"Shadows of Secrets: UFO Whistleblower Jason Sands Exposes Role in "The Program"

0:00 Speaker 1: Today, I am beyond excited to bring you a conversation

0:04 Speaker 1: with a man who's lived a life most of us

0:07 Speaker 1: can only imagine, a life that sounds like it's ripped

0:11 Speaker 1: straight from the pages of a sci fi thriller. My

0:15 Speaker 1: guest is former military veteran now turned UFO whistleblower, Air

0:20 Speaker 1: Force Master Sergeant Jason T. Sands, whose career took him

0:26 Speaker 1: to one of the most mysterious and to one of

0:28 Speaker 1: the most heavily guarded places on Earth, the Nevada Test Site,

0:33 Speaker 1: better known to insiders as the Range. This isn't just

0:38 Speaker 1: another military base. This is a place where secrets don't

0:42 Speaker 1: just live, they thrive, and Jason was right there in

0:46 Speaker 1: the thick of it, witnessing things he describes as truly

0:50 Speaker 1: out of this world. Jason's journey didn't just stop at

0:54 Speaker 1: the Range. He since stepped into the spotlight, sharing his

0:58 Speaker 1: extraordinary expl experiences in James Fox's A Claim documentary, The Program,

1:04 Speaker 1: and most recently, sitting down with Joe Rogan on The

1:09 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan Experience to peel back layers of reality most

1:13 Speaker 1: of us never get to see. But why come forward now?

1:20 Speaker 1: For Jason, Well, it's about more than just telling a

1:24 Speaker 1: simple story. It's about pulling the curtain back on what

1:28 Speaker 1: he believes humanity deserves to know, even when it means

1:33 Speaker 1: facing skepticism, scrutiny, and the weight of a truth that's

1:38 Speaker 1: hard to swallow. From his days serving in the military

1:43 Speaker 1: to encountering phenomena that defy explanation, Jason's here to take

1:50 Speaker 1: us inside a world of classified operations, non human intelligence,

1:55 Speaker 1: and the questions that keep us all up at night.

2:00 Speaker 1: Forget to like, share, and subscribe as well if you're

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2:33 Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Please welcome Jason Sands.

2:43 Speaker 2: Glady bab Lab.

2:51 Speaker 3: I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would

2:55 Speaker 3: vanish if we were facing an a in threat from

2:57 Speaker 3: outside this workman. Yet I asked you, it's not an

3:00 Speaker 3: alien force already among us.

3:02 Speaker 4: We must guard.

3:03 Speaker 5: Against the acquisition of unwanted influence, whether sought or unsought

3:07 Speaker 5: by the military industrial company. The potential or the disastrous

3:11 Speaker 5: rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

3:34 Speaker 4: Now.

3:35 Speaker 3: I am becoming a world in my association of Project Group,

3:38 Speaker 3: they're definitely withheld information.

3:47 Speaker 1: Now.

3:48 Speaker 3: But look on the essay, we're all going again for

3:50 Speaker 3: the way that the hunter.

3:52 Speaker 6: You shall be swear or a firm.

3:54 Speaker 2: Asking me, you're about to give us the truth, the

3:56 Speaker 2: whole truth, and not England's truth.

3:58 Speaker 6: So how you got do you believe that our government possession?

4:01 Speaker 4: Absolutely?

4:08 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me today, Jason. I

4:11 Speaker 1: want to kind of just I want to get right

4:13 Speaker 1: into things. What is so, what's one thing about your

4:18 Speaker 1: time in the military.

4:19 Speaker 2: You're a master sergeant in the US Air Force.

4:22 Speaker 1: You've gotten to some crazy places, seeing crazy things, heard

4:25 Speaker 1: crazier things. But what is something that you're most proud

4:30 Speaker 1: of in your career looking back?

4:32 Speaker 6: Well, aside from the getting introduced to very clandestine programs,

4:38 Speaker 6: in secretive programs within the Air Force, I'd say the

4:42 Speaker 6: one thing I find the most precious is finding my family.

4:48 Speaker 6: And I know that might send corny to some folks,

4:50 Speaker 6: but to me. You know, I met my wife when

4:53 Speaker 6: I was at Nellis and then I was newly wit

4:57 Speaker 6: when I got introduced to the program, and there's a

4:59 Speaker 6: lot of things that happened that were nasty and things

5:02 Speaker 6: I don't want to keep having to dig up again,

5:04 Speaker 6: but there are a lot of good things that happened

5:06 Speaker 6: during those years too. So I got to build my family,

5:09 Speaker 6: and the Air Force really took good care of us,

5:12 Speaker 6: and it's improving over the years now for other folks

5:15 Speaker 6: that are members of the military nowadays. So I'm very

5:18 Speaker 6: happy to serve.

5:20 Speaker 2: I guess, so what drew you to a career in

5:24 Speaker 2: the military in the first place. Was it adventure? Was

5:28 Speaker 2: it duty? Something else?

5:30 Speaker 6: I wanted to prove to myself that I was going

5:33 Speaker 6: to finish this. You know, I'd been out there in

5:36 Speaker 6: you know, the civilian sector with jobs off and on,

5:41 Speaker 6: started thinking I wanted to get into security, maybe be

5:44 Speaker 6: part part of the police force, things like this, and

5:49 Speaker 6: eventually I just settled up on, yeah, I think Air

5:52 Speaker 6: Force would be good. I need to get in there

5:54 Speaker 6: and Besides, my dad said that he didn't want me

5:57 Speaker 6: to go on the Army of the Marines, even though

5:59 Speaker 6: he was a retired army guy of twenty two years himself.

6:03 Speaker 6: He's passed on since, but he actually told me, no,

6:06 Speaker 6: go in the Air Force. The maybe because they'll teach

6:08 Speaker 6: you a technical skill because back in his day, you know,

6:12 Speaker 6: they didn't have a lot of technical stuff in the

6:14 Speaker 6: Army and the Marines. So that's where he wanted me

6:17 Speaker 6: to go. And I honored my father by doing, you

6:19 Speaker 6: knowjoining the Air Force and keeping the military tradition going.

6:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. And I actually usually say this earlier,

6:29 Speaker 1: but I do want to say thank you for your service.

6:31 Speaker 2: To the country.

6:32 Speaker 6: You know, it's my pleasure, you know, for.

6:35 Speaker 1: Your family, your father his service as well. You know,

6:38 Speaker 1: without guys like you, were not able to have these conversations, right, so.

6:45 Speaker 2: It's all the more.

6:47 Speaker 1: Necessity, you know, it's all the more satisfying and you know,

6:52 Speaker 1: gratifying for me, you know, to be able to talk

6:54 Speaker 1: to people who you know, have done such amazing thing

7:00 Speaker 1: and never wanted credit for it, never you know, sought

7:04 Speaker 1: credit for anything.

7:05 Speaker 2: It's doing it because it's the what needs to be

7:07 Speaker 2: done next.

7:10 Speaker 6: So it is a job, but it does come with

7:12 Speaker 6: the trimmings of you know, you may have to give

7:14 Speaker 6: your life for your country at some point, and I

7:17 Speaker 6: think a lot of people take that for granted, but

7:20 Speaker 6: I took it seriously along with a lot of other

7:22 Speaker 6: brothers and sisters in the military that do. You take

7:25 Speaker 6: it very seriously. And yeah, I'm very thankful for everybody

7:29 Speaker 6: who came before me and the people that are coming

7:31 Speaker 6: after me. It's not an easy job, right, It's a

7:36 Speaker 6: lot of sacrifice, and that's another thing that you have

7:39 Speaker 6: to deal with in the military is a lot of

7:41 Speaker 6: time away from home and.

7:42 Speaker 1: Family, right, And that's I mean, you know, I come

7:45 Speaker 1: from a military family as well, and that's you know,

7:48 Speaker 1: that's one of the hardest parts is you know, there's

7:52 Speaker 1: the amount of time that you know is spent not

7:58 Speaker 1: around anyone that you know, you're fighting for the people

8:02 Speaker 1: that you care about, your fighting for, you know, the

8:05 Speaker 1: people you love, but you rarely see them while you're

8:09 Speaker 1: in and you know, it can be tough and I've

8:11 Speaker 1: seen it do some crazy things to people, but you know,

8:16 Speaker 1: you're all the stronger for it. And like I said,

8:18 Speaker 1: I really appreciate what you've done and what you've given.

8:23 Speaker 1: It's what you sacrificed to be here sitting today.

8:27 Speaker 6: So I'm glad that. I'm glad I made some sacrifices

8:31 Speaker 6: along with the men and women I served with, so

8:33 Speaker 6: that nobody else had to, right, I look at it.

8:36 Speaker 6: That's the way my dad taught me when I was growing up.

8:39 Speaker 6: You said, the only reason I did two tourist in

8:41 Speaker 6: Vietnam is because I didn't want you or any other

8:44 Speaker 6: young men to have to go through this.

8:47 Speaker 1: And I didn't even want to open the Vietnam can

8:51 Speaker 1: of worms. But so so your early life, you you

8:57 Speaker 1: kind of have. What I really like about you is

9:02 Speaker 1: you're kind of an open book and you've been able

9:06 Speaker 1: to tell a lot of background. I don't want to

9:10 Speaker 1: have to go over every single part of it, but

9:13 Speaker 1: can you tell me a little bit about your early

9:15 Speaker 1: life before the military, your family dynamic, and were you

9:20 Speaker 1: you know, were you always interested or were you ever

9:22 Speaker 1: interested in UFOs? And you know, existential questions like what

9:27 Speaker 1: happens after death?

9:29 Speaker 2: You know, are we alone?

9:31 Speaker 1: All these you know kind of existential questions that humans have.

9:36 Speaker 6: Yes, I'd have to say this is the phenomenon has

9:40 Speaker 6: has kind of followed me through my life as well

9:43 Speaker 6: as my family, my mother and sister, my eldest sister,

9:48 Speaker 6: mainly with some other things that go on with my

9:52 Speaker 6: younger sisters as well. But there seems to be in

9:56 Speaker 6: my younger years, at least there was to me much

9:58 Speaker 6: more spiritual I guess contact. I did have encounters along

10:05 Speaker 6: with my mother with beings that we couldn't explain, people

10:09 Speaker 6: you know, that we thought were just they kind of

10:13 Speaker 6: look human, but there's there's something off, kind of a thing.

10:17 Speaker 6: So I've had a few of those, But pretty much

10:19 Speaker 6: I was just an army brat. I I said, my

10:21 Speaker 6: dad was in the service, and we moved around quite

10:23 Speaker 6: a bit. I'd have to say that the strangeness really

10:26 Speaker 6: kicked in when my father was, you know, newly married

10:32 Speaker 6: to my mother in England. I had an incident there.

10:35 Speaker 6: Then moving to Fort Devon's, Massachusetts. There's a couple more

10:38 Speaker 6: there that happened that I can't explain. Some of these

10:42 Speaker 6: things will be in my book later, by the way,

10:43 Speaker 6: I'm going to be writing about them so you get

10:45 Speaker 6: more detail. I'm still writing that. But anyway, that's the

10:50 Speaker 6: way childhood was. But No, I didn't really have an

10:52 Speaker 6: interest in UFOs until I saw my first UFO in

10:58 Speaker 6: San Jose when I was ten years old, and I

11:00 Speaker 6: guess it made a bigger impact than other things. When

11:03 Speaker 6: I was younger, I just tended to, you know, shut

11:06 Speaker 6: it out of my head. I was more interested in playing,

11:08 Speaker 6: honestly outside stuff like that. But at ten years old,

11:13 Speaker 6: you kind of opened up a little bit more intellectually,

11:15 Speaker 6: and I think I was more receptive. But I actually

11:17 Speaker 6: had UFO encounter there.

11:20 Speaker 2: Could you mind, Do you mind going into that sighting?

11:24 Speaker 6: Oh? Sure? So it was around November December, the holidays.

11:30 Speaker 6: My aunt, uncle, my mom, and my dad, everybody was

11:33 Speaker 6: in the living room with my sisters and they were

11:38 Speaker 6: all talking. I got tired. I went into my bedroom

11:41 Speaker 6: that was down the hall from the living room, and

11:43 Speaker 6: I looked out the window without turning on the light yet,

11:46 Speaker 6: and I saw this weird looking red, very bright red

11:50 Speaker 6: orb looked like it came in from the atmosphere or

11:55 Speaker 6: upper atmosphere, and it was headed straight at me. And

12:00 Speaker 6: it was very small at first, and as it got closer,

12:04 Speaker 6: it descended. And my house at the time in San

12:08 Speaker 6: Jose was on the side of a gentle slope of

12:12 Speaker 6: a foothill, and I could see the rooftops all the

12:15 Speaker 6: way down to the bottom of my street. Then there

12:18 Speaker 6: was a little a ranch that a rancher that honed

12:21 Speaker 6: some property across the street. So there's this little valley

12:24 Speaker 6: and then right it rose up again to another hill

12:28 Speaker 6: and that's where this UFO or orb was coming down.

12:32 Speaker 6: So when it passed by the upper part of this

12:36 Speaker 6: other hill that was close by that was on the

12:39 Speaker 6: ranchers land, it, you know, it really lit up the

12:42 Speaker 6: whole thing with this brilliant red and it just kept

12:46 Speaker 6: coming straight at my neighborhood and at the bottom of

12:50 Speaker 6: the street, my friend Eddie, that's where he lived. That's

12:53 Speaker 6: when it got really close, and there was this brilliant

12:57 Speaker 6: flash of white, like a flashcube went off on your

13:00 Speaker 6: cellphone or camera, and it was blinding, but it only

13:05 Speaker 6: lasted an instant. And then the moment that that my

13:08 Speaker 6: eyes cleared right there about, you know, five foot above

13:12 Speaker 6: my friend Eddie's house roofline. He was in a single

13:17 Speaker 6: story home, and it was just sitting in his backyard,

13:21 Speaker 6: you know, a few feet above where his roofline would

13:24 Speaker 6: have been if his roof went out that far, and

13:26 Speaker 6: then it started moving towards the street or his driveway,

13:33 Speaker 6: and over the driveway. There is a light post at

13:36 Speaker 6: the bottom of the street there, so it was you know,

13:38 Speaker 6: shedding light. And this thing was low enough to where

13:42 Speaker 6: when it passed over his house, it started moving towards

13:46 Speaker 6: this light. That's when I took the opportunity to start

13:49 Speaker 6: screaming at the top of my lungs that there's a

13:51 Speaker 6: UFO outside. And I started running from my dad's binoculars

13:55 Speaker 6: that were in the hallway closet, and the only person

13:58 Speaker 6: that responded was my other and everybody else is just like, Oh,

14:04 Speaker 6: that's just Jason. He's he's uh, he's just having some

14:09 Speaker 6: kind of a weird, you know thing going on. Maybe

14:12 Speaker 6: he's just about something. It's probably a helicopter or whatever.

14:15 Speaker 6: So anyway, I ended up running out the front door

14:18 Speaker 6: and out on the front lawn. My mom follows me.

14:21 Speaker 6: By the time I was on the front lawn, I

14:23 Speaker 6: kind of the the UFO had come right underneath the uh,

14:29 Speaker 6: right over by the the light, so I could see

14:32 Speaker 6: it perfectly, and it looked like just a drop of

14:34 Speaker 6: mercury with a kind of flat bottom. But mainly you know,

14:38 Speaker 6: kind of a upper part looked more like an egg

14:41 Speaker 6: or an oval, and it had this really weird sort

14:44 Speaker 6: of a pen or it looked like a little times

14:47 Speaker 6: baby wing or something. It wasn't it wasn't like supporting

14:52 Speaker 6: its flight or anything, but it was kind of like

14:54 Speaker 6: an appendage or something that stuck out of the side

14:56 Speaker 6: on the bottom. So that's about the time I'm mom

15:00 Speaker 6: comes out and stands next to me. We're both amazed.

15:03 Speaker 6: It takes off like a shot up into the sky

15:06 Speaker 6: and it rotates around this other point of light that

15:08 Speaker 6: looks like a star. The one that my mother and

15:11 Speaker 6: I saw remained stationary, and this other point of light

15:16 Speaker 6: in the in the sky takes off across the horizon

15:19 Speaker 6: and my eyes couldn't even keep up. That's how quick

15:21 Speaker 6: it was. I actually could see it in my peripheral

15:23 Speaker 6: vision as it shot across the mountaintops that were million,

15:27 Speaker 6: you know, miles and miles in the distance, and it

15:32 Speaker 6: was really amazing. So after that incident, that's when I

15:37 Speaker 6: started picking up some books like Chariots of the Gods.

15:40 Speaker 6: That's when I started reading a little bit more. I

15:42 Speaker 6: got to the Project Blue Book and started reading through

15:46 Speaker 6: that as well. And that's when I started actually read

15:49 Speaker 6: some stuff. And I did that for a couple of years,

15:52 Speaker 6: and then I kind of put it down and just

15:54 Speaker 6: forgot about it until I got in the Air Force

15:57 Speaker 6: and got you know, put into the program. Then it

15:59 Speaker 6: all of suddenly became reality in my life again.

16:02 Speaker 1: Right, Memories start coming back and you're like, oh my god,

16:05 Speaker 1: you know I've seen some of this stuff.

16:08 Speaker 2: I think.

16:10 Speaker 6: You know, yeah, you're always you know, when it happens

16:14 Speaker 6: to you, it kind of rocks your world and you're like,

16:18 Speaker 6: what on earth is that? It really makes you wonder,

16:20 Speaker 6: you know, what are these things? Are these you know,

16:23 Speaker 6: other beings? You know all the things that you ask

16:26 Speaker 6: yourself and then if they are other beings, what does

16:27 Speaker 6: this mean? You know? Was this for me? Or was

16:30 Speaker 6: this for my friend Eddie? Was it for all of us?

16:33 Speaker 6: You know? Why did they come? And what were they doing?

16:37 Speaker 6: All those things that are going through my mind constantly

16:39 Speaker 6: is to figure out. And that's why I kept reading,

16:41 Speaker 6: because I was looking for answers.

16:44 Speaker 2: Yeah.

16:45 Speaker 1: I call it the moment of conversion, right, It's the

16:49 Speaker 1: moment that the world goes from black and white to

16:55 Speaker 1: really gray, right, and that it's I had a very

16:59 Speaker 1: similar experience around the same age, you know, and and

17:03 Speaker 1: that's I went to the library right after, you know,

17:06 Speaker 1: kind of very similar to what you're saying, and you know, started.

17:11 Speaker 1: My mother was very supportive, you know, of she helped me.

17:17 Speaker 1: She's handing me books. She told me what I saw

17:20 Speaker 1: I was probably a UFO and then explained what a

17:23 Speaker 1: UFO was, you know, So I hadn't I didn't even

17:26 Speaker 1: know what a UFO was prior to to to her

17:31 Speaker 1: saying it. And because I grew up next to an

17:33 Speaker 1: air Force base and very very very familiar with what

17:39 Speaker 1: the inventory looked like. My dad worked on base, you know,

17:45 Speaker 1: we're always in and out, so I was very familiar with,

17:48 Speaker 1: you know, planes and all that kind of stuff. And

17:50 Speaker 1: I saw the classic gray disc, you know, and it

17:54 Speaker 1: was oscillating but also moving forward.

17:58 Speaker 2: At like a breakneck speed and.

18:02 Speaker 1: Tree top level ce chers and not you know, or

18:08 Speaker 1: a sorry lack of feature. It was, you know, looked

18:11 Speaker 1: like it was what I would say is three D

18:12 Speaker 1: printed now, you know, no seams, no rivets, nothing found

18:19 Speaker 1: at all.

18:20 Speaker 6: Same with me. I didn't see any rivets. It was

18:23 Speaker 6: a smooth as glass or smoothest mercury would look like

18:26 Speaker 6: if it was just sitting on a drop or on

18:28 Speaker 6: a plate, you know, right perfect in every way. When

18:31 Speaker 6: it came to that other than this little sort of

18:34 Speaker 6: little wing thing or whatever it was sticking out of

18:36 Speaker 6: it on the one side, probably had the same thing

18:39 Speaker 6: on the other side. I just couldn't see the other side.

18:41 Speaker 1: But okay, so that that moment, uh, you know, it

18:48 Speaker 1: really converts you. You now you're starting to read things

18:51 Speaker 1: Chariots of the Gods Project blue Book obviously, you know

18:59 Speaker 1: when you now, let's I kind of want to fast forward.

19:02 Speaker 1: You go into the military. How do they how does

19:08 Speaker 1: someone get entered into the program? What are they looking for?

19:12 Speaker 1: How does that happen? How do you go from you know,

19:15 Speaker 1: just a person in the Air Force to a person

19:18 Speaker 1: in the Air Force and the program.

19:21 Speaker 6: Well, I didn't start off as an intelligence person. I

19:25 Speaker 6: actually started off fixing airplanes. So I was a sheet

19:28 Speaker 6: metal troop or an airframe repair specialist. So it was

19:34 Speaker 6: kind of serendipity that ended up in Intel, which led

19:37 Speaker 6: to me being introduced into the program. Once I did

19:41 Speaker 6: switch into Intel after the first three years of service,

19:45 Speaker 6: I guess you're you might be getting groomed. You might

19:51 Speaker 6: be being looked at at any given point in time

19:54 Speaker 6: by folks that are read into special access programs and

19:56 Speaker 6: they're looking at certain individuals that have potential, but there's

20:00 Speaker 6: no paperwork at all involved in that. So I actually

20:04 Speaker 6: served a tour of duty in Seenbach, Germany, before anything happened,

20:09 Speaker 6: and before I was introduced to any special access programs.

20:14 Speaker 6: But I did go on a couple of clandestine type

20:18 Speaker 6: missions that I wasn't told what was actually going on,

20:24 Speaker 6: so I wasn't actually read in, but I know that

20:26 Speaker 6: the mission supervisor, for example, was so I did maybe

20:29 Speaker 6: touch a little bit of some of the special access programs,

20:33 Speaker 6: but it was not as far as I knew, part

20:35 Speaker 6: of any UFO program or reverse engineering program. Then my

20:39 Speaker 6: next duty station was Nelly's and that's when things really

20:42 Speaker 6: got strange after the first six months or so, so

20:47 Speaker 6: I started off there. I know that there's a couple

20:52 Speaker 6: of things that got people's attention. I guess that people

20:55 Speaker 6: talked about me. There was one time and a good

20:58 Speaker 6: friend of mine, Ginny, was testing me for a volume

21:02 Speaker 6: review exercise for me to make it to my next

21:06 Speaker 6: career skill level as an analyst. And you know, I

21:10 Speaker 6: had like three hundred questions on the test, and I

21:13 Speaker 6: only read through it once and handed her back the paper,

21:17 Speaker 6: and then she started quizzing me, and I was able

21:19 Speaker 6: to answer ninety seven percent of the questions correctly and

21:22 Speaker 6: even finish her sentence for her. And so people thought

21:27 Speaker 6: that was kind of weird that I could remember things

21:29 Speaker 6: that quickly. And then there was an incident where they

21:33 Speaker 6: were on now's test range. And it's kind of dumb,

21:35 Speaker 6: but this guy Al and me and a couple of

21:39 Speaker 6: the other guys were at this one site and he

21:42 Speaker 6: was trying to change the combination to the safe because

21:45 Speaker 6: there was cryptographic material we had to pull out of there,

21:48 Speaker 6: and so we had to have a lock safe in

21:52 Speaker 6: our site. So he was trying to change the combo

21:56 Speaker 6: and he accidentally took out the screws that hold the

21:58 Speaker 6: whole thing together, little springs and everything like cupoop all

22:02 Speaker 6: over the place, and he was he was like, oh geez,

22:06 Speaker 6: you know, he's thinking, now we can't get the mission

22:08 Speaker 6: going and all this other good stuff because I broke

22:10 Speaker 6: the safe, and and I'm like, well, let me give

22:13 Speaker 6: it a try. I used to do some mechanical stuff.

22:15 Speaker 6: It's an airframe guy, and I actually put it back

22:18 Speaker 6: together and saved the day for him. So that story

22:22 Speaker 6: kind of went around a little bit too. So maybe

22:24 Speaker 6: they just thought I was a good analyst able to

22:26 Speaker 6: figure out things on my own. But they it was

22:29 Speaker 6: only a verbal invite, and they just said that, you know,

22:31 Speaker 6: we'd like to get you on board. And on top

22:36 Speaker 6: of that, I'd actually been up range in a car

22:39 Speaker 6: with one of the people that I ended up finding

22:41 Speaker 6: out was in the program already, and he was actually

22:44 Speaker 6: planning on, you know, getting to know me. I think

22:47 Speaker 6: that trip up range, he just we got to know

22:49 Speaker 6: each other. We got along great, so he knew as

22:52 Speaker 6: a team player, he knew that we were friends, and

22:56 Speaker 6: you know, we both have a lot of similar similar

22:58 Speaker 6: hobbies and stuff like this. So I think think I

23:00 Speaker 6: got friendly with them. They liked my analysis work. Maybe

23:04 Speaker 6: some of those things that I did that were kind

23:06 Speaker 6: of strange for other people. You know, you know, have

23:09 Speaker 6: a good memory, that kind of a thing. They knew

23:11 Speaker 6: all these things about me, and I think that's what

23:13 Speaker 6: got me introduced into the program. So that's kind of

23:16 Speaker 6: how it goes is you be picked by hand, really

23:19 Speaker 6: and people that are in the program are kind of

23:21 Speaker 6: always looking out for, you know, potential people to help.

23:27 Speaker 6: So I think that's what got me in there. It

23:29 Speaker 6: wasn't really a formal or anything. It was just kind

23:31 Speaker 6: of like they saw me somehow, they liked me, and

23:35 Speaker 6: then they invited me.

23:37 Speaker 1: So kind of like a perfect storm. It sounds like

23:40 Speaker 1: you what they call like a photographic memory, where you

23:43 Speaker 1: don't really you can look at something and then you know, well.

23:46 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's It's not that I have a photographic memory,

23:49 Speaker 6: because that requires total recall. What I had was a

23:52 Speaker 6: linking memory, and whenever I hear something similar, my brain

23:56 Speaker 6: fires off in all these directions and I link things

24:00 Speaker 6: together that are like I don't know how to put it,

24:03 Speaker 6: that are connected. I find the connections pretty easily. So

24:08 Speaker 6: that's when my memory comes in. And if I don't

24:11 Speaker 6: have that trigger, I don't just pull it out of

24:13 Speaker 6: my head. I've got to have a trigger and then

24:15 Speaker 6: I can remember it.

24:17 Speaker 1: Okay, And that makes that That does make a little bit.

24:19 Speaker 1: That makes more sense, okay, And okay, so the perfect

24:24 Speaker 1: storm of of all those things they they you're actually

24:31 Speaker 1: let's kick it back.

24:33 Speaker 2: When you went to Nellis, did you know that.

24:39 Speaker 1: Did you know that this place had a history of

24:43 Speaker 1: you know, secrets. It was a very secretive place where

24:49 Speaker 1: you know, obviously you know the public has been talking

24:52 Speaker 1: about it for a very long time.

24:54 Speaker 2: You know about how they.

24:55 Speaker 1: House certain you know technology there and yeah to YadA YadA.

25:01 Speaker 1: Did you know this going to Nellus or is this

25:04 Speaker 1: something that kind of you start seeing things that that

25:08 Speaker 1: pique your attention?

25:10 Speaker 6: No, I really didn't know much about you know, the

25:13 Speaker 6: area up there, the Nells Test Range, Black Mountain Operations.

25:17 Speaker 6: I knew nothing about any of that until I actually

25:20 Speaker 6: got there.

25:21 Speaker 1: So what was your first day like on the range?

25:25 Speaker 1: I mean, did it feel like just another job or

25:27 Speaker 1: did you see dirty?

25:29 Speaker 6: Yeah? Well, the first day I was on range was

25:32 Speaker 6: when I was training to become what they call a

25:34 Speaker 6: Red Force operator. Where you go upright, a Red Force

25:39 Speaker 6: operator is not the same thing as a Red team.

25:41 Speaker 6: I just want to make that distinction as I go

25:43 Speaker 6: through this. Red forcing is where you pose as an

25:47 Speaker 6: enemy force, but you're a good guy and you're training

25:51 Speaker 6: either pilots or army battalions on how to fight a

25:55 Speaker 6: war under realistic conditions. That's what red forcing is. Teaming

26:00 Speaker 6: is totally different. Red teaming is what I did when

26:02 Speaker 6: I was doing telecommunications monitoring, and it's kind of the

26:05 Speaker 6: same thing where you come from a discipline where you're

26:08 Speaker 6: playing the part of an enemy that's trying to get

26:11 Speaker 6: into the mission type of the organization that I'm assessing.

26:16 Speaker 1: So finding finding holes, findingnesses so that we can strengthen

26:22 Speaker 1: those weaknesses.

26:24 Speaker 6: Correct and you're there to help train people and report

26:27 Speaker 6: on that. So here I am going up Rains for

26:29 Speaker 6: the first time, and I'm doing a Red Force training

26:32 Speaker 6: thing where I have to go through and you know,

26:35 Speaker 6: there's a you know, a few weeks long where you

26:38 Speaker 6: have to learn how to utilize the equipment, how to

26:41 Speaker 6: set it up, and how to train in this case,

26:45 Speaker 6: aircrews or pilots on how to survive in a wartime environment.

26:50 Speaker 6: So we're making it difficult for them to use the radios,

26:52 Speaker 6: trying to get them to use their countermeasures so they

26:55 Speaker 6: can get bombs on target, those types of things. That's

26:58 Speaker 6: what I was learning. And that's the first time I

27:00 Speaker 6: was up at Nellis on Black Mountain, and that's when

27:04 Speaker 6: I found out from one of the other people that

27:07 Speaker 6: were stationed there already and knew everything about this this

27:11 Speaker 6: Red Force and on Black Mountain they pointed to a

27:15 Speaker 6: mountain range that was across the plateau that was in

27:18 Speaker 6: front of us. Because I'm standing on the top of

27:20 Speaker 6: a mountain and you can see this mountain range from

27:23 Speaker 6: Dreamland or Groom Lake is right there. I mean it's

27:27 Speaker 6: many miles away, but you know, on a crystal clear day,

27:30 Speaker 6: it doesn't look it looks like you could walk through it.

27:32 Speaker 6: But it's longer than that. But yeah, that's when I

27:36 Speaker 6: found out because everybody was pointing, ooh, that's Dreamland. People

27:39 Speaker 6: are saying all kinds of crazy stuff about UFOs and

27:42 Speaker 6: blah blah blah. And I was like like, oh, that

27:45 Speaker 6: sounds cool, you know, and then I had to, you know,

27:49 Speaker 6: get back into class pretty quickly after that. So you know,

27:53 Speaker 6: that's when I first started kind of thinking, well, I

27:56 Speaker 6: wonder what really goes on over there. Yeah, so that

27:58 Speaker 6: was the first time I kind of got introduce to it.

28:01 Speaker 6: So I knew a little bit about it, but I

28:03 Speaker 6: really didn't know the inside story until I got read in.

28:06 Speaker 1: Right, I want to I want to distinguish something. So

28:12 Speaker 1: when you were doing the telecommunications stuff, yeah, you had

28:19 Speaker 1: you you heard things on secure lines that made you think, like, wait,

28:30 Speaker 1: what are they talking about? And so that you were

28:35 Speaker 1: not in the program when that happened.

28:38 Speaker 6: Well, the locations that we would go to, you know,

28:43 Speaker 6: we'd have teams go out on normally two week missions.

28:47 Speaker 6: It's about ten people total. Depending on whether we're doing

28:50 Speaker 6: you know, daily ops or twenty four hour ops, you'd

28:53 Speaker 6: have to have double up your team kind of a thing.

28:55 Speaker 6: But you could be you know, most of my normal

28:58 Speaker 6: day to day missions were telecommunications for non program stuff.

29:04 Speaker 6: It was like going out to you know, McCord Air

29:07 Speaker 6: Force Base and monitoring you know, just this one organization

29:13 Speaker 6: on that base, and then I'd go out the next

29:16 Speaker 6: month and I'd go to another base, like in Colorado,

29:18 Speaker 6: I'd go to Cheyenne Mountain and do another mission there

29:23 Speaker 6: and things like that. So, yeah, you get chipped out

29:26 Speaker 6: all over the place to do all kinds of stuff

29:29 Speaker 6: on those missions. And each time it was kind of

29:33 Speaker 6: up to the customer or the commander of those locations

29:36 Speaker 6: to actually tell you what to focus on or they

29:40 Speaker 6: tell you you get absolutely nothing. You need to come

29:42 Speaker 6: in as if you're the enemy and I want you

29:46 Speaker 6: to give me an honest assessment as to what you

29:48 Speaker 6: found out. So it kind of depended on what you

29:51 Speaker 6: were given on the onset and it was just the

29:53 Speaker 6: same inside the program as well. However, we use the

29:57 Speaker 6: exact same equipment, we use the exact same methodologies, but

30:02 Speaker 6: now we're doing it with an OSI team who's doing

30:05 Speaker 6: the physical security assessment along with us, and so you

30:11 Speaker 6: had additional folks working alongside you to do the assessments

30:15 Speaker 6: inside the program because they had other concerns about you know,

30:20 Speaker 6: people you know, blabbing outside of work, you know, and

30:23 Speaker 6: so the OSI agents would go to the bars and

30:25 Speaker 6: things like this. Sometimes we would go help them as

30:28 Speaker 6: well if they needed it. So it's a little bit

30:32 Speaker 6: more robust when you're doing it for the program than

30:35 Speaker 6: these daily jobs that we did. So it's that's how

30:37 Speaker 6: it ran. So the normal operations was outside of the program.

30:40 Speaker 6: You could go to any place in the continental US

30:44 Speaker 6: sometimes overseas. When you're in Germany, you do Europe. When

30:48 Speaker 6: you're in the United States, you do United States locations

30:51 Speaker 6: and installations, et cetera, et cetera. You know, if you're

30:55 Speaker 6: in the Pacific, you do the Pacific rim locations and

30:58 Speaker 6: where the But the one thing I want to distinguish

31:02 Speaker 6: as well, we're only allowed to legally monitor d O

31:06 Speaker 6: D owned and least telephones or telecommunication systems, so you

31:12 Speaker 6: can't just you know, I'm not monitoring people outside the base.

31:16 Speaker 6: I'm only monitoring the organization. That's all. I've got the

31:19 Speaker 6: legal means to go and and monitor. And that's something

31:24 Speaker 6: that I think a lot of people don't know, is,

31:26 Speaker 6: you know, especially with all the stuff that's gone on

31:28 Speaker 6: politically with you know, this administration, previous administrations overstepping their

31:34 Speaker 6: balance as to who they can tell. Community. If you

31:36 Speaker 6: are monitoring somebody's phone and they're an American citizen and

31:39 Speaker 6: you don't have permission, that's a crime.

31:41 Speaker 2: Is a crime, Yes, that is illegal. It's a crime

31:45 Speaker 2: of the highest degree.

31:46 Speaker 6: Yes, that is you are literally encroaching on the Only

31:50 Speaker 6: time you can do that is if you have proven

31:52 Speaker 6: evidence that this person needs to be under arrest, has

31:56 Speaker 6: committed a crime, or is threatening bodily harm and killing

31:59 Speaker 6: someone else. And those are the most extreme of cases

32:02 Speaker 6: when you can divulge things. But you have to assume

32:06 Speaker 6: as soon as that happened, it would be out of

32:07 Speaker 6: my purview. I'd have to turn it over to like say,

32:10 Speaker 6: the police department or whoever to try to, you know,

32:14 Speaker 6: save somebody's life, or to you know, resolve the crime

32:18 Speaker 6: that I just heard about on the phone. That kind

32:21 Speaker 6: of stuff got it.

32:22 Speaker 2: So when was the first?

32:24 Speaker 1: So this is when I've heard your story and i've

32:29 Speaker 1: you know, listened to I think almost every show that

32:31 Speaker 1: you've done.

32:35 Speaker 2: What my my confusion is when.

32:40 Speaker 1: You talk about listening into the the phones and they're

32:47 Speaker 1: talking about you know what what they mentioned reptilians or

32:52 Speaker 1: the grays working in the lab.

32:55 Speaker 2: Is this for your your day job or is this

32:58 Speaker 2: when you're in the program?

32:59 Speaker 6: I mean the agrement at that point. In other words,

33:04 Speaker 6: these were from actual conversations on these sites where these

33:09 Speaker 6: people operate out of for the program, and you're talking

33:14 Speaker 6: like the what everybody's already been talking about, right Patterson

33:18 Speaker 6: White Sands, Eglin Air Force Base. All these are part

33:22 Speaker 6: They have laboratories or office space on those installations. So

33:28 Speaker 6: that's what we were monitoring was those locations, and we

33:32 Speaker 6: would picked very specific lines that we thought would be productive.

33:36 Speaker 6: Sometimes they were vetted with the customers who wanted very

33:40 Speaker 6: specific offices and laboratories to be monitored so that we

33:46 Speaker 6: wouldn't waste our time. We only had two weeks. Chinese

33:49 Speaker 6: and Russians. They've got their whole life so plenty more

33:52 Speaker 6: time than we do. So we've got The more we

33:54 Speaker 6: got information on the onset, the better it was, the

33:57 Speaker 6: better the mission was. Anyway, we'd go from site to

34:01 Speaker 6: site doing that. But yes, we'd be listening in on

34:04 Speaker 6: probably the top brass you know, the people that were leaders,

34:09 Speaker 6: lead scientists, lead engineers, directors, general officers, laboratory environments, you

34:19 Speaker 6: name it. We were We had we had access to

34:21 Speaker 6: all that.

34:22 Speaker 1: Wow. So when was the first time that you heard

34:26 Speaker 1: something that really made you go, what the did you

34:31 Speaker 1: just say?

34:33 Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I heard the term zodiac, which has been

34:38 Speaker 6: thrown around. I heard constellations from stars, and those were

34:43 Speaker 6: things that I'm like, what are they doing here? Are

34:45 Speaker 6: these all program names or what? You know? But I've

34:48 Speaker 6: come to find out they had other contexts that associated

34:50 Speaker 6: with them. So it started very early on. But then

34:54 Speaker 6: I'd say it took me about a good few missions,

34:57 Speaker 6: about three three missions, and I started here ring, you know,

35:01 Speaker 6: and putting things together. And I was able to start

35:04 Speaker 6: putting you know, this site does this, that site does that.

35:08 Speaker 6: Therefore this person's context was this, and now that means

35:11 Speaker 6: this to me as an analyst, and I'm going to

35:14 Speaker 6: report on it differently from now on out because now

35:16 Speaker 6: I understand the bigger picture. So it takes a while,

35:19 Speaker 6: but you know, within that first year being on program,

35:22 Speaker 6: you get a lot a lot of insider knowledge, and

35:25 Speaker 6: that's when things are easier for you to put together

35:27 Speaker 6: as an analyst.

35:28 Speaker 2: Got it. So you hear.

35:33 Speaker 1: At one point, you hear them talking about some sort

35:39 Speaker 1: of laboratory situation where humans are working alongside.

35:46 Speaker 2: Yes, that was it, the grays.

35:49 Speaker 6: It was the grays and the tall whites. Yes. And

35:53 Speaker 6: the part that really raised the hairs on the back

35:58 Speaker 6: of my neck was when they said, only after the

36:00 Speaker 6: tall whites and the grays leave the laboratory are the

36:04 Speaker 6: humans allowed to come inside. And I was like, what

36:07 Speaker 6: on earth did he just say? So we're talking about

36:10 Speaker 6: tall whites and grays as being different types of people

36:14 Speaker 6: or different types of what you know. I just boggled

36:18 Speaker 6: my mind because the way they were referring to them

36:21 Speaker 6: was that the tall whites would come in with some

36:24 Speaker 6: equipment and do this, and then the grays would come

36:27 Speaker 6: in and clean up afterwards and take all the advanced

36:32 Speaker 6: technologies out of the laboratory environment. And then they'd have

36:36 Speaker 6: to reset up the you know, and then the humans

36:38 Speaker 6: would come in and do the experiment, and then they'd

36:42 Speaker 6: come in and redo the whole thing over and over again.

36:44 Speaker 6: They cycle through it that way, because it's like one

36:47 Speaker 6: engineer telling the other engineer or scientist how to run

36:51 Speaker 6: the lab. But that one piece of information, when they

36:54 Speaker 6: distinctly said, then the humans can enter the room, That's

36:59 Speaker 6: when I realized there was something really off. And I

37:01 Speaker 6: immediately after I wrote it down on my GI just sheet,

37:05 Speaker 6: I look at the lead analyst and I just said,

37:07 Speaker 6: what on earth did I just hear?

37:09 Speaker 4: Right?

37:10 Speaker 6: So, the whole team gatherers around my rack, that's what

37:14 Speaker 6: they call it. I had twenty telephone lines to monitor.

37:17 Speaker 6: They came to my rack and they made me rewind it,

37:20 Speaker 6: and they I replayed it for all of them. They

37:22 Speaker 6: put on their own headsets and they all looked at

37:25 Speaker 6: each other like, oh my gosh, what on earth is this?

37:28 Speaker 6: You know, they all looked just as surprised as I did.

37:30 Speaker 6: So very very very strange date.

37:35 Speaker 1: Right, because again, like you said, you know, you could

37:41 Speaker 1: have maybe chalked it up if they didn't, you know,

37:45 Speaker 1: to maybe they're referring, you know, code names, but then

37:48 Speaker 1: they specifically say and then the humans. So at that

37:52 Speaker 1: point there's a differential or a differentiating between yes, human

37:59 Speaker 1: being and something else.

38:02 Speaker 6: Yeah, And I had to distinguish that when I actually

38:05 Speaker 6: gave my testimony in twenty twenty two, because they asked

38:09 Speaker 6: me about that same incident, and one of the gentlemen

38:12 Speaker 6: across the table from me, who was interviewing me on

38:15 Speaker 6: the house side, well, I gave my testimony as a whistleblower.

38:19 Speaker 6: He said, are these like code words? And I'm like, no, Well,

38:25 Speaker 6: could they be talking about something else? I'm like, you

38:27 Speaker 6: got me. But the context that I remember was that

38:31 Speaker 6: as soon as they said, you know, this whole thing,

38:33 Speaker 6: the context was that these were not humans in that

38:37 Speaker 6: context of this conversation. So they had to go like, wow,

38:41 Speaker 6: you know. So I think some of them were left

38:44 Speaker 6: on the fence. Some of them wanted it to be

38:47 Speaker 6: a program name. I think some of them believed me

38:51 Speaker 6: and realized that yeah, this was you know, we're talking

38:54 Speaker 6: about different species of you know, bipedal beings or something,

38:59 Speaker 6: and yeah, so it got pretty weird in the room.

39:02 Speaker 6: There's a bit of a pause when I did that

39:04 Speaker 6: on Capitol Hill, as.

39:05 Speaker 1: Well, so right, because that story to me, that one

39:11 Speaker 1: that that aspect of your story I find to be

39:16 Speaker 1: just as fascinating as what we're going to talk about.

39:20 Speaker 1: You know, when you when you come upon something, you know,

39:25 Speaker 1: being that this is non human, I wanted to ask,

39:32 Speaker 1: so okay, so we established that the grays there, there's

39:37 Speaker 1: something that that are the grays, there is something that

39:40 Speaker 1: the tall whites, and then obviously we have humans.

39:43 Speaker 2: Right, So did you ever hear any.

39:45 Speaker 1: Other phrase that would that would insinuate it is another

39:53 Speaker 1: bipedal type of non human entity.

39:58 Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's the reptilans, as I spoke of in

40:01 Speaker 6: the Joe Rogan show. That was the only that was

40:03 Speaker 6: the third one or third type that I had heard

40:06 Speaker 6: in the program. But every time that the reptilians were mentioned,

40:10 Speaker 6: it was quickly hushed up by one of the one

40:14 Speaker 6: or more of the people in the conversation realized that

40:16 Speaker 6: they shouldn't say anything, and it ended the conversation. So

40:21 Speaker 6: I knew very little about that. It only happened a

40:23 Speaker 6: few times, so there really wasn't much to go on

40:25 Speaker 6: other than the fact that they used the term reptilians

40:30 Speaker 6: and it was not as detailed as the other other

40:33 Speaker 6: phone call that I just mentioned to you about the

40:35 Speaker 6: tall whites and the graze, right.

40:37 Speaker 1: And again, these people don't know that they're being monitored.

40:40 Speaker 1: Yeah right, So they're acting like that while not knowing

40:45 Speaker 1: them being monitored because someone does listen in, like hey,

40:49 Speaker 1: cut that ship, cut it. When they were talking about

40:54 Speaker 1: the reptilians, did it sound like there was fear or

41:00 Speaker 1: a negative connotation when referring to them.

41:04 Speaker 6: It was like a best kept secret. It wasn't that

41:10 Speaker 6: I didn't detect that they were saying that the reptilians

41:12 Speaker 6: themselves were this or that, just that it was a

41:16 Speaker 6: taboo subject, okay, and that was how they referred kind

41:20 Speaker 6: of it left me feeling that they were just very

41:22 Speaker 6: uncomfortable talking about this as if yeah, as if somebody

41:25 Speaker 6: would hear that, hear them, and then they'd be in

41:28 Speaker 6: big trouble. That's kind of what south.

41:31 Speaker 2: Right.

41:32 Speaker 4: Yeah.

41:32 Speaker 1: So wow, I mean that's a lot so that that

41:36 Speaker 1: even just hearing those things, I mean, you start especially you, right,

41:40 Speaker 1: because you're you're a person who's really able to connect

41:44 Speaker 1: the dots, you know, with like you said, with the

41:46 Speaker 1: triggers and all that. So I mean by now, are

41:50 Speaker 1: you formulating like, no, I think I think they're I

41:54 Speaker 1: think there's non human people like intelligence working a law

42:00 Speaker 1: sign of human beings.

42:01 Speaker 6: In our laboratories. Yes, that's what That's what occurred to

42:05 Speaker 6: me almost immediately when I heard those types of phone calls. Yeah,

42:10 Speaker 6: my mind immediately went to, my gosh, we're talking about

42:14 Speaker 6: you know, possibly extraterrestrial people in our laboratories. I also

42:19 Speaker 6: instinctively knew that by virtue of the fact that the

42:22 Speaker 6: humans weren't even allowed in the laboratory environment, that it

42:25 Speaker 6: could not have been you know, a free for all,

42:29 Speaker 6: you know, kind of technology exchange either because why would

42:34 Speaker 6: they separate themselves like that? Why was the environment so

42:37 Speaker 6: controlled when the extraterrestrials were in there? And what it

42:41 Speaker 6: led me to believe in an analyst, is that the

42:43 Speaker 6: extraterrestrials manage it. They control how much they'd want to

42:47 Speaker 6: give and or not give in a situation that they

42:51 Speaker 6: don't agree with everything that goes on, and that they

42:55 Speaker 6: don't want us to have full rain in the technologies

42:58 Speaker 6: they have. Those are the kind of thing as an

43:00 Speaker 6: analyst where logical steps that I could take at that

43:02 Speaker 6: point just to know that this is the environment. It's

43:06 Speaker 6: not Koumbaia. It's kind of strained. It's very managed and controlled.

43:11 Speaker 2: Wow.

43:13 Speaker 1: Okay, so based on your based on everything that you

43:17 Speaker 1: know now, I know, kind of skipping ad we'll go back.

43:22 Speaker 2: Based on what you know now.

43:24 Speaker 1: About our government and how they may be working with

43:30 Speaker 1: non human intelligence. Have you deduced that any other government

43:37 Speaker 1: or nation could have a similar situation.

43:44 Speaker 6: Yes, I know that the friends I worked with, I've

43:48 Speaker 6: seen them in other locations around the world, And you

43:53 Speaker 6: know when I was in Germany for a while helping

43:59 Speaker 6: the Noble Operations and the Iraqi Freedom and all those

44:06 Speaker 6: kinds of things. Yes, they had offices that I knew

44:09 Speaker 6: that they were still in a program. So I know

44:12 Speaker 6: that it goes on elsewhere. And again, if I'm putting

44:16 Speaker 6: on my analyst hat, I could walk you logically through

44:18 Speaker 6: the thought process that if these crashes and retrievals are

44:23 Speaker 6: going on just in the contiguous you know, United States,

44:28 Speaker 6: that's a large land mask Well, Asia is even bigger

44:31 Speaker 6: than us, right, So it's quite possible they have their

44:34 Speaker 6: own retrieval program because they've probably seen the same things

44:37 Speaker 6: we've seen and are testing the same things that we're testing,

44:41 Speaker 6: and the same thing with Russia. You know, the same

44:44 Speaker 6: thing with maybe Indonesia and other places where some of

44:47 Speaker 6: these stories have been coming out of for years. In

44:50 Speaker 6: South America and Antarctica, even they really, you know, logically

44:56 Speaker 6: flows that if our land mask gets some of these retrievals,

45:00 Speaker 6: the rest of the world probably does too.

45:02 Speaker 1: Absolutely that, I mean, it's only the only logical next

45:07 Speaker 1: step for you know, because people always say, like, oh,

45:10 Speaker 1: why is it. It's always the United States. It's always

45:13 Speaker 1: the United No, it's not. Some of the best cases,

45:18 Speaker 1: the best, the most well known, and the best cases

45:21 Speaker 1: aren't in the United States. Randersom Forrest, the aerial school,

45:28 Speaker 1: you know from I think that's Zimbabwe, mm hmm.

45:31 Speaker 2: So so many other cases.

45:34 Speaker 1: Uh.

45:35 Speaker 2: In South America is just literate with the Virginia.

45:40 Speaker 6: Operation plates. Fox's favorite, Yeah.

45:48 Speaker 1: Camp Penis, and I love that. I love that he

45:52 Speaker 1: has to say those two things.

45:55 Speaker 6: He used to laugh at me because I always got

45:57 Speaker 6: the mispronounced.

46:01 Speaker 1: It's like it's begging for puns to be thrown in there.

46:07 Speaker 2: But all right, so well.

46:09 Speaker 6: Let me go one step further on the logic that

46:11 Speaker 6: other countries have probably got some retrievals as well, and

46:15 Speaker 6: that is that perhaps we are fractured in our culture,

46:23 Speaker 6: in our politics and around the globe. However, for the Nhi,

46:27 Speaker 6: if that is the common thread, like let's say that

46:30 Speaker 6: the same crashes that occurred in Roswell, the same beings

46:33 Speaker 6: happened to be doing some things in Russia, and there's

46:36 Speaker 6: been some contact from the same beings from the same

46:40 Speaker 6: you know, civilization. So there may be some common thread

46:45 Speaker 6: there as to what these Nhi, that maybe they've captured

46:47 Speaker 6: some living and surviving pilots as well, and that maybe

46:52 Speaker 6: the Nhi themselves are aware that, oh, well, yeah, we've

46:55 Speaker 6: had crashes elsewhere in the world, and maybe they're kind

46:59 Speaker 6: of helping out, like they're helping, you know, in the

47:01 Speaker 6: laboratory environments in the United States, but the Nhi in

47:06 Speaker 6: that case. To further the logic is that the Nhi

47:09 Speaker 6: themselves also are having a say as to how much

47:13 Speaker 6: involvement is going on between these different countries. And I

47:17 Speaker 6: think that that is very evident, and it's very much

47:20 Speaker 6: of their Nhi's choice as to how much they divulge

47:23 Speaker 6: about the total involvement on Earth as to what exactly

47:28 Speaker 6: that is in the context. So that's something that I

47:34 Speaker 6: would say, you know, raise my eyebrows. And as an analyst,

47:37 Speaker 6: you know it's that's a logical step as well, that

47:40 Speaker 6: the HI get to say what happens in the labs

47:43 Speaker 6: not only here, but also in Russia, China, you know,

47:47 Speaker 6: what have you?

47:48 Speaker 1: Who and whomever else may be working alongside or with

47:53 Speaker 1: And that would make a lot of sense because you know,

47:55 Speaker 1: we hear we hear this rhetoric. At least you know

47:58 Speaker 1: I hear it a lot. Is you know when speaking

48:02 Speaker 1: about like things like the Ukrainian War, people like, well,

48:06 Speaker 1: if Russia have reverse engineer.

48:07 Speaker 2: Technology, you know they would have used it already.

48:12 Speaker 1: And it's like, well, listen, you know, they may know

48:16 Speaker 1: that Russia is a bit more aggressive and would use

48:20 Speaker 1: this technology to further their expansion.

48:25 Speaker 2: Let's call it that.

48:28 Speaker 1: And for that reason alone, they're not getting the same

48:33 Speaker 1: access we're getting over here.

48:35 Speaker 6: It could be and it could just be by virtue

48:37 Speaker 6: of their culture. Maybe they NHI find them more tyrannical

48:42 Speaker 6: rather than freedom. I think a lot of times it

48:44 Speaker 6: would have read from other abductees. What have been told

48:48 Speaker 6: by other abductees is that when there has been a

48:51 Speaker 6: message given that there's a common thread in most of

48:55 Speaker 6: it where the Nhi are reaching out for a purpose,

48:59 Speaker 6: that they're here to courage us. Some people say that yes,

49:03 Speaker 6: they are testing us and examining us, and those sorts

49:07 Speaker 6: of things are probably ongoing. They may have been on

49:09 Speaker 6: going for thousands of years, right, And that's quite a

49:12 Speaker 6: possibility that, yeah, we are kind of being looked at

49:16 Speaker 6: and for whatever reason, and that may be the hidden

49:20 Speaker 6: cause behind they're being here, and that that is a

49:25 Speaker 6: highly sought after, you know, question for an answer to that,

49:33 Speaker 6: that that they seem to be holding back the mystery

49:36 Speaker 6: of it all because I think they would prefer us

49:39 Speaker 6: to have a free walk forward and advancing ourselves. It

49:46 Speaker 6: seems like it was very heavy handed. If you look

49:48 Speaker 6: back a few millennia, there were wars fought on this earth.

49:52 Speaker 6: It seems that there's a lot of manuscript and eyewitness

49:56 Speaker 6: accounts that that is is what's happened. There's been a

49:58 Speaker 6: lot of battles. There's the wooden plaque of Nuremberg and

50:05 Speaker 6: the sky pretty much being filled with all these objects

50:09 Speaker 6: that were all fighting on some of them crashing in

50:12 Speaker 6: farmers fields and things like this. And then you go

50:15 Speaker 6: back to Mahabarata where there's actually gods themselves claiming one

50:18 Speaker 6: side or the other in favor or against the humans.

50:22 Speaker 6: And there's natural cities and even radioactive sites right now

50:26 Speaker 6: even today that people are finding it hard to explain

50:30 Speaker 6: unless there was some sort of really large solar flare

50:33 Speaker 6: or something else. But even the vitreous, the vulcanized soil

50:39 Speaker 6: is a telltale sign that was probably more nuclear. So

50:44 Speaker 6: all these things add up in my mind, as like

50:46 Speaker 6: I said, as an analyst. As you can see, I'm

50:47 Speaker 6: kind of trying to lay it out as well for

50:50 Speaker 6: the listeners and your followers, because I want them to

50:53 Speaker 6: understand that there's more to you this. If you think

50:55 Speaker 6: your way through it in an organized way and take

50:59 Speaker 6: you know, these little tidbits of think of truth, you

51:02 Speaker 6: can actually find some threads and we can get a

51:04 Speaker 6: little further down the road with our analysis on what's

51:07 Speaker 6: actually going on. To me, it looks a lot like

51:09 Speaker 6: the Nhi do want to be here, They do want

51:13 Speaker 6: to see us get better. They always seem to be

51:18 Speaker 6: very sad that we don't realize our our own potential.

51:22 Speaker 6: That yeah, that's the Nurnberg.

51:26 Speaker 2: That was crazy.

51:27 Speaker 6: Yeah, isn't that Just imagine what those people back then.

51:31 Speaker 6: This was what four hundred years ago, I think, or

51:32 Speaker 6: the fourteen hundreds or something.

51:34 Speaker 1: Yep. Right, So I mean like and then, and you

51:38 Speaker 1: see how they're best representations of things are what they're

51:43 Speaker 1: using to represent whatever is fighting in the sky.

51:47 Speaker 2: And I just I.

51:48 Speaker 1: Find it really, really really intriguing the shapes that they

51:53 Speaker 1: use to the cigars with the circles in them, right,

51:59 Speaker 1: obviously that's like something that that you know, the tic

52:02 Speaker 1: Tac people.

52:03 Speaker 6: Everything we're saying today, it's right there in the plague.

52:06 Speaker 6: It's just what we would describe, right, And the same

52:11 Speaker 6: thing is said about you know, even in the Maha Brata.

52:13 Speaker 6: You know, it's got the same things mentioned, these balls,

52:16 Speaker 6: these cities flying in the air. You know, they saw

52:21 Speaker 6: the same things. The Bible describes it as well. You mean,

52:25 Speaker 6: even God himself is a pillar of cloud to the

52:27 Speaker 6: Israelites in the desert, and a pillar of fire you

52:31 Speaker 6: know by day or by night rather and a pillar

52:34 Speaker 6: of cloud during the day. So very much cylindrical shape,

52:39 Speaker 6: you know, just like we see in the placard from Nuremberg.

52:42 Speaker 6: So a lot of commonalities. These are things that analysts

52:46 Speaker 6: usually pay attention to. And you can you can start

52:50 Speaker 6: to make some baseline assumptions from that, and that's where

52:54 Speaker 6: we need to be with it. And I think that's

52:55 Speaker 6: why I feel that, you know, we need to really

52:59 Speaker 6: do a good job of going through some of the

53:01 Speaker 6: archives that people have. I mean, like Missus, Milton Howe

53:06 Speaker 6: and doctor Greer, move on. All these great people have

53:12 Speaker 6: great databases of eyewitness accounts. We need to start really

53:15 Speaker 6: sifting through those. And by the way, I'm not an

53:18 Speaker 6: advocate of somebody monopolizing all of them. I believe that

53:22 Speaker 6: having separate databases preserves their integrity more because a monopolized,

53:29 Speaker 6: you know, database can obviously be told to show the

53:34 Speaker 6: data only in one way that's favorable to the persons

53:37 Speaker 6: that own it, and I don't want to see that happen.

53:39 Speaker 6: I'd rather just have the raw data available. So anyway,

53:44 Speaker 6: these are things that I think ready to start approaching,

53:47 Speaker 6: and I think we have been and I think there's

53:49 Speaker 6: more people that are well informed that are ready to

53:53 Speaker 6: have that discussion, but they haven't been given a spotlight

53:56 Speaker 6: because there's too many people that are still at the

53:58 Speaker 6: beginning stages of even exploring all of this. But yeah,

54:02 Speaker 6: you're sure it's a really great artwork from love it.

54:07 Speaker 1: I love it because that for me is a huge

54:12 Speaker 1: tell tale or or a huge tale that I think. And

54:17 Speaker 1: I want to get your opinion on this, and we

54:19 Speaker 1: still have the the the encounter to get to.

54:25 Speaker 2: As an anal. I want you to approach this question

54:27 Speaker 2: as an analyst. Do you think that the the only

54:36 Speaker 2: thing or that.

54:39 Speaker 1: What we saw as gods quote unquote gods uh and

54:45 Speaker 1: and our our religion and and a lot of the

54:51 Speaker 1: tales around it, you know, the whether it's the Greek gods,

54:55 Speaker 1: the Nordic gods, whatever way.

54:57 Speaker 2: You want to go.

55:00 Speaker 1: Do you think that these could have been or may

55:02 Speaker 1: have been interpretations of what we would call modern day

55:08 Speaker 1: UFOs and aliens.

55:10 Speaker 6: Yes, if they're one and the same, as most people

55:14 Speaker 6: know it already knows them. A man of faith, I've

55:17 Speaker 6: not seen anything in the program or elsewhere that flies

55:21 Speaker 6: in the face of the fact that we're not alone.

55:24 Speaker 6: It distinctly states, like, for example, in the Bible, that

55:28 Speaker 6: there are other living beings. There's Serabim, there's Cherubim, there's

55:31 Speaker 6: several other types of angels. And it appears in the

55:36 Speaker 6: Bible that there was a war or at least a

55:39 Speaker 6: faction of these angels or beings that were cast as

55:43 Speaker 6: they state very succinctly in detailed wise to Earth, when

55:48 Speaker 6: they fell from grace. So if that's the case, we

55:52 Speaker 6: may be looking at these gods with a small g

55:55 Speaker 6: not a big g r as falling about the same

55:59 Speaker 6: timeands of years ago and doing some bad things, because

56:04 Speaker 6: that's the way it's described in a lot of these

56:06 Speaker 6: is that some of them were you know, teaching sciences

56:12 Speaker 6: and things like this, but they also taught some arcane

56:15 Speaker 6: things that were quite detrimental in some cases, and sometimes

56:20 Speaker 6: the technologies were used and killed many, many many people

56:24 Speaker 6: as well as other of these you know gods here.

56:29 Speaker 6: So we may have been maybe looking at all the

56:31 Speaker 6: same story that they were cast down here and that

56:37 Speaker 6: this is some sort of a i hate to say it,

56:40 Speaker 6: like a prison colony for them, and maybe they have

56:44 Speaker 6: a desire to see us succeed, because maybe that's the

56:47 Speaker 6: way according to the Bible, that they wanted to be

56:50 Speaker 6: redeemed for what they've done and for the Maha Barata,

56:55 Speaker 6: that they wanted to be worshiped or preserve mankind, depending

57:01 Speaker 6: on which god you're talking about in the Maha Barata, right,

57:04 Speaker 6: so there's all these different motivations that seem to be

57:07 Speaker 6: tied around all the different species that might have been

57:10 Speaker 6: here at one point, and they all come with different

57:12 Speaker 6: descriptions that again are echoed through the thousands of years.

57:16 Speaker 6: You know, blue people, ones that look like us, ones

57:19 Speaker 6: that look like beasts, you know, all these things. These

57:24 Speaker 6: are things that we're still seeing today.

57:26 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, absolutely, And that's why I wanted to ask

57:31 Speaker 1: that because I think it's like, you know, it's really

57:34 Speaker 1: important because you know, you talk about specifically, you talked

57:38 Speaker 1: about you know, the Fallen Angels, right, Well, okay, we

57:44 Speaker 1: look at that fallen Angels. Then some of those fallen

57:48 Speaker 1: angels had interactions with human women, right, and then we

57:53 Speaker 1: get Nephelin, right, so offspring.

57:57 Speaker 2: And now you know what is that that unlike to you?

58:01 Speaker 2: Right now?

58:02 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you abduction stories where they talk about

58:07 Speaker 1: a genetic some sort of genetic hybridization program.

58:13 Speaker 2: Is this something that that you know you've looked at

58:16 Speaker 2: as well?

58:17 Speaker 6: Yeah, I've looked at the genetic side of it. I

58:20 Speaker 6: think there's enough genetic data out there now to where

58:23 Speaker 6: people are starting to see you know, DNA and RNA

58:27 Speaker 6: a lot differently everybody's starting to agree that it's manipulatable,

58:34 Speaker 6: that you can turn on and off certain what they

58:36 Speaker 6: call junk genes and it does things to us. And

58:42 Speaker 6: that's why it's kind of dangerous because we don't really

58:44 Speaker 6: know what's switching some of these genomes on due to us.

58:48 Speaker 6: You know, do they cause cancers or there is a

58:50 Speaker 6: different benefit of maybe giving us the ability to read

58:53 Speaker 6: each other's minds. I don't know, but that's for science

58:57 Speaker 6: to dig around in and figure out. And it seems like, yeah,

59:00 Speaker 6: that's something that was that's been talked about for quite

59:05 Speaker 6: a while now, and I think they maybe have gotten

59:07 Speaker 6: a few answers to some of that, and maybe someone's

59:10 Speaker 6: kind of scary and they don't want to publish at all.

59:12 Speaker 6: I mean, we're having trouble enough just talking about clones.

59:16 Speaker 6: Is that even moral for us to do? You know,

59:19 Speaker 6: that kind of.

59:20 Speaker 1: Thing, and that that you know, it's funny that you

59:23 Speaker 1: mentioned that because everyone in the world, or at least

59:28 Speaker 1: everyone in the I shouldn't say.

59:29 Speaker 2: The world that was bad. Everyone in you know, in

59:32 Speaker 2: this community is like disclosure now, right, like we need it.

59:38 Speaker 1: Now, and it's like, okay, I listen, I get it.

59:42 Speaker 1: I get it, But you know, are we as a

59:47 Speaker 1: society as a species truly ready, Because I can guarantee

59:52 Speaker 1: you not all of disclosure is good.

59:56 Speaker 2: It's not.

59:57 Speaker 1: And there may be things like are we act actually

1:00:00 Speaker 1: ready to know that perhaps these are our makers? What

1:00:04 Speaker 1: would that do to us as psychologically? What would that

1:00:08 Speaker 1: do to us? And you know our motivation too, you know,

1:00:14 Speaker 1: become you know, a space fare and civilization?

1:00:17 Speaker 2: What would that do to us? All these things need

1:00:19 Speaker 2: to be looked.

1:00:20 Speaker 6: At, right And I think that we value other cultures,

1:00:28 Speaker 6: even amongst ourselves hereous humans, and I believe that intelligence

1:00:32 Speaker 6: races are kind of basically like that, And it would

1:00:37 Speaker 6: make sense to me that if there is other life

1:00:39 Speaker 6: out there, they are just as diverse and just as

1:00:42 Speaker 6: unique as we are, having maybe different amounts of like

1:00:49 Speaker 6: telepathic powers, having their own sets of history where they

1:00:56 Speaker 6: fought huge wars even in the star perhaps, and they

1:01:02 Speaker 6: can come from many walks of life as well. You know,

1:01:04 Speaker 6: some of them may not have a lot of problem

1:01:07 Speaker 6: giving themselves in their bodies physically to science while they're

1:01:11 Speaker 6: still alive, and maybe some of them are, you know,

1:01:15 Speaker 6: LifeWise abhorrent to that. There may be entire races that

1:01:20 Speaker 6: are you know, asexual or hermaphroditic, and the other ones

1:01:26 Speaker 6: that are like us that.

1:01:27 Speaker 2: Are binary and absolutely.

1:01:29 Speaker 6: Having a male and a female right. And then you know,

1:01:33 Speaker 6: whatever people want to do in their you know, private life,

1:01:36 Speaker 6: that's up to them. But that's the sexual expression according

1:01:40 Speaker 6: to me.

1:01:40 Speaker 2: But I love that.

1:01:43 Speaker 6: Yeah, so that you know, keep that to yourself. I

1:01:45 Speaker 6: don't sit there and talk about what I do with

1:01:47 Speaker 6: my wife or whatever, So please keep it to yourself.

1:01:49 Speaker 2: Go behind your yeah, exactly, exactly exactly.

1:01:53 Speaker 6: That's the way everybody's happier. I mean, nobody gets along.

1:01:56 Speaker 6: It seems like when everybody's in your in your face

1:01:59 Speaker 6: about it. But anyway, those are the kind of things

1:02:01 Speaker 6: I think that we're going to find out there is

1:02:02 Speaker 6: that there's all these different things, all these different cultures,

1:02:06 Speaker 6: all these different even forms of government that are stacked

1:02:10 Speaker 6: and layered one upon the other. Because you've got, you know,

1:02:14 Speaker 6: a planetary level government that owns certain resources for one planet,

1:02:19 Speaker 6: and even if the same species is another planet. As

1:02:22 Speaker 6: an analyst, I can logically think that if the resources

1:02:25 Speaker 6: are different on that planet, the government's going to have

1:02:27 Speaker 6: to change, the economy is going to change, there's going

1:02:29 Speaker 6: to be differences. So even amongst the same peoples in

1:02:33 Speaker 6: the universe, if they have two different resourced planets, they

1:02:37 Speaker 6: may have totally two different economies, two different forms of government,

1:02:41 Speaker 6: even being the same people, just like we would, I mean,

1:02:43 Speaker 6: we go to Mars, that's going to happen to us.

1:02:45 Speaker 6: There's only certain resources on Mars, you.

1:02:48 Speaker 1: Know, right, I don't wow, I can't believe I didn't

1:02:51 Speaker 1: think of that, but you're absolutely right. Like, so the

1:02:56 Speaker 1: first colonies on Mars, you know, let's just say that,

1:03:01 Speaker 1: you know, everything goes off without a hitch, right, and

1:03:04 Speaker 1: Elon puts a colony on Mars, they're going to have

1:03:07 Speaker 1: to decide how they're governed, how they govern themselves, and

1:03:12 Speaker 1: it may be radically different from how we do it

1:03:16 Speaker 1: here on Earth because of the circumstance. Yes, right, So

1:03:22 Speaker 1: that's a very interesting that's a very interesting thought experiment.

1:03:30 Speaker 6: Really to the fact that Elon might be an alien

1:03:35 Speaker 6: and maybe he's actually preparing the way for us because

1:03:38 Speaker 6: he realizes there's been too many influences here on Earth

1:03:43 Speaker 6: and he just wants to start fresh on the other planet.

1:03:45 Speaker 6: And maybe the aliens are ushering him in that way, right,

1:03:50 Speaker 6: a little bit.

1:03:51 Speaker 2: Sorry, while you did.

1:03:54 Speaker 1: Like fucking Zuckerberg right when he was what he was

1:03:57 Speaker 1: testifying in front of Augurs that dude looked more alien

1:04:03 Speaker 1: than any person, any single human I've ever seen, and

1:04:08 Speaker 1: you know, you look at them now.

1:04:10 Speaker 2: Someone clearly pulled.

1:04:11 Speaker 1: Him aside and was like, dude, you looked like there

1:04:16 Speaker 1: is there are now memes like people really think you're

1:04:20 Speaker 1: a reptilian, like grow your hair out, put on an

1:04:24 Speaker 1: oversized shirt, maybe get a gold chain, and.

1:04:28 Speaker 6: You know, yeah, you're right, honestly, there I have so

1:04:37 Speaker 6: many people asking me about what I know about reptilians.

1:04:41 Speaker 6: I wish I knew more, but some of them are

1:04:44 Speaker 6: you know, their logic takes them to the fact that

1:04:46 Speaker 6: they're walking around and they're able to disguise themselves, and

1:04:48 Speaker 6: that they're even in our government.

1:04:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is something that is truly terrifying.

1:04:57 Speaker 6: You know. Maybe that's the reason why everybody thought that

1:04:59 Speaker 6: the top of reptilians in the program is taboo, is

1:05:02 Speaker 6: that they know that they are trying to impersonate us

1:05:06 Speaker 6: and maybe trying to manipulate us in some way, shape

1:05:09 Speaker 6: or form. I don't know.

1:05:11 Speaker 1: Oh wow, I hadn't even Oh wow, that, right, and

1:05:17 Speaker 1: they don't so from their perspective, right, they're they're talking

1:05:21 Speaker 1: about it, or at least, you know, if it gets mentioned,

1:05:24 Speaker 1: they're like, you know, shut down, shut down, shut down,

1:05:26 Speaker 1: because maybe maybe they have infiltrated our government, maybe the

1:05:32 Speaker 1: program who knows, and you know, they don't want to

1:05:35 Speaker 1: get caught talking about it because you know, then that's

1:05:38 Speaker 1: maybe when you get paid like a real visit, and

1:05:41 Speaker 1: you know, you commit suicide by shooting yourself three times

1:05:45 Speaker 1: in the head. Right.

1:05:48 Speaker 6: Other people that say that they've encountered reptilians even shopping

1:05:53 Speaker 6: in places like home depot, you know, and that they've glitched,

1:05:59 Speaker 6: you know, the they're guy's got glitched and then they're

1:06:01 Speaker 6: very surprised to see that everybody was looking at them

1:06:04 Speaker 6: and they're like, I'm sorry, I'm just here to live

1:06:06 Speaker 6: my life. I'm like you, I'm just trying to make

1:06:08 Speaker 6: a living. I'm like, Wow, that blows my mind. Hearing

1:06:12 Speaker 6: a story like that. It just blows my mind.

1:06:14 Speaker 2: It true, like it really really does.

1:06:16 Speaker 1: It blows my mind because again, even if one of

1:06:19 Speaker 1: these stories is true, the implications are they're exponential, right,

1:06:27 Speaker 1: all right, so you had you you have not just

1:06:32 Speaker 1: heard you have not just seen craft in the sky.

1:06:40 Speaker 2: You were on the.

1:06:40 Speaker 1: Range and you were aheaded. Okay, actually I'll let you

1:06:45 Speaker 1: set the scene. But okay, so you're in the program

1:06:48 Speaker 1: at this time, right, so you're in the program.

1:06:54 Speaker 6: Time of the encounter. No, I've just been read out

1:06:56 Speaker 6: earlier that year.

1:06:58 Speaker 2: Oh you were done.

1:07:00 Speaker 6: Yeah, I was done. And this was the encounter occurs

1:07:03 Speaker 6: later the year in the year around October. It was cold,

1:07:06 Speaker 6: let me put it that way. And it was around October,

1:07:09 Speaker 6: maybe September, I don't know, but anyway, it was very cold,

1:07:13 Speaker 6: very windy that day. And I'm out of the program already.

1:07:16 Speaker 6: I've been out of the program for months because I

1:07:19 Speaker 6: think I got kicked out of the program in February

1:07:22 Speaker 6: for taking my kids during the weekend to try to

1:07:26 Speaker 6: take them to the zoo over the weekend.

1:07:28 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it was that that rigorous, like.

1:07:32 Speaker 6: Yep, very rigorous. They thought that was a huge problem.

1:07:35 Speaker 6: Nearly got me killed. Actually, they're planning on putting a

1:07:38 Speaker 6: bullet in my head over it at one point, and

1:07:42 Speaker 6: I think my friends came to my rescue on that.

1:07:44 Speaker 6: But I had to do something just as nasty. But

1:07:47 Speaker 6: at least I got I got to keep my life.

1:07:49 Speaker 6: But anyway, so yeah, that that I got kicked out

1:07:52 Speaker 6: earlier in the year. Here it is October now and

1:07:55 Speaker 6: I'm having this encounter.

1:07:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, so can you bring out this isn't you know

1:08:00 Speaker 1: you've probably heard this because it's James Fowx. But so

1:08:05 Speaker 1: I want to be riding in the convoy with you,

1:08:08 Speaker 1: So bring me back. I want to be in the

1:08:11 Speaker 1: convoy right there with you.

1:08:14 Speaker 2: And no detail is too small.

1:08:19 Speaker 1: The floor is yours. So you're you're you're in a convoy.

1:08:25 Speaker 1: I'll leave it there.

1:08:27 Speaker 6: Yeah, So the convoy from the previous two weeks during

1:08:32 Speaker 6: this particular red flag exercise on the Nels Test Range.

1:08:36 Speaker 6: The red flag exercise that we were doing was taking

1:08:39 Speaker 6: place on the top of Black Mountain where we did

1:08:42 Speaker 6: our operations from excuse me to run our missions from.

1:08:46 Speaker 6: So the previous team came into garrison the previous Friday

1:08:50 Speaker 6: before I went up on the next Monday, and they

1:08:55 Speaker 6: had seen the UFO come out onto the range that

1:08:59 Speaker 6: was captured on the range cameras themselves, and it was

1:09:03 Speaker 6: also tracked on the kind of radar these video cameras

1:09:10 Speaker 6: track aircraft. Because these videos are very important to the

1:09:14 Speaker 6: Red flag exercises, especially if a pilot is in trouble

1:09:18 Speaker 6: or crashes, they have video to review and figure out

1:09:21 Speaker 6: what happened. So it's very important that these videos are

1:09:25 Speaker 6: accurate and that they can track the craft as they

1:09:28 Speaker 6: come into view. So they're all talking about this craft

1:09:33 Speaker 6: having come in the previous week and it flew right

1:09:37 Speaker 6: back by Black Mountain in the valley between, and so

1:09:41 Speaker 6: a lot of people had seen it and they're pretty

1:09:43 Speaker 6: excited that Friday, and I happened to be there because

1:09:46 Speaker 6: I'm getting turnover from them as the next crew going up,

1:09:50 Speaker 6: and they started talking and they were saying all sorts

1:09:53 Speaker 6: of things that I don't know what it was, but

1:09:55 Speaker 6: you're talking to people I'm talking about people like myself

1:09:59 Speaker 6: who literally seeing everything that our allies fly, everything that

1:10:03 Speaker 6: we fly in our inventory in the United States Air Force,

1:10:06 Speaker 6: the Army, you name it. We've seen the bombers, the fighters,

1:10:09 Speaker 6: the helicopters, what have you. And people were like, I

1:10:14 Speaker 6: have no idea what this is. So this was a

1:10:16 Speaker 6: strange occasion, to say the least, because you've got a

1:10:19 Speaker 6: lot of people that know how that have to know

1:10:20 Speaker 6: how to identify craft. Yeah, that's their job to know.

1:10:25 Speaker 2: This, so I don't want to. I'm sorry. I'm really

1:10:29 Speaker 2: am sorry to cut you off. I did not the

1:10:33 Speaker 2: I have that video and.

1:10:37 Speaker 6: Real quick, Yeah, that'd be awesome because then everybody could

1:10:40 Speaker 6: all your viewers can.

1:10:41 Speaker 1: See that, right and because I've actually I have some

1:10:45 Speaker 1: questions about some of the things that are seeing.

1:10:48 Speaker 2: So this is kind of like a loop. But let's play.

1:10:52 Speaker 2: Let's play this video. The sound isn't great about.

1:11:08 Speaker 4: That's why.

1:11:28 Speaker 2: It's by a house, house and going like.

1:11:32 Speaker 1: How happens by houses?

1:11:39 Speaker 4: Going to s m hm, here we are. I got

1:12:03 Speaker 4: capn't even know.

1:12:23 Speaker 6: Yam, I am, that's it. That's what I saw. So

1:12:50 Speaker 6: that's what everybody saw that that that week.

1:12:53 Speaker 1: So I I obviously the audio is I mean, it's

1:12:56 Speaker 1: it's a nineteen ninety four video, so do you do

1:12:59 Speaker 1: come rush in? And you know, so many other factors

1:13:03 Speaker 1: the quality of the video and the sound quality it's

1:13:07 Speaker 1: not great.

1:13:07 Speaker 2: But there's like this like squiggly line. I've always wondered

1:13:12 Speaker 2: what that is.

1:13:14 Speaker 6: That's that lock on mechanism that's on the camera. It's

1:13:16 Speaker 6: trying to lock on to the craft. If you if

1:13:19 Speaker 6: you look at the whole video, you see the camera

1:13:23 Speaker 6: trying to lock on, and when it finally does, it

1:13:26 Speaker 6: goes up in a spike. But you see it kind

1:13:29 Speaker 6: of panning to the right and to the left. It's

1:13:31 Speaker 6: scanning trying to lock on. But the craft itself is jamming.

1:13:35 Speaker 6: The signal is what's going on. At least that's what

1:13:37 Speaker 6: the technicians that recorded.

1:13:39 Speaker 1: It said, and that if I'm not mistaken, if so,

1:13:42 Speaker 1: if you're if it's an unknown craft, and if you

1:13:46 Speaker 1: are jamming, technically that is an act of war.

1:13:51 Speaker 6: Well, yes, and those particular frequent there's a lot of

1:13:56 Speaker 6: frequencies that the craft when you're playing on the exercise

1:14:00 Speaker 6: range there at Nell's Test Range, you're told not to

1:14:04 Speaker 6: transmit on because they're used to do things like monitoring

1:14:08 Speaker 6: the range. And that's why these frequencies were not supposed

1:14:12 Speaker 6: to be messed with or jammed and all this other stuff.

1:14:15 Speaker 6: So whatever is jamming this particular piece of equipment is,

1:14:19 Speaker 6: it's not supposed to be on those frequencies if it

1:14:21 Speaker 6: is something that we know about, like one of our

1:14:23 Speaker 6: own craft, because they would literally have a list of

1:14:27 Speaker 6: all the frequencies they would leave off their equipment so

1:14:31 Speaker 6: that it would not transmit on those frequencies. So that's

1:14:35 Speaker 6: a lower distinction I can give you is that those

1:14:37 Speaker 6: are the kind of things that don't make sense with

1:14:39 Speaker 6: the video. This is definitely not a usual craft coming

1:14:42 Speaker 6: out of the range. This is something that is literally

1:14:45 Speaker 6: actively jamming that signal on a frequency that shouldn't be

1:14:48 Speaker 6: it shouldn't be on. Okay.

1:14:51 Speaker 1: So with all that, like with everything you just said,

1:14:56 Speaker 1: plus it being one of the mode sensitive areas, why

1:15:04 Speaker 1: are they not opening why are they not kinetically engaging?

1:15:10 Speaker 6: Oh you mean the range operators?

1:15:13 Speaker 2: Yeah? Why why did they allow this thing to fly

1:15:15 Speaker 2: into the range?

1:15:16 Speaker 6: Why aren't they This was a surprise craft the only time, Well,

1:15:20 Speaker 6: you got, everything is orchestrated. First of all, if they're

1:15:23 Speaker 6: going to use live bombs, live firing ranges and things

1:15:26 Speaker 6: like this, even the sand sites or the Service to

1:15:31 Speaker 6: air missile sites that simulate weaponry flying, you know, missiles

1:15:37 Speaker 6: being shot at the craft, those were all faked. So

1:15:40 Speaker 6: there's no real kinetic missiles on any of the launch

1:15:45 Speaker 6: pads unless there's a damn good reason for it. And

1:15:48 Speaker 6: they're conducting a particular trust test on a drone and

1:15:51 Speaker 6: trying to see if they can shoot it down. But

1:15:54 Speaker 6: if you've got live pilots. You're not shooting down live

1:15:57 Speaker 6: pilots along with that, so you this totally makes no

1:16:00 Speaker 6: sense for that. But yeah, there is no live firing

1:16:05 Speaker 6: on most occasions unless you're actively in in the mode

1:16:11 Speaker 6: of what we call an AM or a PM push,

1:16:14 Speaker 6: which means that somebody said, okay, fight on, let's play

1:16:18 Speaker 6: war now, and then only those people that are needed

1:16:21 Speaker 6: to be able to drop live bombs or are going

1:16:23 Speaker 6: to drop live bombs. You don't shoot real bullets at

1:16:26 Speaker 6: your your friends or your allies, which is what we

1:16:28 Speaker 6: do when we're practicing. We don't kill our allies while

1:16:31 Speaker 6: we're practicing. So obviously that's all orchestrated, and that's that's

1:16:36 Speaker 6: the mentality people need to come after this with, is

1:16:39 Speaker 6: that we're not actively shooting planes out of the sky

1:16:41 Speaker 6: on the those test range unless there's a test on

1:16:44 Speaker 6: a drone.

1:16:47 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, all right, that makes sense. So with that

1:16:50 Speaker 1: being said, there's a lot of buzz. So this takes

1:16:54 Speaker 1: place one is it what how many days from this

1:16:59 Speaker 1: incident or roughly if you if you don't mind, from

1:17:04 Speaker 1: then your incident that we're about to get into.

1:17:07 Speaker 6: Okay, this was that movie was or that film is

1:17:10 Speaker 6: from the previous Friday. From what I understand, I came

1:17:16 Speaker 6: up to the range on Monday and had a second

1:17:19 Speaker 6: encounter with the same craft, but I also met the

1:17:22 Speaker 6: pilot right so that's what happened the following Monday. Because

1:17:26 Speaker 6: we all come every two weeks. Again, you know, two

1:17:29 Speaker 6: weeks is kind of a good timeframe for folks to

1:17:32 Speaker 6: change out. But the old team would come back in

1:17:36 Speaker 6: and the new team would go back up, so it's

1:17:40 Speaker 6: kind of a change of the team. So we're convoying up.

1:17:43 Speaker 6: We all ended up. It takes about two hours from

1:17:46 Speaker 6: Nellis to get to Black Mountain, or not Black Mountain,

1:17:51 Speaker 6: but up to Baty, which is where we were staying

1:17:54 Speaker 6: at a hotel called the burrow In. It's a very

1:17:59 Speaker 6: small town, but that's the hotel we chose. And then

1:18:04 Speaker 6: from the burrow In each morning we would take off

1:18:07 Speaker 6: in a convoy in our Chevy Blazers. They all were

1:18:10 Speaker 6: camouflaged four wheel drives. Because the roads suck on the

1:18:13 Speaker 6: test rains all dirt, very very seldom do you run

1:18:17 Speaker 6: into a paved area. So we're all convoying up in

1:18:22 Speaker 6: about three vehicles, probably about two to three people per vehicle.

1:18:26 Speaker 6: Sometimes four. It kind of depends on who cold shotgun. Anyway,

1:18:34 Speaker 6: we all get in there start convoying up for the

1:18:37 Speaker 6: day on that first Monday when I'm there, so I'm

1:18:41 Speaker 6: traveling up range for with about ten to fifteen other individuals.

1:18:46 Speaker 6: I can't quite remember exactly how many, because sometimes we

1:18:50 Speaker 6: had additional on certain weeks. But anyway, we're taken off.

1:18:55 Speaker 6: We go into the front gate and the lead the

1:18:58 Speaker 6: guy I'm in the lead vehicle with the ranking person

1:19:01 Speaker 6: who's driving the vehicle. I'm right behind him. There's a

1:19:05 Speaker 6: person to his right in the passenger seat, and there's

1:19:08 Speaker 6: also a young lady to my right, so there's four

1:19:11 Speaker 6: people in in the lead vehicle with me, you know,

1:19:13 Speaker 6: there's three other people other than me. So we're heading

1:19:17 Speaker 6: up and then that's when the ranking guy says, hey,

1:19:21 Speaker 6: we're going to stop off at the contoonment area, which

1:19:24 Speaker 6: is just inside the gate, and it's a place, you know,

1:19:28 Speaker 6: where you could cast up your car, change tires if

1:19:31 Speaker 6: you need to, you know, just do some general maintenance.

1:19:33 Speaker 6: But there's also a couple of what we call shacks,

1:19:37 Speaker 6: which are more or less just like mobile homes that

1:19:39 Speaker 6: are outfitted to do certain things and one of them's

1:19:42 Speaker 6: for the video operators, and he said, we have to

1:19:45 Speaker 6: go talk to the video operators because I guess he

1:19:48 Speaker 6: was there the week before and saw the UFO, and

1:19:51 Speaker 6: that previous week he was very loath to talk about it.

1:19:54 Speaker 6: He kept shaking his head every time anybody asked him

1:19:57 Speaker 6: about it. No, Nope, don't want to talk about it.

1:20:01 Speaker 6: So he'd seen the UFO and now we're going to

1:20:03 Speaker 6: review the tape and from the video operators, because the

1:20:07 Speaker 6: video operators wanted to talk to us as well, because

1:20:09 Speaker 6: they knew that it flew by Black Mountain where we worked.

1:20:13 Speaker 6: So we all went in, we all reviewed the tape.

1:20:16 Speaker 6: Our names were on a list of paper on a

1:20:18 Speaker 6: paper piece of paper that the video operator gave us,

1:20:20 Speaker 6: and he showed us all the video and people that

1:20:23 Speaker 6: had been there the previous week wrote down, yes, I

1:20:26 Speaker 6: did see this for real and all that good stuff.

1:20:30 Speaker 6: So somebody's got that piece of paper. It's probably worth

1:20:33 Speaker 6: its weight in gold at this point, because that's the

1:20:37 Speaker 6: piece of paper. You're going to get all the people's

1:20:39 Speaker 6: names that were there that reviewed that tape and actually

1:20:42 Speaker 6: had had had the names annotated as to who actually

1:20:45 Speaker 6: saw the craft. The previous week as well. So anyway,

1:20:51 Speaker 6: we get done, and as I'm going out the door,

1:20:54 Speaker 6: this lady who'd been sitting there looking shocked the whole time,

1:20:57 Speaker 6: next to this other guy against the other wall, she

1:21:00 Speaker 6: stops me and just says, there's there's there's somebody on

1:21:03 Speaker 6: the on the range. Don't talk to him. You can't

1:21:06 Speaker 6: talk to him. I'm like, all right, thanks, strange lady.

1:21:08 Speaker 6: I'll see you later. I gotta go work.

1:21:09 Speaker 4: Yeah.

1:21:10 Speaker 6: So sure enough, though, within about you know, a short

1:21:14 Speaker 6: distance from the Contonin area, about a mile down the

1:21:17 Speaker 6: road between this Contonin area and a mountain we call

1:21:20 Speaker 6: quartz Quartz Mountain probably aptly named. It's a court, you know,

1:21:25 Speaker 6: it has a lot of quartz around it. But anyway,

1:21:29 Speaker 6: we encounter this person running towards us. Looks like he's

1:21:34 Speaker 6: wearing the same kind of uniform we are. And I

1:21:36 Speaker 6: looked to the left, and sure enough, there's the craft

1:21:39 Speaker 6: that was in the video we just saw, sitting or

1:21:43 Speaker 6: resting on the desert floor. And it looks really weird,

1:21:48 Speaker 6: and I'm trying to make heads or tails of what

1:21:50 Speaker 6: it is, and I can't make it out either. But

1:21:52 Speaker 6: as we're getting closer and approaching this person that's, you know,

1:21:55 Speaker 6: hailing us from the side of the road. I start

1:21:59 Speaker 6: to get concerned for this individual because I'm noticing that

1:22:01 Speaker 6: his skin tone looks like he's getting hypothermic. So he

1:22:04 Speaker 6: looked like you had like human albino ish, very white skin,

1:22:09 Speaker 6: but it had this blue tone to it, like he

1:22:11 Speaker 6: was starting to freeze to death. So I was starting

1:22:13 Speaker 6: to think I needed to get out of the car

1:22:16 Speaker 6: and get out of the vehicle and administer aid. And

1:22:20 Speaker 6: I just remember telling the ranking individual, we need to

1:22:24 Speaker 6: slow down and stop. This guy needs help. And we

1:22:28 Speaker 6: got closer and closer, and then as we got about

1:22:31 Speaker 6: maybe ten feet away, as a passenger in the front seats,

1:22:34 Speaker 6: he screams he's got no ears, and I was like, well,

1:22:38 Speaker 6: that's kind of rude. This guy's probably dying and you're

1:22:40 Speaker 6: talking about his ears. And at the same time opening

1:22:43 Speaker 6: up the door trying to get my jacket off because

1:22:46 Speaker 6: I'm starting to think I got to pull my jacket off,

1:22:48 Speaker 6: get this guy warmed up, get him inside the car,

1:22:52 Speaker 6: and getting or get him inside the vehicle to.

1:22:53 Speaker 4: Warm him up.

1:22:55 Speaker 6: Those are the things that are running through my mind.

1:22:56 Speaker 6: So I step out onto the roadway trying to get

1:23:00 Speaker 6: my jacket off, and I closed the door and I

1:23:03 Speaker 6: look up at the guy and I'm like, holy crap,

1:23:06 Speaker 6: what is this. The guy doesn't have any ears. I'm

1:23:09 Speaker 6: looking at the ears. Usually, if there's a mutation in

1:23:15 Speaker 6: us humans, it's not symmetric. This guy's ears were perfectly symmetric.

1:23:20 Speaker 6: It just looked like his skin around his ears was

1:23:22 Speaker 6: conformed to his skull rather than sticking out, so that

1:23:27 Speaker 6: didn't bode well. And then I get a look at

1:23:29 Speaker 6: his eyes and I'm like, holy crap, those are huge.

1:23:32 Speaker 6: And that's what really struck me. And I got really

1:23:34 Speaker 6: scared at that point because I was like convinced. I

1:23:38 Speaker 6: was like, this is not a human being. This guy

1:23:40 Speaker 6: is not from this planet. Kind of a feeling hit me,

1:23:43 Speaker 6: and I was like, what if I just gotten myself

1:23:45 Speaker 6: into kind of a thing. So thankfully he started talking

1:23:49 Speaker 6: to me. It was not the same language, it was

1:23:52 Speaker 6: not English, but I understood everything he was saying. And

1:23:56 Speaker 6: I've been asked a number of different times, how would

1:23:58 Speaker 6: you describe that? Well, the reason I knew it was

1:24:03 Speaker 6: probably telepathic is because you know how you and I

1:24:07 Speaker 6: can talk right now, like you're assigning meaning to words

1:24:12 Speaker 6: as I'm speaking them, and at the same time I'm

1:24:15 Speaker 6: articulating words, but the meaning is actually being assigned just

1:24:18 Speaker 6: before it comes out of my mouth. But it happened

1:24:20 Speaker 6: so quickly we don't even notice. So I'm noticing that

1:24:24 Speaker 6: there's just a hair's breadth of a of the meaning

1:24:28 Speaker 6: coming before the words he speaks. So I'm understanding everything

1:24:32 Speaker 6: as if he's speaking my common language. But it sounds

1:24:37 Speaker 6: kind of like a weird version of Nordic.

1:24:40 Speaker 2: So there was auditory.

1:24:43 Speaker 1: Noises coming from from the being, and then it was

1:24:50 Speaker 1: changing in you know, like it was.

1:24:54 Speaker 2: Instantly translating in your head.

1:24:57 Speaker 6: Or yes, it was instantly translating. I'm sorry, I have

1:25:00 Speaker 6: to go get my uh my charging cord. My batteries

1:25:03 Speaker 6: going low.

1:25:05 Speaker 2: Actually yeah, okay, we'll pause then, so.

1:25:11 Speaker 6: Let me grab this. I'll sit at my desk. Yeah,

1:25:15 Speaker 6: no words, I've been too comfortable on my couch.

1:25:19 Speaker 2: I liked it.

1:25:23 Speaker 6: Okay, okay, let me go get my little box here.

1:25:37 Speaker 6: It's a prop my phone up.

1:25:39 Speaker 2: Yep, do like I said, do you?

1:25:42 Speaker 4: What's that?

1:25:43 Speaker 2: I said?

1:25:44 Speaker 6: Do you?

1:25:45 Speaker 2: I took notes so I got the time stamp.

1:25:48 Speaker 6: Okay, good, there we go. They're good.

1:25:57 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, all right, there two one.

1:26:04 Speaker 6: So there ANT standing on the shoulder of this road

1:26:09 Speaker 6: talking to this being and he's asking me questions to telepathically,

1:26:14 Speaker 6: and it calms me down somewhat because instead of being fearful,

1:26:18 Speaker 6: he's asking me questions because he describes the fact that

1:26:22 Speaker 6: this craft is broken and needs repair. He needs a

1:26:28 Speaker 6: certain kind of material that I didn't know what it

1:26:30 Speaker 6: was at the time. I have a lot of people

1:26:32 Speaker 6: telling me that, you know, I mispronounce it, but it's

1:26:35 Speaker 6: tight tintillium, is what I've been told by everybody that

1:26:38 Speaker 6: that's probably what he was saying.

1:26:41 Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask for clarification because I've I've

1:26:44 Speaker 1: heard on multi or on a couple of shows, and

1:26:47 Speaker 1: and I don't fault you for this, by the way,

1:26:50 Speaker 1: I think, because it's it's so it's one of those

1:26:54 Speaker 1: things where you know you don't know what he's talking about.

1:26:58 Speaker 1: So it's you know, you've you've you've mentioned it a

1:27:04 Speaker 1: different times, but it always sounds similar to.

1:27:09 Speaker 3: Some you know what you do well.

1:27:12 Speaker 6: I used to say trenttilion, tintillium, tantillium, something like that, right,

1:27:16 Speaker 6: But now I've been told stop doing that, just say

1:27:20 Speaker 6: till okay, and I'm like, okay, so we're settled up

1:27:23 Speaker 6: now scientifically with my scientific friends that say it's probably

1:27:27 Speaker 6: ten tillium, and I'm trying to keep yours. So I'm like, okay.

1:27:31 Speaker 6: So anyway, even at that point, you know, I'm not

1:27:34 Speaker 6: you know, even if I had remembered exactly what he

1:27:36 Speaker 6: had said as being tintillium, I'm like, I don't know

1:27:39 Speaker 6: what that is. Do you mean like titanium? And he's like, no,

1:27:42 Speaker 6: that's not what I'm looking for. And he's and I

1:27:45 Speaker 6: was like, well, I had just been, you know, kicked

1:27:49 Speaker 6: out of the program. And you can see part of

1:27:51 Speaker 6: the Groom Lake Mountain Range to our north and east.

1:27:55 Speaker 6: So I pointed towards the range and I said to him,

1:27:58 Speaker 6: they might have some of that material for you, and

1:28:00 Speaker 6: he's like, this wave of telepathic emotion just came over

1:28:04 Speaker 6: me of disgust, and I was like thinking, At first,

1:28:10 Speaker 6: I was like, why am I so disgusted? And then

1:28:12 Speaker 6: I realized it was coming from him. And he also

1:28:16 Speaker 6: said that he thought of them as barbarians and murderers,

1:28:20 Speaker 6: and I thought, well, that's not too good, you know,

1:28:23 Speaker 6: and I started thinking I want to help him, and

1:28:26 Speaker 6: he's like, yeah, do you have any other suggestions. I'm

1:28:28 Speaker 6: not going to go talk to those people.

1:28:31 Speaker 2: So he was in a state where he.

1:28:34 Speaker 1: So, no, he's not just translating, correct, he's not just

1:28:40 Speaker 1: translating words to you, but you're feeling the emotion that

1:28:45 Speaker 1: he has right exactly.

1:28:48 Speaker 6: We're actually sharing mind space. It's like, right now, if

1:28:52 Speaker 6: I'm if I can telepathically do what he did to me,

1:28:55 Speaker 6: you and I would feel the same emotions. You and

1:28:59 Speaker 6: I would feel like your own inner voice inside your

1:29:03 Speaker 6: own head and your own emotions because we're sharing our.

1:29:07 Speaker 1: Mind so kind of like so it's it for a

1:29:12 Speaker 1: broad not broad, but almost like entangling of consciousness, your consciousness.

1:29:19 Speaker 6: Yes. And it turns out that after I got interviewed

1:29:23 Speaker 6: by the UAP Task Force in twenty twenty two, also

1:29:28 Speaker 6: when David Grush interviewed me, that I had residual data

1:29:34 Speaker 6: in my memories that he was able to drag out

1:29:37 Speaker 6: in the interview because he's very good at interviewing folks.

1:29:40 Speaker 6: David is And it's like, I had this star map

1:29:44 Speaker 6: that was emblazoned in my head for some reason, and

1:29:46 Speaker 6: I mentioned that to him and he just said, this

1:29:51 Speaker 6: is the constellation Leo, and I said, really, I didn't know,

1:29:54 Speaker 6: you know, because I'm not big on stars, but he

1:29:56 Speaker 6: knew what it was. And then he asked me about

1:29:58 Speaker 6: the Red Star and in my you know, drawing, and

1:30:03 Speaker 6: that's when I realized I knew more about that Red

1:30:05 Speaker 6: Star than I should have. Ended up that I felt

1:30:09 Speaker 6: as though this was the world that this being had

1:30:11 Speaker 6: come from, or the star system that he lived in

1:30:16 Speaker 6: where he came from, And David Crush was like, yeah,

1:30:20 Speaker 6: it's kind of unusual. We just found exo planets around

1:30:23 Speaker 6: that sun just recently, and he's like, you shouldn't you know,

1:30:28 Speaker 6: it's possible that maybe he came from one of those.

1:30:30 Speaker 6: I was like, I didn't know that, but sure, yeah,

1:30:32 Speaker 6: sounds good to me. So that was a piece of

1:30:35 Speaker 6: new information. But here it was all I saw initially

1:30:38 Speaker 6: was this star map. However, there was this residual information

1:30:42 Speaker 6: that apparently he had shared with me, and sometimes I

1:30:46 Speaker 6: get like these little flashes of memory that come from him,

1:30:49 Speaker 6: not me. And the other thing that was strange is

1:30:53 Speaker 6: that his demeanor telepathically was much more organized, much more

1:30:59 Speaker 6: civilized than my own. And the way that I would

1:31:02 Speaker 6: describe it is if you and I had learned to

1:31:04 Speaker 6: communicate with our minds, we would be just as courteous

1:31:08 Speaker 6: and respectful with our minds and our thoughts and controlling

1:31:11 Speaker 6: them as we do in normal verbal conversation, you know who,

1:31:18 Speaker 6: because the way we run around, I think a lot

1:31:20 Speaker 6: of times is people are like, oh squirrel, oh that

1:31:23 Speaker 6: girl's got a nice but oh yeah, we'll look at that. Yeah,

1:31:25 Speaker 6: you all that kind of stuff is going on. He

1:31:31 Speaker 6: was not like that at all. He was totally focused,

1:31:33 Speaker 6: He was totally respectful, and his attention and respect you

1:31:37 Speaker 6: could even feel it coming at me, you know, between us,

1:31:40 Speaker 6: there was a mutual civility and respect that we both

1:31:44 Speaker 6: shared during that entire time, and actually that remains with

1:31:47 Speaker 6: me to this day because I've always wanted to be

1:31:51 Speaker 6: that controlled. I've always wanted to be that civilized in

1:31:54 Speaker 6: my own thought process. And you can do it. You

1:31:57 Speaker 6: actually can do it. You just have to realize that,

1:32:01 Speaker 6: you know, it's in the scope of possible that you

1:32:04 Speaker 6: can control your thoughts and emotions. Just as anybody would

1:32:07 Speaker 6: tell you if if you're into prayer, meditation, trying to

1:32:10 Speaker 6: live a better life, Yeah, it's just you've got to

1:32:13 Speaker 6: wake up one day and realize I can do this.

1:32:16 Speaker 6: It's really just me getting in the way because I'm

1:32:18 Speaker 6: not allowing my mind to think I can do it.

1:32:20 Speaker 6: And that's really what I felt like ever since then,

1:32:22 Speaker 6: is that, no, stop being stupid. You're just being a

1:32:25 Speaker 6: stupid human. Try to aspire to be more. So that's

1:32:28 Speaker 6: remained with me ever since.

1:32:30 Speaker 2: Okay, and that's so anyway.

1:32:33 Speaker 6: Telepath telepathy then was part of the conversation. I didn't

1:32:37 Speaker 6: know where to point him, so he began to walk

1:32:40 Speaker 6: off the roadway. There was no goodbye or salutations with that.

1:32:44 Speaker 6: He just got in his craft. He gets in the

1:32:48 Speaker 6: cockpit and he takes off over the roadway, and about

1:32:52 Speaker 6: the same time, all I look over in the vehicle

1:32:58 Speaker 6: to all my friends and it looked as if they

1:33:01 Speaker 6: were coming out of some kind of a trance or something.

1:33:05 Speaker 6: So I don't know whether they even remember the event.

1:33:08 Speaker 6: But I got back in the car because it was

1:33:11 Speaker 6: freaking cold. I had given him my what they call

1:33:17 Speaker 6: the liner to my jacket. I had an outer jacket

1:33:20 Speaker 6: that I kept with me, so I've got my inner

1:33:23 Speaker 6: jacket that was floating around in space somewhere, I guess

1:33:25 Speaker 6: with him, but he initially refused to take it from

1:33:30 Speaker 6: me and said he was okay, but I'm like, no,

1:33:32 Speaker 6: it's freezing cold out here, you know, please take this,

1:33:34 Speaker 6: And he graciously took it from me and I put

1:33:38 Speaker 6: on my jacket. But some you know, so James Fox

1:33:41 Speaker 6: and I have a good laugh about that too. He's like, oh,

1:33:43 Speaker 6: jacket's flying around uranus. Yeah, he's probably right.

1:33:48 Speaker 2: So anyway, so he you had there were some details

1:33:54 Speaker 2: about him, so he looked. I showed the picture already.

1:34:01 Speaker 1: So from the picture I discern that he is wearing

1:34:05 Speaker 1: what looks if you drew this, so it looks like

1:34:10 Speaker 1: he's in like candies.

1:34:11 Speaker 6: Like he It's exactly what we were wearing. That's why

1:34:15 Speaker 6: I when I posted this on the Top Secret forum

1:34:19 Speaker 6: for the UAP Task Force, the forum that we had

1:34:22 Speaker 6: that you know, if you're an intel WEENI you can

1:34:27 Speaker 6: Intel community person, you can actually go in there and

1:34:30 Speaker 6: contribute to it if you've got some way to you know,

1:34:33 Speaker 6: offer more information to help analyze. So that's where I

1:34:37 Speaker 6: put in the rest of this story. And some of

1:34:42 Speaker 6: the people there are analysts just like me, and I

1:34:45 Speaker 6: kind of favor one of the theories they had as

1:34:47 Speaker 6: to why he was wearing a uniform that looked like ours,

1:34:50 Speaker 6: and the craft that he was in was actually needing

1:34:54 Speaker 6: to be repaired, is he? They asked me, They said, well,

1:34:57 Speaker 6: would it make sense to you that maybe had an

1:34:58 Speaker 6: altercation or of some kind at you know, Dreamland or

1:35:03 Speaker 6: at Groom Lake and was escaping and they shot at

1:35:06 Speaker 6: his craft and damaged it, and that he was actually

1:35:09 Speaker 6: working with us in the program, and that's why he

1:35:13 Speaker 6: was given a uniform that looks like ours. And I

1:35:16 Speaker 6: was like, yeah, that kind of makes sense, honestly, And

1:35:19 Speaker 6: that also explains why he was disgusted with those people

1:35:23 Speaker 6: because they had shot.

1:35:24 Speaker 2: At him, calling them borderers and barbarians.

1:35:27 Speaker 6: Yes, right, So that came like months and months later though,

1:35:31 Speaker 6: after we analyzed and I'd been able to talk to

1:35:34 Speaker 6: all these really great people that you know, they come

1:35:37 Speaker 6: from all kinds of walks of life, and you'll never

1:35:39 Speaker 6: hear me talk badly about them, even though some of

1:35:41 Speaker 6: them adamantly disagreed with me, they did not want to

1:35:45 Speaker 6: have Ufosraelians exist at all, but I appreciated their debate anyway.

1:35:51 Speaker 6: But those are the kind of people that really brought

1:35:56 Speaker 6: some things out that I had not really thought about.

1:35:59 Speaker 6: And that's why you appreciate having a form like that

1:36:03 Speaker 6: that's full of analysts is there's so many more opinions

1:36:06 Speaker 6: and more ways of thinking it through that I had

1:36:08 Speaker 6: never thought that there had been, you know, a possibility

1:36:11 Speaker 6: of an altercation right there at Groom Lake with this individual,

1:36:15 Speaker 6: and that that's what he was escaping and why he

1:36:18 Speaker 6: needed help.

1:36:20 Speaker 2: And do you think that could be why the woman

1:36:23 Speaker 2: had said, don't engage with this thing on the on

1:36:29 Speaker 2: the range. There's something out there.

1:36:31 Speaker 1: Right obviously there no matter what you guys, not you personally,

1:36:37 Speaker 1: but the whoever at the Nelli's test site, they had

1:36:43 Speaker 1: knowledge of his being there and that there was some

1:36:48 Speaker 1: sort of craft, not just because they had seen the

1:36:50 Speaker 1: UFO on the on the video, but maybe that you're right,

1:36:55 Speaker 1: he was part of the program to some degree.

1:36:58 Speaker 6: Yes, that's that's pretty much what I would have gathered

1:37:02 Speaker 6: as well. And besides that he had been there the

1:37:04 Speaker 6: entire weekend, probably looking for help. The only other reason

1:37:08 Speaker 6: for him to wear uniform is maybe when maybe the

1:37:10 Speaker 6: lady who stopped me going out the door, maybe she

1:37:13 Speaker 6: ran into him and felt sorry for him because it

1:37:15 Speaker 6: was cold, and maybe she she thought that it was

1:37:18 Speaker 6: better for him to wear a uniform so he wouldn't

1:37:20 Speaker 6: look so shocking. I don't know, but that sounds less

1:37:23 Speaker 6: believable to me than other theories that I've had thrown

1:37:26 Speaker 6: at me. But she obviously felt upset that she had

1:37:31 Speaker 6: met this individual, and I don't think she would have

1:37:34 Speaker 6: reached out to help. She may have actually turned and

1:37:37 Speaker 6: ran right and things like this. So he got the

1:37:40 Speaker 6: uniform from somewhere I don't know where.

1:37:42 Speaker 1: And you said that the uniform was Now, when people

1:37:45 Speaker 1: go up to these you know, trainings and stuff, you're

1:37:48 Speaker 1: not wearing your your best right, you're not wearing.

1:37:53 Speaker 6: Your best you know, talking about one of the most

1:37:57 Speaker 6: dirty work you're going to get into. Because everything, dirt, everything,

1:38:02 Speaker 6: you know, just messes up your boots, It messes up

1:38:05 Speaker 6: your uniforms. So you don't take your brand new uniform

1:38:08 Speaker 6: that you just bought up range with you. You take

1:38:11 Speaker 6: your stuff that you've had around and it's all washed

1:38:14 Speaker 6: out from being washed so many times in the laundry.

1:38:17 Speaker 6: That's what you're wearing up range. And this guy who

1:38:19 Speaker 6: was just totally pristine, brand new looking boots, looking great,

1:38:23 Speaker 6: you know, just pristine all the way through. I'm just like,

1:38:26 Speaker 6: this is impossible. This guy's really out of place.

1:38:30 Speaker 1: Okay, And so when he gets in the craft, So

1:38:33 Speaker 1: now the conversation's over, right, or the discussions over, you

1:38:40 Speaker 1: point him to you had been attending classes, you said, Yeah.

1:38:46 Speaker 6: The only other place that occurred to me was that

1:38:47 Speaker 6: I had a professor at the time while I was

1:38:49 Speaker 6: taking college back at Las Vegas. It's the Community College

1:38:53 Speaker 6: of Las Vegas is where I was going, and I

1:38:55 Speaker 6: had a geophysicist professor, and I thought perhaps maybe he

1:38:59 Speaker 6: knew somebody was into metals and metallurgy. So I just

1:39:03 Speaker 6: happened to mention that to the this person or this being,

1:39:07 Speaker 6: and maybe that's what prompted him to go back to

1:39:10 Speaker 6: his craft. Maybe he was going to make pay a

1:39:12 Speaker 6: visit to some folks. I don't know, right, it's totally

1:39:16 Speaker 6: up to him at that point. All I know is

1:39:17 Speaker 6: he walked off the roadway and off he went, whether he,

1:39:20 Speaker 6: you know, wanted to go talk to somebody else or not.

1:39:23 Speaker 2: So when he gets in the craft, I know that

1:39:28 Speaker 2: we're going to get to your the convoy and how

1:39:31 Speaker 2: they were. But so do you get him. Do you

1:39:34 Speaker 2: see him get in the craft and then take off.

1:39:38 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm kind of watching him the whole time, because

1:39:40 Speaker 6: you know, this is the weirdest thing that's happened to me.

1:39:43 Speaker 6: That's when I could see that there were clearly two

1:39:45 Speaker 6: seats in the cockpit area. That's when I saw the

1:39:48 Speaker 6: front kind of went, you know, pop up like a

1:39:51 Speaker 6: canopy would would on a fighter aircraft kind of a thing.

1:39:56 Speaker 6: So what you're looking at here, the black shaped portion

1:40:01 Speaker 6: of this is just the the That's where you would

1:40:04 Speaker 6: think if it was a helicopter, that's the tail. And

1:40:08 Speaker 6: if you look at the complete opposite side, that's where

1:40:12 Speaker 6: the cockpit is in that big rounded front area.

1:40:15 Speaker 1: Okay, and when when he gets in it, how does

1:40:21 Speaker 1: it take off? Does it take off with noise?

1:40:24 Speaker 6: Is it there's a little bit of noise. Yes, it

1:40:28 Speaker 6: sounds a bit like it is broken. It sounds like

1:40:30 Speaker 6: something is spinning, but it's hitting up against the something metallic.

1:40:35 Speaker 6: I guess the closest noise I've heard is if you

1:40:40 Speaker 6: can imagine ball bearings that are bad and they're rotating inside,

1:40:48 Speaker 6: say your car engine, and they make that squealing sound.

1:40:53 Speaker 6: That's kind of what it sounded like. But it was

1:40:55 Speaker 6: very fast. It wasn't like it, you know, squeak squeak.

1:40:57 Speaker 6: This is like speaking very quick, and it went vertically

1:41:03 Speaker 6: up and then when it went over the roadway, it

1:41:07 Speaker 6: just went up in chunks like you know, like this.

1:41:09 Speaker 6: It was like so it was having trouble getting altitude,

1:41:13 Speaker 6: is what it looked like to me. So whatever damage

1:41:17 Speaker 6: was done to that craft, I think it damaged the

1:41:20 Speaker 6: vertical lift of that craft rather than the horizontal because

1:41:26 Speaker 6: it didn't seem to have any problem once it got

1:41:28 Speaker 6: to the altitude it wanted. It just shot straight at.

1:41:31 Speaker 2: That point and just was it an instantaneous.

1:41:36 Speaker 6: Yeah, there was no pause whatsoever when it went It

1:41:40 Speaker 6: took up and went off like this and started moving forward.

1:41:43 Speaker 6: There was there was no transition like a helicopter would

1:41:46 Speaker 6: Like a helicopter would normally dip a little bit and

1:41:49 Speaker 6: push forward from the air thrust that was underneath. This

1:41:52 Speaker 6: didn't tip or anything. It just went up and then

1:41:54 Speaker 6: started going, you know, so very unusual flight characteristic.

1:41:59 Speaker 2: In that regard, and no discernible means of propulsion, like you.

1:42:02 Speaker 6: Said, no exhaust, no nothing.

1:42:06 Speaker 1: This is this is when now you're kind of you

1:42:11 Speaker 1: come out of it. Let's let's just say, you know,

1:42:14 Speaker 1: you're the exchange is over and now you start. Now

1:42:19 Speaker 1: you notice that the rest of the people in your

1:42:23 Speaker 1: in your convoy, sorry, thank you, they seem to be

1:42:29 Speaker 1: coming out of a daze.

1:42:32 Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, they definitely were glassy eyed until I was

1:42:38 Speaker 6: mostly in the in the car, and then they were

1:42:41 Speaker 6: kind of coming to themselves, and maybe they they would

1:42:45 Speaker 6: have in their estimation, maybe some of them saw it

1:42:48 Speaker 6: as missing time or that they just hadn't seen the

1:42:52 Speaker 6: same things that I had seen. I have no idea.

1:42:54 Speaker 6: All I know is I've tried to reach out to

1:42:56 Speaker 6: those people that were in the car with me. I

1:42:58 Speaker 6: think that anybody standing are in a car behind me,

1:43:01 Speaker 6: that lead vehicle would have difficulties seeing what I saw

1:43:05 Speaker 6: because I'm a big guy and I was standing directly

1:43:08 Speaker 6: in their line of sight. Okay, so maybe they could

1:43:11 Speaker 6: have seen his hat, maybe they could have seen part

1:43:14 Speaker 6: of his head, but at a distance, they probably wouldn't

1:43:16 Speaker 6: be able to tell if it was a human or not.

1:43:19 Speaker 6: But the people in my vehicle, if they were aware,

1:43:21 Speaker 6: I thought they would at least know. I've tried to

1:43:24 Speaker 6: look them all up. The ranking guy in the driver's

1:43:27 Speaker 6: seat we did hook up on LinkedIn for a little bit.

1:43:31 Speaker 6: I mentioned the UFO and he ghosted me. The guy

1:43:34 Speaker 6: in the front right seat or in the passenger seat.

1:43:38 Speaker 6: They tried to find him, but nobody seems to be

1:43:40 Speaker 6: able to track him down. Nobody knows where he's at,

1:43:44 Speaker 6: so I don't know if he's dead homeless. I have

1:43:46 Speaker 6: no idea. Nobody can seem to find him. The young

1:43:50 Speaker 6: lady that was to my right, I think they found her,

1:43:53 Speaker 6: but she's too scared to talk. So there's several of them,

1:43:57 Speaker 6: plus I've got another person, pretty well known UAP talking head.

1:44:04 Speaker 6: At this point, he also confirmed with me and James Fox.

1:44:09 Speaker 6: He said, I know two of the people that were

1:44:12 Speaker 6: there the week before that corroborate your story. Jason, and

1:44:16 Speaker 6: I was like, thank god, you know, are they going

1:44:18 Speaker 6: to talk? Are they going to support me? And he's like, no,

1:44:21 Speaker 6: they're too scared. So everybody's too damn scared, and it's

1:44:25 Speaker 6: sickening to me. But hopefully now that they've seen me

1:44:29 Speaker 6: out here in the public eye, you can see if

1:44:32 Speaker 6: you know how to talk about this properly, you can

1:44:34 Speaker 6: get by. You can do this as long as you're

1:44:37 Speaker 6: not giving away the nation's secrets about how the technology

1:44:40 Speaker 6: is being used to advance our weaponry. You're going to

1:44:45 Speaker 6: be fine because the thought of the fact that we're

1:44:48 Speaker 6: alone or not alone, well, that's the basic right of everybody.

1:44:51 Speaker 6: So you can talk about the existence of the NHI

1:44:54 Speaker 6: inside the program just as readily as outside the program.

1:44:57 Speaker 6: That's never was classified. And believe me, I know about

1:45:00 Speaker 6: the classification levels of things, because not only did I

1:45:04 Speaker 6: do the telecommunications monitoring for the entire program, I had

1:45:08 Speaker 6: to put on that report the exact right classification markings.

1:45:12 Speaker 6: So I literally had to talk to the scientists, the

1:45:15 Speaker 6: program managers and ask them, is this the correct classification level.

1:45:21 Speaker 6: So that's another thing that I find about some of

1:45:24 Speaker 6: the talking heads in the UAP community is that some

1:45:28 Speaker 6: of them don't know what they can and cannot talk

1:45:30 Speaker 6: about because they were never at that level where I was,

1:45:33 Speaker 6: where they could see everything and know why this was secret,

1:45:38 Speaker 6: why this was top secret, why this was secret secret

1:45:42 Speaker 6: compartment to the compartmental level information and onward and upward

1:45:48 Speaker 6: or even unclassified. So you had to know all of

1:45:51 Speaker 6: that stuff just to you know, file these reports. You

1:45:54 Speaker 6: had to prove to the leadership this was the right classification,

1:45:59 Speaker 6: otherwise you can to get in trouble. So that's another

1:46:02 Speaker 6: thing is that I've noticed a lot about the talking

1:46:05 Speaker 6: heads in the UAP community. You can definitely tell when

1:46:08 Speaker 6: people are doing the brush off about answering anything in

1:46:11 Speaker 6: public because they don't know whether it's actually a special

1:46:15 Speaker 6: access program required or not information. And that's where another

1:46:20 Speaker 6: thing that where actually did my adopter or my pre publication.

1:46:24 Speaker 6: That's the other thing that not everybody has done as

1:46:27 Speaker 6: a whistleblower. But I actually told DoD this is what

1:46:32 Speaker 6: I want to talk about publicly. I'm an Intel guy.

1:46:35 Speaker 6: I also claim that I've been in the program. This

1:46:37 Speaker 6: is what I want to talk about listed out, and

1:46:39 Speaker 6: they approved everything, literally everything that I wanted to talk about.

1:46:44 Speaker 6: So I was like, okay, we're good. So all those

1:46:49 Speaker 6: things can be done. So if you want to come forward,

1:46:51 Speaker 6: you want to talk about this stuff, I can help

1:46:54 Speaker 6: you do it discreetly. I can help you do it publicly.

1:46:57 Speaker 6: The Soul Foundation can do that as well. David Gros

1:47:00 Speaker 6: can do that as well. Just depends on who you

1:47:01 Speaker 6: have contact with. But if that's what you want to do,

1:47:04 Speaker 6: I'm easy to find on X and it's my first name,

1:47:09 Speaker 6: middle initial, last name, all one word. That's who I

1:47:12 Speaker 6: am on X. You know, direct message me and I'll

1:47:16 Speaker 6: help you with whatever you want. And I've already helped

1:47:19 Speaker 6: three or four other uh individuals come forward, and I'm

1:47:23 Speaker 6: happy to have been doing that. So I'm hoping more

1:47:27 Speaker 6: people come forward.

1:47:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's one of the things.

1:47:31 Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, because skeptics and others

1:47:38 Speaker 1: are all there, they're what they say and what their

1:47:43 Speaker 1: notion or what their starting point is. Why why would

1:47:48 Speaker 1: the d o D allow these people to come out

1:47:53 Speaker 1: and talk about this kind of stuff? And then there's

1:47:56 Speaker 1: others that think that the d o D is currently,

1:48:02 Speaker 1: you know, in in some sort of controlled disclosure dissemination campaign.

1:48:12 Speaker 2: What do you think is happening? Why do you think that.

1:48:15 Speaker 1: You're allowed to talk about this stuff other than obviously

1:48:19 Speaker 1: you know, you can't classify nature like the nature of reality.

1:48:24 Speaker 6: Well, I would say that in my understanding of the program,

1:48:29 Speaker 6: it was incepted officially in the nineteen fifties. Okay, before that,

1:48:36 Speaker 6: things occurred, and it was more loose, loosely organized because

1:48:41 Speaker 6: it was a new program that was about ready to

1:48:43 Speaker 6: come out. But back then, you're talking right after World

1:48:47 Speaker 6: War Two. This is McCarthy era, where you know, people

1:48:50 Speaker 6: were pointing fingers at their neighbors saying you're a COMI right,

1:48:54 Speaker 6: you deserve to be in jail kind of a thing.

1:48:56 Speaker 6: And I can imagine that what happened in Broswell was

1:49:00 Speaker 6: probably that, Yeah, there's probably some truth to the fact

1:49:03 Speaker 6: that when people say that they thought that this was

1:49:06 Speaker 6: some kind of a Russian hoax or way for them

1:49:10 Speaker 6: to mess with us, you know, and maybe their first

1:49:15 Speaker 6: reaction was to be one of, oh, this is a threat,

1:49:19 Speaker 6: and that kind of started off things in that threat

1:49:24 Speaker 6: scenario kind of a way of thinking that military people

1:49:27 Speaker 6: normally find themselves in because we're there to protect, you know,

1:49:34 Speaker 6: So I think that was the initial thought. And because

1:49:37 Speaker 6: the program is pretty closed off, you know, most people,

1:49:40 Speaker 6: unlike myself, get to do it for their whole lives.

1:49:44 Speaker 6: So like the torch is from the person that was

1:49:48 Speaker 6: in the program initially, who was the leader, and the

1:49:51 Speaker 6: commander would have passed the torch to the next guy

1:49:55 Speaker 6: at you know, his retirement, and the next guy is

1:49:58 Speaker 6: just a carbon copy of him that he's been grooming

1:50:00 Speaker 6: for years. And pretty much it's like a microcosm inside

1:50:05 Speaker 6: because it's very very isolated program to begin with, It's

1:50:10 Speaker 6: got its own culture, and even when I was in

1:50:14 Speaker 6: some of the facilities, there is still very much construction

1:50:17 Speaker 6: from World War Two, so it wasn't much changed. And

1:50:21 Speaker 6: now we're entering this this era of disclosure, and I

1:50:25 Speaker 6: think that the new blood in the program is starting

1:50:29 Speaker 6: to consider, we'll shoot. Maybe it's better if we just

1:50:33 Speaker 6: admit that we're not alone at least, that we'll get

1:50:36 Speaker 6: that monkey off our back and then we won't have

1:50:39 Speaker 6: to deal with the fact that, you know, we're hiding

1:50:41 Speaker 6: stuff from the public, and that the only thing we're

1:50:43 Speaker 6: hiding is our national security weaponry systems and our technologies,

1:50:47 Speaker 6: and maybe they feel that that's a better way to

1:50:50 Speaker 6: survive in today's day and age than it was before.

1:50:54 Speaker 6: So the only thing that might conflict with that is

1:50:56 Speaker 6: maybe the nh I don't want everybody to know that

1:51:00 Speaker 6: in public. So that's the thought process that I have

1:51:02 Speaker 6: no way to determine. I'm not an alien by any means,

1:51:06 Speaker 6: So how can I, you know, make a judgment call

1:51:09 Speaker 6: for them. That's purely their own business, is whether they

1:51:13 Speaker 6: want to be public with somebody or not. They apparently

1:51:15 Speaker 6: seem to be okay with these kind of one off

1:51:18 Speaker 6: abductions where people are being talked to where people are

1:51:23 Speaker 6: being told that we haven't reached our potential as a

1:51:26 Speaker 6: human race. They seem to be okay with like these

1:51:29 Speaker 6: small messages of encouragement and kind of motive trying to

1:51:33 Speaker 6: motivate us to do things for ourselves and get out

1:51:36 Speaker 6: of this rut that we kind of get into when

1:51:39 Speaker 6: it comes to you know, like like what we're going

1:51:41 Speaker 6: through right now here in America with all the corruption

1:51:43 Speaker 6: in our government and in society and people that do

1:51:46 Speaker 6: bad things to children. You know, all this trafficking to drugs,

1:51:51 Speaker 6: all of that is probably related to it in one

1:51:53 Speaker 6: way or another. So we know it's humans, you know that. Yeah,

1:51:57 Speaker 6: if that's the nhi's mindset, I'm pretty sure a lot

1:52:00 Speaker 6: of the American a lot of humans will say, yeah,

1:52:02 Speaker 6: we're pretty screwed up, right, and we got some work

1:52:05 Speaker 6: to do here, folks. If we really want this to

1:52:08 Speaker 6: be you know, a full circle revelation of disclosure that

1:52:12 Speaker 6: the NHI are even comfortable with. You know, yeah, we can,

1:52:17 Speaker 6: we can declassify everything in the program, and still the

1:52:20 Speaker 6: nh I would resist us in a way. Is maybe

1:52:23 Speaker 6: a scenario that's.

1:52:24 Speaker 1: Realistic, absolutely absolutely, and that you know that's a very

1:52:32 Speaker 1: that's a very good lens to kind of view it through.

1:52:37 Speaker 1: Is you know, we can do all we can do,

1:52:43 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, it's also it's

1:52:45 Speaker 1: not if there is you know, truly, if we're being

1:52:49 Speaker 1: visited on the regular we're being observed. You know, it's

1:52:52 Speaker 1: not just our decision at that point, it's the decisions.

1:52:57 Speaker 1: It has to be mutual.

1:52:59 Speaker 2: So you know, maybe they don't think.

1:53:02 Speaker 1: That society as a whole is ready for this, and

1:53:07 Speaker 1: that's why they're not landing on the White House lawn.

1:53:11 Speaker 2: That's why they're not landing, you know, in front of

1:53:13 Speaker 2: the you know, in Moscow.

1:53:16 Speaker 6: And that makes sense, yes, honestly, and to give some

1:53:20 Speaker 6: analytical rigor to that. The reason I say that, and

1:53:24 Speaker 6: the reason I'm speaking that way today is because if

1:53:28 Speaker 6: you think about it, it's probably quite more comfortable for

1:53:33 Speaker 6: them to deal with the military who concede land to

1:53:37 Speaker 6: them to create a place for them to live untethered, unbothered,

1:53:42 Speaker 6: and they don't even have to deal with our corrupt government.

1:53:44 Speaker 6: You know, they can actually just deal with military leaders

1:53:47 Speaker 6: who have to deal with the corrupt government for them,

1:53:50 Speaker 6: which seems to be something that they kind of do

1:53:51 Speaker 6: is they use a lot of proxies to maybe do that,

1:53:56 Speaker 6: and that seems to maybe be the way that they

1:53:57 Speaker 6: want to deal with it at this point, because we're

1:54:02 Speaker 6: not ready for them to come in and introduce themselves

1:54:05 Speaker 6: and share their culture and their technologies, because they're unsure

1:54:09 Speaker 6: of us as to whether we are a threat.

1:54:11 Speaker 1: Even right, I mean, look at us, Look at how

1:54:14 Speaker 1: we you know, just at our own human you know,

1:54:20 Speaker 1: bucket we we we tend to.

1:54:24 Speaker 2: Subjugate and.

1:54:28 Speaker 1: Label to everything, you know, whether it's nationality, uh, skin color,

1:54:34 Speaker 1: create you know, religion.

1:54:36 Speaker 2: We we love to to to.

1:54:39 Speaker 1: You know, uh, make each other, put each other in

1:54:44 Speaker 1: the boxes and groupings. And you know, if we can't

1:54:49 Speaker 1: get along, if there's racism, if there's nationalism, you know,

1:54:54 Speaker 1: if if these things are still happening, how could we

1:54:57 Speaker 1: even fathom another intelligence, you know, intelligence and other intelligence,

1:55:07 Speaker 1: you know, add that to the factor, and you know

1:55:10 Speaker 1: what goes wrong there?

1:55:11 Speaker 2: Then we have speciesism and you know other issues that

1:55:15 Speaker 2: wouldn't be there.

1:55:17 Speaker 6: Yes, and that's very true. So I think for all

1:55:20 Speaker 6: those reasons, that's the way I feel, and it's also

1:55:24 Speaker 6: feeds my analytical you know sort of mind, and I

1:55:29 Speaker 6: think it also strikes a chord with everybody else out

1:55:31 Speaker 6: there that's listening to the narrative of all these people

1:55:35 Speaker 6: who've had these encounters. I wish everybody could have had

1:55:38 Speaker 6: real life encounter like I could, and then there'd be

1:55:40 Speaker 6: no doubt. And that seems to be our biggest quandary

1:55:44 Speaker 6: right now. It's just, you know, I don't even think

1:55:46 Speaker 6: it's a requirement that everybody believes at this point. I

1:55:49 Speaker 6: think it's important though, that the people that do know

1:55:53 Speaker 6: for sure that there's a human aspect to this, that

1:55:56 Speaker 6: they are trying to help our society get to a

1:55:58 Speaker 6: better place. And I think that's really what not only

1:56:03 Speaker 6: we need, but it's also what is needed if we

1:56:06 Speaker 6: were to adjoin with all the other civilizations that are

1:56:09 Speaker 6: out there, you know, because they need to feel good

1:56:13 Speaker 6: about our way of handling things to a point to

1:56:16 Speaker 6: where they would want to be more formal about the

1:56:20 Speaker 6: interactions that are taking place here on Earth. But right now,

1:56:23 Speaker 6: we seem to be in more of experimentally spiritual and

1:56:27 Speaker 6: emotional role roller coaster mode where we end up in

1:56:32 Speaker 6: all kinds of different cat herding fur balls, and it

1:56:37 Speaker 6: probably is very frustrating not only for us, but for

1:56:40 Speaker 6: them to have to observe it.

1:56:43 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

1:56:45 Speaker 1: And so I want to ask what you know you've now,

1:56:51 Speaker 1: So you've gone from living in the classified world and

1:56:57 Speaker 1: having your story and all these experience is you know,

1:57:00 Speaker 1: pretty under wraps, and you know now you've come out

1:57:06 Speaker 1: and you know done Rogan the biggest podcast on the planet.

1:57:10 Speaker 1: You're in the James Fox film. You know, a very

1:57:15 Speaker 1: well known director in this in this topic. What is

1:57:19 Speaker 1: it like for you going from relative you know, in

1:57:25 Speaker 1: the in the shadows to now your your story is

1:57:29 Speaker 1: in front of millions, millions and millions of people.

1:57:33 Speaker 6: Well, I kind of take it as being part of

1:57:35 Speaker 6: the overall thing that I've been involved with. When I

1:57:38 Speaker 6: decided to go testify to Congress. When I had to

1:57:42 Speaker 6: make that decision back in twenty twenty two to go

1:57:44 Speaker 6: to Congress because they called me and asked me if

1:57:46 Speaker 6: I would come in and testify, I literally had to decide.

1:57:51 Speaker 6: I was like, this is a big decision. It's going

1:57:52 Speaker 6: to last the rest of my life. Now. At that point,

1:57:56 Speaker 6: I had the luxury of thinking I would not go public,

1:58:00 Speaker 6: so I could do this kind of discreetly anonymously, which

1:58:03 Speaker 6: I did for the most part that first year But

1:58:07 Speaker 6: then as I grew in relationship with all the other

1:58:10 Speaker 6: figureheads in the UAP community, and for a large part

1:58:13 Speaker 6: to David Grush and his kind of mentoring me through that,

1:58:17 Speaker 6: because he'd been through a lot of the wickets with

1:58:18 Speaker 6: other witnesses as well as himself, and those all weighed

1:58:23 Speaker 6: heavily on me. So at that early stage in that

1:58:26 Speaker 6: first year, I was on mission with the rest of them.

1:58:29 Speaker 6: I was like, somebody has to break the ice on this,

1:58:34 Speaker 6: somebody has to, you know, come forward and speak, and

1:58:38 Speaker 6: I know that I can help, is what I felt like,

1:58:42 Speaker 6: And so I went on mission is what I call

1:58:43 Speaker 6: it that day. It's the same way I felt that,

1:58:46 Speaker 6: you know, when I joined the Air Force, I could

1:58:47 Speaker 6: literally give, you know, give my life for my country

1:58:50 Speaker 6: if need be. I literally was giving up my life

1:58:53 Speaker 6: to do this. Now going public was another matter. When

1:58:59 Speaker 6: I met James, it was kind of accidental, as he's

1:59:01 Speaker 6: described a couple of times where they thought they were

1:59:05 Speaker 6: talking to Jay Stratton ran yeah, yeah, but you know,

1:59:09 Speaker 6: Chris Mellen was responding back to me, and I'm like, no,

1:59:12 Speaker 6: I'm Jay Sands, I'm not Jay Stratton, And he's like, oh,

1:59:15 Speaker 6: oh sorry. You know, but James Fox was part of that.

1:59:18 Speaker 6: And then James was like, well, who are you then,

1:59:20 Speaker 6: and so I had to tell him and then he

1:59:22 Speaker 6: was like, oh, well why don't you you know, have

1:59:24 Speaker 6: you thought about, you know, a deathbed confession kind of

1:59:27 Speaker 6: video thing. I can do that for you. So I

1:59:29 Speaker 6: thought at the time, yeah, that'd be kind of good

1:59:31 Speaker 6: if something happens to me, at least you know, I've

1:59:32 Speaker 6: got the recording. So I did that, and I gave

1:59:36 Speaker 6: that to some trusted individuals that have it and they're

1:59:39 Speaker 6: the ones that are going to bring it forward if

1:59:41 Speaker 6: need be. But eventually that footage ended up becoming part

1:59:45 Speaker 6: of the film that James Fox put together later on

1:59:48 Speaker 6: because accidentally, in twenty twenty three, the picture the picture

1:59:55 Speaker 6: of me of my name, well there shows the back

1:59:58 Speaker 6: of my head, but in front of me the little

2:00:00 Speaker 6: clapper board that the directors use, and it had my

2:00:03 Speaker 6: name on it. And of course somebody picked up on

2:00:05 Speaker 6: that very quickly. Who's the Jason Sands as he's the whistleblower. Yeah,

2:00:09 Speaker 6: it's exactly that. Yeah, So that made me think long

2:00:13 Speaker 6: and hard about going public. I had already seen David

2:00:17 Speaker 6: Grush and I were talking about going public and he

2:00:20 Speaker 6: was much more prepared, as I said before, because he'd

2:00:23 Speaker 6: already been through all of his legal wickets. I still

2:00:25 Speaker 6: had to do the ic IG complaint, and I had

2:00:28 Speaker 6: to do my pre publication, which did take another year

2:00:32 Speaker 6: to get through, and then I was able finally to

2:00:35 Speaker 6: come forward. So he went forward publicly and gave his testimony.

2:00:42 Speaker 6: He did a great job with Fraver and Graves. I

2:00:45 Speaker 6: know Graves as well. I don't know fraveror but I

2:00:48 Speaker 6: was very proud of all three of them, and likewise,

2:00:52 Speaker 6: lou Willie Zando very proud of what he's done for

2:00:54 Speaker 6: the community. I know he's taking his barbed spears and

2:00:57 Speaker 6: flaming swords for other people, and he's got his reasons

2:01:03 Speaker 6: for being the way he is too, so just you know,

2:01:05 Speaker 6: I give him a break because I know how tough

2:01:07 Speaker 6: it is. And anyway, so all those great people were

2:01:12 Speaker 6: part of, you know, weighing heavy on me with you know,

2:01:15 Speaker 6: you know, I'm not going to tell you what to do, Jay,

2:01:17 Speaker 6: but if you do go public is really what they

2:01:19 Speaker 6: were telling me. It's gonna suck. There's gonna be a

2:01:21 Speaker 6: big suck on this, And I'm like, yeah, I kind

2:01:24 Speaker 6: of get that, you know. So I finally got my

2:01:27 Speaker 6: pre publication. The clapper board had my name on it.

2:01:31 Speaker 6: I'd actually had to go talk to my employer at

2:01:33 Speaker 6: the time and tell him I may have to go

2:01:34 Speaker 6: public because people are asking and I'm getting, you know,

2:01:38 Speaker 6: a lot of folks bugging me. I've got people trying

2:01:41 Speaker 6: to track me down. They understood, and for a while

2:01:45 Speaker 6: there they were like, very good with that. And anyway,

2:01:50 Speaker 6: this came to that I decided to go public mainly

2:01:53 Speaker 6: because some of the Intel community people that I used

2:01:56 Speaker 6: to do the UAP Task Force form with, they were saying, hey, Jay,

2:02:01 Speaker 6: they've got you in a space or they're talking about

2:02:04 Speaker 6: you in a space and it's not you know, I

2:02:06 Speaker 6: don't think you'd like it. But and I was like, oh,

2:02:09 Speaker 6: what are they saying? So I went in there anonymously

2:02:11 Speaker 6: to listen in and then I was like, oh crap,

2:02:14 Speaker 6: they're getting a lot of stuff wrong about who I am.

2:02:16 Speaker 6: What's going on with my motivation. We're even saying stuff

2:02:19 Speaker 6: about David Greshen. Ain't right. I just was like, Okay,

2:02:24 Speaker 6: I'll pop in for five ten minutes, pop right back out.

2:02:27 Speaker 6: Then six hours later.

2:02:29 Speaker 1: Like yeah, you know, that's that's it the community. They're

2:02:35 Speaker 1: like a dog when you know, chasing a bone, right,

2:02:40 Speaker 1: so once they sink their teeth in, they don't let up.

2:02:44 Speaker 1: They won't let up. So when that picture that was that,

2:02:48 Speaker 1: when that domino fell, Yeah, it was people sprinting, you know,

2:02:53 Speaker 1: metaphorically sprinting for the information and they you know, and

2:02:59 Speaker 1: that's so I I understand why you because a lot

2:03:03 Speaker 1: of people like he came out on a Twitter spaces

2:03:07 Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, I think what happened is you

2:03:11 Speaker 1: started listening, like you said, you heard some stuff that

2:03:15 Speaker 1: was like obviously wrong, and it's easy to be like,

2:03:20 Speaker 1: you know what, fuck fuck this, I'm gonna I'm going

2:03:24 Speaker 1: to run the ship here, right, And that's what you did.

2:03:28 Speaker 1: And it was it was something you didn't plan on doing.

2:03:31 Speaker 6: No, it wasn't. I didn't plan on it. It was

2:03:33 Speaker 6: just a spur of the moment, moment of emotion just

2:03:40 Speaker 6: overwhelming me because I was already stressed out with my

2:03:43 Speaker 6: employer because I didn't know what was going to happen,

2:03:46 Speaker 6: you know, and here here it was. You know, even

2:03:48 Speaker 6: the story was getting all twisted around, and even if

2:03:51 Speaker 6: I went public, there were someone truths already being spoken

2:03:54 Speaker 6: and I'm like, geez, there's no way out for me.

2:03:56 Speaker 6: And I just felt like really compelled to have to

2:03:58 Speaker 6: say something right.

2:04:00 Speaker 2: And and and and you know what, I don't again,

2:04:03 Speaker 2: I don't fault you for that. I don't.

2:04:05 Speaker 1: I don't think any less of you than I do

2:04:08 Speaker 1: David Grush or any of the people that you mentioned.

2:04:13 Speaker 1: You know, you just you took a different avenue again,

2:04:17 Speaker 1: and I like what you said in Rogan. It's like, well,

2:04:20 Speaker 1: I kind of took it to the people, like, you know,

2:04:22 Speaker 1: we get the best job done when we are united,

2:04:28 Speaker 1: and you're so spot on saying that.

2:04:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I commend that that and yeah.

2:04:35 Speaker 6: Very quickly after that first interview, in that six hour space,

2:04:40 Speaker 6: even while I was speaking, I was getting all kinds

2:04:42 Speaker 6: of direct messages or dms that were coming in that

2:04:45 Speaker 6: were so supportive, and I'm like, it really dawned on

2:04:50 Speaker 6: me that I had compassion for that. I was like,

2:04:53 Speaker 6: the people honestly just want answers, and here I am

2:04:58 Speaker 6: offering them one of the rare opportunities to talk to

2:05:01 Speaker 6: somebody inside the program. And it just hit me that

2:05:05 Speaker 6: not only am I on mission here, but I realized

2:05:07 Speaker 6: who I was doing it for. You know, and I

2:05:10 Speaker 6: realized that, yeah, it was unorthodox. According to all the

2:05:14 Speaker 6: other talking heads in the UAP community, They're like, you

2:05:18 Speaker 6: do this interview, then you do this interview, and you

2:05:20 Speaker 6: do it at this level and this level when you

2:05:22 Speaker 6: say this, oh, and don't talk about that. I don't

2:05:24 Speaker 6: talk about that. And that was kind of what was

2:05:26 Speaker 6: going on, and I'm just thinking, oh, I guess this

2:05:28 Speaker 6: is the way it goes. But then when I realized

2:05:30 Speaker 6: that the people needed the information, it kind of went

2:05:33 Speaker 6: a totally different direction. And at first there were you know,

2:05:37 Speaker 6: there was a bit of you know, oh, shoot, Jason

2:05:40 Speaker 6: just did something unexpected. You know, I knew, nobody knew

2:05:43 Speaker 6: what was going to happen. I mean, some people had

2:05:46 Speaker 6: their oh, well, who on earth would come to a

2:05:48 Speaker 6: you know, X space and do this? And now they're

2:05:51 Speaker 6: starting to see how it made sense because I find that,

2:05:54 Speaker 6: you know, I just kind of do things out of

2:05:56 Speaker 6: my heart, and even though it doesn't feel right at

2:05:59 Speaker 6: the time, it usually ends up okay. And that's exactly

2:06:03 Speaker 6: what I feel happened in this instance, is that I

2:06:06 Speaker 6: did it for the right reasons. I didn't do it

2:06:08 Speaker 6: for fame or fortune. I didn't do it because I

2:06:11 Speaker 6: wanted to be popular. I didn't want to do it

2:06:13 Speaker 6: even to write a book. Writing writing a book is

2:06:15 Speaker 6: just me telling you guys the stuff in greater details.

2:06:18 Speaker 6: So it's right there and you can go back to

2:06:20 Speaker 6: it without talking to me time and time again. And

2:06:23 Speaker 6: that's who I am, and that's honestly who I think

2:06:25 Speaker 6: that people really identified with. So in the long run

2:06:29 Speaker 6: it actually turned into a blessing to me because I

2:06:32 Speaker 6: have all these supporters now and I actually went to

2:06:36 Speaker 6: that them first, to get to know them first, is

2:06:39 Speaker 6: really what happened. Is unlike all the other talking heads,

2:06:43 Speaker 6: I'm right there with the people from the start, rather

2:06:46 Speaker 6: than that coming afterwards and then being pulled and gravitated

2:06:50 Speaker 6: towards all the fame and fortune kind of crap.

2:06:52 Speaker 4: Right.

2:06:53 Speaker 1: It's the speaking engagements the movie, right, you know at James,

2:06:58 Speaker 1: those kind of things you know that would like that.

2:07:04 Speaker 1: I'm not saying David Grush did this, but you know

2:07:07 Speaker 1: he did it the quote unquote normal way.

2:07:10 Speaker 4: Right.

2:07:11 Speaker 2: So uh.

2:07:12 Speaker 1: An article with the debrief or you know, written by

2:07:15 Speaker 1: Leslie Keene, well known you know, broke the New York

2:07:19 Speaker 1: Times story Cohen concurrent was the Ross Colthart News Nation

2:07:24 Speaker 1: interview and it all comes out in you know, a

2:07:27 Speaker 1: couple of days and then you know, all of a sudden,

2:07:32 Speaker 1: that's when the podcast come up. That's when everything, you know,

2:07:35 Speaker 1: people want to start digging in more. You you flipped

2:07:40 Speaker 1: that all on its head.

2:07:42 Speaker 6: So yeah, and that was mainly what happened was that,

2:07:46 Speaker 6: you know, everybody was thinking it was going to go

2:07:48 Speaker 6: down this way, you know, and me being a nube,

2:07:52 Speaker 6: I had no idea what I was really doing other

2:07:54 Speaker 6: than trying to keep true to my own heart and

2:07:56 Speaker 6: what I thought was the right thing to do. So yeah,

2:08:00 Speaker 6: it does tend to set up people that are established

2:08:03 Speaker 6: inside of what the topic of UFOs has been about.

2:08:07 Speaker 6: So yeah, it did upset the balance there for a while.

2:08:09 Speaker 6: But I think things have coming around, have come around

2:08:11 Speaker 6: differently on the back end of it, and that disclosure

2:08:17 Speaker 6: is a lot closer, I think, not only from my work,

2:08:20 Speaker 6: but also the people that are in the Planned Disclosure

2:08:23 Speaker 6: Group as well, which I'm still part of. But you know,

2:08:26 Speaker 6: they just you know, know that I'm on a different

2:08:29 Speaker 6: track and that I'm not I'm not controllable, I guess.

2:08:33 Speaker 2: Yeah.

2:08:33 Speaker 6: Yeah, But anyway, so I've kind of done that. But

2:08:39 Speaker 6: you're right, I kind of shook up the establishment.

2:08:42 Speaker 2: And I loved it.

2:08:43 Speaker 1: I love every fucking minute of it because I was

2:08:46 Speaker 1: like this guy, you know, he took a real chance here,

2:08:49 Speaker 1: and it takes gravitas and balls to to not to

2:08:55 Speaker 1: go right to UFO Twitter and just.

2:08:58 Speaker 2: Put them you know, six hour, four hour whatever it was,

2:09:03 Speaker 2: you know, just the whole scope of it.

2:09:08 Speaker 1: Obviously things, you know, emotions are probably you know, you're you're,

2:09:12 Speaker 1: you're adrenaline was probably through the roof, right, and you

2:09:16 Speaker 1: don't really realize it until after the fact when you

2:09:19 Speaker 1: start coming down that, Okay, maybe I went a little

2:09:22 Speaker 1: too far on some things. And you know, because people

2:09:26 Speaker 1: started drawing, conclude drawing line between you and stories that

2:09:36 Speaker 1: we're not going to mention them, We're not going to

2:09:37 Speaker 1: talk about it because I don't think it.

2:09:39 Speaker 2: I think it's stupid. But the community that has the

2:09:46 Speaker 2: tendency to draw lines and to conflate things, to fit

2:09:53 Speaker 2: narratives into trying to discredit or to to validate.

2:09:57 Speaker 1: So you got there was a there was a time

2:09:59 Speaker 1: when it you know, it was part of you know, Marky,

2:10:03 Speaker 1: But like you said, I think everything's called full circle,

2:10:07 Speaker 1: and it was all.

2:10:08 Speaker 2: For the best.

2:10:09 Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think so too, And yeah, I just

2:10:13 Speaker 6: wish that people would The one thing I see as

2:10:16 Speaker 6: being a big fallacy with the public outreach part because

2:10:20 Speaker 6: I know that you don't always have a lot of

2:10:22 Speaker 6: time with me to ask the questions. However, I am

2:10:26 Speaker 6: always available to DM me. If you've got a question,

2:10:28 Speaker 6: you've got a theory and you're wondering if it's correct

2:10:31 Speaker 6: or not, just DM me and i'll let you know. Oh, yeah,

2:10:34 Speaker 6: this part of it's good. This part of it, yeah,

2:10:37 Speaker 6: that's a misinterpretation of what has been said, either by

2:10:40 Speaker 6: me or somebody else, And this is what my opinion

2:10:43 Speaker 6: about it is. And I'll let you know if I'm

2:10:45 Speaker 6: talking from opinion or experience, it's best I can. Sometimes

2:10:50 Speaker 6: I forget to do that and say I'm speaking about

2:10:54 Speaker 6: you know, this is actual mission time, this is factual.

2:10:57 Speaker 6: This is an experience that I had one day working

2:11:00 Speaker 6: at work. Whereas, oh, now you're talking about something I

2:11:02 Speaker 6: just have an opinion about from my own analysis and

2:11:05 Speaker 6: my own form of logic, and I've tried to be

2:11:07 Speaker 6: good about that. But if you talk to me and

2:11:10 Speaker 6: you've got some of these ideas, like you know, people

2:11:13 Speaker 6: coming up with oh, well, you know, the reason the

2:11:18 Speaker 6: being was wearing a uniform was because you know, he's

2:11:21 Speaker 6: a warrior and all this other stuff. Think maybe not,

2:11:25 Speaker 6: you know, if you ask me, you know, don't go

2:11:27 Speaker 6: off on the don't don't you know, don't fall off

2:11:29 Speaker 6: the cliff on that idea. It would be my advice

2:11:33 Speaker 6: to you. But yeah, it's a possible theory. Okay, Yeah,

2:11:36 Speaker 6: I could believe that. Okay, you know, but that's the

2:11:39 Speaker 6: kind of stuff that I wish people would come out with,

2:11:41 Speaker 6: because you know, I'm the one who's claiming to have

2:11:45 Speaker 6: had that experience. And if you're taking one or two

2:11:48 Speaker 6: words and you're just trying to put additional context into

2:11:51 Speaker 6: what I'm saying, and then it changes like the context

2:11:55 Speaker 6: of it all, well, please ask me and I'll tell you, Oh, yeah,

2:11:58 Speaker 6: you know, this is the reason I said it that way,

2:12:01 Speaker 6: and I could have said it better, or you know,

2:12:04 Speaker 6: maybe you're right, maybe I mistook what was going on

2:12:08 Speaker 6: and this actually happened this way rather than the other way.

2:12:12 Speaker 6: And I'll be honest with you. I'm a very honest guy.

2:12:14 Speaker 6: I've never tried to be a liar. You know, I've

2:12:17 Speaker 6: held a clearance for jeez, I don't know what forty

2:12:21 Speaker 6: years now, multiple polygraphs, all this stuff that you know. Yes,

2:12:28 Speaker 6: I wish people would stop talking to me about that

2:12:31 Speaker 6: and the other wistle blowers. These people have integrity. They

2:12:34 Speaker 6: are not prone to be liars or deceivers. We're just

2:12:39 Speaker 6: not like that. We're not built like that.

2:12:40 Speaker 1: That's why we got selected for what we do, right,

2:12:43 Speaker 1: That's that's a huge angle for me because if.

2:12:50 Speaker 2: We in the community, you.

2:12:52 Speaker 1: Know, people that are searching for answers, you know we again,

2:12:58 Speaker 1: you know, not all of us experiences and seen things,

2:13:03 Speaker 1: so you know the these what these people tend to

2:13:07 Speaker 1: do is forget that there there's a level of witness.

2:13:11 Speaker 4: Right.

2:13:12 Speaker 2: So there's your your regular Joe Schmo. That would be me.

2:13:15 Speaker 1: Honestly, I'd be a regular Joe Schmo if I if

2:13:19 Speaker 1: I'm telling you something it's coming, you know you you

2:13:22 Speaker 1: have to kind of figure out my credibility that you know,

2:13:26 Speaker 1: based on past and with you. So, but then we

2:13:31 Speaker 1: talk about police officers, astronauts, people that held clearances, people

2:13:37 Speaker 1: that worked on nuclear basis. We we and I say

2:13:42 Speaker 1: that because most of us understand that the level of

2:13:46 Speaker 1: credibility that that alone brings.

2:13:49 Speaker 2: With your testimony.

2:13:51 Speaker 1: Now, if someone who works at a nuclear site comes

2:13:54 Speaker 1: to you and says, so these are the best of

2:13:56 Speaker 1: the best of the best of the best, right, they

2:13:58 Speaker 1: have to report.

2:13:59 Speaker 2: When they take time at all.

2:14:00 Speaker 1: Right, they've had to do all these things to get

2:14:03 Speaker 1: into that job. If that person is now coming to

2:14:06 Speaker 1: you saying, a UFO came over the base and then

2:14:11 Speaker 1: missiles were taken offline, we did everything in our power

2:14:16 Speaker 1: to take them apart trying to figure it out. Nothing,

2:14:18 Speaker 1: no damage. You gotta like you have to take whether

2:14:23 Speaker 1: or not you would you think it's true or not.

2:14:26 Speaker 1: What you owe that person is to listen and hear

2:14:30 Speaker 1: the story, right, And that's what I find that the

2:14:34 Speaker 1: community often doesn't do.

2:14:38 Speaker 6: And they they well, And I blame only a small

2:14:42 Speaker 6: portion of the community for that, because you've got a

2:14:46 Speaker 6: lot of people that are doing exactly what you're saying,

2:14:48 Speaker 6: is that they're respectful, they'll listen. They might not agree

2:14:52 Speaker 6: with everything I think. Julian Dory in that show, he

2:14:57 Speaker 6: definitely He and I did a discussion afterwards. He said,

2:15:00 Speaker 6: I don't believe everything you say. You said, but you've

2:15:02 Speaker 6: really presented your case, and he said, I really don't

2:15:06 Speaker 6: know what to think at this point about some of

2:15:08 Speaker 6: the things you've said. He said, and even if one

2:15:10 Speaker 6: thing of what you've said is true, then it's like,

2:15:13 Speaker 6: holy crap, you know this is this is seriously going

2:15:17 Speaker 6: to rock the world. And I appreciated that. I don't

2:15:21 Speaker 6: want him to believe everything. But the part that I

2:15:24 Speaker 6: think that doesn't belong in any community is that cadre

2:15:28 Speaker 6: of folks that not only have a different theory or

2:15:31 Speaker 6: don't want to go and believe you, they have to

2:15:34 Speaker 6: get ugly.

2:15:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the people that.

2:15:37 Speaker 6: Have to go. Those are the people that you know,

2:15:39 Speaker 6: people like yourself, if you have on your show or

2:15:42 Speaker 6: you're hosting a space, you have to be the leader.

2:15:46 Speaker 6: You have to demand. Look, if you can't stop doing this,

2:15:49 Speaker 6: you're out. And I think a lot more whistleblowers and

2:15:52 Speaker 6: people that have stories to tell that are already scared

2:15:55 Speaker 6: will find a lot more reassurance in the community if

2:15:59 Speaker 6: of a cadre of like that, especially in the UAP community.

2:16:03 Speaker 6: And as soon as you start hearing from people that

2:16:05 Speaker 6: are just gonna, you know, just make people feel terrible,

2:16:09 Speaker 6: just get rid of them quickly. They have in other words,

2:16:14 Speaker 6: that first of all, they're not coming out just because

2:16:17 Speaker 6: they think and feel a certain way does not make things.

2:16:19 Speaker 6: What they say is a fact. It's like me, I

2:16:21 Speaker 6: can say, well, yeah, I love the way your studio

2:16:24 Speaker 6: is hooked up, but that picture behind your head, I

2:16:28 Speaker 6: hate that. Not only do I hate that, I'm gonna

2:16:31 Speaker 6: call you names and I'm gonna make you take it down.

2:16:33 Speaker 6: I want you to take it down because I feel

2:16:35 Speaker 6: a certain way. That's kind of what they're doing in

2:16:37 Speaker 6: the community is they're just trying to bully us into

2:16:40 Speaker 6: just shut up. Believe what I say. And really, what

2:16:45 Speaker 6: I have to say is really my opinion. Your picture

2:16:48 Speaker 6: is actually fine on your wall. There's probably thousands of

2:16:51 Speaker 6: people that appreciate it, and I'm the only guy who's

2:16:53 Speaker 6: got a problem with it, right, And that's why I'm

2:16:56 Speaker 6: saying that has to go out of the community. We

2:16:59 Speaker 6: have to strike those people down, make them feel like

2:17:02 Speaker 6: they're the ones who's got it wrong until they.

2:17:03 Speaker 1: Can act right right and and and and I could,

2:17:07 Speaker 1: like I said, I I could not have said that better,

2:17:10 Speaker 1: my friend. But one last so we were right past

2:17:16 Speaker 1: two hours, coming up on.

2:17:18 Speaker 2: Two and a half. I want to let you go.

2:17:20 Speaker 2: It's our it's certainly.

2:17:22 Speaker 1: You've done and we've already talked off air about the

2:17:25 Speaker 1: stuff that we have that that the potential for stuff

2:17:29 Speaker 1: down the line more in person, and I think, like

2:17:33 Speaker 1: I said, I think as long as we stay in communication,

2:17:35 Speaker 1: those things are gonna come and we're gonna have more

2:17:37 Speaker 1: conversations and we're gonna it's gonna be really fun. I

2:17:41 Speaker 1: I see, I see good things with you, Jason. You're

2:17:44 Speaker 1: you're like I said, you're a very humble, humble person.

2:17:47 Speaker 1: And I I do credit myself in.

2:17:51 Speaker 2: Being able to read someone throughout you.

2:17:55 Speaker 1: I've always been had that ability, right at least to myself,

2:18:00 Speaker 1: and with guys like you, with guys like.

2:18:05 Speaker 2: You know, blood Ceat.

2:18:07 Speaker 1: You have this demeanor, and it's like it's something that's different.

2:18:13 Speaker 1: It's refreshing because, like I said, I don't find you

2:18:16 Speaker 1: rather deceitful. I don't find you seeking you know, fame

2:18:22 Speaker 1: and fortune and speak getting speaking engagements.

2:18:26 Speaker 6: And you know.

2:18:29 Speaker 1: Everything that comes with all that, right, because there are

2:18:32 Speaker 1: people in this community that do arrive on people's sense

2:18:38 Speaker 1: of searching for answers. They pray upon that, and you,

2:18:45 Speaker 1: my friend, I do not find that. I do not

2:18:49 Speaker 1: find you deceitful or in any shape or form trying

2:18:55 Speaker 1: to take advantage or you know, I know this word

2:18:59 Speaker 1: gets thrown around a lot in the community, but grifting yet, Like, okay,

2:19:05 Speaker 1: enough with that, but what is.

2:19:10 Speaker 2: Have you ever felt that you wish you could.

2:19:15 Speaker 1: Unno what you know, that you could just kind of

2:19:18 Speaker 1: put the genie back in the model.

2:19:20 Speaker 2: And I don't know what I'm saying.

2:19:26 Speaker 6: I've never had anybody ask me that before I tell

2:19:28 Speaker 6: you the truth. That's a good, really good quick question. Honestly,

2:19:34 Speaker 6: if I had a respond just right now, off the

2:19:36 Speaker 6: off the cuff, I would say I wouldn't change a thing.

2:19:40 Speaker 6: It's been difficult, just like other parts of my life,

2:19:42 Speaker 6: you know, with my alcoholic dad and him finally getting

2:19:45 Speaker 6: better later in life. It was tough during those years,

2:19:49 Speaker 6: but I learned a lot. Same thing happens here. It

2:19:52 Speaker 6: strengthened my faith in my in my God and my creator.

2:19:57 Speaker 6: It strengthened my knowledge about who we are. It didn't

2:20:01 Speaker 6: make me feel ostracized or belittled by the fact that

2:20:06 Speaker 6: I know that there's other life, and even that other

2:20:10 Speaker 6: life seems to respect, seem to have respect me for

2:20:14 Speaker 6: who I was, and treated me fairly as a coequal. Actually,

2:20:20 Speaker 6: so no I think it served as a bit traumatic. Yes,

2:20:26 Speaker 6: I wish that part I could take away. Maybe that's

2:20:27 Speaker 6: the only part, is that if I could actually know

2:20:30 Speaker 6: what I know now and not be traumatized by the

2:20:33 Speaker 6: whole event, I think that would be better, because it

2:20:37 Speaker 6: seems like That's the other thing about abductees is that,

2:20:41 Speaker 6: just like with me and my encounter in the desert,

2:20:43 Speaker 6: they were surprised. You know, when you're caught off guard

2:20:47 Speaker 6: like that, sometimes your feared runs your mind and horror

2:20:52 Speaker 6: shows begin thereafter. And that's kind of what I wished.

2:20:56 Speaker 6: I had been more knowledgeable about things before it happened.

2:20:59 Speaker 6: But just like everybody else, I got caught off guard

2:21:02 Speaker 6: with this strange encounter driving up to work one day.

2:21:06 Speaker 6: You know, so I can't. I can't take it away.

2:21:09 Speaker 6: I don't think i'd wish it away. I just wish

2:21:12 Speaker 6: I could give it better context. And that's kind of

2:21:14 Speaker 6: what I'm doing now.

2:21:16 Speaker 1: Well that that, my friend is beautifully said, where can

2:21:20 Speaker 1: I'll put all your.

2:21:21 Speaker 2: Just the links for you in the description below, mainly

2:21:26 Speaker 2: just use X yeah.

2:21:29 Speaker 6: I've recently started on what is it, TikTok, yeah, yep,

2:21:36 Speaker 6: and WhatsApp, and it's one other one Instagram. Okay, people

2:21:43 Speaker 6: are people are wanting me to do like quick videos

2:21:46 Speaker 6: and things like this, and some of them are on

2:21:47 Speaker 6: top shows and go live. So yeah, those are some

2:21:50 Speaker 6: of the things I'm starting to build a follower base for.

2:21:53 Speaker 6: But right now, my biggest follower base.

2:21:56 Speaker 1: Is on x and that's at Jason t stand and

2:22:00 Speaker 1: I'll have the links in the description of blow for

2:22:03 Speaker 1: your Instagram, TikTok and anything else that you'd like there.

2:22:07 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for your service, for

2:22:10 Speaker 2: your story, for your willingness to come forward. You know,

2:22:15 Speaker 2: I again I give you. I give you a lot

2:22:19 Speaker 2: of props for how you've done this, how.

2:22:22 Speaker 1: You've approached the community, how you've you know, given respect

2:22:27 Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully for the most part that respect

2:22:31 Speaker 1: is reciprocated from the community.

2:22:35 Speaker 2: Thank you Jason for being on the show today.

2:22:37 Speaker 6: Yes, and thank you for the time. And if anybody

2:22:39 Speaker 6: in the show it's listening. There is a fund that

2:22:43 Speaker 6: I'm trying to stand up for other whistleblowers to come

2:22:45 Speaker 6: forward so that they don't have to suffer the same

2:22:47 Speaker 6: repercussions that I and David Greshav had to suffer because

2:22:50 Speaker 6: our clearances have been wiped and messed with. It's crazy,

2:22:54 Speaker 6: well not totally wiped, but they're just not willing to

2:22:56 Speaker 6: pass them on so that we could reuse them. And

2:22:59 Speaker 6: things like this happen. But I want to at least

2:23:02 Speaker 6: have a pot of money to help other whistle blowers out,

2:23:04 Speaker 6: so that if they can go to the first Hand Fund,

2:23:07 Speaker 6: that would be another link that maybe you can provide

2:23:09 Speaker 6: to your followers. I want to contribute and donate. That

2:23:12 Speaker 6: would be good and that would help us for the

2:23:15 Speaker 6: rest of the community and probably getting some other whistle

2:23:17 Speaker 6: blowers to come forward because they'd feel a bit safer.

2:23:20 Speaker 6: What is it called first hand first hand fund?

2:23:24 Speaker 2: So first hand fund?

2:23:25 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, yeah, I think that's a great thing.

2:23:28 Speaker 1: And and and you know, to little parting way parting words,

2:23:33 Speaker 1: it should not be this way. It should not be

2:23:38 Speaker 1: that you should lose your livelihood for coming forward and

2:23:41 Speaker 1: telling the truth. You know, their needs to be And

2:23:46 Speaker 1: that's why you know, we need to talk to you know, everybody,

2:23:49 Speaker 1: anyone that's listening to this show or listens to the show,

2:23:52 Speaker 1: have an interest in this, in this topic. You know,

2:23:58 Speaker 1: we need to talk to legislation and get protections in

2:24:01 Speaker 1: place for you know, the quote unquote whistle blowers, people

2:24:06 Speaker 1: that are coming forward to first hand experiences. The only

2:24:11 Speaker 1: way we're going to get that is if they know

2:24:13 Speaker 1: that you know, they're going to be protected. These people

2:24:16 Speaker 1: have families, they have livelihoods, and you know they're not

2:24:20 Speaker 1: going to just throw it all away just just for

2:24:24 Speaker 1: the sake of you know, telling you that UFOs exist.

2:24:29 Speaker 6: Yeah, They've got real lives to have to go back to. Yeah, Thankfully,

2:24:33 Speaker 6: I've had a lot of support. I mean, yes, I'm

2:24:35 Speaker 6: still scratching by, you know, financially, but it's been enough

2:24:40 Speaker 6: support to help me. And I do have to thank

2:24:44 Speaker 6: my wife a lot for that as well, and a

2:24:47 Speaker 6: lot of friends from the community also have contributed. So

2:24:49 Speaker 6: it's helped me personally in that regard, especially during the

2:24:53 Speaker 6: tough months this past year. But like I said, I

2:24:57 Speaker 6: just don't want to see any other whistleblowers have to

2:24:58 Speaker 6: suffer the way that I'm going through.

2:25:00 Speaker 2: Those Well, I'll continue, Yeah, I'd like to.

2:25:06 Speaker 1: I'd like to make a contribution as a from Total Disclosure,

2:25:10 Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think, you know, I think

2:25:15 Speaker 1: I'll put in I'll have to to divert some funds

2:25:19 Speaker 1: from the show, but I think, you know, if I

2:25:21 Speaker 1: can give you know, a couple of thousand, that would

2:25:25 Speaker 1: be something I'd actually really like to do and and

2:25:29 Speaker 1: help support what you're doing.

2:25:30 Speaker 6: So fantastic. Thank you very much.

2:25:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, well don't thank me. Yeah, like I said, I'll

2:25:35 Speaker 1: have we can we talk after. But everyone, I'll put

2:25:41 Speaker 1: all those links below. Jason, thank you so much for

2:25:44 Speaker 1: for your time today. Uh Follow Jason, Follow what he's doing.

2:25:50 Speaker 1: Keep an eye on this guy, because you're gonna wanna

2:25:52 Speaker 1: You're gonna wanna be be in the conversation, uh in

2:25:55 Speaker 1: the future.

2:25:57 Speaker 2: With that said, guys, you know what to do.

2:26:01 Speaker 1: Follow, like, subscribe, share, you know, if you're watching on

2:26:05 Speaker 1: video formats, if you're listening on one of the amazing

2:26:08 Speaker 1: podcast platforms, you can leave a review, sometimes a star rating,

2:26:13 Speaker 1: or just follow the show.

2:26:15 Speaker 2: It truly helps. It's all free. We have other ways

2:26:18 Speaker 2: you can support the.

2:26:18 Speaker 1: Show, monetarily by joining on YouTube or atreon all those

2:26:21 Speaker 1: links in the description below. It helps us keep doing things.

2:26:25 Speaker 1: Next Saturday, I'm going to talk. I'm going to tour

2:26:32 Speaker 1: the Galileo Observatory with Avi Lobe and then interview them after,

2:26:37 Speaker 1: so you know, to be able to continue to do

2:26:39 Speaker 1: things like that that you know, support from everyone that

2:26:43 Speaker 1: watches and listens. That's the only way I continue to

2:26:47 Speaker 1: make these things happen. But you know, like I said,

2:26:50 Speaker 1: I love it. It's truly the best. Thank you so

2:26:53 Speaker 1: much everybody. We'll see you on the other And.

2:26:59 Speaker 3: Then I think, and I think that the thing other

2:27:03 Speaker 3: thing that I think then and I think that