1:29:45 Speaker 1: Of deep state or whatever, and are we in contact

1:29:50 Speaker 1: with an nh I and potentially have made an agreement.

1:29:55 Speaker 1: Do you think there's any possibility that that's true.

1:29:59 Speaker 2: I think it's and the thing, the thing, that thing

1:30:06 Speaker 2: that could drive anybody uh crazy about trying to trying

1:30:10 Speaker 2: to decide one way or another is you know the

1:30:13 Speaker 2: experiencers or the witnesses, and and you know, there are

1:30:17 Speaker 2: great number of them have have come out and stated

1:30:20 Speaker 2: that that were absolutely in collaboration with them. You know,

1:30:25 Speaker 2: some of the really big names out there have stated that.

1:30:29 Speaker 1: You know, Eisenhower's like niece Laura Eisenhower, she swears that

1:30:36 Speaker 1: were in agreement, made an agreement with non human intelligence.

1:30:39 Speaker 1: That Eisenhower was the one who made the agreement with them,

1:30:43 Speaker 1: and that's why he warned us about the military industrial complex.

1:30:47 Speaker 1: Was like a way to like try to warn people

1:30:49 Speaker 1: about the whole thing. Right, So, I mean, but then

1:30:54 Speaker 1: there's and and you kind of like totally want to

1:30:58 Speaker 1: discount it, but then high issued.

1:31:02 Speaker 2: Head in the hole, like like an Ostrich or something.

1:31:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, and pretend it's not real. Yeah right right right?

1:31:09 Speaker 1: Uh but but then but you know, you think it's

1:31:14 Speaker 1: all totally nuts and bananas and just because you're an

1:31:17 Speaker 1: eyes andhow doesn't make you an authority on anything, right,

1:31:21 Speaker 1: Like people have crazy people in their family all the time,

1:31:24 Speaker 1: Like it happens when they try to capitalize on people.

1:31:27 Speaker 1: It happens all the time. But then guys like high Meshed,

1:31:32 Speaker 1: who was like the equivalent of the Chief of NASA

1:31:38 Speaker 1: but for the Israeli Space Defense, he comes out and

1:31:42 Speaker 1: says that there's the Galactic Federation and that Trump knows

1:31:46 Speaker 1: about it and that we're working with them, so that

1:31:49 Speaker 1: like that guy is the equivalent of the the Chief

1:31:51 Speaker 1: of NASA or Israel on his deathbed, he says there's

1:31:55 Speaker 1: a galactic Federation. So then you're like, wait, what, like

1:32:00 Speaker 1: cause you got this high ranking individual And then Grush

1:32:02 Speaker 1: comes out and he says when asked about if there

1:32:05 Speaker 1: was any agreements, he said, it is possible. And so

1:32:09 Speaker 1: what do you think about the things Grushed and about

1:32:12 Speaker 1: all these highly highly placed individuals saying that we that

1:32:20 Speaker 1: there is a non human intelligence on this earth and

1:32:24 Speaker 1: actively engaging with us. Is that a little too far

1:32:29 Speaker 1: out there?

1:32:30 Speaker 2: Well, no, no, no, no, it's not far out there

1:32:32 Speaker 2: at all. I mean, I mean, I you know, I

1:32:35 Speaker 2: think it's I think it's likely. You know, I hate

1:32:38 Speaker 2: to say, I hate to say fifty to fifty, But

1:32:40 Speaker 2: do you remember the astronauts story Muskgrave? No, yeah, tell

1:32:46 Speaker 2: me very very well known and highly respected Space Shuttle

1:32:52 Speaker 2: astronaut when our Space Shuttle program was active.

1:32:57 Speaker 1: Interesting, I just I have a and who's the chief

1:33:01 Speaker 1: of Aerospace Medicine for NASA who has shown a video

1:33:06 Speaker 1: of a sport model flying saucer, chief aerospace chief of

1:33:11 Speaker 1: Aerospace Medicine for NASA and the chief chief light surgeon.

1:33:20 Speaker 1: So it's a whole different thing.

1:33:23 Speaker 2: But continue, Yeah, yeah, I mean so so it goes

1:33:27 Speaker 2: to show you that these these things and and NASA

1:33:30 Speaker 2: are are discussed and and it's it is bizarre how

1:33:34 Speaker 2: there's there's a lot of well, let's just say there's

1:33:38 Speaker 2: a lot of disunity in a uh, in a community.

1:33:42 Speaker 2: You know. I'm definitely not one that was If something

1:33:45 Speaker 2: was an obvious hoax and it was well documented, I

1:33:48 Speaker 2: would say, well, based on evidence and based on you know,

1:33:51 Speaker 2: cite different sources, this was a hoax or other otherwise,

1:33:54 Speaker 2: you know, it's you know, nobody's nobody's got the right

1:33:59 Speaker 2: to say, well someone someone's a liar, because well, if

1:34:02 Speaker 2: something's been proven, that's that's a different story. And we

1:34:04 Speaker 2: do have cases like that when we come comes to uh,

1:34:08 Speaker 2: you know, witnesses in NASA or or astronauts in NASA

1:34:13 Speaker 2: and so forth, I I'd say they're highly credible. You know,

1:34:17 Speaker 2: all sorts of medically uned psychological tests that they have

1:34:21 Speaker 2: to go through. And generally speaking, I would not suspect

1:34:26 Speaker 2: NASA astronauts to be any kind of psychological operations or

1:34:30 Speaker 2: disinformation people at all. I wouldn't suspect that. So I

1:34:33 Speaker 2: would say based on on that, I would say that's

1:34:37 Speaker 2: it's highly credible. I did follow this, uh a lot

1:34:42 Speaker 2: of documentation and and reports by this story, Musgrave.

1:34:47 Speaker 1: And so what is that?

1:34:50 Speaker 2: So that this used to be when the Boston Globe

1:34:52 Speaker 2: used to be really big in the newspaper. Yeah, okay,

1:34:57 Speaker 2: he was in there a lot, and now you know,

1:35:00 Speaker 2: just Boston dot com. And I'm sure that Boston Globe

1:35:03 Speaker 2: is still good. But you know, I don't look at

1:35:05 Speaker 2: printed newspapers out much. One time I did, it's another story.

1:35:08 Speaker 2: But everything was actually online and stuff I was looking

1:35:12 Speaker 2: for wasn't even in a printed that's that was a

1:35:13 Speaker 2: different paper, not not Boston anyway. So the short of

1:35:17 Speaker 2: it is he was talking for decades about craft and

1:35:24 Speaker 2: beings like I think, I want to say plasmoid, so

1:35:27 Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent or plasmas and craft that

1:35:31 Speaker 2: he had observed outside of of Earth in other words,

1:35:35 Speaker 2: in orbit during his missions. And he's not the only astronaut.

1:35:40 Speaker 1: He's far from the only astronaut. Edgar Mitchell, well edgar

1:35:43 Speaker 1: Mitchell had like a life changing experience. But like I mean,

1:35:49 Speaker 1: if you even look at Lance Armstrong, not Lance, oh

1:35:53 Speaker 1: my god, Neil Armstrong and Buzz different Armstrong. But if

1:36:00 Speaker 1: you buzz Aldrin Buzz. But if you watch their the

1:36:08 Speaker 1: interview when they came home, it looks like a hostage video.

1:36:14 Speaker 1: They they don't know what to say. It doesn't look

1:36:17 Speaker 1: like the heroes that just came home. They're like they're defeated,

1:36:24 Speaker 1: like they saw a ghost. You've never ever seen it.

1:36:28 Speaker 1: The interview from when they first came back.

1:36:31 Speaker 2: Watched these guys, I've heard these guys are supposed to

1:36:35 Speaker 2: be I've heard other things like their hair and they're.

1:36:37 Speaker 1: On Santa referencing Santa Claus and so and yeah.

1:36:41 Speaker 2: And and talking about you know, I've heard.

1:36:44 Speaker 1: My contact at NASA said that they were seeing things,

1:36:49 Speaker 1: they were being observed and they came across things on

1:36:54 Speaker 1: the moon that and and what's your take on that.

1:36:59 Speaker 1: It's hard to doubt that.

1:37:02 Speaker 2: I hate to say, because like, until you until you

1:37:06 Speaker 2: see stuff, right, like until you privy to that information,

1:37:10 Speaker 2: it's kind of like you hate to be like a

1:37:12 Speaker 2: yes man, you know it was I want to believe it, right,

1:37:15 Speaker 2: and I so much love to believe it. But so

1:37:17 Speaker 2: that that's that's one of the good things about uh

1:37:21 Speaker 2: being a move on field investigator. You could be a

1:37:26 Speaker 2: UFO U a P advocate because you just dig this stuff.

1:37:29 Speaker 2: You love it. But you you look at the facts

1:37:32 Speaker 2: and so something like this, right, if you had witness

1:37:35 Speaker 2: testimony by by.

1:37:37 Speaker 1: Astronauts, it's a highly credible witness.

1:37:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, the end report. If if you had, if you had,

1:37:45 Speaker 2: if you had let's say, video clips and audio clips,

1:37:48 Speaker 2: and it was like all it was all like, wow,

1:37:51 Speaker 2: it certainly looks like an alien. You'd you'd get it

1:37:54 Speaker 2: to the point or you know, non human you'd get

1:37:57 Speaker 2: it to the point of, you know, depending on the

1:38:01 Speaker 2: right people, because events something like that would go up

1:38:03 Speaker 2: the chain within move On, you know, worldwide, but you

1:38:06 Speaker 2: would get it to the point of either you know

1:38:10 Speaker 2: unknown or well, I mean, you know, it could go

1:38:13 Speaker 2: you know, hoax. But like something like this, let's say

1:38:15 Speaker 2: it looked legit, it would be the point of either

1:38:18 Speaker 2: unknown in the cases is open or it can be

1:38:23 Speaker 2: reopened at any time, or it could be something like inconclusive.

1:38:29 Speaker 2: But if it gets to the point where, like the

1:38:32 Speaker 2: field investigator actually sees something with let's say lab results

1:38:39 Speaker 2: or something where the move On field investigator or the

1:38:44 Speaker 2: overarching move On folks had said, Okay, yeah, we've we've

1:38:49 Speaker 2: verified something. I think I think that'll be a breakthrough,

1:38:53 Speaker 2: and I they're supposed to have something at the upcoming

1:38:55 Speaker 2: conference in July.

1:38:57 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's it's kind of weird when you think

1:38:59 Speaker 1: about it, because like, the best cases at mouf On

1:39:03 Speaker 1: or any one are the ones that you end up

1:39:07 Speaker 1: not having an answer for. So it's kind of redundant, right,

1:39:12 Speaker 1: is right? The best ones are the unknowns, but the

1:39:15 Speaker 1: ones you can explain are the ones we throw away.

1:39:17 Speaker 1: So it's like.

1:39:19 Speaker 2: And by the way. Yeah, so so Tim Phillips did mention.

1:39:25 Speaker 1: So you've been in touch with Tim Phillips, the former

1:39:29 Speaker 1: deputy director of Arrow. So he said some things. He

1:39:37 Speaker 1: said some things. So what do you take of this,

1:39:42 Speaker 1: because I don't. I don't buy it for one fucking second.

1:39:46 Speaker 2: I mean, he touches on a lot of things.

1:39:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. Not so this idea that the Washington Street the

1:39:54 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal ran with that it's all just a

1:39:57 Speaker 1: giant hazing program by the Air Force. So that one

1:40:00 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about, Right, that's a bunch

1:40:02 Speaker 1: of bullshit, man.

1:40:03 Speaker 2: So I read that article completely. Yeah, that's the one

1:40:06 Speaker 2: I was talking about. And I'm not trying to disparage

1:40:08 Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal at all.

1:40:10 Speaker 1: I am.

1:40:10 Speaker 2: I got to tell you. So I graduated classes. I

1:40:13 Speaker 2: am eighty nine from from PbD mass Uh High and

1:40:19 Speaker 2: back then the Wall Street Journal was amazing and it

1:40:22 Speaker 2: was thick and all that stuff. So now I make

1:40:25 Speaker 2: my way revered. I'm like, what do I doing. I

1:40:28 Speaker 2: can't get my hands on. Maybe someone knows. I'm like,

1:40:31 Speaker 2: of course, go to the line, like when's the last

1:40:33 Speaker 2: time that so many people have gone to the library.

1:40:35 Speaker 2: Except if you're an investigative reporter.

1:40:37 Speaker 1: I will say, I've been to the library very recently.

1:40:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, because noe like someone like you. Yeah, but like

1:40:43 Speaker 2: for the average person, well, you know, if you can't

1:40:45 Speaker 2: find on Google, if there's a charge. So I went

1:40:47 Speaker 2: to my library. I look in that issue of Wall

1:40:51 Speaker 2: Street Journal. Not there. I looked in the day after

1:40:55 Speaker 2: that wasn't in there. I'm like, what the heck. So

1:40:58 Speaker 2: I go to the librarian and I'm you know, a

1:41:00 Speaker 2: new member and stuff, and oh, yeah, sir, yeah, well

1:41:03 Speaker 2: most of the Wall Street Journal is online nowadays. And

1:41:06 Speaker 2: since you remember, we do provide that to our to

1:41:08 Speaker 2: our library members. So it's great. So sure enough, you know,

1:41:11 Speaker 2: so the so he read it? Yeah, and I so

1:41:14 Speaker 2: I read it, you know, library remember or whatever is

1:41:16 Speaker 2: I read that complete article. And you know, I you know,

1:41:21 Speaker 2: Tim Phillips had been asked in reference to that article,

1:41:25 Speaker 2: and it was certainly knowledgeable of it. But I don't

1:41:29 Speaker 2: know whether or not he was the sole source of

1:41:31 Speaker 2: that because no, no, no, no, it had Kirkpatrick. But I'm

1:41:36 Speaker 2: sure he was. You must have been involved because everybody

1:41:38 Speaker 2: was asking him questions about it.

1:41:40 Speaker 1: He was involved, Yeah, he was involved to a degree,

1:41:43 Speaker 1: because I think they I think they quoted him once

1:41:45 Speaker 1: or something. But it had doctor Kirkpatrick written all over it, okay,

1:41:51 Speaker 1: and Susan Goff like it had it had their fingerprints

1:41:55 Speaker 1: all over it.

1:41:56 Speaker 2: Okay.

1:41:57 Speaker 1: That's that was one hundred percent the source. And I

1:42:00 Speaker 1: I was there at contacting the desert when that guy,

1:42:04 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal guy was getting quotes from like,

1:42:07 Speaker 1: uh other people that that were there. And apparently it

1:42:13 Speaker 1: was advertised as like they weren't it was they weren't

1:42:16 Speaker 1: going to be doing like a hit piece. It was

1:42:18 Speaker 1: gonna be this like revelatory article. And then it came

1:42:21 Speaker 1: out as like, oh, all of it can be explained

1:42:25 Speaker 1: by a hazing ritual that the Air Force ran against

1:42:28 Speaker 1: people in.

1:42:32 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:42:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like some hazing ritual by the Air

1:42:35 Speaker 1: Force to new recruits in black programs like it just

1:42:40 Speaker 1: it made that could that could explain a little bit,

1:42:43 Speaker 1: maybe a couple percent, it could. But to say that's

1:42:47 Speaker 1: a blanket statement for everything being bullshit, that that insults

1:42:51 Speaker 1: people's intelligence. It's people like me who have seen things.

1:42:55 Speaker 1: So when the Wall Street Journal does that, you start

1:42:57 Speaker 1: asking to yourself, this is why the main stream media.

1:43:00 Speaker 2: Is falling apart.

1:43:02 Speaker 1: This is why no one takes them seriously anymore because

1:43:06 Speaker 1: it's all this like bullshit, got youa take you out

1:43:10 Speaker 1: of context journalism and that it's it's it's sad, it

1:43:14 Speaker 1: really is. But that's how like the mainstream science community is.

1:43:18 Speaker 1: That's the mainstream archaeology, mainstream astronomy, like it's it's there's

1:43:23 Speaker 1: the it's like these clubs, like we love to put

1:43:26 Speaker 1: ourselves in these clubs and like, oh, I have the

1:43:29 Speaker 1: information and uh, you know if anything that doesn't go

1:43:33 Speaker 1: with the narrative like you're a pseudo scientist, Yeah, yeah,

1:43:38 Speaker 1: I'm with you there, Grand Hancock.

1:43:40 Speaker 2: Which is which goes back to my thing about you know,

1:43:43 Speaker 2: you know, you said, well, what's it like to uh

1:43:46 Speaker 2: be in mainstream uh science, technology on Jerry math Stone

1:43:50 Speaker 2: and to say, okay, well I'm with move on now.

1:43:52 Speaker 2: And the answer is, you know, half of my colleagues,

1:43:55 Speaker 2: especially the ones that know me quite well, like, oh

1:43:58 Speaker 2: that's cool, what's interesting. And I'm like, all I'm saying

1:44:01 Speaker 2: is there's something to it. And by the way, in

1:44:04 Speaker 2: the other half, you know, they give you funny looks,

1:44:05 Speaker 2: which is whatever. But I get to tell you something,

1:44:08 Speaker 2: there is something to it because and you know this

1:44:11 Speaker 2: you know this is this is going to be rhetorical.

1:44:13 Speaker 2: But you know about the Drawing incursion, there was something

1:44:16 Speaker 2: to it, wasn't there. Right, turned out to be a

1:44:19 Speaker 2: good amount of them were freaking communist Chinese Party spy drones.

1:44:24 Speaker 2: Yeah right, And and I was when I attended Lose

1:44:30 Speaker 2: symposium in March, and I think it was March fifteen.

1:44:34 Speaker 2: But anyway, in Boston, he always adds dynamic new events

1:44:40 Speaker 2: or affairs in his presentations, and no one was about

1:44:44 Speaker 2: the drones. And he's so, you know, he was he

1:44:46 Speaker 2: was being facetious. He's like, so, nope, nothing to see here, folks,

1:44:49 Speaker 2: We're moving on. And he's like, you are being lied to. Now.

1:44:54 Speaker 2: He was correct, although I think the purpose was at

1:44:57 Speaker 2: the time, I think the purpose was don't let uh

1:45:00 Speaker 2: enemy or adversary know that we're onto them. You know,

1:45:04 Speaker 2: we'll we'll tell people at the right time that.

1:45:05 Speaker 1: The yeah, the old you can't tell your friends without

1:45:10 Speaker 1: telling your enemies, right. But Ross Coulthard actually just came

1:45:15 Speaker 1: out and when he said the same when he said

1:45:18 Speaker 1: the thing about the tic Tac being owned by owned

1:45:21 Speaker 1: and operated by Lockheed and all those craft all the

1:45:25 Speaker 1: tic TAC shape craft being a Lockheed thing. He also

1:45:29 Speaker 1: said that his sources, he was almost certain that the

1:45:34 Speaker 1: New Jersey drone situation was a show of power from

1:45:38 Speaker 1: the Chinese government, that they could put drones up, like

1:45:42 Speaker 1: highly advanced drones up over our our our our most

1:45:48 Speaker 1: sensitive facilities, and that there was nothing we could do

1:45:51 Speaker 1: about it. And some weird stuff happened, maybe some maybe

1:45:56 Speaker 1: some UAPs were seen, but most of it was Chinese

1:45:59 Speaker 1: drones and then our own military drones being put up

1:46:03 Speaker 1: as counter intel measures. But like the Chinese ones were

1:46:06 Speaker 1: like they were super advanced.

1:46:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you research drones. He didn't say what kind

1:46:12 Speaker 2: of research did he right?

1:46:15 Speaker 1: Right, But usually they're quick to label like, oh, it's

1:46:18 Speaker 1: a Chinese Fi balloon, right, because they want people to

1:46:21 Speaker 1: know that China is spying on us. But what they

1:46:23 Speaker 1: don't want people to know is that China is spying

1:46:27 Speaker 1: on us, but with highly advanced drones, drones that we

1:46:32 Speaker 1: can't understand how they work.

1:46:34 Speaker 2: Right, And it's against their it's not against the people,

1:46:40 Speaker 2: it's against them.

1:46:41 Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah.

1:46:43 Speaker 2: But my comment on that is the best that Communist

1:46:47 Speaker 2: Party is good at is stealing technology. That's the greatest.

1:46:54 Speaker 2: They didn't they didn't create it. They stole from.

1:46:57 Speaker 1: And and you know what's funny, We're in Massachusetts where

1:47:02 Speaker 1: most of the Chinese spies come because they get educated

1:47:07 Speaker 1: at Harvard m i T. They get educated in our

1:47:09 Speaker 1: best places because the CCP pays them, pays their way

1:47:15 Speaker 1: into these school visa and they get school of visas

1:47:18 Speaker 1: and they go learn at Harvard, m i T. All

1:47:21 Speaker 1: the best schools, and then they bring the knowledge back

1:47:23 Speaker 1: to the CCP. And and it's it's we just let

1:47:26 Speaker 1: them do it. We do it. And it's crazy to me.

1:47:32 Speaker 1: And and I'm not trying to be like racist or anything.

1:47:34 Speaker 1: You go into Boston, go to Boston, go to any

1:47:41 Speaker 1: city that has a prestigious school, and there's going to

1:47:46 Speaker 1: be a large Chinese population. It's it's that's the way

1:47:50 Speaker 1: it is. But so so you're a move on field investigator,

1:47:55 Speaker 1: and I wanted to touch on this earlier, but I

1:47:56 Speaker 1: got off track. Tell me about it, what me about

1:48:00 Speaker 1: as we round out, Tell me about a case that

1:48:04 Speaker 1: stuck with you, something that maybe you you you didn't resolve,

1:48:09 Speaker 1: And tell me about the best case you've investigated.

1:48:13 Speaker 2: The best case, because we live in a.

1:48:15 Speaker 1: Pretty pretty amazing area, not we're not. It's not we're

1:48:19 Speaker 1: not southern California from you know, but we're we're very historied,

1:48:23 Speaker 1: storied area without naming names.

1:48:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, without without freaking any Yeah. Well, it's it's always

1:48:33 Speaker 2: nice when you can, when you can solve the case,

1:48:38 Speaker 2: and and you had a full explanation and and you

1:48:43 Speaker 2: you have an understanding of of of what was up

1:48:47 Speaker 2: and so far and so forth.

1:48:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, but people don't want that.

1:48:53 Speaker 2: I'll quote a Ross Coulthard and I'll say, you know,

1:48:57 Speaker 2: when this testimonials and these you as and UFOs, a

1:49:02 Speaker 2: lot of skeptics will say, well, that's no good. You

1:49:04 Speaker 2: need evidence, and and Ross's one of Ross's episodes he said, well,

1:49:09 Speaker 2: entire court cases are based on people's.

1:49:13 Speaker 1: Test beyond a reasonable doubt.

1:49:15 Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, so witnesses. Witnesses are evidence and contain evidence.

1:49:21 Speaker 1: And you know what's crazy to me is the same

1:49:25 Speaker 1: people who say ghosts and like UFOs aren't real, ask

1:49:31 Speaker 1: them what consciousness is and they like, and you're like,

1:49:36 Speaker 1: all right, get away from me, get away from me.

1:49:39 Speaker 1: You don't know ship, so get away from me, right,

1:49:46 Speaker 1: And and it pisses me off because that, you know,

1:49:51 Speaker 1: like it's it's the same people who believe in God,

1:49:55 Speaker 1: in Jesus and how we walked on water healed people.

1:49:59 Speaker 1: They'll tell you don't exist. You're like, what are you

1:50:02 Speaker 1: out of your mind? Like you, you're so steadfast in

1:50:06 Speaker 1: your religion and belief in like this higher power you've

1:50:09 Speaker 1: never met, you've.

1:50:09 Speaker 2: Never seen around they have said, have said, have said

1:50:16 Speaker 2: that we're to we would be too selfish for now.

1:50:20 Speaker 1: Yes, but in what is an angel? But by definition

1:50:24 Speaker 1: a non human intelligence. By definition, an angel or a

1:50:29 Speaker 1: demon is a non human intelligence. So like, the thing

1:50:35 Speaker 1: is that we shouldn't be battling each other. We should

1:50:37 Speaker 1: be like and we should be embracing each other and

1:50:40 Speaker 1: embracing the the the because here's the here's the problem.

1:50:45 Speaker 1: Science tends to throw out religion. They throw the baby

1:50:48 Speaker 1: out with the bathwater, right, But religion does the same thing.

1:50:52 Speaker 1: They throw the baby out with the bathwater. When it

1:50:54 Speaker 1: comes to like anything that science tries to disprove with religion,

1:50:59 Speaker 1: they just say, no, it's it's because And then they're

1:51:02 Speaker 1: saying the same thing. Right. Most of the time, science

1:51:05 Speaker 1: and religion are saying the same thing. The Big Bang

1:51:10 Speaker 1: and God said let there be light, Well, sounds like

1:51:14 Speaker 1: the same thing to me, just in two different contexts. Right,

1:51:20 Speaker 1: God said, let there be light. Out of nothing came everything.

1:51:24 Speaker 1: The big bang boom out of nothing came everything. It's

1:51:28 Speaker 1: the same thing. So like we need to we need

1:51:32 Speaker 1: to work together, and and instead we we like to

1:51:36 Speaker 1: divide ourselves. It's the story of the tower Babbel. But

1:51:39 Speaker 1: so tell me about a case that you've investigated that

1:51:42 Speaker 1: that or just walk me through what it's like to

1:51:45 Speaker 1: investigate a case. I'll tell you one of the most

1:51:48 Speaker 1: then we can wrap up.

1:51:50 Speaker 2: Okay, one of the most fascinating ones was actually an

1:51:55 Speaker 2: URB encounter, and that that witness was extremely helpful and

1:52:02 Speaker 2: an extremely interactive and and they showed me the entire

1:52:09 Speaker 2: sight of where it occurred and pointed out different uh

1:52:14 Speaker 2: different objects and different different lights that had that had

1:52:20 Speaker 2: lit up when when this ORB was in the area.

1:52:25 Speaker 2: Extremely incredible witness.

1:52:28 Speaker 1: So the ORB showed up and then lights were turning on.

1:52:33 Speaker 2: There was one light in particular like street lights or

1:52:37 Speaker 2: just a backyard.

1:52:39 Speaker 1: But like lights lights, not like lights in the sky,

1:52:44 Speaker 1: like like human lights were flickering on.

1:52:49 Speaker 2: Let's say, like a garden light type of thing.

1:52:52 Speaker 1: Okay, so the ORB gets seen and yeah.

1:52:55 Speaker 2: And then the other thing too, is there was a

1:52:58 Speaker 2: a feeling of which is touched on a lot in uphology,

1:53:03 Speaker 2: which is a feeling of awareness, and it's also touched on,

1:53:07 Speaker 2: you know, mental telepathy.

1:53:11 Speaker 1: And no way.

1:53:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, when you meditate, depending on which

1:53:18 Speaker 2: type of meditation I've experienced myself to most people have,

1:53:21 Speaker 2: depending on how you meditate, you can actually feel an

1:53:23 Speaker 2: energy flow through your body.

1:53:24 Speaker 1: And yeah, I felt that on DMO, so that I

1:53:29 Speaker 1: felt that in d M T too.

1:53:30 Speaker 2: Okay, So, so there was a feeling a sense of

1:53:37 Speaker 2: energy and sense of calmness and and what that's good.

1:53:43 Speaker 2: You hit that one on a on a on ahead

1:53:45 Speaker 2: of the nail, and also a feeling of of some

1:53:50 Speaker 2: sort of mental telepathy. And what I liked, what I

1:53:54 Speaker 2: enjoyed the most about this case is you know, all

1:53:56 Speaker 2: all experiences and witnesses have always been helpful and cooperate

1:54:01 Speaker 2: because they want to resolve it. That's you know what

1:54:03 Speaker 2: they're they're alling over like Jesu, I really and as

1:54:08 Speaker 2: a field investigator, you're not supposed to become personally attached

1:54:14 Speaker 2: to the witness because otherwise you're not going to do

1:54:15 Speaker 2: good jobs. I kept a very open mind, but I could,

1:54:18 Speaker 2: I could really empathize with with this person that that

1:54:22 Speaker 2: that file the report because it was really bugging them

1:54:26 Speaker 2: and they needed closure on it to know, you know,

1:54:29 Speaker 2: what the heck was going. And it wasn't it wasn't

1:54:31 Speaker 2: a harmful or it was more like just the orb

1:54:34 Speaker 2: was there type of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so

1:54:37 Speaker 2: the you know, the individual was just maulling over trying

1:54:40 Speaker 2: to trying to absorb it and and understand it better.

1:54:43 Speaker 2: And it was it was a very very moving case,

1:54:47 Speaker 2: and it was a very enthralling case because I was

1:54:49 Speaker 2: provided with maps, diagrams, pictures, videos. Now the video was

1:54:56 Speaker 2: like after after the fact that showed me you know,

1:54:58 Speaker 2: this took place here. I was given distances, so I

1:55:01 Speaker 2: was able to perform all sorts of astronomical and aeronautical

1:55:06 Speaker 2: calculations to see what could have been a plane with

1:55:08 Speaker 2: a light, could have been headlights anything.

1:55:11 Speaker 1: Did you find anything that it could.

1:55:12 Speaker 2: Have been as an alternative?

1:55:16 Speaker 1: No, So so what he saw was genuine what it

1:55:22 Speaker 1: was something out of the ordinary, Oh.

1:55:24 Speaker 2: Totally totally interesting, highly credible witness and you know, and

1:55:30 Speaker 2: so you know, so something like that, it's it's closed.

1:55:33 Speaker 2: But the nice thing about a moof on case is

1:55:36 Speaker 2: as information is provided, whether it's by the witness or

1:55:39 Speaker 2: someone else, the case could be reopened at anything.

1:55:42 Speaker 1: Right because you know, in connection to or you know, So,

1:55:47 Speaker 1: what did the witness if this, if it's okay to share,

1:55:50 Speaker 1: did the witness say that they got because maybe they

1:55:54 Speaker 1: if there was a telepathic connection, did they receive any information?

1:56:04 Speaker 2: Believe, I believe. I believe it was more like a

1:56:07 Speaker 2: sense of calmness and and a sense of it's okay

1:56:14 Speaker 2: to be calm, there's nothing to worry about, you.

1:56:18 Speaker 1: Know, I've heard I've heard similar and I'm.

1:56:21 Speaker 2: Very vague in general, just to protect their their privacy,

1:56:24 Speaker 2: but but that, for sure, I could, I could tell

1:56:27 Speaker 2: you was one of the insurance that assurances that the

1:56:30 Speaker 2: witness got, which is always a good thing because the

1:56:32 Speaker 2: last thing you want is to get freaked out by anything.

1:56:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I understand.

1:56:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's not even if you're used to

1:56:38 Speaker 2: these things, you know, you know it's you know.

1:56:43 Speaker 1: You don't want to broad some people don't want to

1:56:45 Speaker 1: broadcast right that that it was them, but they want

1:56:48 Speaker 1: to report it.

1:56:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, And in the sense of you know, the person

1:56:51 Speaker 2: experiencing it, you know, to have to have some reassurance

1:56:55 Speaker 2: that there was no harm intended or whatever. Is is

1:56:58 Speaker 2: a good thing because you know, someone who you know

1:57:01 Speaker 2: goes through an experience. And I've I've had my own experience,

1:57:04 Speaker 2: but not not like that. But I have had experiences

1:57:08 Speaker 2: to know that it was not a harmful thing. It

1:57:11 Speaker 2: was either let's say, a natural thing or even a

1:57:15 Speaker 2: good thing. Sometimes is nice. It doesn't always have to

1:57:19 Speaker 2: be a negative, you know, creep you out type of experience.

1:57:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's more people need to know.

1:57:25 Speaker 1: That is more often than not, these encounters, they're not negative.

1:57:31 Speaker 1: I would say more often than not, they're pretty positive.

1:57:34 Speaker 1: And they change people's lives and perspectives and it almost

1:57:38 Speaker 1: like it almost seems like the event is tailored for them.

1:57:42 Speaker 1: Have you ever got that feeling?

1:57:44 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I've had it.

1:57:45 Speaker 1: Because I've when I saw what I saw both times,

1:57:49 Speaker 1: I thought, I it's almost like I knew that it

1:57:51 Speaker 1: was for me and for me only to see.

1:57:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a reason for that.

1:57:55 Speaker 1: And yeah, and I think it sets you on a

1:57:58 Speaker 1: certain path and we all find ourselves here, you know,

1:58:03 Speaker 1: because your path laid you to that seat right now,

1:58:07 Speaker 1: My path laid me to this seat right now, all

1:58:10 Speaker 1: because of a signing when I was eleven, right, And

1:58:13 Speaker 1: I find that to be crazy. Is Massachusetts? How many

1:58:20 Speaker 1: reports do you take a year?

1:58:22 Speaker 2: You think I'd have to go back and look, but

1:58:24 Speaker 2: I can roughly, well, I guess we could if we

1:58:27 Speaker 2: did an estimate. Let's see, I got three, let's see

1:58:33 Speaker 2: three six seven times. See, each investigator gets probably maybe

1:58:48 Speaker 2: approximately thirty cases per year. Approximately, pretty I just did

1:58:55 Speaker 2: a quick quick average.

1:58:56 Speaker 1: It's pretty high though. Yeah, so it's an active area. Yeah, yeah,

1:59:01 Speaker 1: I think I know so because I've seen. I mean,

1:59:04 Speaker 1: and there's so much you know, you got to think

1:59:08 Speaker 1: those are the cases that are reported. There's so many

1:59:12 Speaker 1: more that go unreported, that's right. I'd say, you know,

1:59:15 Speaker 1: one hundred percent, maybe a thousand percent more don't don't

1:59:19 Speaker 1: get reported.

1:59:21 Speaker 2: And that's yeah, for all sorts of reasons.

1:59:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, people don't know where to. Most people don't know

1:59:27 Speaker 1: what move on is. That's the general person.

1:59:29 Speaker 2: I got to tell you before, before I joined, I

1:59:32 Speaker 2: didn't know what it is. And I was like, I'm

1:59:34 Speaker 2: watching all these youtubes yeah, and interviews, and.

1:59:38 Speaker 1: Then you see references and then you come up.

1:59:41 Speaker 2: Well, what happened was I was like, geez, but I

1:59:43 Speaker 2: want to do more I and so I started email

1:59:45 Speaker 2: people how do I get involved? And I was like, yeah,

1:59:48 Speaker 2: I don't even heard of Buffon, but not really. So

1:59:50 Speaker 2: I just did a Google and I go, I go

1:59:54 Speaker 2: UFO UAP Advocate and Participation Club or something, and then

2:00:00 Speaker 2: like of all the group, you know, move I'm like, oh,

2:00:02 Speaker 2: I heard of that. And I looked at him like,

2:00:04 Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. A lot of people

2:00:07 Speaker 2: don't know about it.

2:00:09 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's it's sad because I think that I think

2:00:13 Speaker 1: that move on's doing itself a disservice. And I know

2:00:16 Speaker 1: you can't speak on this, but move On's doing itself

2:00:20 Speaker 1: a disservice by not having more of a social media

2:00:25 Speaker 1: presence in the sense of like getting to TikTok, you know,

2:00:29 Speaker 1: and adapting for the times and having more of a presence.

2:00:33 Speaker 1: One of my mentors was Earl Gray Anderson, and he

2:00:36 Speaker 1: just passed away. You know, he was the head of

2:00:40 Speaker 1: South South Southern California move On and he was one

2:00:44 Speaker 1: of my best friends in this field. And you know,

2:00:51 Speaker 1: he gave everything to move.

2:00:53 Speaker 2: On, and uh yeah, a lot of people.

2:00:56 Speaker 1: He gave everything to move On too. Much too much.

2:01:00 Speaker 1: But I think we need to realize that that move on.

2:01:06 Speaker 1: They need to adapt at the times and they need

2:01:09 Speaker 1: to get get on TikTok show people that you know,

2:01:13 Speaker 1: when you see these things, guys, take twenty set twenty

2:01:16 Speaker 1: minutes and report it to move on. Have them just

2:01:19 Speaker 1: even for database database purposes, they need to be make

2:01:24 Speaker 1: it more aware because you know, it's not the world

2:01:29 Speaker 1: isn't the way it used to be, right, It's not,

2:01:33 Speaker 1: and you need to adapt as the times, and you

2:01:36 Speaker 1: need to to have more of a social media presence

2:01:41 Speaker 1: to garner attention in the world that we live in.

2:01:44 Speaker 1: And move on is in my opinion, not doing enough.

2:01:48 Speaker 2: And is when you I mean you have to do

2:01:54 Speaker 2: a bang search or whatever for ban or whatever whatever

2:02:00 Speaker 2: you got there? Yeah Google, Well, I mean besides Google,

2:02:04 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think about whatever Duc dut go, duc

2:02:06 Speaker 2: dout Yeah yeah, yeah, just.

2:02:08 Speaker 3: Basically I'm trying to give other Firefox.

2:02:11 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So do it do an Internet search for

2:02:14 Speaker 2: move on, report filing or something, and then a couple

2:02:18 Speaker 2: of button clicks later your final report. You can give

2:02:21 Speaker 2: as much information about yourself in the incident as you

2:02:25 Speaker 2: want or as little, or you could give everything and

2:02:27 Speaker 2: leave out your name. They don't care. They just want

2:02:29 Speaker 2: they want the report.

2:02:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

2:02:31 Speaker 2: And so you don't even have to give your name

2:02:33 Speaker 2: or even your first initial. They don't care. They'll let

2:02:36 Speaker 2: you file it.

2:02:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the thing is so so I think

2:02:40 Speaker 1: they just need more awareness and they need to like

2:02:44 Speaker 1: because they still have like the newsletter and stuff like that.

2:02:46 Speaker 1: And it's like that worked in the eighties and nineties

2:02:49 Speaker 1: and maybe even the early odds odds the two thousands,

2:02:54 Speaker 1: but that's not how that's not how it worked anymore.

2:02:58 Speaker 1: Like you need to have a presence online. You need

2:03:00 Speaker 1: to like be advertising in a way, like, hey, if

2:03:04 Speaker 1: you see something odd, come tell us, come report it

2:03:07 Speaker 1: to us. You know, we're not gonna stigmatize you. We're

2:03:10 Speaker 1: not gonna ridicule you. We're not gonna do this. We're

2:03:13 Speaker 1: gonna take it seriously, we're gonna investigate it. I think

2:03:16 Speaker 1: more more than more than they think or or know,

2:03:22 Speaker 1: people would be super receptive to that, and they would

2:03:25 Speaker 1: take to it. And I think the amount of reports

2:03:27 Speaker 1: would triple quadruple if if they showed that they were

2:03:32 Speaker 1: more Yeah, simply by brand recognition alone, Like yeah, the

2:03:38 Speaker 1: older generation knew about move On, right, because that's how

2:03:41 Speaker 1: it was right magazines and then you saw you got

2:03:46 Speaker 1: if you were interested in UFOs, you knew about move On.

2:03:48 Speaker 1: But most people don't. So they need to advertise themselves

2:03:52 Speaker 1: as hey, like you know, work with the police departments,

2:03:57 Speaker 1: work with with UH law enforcement. Make sure that if

2:04:02 Speaker 1: a UFO sighting is seen that the police will refer

2:04:05 Speaker 1: them to move on, right, have that engagement, like because

2:04:09 Speaker 1: the police don't go investigate UFO accounts usually not usually

2:04:14 Speaker 1: not right they So, yeah, and that's I guess what

2:04:18 Speaker 1: I'm saying is exposure. They need to get out there

2:04:21 Speaker 1: and tell people that, hey, you can, you can report

2:04:25 Speaker 1: with us and there's no stigma.

2:04:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, totally and and there isn't. That's that's clearly

2:04:32 Speaker 2: slowly become a thing of the past with the stigma,

2:04:35 Speaker 2: which you know, I would you know, credit the the

2:04:39 Speaker 2: d O D for that, I mean right, you know,

2:04:43 Speaker 2: right on on their website it shows his or stigmatized

2:04:50 Speaker 2: for for either.

2:04:52 Speaker 1: And people don't know that. Guys like David Grush testified

2:04:57 Speaker 1: and said that there's these crash for tribal programs like

2:05:01 Speaker 1: you know, at the same time as the grush hearing

2:05:04 Speaker 1: was the Johnny Depp trial. Can you can you can

2:05:08 Speaker 1: you guess which one got more views?

2:05:10 Speaker 2: I don't know.

2:05:12 Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying is that might be the problem,

2:05:15 Speaker 1: like exposure, and uh no, thank.

2:05:19 Speaker 2: You so much for I appreciate that.

2:05:22 Speaker 1: We'll do it again. We'll do it again. But where

2:05:25 Speaker 1: can people follow you? And how can people get to

2:05:28 Speaker 1: know you?

2:05:28 Speaker 2: Terrific? Thanks? So, yes, we do have social media. On Instagram,

2:05:34 Speaker 2: it's uh m u f l N. That's a move

2:05:37 Speaker 2: on underscore m A. So that's move on Massachusetts chapter

2:05:42 Speaker 2: or if you go onto Facebook, it's moof on Massachusetts.

2:05:48 Speaker 2: And also we've got if you go onto YouTube, it

2:05:54 Speaker 2: is the channel all one word American Road Warrior and

2:05:59 Speaker 2: that's where we have our five mass show called mass Hysteria.

2:06:04 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'll put all those links in the description

2:06:07 Speaker 1: below and then somewhere here will be a QR code

2:06:10 Speaker 1: that you can scan. It will bring you right to

2:06:12 Speaker 1: his YouTube. That mean you can you can stay at much.

2:06:16 Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this, man, I really really appreciate it.

2:06:19 Speaker 1: And uh, everyone out there, uh you know what it is,

2:06:23 Speaker 1: same as usual, hit like, share, subscribe if you're listening

2:06:26 Speaker 1: on Apple or Spotify legal rating and review. It's one

2:06:30 Speaker 1: of the biggest ways about total disclosure