"I WAS TAKEN TO A PLACE WITH NON HUMAN BEINGS" |The Berkshire UFO Encounter (Ft. Thom Reed)

0:10 Speaker 1: The first experience was like orbs in my bedroom. My brother and I were in bunk beds and we saw these little orbs going around our room. That was the first thing I remember. And then I saw this light outside my window that looked like a hula hoop, like a whitish, bluish hula hoop thing. Yeah. Like a ring. And there's nothing behind our house at that point. We had a little river. But we used to leave the window open because, you know, it was an old house. We didn't have like AC and all this crap.

0:40 Speaker 1: or air conditioners. Right. And so we left the window open with a screen and there's nothing behind our house, but like, um, you know, alfalfa field.

0:51 Speaker 2: Right.

0:51 Speaker 1: Right. And, um, we saw that. And then I remember, um, you know, seeing this path and this rock in my head, like kind of thing. And, and like this field, an open field, like a, Like in the middle of a very wooded area, this big open field. Did you know that the FBI combed my park a couple years ago?

1:13 Speaker 2: No way.

1:14 Speaker 1: They were all over my park. They had backhoes and everything.

1:17 Speaker 3: 2006.

1:17 Speaker 1: And I didn't wake up for three days. And I remember how I woke up. I remember looking at water. It was like I was in the clouds. And I was looking down in the ocean. I started getting closer and closer and closer and closer to the ocean. The place that we were, I mean, just the hallway that I remember seeing, this big, round, empty area. Like, it was a big circle. It was empty. And there were these gray markings on the ground, right? Or a floor or whatever. And it was like a Y configuration over a circle.

1:48 Speaker 1: So you have a circle, and then there was like a Y. And one part of the Y on the bottom part was like a four-lane highway. It was that wide. And the other two, right, were like a single-car road. And then... big circle area with grey markings on the floor.

3:00 Speaker 2: So so All righty, guys, welcome back to the show. It's a pleasure to be back at our regular time slot here on Thursday night.

3:43 Speaker 4: This is Total Disclosure, and my name's Ty.

3:47 Speaker 2: We have a very interesting show for you ahead, and I really enjoy getting back to the heart of the phenomenon. the experiencer, the encounters that just don't sit right with most people. And that's because of the inherent implications that come with something like this being true. Forcing people into this ontological and existential conflict inside of them. This phenomenon seems to almost act as a mirror. And I think we all need to know who is looking back. Before we dive down the rabbit hole, I just want to take this time to brief you on how you can help support the show.

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4:55 Speaker 4: Next week.

4:55 Speaker 2: We have Bryce Sable. It's going to be a wonderful show. I truly love doing these shows in person, facilitating these discussions that, you know, push the boundaries of what is known and unknown. And with that, I do say happy spooky season. Let's dive in today. We have the main witness and him and I have been like ships passing in the night for two years. And we've tried to do this damn podcast, but let's go. Welcome to the show. After all this time, Berkshire UFO, Mr. Thomas Reed.

5:37 Speaker 1: Hey, buddy. Finally.

5:39 Speaker 2: Right?

5:40 Speaker 1: Finally. Two years later, right?

5:41 Speaker 2: We made it.

5:42 Speaker 1: Yeah. And 20 or 30 pounds heavier. Right? Yeah. Good life, I guess. How are you, man?

5:49 Speaker 2: I'm great.

5:52 Speaker 4: You just got back from... long trip.

5:55 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah i was in vegas for a while yeah and holding an event there yeah.

6:00 Speaker 2: How was everything good.

6:04 Speaker 1: Oh yeah i mean well it wasn't actually in vegas i flew into vegas and uh it was a town called frump right outside of it and i'm thinking a lot of activity there as well i was there with mike barra and jesse marcel jr and and uh you know joseph who held it and his wife and I mean, it was really nice, you know, and I had never been to Nevada before, believe it or not. It's just one of those states I've never been to, like Delaware. I've never been to Delaware. Yeah, but it was pretty cool. I liked it.

6:30 Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun. On the way back, though, my flight got bumped, and I ended up spending the night in La Quinta and, you know, all that kind of stuff, but that's what made it fun, right? Yeah. But I'm shot. I've got, like, three hours sleep, so bear with me today.

6:43 Speaker 2: No, no, we absolutely will bear with you, and obviously tonight, My goal is to really ground this encounter in the raw truth. Something I found that even myself incurred was a lot of over inflated details, over sensationalized aspects that were seemingly injected into the story where it wasn't even needed. The story's pretty wild itself, just on the facts. so I just don't understand how that stuff happens, but maybe you could take us back to the absolute beginning, before the lights or the media coverage or, you know, tell us maybe what that first sensory indicator that something anomalous was happening around you was.

7:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, first, the 1969 incident was not the first, you know, encounter in Sheffield. It was actually the third that really made news. The first one was in 1966. And I think people realize this, and this is part of why it gets muddied. You know, there were multiple events there and there's still things going on. And then when you do a show like Unsolved Mysteries and you've got two people with the same first name, you know, one's trying to keep it, you know, grounded and factual because you've got an agreement with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts not to, you know, make anyone look silly.

8:17 Speaker 1: And then you've got somebody else who, you know, was working as a, basically a custodian at a historical society that saw an opportunity to get on TV and came up with a story, you know, because it was, you know, he had an opportunity to do so and make a name for himself, I guess. But, and then on top of that, you've got a reporter by the name of Terry Calgill, who used to live in Sharon, Connecticut, where my mother used to be the radio personality for WKZE and where my father was running for office.

8:44 Speaker 1: And of course he worked for the Lakeville Journal. So he used to write stories about my father when he was running for office. And there was some bad blood there too. I guess he wanted a satellite dish. My dad said, it's too close to the road. You can't have it. So that's when he attacked my monument. I can't have the satellite dish. So Tom can't have the monument, whatever it was, right? So there's a lot of small town nonsense, right? Yeah, that's kind of- Go ahead.

9:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me of like, you know how towns have Facebook pages now?

9:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

9:15 Speaker 4: It's just like, so much, it's all drama.

9:19 Speaker 2: Pure town drama.

9:21 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah. I don't like the crosswalk or whatever, it's stupid. But what happens though, to your point, is like a lot of this gets picked up and then repeated. You know, like I've never said ever in my life, you won't find it. I've never said we were abducted by aliens. I never said that. First, not once in my life. And I'll tell you why, for starters, We weren't. And secondly, I've got a contractional agreement with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the Historical Society that I won't use certain verbiage.

9:52 Speaker 1: I can describe what happened, but I can't label it. Right. And so, you know, you know, like, right. If somebody is going to, if a state is going to take this type of a leap, they want some reassurances. Right. And so, so with that, I've been very, you know, particular and honest about what happened. Right. And, and like, first of all, there's so many things that happened in 69 at night. first of all, it was a holiday, right? It was Labor Day. There was an awful lot of people that were out with different families and barbecues.

10:28 Speaker 1: There was a 4-H horse show at Ski Butternut in Great Barrington where I was riding earlier that day. And so it was super hot. It was like 95 degrees that day. And it should have been in the low 70s, right? We're talking September in the Berkshires, right? And So we left early. We went back to the diner. And the diner is really the catalyst for all this. I mean, if it wasn't for our diner, we wouldn't be having this conversation because it had to tie us to the space race, right? We were the only spot that had music.

11:04 Speaker 1: You didn't have an FM radio station in the Berkshires. You either had to try to get a station from Albany or Connecticut, right? There was no maybe Pittsfield, but you couldn't get a clean station for music. So My mother had this Woolitzer jukebox and she would pump all these quarters in it. And then all those that were coming into the Berkshires to work at Sprague Electric that made the goodwill message that was left at the moon by Buzz Aldrin and GE. And of course, where you are, you've got command aerospace, there's Pratt and Whitney up in Hartford and NASA was in Cambridge.

11:38 Speaker 1: And so all these millions of dollars went into NASA and NASA filtered that back out to those coming into the area to work on a space race for Sprague and GE primarily. And where did they eat? Well, they ate in the diner. Right, because we had a jukebox. My mom would just flood it with quarters and who wants meatloaf, right? And so that's kind of what brought those members working on the Apollo missions into our restaurant. And then, and of course with that, when the 1967 news article came out about our family and our case, Because 69 was not the first.

12:17 Speaker 1: The first one to make the papers was 1967. So here we are, you know, having an egg sandwich with members of the space race on a Saturday afternoon. And they're reading a news article about our family's UFO incident when they're in the Berkshires to work on a space project. Right. And so this went back and forth and my mother became very open and they became very open with her. And that's what spawned the idea of the Goodwill message going to the moon years later.

12:48 Speaker 2: Wait, in your diner is where the inception for that was born? Yeah.

12:59 Speaker 1: Why do you think we made history? Because it was gray aliens were running around Sheffield? No, it's because our connection to the space. I sent you a lot of that, by the way. Yeah, but that's it. You know, and so because I sent you the article too, I think you saw the article from 1967. And so we were new. First of all, we were New Yorkers, right? So we just moved into an area. We had no idea what was happening in our backyard. We didn't know what was going on. My mother didn't know. I mean, she was 26, 27 years old when she bought the restaurant.

13:28 Speaker 1: She was single. And so she needed to keep it open light. And because the Great Barrington horse track was down the road, right? It was the second largest track to Saratoga back in the day. And Evel Knievel jumped there and had rides. So when you come in from Albany to work on a space program, two of the Berkshires that doesn't even have a mall or a radio station, where do you go? You go to the horse track, right? And then you go eat at her diner. And that is what the grounding is for our family's incident.

14:01 Speaker 1: And of course, my father, my stepfather ran for office. He was elected. He did two terms. He took the case to the United Nations. That is the backstory to this case. It's not a story. It's actually history. But then when the shows, you know, so what happened, right? I'm going to get to what went wrong, where it all got derailed. But so when a show comes in to film and go, okay, so the Great Barrington Historical Society inducted this incident, the Reed family incident. So it must have happened in Great Barrington.

14:37 Speaker 1: No. It's because our family's diner was proven to not only alter the natural progression of the community in Sheffield, but also all of Berkshire County because of its connection to the space race. And so Sheffield being a small town, like Billy the Kid altered the railroad. He didn't alter the railroad for half a mile. He altered the railroad for hundreds of miles. And so we had to, or the Great Barrington Historical Society had to find a way to induct an incident from a neighboring community legally, or they couldn't do it.

15:17 Speaker 1: And so they put it to a vote, did the Reed family incident, alter all of Berkshire County. And if it did, then we will induct it and tag it the Berkshire's UFO. But in doing so, a lot of people thought it happened in Great Barrington. So those people, I saw it too, right? No, you didn't. just like Travis Walton knows who was in his truck. You know, we know who was in our diner, right?

15:40 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

15:41 Speaker 1: And so when they say, oh, you know, I saw it, whatever. And then in Unsolved Mysteries, they open up the book from the police department. Well, apparently no one did because there's no log here because it didn't happen there. And that's why when they went back and to speak to Eddie Gulotta, whose father was the chief of police, he's like, yeah, we were dispatched to go out and look for it in the fields where we were. And all this really started from that night it started with ham radio. Right. Tom J and the police department were hearing his chatter over ham radio.

16:14 Speaker 1: And so the police department had reached out to Tom J who ran the, who was the main voice for WS radio. And they asked him to go on, you know, go back to the station, cut in on the broadcast because it was like a loop to loop thing.

16:30 Speaker 2: Yeah.

16:31 Speaker 1: You know, because people were listening to it in their cars because it was the only station they could get. And so, you know, call the station if, you know, you hear anything or let us know where it is. And then we can work with the Great Barrington Police Department or the Sheffield Police Department or whatever to dispatch. And so, yes, they dispatched to Sheffield. And that's actually in Unsolved Mysteries. They dispatched to Sheffield. Great Barrington had no record because it didn't happen.

16:56 Speaker 2: And thus would not have a record of it. And that's actually a brilliant example. That's a brilliant way at that time to, to, yeah, to implore the community. You have, you have a bunch of nodes out in the field and you give that call.

17:19 Speaker 4: Now everyone's like, you know, take up and you have, you know.

17:23 Speaker 2: You have hundreds of nodes that are now going to feed information back. That's a, that's so smart.

17:28 Speaker 1: Oh yes. You get it. Yeah. And a lot of the reports came in from Jug End. There was like a golf tournament there, you know, or something going on. So a lot of them came from there and they were up higher, I guess, because they used to ski there too or something. But there were reports there. It got us high net classification. So, yeah. So let me, I'll tell you what happened though. So I was actually, it was a hot day. Like I said, we left early. You know, I was at Ski Butternut.

17:53 Speaker 2: It was September 1st, correct?

17:55 Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.

17:56 Speaker 4: So it's September 1st. It's a really hot day.

17:59 Speaker 1: Brutal.

18:00 Speaker 2: Brutally hot. All right.

18:03 Speaker 4: I was just kind of setting that stage for myself.

18:05 Speaker 1: Yeah. And something that is in the records, if you Google it or chat GBT or whatever, there was this weird silence that came over the community in Sheffield. It was referred to as a vacuum of silence, right? This vacuum like being in the middle of a hurricane and then this silence. I thought it was isolated to us, but it wasn't. And apparently it's, it's in the news, but anyway, or the record reports. And then before I go too far, I want to make sure people realize that the community right around our diner was also, you know, associated with nuclear weapons, right?

18:44 Speaker 1: I think I sent you that as well.

18:45 Speaker 2: Yes, you did. It's a huge, anyone who watches my show will know that I have a huge interest in the nuclear, you know, I'm very good friends with guys like Bob Salas.

18:58 Speaker 1: Yeah.

18:59 Speaker 2: You know, speaking of 67, 67 Malmstrom, right? So the whole, the country is, the country is seeing something. It's just a matter of what is it?

19:09 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. So there was, again, the, the lime aquaries, there's also underground bases there. People hear these wind up, you know, still to this day, these wind up emergency, like horns or whistles or whatever. You'll still hear that around 919, you know, in Sheffield and you don't know where it's coming from. There were underground explosions in 2022. You can Google that. It's nuts. And there's the crop circles of 2012, 2013, 1995. This is like Sheffield Skinwalker, right? I mean, it's just something odd going on.

19:45 Speaker 1: And I wanted to tell you that because a lot of people go, why aren't you scared when you saw it? you know, that day? Well, because we were intrigued by it. This wasn't the first time we saw it. You know, this is the first time we were, you know, as a family, all that close to it. And it wasn't that late. You know, so we left the horse show heading towards Sheffield. My mother wanted to lock up. She's like, I got to relieve the cook. I'm going to, you know, do what I can with, you know, make the night deposit drop and that kind of thing.

20:18 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, we got to the restaurant, the Village Green, which was a diner, right around 830, quarter nine. Hell, we all, you saw it. Oh, is that 2022? Yeah, there you go.

20:30 Speaker 2: This is 2022. You can get it at.

20:32 Speaker 1: Sheffield, right? It's not Great Barrington. It's all Sheffield.

20:36 Speaker 2: Right. First thing, Sheffield.

20:38 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's up top too. Rattles Sheffield. Yeah. No, no. If you go up higher, it's up there too. Right. Oh yeah.

20:47 Speaker 2: Right here.

20:47 Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is when I keep trying to let people, if somebody says it happened in great Barrington, they're just, you know, hijacking things. They're just, it didn't happen in Sheffield. It happened in Sheffield. It didn't happen outside Sheffield. It happened right in this tiny little town. Matter of fact, if it did happen in great Barrington, all right. they wouldn't have needed to induct a case from Sheffield. Right?

21:13 Speaker 2: Right.

21:14 Speaker 1: And if it didn't happen, if it happened, if Warner and these other so-called hijackers, right, or whatever, if they were really involved, they wouldn't have needed to contact my family a thousand miles away. Because Warner also volunteered at the Historical Society. He was like a janitor. So if you've got somebody working within your own historical society, and you call some other family in, and even though this person's like, you know, swearing he saw it or whatever he did, right? Wouldn't he be listed at least as a witness?

21:50 Speaker 1: He would. Yeah.

21:51 Speaker 2: He's not.

21:52 Speaker 1: Because the historical society knew. That's why they didn't film him at the historical society. They filmed him at his house.

22:01 Speaker 1: Because he could say anything he wanted at his house. He wasn't to be scrutinized. Right. And he failed his body language analysis. And by the way, he found out about this because he sat in during the vetting process.

22:16 Speaker 3: Right?

22:17 Speaker 1: So do you know how the information was given to the historical society? Do you know who forwarded that by any chance?

22:26 Speaker 2: I do not.

22:27 Speaker 1: The Roswell Museum and the Kessler Law Firm.

22:31 Speaker 4: Yes, I actually did read this.

22:32 Speaker 2: Yes.

22:33 Speaker 3: Sorry.

22:33 Speaker 1: Okay. So yes. All right, so when people say, Tom, claim this, I'm not claiming anything. I'm only telling you what the state inducted, right, which has to do with our family. I'm not making a claim. It's a United States history, right? I mean, it's officially archived by the governor, the lieutenant governor, a judge in a 30th district court, and the historical society. It's not my claim. I don't understand why they did it. Tom's claim, I'm not saying anything that's a claim. I'm telling, I put forth documents and then a law firm went all the way to Roswell, right, to mine for information about our family and its appearance, I guess, or mention on October 2nd, 1992 at the United Nations.

23:22 Speaker 1: We've been talking about this a long time. Where it went in support of General Assembly 33-426. Stanton Friedman was there. Linda Morton Howe was there. Our lawyer was there. You know, this isn't something that just came out of nowhere. because of an Unsolved Mysteries episode, Unsolved Mysteries contacted me because it made history. And then they just flipped it on its head because, you know, you know, they were in town for weeks and I only filmed for a day. And so when I left, I guess there was like, well, they're still here.

23:52 Speaker 1: If we make a really cool story, they'll add us to the episode as well. And that's kind of what happened.

23:59 Speaker 2: That is, you know, that is one thing that, that especially you, Obviously, no offense, but.

24:07 Speaker 4: It is the late 60s in a small town, right?

24:15 Speaker 2: And even like you said, there's not much to do. So when Unsolved Mysteries comes in, that itch starts to scratch from anybody who you know, is, is at least morally willing to make something up to be on TV. Like that, like people get excited when TVs cameras around and they get, they get a little over exacerbated with their claims and yeah, it sucks, but it really, it really does. Cause it's.

24:45 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you're absolutely right. But I brought in travel channel twice. I brought in discovery channel. I brought in ancient aliens, ancient aliens did a really good job, by the way.

24:54 Speaker 2: They did.

24:55 Speaker 1: Did you watch that one? The one called The Taken. That was pretty good. Bar was there.

24:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just sat down with Childress in Texas.

25:04 Speaker 1: Oh, no kidding.

25:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, really cool guy. He's like a real-life Indiana Jones, dude.

25:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was hanging out with him in Arizona. He's like a complete James Bond fanatic. Diamonds are forever and all that. Yeah, he's a good guy. Yeah, it was cool that you met him. I respect him. He's somebody I like. Anyway, yeah, so as far as what happened with us that night, though, again, we had gone back to the diner to lock it up, right? My mother, you know, night deposit drop, you know, get it ready for the following day, put the chairs up, right? And so we went to leave, right? And, you know, it was getting late.

25:48 Speaker 1: We were tired because it was so hot. And so it was about 8.30. We usually went to bed around 9.00. And so she takes the shortcut over the bridge, the Sheffield Bridge. And I used to eat those, you know, cinnamon hot fireballs or whatever they were called. And so we're going over the bridge. I was giving one to my brother. And my grandmother had turned around from the passenger seat, right? And said, don't give that to him, Tom. You know, he could choke and that kind of thing. I remember that, right?

26:18 Speaker 1: And as she's looking out the back of the station wagon, you know, we saw this large sphere. And it wasn't like an orb type thing where it was misty or anything. It was crisp, like a cue ball, right? From a pool table. But it had like an inner glow to it, like a two or three watt bulb. I mean, it had a glow to it, but it didn't bleed outward, right? I mean, it was solid, right? And it rose up like two or three stories off to the left of my car. It was sort of behind me at this point. I was looking back because we were still moving like five, 10 miles an hour down this dirt road.

26:54 Speaker 1: where it was originally like the side, by the time it was staying still. And so we're moving forward and this thing is still, so I'm looking kind of out the window. The windows were open. We didn't have air conditioning in the car at that time. And we had it in the Mustang, I think. But anyway, as it rose up, it kind of waited, it paused. And then out the side of it, these rods of light like fired into the ground. So momentarily, it reminded me of like an ice cream cone.

27:24 Speaker 3: Right.

27:25 Speaker 1: But I only, I really remember two rods. I mean, ancient aliens, I think put like six of them, but it was like, and it didn't come from the bottom. That was the interesting thing. It came from the sides. So it came. So you got the circle and then boom. Right. And then those rods went into the water, the Housatonic river. My brother was trying to see, but I'm blocking him. Right. So he's looking out the passenger side of the car, right. To my right. And he, is the first one to notice there's another orange one off the water and it had like a rolling inside it looked like a like a lava type of thing something moving yellows and oranges and it was a smaller orb or a smaller sphere off the water so it looked like this thing fired into the water sending some charge into the water and the orange one absorbed it so I'm like it's shocked and boom, and this thing lit up and started moving.

28:25 Speaker 1: So we're, we continually go down. We never stopped. Right. Not until later, but we were still going down a dirt road and we started to feel like we were underwater.

28:34 Speaker 2: Right.

28:36 Speaker 1: Was this an effect of what we just saw? Right. We don't know. Did our neurons get affected? You know, you're trying to be responsible about how you look at this. Right.

28:45 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

28:47 Speaker 1: And so my mother, you know, we were trying to find the white sphere again, you know, or, We're not, we weren't like already knowing where something was, right? We're still, we're looking around for things, right? There's trees on the way, you know, so we lose it for a little bit. So there was this little spot near the telephone pole and my mom pulled the car over. And so it was on the right side of the road. The lights were still on, the car is running. And so she stopped because it was a clearing.

29:16 Speaker 1: And if this white sphere was moving in the direction of our car, which we believed it was, then we should see it shortly, right? And we didn't. We didn't see it again. But what we did see was this large craft that looked like a turtle shell. And I say that because if you remember A.I. Atlas, how it looked chunky and blocky, right? It looked like that. And we've been saying that's what, since the 60s, right? It wasn't sexy, right? It didn't have cool lights and all this. And now it just looked like a huge rock or like a turtle shell.

29:50 Speaker 1: It looked like it had patches and chunks or whatever. And it was just hovering there. And we have been describing this thing for 50 years, right? And so what we saw, I'll try to, so if this is the craft, right? Right. So it looked like, okay, so it was thin like this. The center here was fatter than the top and bottom. So it wasn't like it had a thin ridge like this. It was thick. And it looked like a snakeskin. It looked like it had movement to it or something. It looked really kind of, almost looked alive, right?

30:24 Speaker 1: It looked kind of weird. And then this reddish light started to come from one side of it and slowly take over the craft. So you could see it clearly, you know, and my mom's like, man, what is that? Right. And it just looks strange. It didn't have landing gear. There were no windows and we didn't see anything. It was just, but the thing was magnificent. Right. It was just, it's like hanging there. Not a, you know, just wow. Like floating. No noise. No. And there were other activity in the area too, but focus on this right now.

31:06 Speaker 1: Yep. And so, you know, now we're starting to hear like a tapping sound, like, like, like stones underneath your, if you're driving over gravel, right. You're going to the beach or whatever. And you hear that ting, ting, ting, ting, ting, ting, ting. And so we start to feel like we're having a hard time breathing, right? Like almost like a suffocating feeling. And then, you know, you feel my mother described as like being wrapped in cellophane, like really tight, like, you know, and so hard to breathe.

31:37 Speaker 1: And then this ting, ting, ting, ting, ting. And then all of a sudden it was just like, boom, like we're shoved deep in a swim pool, like really deep. Like, like when you hear a tapping in a swim pool, it echoes, right?

31:47 Speaker 2: Right.

31:48 Speaker 1: It was like a surreal type of like, what's going on? You know, I've never had a stroke, right? it was something like that. Like you're hearing these weird noises and you're, you're having a hard time breathing. And, and then I can see the dashboard is like the inside of the car was like lit up. I could see door handles. I mean, it was just like blindingly bright, but it didn't hurt my eyes. Not like a dome light. I mean, it was bright and I could see everyone, but I was still felt like I was underwater.

32:18 Speaker 1: Like I, like you're holding your breath kind of thing, but not intentionally. Right. Um, And then, you know, flip back to like normal, like someone took a switch on like life itself, right? Boom. And all of a sudden it's like back. And it was instantaneous like that. And then all of a sudden, bang, it's like crickets and katias erupted, right? Maybe because it was so quiet earlier, it sounded that way, but it just sounded like an eruption, right? And that's the last thing I remember from being in the car at that time.

32:52 Speaker 1: And some people say, oh, you were zapped and Into a UFO. I never said that because where we were was a hell of a lot bigger than any craft we saw. I mean, where are we just this Bay area that I remember being in with my, my brother remembers it too, but I don't remember seeing him at that time. Right. When I came to, if you will, or next thing I remember was being in this like large, like airplane hangar. I've always said it was like an airplane hangar because my, you know, my mother and father later, you know, became small engine pilots.

33:27 Speaker 1: And, um, I'd go to the airport and it used to trigger something with me like, man, this is like what I remember. Right. Um, but I do remember that there were like fluorescent tube lights where the wall met the ceiling kind of thing. And there was like a light, a space, a light space, a light of space. And it went for quite some time. And I'm, I'm sure those tubes of light were at least, you know, two or three feet long. Right. And, um, It was enough that I could see there was nothing in the bay that I was in.

33:59 Speaker 3: Wow.

34:01 Speaker 1: And so I remember at one point being like grabbed my left arm like really hard, like it hurt. And I was kind of like pushed forward. So whoever grabbed my arm was kind of like behind me to my left. I didn't actually look around and see who it was. It was just like someone was behind me and pushing me along. And I remember being taken out of a doorway, which a light. you know, from a hallway. I remember going out the door and I was taken into another room that had a glassed in wall, like, like block glass.

34:33 Speaker 1: Right. Yep. And there was a, like a entrance or exit on each side of the block glass. It reminded me more like an MRI room, you know, something like that. And when I was put on this, you know, some type of a examining table or whatever. And as I sat on it, It kind of rose, went up and down. It had like a pole in the middle. And there was an apparatus type of thing in the ceiling and it kind of lowered like this. And they both, you know, kind of like a, I don't know, it's kind of sandwiched me.

35:07 Speaker 2: Yeah.

35:08 Speaker 1: And there were holes on the side of it. And there were hands that came through like human hands and placed things on my body that look like raisin packs, like giant raisins about the size of, I don't know, maybe a golf, like a, like a golf ball maybe, and they were black and they stuck to my skin. I remember a bump to my head. I remember running at one point. I ran out this door to the right. I was feeling like really out of it at some times and then, I don't know, I'd become more, combat my senses and my, you know.

35:44 Speaker 2: I would be more normal.

35:46 Speaker 4: Like fight or flight would kick back in.

35:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, at times I was just going along and cooperating and then I wanted to be out of there. Um, it was a, it was a tough time for me.

35:59 Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I can't imagine. Yeah. Yeah.

36:02 Speaker 1: I don't, not so much because of what was happening. I wasn't being hurt, but I don't think having any idea what was going on was, you know, um, was I ever going to see my family again? Where was I? What was happening? Um, it was one of those, right. I wanted to go home.

36:18 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

36:19 Speaker 1: And, um, and I remember seeing like a, like, like, what I've described as looking like ants on two legs, you know, two of them, they were actually facing a wall to my left. Like they were looking at something that was embedded into the wall. And this was back in the sixties. We didn't have like plasma TVs and all that, but there was something going on in the wall and they were looking into the wall. Um, and they were like four or five feet tall. They didn't look like, um, what people describe today as like a gray or what have you, there was really, the head had the big eyes and kind of, I've got a stuffed version of it that was going, it's actually for the museum, the Roswell Museum, but it's like an extra.

37:05 Speaker 1: I have it somewhere. I could probably get it in a minute.

37:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, when we take a break for the ad read, I'd love to see it.

37:12 Speaker 1: Yeah. You are saying.

37:15 Speaker 4: Okay, just to be clear, and I don't mean to interrupt you.

37:18 Speaker 1: No, it's fine.

37:20 Speaker 4: You are saying that.

37:24 Speaker 2: Of course, you've never said you were abducted by any aliens, but while in this whatever facility, you did see something strange.

37:36 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I've always said that. Yeah. Yeah.

37:37 Speaker 2: Okay.

37:38 Speaker 1: Okay.

37:39 Speaker 4: And were these things very clearly not human?

37:43 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. Okay. Right. We definitely were involved in something off-world. but we were removed from our vehicle by, by government. But let me, I'll, let me tell you what happened afterward. So I remember being put back in that room, right? I remember hearing my mother's, you know, talking or calling my name. My mother remembers reaching out. My grandmother was the one that was the most affected by it. Um, my brother, probably the least, I guess. Um, so when we, the four of us, um, we're back in the station wagon.

38:20 Speaker 1: Okay. This is where it gets kind of like to, to your point.

38:23 Speaker 2: Okay.

38:24 Speaker 1: My mother was no longer in the driver's seat. She was in the passenger seat. My grandmother was now in the driver's seat and the headlights on the car were off and the car was turned off. When we had, we're watching the craft, what seemed like moments earlier, the car was running, the lights were on and individuals were, you know, not shifted like they were afterwards. Right. Which not only screams human error, but, you know, do aliens know how to shut off, you know, an ignition in a Chevy station wagon?

39:00 Speaker 1: So there's an awful lot of things that, you know, not only from witnesses that saw Jeeps coming out of the, you know, army Jeeps coming out of the woods and these, you know, government, you know, look like, you know, maybe, I don't know, National Guard or whatever it was, but they had the big phones on their hips.

39:22 Speaker 2: Right. Tactical gear and all that.

39:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was everywhere. And there were buses that, just prior to this happening, going through town, that looked like Greyhound buses, but they had grayed out and the windows were tinted and they were using the buses to transport weapons. All this was happening at the same time. And so when we discussed this, with the police. My mother did call the police that night. It was really easy for them to accept the fact that, hey, you were involved in something governmental around here. This place is crazy with everything that's going on.

39:59 Speaker 1: And so it was easier for them to kind of not throw us under the bus, if you will, because of what was happening. And of course, everybody just went, oh, it was a government thing. But we know that what we saw was a lot more than, I've never seen anything like that even to this day, that moved the way it did and operated the way it did. But anyway, so my grandmother, she was the first one to come to, if you will. And she took our station wagon down the road, maybe, I don't know, eighth of a mile, turned around and went back to town for help.

40:33 Speaker 1: So she drove right back over the bridge and went screaming back to town, which is like three quarters of a mile. Our house was miles away. This is, we're practically in town where the police department is, the fire department, our diner, our friends, right? So she went back for help. Because my mother was not responding. I wasn't responding. My brother was out. So she didn't know what to do. And she's still feeling like out of it a little bit, like a, almost like a sodium pentothal when you come out of surgery.

40:58 Speaker 2: Oh, right. Like, yeah, like a little, little haze coming over.

41:03 Speaker 3: A lot.

41:04 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so she drove right by the entrance to where our store was and the police department, everything else. She just missed it and then had to take the second entrance in. And when she did, the driver's door was now right across from Silk Store's entrance, which was a store next to ours, but they were still open, right? So she got out of the car, started to walk into, I woke up too. I was seeing her like over the steering wheel. Like I could see her start to walk in. So I was coming out of it now too.

41:37 Speaker 1: And I opened up the door and I'm yelling, Nana, Nana. And she didn't even respond to me. So she kind of shifts and goes into Silk Store. Yeah, the old store, ding, the bell goes off, right? And so I'm like, Nana, and I followed her in. Well, Silk's was kind of weird in the way it was set up. The cashier was in the back of the store, not the front. And so she kind of goes to the back of the store, but there's bikes and strollers. It was like a convenience type of thing, like an everyday, you know, hardware or whatever.

42:07 Speaker 1: And so she walks past these people that are in there. by the strollers, grabs a handle of one of the strollers. And I'm pulling her hand, like she's trying to get, speak to the guy, right? And I'm grabbing her hand and it was just messy. Like nothing made sense. We were like, well, what's going on? And you know, why are we here? And Nana, I need your help. And she's like, I'd like to speak to you for a moment. And so the guy from the register kind of comes over because I'm like somewhat hysterical, I guess, you know?

42:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, you kind of have. I think it's warranted.

42:44 Speaker 1: And she doesn't know what to say to me because she's not sure what happened either. And so while she's talking to the owner of Silk Store, he has two daughters who remember this too. They just did an interview and they're doing interviews now in Spain. My mother was now out of the car and my grandmother saw her And at that time just decided, you know, we're just going to go home because how do you report something that bizarre, right? Like she didn't know what to report. But we didn't know at the time this was happening, that we were at Silks, that Tom Jay was already on the air asking for people to call into the station to let them know where this craft was.

43:28 Speaker 1: And little did we know that they had dispatched Eddie Gulotta, who was on Unsolved Mysteries, and his father to where we were. So if she had said something, you know, who knows what would happen? I think it would have been different. You know, you know, they would probably told us the way they would have came to Silks. But anyway, so Tom Jay had been dispatched or through the radio and so on, gotten the location. It was the DePaul's to the two Paul girls were on Boardman Street as well. They reported it, Gina mostly.

44:01 Speaker 1: And they had dispatched to right where we were. They had said the UFO was on the ground. I don't remember it on the ground, but they may have been talking about the spheres because it looked ground level. And that was more lit up.

44:17 Speaker 2: Very good point.

44:18 Speaker 1: But we went home and the next morning, you know, we went into my mother because a lot of people don't know this either, but our diner was across the street from the elementary school. And so my mother used to run a tab for a lot of the children. So rather than have to wait for the bus or walk you know half a mile to get to the bus stop their parents the moms because there are a lot of farmers and right they would just drop their kids off at our diner and my mom would run a tab and all the kids would eat together and order off the menu right i'd have french toast i'll have an omelet and then we would all you know ride our little banana seat bikes together across the street to school then so the next morning man it was like um wsbs was rerunning some of the the people who had called in as witnesses, you know, I saw this and people were eating, right?

45:08 Speaker 1: Oh, I know Mary, I know Jan, right? Everyone's, oh my God, you know? And this was like a reckoning for us because the 67 incident that came out a couple of years earlier that made the newspapers, that's when we were nut jobs, right? That's, oh, come on. The only ones that really took an interest were those working at Sprague Electric and GE. You know, the locals were like, you know, come on, really seriously? But then again- Right. But then again, you know, you're, you know, you're talking to, you know, a different dynamic, right.

45:39 Speaker 1: Um, of, of people, you know, um, and because of the track and the diner, we had a lot of people coming in from Long Island and going to the races, the horse race and stuff. So there were a lot of people coming through Sheffield, even now they go to Tanglewood, they go to music and, you know, they go to Stockbridge. I mean, it's kind of a tourist area outside Sheffield, but Sheffield really isn't, but you have to go through it. Right. Yeah. And, and so we picked up a lot of that traffic. And, and so now it's a pizza house.

46:09 Speaker 1: And they still have a lot of the original documents hanging on the wall there. And, and, yeah, if you go to Roberto's pizzeria, you'll see the government, you know, letters and everything else all over the house back there. Yeah, that's why I keep saying, you know, I don't understand how this thing got so derailed. I mean, it's, it's a case that has ties to the space race. nuclear weapons you know what was it um i think the the canaan quarry you know was working with uh with the manhattan project if i read that right yep i mean that that was our backyard you know and so later on my um my father ended up we moved right we had had enough right and so my father uh ran for office and got elected and was in canaan you know he um right.

47:01 Speaker 1: For two terms. And he was an attorney, you know, and, uh, we got a call from a friend of my father's, uh, Robert Bletchman. He was an attorney in Manchester, Connecticut. His office was on broad street. And, um, my dad was like, I want you to meet this guy, talk to him because I was living in Glastonbury or Manchester, not far away. And, um, and so I met with him and, um, I wanted him to see, you know, see what, yeah, my dad wanted me to sit down with you. You know, what do you want to talk about?

47:30 Speaker 1: And he's like, um, I have something big coming up was the first thing you said to me. And we're going to be speaking at the United Nations symposium coming up October 2nd, 1992. And we'd like to discuss your case, your family's incident, because we believe it might have some ties to the Hudson River Valley sightings. And so this again, where it got, you know, kicking the pants again, it got kind of, you know, made news again. And this is because our case was over the Hudson, I'm sorry, the Hudson River ran parallel to the Housatonic River, which is ours.

48:07 Speaker 1: So you got the Housatonic River in our case, and then you've got the Hudson River, which isn't too far away. And they kind of run parallel to each other. And so the thinking was that perhaps what happened in Great Barrington and Sheffield and Stockbridge and the space race thing and all that and Canaan and the nuclear arms thing going on, could that have carried over to the Hudson, could this be a bleed over? And so when our case got mentioned at the United Nations on October 2nd, 1992 by attorney Robert Blutchman, it was the idea here was that it was a soft mention that, hey, this case back in the 60s, you know, had ties to space race, the Apollo missions, right?

48:50 Speaker 1: The Goodwill message, you know, Sprague Electric, GE, all this kind of thing. You know, it's very possible that what is happening over the Hudson is related That was the idea. And of course, if you know our case, you know what happened to my father, right?

49:08 Speaker 2: Can you, do you mind?

49:10 Speaker 1: He was killed. My father was killed on October 2nd. And because he was political and advocating what had taken place. in Sheffield, we got a call from the Historical Society that Tom would like to do something with this. And so this is really personal to me because this.

49:29 Speaker 3: Is not a story.

49:30 Speaker 1: This is not about running in place, you know, kind of thing and this cornball nonsense. This is a real bona fide formerly an archived UFO incident and a first in America to have the kind of record recognition it does. And so, um, I'm really struggling here to, to keep this, um, focused, you know, preserved for what it really is. Um, and why I'm so careful in how I word things.

50:00 Speaker 2: Right.

50:01 Speaker 1: So, um, so again, you know, um, you know, we, uh, he got a bench, you know, was given to him and then, uh, there was going to be a, like a, a proclamation. He did get one, actually got a proclamation. And then that's when we heard from the great Baron of historical society to say, you know, we'd love to do something with your family's incident because it was so profound that it, it changed a lot of things around here and opened people's eyes up. You know, your, our diner was a judgment free diner.

50:31 Speaker 1: If you wanted to come in and talk about UFOs, ghosts, whatever you wanted. My mother was really open like that. She's like, look, this is a judgment-free area. And I carried my mom's idea and feeling over to the park. So now the park is a judgment-free park, right? Bigfoot, whatever you want, it's judgment-free. We don't pass judgment, right? We know what it was like to be ostracized. We know what it was like to get our fights in a school bus and that kind of thing, right? And to feel alone. Yeah, but when we had those people coming in from the space race, But the thing was, they also could only say so much.

51:11 Speaker 1: So my mother, by the way, she'd lock the door and keep the place open until 11, 12 o'clock at night because she was making money with the meatloaf.

51:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

51:21 Speaker 1: And the quarters, she was just pumping them in and taking them back out. And if you want to listen to the Stones and have a nice burger and a coffee shake, that was the place to be.

51:32 Speaker 2: And a good conversation that had no judgment or- or, you know, it became that safe place of, of idea sharing. And that's, that is so valuable.

51:44 Speaker 1: That's what it was. It's so, that's why our, our case, I think you also have to look at the people that came in there. There's a lot of them are still around today. You know, these kids never wavered. They stick to their guns and they put it out there. And, and together we made a form of history, right? It's not like me, me, me. It's like us, us, us. Right. But But don't include people that weren't part of it because there's an awful lot of people that are still afraid to talk out about this. And I'm encouraging them to do so.

52:15 Speaker 1: But those who are involved in it deserve to be heard, not those who had nothing to do with it, right? Who are opportunists. And for that, I'm very protective of those who... Linda Farrow, I talk about her all the time. the diner we had had a second floor and some, like many restaurants, you can still live upstairs.

52:40 Speaker 2: Yeah.

52:41 Speaker 1: Linda Farrell lived right upstairs and she'd come down all the time and sit in the register. Right. And cause I kind of sat in a register cause that's where my mom was working and coming back and forth. Right. And she'd sit with me cause we were friends. She was upstairs. And then, you know, Tammy Bozak and a bunch of other people, her father, her father was in the fire department. So there's an awful lot of people that were part of that. That's still, don't say to Linda Farrell, um, was supposed to be an unsolved mysteries, but they cut her just like they cut, you know, Titus, the judge.

53:11 Speaker 1: Um, they removed all our documents, you know, and inserted, you know, an individual who had nothing to do with it. And he happened to have my first name. So what was the point of that? Why would you do that? Right. Um, and the only reason I was talking about this, talking about this briefly earlier was that, um, you know, Mr. Warner, um, he's got the long hair. He was in the, He was a custodian working at the Historical Society, answering phones, sweeping floors, whatever, but a volunteer.

53:47 Speaker 1: And so when the Kessel Law Firm came back from Roswell, and you can see the Roswell Daily Record wrote about this in the Roswell Daily Record newspaper about how Roswell played a part in getting our case inducted into U.S. history. So The Roswell Museum opened up the research library to the attorneys to mine for information, which would be sent to the Historical Society and to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the governor's office. But only after it was vetted, signed off by an attorney, this is an authentic document, is that signature?

54:22 Speaker 1: Because copies of what I had for my father from the United Nations, they were just copies. You can't use a copy as a source document to induct something into history. It has to be an authentic document, right? Yeah. Not like, you know, back in the day of Paul Revere and the Boston Tea Party, there's not a whole lot to go on. That's kind of hearsay in some respects. But at the same time, they needed to do this. If we're going to induct this, man, we can't make fools of ourselves. We need a lawyer and this has got to go through a court to say this is a legal document, right?

54:54 Speaker 1: I got helicopters going over my house right now. Anyway.

54:58 Speaker 4: Always fun.

55:00 Speaker 2: Can I ask you a kind of tough question?

55:04 Speaker 1: Yeah.

55:08 Speaker 4: I hesitate to even ask, but.

55:11 Speaker 2: The case gets brought up in the United Nations, and then with your father and what he was doing, do you think maybe, I mean, is there any scenario where Because if what you're saying is genuinely 100% true, and I do believe that you are telling the truth, that you were taken to a facility where what you saw was humans working alongside, or at least in the same vicinity as non-humans, was your father made an example of?

55:52 Speaker 1: Well, The thing is that, um, yes. And first of all, yes, there was government working alongside entities off world biologics.

56:01 Speaker 2: Okay.

56:02 Speaker 1: Just like the vessels we saw were not from us. They were definitely off world. And that's why, uh, the induction letters don't say UFO or UAP. They say off world, you know, because it is off world. A UAP or UFO is just unidentified. It doesn't necessarily mean it's off world.

56:19 Speaker 2: Right.

56:19 Speaker 1: They worded it as off world. Um, So my father, so when my father was killed on October 2nd, it wasn't the same day or it was the same October 2nd date, but it was on the anniversary of it. It was after he had gone out, he had gone, he used to hang out at an Irish pub and mentioned that he had written a book. I think it was called Cornerstone that was going to talk about everything that happened with our case. and what was being made or worked on and, you know, the space race, because they were also making weapons and all kinds of needed the conversations that we overheard.

57:01 Speaker 1: Um, you know, it wasn't just, you know, we're making capacitors, right. I mean, they were making all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And, um, I have to ask, you know, I never really asked him because I didn't expect anything to really happen. However, there is something I want to show you if it's still on my wallet, um, that, um, you know, this was, um,

57:23 Speaker 1: This was tough. I mean, we had FBI come to our house. We had Keypoint Government Solutions. I think I sent you a picture of that if you want to show it, which is part of the Department of Defense. And, you know, they sat me down on the front steps of my, right behind me right there on the steps of my door right there, you know, and interrogated me for about an hour and a half. And so I don't really know what, he shared with Bletchman, to be honest with you, that would have caused that to happen.

57:58 Speaker 1: But these were different times, right? We're going back, you know, 30 years or so. You know, so, um, and he was only 50, I think he was 52 years old, perfectly healthy, you know, attorney, but he had a voice, right. He had a voice and, and he was also part of the historical society. And my mother was on the radio, you know, so we were making waves, I guess, you know, in the wrong way.

58:22 Speaker 2: Yeah.

58:23 Speaker 1: Do you have the image?

58:25 Speaker 2: I'm trying to grab it right now.

58:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, let me put that up.

58:29 Speaker 4: Which color is it?

58:31 Speaker 1: It's the business card from Keypoint Government Solutions when I was visited by the Department of Defense. Yeah. This is another thing. I kind of know when someone's being truthful or not, right? Because you cannot say the things that we did and not have some repercussions. So when people say to me, you know, I had this happen or, you know, or just go off and explain to me these things that I'm like, there's no way that you weren't visited by somebody by now, because I know how this works, right?

59:08 Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in law. I grew up in, you know, politics. I mean, I know how this works. If you can say, you know, if you're revealing sensitive, that's it, sensitive information, you know, you're going to piss somebody off. So this guy from Keypoint Government Solutions, there it is right there, He's a government agent. Interrogated me. Part of the Department of Defense. That's... I still have that business card and I still have it. I mean, that son of a gun right there was at my... He was right at that door.

59:43 Speaker 1: He knocked on my door. Sat me down. Did you live here? Did your father own this property? What was discussed? Why would you do that? Are you savvy with computers? All kinds of stuff. And then if you look at the other side of it, he had me swear to the privacy act of 1974. Like I would never mention it. Of course I'm going to mention it. You know, my father, I lost my father over this and you don't want me to talk about it. And this is another thing. Look where he's from. He came all the way to Colorado.

1:00:15 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:00:15 Speaker 2: Loveland, Colorado. If anyway, if you can't see it.

1:00:18 Speaker 1: Right.

1:00:19 Speaker 2: And then like you said, this record stand, I'm sorry. I was trying to read the back part. The matter concluded with a formal... I'm sorry. I just had it in my head. There was a talk about the back of it.

1:00:36 Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah.

1:00:39 Speaker 2: Did you send a picture of the back?

1:00:42 Speaker 1: I don't know if I did. I don't think so.

1:00:44 Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, so we can... Right.

1:00:49 Speaker 1: So anyway, it's inducted into the Roswell Museum because of It's a connection to General Assembly 33-426. We had FBI at our house, Keypoint Government Solutions. Lost my father over it. We now have a park in memory of our father. And the people that sponsor that park, I'm trying to find a good positive spin to all this, right? Like what, you know, I look at it this way. You know, we have made strides in a way that should open doors for everyone else, right? It should open doors for other people, right?

1:01:26 Speaker 1: And why I'm so careful, again, about how I word things, because if the governor ever really wanted to, or the historical society wanted to backtrack and say, well, you've made a fool of us, so we can't take this anymore. There's a reassurance that that can't happen because it was sealed and went through a circuit. They would have to actually, to fight this, they would have to run it through a court system Because once it's sealed by a circuit court judge, it's kind of done, right? Right.

1:01:58 Speaker 1: So thank God this never happened. I mean, there are things I'd like to expand on, but I don't want to say anything that's going to backfire. Right.

1:02:09 Speaker 4: You don't want to impact the standing of the case.

1:02:13 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:02:15 Speaker 2: But that goes to show who you are as a person. I think it goes to say... It shows. Because there's what I find in this community is that, uh, people are very, very quick to again, insert details and snowball the kid, you know, the story that they start with is, is oftentimes not the story you hear the 10 years later, it's got all these things added in and, um, Because they try to keep it fresh and they try to keep it relative and relevant. And what they're doing is muddying the waters for everybody else.

1:02:55 Speaker 2: And you have not done that. You've actively campaigned to say, hey, people have tried to sensationalize this more than we have. I want to clear the record. I want you to know we never said we were abducted. We were taken somewhere, but never said that we were abducted by aliens.

1:03:15 Speaker 1: Right.

1:03:16 Speaker 2: I find that commendable, honestly.

1:03:17 Speaker 1: Well, thank you because we were face to face, but so, so this is what somebody has mentioned. Um, they said that, that we, we were removed from the car by, uh, one of these trucks, a governmental truck. And that when they brought us, return us to our vehicle, um, there was a, like a Jeep, like an army Jeep and this vehicle, and we were put in, uh, back in the car and his truck filed this Jeep back out. Um, I'm trying to remember how they said it happened. Um, I think they said the, um, right. One was in front of our car.

1:04:01 Speaker 1: One was behind our car and that certain people got out, got back in a Jeep and they, they both went on our way. Um, but, um, The other thing too, I wanted to mention too, like when we came out of this, like right after that, it wasn't like instantaneous, right? You know, I remember coming out of it kind of foggy. My brother was the first one to say that it felt like a sodium pentothal because, you know, my brother was, you know, he became an MP in the Marines. And, you know, so we've been talking.

1:04:32 Speaker 1: So we go back and I'm jumping all over the place right now. That's all right. Basically, I'm trying to focus on what really happened and with the Jeeps and the vehicles and the army personnel, and then my brother going into Marines and talking to me like, you know, this is what would have happened back then. And we do our research as to, and then of course, with everything going on at the mine field and the magnesium that was mined for the atom bomb came from our back door. I mean, it's, it's, you know, you can't say we're going to dismiss all this.

1:05:08 Speaker 1: and just say you were extracted by aliens, right? Because nobody in the area believes that. They believe, no, dude, you, military was everywhere. You saw something you weren't supposed to see. You were at the wrong place at the wrong time. And military was there because we've got an underground base. You got the lime mines. You've got, you had a house, a barn where people would pull into it. The back would open up and you went underground. I mean, that's also, and you chat GBTI. I mean, it's right there.

1:05:37 Speaker 1: So that was all happening. So The historians and everything are like, dude, we remember this. That was all part of that frigging Cold War bullshit you were a part of, right? That's what they say. And it's true. I mean, it was all part of the Cold War. And we said things, my father said things at the UN that he shouldn't have said or shared.

1:05:57 Speaker 2: And as a result, unfortunately. Right.

1:06:01 Speaker 1: But now we have a park in his memory. And ancient aliens paid for the entrance sign.

1:06:08 Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. They're great.

1:06:10 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:06:10 Speaker 2: People give them a lot of shit because, you know, it's ancient aliens. And it's like, you know, people just like, oh, it's a TV show on the History Channel, you know.

1:06:21 Speaker 4: But they actually do. They do help out a lot.

1:06:24 Speaker 2: They do.

1:06:24 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:06:25 Speaker 2: That's great.

1:06:27 Speaker 1: They donated a center plaque. Rita King, the daughter of B.B. King.

1:06:33 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:06:34 Speaker 1: They have a bench there. Um, the family of Steve Ray Vaughn, cause I was friends with, um, the Vaughn family when I, I played their guitar when I was in Hartford at the Agora ballroom. Wow. I met Jimmy Vaughn. Yeah. I used to be the stage manager, uh, for the Agora. I love that. Probably the Agora maybe. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I worked with Bloyster Colt and stuff back then. I'm still friends with him today.

1:06:58 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:06:59 Speaker 1: I still, I had, um, one of them on my show recently and I'm friends with Dokken, you know, those, you know, I had the drummer of Dokken on my show. Anyway, so, yeah. So I, yeah.

1:07:11 Speaker 2: So getting back, not to, because I, again, I love just having open discussion, but did you, after the incident, after the incident, when you guys come to, you had made, you said you guys were, your mother and your grandmother were in the wrong sides.

1:07:33 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:07:36 Speaker 4: And other things were, it just didn't seem.

1:07:39 Speaker 2: So essentially what you're saying is, you know, is you were taken, you were put back, but they didn't like, they didn't take as they didn't take notes on who was in what seat.

1:07:54 Speaker 1: Apparently because my grandmother was the oldest, maybe she was driving the driver.

1:07:59 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.

1:08:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. You got it.

1:08:02 Speaker 2: But, Now, forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but was it the fact that your grandmother actually didn't like to drive or was getting a little bit older and couldn't see at night?

1:08:13 Speaker 1: No, apparently a lot of women back in the mid-60s just did not drive. It was like, you know, they stayed home, they cooked and, you know, gardened, right, cleaned the house, you know, saved up for an Electrolux vacuum, whatever it was, right? And then the husband did everything, right? But she did have a license, of course, but she actually didn't have a car. And that station wagon was a big vehicle for her to turn around. And so when she tried to find a spot to turn around on this narrow dirt road, because the area where it happened, it wasn't really a road.

1:08:52 Speaker 1: It's never been a road. You can't pass each other. It's like a, it was for emergency vehicles and horse and buggy. Right. And so you really was nowhere for a, so you kind of turn around in a Falfa field or something near a driveway or something. But yeah. And then went back over the back over there. Have you seen the pictures of that bridge? What it used to look like? I mean, I'm surprised he held the weight of the car. Now it looks a lot better, but that's not what it looked like 50 years ago.

1:09:26 Speaker 2: Did anyone make a note that you guys are in the wrong place?

1:09:30 Speaker 4: Did anyone go, wait a second, mom, why are.

1:09:34 Speaker 2: You in the... Something's wrong here. Were you guys immediately kind of....

1:09:41 Speaker 1: My grandmother, because why am I in a driver's seat?

1:09:50 Speaker 1: That was really hard for her to deal with. I don't drive. Suddenly I'm in a pilot seat. I'm not a pilot.

1:09:57 Speaker 2: I can't even imagine this. You see lights. You see a craft. The pressure of the car feels like you can't breathe. You're about to pass out. Wrapped in cellophane. You knock out. Then you're in a hangar. And then you wake up, you're in the wrong seats. And, you know, probably at first, you know, an easy mind or a mind would try to rationalize and say, okay, something bad happened. Like not something bad, but like, you know, carbon monoxide, whatever, right?

1:10:39 Speaker 1: Like we all- Something extraordinary.

1:10:42 Speaker 2: Right.

1:10:42 Speaker 4: We're all subject to something.

1:10:44 Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's merely coincidence.

1:10:48 Speaker 4: It's nothing. Had you guys, had they put them in the right seats.

1:10:52 Speaker 2: But that little detail is, it just nags at you.

1:10:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, telling, right? And you just know, like, the ignition is off. It was running, right? And nobody's going to walk down that road. I mean, it was in the middle of nowhere. It's not like somebody reached in. and turned off the car, but we were gone. We didn't get back till almost 11 o'clock. So we were gone almost two and a half hours.

1:11:17 Speaker 3: Whoa.

1:11:18 Speaker 1: But I know, I'm pretty sure we were down near the, the quarry, you know, that's a big underground area there. There are Nike missile sites, you know, this Minuteman missile sites. Yeah. You had the NORAD towers in Dalton, right? The case got a classification, the project blue book, you've got a CE1 classification. It's not mentioned in project blue book, but the report is there. It's on the website. Um, My mom actually reported it to the police department when she got home. She reported it to Eddie Gulotta's father, Santiago or something like that.

1:11:50 Speaker 1: That's also documented. That information went to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts as well. There's a paper trail that's just there. It's from the newspaper articles to the you know, going to the UN, you know, passing, I took a polygraph test. I had to do all that. Did you ever, I sit down with Tim Burchard a lot, you know, Congressman Tim Burchard's like practically my neighbor. We go to lunch now and then at the Concord Marina.

1:12:22 Speaker 2: He's amazing. I love that guy.

1:12:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I've got his cell phone number, you know.

1:12:29 Speaker 2: Did you guys ever get checked out by like a doctor?

1:12:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. So my brother, my brother had two puncture marks behind his ear And two more in his chest. It looked like almost like a snake bite. There's a medical record for it. And the doctor had said, you know, that the only spot that would make sense for those puncture marks was if you wanted to extract T cells from the, oh my God, from the thymus gland. And that is what you would need to develop your immune system. And so, um, yeah, it was, um, and here's another thing, like the question I, we weren't on a craft, you know?

1:13:18 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Um, the place that we were, I mean, just, just the hallway that I remember seeing this big round empty area, like it was a big circle. It was empty. And, and there were these gray markings on the ground, right. On the floor or whatever. And it was like a Y configuration. over a circle so you have a circle and then there was like a y and one part of the y the on the bottom part was like a four-lane highway it was that wide and the other the other two right were like a single car road and then this big circle area with gray markings on the floor and um and that area alone was you know almost the size of the craft itself So, right.

1:14:08 Speaker 1: So it was huge. Something else I want to mention too, like this feeling that we had that you've commented on this like vacuum of silence, right? Vacuum and then nothing. That was not just felt by us. That was felt over the town of Sheffield. That was reported to the police department. So whatever was, you know, emanating, right? Wasn't, just local to us it covered the community and yeah and you can google that i mean it's out there um and that's where i say you know when people say oh it happened in great barrington are you kidding me it's all sheffield man the entire town of sheffield felt that the underground explosions are from who knows where they're coming.

1:14:56 Speaker 2: From yeah i don't know who is saying it's coming from great barrington but i'm gonna i'm gonna trust the guy.

1:15:03 Speaker 1: That was there Yeah, so many people say, oh, you know, I was part of that. You know, no, you weren't. Right. I mean, look at the governor's citations. Have you read where the governor rescinded it, right? It was written in error. Did you see that?

1:15:21 Speaker 4: That was the one you sent, right?

1:15:23 Speaker 1: Well, I sent you both because it wasn't written in error and it wasn't rescinded. And this is that same Terry Cowgill individual who Wanted to put in a satellite dish, asked my father to help him way back when in the 90s to get it passed, but it was too close to the road. You know, I thought my dad could help him push it through. But my father's like, no, if you do it, everyone's going to do it. And I can't play favoritism. And he's still pissed off to this day and, you know, whatever. But yeah, that nonsense.

1:15:50 Speaker 1: But he wrote the article, said that the governor rescinded it. It was written in error. It had an error in it because it was missing the date of incident. It didn't have the September 1st, 1969 date in there. So any proclamation, any citation has to have a date of incident. Right. And so they amended it and sent it to me. It wasn't rescinded. It wasn't backpedaled. And then he wrote an article saying I was the one who tried to install a 5,000-pound monument in the town of Sheffield. Yeah, like I'm going to leave Tennessee.

1:16:24 Speaker 1: I'm going to drive all the way to Massachusetts and somehow construct a 5,000-pound monument And then what, move it into, come on, you know?

1:16:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, right.

1:16:34 Speaker 1: No one in their right mind even thinks they could do something like that. And by the way, the town of Sheffield admitted on an open news broadcast that they're the ones who installed it. But this, you know, Terry Cowgill incident, you know, made the news. Tom Murray did this. No, he didn't, you know? Right. He constantly says things that aren't true and it gets picked up. And then you've got, you know, this Tom Warner character with the same first name as me who was never part of it. You know, he wasn't.

1:17:02 Speaker 1: He just wasn't. Which is crazy to me. What's that?

1:17:08 Speaker 2: That fucks with me because I did... You know, I was so misguided that I reached out to him.

1:17:15 Speaker 1: Not good.

1:17:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, originally.

1:17:17 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, my attorney sent him another letter. He's already got a letter from my attorney years ago.

1:17:23 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm... I haven't heard around. I hadn't seen him or heard from him in years now.

1:17:33 Speaker 4: So I'm not sure if he kind of.

1:17:35 Speaker 1: Picture this, man. All right. So I'm talking to myself right now. I can't see you. There you are. Okay. So picture this, right? You're the governor in your historical society and you go out of your way to do this because of what happened with my father and how he had connections in town and they wanted to do something nice for him, but they were very concerned If they were going to, you know, this was going to, you know, hurt their chances, you know, or whatever for, I'm sure they all had aspirations, right?

1:18:05 Speaker 1: They didn't want this to blow up in their face. And now, then you got this guy running around that says that, you know, I was running in place and then I was held down by this beam of light. He's standing there like Travis Walton. He wears a hat like I do. He wears the glasses like I do. He mimics a lot of things. now he's running around saying that he helps deer across the street and that he can talk to animals and that he knows this alien that he met at a um that he yeah that he that he met at a wait a minute an art show and the alien dropped his cell phone number in his backpack and so when he got home there was another message at his house to call the alien on the cell phone.

1:18:54 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, and I constantly have to say to the historical society and stuff, I never, that's not me that said that. I never said that. Or the historic, or the, you know, Roswell, the board members, you know, hey, did you, no, that wasn't me. And so you couple that with Calgill's article, right, about I'm installing, I don't know, monuments in Massachusetts and all this kind of stuff. Now it just looks like a mess. And all I'm trying to do is respect Massachusetts because this is true history to Massachusetts.

1:19:31 Speaker 1: You know, when this all comes out, that we're not alone and it's like finally out there, whether it's three years from now, 10 years, whatever it is, maybe it's tomorrow. Massachusetts will have made history themselves. And Sheffield deserves their history. You've got Stockbridge. They're known for so much, right? So is a lot of these towns, right? Sheffield deserves their history. And if it gets turned around and muddied, and now some other towns getting credit for something that didn't even happen there, it's no wonder that the town of Sheffield has a acts to grind with me once in a while i am trying to preserve the truth right i mean my park is in sheffield for a reason my park's not in great barrington the only reason great barrington got involved in it is because they needed our case to be more profound and by you know packaging it with our customers, which were Berkshire County residents from larger communities working on the space race, it was easier to say, look, we're going to, we're going to induct a neighboring communities incident because we were part of it too.

1:20:46 Speaker 1: And we've got the larger historical society. That's all it was. It's not because it happened there.

1:20:53 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:20:53 Speaker 3: Yeah.

1:20:55 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, I just met him again. He came over my house because we're filming a documentary with Avi Loeb. And they interviewed him about that. Yeah, that was a 0.01. I mean, I think I passed that pretty well.

1:21:13 Speaker 3: I was on the, what was it?

1:21:24 Speaker 1: The behavior panel on YouTube. They had me, they interviewed me over the phone and past that too i mean it this case is a real case i mean it's i'm not sensationalizing anything i could tell you more um i mean some of the activity in the area um something okay so you want to hear some weird things that were also happening there was a black this black dog was seen all over the place they used to call it magic dog in a day you know berkshire's magic doggy you drive down a road you see this large black dog and then you drive down i'm quarter mile again and you see the same dog and they nicknamed it the magic dog but if you search um i think the triangle area in mass um what was it bridgewater triangle there's a mention of it there too well that was seen all over town oh jesus that's that's that's it's water.

1:22:21 Speaker 2: Yeah i want to ask you something about that after.

1:22:27 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, Burchett.

1:22:29 Speaker 4: I just want to go a few.

1:22:30 Speaker 1: Oh, you do have these. Yeah.

1:22:33 Speaker 4: That was when you got in the wreck.

1:22:36 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:22:38 Speaker 2: So this is the, I'm trying to find that.

1:22:41 Speaker 1: That's good right there. Yeah, that's.

1:22:44 Speaker 2: This one?

1:22:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you read that, I mean, that's, I'm holding the UAP conferences for Roswell, disclosure conferences.

1:22:54 Speaker 2: Right. Wow.

1:22:57 Speaker 1: Yeah. Roswell or the museum assisted the state in inducting our families incident. And that's why they've got a bench in my park too. So the Roswell museum sponsors my park and has a bench there.

1:23:13 Speaker 2: It's amazing.

1:23:15 Speaker 1: It is. And so if you, if you allow this nonsense, it just upsets everybody that backs you.

1:23:24 Speaker 2: Yes.

1:23:25 Speaker 1: Right. Hold on to this right here. So the bottom one, if you look, one was written and the top one's October, the bottom one is November. If you look at the October one, there's no date.

1:23:41 Speaker 2: The bottom one has.

1:23:46 Speaker 1: September 1st, 1969. No, no, on the bottom one, go up. See that right there in the middle of the, in the body of that letter, September 1st, 1969.

1:23:57 Speaker 2: Oh, okay.

1:23:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. Toplin didn't have that.

1:24:02 Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

1:24:03 Speaker 1: So I got a call from, you know, the, the historical society about the, you know, about this letter from the Commonwealth. And I said, don't use it right now. Don't post it anywhere because there's, there's an error in it that doesn't have a date of incident. And so of course, Calgill gets wind of that, that local reporter and goes, Oh no, it was written in error. No, it wasn't. It had an error. You see how all these things compile and you're like.

1:24:32 Speaker 2: You see what happens when you change one word in the sentence and you move it here instead?

1:24:37 Speaker 4: It seems like this case has been.

1:24:39 Speaker 2: This case is people are adding and subtracting words and changing the story based on their own needs and narratives. Yeah.

1:24:52 Speaker 1: Well, here's the other thing. This is a very serious pocket in Massachusetts regarding the Cold War.

1:24:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%. And I vouch for that, not because I was there and knew, but because I've done so much research into it.

1:25:09 Speaker 1: And so when something's real like that, and there's things to hide. So, you know, I believe that there's a lot more going on in Sheffield underground. Did you know that the FBI combed my park a couple years ago?

1:25:24 Speaker 2: No way.

1:25:26 Speaker 1: Google, if you've got a minute, you can do this, right?

1:25:28 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:25:29 Speaker 1: Just Google FBI Sheffield. I think it was, I don't know, maybe three years ago. FBI Sheffield combing property. They were all over my park. They had backhoes and everything.

1:25:51 Speaker 2: So you said what year?

1:25:54 Speaker 1: I'm going to guess it was like three years ago. But if you, it should be, it should pull up. FBI.

1:26:04 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got it.

1:26:06 Speaker 1: You got it?

1:26:07 Speaker 2: Holy shit.

1:26:09 Speaker 1: That's my park, dude. That's my park.

1:26:13 Speaker 4: Switch this, guys.

1:26:15 Speaker 2: Holy shit. This is a legitimate article that I'm about to pull up here.

1:26:21 Speaker 1: Like I said, man.

1:26:25 Speaker 4: This is fucking crazy.

1:26:35 Speaker 2: FBI, police in Massachusetts searching field in Sheffield.

1:26:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my freaking park on the right. That top picture on the right is my park. That's my park. Yeah, that's my park. What? That's the backside of my park. Matter of fact, this tree line, if you go back. Yeah.

1:27:00 Speaker 1: Is that not crazy?

1:27:01 Speaker 2: This is. And what was the reasoning that they gave?

1:27:05 Speaker 1: Go back one. That's not my park there, but there's no concrete in my park, but where you just went, go back one. If you don't mind. That one right there, that tree line that you're seeing right there. Yeah. That's where my park ends. And that tree line behind it, that ground, that's where the incident was.

1:27:26 Speaker 2: Oh.

1:27:27 Speaker 1: That's actually, yeah. Right about where the red thing or the car, that's about where my mom, there's a telephone pole over there, right in there somewhere within probably 20 yards of that is where my mother stopped and we saw the UFO back in the day.

1:27:43 Speaker 2: This is amazing, man. So what did the FBI, what was their reasoning for this?

1:27:49 Speaker 1: They were quiet about it. They called me. I talked to them. They actually, I was in the room I'm in right now when they called me.

1:27:56 Speaker 3: I have, I have it on.

1:27:57 Speaker 1: I recorded the, you know what? I recorded it on my phone. I can actually look for it and send it to you later. Yeah. Not today.

1:28:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, please.

1:28:06 Speaker 1: So check this out. Right. So think about this for a minute. I'm not trying to beat this into the ground here, but you had the right, the nuclear issue. stuff going on like two miles from our diner right underground the lime mines you have the the um what was that their uh Manhattan project it's tied to the Manhattan project the goodwill message was spawned by conversations in our diner like because our conversation came out about the UFO and they're like my mom's like, well, maybe what if you find something?

1:28:39 Speaker 1: How would you, right? I mean, that conversation comes up. Let's leave a calling card. Let's leave a calling card.

1:28:47 Speaker 2: It makes total sense that someone like your mother would say to a bunch of guys working in that industry, I had this encounter. Or we had this encounter.

1:29:00 Speaker 1: And they're reading the newspaper with my mom.

1:29:02 Speaker 2: Right. And they're going, you know, it's like, it makes sense that that would be spawned by someone who was an experiencer.

1:29:08 Speaker 1: Right.

1:29:09 Speaker 2: Right.

1:29:09 Speaker 1: And all they had to do was get it approved. They go, let's get all this other countries to sign it or whatever. So it was.

1:29:17 Speaker 2: That's amazing.

1:29:18 Speaker 1: Right.

1:29:19 Speaker 2: Right.

1:29:20 Speaker 1: And so then you've got the governor's citations. You've got the historical society citation. It goes to the United Nations. My father loses his life. We've got the NORAD towers, the Nike missile sites, the Minuteman missile sites, a CE classification. I mean, there's this CE classification. And then, again, they give us a park in Sheffield, and yet you've got these asshats going, I was part of it in Great Barrier Reef, but they don't know any of it.

1:29:50 Speaker 2: And they're introducing these sensational claims that end.

1:29:54 Speaker 1: Up muddying the water. It had nothing to do with it. Yeah.

1:29:58 Speaker 2: So I need, I want to ask you something. This guy, not this guy, this guy, this is Tom Warner, right?

1:30:10 Speaker 3: Warner.

1:30:11 Speaker 2: Now, if I'm not, if I'm remembering correctly, I remember watching a documentary.

1:30:19 Speaker 4: It may well be this, whatever he's being filmed in for.

1:30:22 Speaker 2: This, where he talks about like seeing a friend on the craft.

1:30:29 Speaker 4: That's that one, right?

1:30:30 Speaker 2: Yep.

1:30:31 Speaker 1: And she says, and she says, I don't remember seeing him.

1:30:35 Speaker 4: I was going to say so, but, but is she lying too?

1:30:44 Speaker 1: My mom used to make Melanie Kirchdorfer sandwiches back in the sixties. She did, was part of our diner.

1:30:52 Speaker 2: Okay.

1:30:52 Speaker 1: My, my mother, um, used to make her Swiss cheese sandwiches with sauteed onions.

1:30:59 Speaker 2: Okay. That's an interesting choice.

1:31:02 Speaker 1: And she remembers it. And so, you know, Melanie, this is, this is where you got to, if you really know what you're doing, you can pick up on things. Right. Tom Warner says, I never knew Melanie until we did the show. Right. Which by the way, he didn't start talking about it until after the show came out. There's no interviews before that, nothing. And he worked at the Historical Society. He'd be mentioned on something. I mean, this is just common sense stuff. And not to mention, I know, because he sat there when we were vetting with the attorneys.

1:31:32 Speaker 1: And at the time, he was like, oh, my God, I had no idea. I didn't ever heard of this before. So, you know, he shared that with the attorneys in the Historical Society. That's why he's not on anything. Anyway, yeah, he's right. He's tried to be Maine's whatever, right? They call the Historical Society. And he goes, yeah, I'm Tom. And stuff like that. But anyway, so he goes on. He speaks a lot about how I didn't know anybody until this happened. And yet, even in Unsolved Mysteries, he says, well, I looked in her eyes and, you know, I knew, you know, he connected with Melanie.

1:32:08 Speaker 2: Right.

1:32:09 Speaker 1: And so how could you connect with Melanie if you didn't know her till? So Melanie Kirchdorfer, I'm not passing judgment. She came into our diner. She was older than me. She used to date this guy, Neil Brandt. And I like Melanie. You know, she donated a picnic table to her bench, you know, like a bench sitting area.

1:32:27 Speaker 4: Yeah.

1:32:28 Speaker 1: And yeah, she's okay.

1:32:32 Speaker 2: You just don't support the idea that he... Well, there are some.

1:32:37 Speaker 1: Things that get shared and I'm like, like she says, she was struck directly by lightning three times and survived. I'm like, yeah, you know, that's tough. Yeah, that's a tough one as well. That's a tough.

1:32:49 Speaker 2: that's a yeah that's a that the either first off being struck by lightning three fucking times.

1:32:56 Speaker 1: Yeah is and so things like that so i i go well i do know for a fact you've been in our diner you're part of that you were part of the sheffield diner scene which is where this so yes i i think she was part.

1:33:09 Speaker 2: Of it i do okay okay.

1:33:12 Speaker 1: Um but warner i think used her to connect with her um and as far as the show goes, the only one that I would say hoaxed the whole frigging thing is Warner. Um, and again, let me just recap for those who may not have heard this earlier.

1:33:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, please.

1:33:29 Speaker 1: You've got a historical society that contacted me. I live a thousand miles away, right? I'm in, I'm, I'm outside. I'm in Concord. I live in Concord, Tennessee, right?

1:33:40 Speaker 2: Ah, yeah. I was going to say, give a vague.

1:33:43 Speaker 1: Well, I don't care. I mean, I'm easy to find. I don't care. Um, And I don't have anything to hide. You want to talk to me, knock on my door. You know, put it in the mailbox. I don't care.

1:33:52 Speaker 4: You guys are old school.

1:33:53 Speaker 2: I love it.

1:33:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't care. I'm not, who knows how much longer I'm going to live anyway, right? I may be murdered or choking on chicken bone or victim of a drive-by shooting. No, no, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. Anyway, where I'm going with this. You know, if you've got the historical society in Boston and you've got the historical site in Great Barrington and the governor's office, all working in conjunction to see if you can do something with this, provided you can show source documents, you've got credible people, and you have a lawyer involved, right, that can sign off on everything, then you run it through a court system, and you get backed by the Roswell Museum, and Tom passes his polygraph test, we will do something with it.

1:34:36 Speaker 1: So that's what you're looking for, source documents, credible people, and the whole bit, and yet you've got Mr. Warner sweeping your floors right next to you, right? Or answering a phone now and then. And he's not mentioned on a damn thing. He's omitted from everything, not a mention. What does that tell you? And so when the show came in, after he was sitting there with, so our attorney, right, had stopped in and she had files. She's got all these files and she's given them to Debbie Averman, the director of the, you know, the Great Barren Historical Society.

1:35:14 Speaker 1: And they're like, I like this. What do you think? I checked the signatures. I know these people are the real deal. And then you've got Heather Kovar, who was the Emmy Award winning news anchor from Albany. She was involved in this back in the day. She's actually my co-host on my podcast now because she's part of this as well. And then, you know, all these people that are so careful in what they do. And then the show comes out. Warner leaves the historical society because he knows nobody wants him on the show because he's just going to make everyone look stupid.

1:35:50 Speaker 1: That was a bold move on my part to say that, but let's face it. And he goes to his house and they film him there. And then he says, I got this painting that I drew as a child. He never mentioned this before. Try to find an interview with Tom Warner before 2020. I'm not trying to dog the guy, but with everything that I've talked about tonight, you can see why I don't like this getting any more derailed. I mean, this is a true case. It's history to Massachusetts. I was part of it, but it's Massachusetts history, and it's certainly Sheffield's history.

1:36:26 Speaker 1: And the Linda Farrells that were part of this, and my mother, my family, friends from the area, even Pine Island Farms, who was gracious enough to allow me to have this area to turn into a park.

1:36:42 Speaker 2: Right.

1:36:42 Speaker 1: Because that is ground zero.

1:36:44 Speaker 3: Right.

1:36:44 Speaker 1: If ground zero is Sheffield, you know, come on. Um, anyway, so again, um, you know, I, I don't know, I'm almost 70 years old. Um, I just want to, um, do the right thing before my, my day's up, you know, and, um, and I, I don't, I want to make sure that I, you know, uh, I don't leave anything unturned and I'm, you know, I've not written a book. I'm not making money on this. I don't sell anything, you know. I pay for the park. I donate money to the park. I pay for the park.

1:37:25 Speaker 2: You know what? Now more than ever, I think I should say this. I think I should say this. You know what, Tom? That is what I respect most about you. I'm only muting your mic so that everyone can dial into what I'm about to say. He's right. He isn't writing a book. Not that he couldn't have. Not that he shouldn't have. But he understands the fact, the optics, and what he really wants is, and of course, I'm sort of speaking for him and he can correct this, but That's what this topic has become. It's a perpetual pay to play, pay for access.

1:38:24 Speaker 2: It's the monetization of the pursuit. of truth and if you put up any of these cases like that against what Tom has done with the UFO park not right not you know making money off of the community you know not you know a flying private jets to conferences and doing all that kind of stuff.

1:38:55 Speaker 4: Not that he doesn't go to conferences, but.

1:38:58 Speaker 2: Again, there are people that literally do nothing but that kind of stuff. And again, not to say that you can't do those things, but it needs to be pointed out that when someone like Tom was nothing to gain and has never tried to gain the system or the people in the community, don't we owe it to him to at least hear him out and to support where we can and to not muddy the fucking waters and to not make this guy have to live defending a moment that is so tethered to his family and his life Is it too much to ask?

1:39:52 Speaker 4: It's wild to me, Tom.

1:39:54 Speaker 1: Sorry. No, not at all. I really appreciate that because that's exactly how I feel about it. Um, I was told to write a memoir, you know, I document things that happen. So somewhere there'll be record of it. Um, but you're right. I, I'm not trying to capitalize on anything. I mean, um, if anything, I'm just trying to, you know, preserve it for, for you guys. Right. Um, Because otherwise what's going to happen when disclosure is finally here, if this is turned into a circus, they're not going to look at it as seriously as it should be.

1:40:28 Speaker 1: And some other case is going to get the headlines for being the first case to be deemed historically true. And Sheffield is going to lose their own history. Yeah.

1:40:35 Speaker 2: Well, I, if, if, if you're not there, which I, again, I'm not trying to say anything by that. I'm just saying I'm 30, uh, So I have, I hope I have a long time left to see this thing through.

1:40:50 Speaker 1: I'll pass all the copies to you.

1:40:51 Speaker 3: Yeah.

1:40:52 Speaker 1: Yeah. Please.

1:40:53 Speaker 4: I'm happy to.

1:40:55 Speaker 1: Avi Loeb has worked with me on his documentary because he's from Massachusetts too.

1:40:59 Speaker 3: Yeah.

1:40:59 Speaker 2: He's actually, uh, he's been on the show a couple of times.

1:41:02 Speaker 4: Uh, he, I, I, I've been to his home.

1:41:05 Speaker 1: Um, yeah, yeah.

1:41:07 Speaker 2: Uh, and, uh, he lives in Lexington. I won't say, you know, where, but we just filmed there. So, yeah. Um, So maybe we could, maybe we could, you and I could, you know, get together and stuff. Can I ask you some, some questions?

1:41:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, please.

1:41:27 Speaker 2: Well, first off, I want to ask, are you a religious man?

1:41:33 Speaker 1: Am I what?

1:41:34 Speaker 2: Religious.

1:41:35 Speaker 1: No, but my mom, my, no, not at all. Because I felt I used to carry the cross back in the day. at our church. And I just felt like with what I, um, you know, experience, I felt like I was lied to, but my mother, my mother is, my mother still writes, um, articles for her church here in Tennessee.

1:41:57 Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

1:41:57 Speaker 4: So your mother is alive.

1:41:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. She's upstairs right now.

1:42:01 Speaker 2: You're not going anywhere anytime soon.

1:42:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, she, um, she, uh, had heart surgery as stent put in, pacemaker, and I'm like, I got room. I'll keep an eye on you.

1:42:16 Speaker 2: I lost my mother, unfortunately. I had a sighting when I was 12 of a silver disc. I grew up in Billerica, right next to Hanscom Air Force Base in Bedford, but there was also a Raytheon headquarters right behind my house. And again, you know, and then when my mother passed, I was in the room, she died on four, three, two, one. And I saw something in the room, man. I don't, I, I don't understand if it was just me projecting, you know, I mean.

1:43:01 Speaker 1: People will tell you in hospice that when, um, yes, that they weigh two pounds lighter or pound, whatever lighter.

1:43:09 Speaker 2: And And that's the soul, right? Leaving the body.

1:43:11 Speaker 1: Yeah. The soul has mass. Right.

1:43:14 Speaker 4: And it makes absolute sense.

1:43:17 Speaker 2: And it's ironic that you bring up a hospice nurse because I actually didn't speak about what I saw in that room with any of my siblings. It just didn't feel appropriate. But I did pull the hospice nurse aside.

1:43:36 Speaker 2: And she mentioned exactly what you just said. So she didn't, but yeah. And the reason I ask if you're religious is, I mean, I used to be, do you think there's light? Okay. So I'm not religious either, but I also think that there's that something happens after this life.

1:43:58 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I think so too, because we're obviously a soul has mass and a soul, you know, this is just a shell of.

1:44:04 Speaker 2: A body, you know, the receiver to the transmission. I mean, not to the, transmission signals that are consciousness, right?

1:44:15 Speaker 1: It's kind of like a car gets a new engine, you know, we, whether we're reincarnated or whatever, but there's gotta be something. I mean, I don't think that, first of all, I don't, people ask me a lot of these questions about kind of what you're alluding to. And, you know, what do you, what do you think this is all about? You know, where do we go? What happens when you pass? And, and I was hit by a tractor trailer truck and on December 19th, 2012. And I'm sorry, 2006. And I didn't wake up for three days.

1:44:45 Speaker 1: And I remember how I woke up. I remember.

1:44:48 Speaker 4: Oh, can you please tell us?

1:44:50 Speaker 1: Looking at water. I was like I was in the clouds. And I was looking down in the ocean. And I started getting closer and closer and closer and closer to the ocean. And when I was relatively, you know, you could spot a boat or something right close. kind of slowed down and kind of hovered there for a minute. And this boat came into view and I started to head towards the boat. And then I land on the back of this boat and it was a Viking ship. And, and I yelled out, you know, you know, where's the captain for some reason.

1:45:30 Speaker 1: And, and when I did that, I woke up in the hospital. I had all my friends around me. I was, you know, I, two broken ankles, a bright fracture, right knee. My leg was up. My deep vein from bias lost my circulation. They sold my eye in right here, um, knock my teeth out. I still got sewed that in. I had all kinds of back issues, back surgeries. Um, that was a mess. And that's, um, when I sold my company, I sold Miami models and to Anderson green entertainment. And then, um, you know, moved to Tennessee and start over and, and, um, maybe going to change the season a little bit, you know?

1:46:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. But I remember the strangest thing because I, I kind of, I was out of it. And yet I remember how I woke up from being unconscious. And you know, I got, if I got a minute, I want to share one more thing with you.

1:46:25 Speaker 2: So you have all the time you need, man.

1:46:27 Speaker 1: Okay. Cause you said eight 30 coming up on the.

1:46:30 Speaker 2: This has been two years in the making. We go when we go till we want.

1:46:35 Speaker 1: I got extra time. Okay, so my philosophy, right? And I don't know why I feel so strongly about it, but I do. So we have had, correct me if I'm wrong, but we've had what, five global extinctions?

1:46:49 Speaker 4: Yes, that's what they say.

1:46:51 Speaker 1: Five, right?

1:46:53 Speaker 2: Right.

1:46:53 Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah. So in theory, this planet has been wiped out five times. Not once, not twice, five. And yet, do you know how many species we have here right now?

1:47:11 Speaker 2: I mean, hundreds of millions.

1:47:15 Speaker 1: Nine million. So you have nine million species.

1:47:19 Speaker 2: Nine million confirmed, right?

1:47:21 Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's more. That's why I say, what's nine million in one if you're a Bigfoot enthusiast or whatever? Why is everyone so uptight about that? Anyway, nine million species, right? And so out of the nine million... there would have had to have been couples, right? So you can't have, you know, one tiger, one female tiger, right? Right. And expect that to work because eventually they would all be inbred and they would have died off anyway.

1:47:53 Speaker 2: Right.

1:47:54 Speaker 1: Right? Right. And I got the nine million from Wiki. So we have millions, millions of species that are healthy. They're not inbred. which means that there would have had to been maybe five or six males, five or six females for each species. And it would have had to been where they would survive. You don't see polar bears coming from Africa no they never would have made it right they would have been somebody's lunch right so polar bears would have had to have been where they needed to be in siberia whatever right yeah so everything was it seems to me that earth was stocked Because the life never would have flourished the way that it did.

1:48:38 Speaker 1: And even the dinosaurs, people don't realize that there were three waves of dinosaurs.

1:48:43 Speaker 2: Right.

1:48:43 Speaker 1: The first wave of dinosaur came and basically was extinct. The second, same thing. T-Rex was like the last dinosaur we ever had, but the most famous, right? But the thing, the point I'm trying to make, five global extinctions, 9 million healthy species. I've always said that Earth is our galaxy's arc. When people are so worried about, oh, the aliens, religious people, fallen angels. No. Earth was brought here to be preserved. Otherwise, we wouldn't have all the species we do. Right? They came from somewhere.

1:49:21 Speaker 1: They didn't just, ta-da.

1:49:23 Speaker 3: Right?

1:49:23 Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. It's a comparison I make to say, like,

1:49:33 Speaker 2: how is a sea turtle... When born at the top of a beach, it's experienced zero.

1:49:42 Speaker 4: Life, yet it knows.

1:49:45 Speaker 1: To get in the water.

1:49:46 Speaker 2: It needs to get to that water as quick as possible. Doesn't know exactly why yet until he starts looking around and seeing his brothers and sisters getting scooped up, right?

1:49:59 Speaker 1: And that's the.

1:50:00 Speaker 2: First time he sees the prey. But his instincts took, it took, take, they take right over. And it leads me to believe that maybe that's why we have deja vu and instinct is because there is some sort of re reincarnation. I don't think people come back as bugs or anything like that, because that would like for us to have deja vu and instinct, we need to be the same thing each time. Right.

1:50:29 Speaker 4: At least in my view.

1:50:31 Speaker 1: And oh, yeah, because your instinct is going to come from your previous life.

1:50:35 Speaker 4: Exactly.

1:50:36 Speaker 2: So you could be a male or female of your species that, that, that can vary, but I don't think, you know, you or I are going to come back as, as ants, right? Yeah. Well, because an ant has also, and people don't realize this, but ants, they don't live long, but if our reincarnation model is, is accurate, first off, they experience time differently. All ants, Every species perceives time a little differently. And yes, their lifespan is shorter, but that allows them to have more of them. If our reincarnation model is accurate, of course.

1:51:18 Speaker 2: And you know how strong they are?

1:51:21 Speaker 4: They can hold five times their body weight.

1:51:25 Speaker 2: That's insane.

1:51:27 Speaker 1: A 60-pound ant could carry a Volvo across the street.

1:51:32 Speaker 2: Speaking, I don't know why I subliminally brought up ants, but I did. And that's what, so when you saw, now, given, and people talk about reptilians, like David Grush talked about on Rogan, and has been talked about in the UFO lore for a long, long time. But say the reset didn't happen. Do you think it's unimaginable or impossible or improbable that one of the dinosaur species would given 65 million extra years of evolution or, or adaption, whatever it is, or, or, you know, gene editing or, you know, whatever's happening to, to.

1:52:26 Speaker 4: Speed life or speed evolution.

1:52:31 Speaker 2: Self-awareness and and like true intelligence because of course dolphins are intelligent other species are intelligent in their own way they have talents yes we have we have something different we have a self-awareness we have we we have opposable thumbs we're able.

1:52:54 Speaker 1: And our our our brain size i think every species has something unique to themselves i mean uh if we could tinker and I think that's part of what we are part of and why I think younger children get abducted because they're healthier. They're not on all these, you know, do you suffer from ABCD? Ask your doctor about, you know, and they're not all jacked up already and they're healthy. And there must be something like nine of us in our family are RH negative. I'm O negative. My brother's A negative.

1:53:28 Speaker 1: My mom, My father was O negative. Yeah. Nine of us. Yeah. My immediate family. And my wife was B negative. And my son is AB negative. So everybody in our family, our temperatures run at 97.5. So when I was in school and I was a little sore throat, I don't feel good. I'd go to the school nurse and I'd take my temperature. It was like 98, 99, whatever. Oh, you're fine. No, I'm not. I'm two and a half times. I'm burning up, man. You know, it's like, that's not what they wouldn't believe it, you know, but then again, O negative blood.

1:54:09 Speaker 1: Now picture this Sheffield, Massachusetts tied to nuclear weapons, magnesium, atom bomb, Nike missile sites, right? The whole bit. And then O negative blood is the only blood tracked by the U S government during the cold war. Oh, Because we were the universal donor during the war.

1:54:31 Speaker 4: Guys, put this together. Put it together.

1:54:36 Speaker 2: All of the context clues are there. So, yeah, going back to my question. Do you think it's... Like, say... I don't think humans exist if dinosaurs don't get reset and wiped out. I don't think we could cohabitate with a predator such as the dinosaurs, or some of the dinosaurs, I should say.

1:55:11 Speaker 4: But do you think that if they were never reset, that.

1:55:16 Speaker 2: Potentially one of them would have walked upright and then become...

1:55:24 Speaker 2: this reptilian species that, that we hear about. This could happen on a different planet. You know, I doubt we're the only ones with carbon-based life. I doubt we're the only ones. I think we have a unique situation here, but given, like I said, given more time, is it improbable that some dinosaur species becomes that reptilian type of being? I don't think so.

1:55:50 Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you see the, you mentioned Rogan earlier. I saw a guy in Rogan. who brought back a prehistoric wolf.

1:55:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, the dire wolf.

1:55:58 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:56:00 Speaker 1: Even though it's not 100%, but it's really close. I would imagine in time, we might see a rebirth or bring back a dinosaur or two. Yeah, me too. Maybe not 100%, but I can see that happening. If the dire wolf is a real deal, apparently it is though. It is. Right. They just... filled in a couple of spots. What was it like out of a hundred thousand, you know, genomes, they added like seven maybe. Yeah.

1:56:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and again, this is like, this is straight out of Jurassic park. Right. I mean, I know, right.

1:56:46 Speaker 1: They, they found the, I think that they find the, the, the DNA in the ear.

1:56:51 Speaker 4: It was something like that.

1:56:53 Speaker 2: Yeah. It was some crazy, crazy thing. Like it was, it was, it wasn't just like, you know, we, it was, the whole thing's wild to me, but it's like, it's really, it makes me wonder. Cause it's like, we, we see movies like, we see movies like Jurassic Park and, and Terminator. And then right now or, or Star Trek, right. And then right now, all that stuff that was science fiction is now turning into science fact.

1:57:32 Speaker 4: I don't know if it's retro causality.

1:57:38 Speaker 1: Do you remember the crop circles that showed up in Sheffield? Yes. 2012. 2013. And 1995. 1995. Okay, so here again, not Great Barrington, Sheffield. So what people are seeing, or what they've been telling me, is that there's a shimmering man that they see. And the shimmering man supposedly... now i'm just telling you what i hear right is very much like terminator not terminator yeah terminate no not the one that was it terminator um where they had the invisible right Not Terminator.

1:58:29 Speaker 4: No, that's Invisible Man.

1:58:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, but what was that movie where he shows himself, he's invisible?

1:58:37 Speaker 4: Chad, help us out on this one, guys.

1:58:39 Speaker 1: What was that? Short Slinger's in it.

1:58:44 Speaker 2: Oh, Predator.

1:58:46 Speaker 1: Predator.

1:58:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, Predator.

1:58:48 Speaker 1: Thank God he's there.

1:58:49 Speaker 2: All right.

1:58:50 Speaker 1: So they're referenced like back to a movie thing, right? So they see the shimmery man. in the park, in the area, near these crop circles in Sheffield, and they've been referencing something like Predator. And I've never heard of it before, but apparently that's what people are reporting in Sheffield. There was another experiment they did. Armando is running experiments at the park. Yes, Predator, thanks. Yeah, I had a brain fart there. Anyway, they had all these different colored balls in the bridge.

1:59:24 Speaker 1: And they started playing different frequencies. Like I, like they do with a skin Walker and they hit certain frequencies and these balls moved inside the bridge. And it wasn't like all of them. It was just like a certain color. And, um, and then someone got thrown, like he jumped off a trampoline. This was while, um, Ava groves was there from paranormal after party, the TV show on, on the CW. there's all these things that seem to be happening. And it's almost so much, I'm not even sure what to make of it.

2:00:01 Speaker 1: And then they hear this wind-up siren, like there's a World War II siren underground. And then, like I said, at 2022, there was an explosion underground. I mean, it seems to me like something is still happening there. And when you look at these TV shows and stuff, you're like, this is, you know, what we saw and thought was entertainment is really happening.

2:00:27 Speaker 2: It might be time for me to take a trip.

2:00:31 Speaker 2: It might be time for me to take a trip to Sheffield.

2:00:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that time of year too. Most, there's a saying, they call it Sheffield September. Because a lot of what happens is done, it happens in September.

2:00:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish, it's odd, you know, I didn't realize how close we were to the actual event date. I mean, we're two months. Yeah.

2:00:59 Speaker 1: Have you seen the corn that grows where the UFO was?

2:01:03 Speaker 2: No.

2:01:04 Speaker 1: Did you know that it grows 15 to 17 feet?

2:01:07 Speaker 2: And no one planted it?

2:01:10 Speaker 1: No, it's planted. But it just grows like wherever the incident took place.

2:01:16 Speaker 2: Oh, you're saying it grows taller.

2:01:19 Speaker 1: The corn is as long as your arm.

2:01:25 Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?

2:01:26 Speaker 1: No, it's on the website. I got pictures of it on there.

2:01:29 Speaker 2: I didn't see that part.

2:01:32 Speaker 1: It's insane. It's like so much. I'm trying to keep it grounded, but it's so much.

2:01:39 Speaker 2: That's what I mean. You don't need to sensationalize this. There's already a sandbox here to play with.

2:01:48 Speaker 1: Those people online listening, all they got to do is go on, you know, UFO Park, Berkshire's UFO Corn. They'll see it. I mean, yeah.

2:01:58 Speaker 2: So what, back to the frequencies. Did you find anything with that? Did you, did it, I mean, what?

2:02:10 Speaker 1: Well, these are investigations that happen on a regular basis. It's becoming like a little skinwalker.

2:02:17 Speaker 4: Well, that's what I wanted to get to.

2:02:18 Speaker 2: So are we seeing the same types of phenomena from Skidwalker in Sheffield?

2:02:25 Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. As a matter of fact, it's a much smaller area, too. It's only a little, maybe the size of a football field. And that's where all the activity is. It's not like you've got to drive miles, right? It's all right there.

2:02:39 Speaker 2: Right. And about how far away from the actual incident uh, the, the, that park, you know, where the bridge was, um, how far away are the caverns where you think the deep underground military bases are?

2:02:58 Speaker 1: I would say three miles. So if they're not under the cornfields themselves, and matter of fact, I've got a lot of, um, I can send you a lot of, uh, I've been doing a lot of screenshots of what I've been finding online. Um, Sheffield is definitely the spot in Ashley Falls. So, and then of course, when you get to Canaan, that's where the, you know, the, the magnesium was mined for the atom bomb. And, and of course there, you know, there was a Nike, was it Nike atomic? Wasn't too far from there either.

2:03:33 Speaker 2: Yes.

2:03:34 Speaker 1: Nuclear power plant.

2:03:37 Speaker 2: So it's again, it's like, what, what are we, what, what's going on? What is the connection with, I mean, I know that, of course, we're in speculative area at this point, but when you think about the nuclear connection, I hate to compare your stuff to anyone, but at these nuclear sites, so Malmstrom, Minot, Ellsworth, and obviously, I want to take this moment to.

2:04:09 Speaker 1: Say- Nuclear plants or missile sites? Missile sites.

2:04:11 Speaker 4: Missile sites.

2:04:12 Speaker 2: Okay, so these are.

2:04:14 Speaker 1: If you can't shut down a nuclear power plant, you blow up.

2:04:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, of course. No, but what they're seeing at this place, and again, even.

2:04:26 Speaker 1: Let me jump in here for a second, okay? If you brought all this life here to preserve it, and you are polluting the water that everything dies... all this nuclear waste, the sludge, everything that's dumped into the Housatonic River. If you are killing yourself, then they're, and I say this, our ancestors, if you will, their intentions to preserve life, we're destroying what they're trying to preserve. And if we're going to have a nuclear accident, because we are just, everything we build with the government's like low bidder, right?

2:05:13 Speaker 1: So to your point, you know, anything nuclear could be an absolute disaster. And Sheffield had a little bit of that. And I know exactly what you're talking about. Do you see these missiles being shut down?

2:05:27 Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing is the craft, when you talk about when it shot the ice cream cone rod down. Yeah. You said the sphere, the more luminous orb, had this orange glow to it. It looked like it was alive. That is what they're seeing at the missile sites.

2:05:55 Speaker 1: I know. And we've been talking about this since 69.

2:05:59 Speaker 4: And Malmstrom was 67.

2:06:00 Speaker 2: Minot was 66. Ellsworth is 78, 79. All the same thing.

2:06:09 Speaker 2: It's all the same thing.

2:06:11 Speaker 1: And they're still seeing it to this day. If you go on my website, they captured one in broad daylight like 10 years ago.

2:06:19 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you something off air because it it's, it's coming out. I just, I have a, I'm not trying, I'm not trying to say like, I'm not even going to tell you guys in the chat or on the podcast, what I'm talking about, because, um, I know it's coming. I'll refer back to this. I'm not going to say trust me and promise anything. But there's something I got to tell you.

2:06:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can tell you something too. There is something.

2:06:56 Speaker 2: There is something about this look of this.

2:07:04 Speaker 4: Orangey red like.

2:07:07 Speaker 2: Almost like plasmoid, not plasmoid, but it seems like it's like, it seems like it's like flowing, you know, like.

2:07:15 Speaker 1: Yeah. My brother thought it turned like an ocean wave. It was like, like this. And then it swirls and it, and it gets lighter yellow and then it gets orangey again. Yeah.

2:07:27 Speaker 2: Oh my God. Oh my God.

2:07:28 Speaker 1: I saw that when I was nine.

2:07:29 Speaker 2: You're giving me chills, bro. Oh my God. Yeah. Wait, what?

2:07:37 Speaker 1: Yeah. We saw that when I was nine.

2:07:40 Speaker 2: So did you have a, is this, you had multiple sightings if I'm right?

2:07:48 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. 66, 67, which made the newspapers and 69, which made the radio. Yep.

2:07:52 Speaker 2: So what was the first experience like?

2:07:58 Speaker 1: The first experience was like, orbs in my bedroom um my brother and i were in bunk beds and um you know my brother and i were like in bunk beds and we saw these little orbs going around our room that was the first thing i remember and then i saw this light outside my window that looked like a hula hoop like a whitish bluish hula hoop thing. Yeah. Like a ring. And there's nothing behind our house at that point. We had a little river, but we used to leave the window open because you know, it was an old house.

2:08:32 Speaker 1: We didn't have like AC or air conditioners. Right. And so we left the window open with a screen and there's nothing behind our house, but like, um, you know, alfalfa field.

2:08:45 Speaker 2: Right.

2:08:46 Speaker 1: Right. And, um, we saw that. And then I remember, um, you know, seeing this path and this rock in my head, like kind of thing. And, and like this field, the open field, like, uh, uh, like in the middle of a very wooded area, this big open field. And I swore, I, I mean, it was like, I saw it, like I knew it was there. And, um, I used to ride horses when I was little. And so my mom had bought me a Pinto. I had this Pinto Thunder, you know? Um, And I had her saddle them up for me. And when she went in, I took the horse up there.

2:09:24 Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to, like there was a hay baler, right? Because we grew up on a horse farm, right? My mom used to raise quarter horses for the track. And so there was a hay baler and I wasn't allowed to go past that because if I fell or got hurt, she'd have all this area to look for me. She would have no idea where I am, right? So we had markers and I went past the marker, I passed the hay baler and I took the horse all the way to the edge of our property. and then broke through this path. I lowered my head and there was this boulder.

2:09:53 Speaker 1: There was this tree, that wishbone tree, as I remember seeing that open area. And I had never been there before that I remember. And that was my first experience. And then 67, you know, that's when, you know, that, that was something my mother was also involved in. And we talked about, and that was where our entire lives, you know, you know, I mean, it was, they were throwing stones from that point forward. Um, but 69 kind of put a, put a bow around it, you know, because so many other people were part of it and people said, I'm sorry, you know, Nancy, we shouldn't have been like that to you.

2:10:30 Speaker 1: But I mean, we actually had locals coming up to our front door of our restaurant in manure and then not letting people in. And you ever try to have an orange juice with manure? It just doesn't work.

2:10:43 Speaker 2: No.

2:10:44 Speaker 1: And they'd say, oh, they're closed and it blocked the entrance. And, and then, um, My mom met my father because these guys are being jerks in our restaurant.

2:10:53 Speaker 2: And he stood up.

2:10:54 Speaker 1: He did. And my mom's like, my hero. That's how they met. And he taught her, taught him how to ride horses and, you know, that kind of thing.

2:11:01 Speaker 4: True love.

2:11:02 Speaker 2: That's a true love story. Yeah.

2:11:05 Speaker 1: Yeah. He was a good man, you know, and my mom still to this day. Feels like she's the one who might've caused his demise because. Oh, she was kind of pushing him to do something with our incident. And he always said he would when the time was right. And then he does. And, you know, so it's kind of hard on her.

2:11:26 Speaker 4: Yeah.

2:11:28 Speaker 1: Yeah.

2:11:29 Speaker 2: And of course, like nothing I could say, right. Would, would, would, would change that for her. But I, I mean, I hope she knows that. Like that is not her fault. There.

2:11:43 Speaker 4: There is evil. In this world.

2:11:47 Speaker 2: There is evil. It is tangible evil. And we see it with the Epstein's. We see it with the. With the Diddy's. And all. It makes me sick. But you know. You know what. Really trips me out sometimes Tom.

2:12:09 Speaker 1: Or Mr.

2:12:09 Speaker 2: Reed. Is that. We live on a rock that is hurtling through a vast space that is revolving around a ball of fire, a nuclear reactor on steroids.

2:12:36 Speaker 4: We have paradise here.

2:12:37 Speaker 2: Take the humans away. We have rivers, valleys, but we look at our closest neighbors and it's just nothingness, right? Nothingness. And we see the capacity for the void of no life around us. And we don't take for granted the idea that we are on, like you said, I think we're on the arc. We are part of.

2:13:12 Speaker 1: The arc, yeah.

2:13:14 Speaker 2: Exactly.

2:13:15 Speaker 1: And I think we're on the outskirts too.

2:13:18 Speaker 2: Yes. And to suggest that beings from another dimension, dimension or, or a far off part of the cosmos that have, that, that have had millions, hundreds of millions of years of, of, of time and development before us wouldn't be interested in this planet. That is so naive.

2:13:52 Speaker 3: Right.

2:13:52 Speaker 1: I think we're on the outskirts of what you're saying. And I think we're put here because of the, there's no traffic this way. However, I still, to your point, I still think that there's a dimensional way to travel. And I think that there is, I do believe in like a portal type of thing. And I think that there's a way to cut space and time And when you see these UFOs, right, over the water, whatever, you know, you see a craft for one second and then it's gone. And then maybe it appears back over here.

2:14:25 Speaker 1: Let me ask you what you think of this idea. What do you think that if there is dimensional travel and you are seeing a craft and all of a sudden it disappears, right? Like, boom, it's gone, right? And if it is going to another dimension, then what do you think of the idea that like there's two boxes right here, you and me, right? I want to go to you, right? Then I want to stay back here. Somebody's noticing me, there's fighter jets, whatever. And I just need to get out of Dodge for a second, right?

2:14:57 Speaker 1: What do you think that if you toggle between two dimensions so quickly that you're not either in one, right? But theoretically you're in both. But you're not in this dimension yet because you're not, you haven't said, okay, I'm here, but you want to go to this dimension, but you want to come back because you need to do something, but you're spotted by whatever government, whatever. And so you just toggle, you don't, you're not really not here, right? You're just toggling so quickly that you're in neither place, just like, and yet you can be in both places, just like CERN, you can split, you know, You can be entanglement.

2:15:40 Speaker 3: Yeah.

2:15:41 Speaker 1: Yes.

2:15:42 Speaker 4: So, and, and which also leads to that idea.

2:15:46 Speaker 2: I like that idea also because do you know who Mark D'Antonio is? Yeah.

2:15:52 Speaker 1: He's one of my best friends.

2:15:54 Speaker 2: Okay. So you must know his idea about how he was just here in studio.

2:16:00 Speaker 1: Oh, no way. That's cool.

2:16:02 Speaker 2: He was just here in studio with Connecticut representative Hawksa.

2:16:08 Speaker 1: Okay.

2:16:08 Speaker 4: So, um, behind me, I have my, like, like my studio set.

2:16:15 Speaker 1: Okay.

2:16:15 Speaker 4: So I want to bring you up, man.

2:16:17 Speaker 2: So, um, or I'll come down to you cause maybe travels hard, but, um, but I also want to bring, I want to go to the site.

2:16:25 Speaker 1: That kind of concept was spawned by Mark. I mean, he was the one and I was talking to him about it.

2:16:31 Speaker 4: He said, what he thinks is essentially it's.

2:16:37 Speaker 2: Like, you're in our, you know, and this is why we could see what we see when we're observing craft and they look like they're skipping. Well, they're punching into another dimension and going a certain distance into that dimension or into that, whatever you call the toggle.

2:16:58 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.

2:16:59 Speaker 2: But the distance traveled inside that ether or other dimension equals the A radical amount here, like 1 to 1,000.

2:17:10 Speaker 1: Time isn't necessarily linear.

2:17:12 Speaker 2: So then when you punch back in, you're just kind of skipping along into the observer who's on the ground because of relativity. You would see it like it's choppy and moving at 90 degree angles, which is impossible.

2:17:30 Speaker 1: It would be hard to come back to the same reality you just skipped out of. Because time is not relevant.

2:17:37 Speaker 2: Relative. Yes. And yes, 100%. And so I'm with you on this one, man. And Mark, again, I forgot that you and Mark are so close.

2:17:49 Speaker 1: Yes.

2:17:50 Speaker 4: But he is him and I just we get along.

2:17:54 Speaker 1: So well he lives in Connecticut I've been to his house.

2:18:01 Speaker 2: He is such a good he's someone that I can just wind him up and let.

2:18:05 Speaker 1: Him go right forever And he's been in my park, too. He is a little bit of a skeptic, but that's healthy.

2:18:14 Speaker 2: He is. He is a skeptic.

2:18:15 Speaker 1: That's healthy. He doesn't get duped too easily.

2:18:18 Speaker 2: Very much so.

2:18:19 Speaker 1: Right.

2:18:20 Speaker 2: Very much.

2:18:21 Speaker 1: So anyway, is this running late? Almost? Yeah.

2:18:24 Speaker 2: Can I just play the ad real quick? Do you mind grabbing that thing? Oh, yeah, yeah.

2:18:31 Speaker 1: Run the ad, and I'll see if I can find it. I think I know where it is.

2:18:35 Speaker 2: Okay. So, guys, we are brought to you by.

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2:20:29 Speaker 1: Now back to the show.

2:20:38 Speaker 2: Got me sleeping.

2:20:42 Speaker 1: So I found it. So that is what is in the Roswell Museum.

2:20:52 Speaker 2: Whoa. So was there any antennae or was this the look?

2:21:02 Speaker 1: That was pretty much what I remember. I mean, this was built by a boy in Torrington, Connecticut, who went to the same college I went to and was in the art class. and actually made this for the Roswell UFO museum for their display. And, uh, but this one had a, like a default, you know, it's, um, it's got a hole in it somewhere. It's lost some of its filling and, and for whatever reason, it gets kind of dented. So he made another one and, um, you know, gave this one to me and this way, if anything happens to the one in Roswell, you know, you.

2:21:39 Speaker 4: Got a bat.

2:21:39 Speaker 2: Yeah. And you should, um, Yeah, that's actually really cool. So you said the eyes, the eyes are big, but those are not big eyes. They're just placed very weird.

2:21:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what's interesting, what's pointed out to me a lot? If I do this, does it not look like a gray? A little bit, right?

2:22:07 Speaker 4: So I can see what they're saying. It has that.

2:22:16 Speaker 1: Something about it.

2:22:17 Speaker 2: Yeah.

2:22:19 Speaker 1: And again, I was nine years old, man, almost 10. But, you know, describing this also is a collective from my mother and my grandmother. And so when we had, this all came from a drawing, right? Like I drew these sketches and they hung in my classroom in Sheffield Center School. And one of them still hangs in Roswell. And I had a drawing of what I remember seeing, right? And so when this kid made this, my mother looked at the, you know, put her two cents too as to what she remembered it looked like.

2:22:56 Speaker 1: And we all collectively put this thing together. And when we were done, we're like, yeah, this is it. And so this isn't perfect, but it's damn close. And, you know, but did it look like the friendly little gray? No.

2:23:14 Speaker 2: You know, it, it, uh, so do you, do you think that, that do you, cause what was the rest of the body like?

2:23:24 Speaker 1: Oh, I had the, the, the limbs look like bamboo with purple rings around it, like wine colored rings. Um, it's, uh, again, no, it looked like, uh, like an elephant skin. Um, it's the, the middle of the body looked like, uh, like it was really thin and then it had this roundish center and it kind of used it to keep its balance. I mean, yeah, it was really strange. I mean, I've got, again, there's a picture of it, I think on the website.

2:23:57 Speaker 2: So, um, And I really advise people to check it out.

2:24:05 Speaker 2: The links are in the description below. If you're watching right now or in the future or listening on one of our great podcast platforms, the Tom Rude websites and archives are www.berkshearsufo.com or ufopark.org. And again, those links are in the description below.

2:24:28 Speaker 1: Do you remember when the gray alien became really popular? Do you remember when that first started? Whitney Striever, Communion.

2:24:35 Speaker 2: Whitney Striever, Communion, because it's on the cover. It was actually the first book.

2:24:39 Speaker 1: And that was what, the early 90s?

2:24:43 Speaker 2: Yes.

2:24:44 Speaker 1: And so if you look at this, which was drawn in the 60s.

2:24:52 Speaker 2: Which is wild.

2:24:53 Speaker 1: Pretty similar, right? At this point, you know.

2:24:57 Speaker 2: Even the coloring.

2:25:01 Speaker 1: Well, that was something else I want to mention. I know you got to get going too. But what I remember is that the head, why I thought of an ant is because the head of it looked like a fire ant. You know how it's somewhat almost translucent, like a gelatin?

2:25:20 Speaker 2: Yeah.

2:25:21 Speaker 1: I remember that.

2:25:23 Speaker 2: Okay.

2:25:23 Speaker 1: And I remember the eyes and I remember the, like, Of course, like it's the weirdest thing. It's like, if I, I can remember, um, I don't know, going to a movie with my girlfriend, but I can't remember what she, what dress she wore or what skirt you wore. Right. You can remember these moments in time, but there's always these gaps, you know.

2:25:46 Speaker 2: Every time.

2:25:47 Speaker 1: Yeah. Can you hold that up again? Yeah.

2:25:53 Speaker 2: Because this is the communion. And look at that. I just want to point people to the coloration of the communion, of the actual communion book. Because it's actually not gray. It's far more brownish. Yeah, brown. And this was drawn in 69. And the nose, the nose holes being flush, it's remarkably similar.

2:26:30 Speaker 1: Yeah.

2:26:31 Speaker 2: Remarkably. And again, it just goes to show you that, like, I can't, I can't. And he was part of the later, he's not too far off from us either, or you're in proximity. you know, he, I think he's upstate New York, right?

2:26:53 Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.

2:26:54 Speaker 2: So again, it's this, this region is Betty and Barty Hill in, in, in New Hampshire, the triangle, the triangle, the Bridgewater triangle.

2:27:05 Speaker 4: Exactly.

2:27:06 Speaker 2: And I just, I was just there. Yeah. I was just, I was just there not even a month ago. So, you know, and then, I mean, again, we got to look at the connections between.

2:27:23 Speaker 1: The Cold War. And it's tapered.

2:27:27 Speaker 2: It is tapered. That blows me away.

2:27:35 Speaker 1: And so does the FBI in my park.

2:27:38 Speaker 4: Absolutely.

2:27:40 Speaker 2: Did you ever try to file a freedom of information or anything to get?

2:27:45 Speaker 1: No, they called me. Like I said, I've got their call recorded because I had my other phone. I had it on and I was recording a whole conversation with my backup phone. So they wouldn't tell me too much. I said, hey, yeah, I'm the owner of the park. And, you know, so she says the book didn't come out until 1987. Yeah. So this was 20 years, almost 20, 18 years before this.

2:28:10 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 18 years prior.

2:28:12 Speaker 1: Yeah. But anyway, yeah, man. So there's definitely something going on there. They do have a lot of, you know, investigations. So if you want to go during an investigation, I can call Armando and have him get in touch with you. Please.

2:28:28 Speaker 2: Because I would love to document it and then put it up and, you know, then, then I can sit with you and we can do some exposition and make, you know, again, make one of these definitive, like, you know, cause on, on YouTube, I actually was watching a couple retellings of your story and it's remarkable that how much they're getting wrong.

2:28:52 Speaker 1: Oh, it's terrible. It's and they're just screwing themselves. Who's that? Oh, it's Mark. There you go on the left. Yeah.

2:29:00 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was us here.

2:29:03 Speaker 1: Oh, nice.

2:29:04 Speaker 4: Every guest that comes in signs a Polaroid.

2:29:07 Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

2:29:08 Speaker 4: One of these days.

2:29:10 Speaker 1: I should be up. I think I'll be up next year. I might be working with the Pine Bush UFO Festival again.

2:29:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you do. I'll also pay for you to come here. I'll pay for the flight.

2:29:24 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah.

2:29:26 Speaker 2: And hotel.

2:29:27 Speaker 1: Yeah. Are we talking first class or?

2:29:31 Speaker 4: No, no, no, no.

2:29:33 Speaker 2: I'm not, I'm not Mr.

2:29:34 Speaker 4: Rogan yet.

2:29:35 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding with you. Yeah.

2:29:37 Speaker 2: Um, but I, I, I really, this is again, it's a, it's a, I, I, I still work another job.

2:29:44 Speaker 4: Um, I don't do this for the money. This is my passion.

2:29:48 Speaker 3: Right.

2:29:48 Speaker 1: Same here, man. I don't do this for money either. I'm trying to make a difference, man. That's all.

2:29:53 Speaker 2: Yeah.

2:29:54 Speaker 4: Um, I'd love to have you back.

2:29:57 Speaker 1: On the show. I'm going to interrupt you again. I'm sorry. But if I come up for Pine Bush, I would just drive up to see it. Okay.

2:30:04 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll pay for the gas. But I might even just.

2:30:08 Speaker 2: Go to Pine Bush.

2:30:09 Speaker 1: You should just come up and we can actually go to my old diner. I can show you where it lived. I can say this is where it happened. This is Linda Farrell. She's the actual real witness.

2:30:18 Speaker 4: We can do it all.

2:30:19 Speaker 1: Yeah.

2:30:20 Speaker 2: Right?

2:30:20 Speaker 1: You know what you might want to do sometime if you ever got enough? You really want to interview... the real people behind us, like the Linda Farrells and everything, I can give you their contact information. They're a little camera shy because they don't do this a lot, but maybe if it was prerecorded and whatever, but the people that are, like there's a pilot, I'm rambling again, I'm sorry, but there's a pilot that lives in Sheffield and her name is Nina. She flew over a lot of this. I mean, she was on a travel channel special talking about our case.

2:30:55 Speaker 1: And she saw the crop circles and everything from the air. And there were people that walked into the crop circles in Sheffield. They felt sick, like they had radiation poisoning. And that was on Travel Channel. But you're right. Like our case gets missed because they keep naming it something else. Yeah, right. So that was called orbs and insects, but it was our family's incident.

2:31:20 Speaker 4: Repackaged and honestly.

2:31:22 Speaker 1: Repackaged, yeah.

2:31:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, and honestly, you know, You're good-hearted about it, and you don't make– you could go after them for defamation and misrepresentation and essentially theft.

2:31:40 Speaker 1: Then I'm the jerk, right?

2:31:42 Speaker 4: Right, but then you become the jerk.

2:31:44 Speaker 2: So it's like you don't do that, and I respect that, but you also come out– you'll be like, this is bullshit.

2:31:52 Speaker 1: I'll call it like it is because I think I have to. Yeah. And then you wouldn't want anyone lying about your family.

2:31:58 Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly.

2:32:00 Speaker 1: And I usually ask them nicely to come on guys, right? Like take skeptical inquiry, right? They totally screwed up. If you go on there, they'll say the citation doesn't exist, that it was, you know, it was written in error.

2:32:14 Speaker 3: I put up the monument.

2:32:16 Speaker 1: I mean, just the common sense. I mean, really, like I came into, if I installed a 6,000 or 5,000 pound monument on private property, Without permission, I'd be arrested. There'd be charges, right? I mean, come on, guys.

2:32:30 Speaker 4: Massachusetts doesn't mess around.

2:32:31 Speaker 1: How do I move a 5,000-pound freaking monument? I mean, what do you need to do that?

2:32:35 Speaker 2: It would not still be up. What? I can tell you right now it would not still be standing. Even if you did get it in, it would not still be there.

2:32:48 Speaker 1: Right.

2:32:49 Speaker 2: Like it would be quickly disposed of by the county and the state.

2:32:55 Speaker 1: I'll tell you one more thing. I got to run. Yeah, yeah. This is interesting, right? So remember the gripe about the monument, right? So here's what happened. So a lawyer from Boston, Mark Reich from Copeland and Page, worked with the Sheffield Department of Public Works to install the monument. Right. And so there was I was doing a TV show or I was supposed to be there to do a TV show with Blanchard New England Legends. OK. New England Legends. And so they rolled out this monument, which is paid for by locals to be in this episode.

2:33:38 Speaker 1: Right. So I I drove in. The first time I saw it was during the filming. But after the filming, they left it there because this Tammy Blackwell. from the town of Sheffield had given everyone permission to put this monument there, right? It had nothing to do with me. However, the mayor or acting mayor at the time was fine with it and she approved it. But the true mayor was on vacation. And when she came back, she lost her mind because she's not into this topic and thought it made everyone look silly.

2:34:16 Speaker 1: So she tried to say, that they had a right of passage through down this dirt road where my park is, and that it infringed on her right of passage. And then everybody basically knew from the town that when they boarded off the bridge and put those pylons there, they not only, you know, prevented traffic to and from the road, but the farmer himself now has to go all the way around just to get to where, you know, get to get 20 feet away. And so at that point, the town of Sheffield lost their right of passage.

2:34:59 Speaker 1: The first person who okayed the Department of Public Works to put it there knew that. But the mayor, because of her biased, her last name was Wood, you know, she freaked out and natalie this other woman said okay well we need to take it away or whatever quite honestly you know i like the gesture i like the fact that locals paid for it yeah but in turn you know the money um from uh ancient aliens uh to put up a new sculpture uh by lenny morneau from avon connecticut um you know he donated a sculpture and unsolved mysteries paid for the uh the lettering and the wording and the work that needed to be done.

2:35:43 Speaker 1: So I ended up with a nicer sculpture anyway, but that's kind of what happened was that one acting mayor thought it was a good idea. You know, it was, Hey, it's not my property. And then, you know, the, the mayor herself or, you know, first selectman, you know, tried to play a trump card to.

2:36:02 Speaker 3: Get it removed.

2:36:03 Speaker 2: Yep.

2:36:03 Speaker 1: Yep. Yep. Yep.

2:36:04 Speaker 2: Um, Tom, I, you know, we'll, I would love to, we'll keep chatting. Cause I, I, there's some things I want to talk to you about. Um, and I think some cool shit that we could do, uh, where can people find you like aside from the websites, which again, guys, links are in the description. Um, you know, if they want to, if they want to chat with you or see what you're doing on socials.

2:36:29 Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, You know, I used to have a limousine service and my license plate is now a website is now an email. It's a VIP on TV at gmail.com. So again, VIP on TV at gmail.com again was a license plate for my limousine service. And now I got it as a website. So if you want to reach out to me, that's the best way. Otherwise it's Tom Reed dot official at Gmail. And if you email me, I'll get back to people. I mean, I, I sit around at night usually and check my emails and get back to people, you know, if time allows.

2:37:03 Speaker 1: And we're coming into a slow period with the holidays and everything. So yeah, if you've got any questions, you want to reach out and say hi, I'll get back to you. You have my word on that.

2:37:11 Speaker 4: I love that.

2:37:12 Speaker 1: I love that.

2:37:14 Speaker 2: You are an amazing, you've done an amazing job at not only keeping this case relevant, you keep it pure. And you are essentially the, sole archivist and one of the main witnesses. It's remarkable what you've accomplished.

2:37:35 Speaker 4: A lot of cases.

2:37:50 Speaker 2: They just can't say, most cases cannot say that they have been entered into the historical archives. It's something that is really commendable. It takes the topic to another level because people are starting to accept it. Those small wins,

2:38:19 Speaker 2: case by case, those are disclosure, right?

2:38:24 Speaker 1: Right. It is part of disclosure. Absolutely right. And that's why I have to keep it that way. Like, like I said to you earlier, before we even started, do you really think a governor in an historical society would say, yeah, we're going to, those gray aliens, that was a true story. We're going to induct that into history. That's not what happened.

2:38:40 Speaker 2: Right.

2:38:40 Speaker 1: You know? Yeah. And, and, and then, you know, of course the, you know, you get some blowback from the town, you know, you know, why did you say that? Or why did they think that? And it just, it really destroys the support we have. And we, and the only thing that we have that's different from everyone else, I mean, we all had experiences, right? So many of us have, right? But what we have that's different is we have the support of an entire, you know, state. And, and that is powerful. And the museums Yep.

2:39:16 Speaker 1: You can't, I'm not going to lose that support by allowing any more junk. Yeah.

2:39:24 Speaker 2: And, and that's fair.

2:39:25 Speaker 4: That's fair.

2:39:25 Speaker 2: And I think what you've done for the case is you've separated the, the fact from fiction and the, you know, the wheat from the chaff in terms of what's, what's, what's admissible and what isn't, um, what is, you know, what is more speculative and what is, this is what happened. Um, I really commend you for that. And I wish you and the family nothing, nothing but the best. Truly can't wait to work with you in the future. And this has been a great episode. I just want to say thank you.

2:40:01 Speaker 1: Yeah. And thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming and I really appreciate the extra time tonight.

2:40:06 Speaker 4: Of course. It was, it was, it was, it was owed.

2:40:11 Speaker 2: As I say, to wrap up every, every, every show, Been doing this a while now. Stay humble, stay kind, and most importantly, stay vigilant. We'll see you.