The Call Is Coming from Inside the Sky: UAP-PD Speaks Out! Part 1
In this gripping episode, retired Arizona law enforcement officers Marianne Robb and Dave Rich – with a combined 59 years on the job – pull back the curtain on one of the most taboo topics in policing: encounters with Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), paranormal events, and cryptids.
As founders of the UAP-PD, Marianne and Dave reveal why so many officers and first responders have stayed silent about what they’ve seen in the line of duty – from inexplicable lights in the Arizona sky to chilling ground-level confrontations with the unknown. They share their own firsthand experiences and compelling stories collected from fellow officers who finally felt safe enough to speak. What happens when the people sworn to protect and serve come face-to-face with phenomena they can’t explain… and aren’t allowed to talk about?
Why do seasoned cops, deputies, and dispatchers choose silence over sharing evidence that could change everything? Join us for an eye-opening conversation that bridges the gap between badge and bizarre, featuring some of the most credible and unsettling UAP, paranormal, and cryptid cases ever reported by law enforcement professionals. Prepare to have your perception of reality challenged – this is where law enforcement meets the truly unknown.
Part 1 of 2
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Total Disclosure. Everyone.
Speaker 2: My name's Ty and I am the host of the show.
Speaker 2: Total Disclosure is where we dig deep into the unknown,
Speaker 2: the unexplained, and the unbelievable and bring truth to focus. Today,
Speaker 2: I'm super happy to be joined by two extraordinary guests
Speaker 2: who are doing something few I've dared to do. They're
Speaker 2: bridging the gap between law enforcement and the unexplained. Together,
Speaker 2: they've got nearly six decades of experience in policing. Mary
Speaker 2: and Rob, who I've met at Contact in the Desert,
Speaker 2: is a retired Arizona officer with thirty four years of
Speaker 2: service from arson and narcotics investigations to crime prevention and
Speaker 2: forensic construction. She has spent the last decade applying that
Speaker 2: same discipline to the study of UFOs, the paranormal and beyond.
Speaker 2: Dave Rich, also a retired officer with the Arizona PD,
Speaker 2: twenty five years in the field, working everything from homicide
Speaker 2: and ganging investigations to school resource work. He brings some
Speaker 2: of the meticulous eye for detail to this anomalous world
Speaker 2: of encounters.
Speaker 1: The two co founded what is known as.
Speaker 2: UAPPD, an organization creating a safe zone for officers and
Speaker 2: first responders to share their UFO paranormal encrypted encounters without
Speaker 2: stigma or the fear of retribution. When it comes to
Speaker 2: their career. Their emission is to bring professionalism, evidence based methods,
Speaker 2: and respect to investigations of the unknown. Again, we're dealing
Speaker 2: with the most complex phenomena in ever, so again we
Speaker 2: have to be humble, we have to be open to
Speaker 2: things that we can't really quite explain. In this conversation,
Speaker 2: we'll unpack how UAPPD is changing the culture around the
Speaker 2: unexplained phenomena and why it's time for law enforcement to
Speaker 2: play a leading role in uncovering the truth. So with that,
Speaker 2: before we get into it, make sure to share and subscribe,
Speaker 2: and if you're listening to one of the great podcast platforms,
Speaker 2: please leave a rating and review. Takes twenty seconds and
Speaker 2: it really helps to show get out to a broader audience.
Speaker 2: We can't do this without you, and I truly, from
Speaker 2: the bottom of my heart, thank you. So let's get
Speaker 2: into it. Here are Mary Anne and Dave the U
Speaker 2: a p p D. And I didn't have the thank
Speaker 2: you to the U A p p D. H.
Speaker 1: Well, Hello, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna have to edit that little uh that little intro
Speaker 2: there right at the end. But other than that, I'm
Speaker 2: super happy to have you here.
Speaker 1: Guys.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Thanks, we'd love to be here. We
Speaker 3: appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mary, Maryanne. I met you at Contact in the Desert,
Speaker 2: and I remember, I remember, I think I had left
Speaker 2: my phone. This might have been when we first had met,
Speaker 2: but I introduced.
Speaker 1: Chris Bledsoe.
Speaker 2: On his panel and then I left my phone on
Speaker 2: stage and then I jumped off stage and then ran
Speaker 2: out the door because I had a bunch of interviews
Speaker 2: I was conducting throughout those you know, four days, and uh,
Speaker 2: I think that's when I met you. And I was
Speaker 2: instantly like, I got to have these people are on
Speaker 2: what they're doing is so cool. You're friends with Mark D'Antonio,
Speaker 2: which is I mean, he's one of my favorite people
Speaker 2: on the planet. So it seemed like it was inevitable.
Speaker 4: Oh well, that was pretty funny, though I remembered you
Speaker 4: were in an absolute panic because you didn't have your
Speaker 4: phone and your whole life is on the phone.
Speaker 3: Oh it was, It was.
Speaker 4: It was so cute and you were just so awesome
Speaker 4: and it was great to be able to finally meet
Speaker 4: you and Mark's talked so much highly about me, talk
Speaker 4: so much about you and so highly. I was real
Speaker 4: excited to get to meet you and talk to you.
Speaker 3: For a little bit.
Speaker 4: You were running around like a chicken with the head
Speaker 4: cut off, so and stuff. So I was so happy
Speaker 4: to at least spend a few minutes with you talking
Speaker 4: about just everything that's going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I think one of the coolest parts
Speaker 2: about about conferences, conferences like that is that it I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can go, you can go for the you know,
Speaker 2: the lectures, and you can go for the speakers if
Speaker 2: you want to hear certain somebody. But I find that
Speaker 2: what they're really really good for is that networking of
Speaker 2: like minded individuals. So it was really nice and and
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to get into it with uh Dave
Speaker 2: as well. So, I mean, without further further delay, well
Speaker 2: let's jump right in.
Speaker 1: Both of you spent decades.
Speaker 2: In law enforcement, and you had careers built on truth,
Speaker 2: evidence and accountability.
Speaker 1: We'll start.
Speaker 2: You know, however, you guys want to start, you know,
Speaker 2: bounce off of each other, that's quite all right. It's
Speaker 2: it's easier said than done. We'll try not to tako
Speaker 2: over each other. But what moment or experience made you
Speaker 2: step across that line into the unknown and into the
Speaker 2: world of UFOs and the unexplained.
Speaker 3: Well, let me go ahead and start off again. You've
Speaker 3: introduced me, and I thank you for that.
Speaker 4: Mary Anne Rob thirty four years as a police officer
Speaker 4: here in Arizona. The last twenty six years was with
Speaker 4: the Gilbert Police Department, where I met Dave.
Speaker 3: We worked many years together, partnering up.
Speaker 4: But as an officer, I've worked as you said, I
Speaker 4: was a narcotics officer, I was a crime prevention, an
Speaker 4: arson detective, and property crimes and of course, like we
Speaker 4: all start out as a police officer, patrol.
Speaker 5: Now, patrol was.
Speaker 3: Always my favorite.
Speaker 4: I just love to be out there in my patrol
Speaker 4: car by myself, just you know, cruising around taking calls.
Speaker 4: That was always my favorite. But also I had hobbies.
Speaker 4: Of course, I love to fish, love to hunt, especially
Speaker 4: here in Arizona. But one of the organizations that Dave
Speaker 4: and I were both involved in for probably close to
Speaker 4: ten years was an organization called moufon, which is the
Speaker 4: Mutual UFO Network.
Speaker 3: And excuse me, we were out here in.
Speaker 4: The Phoenix area and we also became field investigators, and
Speaker 4: that was kind of an interesting.
Speaker 3: Position through Moufon, you know, being cops ourselves.
Speaker 4: It was kind of nice doing these investigations because we
Speaker 4: knew how to interview.
Speaker 3: Now we know.
Speaker 4: How to interrogate, but we can't interrogate these folks, but
Speaker 4: we know body language, we know what to look for.
Speaker 3: And one of the things we did for.
Speaker 4: Moufon is when we had the boot camp for about
Speaker 4: six years, Phoenix did a boot camp, a Fueld Investigator
Speaker 4: boot camp, and our training, what we taught everybody was
Speaker 4: the advanced interview techniques. So that's what you know, that's
Speaker 4: what we did with these new guys that wanted to
Speaker 4: become field investigators or people that were already field investigators
Speaker 4: that wanted to just brush up on their techniques. So
Speaker 4: we're doing that. And I was at a meeting one
Speaker 4: of the move On meetings in Phoenix, oh gosh, probably
Speaker 4: mid twenty twenty two, so about three years ago or so,
Speaker 4: and the topic was disclosure and that military started to
Speaker 4: come forward and talking which the disclosure. They're trying to,
Speaker 4: you know, talk to about my own personal They'll never
Speaker 4: be disclosure. That's that's just me. So after the meeting
Speaker 4: was over, I'm thinking, I'm talking to a good friend
Speaker 4: of mine, Olejandro Rojas, and we're like.
Speaker 5: Wait a minute. You got the military talking, You've.
Speaker 3: Got airline pilots.
Speaker 4: They're starting to talk, and then disclosure disclosure thing comes out,
Speaker 4: and I'm thinking, Wow, we're police officers, we're first responders.
Speaker 4: We're part of that whole grouping of cops, firefighters.
Speaker 3: You know, nursing em tis all that. Why aren't we talking.
Speaker 4: There's over eight hundred thousand law enforcement officers just in
Speaker 4: this country alone, and.
Speaker 2: Those are all trained observer, at least to a degree,
Speaker 2: all trained professional observers. That in my opinion, again, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying like a cop or someone in the military,
Speaker 2: you know, their sighting is more credible than a citizen's,
Speaker 2: but you're also trained to see things that others just
Speaker 2: will miss.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. That's how I've all seen.
Speaker 4: You know, there's cops, like I said, there's eight hundred thousand,
Speaker 4: and they're working day, they're working night.
Speaker 3: They're out there like I always love to be on patrol.
Speaker 4: I'm out there under the big open sky and there
Speaker 4: are cops there. You know they're seeing things. But again,
Speaker 4: why aren't they talking? So that evening I gave Dave
Speaker 4: a call and I told him about the meeting, and
Speaker 4: I told him about what Alejandro and I spoke about.
Speaker 4: And I says, dude, why aren't they talking? Why aren't
Speaker 4: cops talking about this stuff? And all you've had to
Speaker 4: say was I'll tell you exactly why they're not talking.
Speaker 4: And then he proceeded to tell me why. And I'm
Speaker 4: going to let him take over from here.
Speaker 1: Oh what a what A what a swing? I love it.
Speaker 5: So just to go a little bit back to my
Speaker 5: history and how I got involved twenty five years as
Speaker 5: a police officer. I started in patrol like everybody else,
Speaker 5: and then I went to gangs. I worked a gang
Speaker 5: unit for a while, and then I went to homicide
Speaker 5: and sex crime, so I worked homicide, sex crimes, child crimes.
Speaker 5: Then I ended up over in our gang unit but
Speaker 5: specializing in narcotics, got involved in a DEA task force,
Speaker 5: and then I ended up back as an SRO to
Speaker 5: finish off my career just kind of working with alien
Speaker 5: life forms, which were high school students. But when up
Speaker 5: until it's ironic because up until twenty seventeen, I would
Speaker 5: be considered what was a hardcore skeptic. I did not
Speaker 5: believe ghosts exist. I didn't believe UFOs exist. I didn't
Speaker 5: believe Bigfoot existed. I thought it was all just misidentifications. Something,
Speaker 5: you know, somebody saw something that they shouldn't, or it
Speaker 5: was military craft or something like that. But then in
Speaker 5: twenty seventeen, I had an experience while I was working,
Speaker 5: and this is the story that I went to tell
Speaker 5: Marianne about. Was when I was working as a school
Speaker 5: resource officer at one of the schools, we received a
Speaker 5: nine to one one call from the front desk of
Speaker 5: the school. Call sounded like a woman that said I'm scared.
Speaker 5: Dispatcher says you're scared. It says no, and then you
Speaker 5: hear the phone drop on the countertop. So they dispatch
Speaker 5: two officers to it. They go to it, make entry
Speaker 5: with a knoxbox key. They don't find anybody inside there.
Speaker 5: They find the phone laying on the counter. They pick
Speaker 5: it up and talk to the dispatcher was still online
Speaker 5: trying to get the person to pick up the phone.
Speaker 5: They do a search. When they go walking into the
Speaker 5: nurses office, something that neither of them could see sclved
Speaker 5: past them and out They run out of the nurse's office.
Speaker 5: They don't see anything there but something physically.
Speaker 2: So yeah, So you're saying like when you got there,
Speaker 2: when when you guys got there the phone was was
Speaker 2: there and it would it was still patched through to dispatch.
Speaker 1: It had never hung up.
Speaker 2: And then something that you guys can't see walks and
Speaker 2: pushes past you.
Speaker 5: Well, I wasn't there.
Speaker 1: It was two patrol Oh that's what I meant. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
Speaker 5: Somebody may not see pushed past them out of the
Speaker 5: nurse's office.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 5: So the way I get involved is I show that
Speaker 5: night happened to be prom So I show up as
Speaker 5: it's a Saturday. There was nobody at the school. The
Speaker 5: principal looks at me and goes, hey, did you hear
Speaker 5: about the nine one one call? It the school? And
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, why would there be a nine one
Speaker 5: one call? This was nobody there. He's like, you need
Speaker 5: to call dispatch. So I called this batch. Hey was
Speaker 5: there nine one one call at my school? Dispatcher starts
Speaker 5: laughing and says, hey, you need to talk to this officer.
Speaker 5: Like why won't anybody give me an answer? So I
Speaker 5: call this officer and I say hey. I actually sent
Speaker 5: him a text. I said hey, did you end up
Speaker 5: at my school today? And his response was, dude, your
Speaker 5: school is blank haunted using the half word. And at
Speaker 5: this point I'm looking at this again, remember hardcore skeptic
Speaker 5: at this time looking at the phone going right. So
Speaker 5: I call him. He proceeds to tell me what happened,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, er, so I don't think much of it.
Speaker 5: Go through the prom Monday morning shows up. My sergeant
Speaker 5: looks at me and says, hey, you need to investigate
Speaker 5: this nine one one call, and I'm like, why is it? Well,
Speaker 5: it's misuse of nine one one. Part of them were
Speaker 5: thinking like, is there somebody that has found a way
Speaker 5: to compromise the nine on one system. We need to
Speaker 5: look into it. So I do a full blown investigation.
Speaker 5: I pulled the nine on one tape, I pulled the
Speaker 5: security footage from the front desk of the school. I
Speaker 5: start talking to people. I start I get a hold
Speaker 5: of the phone, the people at the school district that
Speaker 5: handle the phones. I run down every possible lead I can.
Speaker 5: I checked, could it have come from a classroom routed
Speaker 5: through the front desk? No, because in the nine one
Speaker 5: one screen. It will literally tell you what classroom it
Speaker 5: came from. This clearly said reception B phone, which was
Speaker 5: the second phone the one in question. Plus it doesn't
Speaker 5: the dispatcher also then says that also doesn't explain how
Speaker 5: it was off the hook when the officer got there
Speaker 5: and picked up and had a conversation with dispatch. So
Speaker 5: we ran down every possible lead I checked. Could somebody
Speaker 5: tap into the phone line old school like literally break
Speaker 5: open the phone box and tap in. No, still doesn't
Speaker 5: explain how the phone is off the hook. Right, run
Speaker 5: down everything, I can't figure it out. So I get
Speaker 5: the security footage. That phone is almost dead center of
Speaker 5: the screen. Now it's detailed enough to see all around
Speaker 5: it and see if there's somebody standing at it. It's
Speaker 5: not detailed enough to see the phone itself because it's
Speaker 5: kind of under this little ledge. It's about eBay, but
Speaker 5: you can see if there's somebody on that phone, you
Speaker 5: can see them.
Speaker 2: You would, yeah, you would see like the idea, would
Speaker 2: you see them outline of them or would you would
Speaker 2: you see them?
Speaker 5: Because it was right before noon, so it was light
Speaker 5: in the room, not fully lit, but lit enough that
Speaker 5: if somebody was standing there. You can see them. So
Speaker 5: I take it back all the way to six in
Speaker 5: the morning, even though the call came in just before noon,
Speaker 5: and I watch. At about seven o'clock. One of the
Speaker 5: security guards comes in through the back door, doesn't go
Speaker 5: anywhere near the phone, grab some paper to make a
Speaker 5: sign for restrooms because they have football going on, like
Speaker 5: a little league football game out at the sports field.
Speaker 5: So she leaves. So there's three sets of motion detecting
Speaker 5: lights right there at that desk. There's one in front
Speaker 5: of it, one directly over it, and one behind it.
Speaker 5: When the security guard came in, the ones in front
Speaker 5: of it clicked on. After twenty minutes, they click off.
Speaker 5: I keep watching forward. At about twenty after ten, the
Speaker 5: lights over the desk turn on. There's nothing there. I
Speaker 5: can't if anybody was there, they would have turned on
Speaker 5: the lights either in front of the desk or behind
Speaker 5: the desk, but neither of those turned on, just the
Speaker 5: ones over the desk. After twenty minutes, the lights click on.
Speaker 5: At the time that that nine one one call comes in,
Speaker 5: there's nobody at that phone. None of the lights click on.
Speaker 5: There's nothing. Fourteen minutes after that, I watched the patrol
Speaker 5: officers walk in on the bottom of the screen through
Speaker 5: the front door. I see one walk right over to
Speaker 5: the desk, pick up the phone. I see him have
Speaker 5: the conversation, and then they hang up, and then they
Speaker 5: proceed to search. When they walked into the room, you
Speaker 5: saw the first set of lights click on. When he
Speaker 5: got to the desk. You saw the ones over the
Speaker 5: desk click on. When they start searching around, then the
Speaker 5: ones behind the desk click on. So there is not
Speaker 5: a doubt in my mind that there was nobody at
Speaker 5: that phone when that phone call came in the office
Speaker 5: is not in screen though, So you see them go
Speaker 5: into a room at the bottom, and you see them
Speaker 5: both run out like a fraction of a second later.
Speaker 2: Hum in the in the tape, do you see the
Speaker 2: phone move at all. It's not detailed enough to see
Speaker 2: this to see the Actually, oh, that's right, that's right. So,
Speaker 2: because I was gonna say, you know, assuming that they
Speaker 2: walked in and the phone was like off the hook,
Speaker 2: that does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Would the phone have been off the hook?
Speaker 2: So fifteen seconds, Jesus, that's that out.
Speaker 5: I took the phone off the hook and said, okay,
Speaker 5: maybe because again remember, hardcore skeptic, there is a logical
Speaker 5: explanation to this. So one of the things was the
Speaker 5: phone fell off the hook probably Friday when the secretary left,
Speaker 5: and it's just been laying on the counter all weekend,
Speaker 5: you know either. So I'm like, okay, let's take the
Speaker 5: phone off the hook and let's see does it stay
Speaker 5: as an open line. Doesn't really explain how nine one
Speaker 5: one got called, but let's see if if it's still
Speaker 5: it stays an active line. After fifteen seconds, it cuts
Speaker 5: out there it is no longer an active line. I
Speaker 5: tried pushing buttons, I tried doing all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 5: The phone goes completely dead on that line after fifteen
Speaker 5: seconds of being left off the.
Speaker 1: Lock of inactivity. Right, wow, So I mean the story?
Speaker 1: Oh oh oh, we're not even done yet.
Speaker 5: Oh no, we're not. Yeah, trust me. Oh okay, hardcore skeptic.
Speaker 5: So I am running down every possible lead. I cannot
Speaker 5: even them up with any other leads we checked. Was
Speaker 5: it a computer that somebody could have patched into the
Speaker 5: line from a different location, Well, it doesn't explain how
Speaker 5: the phone got off the hook and the open line
Speaker 5: got there. And keep in mind, this is twenty seventeen.
Speaker 5: So this is before AI or chant, GBT, any of
Speaker 5: those things. None of that existed yet, right, I run
Speaker 5: down every possible lead. So I take the audio recording,
Speaker 5: I send it off to be analyzed because I'm like,
Speaker 5: maybe there's something. Maybe it's like a completely fake voice
Speaker 5: and it's not real at all, and it's all computer
Speaker 5: generated somehow.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, so, like, you know, because for instance,
Speaker 2: I work for a security company and it seems someone
Speaker 2: has hacked. But this is also twenty twenty five we're
Speaker 2: talking about, so yeah, and it was, and it was
Speaker 2: a it's our system is a VoIP, so like, someone
Speaker 2: has the ability to call out as our company, but
Speaker 2: they don't say anything, and the lines like dead and
Speaker 2: we can't figure out who it is. We've been trying
Speaker 2: to shut it down. Did you look into any possibilities
Speaker 2: like that where someone could be jacking the phone number
Speaker 2: itself to mask the call.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and on top of that that, we did look
Speaker 5: into that. But on top of that, it still doesn't
Speaker 5: explain how the phone is off the hook with an
Speaker 5: open line to nine one one.
Speaker 1: Right, So this is oh, yeah.
Speaker 5: We checked everything. I was one hundred percent convinced I
Speaker 5: am going to find the solution to this. I run
Speaker 5: down everything. We finally get to the point where we
Speaker 5: get the results back from the nine one one call
Speaker 5: the guy who did the I don't know what kind
Speaker 5: of technology he used to check it, but we were
Speaker 5: basically checking to see is it a completely computer generated voice?
Speaker 5: Is it a human voice recording of a human voice? What
Speaker 5: could this possibly be? He tells me two things. He's like, First,
Speaker 5: you need to know it's not a human voice. So
Speaker 5: my instinct was, oh, it's a computer voice. He's like no,
Speaker 5: He's like, I don't know what this is. More importantly,
Speaker 5: you know, it's not saying I'm scared. And I was like, what,
Speaker 5: because up until this point we thought it was it
Speaker 5: sounds like a voice clear as day. Says what we
Speaker 5: thought was I'm scared. Dispatcher says, what was that? And
Speaker 5: then it responds with I'm scared. Dispatcher says, you're scared,
Speaker 5: and then it says no, and then you hear the
Speaker 5: phone drop on the counter. The guy tells me it's
Speaker 5: not saying I'm scared. What it actually says is I scare.
Speaker 5: And so when the dispatcher said, you're scared it, responded.
Speaker 1: With no, obviously not. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I continue my investigation and I'm like, Okay, this
Speaker 5: is really messed up again. Hardcore skeptic Dave is going
Speaker 5: to find the answer. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 5: but we're gonna find the answer. So I go to
Speaker 5: the nurse's office because I realized, well, you know what,
Speaker 5: this supposed thing that ryan into them must have been
Speaker 5: in the nurse's office because that's where they encountered it.
Speaker 5: So I walk into the nurse's office. Sure enough, the
Speaker 5: nurse happens to be the wife of a sheriff's deputy
Speaker 5: and I've known her for six years at this point.
Speaker 5: So I walk in, very friendly, very outgoing personality. I'm
Speaker 5: talking to her about, Hey, did you hear about this
Speaker 5: phone call?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: I didn't hear about it. I kind of start telling
Speaker 5: her a little bit about it, and she clams up.
Speaker 5: She's like, I don't know anything about that, Like complete
Speaker 5: change of personality. And you know, at this point, i'd
Speaker 5: been a cop for sixteen years, and I'm like, I
Speaker 5: can tell when somebody's hiding something. So I'm like, something's up.
Speaker 5: So I kind of leave. I come back about it
Speaker 5: two three hours later, and everything is fine. She's friendly,
Speaker 5: happy until I bring up the phone message and the
Speaker 5: phone call, and then she clams back up. So I'm like, okay,
Speaker 5: now I know there's something. So I leave and my
Speaker 5: mind is racing, like is it Maybe she's got kids,
Speaker 5: maybe one of them screwing around and got in the office.
Speaker 5: But how are they not on the film? How are
Speaker 5: they not on the cameras going on? But I'm still
Speaker 5: thinking there's an answer here, So I wait three days.
Speaker 5: I go back to her office and she's again back
Speaker 5: to her normal self, friendly, outgoing until I bring up
Speaker 5: this phone call and she takes her pen and slams
Speaker 5: her pen on the counter and says, fine, I'll tell you.
Speaker 5: I'm like, tell me what. She then proceeds to tell
Speaker 5: me that her entire life, she has been followed by
Speaker 5: a ghost or some sort of apparition at her house
Speaker 5: that will and she described this type of stuff, and
Speaker 5: we have confirmed it with her husband and her son,
Speaker 5: who are both Shaff's deputies. Now they have things have
Speaker 5: like they hear footsteps upstairs where they know there's nobody there,
Speaker 5: doors slamming, their dog will bark at nothing in the
Speaker 5: corner she has seen things run past. Her husband has
Speaker 5: seen things run past. Looked almost like a little girl
Speaker 5: running past down the hallway. She tells me all this stuff,
Speaker 5: and I'm looking at her and I'm like at this,
Speaker 5: I'm like, I can't figure out what this is. Now,
Speaker 5: I got somebody that I trust. It's telling me a
Speaker 5: story that I'm finding unbelievable. But I keep getting back
Speaker 5: to why can I not explain how this phone call it?
Speaker 5: So she then proceeds to tell me that When I
Speaker 5: ask her, why didn't you tell me this before, She's like,
Speaker 5: because three weeks ago, everything at the house stopped. Everything
Speaker 5: was peaceful. And I'm like, well, then, why did you
Speaker 5: tell me now? She's because last night everything started at
Speaker 5: the house again. I end up going back and checking
Speaker 5: that nine to one one call that we got was
Speaker 5: the third nine to one one call from the front
Speaker 5: desk of that school, but it was the only one
Speaker 5: that had a voice, and those nine to one one
Speaker 5: calls started three weeks before, so everything lined up. So again,
Speaker 5: ty I went from a hardcore skeptic to I don't
Speaker 5: know if it was a ghost. I don't know what
Speaker 5: the heck it was. Maybe it's just technology we don't
Speaker 5: understand yet, but I've transitioned from being that hardcore skeptic
Speaker 5: to Okay, I'm willing to be open to stuff a
Speaker 5: little bit here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So then when I ended up meeting I went to
Speaker 5: a different school, and that was when I started meeting
Speaker 5: up with people from Moufon and that's when they asked
Speaker 5: us to design this class for the lesson plan and
Speaker 5: stuff like that, for investigation and stuff like that. And
Speaker 5: one of the things that I loved is the same
Speaker 5: techniques that I used during that investigation to try and
Speaker 5: figure out that ghost story or whatever it was, was
Speaker 5: the same techniques that they can use during their investigation.
Speaker 5: And I'm being reminded by the person sitting next to me,
Speaker 5: I forgot probably the most important part of the story.
Speaker 5: So about two weeks after I gather all this evidence
Speaker 5: and I'm working this case, I get a phone call
Speaker 5: and it's from a sergeant that's upstairs. And anybody who's
Speaker 5: in law enforcement or even fire, any first responder knows
Speaker 5: what the term is a call from upstairs means. So
Speaker 5: when I meet with this sergeant, I walk into his office.
Speaker 5: He has two computer screens set up. One of them
Speaker 5: is the voice analysis of the voice. The other one
Speaker 5: is the security footage from the school. He plays them
Speaker 5: both looks at me and says, you believe me, you
Speaker 5: expect me to believe this, And I look at him
Speaker 5: and I'm like, I really don't care what you believe.
Speaker 5: This is what I found. This is my investigation. This
Speaker 5: is what I found. He proceeded to accuse me of
Speaker 5: being a liar, of trying to pull something over on him,
Speaker 5: making up the whole thing, and basically ended it with
Speaker 5: telling me that you will not talk about this and
Speaker 5: if you do, there will be repercussions. And so I
Speaker 5: ended up walking out of there, And first of all,
Speaker 5: let me tell you I was angry. I'm going to
Speaker 5: clean my language up for you. I was angry because
Speaker 5: I walked out of the room and this guy was
Speaker 5: a sergeant in name only, guy never did anything his
Speaker 5: entire career. I got promoted, I had at this point,
Speaker 5: I had the Life Saving Award, Meritorious Conduct, Distinguished Service,
Speaker 5: Distinguished Team Citation three times, and like I had more
Speaker 5: ribbons on my class A uniform than I knew what
Speaker 5: to do with. And this guy's accusing me of being
Speaker 5: a liar, accusing me of making this up. And the
Speaker 5: problem was is he had all the leverage, and I
Speaker 5: knew it the moment I walked out of his office.
Speaker 5: If I say anything, my career is probably over. And
Speaker 5: so when mary Ann called me all those years later
Speaker 5: and says, why don't police officers talk about it? I
Speaker 5: told her that whole story, and I said, the reason
Speaker 5: they don't talk about it is because we can't. If
Speaker 5: we do, it's a threat to our career.
Speaker 2: And it's not even and not I'm sorry to interject here,
Speaker 2: but coming from a family that that is you know,
Speaker 2: military law enforcement. And I'm sure you guys can back
Speaker 2: us up, you know, brother in arms. Right, So if
Speaker 2: this comes into the precinct right with you, it comes
Speaker 2: much much like this ghost with the nurse. It seems
Speaker 2: to hitchhike itself onto everybody, right, And that means the precinct,
Speaker 2: your whole squadron is now quote unquote the laughing stalker.
Speaker 1: At least that's what they're afraid of.
Speaker 5: Yes, And that's one of the things because when Alejandro
Speaker 5: Rojas was talking to Marianne about it, when we were
Speaker 5: talking about why it happened, he had never heard anything
Speaker 5: like that. We broke down all of the different stigmas
Speaker 5: that officers would face at that moment where they have
Speaker 5: to decide do I talk about what I experienced or
Speaker 5: do I not? And Alejandro was like, you guys need
Speaker 5: to kind of talk about this because right now everybody
Speaker 5: thinks that police and law enforcement and first responders are
Speaker 5: all part of some global coo to hide the truth.
Speaker 5: And I'm telling them that has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 5: I'm being held like my career is being held over
Speaker 5: my head, saying if you keep talking, you're gonna better
Speaker 5: get used to asking people if they want fries with that.
Speaker 5: Because you're not getting a job with another police agency.
Speaker 5: You're done. And because and it all stems from as
Speaker 5: an officer, you touched on it at the beginning. We
Speaker 5: have two things going for us on any case, the
Speaker 5: evidence that we collect at that case and our credibility
Speaker 5: on we being the ones that collected it and we
Speaker 5: got the statements and we gathered all the stuff. Those
Speaker 5: are the two things. They were basically saying that my
Speaker 5: credibility was going to be shocked because they're going to
Speaker 5: basically say that I made this all up. Therefore, my
Speaker 5: credibility is shocked and my effective this is an officer.
Speaker 1: Is done absolutely And that's.
Speaker 5: That's ultimately why we created UAPPD, because we started by
Speaker 5: just wanting to tell people, hey, just say you know,
Speaker 5: this isn't like police aren't hiding the truth about a
Speaker 5: or bigfoot or ghosts or something like that. We're kind
Speaker 5: of in this catch twenty two where we can't talk
Speaker 5: about it, but it's not because we don't want to
Speaker 5: talk about it. And so I sat there for six
Speaker 5: years with this story that I was not able to
Speaker 5: talk to about anyone because I said, still had six
Speaker 5: years left in my career. So I just buried it
Speaker 5: and kept it hidden every time I got called upstairs
Speaker 5: wondering is this the day did somebody say something? Did
Speaker 5: it end up causing problems until the day to paper,
Speaker 5: until the day that I retired, And then it became
Speaker 5: we can't stop me now, And so we created UAPPD
Speaker 5: for basically two reasons. Really. The first one is to
Speaker 5: provide a safe environment for first responders to talk about
Speaker 5: the stuff that they've seen. We're not going to judge anybody.
Speaker 5: We don't judge, we don't criticize, we don't make fun of,
Speaker 5: we don't do anything. A lot of times we won't
Speaker 5: even do an investigation if they don't want us to
Speaker 5: do an investor. We're just a sounding board more often
Speaker 5: than anything else, right, just to give them that safe
Speaker 5: environment where we can where they can talk, and then
Speaker 5: we ask them, can we take your stories because we
Speaker 5: do stage presentations, we did podcasts like yours, things like
Speaker 5: that where we're trying to get word of our organization
Speaker 5: out there to get more stories, and it's been relatively
Speaker 5: successful since we've got stories from all over. When I
Speaker 5: say the world, I'm not kidding. We got a story
Speaker 5: about last month of a UFO sighting in Australia that
Speaker 5: a police constable called us and did a zoom interview
Speaker 5: and gave us a video and stuff like that from Australia.
Speaker 5: So we've got we know from a fact that we've
Speaker 5: got comments from South Africa, Ireland, Scotland, Mexico, Canada, New Zealand,
Speaker 5: so we know we're getting out there and we're getting
Speaker 5: stories from places outside of the country.
Speaker 2: Again kind of going back to this whole notion that again,
Speaker 2: you know, not only is this not just something that's
Speaker 2: happened in the United States, to the officers in military here.
Speaker 2: But again, you know, I think a big misconception is
Speaker 2: that everything happens in the United.
Speaker 1: States, when that's very far from the truth. This is
Speaker 1: a global.
Speaker 2: This is a global issue, and I again I say
Speaker 2: issue with quotations because we don't really know what like
Speaker 2: the intent is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's why, like, like we're we're known for
Speaker 5: not pushing our own beliefs on people. We don't want to.
Speaker 5: We don't want I don't ever want an officer to
Speaker 5: come in here and listen, have him listen to me
Speaker 5: telling him what I believe. Right, it doesn't matter what
Speaker 5: I believe. It matters what they believe in what they saw,
Speaker 5: And so we give them an opportunity to talk, We
Speaker 5: give them an opportunity to get it off their chest
Speaker 5: in a safe environment. We like to use it to
Speaker 5: kind of encourage other officers because ultimately, like my goal, ultimately,
Speaker 5: other than to help these first responders and ride that
Speaker 5: safe environment is I would love to be able to
Speaker 5: push that needle a little bit because again, twenty seventeen,
Speaker 5: I didn't believe in any of this stuff. And now
Speaker 5: I've had a number of incidents during some of our investigations,
Speaker 5: some of our contacts, seeing some videos and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: and I'm willing to start taking things a little bit
Speaker 5: on faith. I want proof like everybody else, but I'm
Speaker 5: also willing to go into it with a little bit
Speaker 5: of an open mind. Right. And one of the things
Speaker 5: that we noticed when we speak to officers who are
Speaker 5: officers that are stationed on a reservation versus officers that
Speaker 5: are not, the guys on the revs don't seem to
Speaker 5: have the same stigmas. And it all comes down to
Speaker 5: one thing. Their culture has a much more open belief
Speaker 5: on these topics than people not on the reservation. So
Speaker 5: when I'm told one of the officers from the Healer
Speaker 5: River Reservation out here, when he was telling a story,
Speaker 5: I told him about what happened to me getting called
Speaker 5: up stairs, and he couldn't believe it because he did
Speaker 5: his entire career there, and he's like, we would never
Speaker 5: that would never happen to us, Like we would get
Speaker 5: called up and they'd be like, hey, what do you
Speaker 5: got and we tell him. Then they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 5: good job, let's get this evidence logged in and everything
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 2: But right, it's so much more, it's so much more accepted,
Speaker 2: Like I just had in part because of Marianne's uh,
Speaker 2: thank you for this. By the way, I'd been wanting
Speaker 2: to chat with John Dover of the Navajo Nation for
Speaker 2: for quite a while, and by the time this episode
Speaker 2: comes out, I think it'll be three episodes back I
Speaker 2: had him on and again. Yeah, the difference between you know,
Speaker 2: what you guys were up against is a little different
Speaker 2: than what he was up against because he was charged with,
Speaker 2: you know, being a police officer, but also being a
Speaker 2: police officer that you know, uh, some days you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to investigate the the unknown, but the unknown is
Speaker 2: part of their culture.
Speaker 1: So it's just the other day at the office.
Speaker 5: And John is real good friends with us, both John
Speaker 5: and stan Stan Milford. Yep, we actually talk with them
Speaker 5: a lot. They actually help us out with a lot
Speaker 5: of stuff that happens on the res just helping us
Speaker 5: with information, helping us with like contacts, stuff like that.
Speaker 5: So it's great having them as a sounding board or
Speaker 5: even just a resource. Yeah, we've had a couple of
Speaker 5: things happened that we've been like, like we've been sitting
Speaker 5: in Marianne's living room with John going, hey man, this
Speaker 5: is what we got and he's been like, I can
Speaker 5: tell you exactly what that is, and then we break
Speaker 5: it all down and we talk about it and it's
Speaker 5: an amazing resource. Like it's amazing how many interesting people
Speaker 5: we have come to meet since we've started this, And
Speaker 5: like I said, I'm proud of this. Heck of the
Speaker 5: fact that since we've started this about two years ago,
Speaker 5: we have over eighty stories from first responders all over
Speaker 5: the world who had things happen, who trusted us enough
Speaker 5: to come and talk to us, knowing that we're not
Speaker 5: gonna judge, we're not gonna make fun of, we're not
Speaker 5: going to criticize, and we will only use stories when
Speaker 5: that officer says, yes, I'm okay with you using it.
Speaker 5: We've had officers all across the board. Some have been like,
Speaker 5: I just need to tell you this, but I can't
Speaker 5: get it out. I can't have my name out there,
Speaker 5: I can't let anyone know, and we're like, fine, tell
Speaker 5: us that we're gonna get your help, we're gonna listen
Speaker 5: to the story, give you that place to vent, and
Speaker 5: then it just goes in a box and we never
Speaker 5: use it. We've had other guys that have been like, yeah,
Speaker 5: you can use my face, you can. You need me
Speaker 5: to come on and talk, I'll talk. And we've had
Speaker 5: everything in between. We've been some officers like there's one
Speaker 5: that I know of that recently got promoted to sergeant.
Speaker 5: He gave us a story and he's like, I cannot
Speaker 5: have my face out there. I just got promoted. So
Speaker 5: he's like, I have no problem with you using the story,
Speaker 5: but you can't use my name. So we take it
Speaker 5: even further. We don't use his name, and we don't
Speaker 5: use the agency that he is with. We just refer
Speaker 5: to it as an agency in Arizona, right, because, again,
Speaker 5: our credibility, just like their credibility, is paramount. We want
Speaker 5: we want these first responders to trust us. We want
Speaker 5: people to trust us because we're talking about the truth,
Speaker 5: and that's kind kind of one of the things we
Speaker 5: touch on. I'm sorry I'm talking so much, but I'm
Speaker 5: really kind of passionate about this. Is the most frustrating
Speaker 5: thing about this entire scenario is we're talking about people
Speaker 5: first or firefighters, police officers, corrections, EMTs, park rangers all
Speaker 5: across the board, who are trusted because of, like you said,
Speaker 5: their credibility, their ability to maintain their emotions in high
Speaker 5: stressful situations. They're seeing stuff, they're telling the truth, and
Speaker 5: they're getting in trouble for it. And that's the part
Speaker 5: that is the most frustrating because it's we call it
Speaker 5: in one of our sides, we call it the cost
Speaker 5: of the cost of being truthful?
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, So is it?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: What are Because now you said you're talking about the
Speaker 2: cases that you've collected from other officers, Uh, is there
Speaker 2: one that sticks out that you could talk about now?
Speaker 1: And and kind of because I want to I want
Speaker 1: to hear how how you guys.
Speaker 2: I want to maybe go through how you guys take
Speaker 2: a case from an officer and then what do you
Speaker 2: do with it? If you can, if you can talk
Speaker 2: about it, if it's you.
Speaker 5: Can, we can talk. We got so many stories.
Speaker 4: We we have one the okay, I'm going to tell
Speaker 4: you about the Skinwalker case. Well you have one, and
Speaker 4: then I'm going to have him do about five different
Speaker 4: stories and then an investigation that we did and come
Speaker 4: to find out it was on a reservation.
Speaker 3: Let me talk a little bit about the skin Walker case.
Speaker 4: We had an investigator with our agencies, Gilbert pad and
Speaker 4: this guy is the probably one of the most serious
Speaker 4: guys that I've ever He doesn't joke around.
Speaker 3: He takes everything very very serious.
Speaker 4: So he stopped for me in the hallway one day
Speaker 4: and he says, Hey, I know that you've been with
Speaker 4: Muffon and can I run something by you?
Speaker 3: And I said sure. He says, I was.
Speaker 4: Driving up State Highway eighty nine between Flagstaff and Page.
Speaker 4: Now this roadway, for the folks that don't know Arizona.
Speaker 4: Flagstaff is northern Arizona, and State Route eighty nine goes
Speaker 4: further north to Page, Arizona, which is on the Utah border.
Speaker 4: Now this roadway is on the Navajo reservation. So he says,
Speaker 4: it's about ten o'clock at night. He's driving down State
Speaker 4: eighty nine, State Route eighty nine.
Speaker 3: It's a two lane road. Yellow. It's a yellow line
Speaker 3: right smack dab in the middle. There is picture marts
Speaker 3: the the surface of Mars.
Speaker 4: This is the Yeah, it looks like it is red.
Speaker 4: It has it has rocks everywhere. There are no trees,
Speaker 4: there are no houses, there is nothing, and it is black.
Speaker 4: There's not even a street light. So he's cruising down
Speaker 4: the road, probably going about eighty eighty five miles an hour.
Speaker 3: There's nobody out there.
Speaker 2: Is there like, is there like mountains in the back
Speaker 2: or is it eight planes or.
Speaker 3: I would say five to ten miles.
Speaker 4: Okay, So where he is at it is just small
Speaker 4: rock like you would just picture the the surface of
Speaker 4: Mars that kind of red and boulders and rock. But
Speaker 4: there's no there's mountains way over on the sides where
Speaker 4: the familion cliffs are, and up toward what would that
Speaker 4: be the road that goes up the page. That's all
Speaker 4: mountainous up there. But there are no trees, there are
Speaker 4: no houses, there's no lights. It is pitch black. So
Speaker 4: as he scruised him by all of a sudden, he
Speaker 4: notices out of his provisional vision side vision that way,
Speaker 4: thank you, on his right hand side, that there is
Speaker 4: something that is right there by the road, pretty big,
Speaker 4: and it starts to cross the road in front of them,
Speaker 4: so it's going from the right to the left, right
Speaker 4: in front of him.
Speaker 3: Well, he puts on the.
Speaker 4: Brakes really really fast, and he slows all the way down,
Speaker 4: and this thing, this creature is on all fours now,
Speaker 4: even on all fours, he said, the back of it
Speaker 4: was probably at least four feet tall, and this thing
Speaker 4: is going across the roadway very slowly, right in front
Speaker 4: of him, and all it's stewing is it's looking right
Speaker 4: at his headlights as it's walking across. Now, if there
Speaker 4: was a deer, a coyote, whatever, they would see the
Speaker 4: headlights and.
Speaker 3: They take off. This thing didn't.
Speaker 4: It just took its to I'm walking from the right
Speaker 4: hand side of the car all the way to the left,
Speaker 4: got off to the shoulder and just went and did
Speaker 4: whatever it did. So it freaked him out. He's like,
Speaker 4: what in the world was that? So he started he
Speaker 4: started to go again, but this time he started going
Speaker 4: slow because he wasn't sure kind of that area.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's the up there at the Grand Canyon. But
Speaker 3: he's starting to slow.
Speaker 5: He's cruising up.
Speaker 4: About two miles later, Rare, you go right there, that's
Speaker 4: exactly the area. Right there is the turnoff to Tuba City,
Speaker 4: which is also on an alcohol reservation. Just he's past
Speaker 4: that exit, he notices there's something now sitting in the
Speaker 4: middle of the road. The double yellow there is something
Speaker 4: sitting in the middle, So he again slows way down.
Speaker 3: He's like, what in the world is this thing?
Speaker 4: As he's going past it this thing is now on
Speaker 4: its hind legs and it's just sitting there staring at
Speaker 4: the car. And as the car went by, it sat
Speaker 4: there and it just watched. His head moved with the car,
Speaker 4: and as the car approached, the head stayed right with
Speaker 4: the car. And as the car went by, the head
Speaker 4: of this creature just followed the.
Speaker 3: Car as it went through it went by.
Speaker 4: Now, I asked the investigator, we can use Noah is
Speaker 4: his first name, We can use Noah. But he said,
Speaker 4: this thing, the head of it, when it was just
Speaker 4: on a time leg sitting there, was over five feet
Speaker 4: tall because it was over his car.
Speaker 1: So it's on its hind legs. It's fine.
Speaker 4: It's touched down like it's just sitting on like a
Speaker 4: dog or whatever.
Speaker 1: It behind legs.
Speaker 3: This thing was over the head was over five feet tall.
Speaker 4: It was above his car, sedan car, and all it
Speaker 4: did was just it just kind of watched, never moved,
Speaker 4: never did anything. Well, Noah goes being an investigator, Hey,
Speaker 4: what was that? He wanted to turn around and go
Speaker 4: back and check it.
Speaker 6: Out, because I mean, oh my god, Well, luckily this area,
Speaker 6: both shoulders on the roads are very very soft, and
Speaker 6: he knew ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 4: He goes off the shoulder. He gets stuck. He'll never
Speaker 4: get out until he's he's already freaking out. He goes,
Speaker 4: I'm getting to where there's light and there's people. So
Speaker 4: he kept going. He gets up the page, finds a
Speaker 4: grocery store of a convenience store.
Speaker 5: Goes in.
Speaker 4: The clerk in this convenience store, it's in a Navajo
Speaker 4: woman and she's being just so cheery with everybody.
Speaker 3: You know, Hi, how are you? What's going on? And
Speaker 3: you could just tell she's very, very, very bubbly and outgoing.
Speaker 4: So Noah grabs some drinks and some snacks, puts them
Speaker 4: out on the front on the counter, and.
Speaker 3: She goes, hey, how are you? Where you going? Where
Speaker 3: are you coming from? And he's talking and he goes,
Speaker 3: can I ask.
Speaker 1: You a question?
Speaker 4: She goes sure. He goes, do you have any wolves
Speaker 4: or coyotes out here? And she goes, well, there might
Speaker 4: be a coyote everywhere once, you know, maybe sporadically in some.
Speaker 3: Areas, but there won't be any wolves. We don't have
Speaker 3: the terrain for wolves.
Speaker 1: And she goes, well.
Speaker 4: He proceeds tell her what he saw as he was
Speaker 4: driving down the road and coming up to page, her
Speaker 4: demeanor went from very bubbly, very outgoing, to very serious.
Speaker 3: It just turned just like that. She got very serious.
Speaker 4: She takes her his snacks, put him in a bag,
Speaker 4: shoves the bag into him, and says, you need.
Speaker 3: To leave now.
Speaker 1: She knows what she knows what it is.
Speaker 3: So he's freaking out.
Speaker 4: So he gets up, of course, gets the page, goes
Speaker 4: and does whatever he's going to do.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, he goes, I have no idea what
Speaker 3: that was all about. He goes.
Speaker 4: I know that you probably would know something. So here's
Speaker 4: my story. Here's what's going on now. I asked him,
Speaker 4: because he didn't of course, didn't have any.
Speaker 3: Pictures or anything.
Speaker 4: I says, would you be willing to meet with one
Speaker 4: of my sketch artists and take, you know, and draw
Speaker 4: a picture of what you saw?
Speaker 3: Especially when this thing was sitting in the middle of
Speaker 3: the road. So I go sure. So I had him. Now,
Speaker 3: for folks that don't know a sketch.
Speaker 4: Artist, we use him in police departments like they're going
Speaker 4: to sketch bad guy. They'll give him the features, eyes, nose, height,
Speaker 4: all this stuff, and the sketch chartist will actually draw.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll take they'll take the witnesses testimony and create
Speaker 2: a kind of bring it to life if you will,
Speaker 2: like a like a storyboard exactly.
Speaker 3: So I didn't.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, I don't have that picture with me right now,
Speaker 4: but sketch artist, I do have it.
Speaker 3: I'd have to find it for you.
Speaker 1: But if you could.
Speaker 3: By the time Staires I'll get to that picture.
Speaker 1: Doesn't say you could, I'll mark the spot.
Speaker 5: So we got it.
Speaker 4: So anyway, so he did that. I see the picture now.
Speaker 4: It looks cartoonish, it really does.
Speaker 5: It is.
Speaker 4: It is long, it has a wolf type face, it
Speaker 4: is elongated in its jaw, it had the big teeth
Speaker 4: and the eyes were just wild, and it's sitting on
Speaker 4: it on its hind legs.
Speaker 3: So this is what he he this is what he saw.
Speaker 4: And again, you know, I wasn't gonna laugh at him,
Speaker 4: because this is one guy that does not joke around.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: I did talk to John Dover stan Mill for Junior,
Speaker 4: of course, like we were just talking about the Novajo
Speaker 4: rangers and I told him this story and I told
Speaker 4: him how what how the Navajo woman clerk reacted to
Speaker 4: the story, And he goes, yeah, Noah saw a skin
Speaker 4: walker and he you know, when he told the story
Speaker 4: to the clerk, she was afraid that that attachment of
Speaker 4: this skin walker, whatever it is, on Noah, would attach
Speaker 4: to her and she didn't want anything to do with it.
Speaker 4: That's why she got serious. She handed him his groceries
Speaker 4: and told him to get out of the store. And
Speaker 4: so that was really an interesting one. That's one of
Speaker 4: our first skinwalker cases that we got from an officer.
Speaker 1: To be continued
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