UAP PD Part 2 (The Call Is Coming from The Sky)

0:00 Speaker 1: Hmmmmm.

0:36 Speaker 2: Do you, as a law enforcement officer, as a trained professional,

0:42 Speaker 2: do you believe there is such thing as a transformation,

0:48 Speaker 2: transforming shapeshifting, which that can turn into an animal? And

1:00 Speaker 2: I mean, do you believe that's in walks exist? You

1:07 Speaker 2: don't have to say yes or you don't want to. Yeah,

1:10 Speaker 2: So that's again community answer.

1:13 Speaker 3: I believe there's anything that can be out there. Anything

1:17 Speaker 3: could be out I.

1:18 Speaker 2: Listen and yeah, you don't have to put your eggs

1:20 Speaker 2: in one basket.

1:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's all kinds of stuff. We are

1:25 Speaker 3: not alone in this universe. We are not alone at

1:27 Speaker 3: all and anything. And you know, I listened to John

1:31 Speaker 3: and Stan and what they teach me of what's going

1:34 Speaker 3: on up in all of the uh Native reservations that

1:38 Speaker 3: there there are evil. There's evil in you know, our

1:45 Speaker 3: cultures that maybe they don't turn, you know, in animals,

1:51 Speaker 3: but there are evil and that.

1:53 Speaker 2: Is just one And I don't think it's I don't

1:56 Speaker 2: think it's super crazy to think that in a world

1:59 Speaker 2: where uh huh, you know.

2:09 Speaker 4: You've froze there for a second, we heard in a

2:12 Speaker 4: world and then it froze.

2:14 Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, we can hear you now,

2:16 Speaker 2: Oh that's weird. Maybe a little network interruption to me,

2:21 Speaker 2: Uh that.

2:22 Speaker 3: Wanted us to talk about these things.

2:24 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, or we're getting hacked because I'm hardwired.

2:30 Speaker 2: But in a world where we're hurtling through space on

2:33 Speaker 2: a rock and you know, it's just the fact that

2:39 Speaker 2: we're having a conversation about this right now, is is

2:44 Speaker 2: is such a miracle right, like such the fact that

2:48 Speaker 2: this all exists, right, that matter all came together like

2:51 Speaker 2: this and this magic that we that we call reality. Uh,

2:57 Speaker 2: I've just learned to stop, uh making it black and

3:01 Speaker 2: white and allowing for you know, a little gray. And

3:05 Speaker 2: I think, like it's crazy to think about. You know,

3:08 Speaker 2: some people who won't believe in a god or uh

3:12 Speaker 2: some sort of creator, right, and they're they'll they'll go

3:15 Speaker 2: to church and they'll pray to angels and they're afraid

3:18 Speaker 2: of demons. And you know why, while they are while

3:24 Speaker 2: they are in the same breath saying that UFOs and

3:28 Speaker 2: aliens don't exist or we shouldn't engage with it, you

3:34 Speaker 2: know that they're they're saying angels and demons do exist.

3:38 Speaker 2: And by by definition, angels and demons and God if

3:43 Speaker 2: you want to say it is by definition a non

3:46 Speaker 2: human intelligence. So like in this world, I think that

3:54 Speaker 2: we should be like skin walk like evil is definitely real,

3:59 Speaker 2: It's tangible. Sometimes. I'm sure as investigators of things U

4:04 Speaker 2: as police officers, that you guys have walked into a

4:08 Speaker 2: crime or walked onto a crime scene or uh you

4:12 Speaker 2: know a what would be a crime scene uh by

4:16 Speaker 2: the time, you know whatever, and felt evil, like tangible evil.

4:22 Speaker 2: And to say that that it doesn't exist and that

4:24 Speaker 2: it doesn't attract and it you know, it's not there,

4:29 Speaker 2: that that's just being foolish.

4:32 Speaker 4: Okay, I've got.

4:35 Speaker 2: Becuse just just just humans in general can are are

4:39 Speaker 2: so like I think there are people out there that

4:43 Speaker 2: are have sold whatever it is there that that we

4:46 Speaker 2: call a soul. I think they've sold it. And I'm

4:50 Speaker 2: looking at you peer teel right, I'm looking at you

4:53 Speaker 2: Peter specifically, and and people like you because it like

5:00 Speaker 2: you just look at these people and you're like what

5:02 Speaker 2: is going on? Like what are you? And I'm sure

5:07 Speaker 2: you've been in rooms where maybe even interrogation rooms, where

5:12 Speaker 2: you know that you're sitting across from evil and when

5:17 Speaker 2: you come in that room that the life, the energy

5:21 Speaker 2: like they are energy vampires. But there's also the opposite,

5:25 Speaker 2: there's someone who just their presence brings a room up.

5:29 Speaker 2: So good and evil are definitely tangible.

5:35 Speaker 4: So so strapping because I have a bunch of things

5:38 Speaker 4: I want to say right now. First of all, I

5:40 Speaker 4: will tell you with evil exists?

5:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, I went on all right, I said, I I

5:48 Speaker 2: went off on a tangent. I'm sorry about That's okay.

5:51 Speaker 4: I have sat in the interrogation room and I have

5:54 Speaker 4: interrogated terrible, terrible people. I have had physical reactions where

5:59 Speaker 4: after I was done with the interview and the interrogation,

6:03 Speaker 4: I have literally gone into the next room and thrown up.

6:06 Speaker 4: It was that helpable that you could feel the lack

6:10 Speaker 4: of remorse, the callousness, what you would call evil. That

6:16 Speaker 4: was just it seemed almost otherworldly. And I have done

6:21 Speaker 4: interviews like that with murder suspects, with child abused, child

6:25 Speaker 4: molested suspects. So when you say do I think evil exists,

6:33 Speaker 4: there's not a doubt in my mind. You asked, do

6:37 Speaker 4: I think that something can change from one form to another?

6:41 Speaker 4: Let me ask you this. You ever see a caterpillar

6:43 Speaker 4: and a butterfly boy? They won't They're the same thing,

6:47 Speaker 4: but they're not. They went through a change. So if

6:52 Speaker 4: you say that it's impossible for something to change from

6:54 Speaker 4: one form to another, it happens.

6:58 Speaker 2: Happened, really a really good one.

7:01 Speaker 4: Now going into your Bible story. In the Bible, I'll

7:06 Speaker 4: be the first to event I am a Christian. I

7:08 Speaker 4: believe in Jesus, I believe in God, I believe in angels.

7:11 Speaker 4: I believe in demonic possession because I've seen things. I

7:15 Speaker 4: believe in ghosts. I also believe that. The Bible makes

7:19 Speaker 4: reference to things called behemoths and juggernuts, which are creatures

7:23 Speaker 4: that we don't understand, which could be things that are

7:27 Speaker 4: on this planet that we don't understand, lockness, monster, bigfoot,

7:32 Speaker 4: things like that. It never goes into to explain what

7:36 Speaker 4: those things are. It just makes reference to the fact

7:38 Speaker 4: that there are things on this planet.

7:39 Speaker 2: We don't It's and sorry to interject here, but discussion wise,

7:45 Speaker 2: it's kind of funny because the Bible talks about these

7:48 Speaker 2: things almost as if it's assuming the reader knows exactly

7:53 Speaker 2: what this is, because it doesn't give any explanation or

7:56 Speaker 2: exposition about what it is, so it's almost like who

8:00 Speaker 2: you know. The Bible whoever wrote it. It's like they're

8:05 Speaker 2: assuming that you're going to know exactly what this is.

8:07 Speaker 2: And that makes me think, like what if we've like

8:11 Speaker 2: are we just talking about the same thing with different

8:14 Speaker 2: names aliens and demons and fairies and you know, and

8:19 Speaker 2: then there's yeah, let.

8:21 Speaker 4: Me blow your mind once more. So now we've covered ghosts,

8:24 Speaker 4: we've covered demonic possession. They're all in the Bible. We

8:26 Speaker 4: have stories of Jesus casting demons out of people, we

8:29 Speaker 4: have stories of ghosts, we have stories of strange creatures

8:31 Speaker 4: that we don't know what they are. So the last

8:33 Speaker 4: thing that, the last hurdle we want to cover is

8:36 Speaker 4: alien life. Right does it not say at the beginning

8:40 Speaker 4: of the Bible in Genesis God created the heavens and

8:43 Speaker 4: the earth. He does not say it does not say

8:47 Speaker 4: anywhere in there what the heavens means. And so I

8:51 Speaker 4: get people that come up to me and say, well,

8:52 Speaker 4: that doesn't mean alien light. Why is there nothing about

8:55 Speaker 4: alien life in the Bible? And to that I respond with,

8:58 Speaker 4: when you buy a geasher, do you get a manual

9:01 Speaker 4: for the ge refrigerator?

9:03 Speaker 2: No?

9:04 Speaker 4: No, The Bible has always been referred to as the

9:08 Speaker 4: manual that Christians use for life here on Earth. Why

9:14 Speaker 4: would we have stories and lessons for a different planet

9:19 Speaker 4: in the book about us being here on Earth when

9:21 Speaker 4: we can't get really, we can't get people past the

9:25 Speaker 4: moon yet. No, I mean, we can get robots and

9:28 Speaker 4: probes and stuff out to Mars and out and beyond.

9:31 Speaker 4: But we live in a universe where we cannot perceive

9:34 Speaker 4: the end of it. Why would we be entitled by

9:38 Speaker 4: God if we really believe in God to have that information?

9:41 Speaker 4: Yet maybe we're not proposed to. So that's what I

9:47 Speaker 4: feel about religion and stuff, because I truly do believe

9:49 Speaker 4: in God. I believe that it's all. I just think

9:51 Speaker 4: God made all of it because it says He made everything.

9:56 Speaker 4: So now I forgot he had so many questions. I

10:00 Speaker 4: forgot where I was.

10:02 Speaker 2: Well, you did, you did answer. You did answer. So

10:07 Speaker 2: the that you do think that a skinwalker could exist

10:10 Speaker 2: and that evil is tangible.

10:11 Speaker 4: I haven't even told you why I think skinwalkers exist yet.

10:18 Speaker 4: Do you want to hear that story?

10:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go.

10:21 Speaker 4: Okay, let's go as long as you're willing to hold on.

10:26 Speaker 4: This is a little convoluted story. And when I tell

10:28 Speaker 4: you at the end you're going to be like bold,

10:30 Speaker 4: but it's God's honest truth, and we have lots of witnesses.

10:35 Speaker 2: Like I said, okay, so.

10:39 Speaker 4: During the course of our gathering of stories, we usually

10:43 Speaker 4: get like a story and event happened at a location,

10:47 Speaker 4: and then you're like, oh, okay, so this event happened

10:49 Speaker 4: at this location. There are very few places on the

10:53 Speaker 4: planet where you can have one location, but it has

10:58 Speaker 4: a variety of different actstivity at it, like ranging all

11:01 Speaker 4: across the board. Places that jump into mind are like

11:04 Speaker 4: Skinwalker Ranch, where they have paranormal they have skinwalkers, they

11:08 Speaker 4: have alien life forms, they have all these different things

11:12 Speaker 4: that are happening at that one location. So we're gathering

11:18 Speaker 4: stories from different different officers and we end up finding

11:22 Speaker 4: a location on a on one of the reservations right

11:26 Speaker 4: out here where we end up having is it five

11:30 Speaker 4: officers now, I think we're up to five different officers

11:34 Speaker 4: that all had experiences at this location. And these experiences

11:40 Speaker 4: are all over the board. So the first one is

11:44 Speaker 4: in their post academy. We had an officer that told us, oh, yeah,

11:48 Speaker 4: we're trained in our post academy that when we drive

11:53 Speaker 4: down the dirt road past this mission. This church that's

11:56 Speaker 4: out in the middle of nowhere. It's on a dirt road.

12:00 Speaker 4: You drive past this mission and it's after dark. You

12:03 Speaker 4: are supposed to reach up and flip the rear view

12:05 Speaker 4: mirror up so you can't see in the back seat.

12:09 Speaker 4: And I'm looking at him. I'm like why, and he's like,

12:11 Speaker 4: because if you don't and you look in the back

12:14 Speaker 4: window or in the mirror into the back seat, if

12:17 Speaker 4: you see two glowing red eyes in the back seat,

12:21 Speaker 4: you have to immediately contact your supervisor, go to the

12:26 Speaker 4: station where they will arrange for a shaman to come

12:31 Speaker 4: and sever the attachment that just happened to you. This

12:35 Speaker 4: is a police agency instructing their officers to do this.

12:40 Speaker 4: And I tell that story to people and people don't

12:42 Speaker 4: get it. You don't understand how that is huge. That

12:46 Speaker 4: is an absolutely huge thing, not just because of the

12:48 Speaker 4: creepy eyes in the back seat, but the fact that

12:50 Speaker 4: the agency has this the.

12:52 Speaker 2: Standard operating procedure around it is what's yes.

12:57 Speaker 4: So after we get that story, we get a story

13:00 Speaker 4: about a officer who was driving past this mission. He

13:06 Speaker 4: had another officer behind him. Now, if you go down

13:08 Speaker 4: the dirt road past the mission, there's acting an area

13:11 Speaker 4: where they go shooting and where they practice all their

13:13 Speaker 4: firearms training. Way down the road. So they're driving back,

13:17 Speaker 4: it's after dark. This officer has a ride along in

13:20 Speaker 4: his seat next to him. It's now his wife. At

13:23 Speaker 4: the time, they were just dating. They're driving down the

13:25 Speaker 4: dirt road and they're moving okay, it's like thirty is

13:28 Speaker 4: it's a dirt road. It's you know, they're going twenty

13:30 Speaker 4: five thirty miles an hour. And she looks at she's

13:32 Speaker 4: talking to him, looking at him, and she looks out

13:35 Speaker 4: the driver's side window, and she's like, what the heck

13:37 Speaker 4: is that? And he looks over and the way he

13:40 Speaker 4: described it is, he's like, it was this giant creature

13:45 Speaker 4: that was very similar in description to the one that

13:48 Speaker 4: Noah gave us, large, almost canine type creature, kind of formed,

13:54 Speaker 4: weird like male formed and stuff like that, and it's

13:56 Speaker 4: keeping pace with the vehicle. Now, there are no wols

14:00 Speaker 4: in this part of Arizona. There's coyotes, but these coyotes

14:03 Speaker 4: you're getting two and a half maybe three feet tall.

14:05 Speaker 4: A three foot tall coyote is big. This thing was

14:09 Speaker 4: like closer to four almost five feet though, and it's

14:12 Speaker 4: running keeping pace with them in the vehicle. As they

14:16 Speaker 4: get to the mission, it runs in front of them,

14:20 Speaker 4: cuts in front of the vehicle, and runs back towards

14:23 Speaker 4: the mission. This guy he sees, he's like, I don't

14:26 Speaker 4: know what that is. We're getting out of here now.

14:28 Speaker 4: Remember I said he had a police another car behind

14:30 Speaker 4: him with another officer in it. That officer takes off

14:33 Speaker 4: after him. They go down this dirt road all the

14:36 Speaker 4: way to this paved road. They make a left, they

14:37 Speaker 4: go down and then there's a chevron and they pull

14:40 Speaker 4: into the chevron and he gets out of the car

14:43 Speaker 4: and the other officer gets out of the car and

14:45 Speaker 4: he's like, did you see that thing that ran past.

14:47 Speaker 4: He's like, yeah, I saw it ran right in front

14:49 Speaker 4: of us. And they're both like, we don't know what

14:52 Speaker 4: is that. I don't know what it was. And the

14:54 Speaker 4: thing that was interesting is the officer in the second car,

14:58 Speaker 4: he says, as it was towards the mission, this mission,

15:02 Speaker 4: like I said, it's the middle of nowhere. There's probably

15:04 Speaker 4: it's probably a mile to the closest house, and even

15:07 Speaker 4: maybe even more to the closest house. There is one

15:11 Speaker 4: light that is behind this mission. So The mission basically

15:14 Speaker 4: has the church building, this annex building, and then this

15:17 Speaker 4: like little patio covered area and there's a light right there.

15:20 Speaker 4: And that light it's like they tell they describe it

15:22 Speaker 4: as it snaps on and it snaps off. If it

15:25 Speaker 4: turns on, it's poof, it's on. When it turns off,

15:28 Speaker 4: it's poof, it's off. Right. The other officer that was

15:31 Speaker 4: following him is like, as it was running towards the mission,

15:36 Speaker 4: the light didn't snap off. It faded and got dimmer

15:39 Speaker 4: and dimmer as this thing got close to it, and

15:42 Speaker 4: when it got to it, it shut off. He's like,

15:46 Speaker 4: I never saw where it went past the annex building.

15:50 Speaker 4: So we're like, okay, two stories at this mission. Interesting.

15:53 Speaker 4: So then we get another officer who comes up and says, hey,

15:57 Speaker 4: I was at this mission and we're like that mission

16:00 Speaker 4: and he's like yeah, and he's backed in because the

16:03 Speaker 4: entire mission, it's it's still an active church. On Sundays

16:07 Speaker 4: they have services there. So the entire mission is surrounded

16:11 Speaker 4: by a chain link fence so that people don't get

16:13 Speaker 4: on there during you know, Monday through Saturday when there's

16:16 Speaker 4: nobody there. So the thing that they like is it's

16:19 Speaker 4: a great place to back your patrol car up when

16:22 Speaker 4: you're writing reports. So you'll back your patrol car because

16:24 Speaker 4: you know nobody's gonna come up from behind you because

16:27 Speaker 4: you got this big fence there. So this other officer

16:30 Speaker 4: is backed up there and he's working on a report,

16:32 Speaker 4: and all of a sudden he feels something shake his

16:36 Speaker 4: patrol car, like just a little kind of nudge that

16:39 Speaker 4: he feels it. He's like, was that really something? Is

16:42 Speaker 4: it my imagine?

16:42 Speaker 2: I don't know?

16:43 Speaker 4: So he turns the lights all on, the takedowns the

16:46 Speaker 4: side alley lights, stuff like that. When you turn all

16:49 Speaker 4: the lights on on a police car, you get a

16:50 Speaker 4: lot of light around that car. And he's looking out

16:53 Speaker 4: the windows. He's looking around, he can't he doesn't see anything.

16:56 Speaker 4: He's like, okay, this is weird. So he turns all

16:58 Speaker 4: over the lights off. Thinks it's his imagination, goes back

17:01 Speaker 4: to typing, and then something violently pushes the side of

17:05 Speaker 4: the car. He literally feels the entire car shape. He

17:08 Speaker 4: turns on the lights. He doesn't see anything, knows the

17:10 Speaker 4: stories of this mission, so he puts it in drive.

17:13 Speaker 4: He takes off beats feet to the chevron. Because when

17:16 Speaker 4: things get dicey, you go to the chevron. So he

17:19 Speaker 4: gets to the chevron. Now he's been driving down this

17:21 Speaker 4: dirt road, so all this dirt is kicking up and everything.

17:25 Speaker 4: He gets to the chevron, gets out of the car.

17:27 Speaker 4: He's taking a breather. He walks around to the rear

17:29 Speaker 4: passenger side of the car, and he tells us he

17:33 Speaker 4: sees in the dust on the window a human hand

17:39 Speaker 4: that is miniaturized, like a small human hand, looks almost

17:43 Speaker 4: like a child's hand, like a tiny hand. So this

17:47 Speaker 4: is the point where he proceeds to tell us about

17:49 Speaker 4: a little thing called the Little People. I don't know

17:52 Speaker 4: if your listeners have ever heard of the Little people,

17:55 Speaker 4: but in Native American beliefs, they are a race of

18:00 Speaker 4: terranean creatures that look like miniature humans. They look just

18:04 Speaker 4: exactly like a human, but they dress in rags and

18:07 Speaker 4: tattered stuff, and they're small. They're like two feet tall,

18:10 Speaker 4: maybe three feet tall, and they are known to be

18:14 Speaker 4: almost like pranksters or tricksters. They remind me a lot

18:17 Speaker 4: of like puck wedgies and stuff like that up in

18:19 Speaker 4: the Northeast, where they will start by making like almost

18:24 Speaker 4: like trickery, tricking things kind of like tripping people up,

18:28 Speaker 4: and they get more and more violent with what they're

18:30 Speaker 4: doing until they ultimately cause somebody to get seriously hurt

18:33 Speaker 4: or killed. And so he sees this little handprint, and

18:37 Speaker 4: he remembers that there is a legend in the tribe

18:41 Speaker 4: that there is an area right by that mission where

18:44 Speaker 4: the little people have access to the surface world, and

18:49 Speaker 4: so he's like, I don't know what this is. All

18:50 Speaker 4: I know is that there was a handprint there. And

18:52 Speaker 4: I don't know where that handprint came from because it

18:54 Speaker 4: was in the dust, but the dust wasn't stuck to it,

18:57 Speaker 4: so it had to be new. So that's third story

19:00 Speaker 4: at the mission. And then remember that one because one

19:04 Speaker 4: of the stories, the newest ones we got is going

19:06 Speaker 4: to tie into that one, the fourth story that we

19:10 Speaker 4: got at this mission. There's another officer. When you are

19:13 Speaker 4: driving down this dirt road towards this mission, the annex

19:16 Speaker 4: building is the first thing you see in the headlights.

19:19 Speaker 4: So they round this the road kind of bends away,

19:22 Speaker 4: and so your headlights light up the front of this

19:24 Speaker 4: annex building. This annex building is pretty small. It's got

19:28 Speaker 4: a door on the double door on the front door

19:30 Speaker 4: on the back there's really nothing inside of it but

19:32 Speaker 4: a main room and I think like a rest of

19:34 Speaker 4: bathrooms in the back. As they're rounding the corner, their

19:38 Speaker 4: headlights light up the front and they see that the

19:40 Speaker 4: front doors are kicked in, and so the being officers,

19:43 Speaker 4: they stop and they're like, well, we got to go

19:45 Speaker 4: check if somebody broke into this building, but the gate

19:48 Speaker 4: is locked. So they hop the fence like we've all

19:51 Speaker 4: had to do numerous times in the past, and they

19:55 Speaker 4: go up the stairs in the three light steps up

19:58 Speaker 4: into the annex building and they do what they will

20:00 Speaker 4: call clear the building. They check it. There's nobody inside

20:03 Speaker 4: this building. So now they walk back to the front

20:06 Speaker 4: and they're looking at the front door and they're like, well,

20:08 Speaker 4: we got to secure the building, but since it was

20:11 Speaker 4: kicked open, we can't lock the building. And so they

20:14 Speaker 4: look down and on the ground next to the stairs

20:17 Speaker 4: are three cinder blocks, and so they're like, okay, well

20:20 Speaker 4: we can bring these cinder blocks inside, push the door shut,

20:23 Speaker 4: stack the cinder blocks inside the door, so it we'll

20:26 Speaker 4: create the illusion that the door is shut. We've already

20:29 Speaker 4: checked the back door. The back door works. We can

20:30 Speaker 4: go out the back door. They we'll go around. We'll

20:32 Speaker 4: call the people that own the building and make sure

20:35 Speaker 4: that they're aware that and say, hey, it's secured on

20:38 Speaker 4: a parent it's not really secured. So they're like, okay, yeah,

20:41 Speaker 4: let's do that. So they bring the three bricks inside,

20:44 Speaker 4: they push the door shut, they stack the bricks up,

20:47 Speaker 4: they walk out the back, and they walk around to

20:49 Speaker 4: the front. Now, from the time that they stack up

20:52 Speaker 4: the bricks, walk out the back door, and walk back

20:55 Speaker 4: to the front. Because of the size of the building,

20:57 Speaker 4: you're talking a grand total of about ten seconds. It

21:01 Speaker 4: is not a big building. Okay, So they walk out

21:04 Speaker 4: the back door ten seconds later, they're now at the

21:07 Speaker 4: front to go back to top the fence to get

21:09 Speaker 4: to their patrol car. When they get to the front door,

21:12 Speaker 4: the front doors are standing wide open, and those three

21:15 Speaker 4: cinderblocks are eight to ten feet out in the dirt.

21:19 Speaker 4: And they stop and they look at it and they're like,

21:21 Speaker 4: they're looking around. There's no way somebody could have gotten in.

21:26 Speaker 4: They would have had to because they weren't. There's nobody

21:28 Speaker 4: inside the building. They were in the building. Somebody would

21:31 Speaker 4: have had to have come up, pushed open the doors,

21:33 Speaker 4: knocked the bricks off, grabbed the bricks, throw them out

21:37 Speaker 4: into the dirt, ran back down, popped over the fence,

21:40 Speaker 4: and got out of site in ten seconds. While two

21:43 Speaker 4: officers trained inspector investigators are walking around. Wouldn't hear the

21:47 Speaker 4: doors getting pushed open? See anybody climbing over the fence,

21:51 Speaker 4: hear anybody throwing these cinder box nothing?

21:54 Speaker 2: Yeah?

21:55 Speaker 4: Right, So the two doctors look at each other and

21:58 Speaker 4: they're like, what do you want to do? The train

22:00 Speaker 4: because it was an officer and his training officer, He's like,

22:02 Speaker 4: we're out, let's go say hot defence. They took off.

22:06 Speaker 4: So here's story number five. I'm not gonna mention any names,

22:15 Speaker 4: but Marian decided that since we have so many stories

22:20 Speaker 4: at this location, I think a brilliant idea would be

22:23 Speaker 4: for us to go out there and do an investigation.

22:26 Speaker 2: Why not? Why not?

22:28 Speaker 4: Why not? We got stories exactly? This is all good.

22:34 Speaker 4: We're trained investigators, we're good. So we have well, technically,

22:38 Speaker 4: we have three other people that are involved in our group,

22:40 Speaker 4: James Keenan and then two other husband and wife combination,

22:44 Speaker 4: Jesse and Gwen gwen Is. I don't know how else

22:50 Speaker 4: to describe it other than she knows stuff like she

22:52 Speaker 4: just knows.

22:53 Speaker 2: Stuff like intuitive or or is she smart?

22:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, she's like an intuitive medium.

23:00 Speaker 2: Type of Okay, thank got it.

23:02 Speaker 4: And again when I first met her, kind of skeptical.

23:05 Speaker 4: I've known her now for years and I just can't

23:06 Speaker 4: explain how she knows this stuff. But she's pretty spot

23:10 Speaker 4: on accurate.

23:11 Speaker 2: So some people are just like it's almost like they

23:14 Speaker 2: operate on a different like frequency and they see beyond

23:18 Speaker 2: the veil or whatever it is.

23:21 Speaker 4: So the two of us, Jesse and Gwen decide we're

23:24 Speaker 4: going to go out to the mission and check it out.

23:27 Speaker 4: So of course if we're going to check it out,

23:28 Speaker 4: we can't check it out during the daytime alone. We

23:30 Speaker 4: want to see it after dark because that's where all

23:32 Speaker 4: the scary stuff's happening.

23:33 Speaker 2: Could I ask a question real quick before you begin this,

23:37 Speaker 2: Now do you go? I would assume at least that

23:42 Speaker 2: are you going to the local police department and saying, hey, guys,

23:47 Speaker 2: we're here. We're gonna go down to this place that

23:51 Speaker 2: we've been getting reports from, Like how does that work?

23:54 Speaker 2: Did you communicate with the officers at all?

23:57 Speaker 4: You always want to get permsson because these are locations that,

24:03 Speaker 4: especially when you're on the reservation, that's trespassing, so you

24:07 Speaker 4: have to let people know you know who you are,

24:10 Speaker 4: what you're doing, stuff like that. So you always want

24:13 Speaker 4: to make sure that you get all of your things

24:15 Speaker 4: in order before you go out there. So we end

24:18 Speaker 4: up going out there, and when we first get there,

24:21 Speaker 4: it's daylight, and Jesse and I will kind of do

24:25 Speaker 4: like a walk around where Marianne and Gwen are staying

24:27 Speaker 4: at the front kind of the Gwen's trying to get

24:30 Speaker 4: a feel Marian's got some cameras and stuff. Jesse and

24:33 Speaker 4: I go for a little bit of a walk. There's

24:36 Speaker 4: a dry river creek bed that runs next to it

24:39 Speaker 4: that you can drop down into and walk around that

24:42 Speaker 4: has some pretty high cliffs that we can't get up to,

24:44 Speaker 4: but we walk around it. And when I come back

24:46 Speaker 4: to the front, I look at Gwen and I go, well,

24:49 Speaker 4: there's a lot of activity here, and she gets all excited. Oh,

24:51 Speaker 4: there's a lot of activity, and I'm like, time out

24:54 Speaker 4: high speed what I mean when there's like a fire

24:57 Speaker 4: pit in the back, there's broken beer bottles, there's quad tracks,

25:00 Speaker 4: there's a lot of activity that makes me think that

25:02 Speaker 4: there's like high school age kids that are out here

25:04 Speaker 4: party and when when it's Friday night and Saturday night,

25:06 Speaker 4: stuff like that. So we kind of walk around try

25:10 Speaker 4: to get a feel for it. Gwen has some unusual

25:14 Speaker 4: feelings about this well that's in the front. She gets

25:17 Speaker 4: some feelings about the buildings itself. But for the most part,

25:20 Speaker 4: we sit there and we're just like kind of trying

25:22 Speaker 4: to stay quiet, just kind of trying to watch see

25:24 Speaker 4: what's going on, see if we see anything or hear anything.

25:28 Speaker 4: We don't see anything or hear anything. So now it's

25:30 Speaker 4: getting dark. We've been out there for a couple of hours,

25:33 Speaker 4: and we're at the point now where we're like, you know,

25:36 Speaker 4: I don't know if anything's gonna happen, we may as

25:39 Speaker 4: well take off. So I have a pickup truck. We're

25:42 Speaker 4: all going to pile into the pickup truck. We had

25:44 Speaker 4: a cooler full of drinks and stuff like that for

25:46 Speaker 4: while we were sitting there, water, gatory and stuff like that.

25:50 Speaker 4: So I take the cooler and I put it in

25:52 Speaker 4: the back of my truck and I slam the tailgate shut.

25:56 Speaker 4: And the moment that I slam the tailgate shot. The

25:58 Speaker 4: only thing that I can say is it felt like

26:01 Speaker 4: a bolt of electricity shot up my back and I

26:06 Speaker 4: was like, like, the only thing I can think is

26:08 Speaker 4: you need to turn around. And I have never, like

26:12 Speaker 4: I've had hunches. Twenty five years as a cop, you

26:15 Speaker 4: get hunches. This was like a hunch on another level.

26:18 Speaker 4: I've never felt something that strong, be like, you need

26:22 Speaker 4: to turn around, right, it's been around. And I look

26:26 Speaker 4: past the mission by the annex and I see something

26:31 Speaker 4: walk out from behind this annex and I have never

26:35 Speaker 4: seen anything like that in my life. It was probably

26:39 Speaker 4: about six and a half to seven feet tall. It

26:42 Speaker 4: had shaggy hair on its head, but it did not

26:45 Speaker 4: have hair on its body. It had like rags on it.

26:51 Speaker 4: And the way that I described it, I would describe

26:53 Speaker 4: it as it was this weird shade of tan that

26:58 Speaker 4: almost exactly actually the desert behind it, So if it

27:02 Speaker 4: was daylight, it would be like camouflaged to the background.

27:08 Speaker 4: And I see this thing and I'm like, what the heck?

27:13 Speaker 4: And Gwen is standing right next to me and goes

27:16 Speaker 4: what the heck? And I'm like, are you seeing this?

27:19 Speaker 4: And she's like, yes, what is that? And I'm like

27:21 Speaker 4: I don't know. Now here's the weird part. I've got

27:25 Speaker 4: Marianne on this side of me, and Jesse is on

27:27 Speaker 4: the other side of Gwen. Neither of them could see

27:30 Speaker 4: the thing that Gwen and I were looking at, and

27:33 Speaker 4: I'm like, what the heck? And this thing moves to

27:37 Speaker 4: the middle of the dirt road that runs past it,

27:40 Speaker 4: and then it kind of starts rocking back and forth,

27:43 Speaker 4: like facing us, but kind of going like this, and

27:46 Speaker 4: I'm like, this is kind of weird. And then all

27:49 Speaker 4: of a sudden, a second thing comes running out from

27:53 Speaker 4: behind and it's on all fours and it looked like

27:58 Speaker 4: the only way I could describe it is that black

28:01 Speaker 4: on black. It looked like a living shadow almost, and

28:05 Speaker 4: it came crawling out and it moved weird. It charged

28:10 Speaker 4: forward to us, towards us about maybe five or six steps.

28:15 Speaker 4: It was enough that I literally swept my coat away

28:18 Speaker 4: and grabbed it my handgun. So I was about to

28:21 Speaker 4: draw down on this thing. And as soon as I

28:23 Speaker 4: did that, it stopped, and I looked at I looked

28:27 Speaker 4: back at the truck, and I looked back and they

28:28 Speaker 4: were gone, like that quick gone. So I look at

28:33 Speaker 4: Gwenn and I'm like, did you see that. She's like yeah,

28:36 Speaker 4: and We're like, we need to go, and she's like yeah.

28:41 Speaker 4: So everybody loads up in the truck and we take off. So,

28:45 Speaker 4: of course we beat feet to the Chevron because when

28:49 Speaker 4: things get dicey, you go to the Chevron.

28:51 Speaker 2: Yeah.

28:53 Speaker 4: Now I understand why every officer told me when you

28:55 Speaker 4: see something weird, you drive to the chevron because it's

28:58 Speaker 4: about two miles way, but it is the only thing

29:02 Speaker 4: that is open with light anywhere near there. And so

29:06 Speaker 4: now I understand why everybody runs to the chevron when

29:09 Speaker 4: they see something there. Right, So we get to the Chevron.

29:12 Speaker 4: Now here's the interesting stuff. We teach a class about

29:16 Speaker 4: all these stigmas that law enforcement face, and one of

29:20 Speaker 4: them is what we call the believability factor, and that's

29:23 Speaker 4: based off the fact that everybody has certain beliefs and

29:26 Speaker 4: things that they believe, what they think is real, what

29:29 Speaker 4: they think is not real, and when you see something

29:32 Speaker 4: that you can't grasp, you start to kind of fall

29:36 Speaker 4: back into this, well, it's just too unbelievable. I can't

29:38 Speaker 4: believe that it happened. That's ridiculous. So we drive two

29:42 Speaker 4: miles down the road to the Chevron, and by the

29:44 Speaker 4: time we get to the Chevron, I have pretty much

29:47 Speaker 4: convinced myself that I didn't see anything and it was

29:49 Speaker 4: all in my head.

29:51 Speaker 2: Now.

29:51 Speaker 4: The problem was is when I looked at Gwen, She's like,

29:56 Speaker 4: but I saw it too, and I'm like, okay. So then,

30:02 Speaker 4: continuing on with the story, we grab some drinks, we

30:07 Speaker 4: load back up in the truck, and now we're going

30:08 Speaker 4: to drive back towards our side of town. We decide

30:10 Speaker 4: we're going to go get something to eat, so we

30:11 Speaker 4: go to a restaurant and I won't mention the name,

30:14 Speaker 4: even though I love the restaurant, but we don't want

30:16 Speaker 4: to get trademark issues here. We're sitting there and by

30:20 Speaker 4: the time we get to the restaurant, I have once

30:23 Speaker 4: again convinced myself that I didn't see anything, and this

30:25 Speaker 4: is ridiculous. It was a trick of the light or something.

30:29 Speaker 4: I don't know what it is. Gwen keeps saying, well,

30:32 Speaker 4: I saw something. I don't know what it is. The

30:35 Speaker 4: entire time we're having this conversation, somebody not mentioning any names.

30:38 Speaker 4: Marianne is playing around with something and I can't see

30:41 Speaker 4: what it is. And after I'm talking to Gwen, I'm like,

30:45 Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe we saw something. Maybe it wasn't.

30:47 Speaker 4: Maybe it's a trick of the light. Maybe it was

30:49 Speaker 4: I don't know. And that's when Marianne hands me a

30:52 Speaker 4: video camera she was recording, and she's like, what do

30:59 Speaker 4: you use see here? And I look on the video

31:04 Speaker 4: and I don't know what it is, but it it

31:07 Speaker 4: didn't look exactly like what I saw, but it looked

31:10 Speaker 4: like the only way you can describe it is in

31:12 Speaker 4: the movie Predator when the predator is moving and you

31:16 Speaker 4: know how it's invisible and it's you can see a

31:19 Speaker 4: silhouette moving. But yeah, tell it looked like that. So

31:25 Speaker 4: she hands me this video. I'm looking at this video.

31:27 Speaker 4: We put it on the computer, we pull it up,

31:29 Speaker 4: we can see it. We're like, we don't know what

31:31 Speaker 4: this is, So of course we're gonna take this video

31:34 Speaker 4: and we're gonna send it to the one person that

31:36 Speaker 4: we know that if this is bunk, he is going

31:39 Speaker 4: to tell us it's bunk. And that person, Mark d' antonio.

31:43 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we saw the video analyst remove on if everyone

31:48 Speaker 2: doesn't want to.

31:48 Speaker 4: Send him the video. And there were two things in

31:51 Speaker 4: the video that we saw one and we knew that

31:55 Speaker 4: the one was was Bunk. It was a a post

31:58 Speaker 4: from a that because of the shadow, looked like a

32:02 Speaker 4: figure kind of moving out, but it was over too far.

32:06 Speaker 4: That was not the thing that we saw, but it

32:08 Speaker 4: was in the video. And I'm not gonna lie to you.

32:10 Speaker 4: We said it because we wanted to see if Mark

32:12 Speaker 4: would say, hey, that's just a post in it not something.

32:16 Speaker 2: That's actually a good tactics like a police officer, just

32:19 Speaker 2: like trait or investigative mind set is like here, let

32:23 Speaker 2: me give him something that I think is fake, and

32:24 Speaker 2: I want to see his like discernment.

32:27 Speaker 4: So everything that we do we try and put it

32:30 Speaker 4: through as much of a ringer as we can put

32:32 Speaker 4: it through to make sure that it's as legit as possible.

32:35 Speaker 4: Right being Mark, I mean Mark, he's the number one

32:39 Speaker 4: guy on the planet. He caught that pretty quick. He's like, well,

32:42 Speaker 4: that's just a pillar from from the a post from

32:46 Speaker 4: the fence that when when the camera moves over, the

32:49 Speaker 4: light lights it up and it looks like a creature

32:51 Speaker 4: kind of going like this with its arm forward right,

32:54 Speaker 4: And he's like, but he's like, I don't know what

32:57 Speaker 4: you have here. He's like this stuff the shimmering not

33:02 Speaker 4: really shimmering. But like this like kind of oh, how

33:04 Speaker 4: to describe it, like pixelated kind of something. He's like,

33:09 Speaker 4: that's not a trick of the light. That's not a

33:11 Speaker 4: camera flare. That's nothing like I've ever seen. He's like,

33:15 Speaker 4: and you know it's humanoid. It's moving on two legs.

33:20 Speaker 4: And we did not tell him what we saw. We

33:23 Speaker 4: just said, hey, there's two things in this video clip

33:25 Speaker 4: we want you to take a look at. He was

33:27 Speaker 4: the one who told us it basically confirmed the two

33:30 Speaker 4: things that we wanted seeing. But he comes back and

33:34 Speaker 4: tells us, I don't know what that is, but it's

33:36 Speaker 4: humanoid whatever it is. So so we have this on video,

33:42 Speaker 4: we have presented it at stage presentations, and people have

33:45 Speaker 4: come up and seen it, and nobody can explain this thing.

33:49 Speaker 4: So we end up meeting with John John Nover. He

33:53 Speaker 4: was over here at the house and I ended up

33:57 Speaker 4: like kind of just hey, John, we had this weird

34:00 Speaker 4: thing happened, and I kind of explain everything to him,

34:03 Speaker 4: this is what we saw. By the way. I keep

34:06 Speaker 4: looking because I want to see if it's still daylight out,

34:08 Speaker 4: because I respect the beliefs of the Native Americans out here,

34:12 Speaker 4: and they say, you don't say those words after dark,

34:15 Speaker 4: you're not to say. So I keep checking because I

34:20 Speaker 4: want to make sure it's still daylight, because I don't

34:21 Speaker 4: want to say it after dark. But we I explained

34:25 Speaker 4: it all to John, and I'm like, what do you

34:27 Speaker 4: think it is? And John's looking at me like I'm crazy,

34:30 Speaker 4: and he goes, I can tell you exactly what it is,

34:33 Speaker 4: and I was like what. He's like, you ran into

34:35 Speaker 4: two skin walkers and I was like what, And so

34:40 Speaker 4: he proceeds to explain because he's like, not only were

34:42 Speaker 4: they skinwalkers, I can tell you exactly why they did

34:45 Speaker 4: what they were doing. And so he said one of

34:49 Speaker 4: them had changed, the other one had not changed yet

34:53 Speaker 4: He's like the one that changed, he said, when they

34:55 Speaker 4: change from a form to a human form, their eyesight

35:00 Speaker 4: it is not good for about ten to fifteen minutes.

35:02 Speaker 4: He says, they can't see very well. So he said,

35:06 Speaker 4: most likely what ended up happening was the one changed

35:10 Speaker 4: from a creature for whatever creature form it had, to

35:12 Speaker 4: a humanoid form right at the same time that you

35:16 Speaker 4: slam the tailgate shut it. Hears the tailgate slam because

35:20 Speaker 4: we had been whispering, not making any noise. So it's

35:24 Speaker 4: walking across. Here's the tailgate. Shut spins around to see

35:27 Speaker 4: what it is, but it can't see what's going on,

35:30 Speaker 4: so that's why it's kind of moving back and forth

35:32 Speaker 4: trying to see what made that noise. He said that

35:36 Speaker 4: they transform separately, so that one is always on guard

35:41 Speaker 4: for the other.

35:41 Speaker 1: The other.

35:42 Speaker 4: Yeah, he said, the one that was on all fours

35:44 Speaker 4: came running around to protect the one. It stops sees

35:50 Speaker 4: you guys, charged forward to scare you guys, but you

35:52 Speaker 4: didn't run. You reached for your gun, so it stopped,

35:56 Speaker 4: and then they both got out of there. When you

35:57 Speaker 4: look back at the truck, they realized this is not

35:59 Speaker 4: a fight. We want to get it, so they took

36:02 Speaker 4: off while we were.

36:03 Speaker 5: Looking at the truck interest and deep I listened to

36:08 Speaker 5: this and I'm like, this is one of the leading

36:10 Speaker 5: experts on skinwalkers in the world, and he seems to

36:15 Speaker 5: think that's what it was.

36:16 Speaker 4: I got no reason to doubt him. And like I said,

36:19 Speaker 4: at this point in my life, I have encountered enough

36:22 Speaker 4: things that I can't explain, Like I don't know what

36:24 Speaker 4: that is. We sent that video out for analysis. We

36:27 Speaker 4: have had more people see this clip than I know

36:29 Speaker 4: what to do with and nobody can give us anything.

36:33 Speaker 4: I think it's a skinwalker?

36:35 Speaker 2: Is it? Is it somewhere I can look and look

36:38 Speaker 2: it up?

36:41 Speaker 4: No, we have, We haven't in our presentation. We don't

36:45 Speaker 4: share a lot of our stuff because we're worried about

36:49 Speaker 4: where it's going to go. So if you wanted to

36:51 Speaker 4: see it, I would be willing to send it to you,

36:54 Speaker 4: but I not want it out like we normally will

36:58 Speaker 4: tell people to not Like we the nine to one

37:01 Speaker 4: one tape, we have the security footage, we have this

37:04 Speaker 4: video clip, we have a lot of video. We've got

37:06 Speaker 4: bodycam footage from officers, We've got close circuit TV video

37:10 Speaker 4: from things. We show it to people, but we always

37:13 Speaker 4: ask them to turn off any type of recording. You.

37:16 Speaker 4: We would let you see it, but you got to

37:18 Speaker 4: promise us you're not going to put it out or

37:20 Speaker 4: anything like that.

37:21 Speaker 2: I can make that promise, Okay, I just want I'd

37:25 Speaker 2: like to definitely see it. Yeah, I'll agree to that.

37:29 Speaker 2: And so with the evidence that you have kind of

37:37 Speaker 2: gathered on this particular mission, Oh.

37:42 Speaker 4: We have one more story. It's about mission I forget.

37:45 Speaker 4: So we had a completely different officer who had a

37:48 Speaker 4: different sighting and a different part of the res tells

37:51 Speaker 4: us he was at that location writing reports, and remember

37:55 Speaker 4: how I said the little people will try to lure

37:57 Speaker 4: people or trick people. He's sitting there and he's got

38:01 Speaker 4: the windows down because it's, you know, a nice night out.

38:04 Speaker 4: He's typing and he tells us, I heard a baby crying.

38:09 Speaker 4: And I get out of the patrol car and I'm like,

38:11 Speaker 4: why would there be a baby crying out here? And

38:13 Speaker 4: I started walking towards the sound, and it was coming

38:16 Speaker 4: from that ravine. And he's like, I'm walking towards it,

38:21 Speaker 4: which is this is the area where they claim that

38:23 Speaker 4: they have access to the surface world. And so he's like,

38:26 Speaker 4: I would stop moving, and I would hear the cry again.

38:30 Speaker 4: I'd take a couple of steps and then it would stop,

38:34 Speaker 4: and so I wouldn't I'd stop and then I would

38:36 Speaker 4: hear the cry again. And he's like, I got about

38:39 Speaker 4: halfway between the patrol car and this dry river bed,

38:44 Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, I got this feeling like

38:46 Speaker 4: I'm being lured away from the patrol car, like something

38:50 Speaker 4: is trying to get me to go over here. So,

38:53 Speaker 4: remembering the story of the little people, he goes back

38:58 Speaker 4: to the petrol car and he takes off. But I

39:00 Speaker 4: found it ironic because he's like, this is a trained

39:03 Speaker 4: officer who's hearing a baby cry in an area where

39:05 Speaker 4: there should not be any babies. Of course, just to

39:08 Speaker 4: put everybody's mind at ease, after the sun came up,

39:11 Speaker 4: everything that there was no baby there, so don't worry.

39:14 Speaker 4: He did not like abandon a baby in the ravine

39:17 Speaker 4: with with you know, taken. An investigation was conducted to

39:22 Speaker 4: make sure that there was nothing there. But the point

39:25 Speaker 4: was he felt that something was trying to lure him

39:30 Speaker 4: over to.

39:31 Speaker 2: That ravine, which sounds something which sounds I interviewed, So,

39:38 Speaker 2: I'm working on a project. I've been working on it

39:42 Speaker 2: for several years, and I recently recently. I when I

39:48 Speaker 2: say that, well, in fact, I when I say that,

39:50 Speaker 2: I mean recently, like a couple of years. I interviewed

39:54 Speaker 2: a guy named Bill Russo who had an encounter with

39:58 Speaker 2: a puckwadgie that you know, you had brought it that

40:00 Speaker 2: up earlier and again this thing. He was on a

40:04 Speaker 2: walk with his dog at at you know, dawn or

40:08 Speaker 2: not don dusk, when the night was settling or the

40:12 Speaker 2: night was beginning, and this thing tried to lure him

40:17 Speaker 2: into the woods, and it was like cute, and it

40:20 Speaker 2: was little, and it had this like really like high pitch,

40:24 Speaker 2: like cute voice that was trying to lure him into

40:26 Speaker 2: the woods. And luckily his dog was there and was

40:29 Speaker 2: on a very high alert. Or he said, he probably

40:33 Speaker 2: would have been curious if his dog wasn't there and

40:36 Speaker 2: freaking out. He probably would have been curious enough to

40:39 Speaker 2: be like, wait, what is that? Like, yeah, so you

40:43 Speaker 2: gotta like you get and that and that brings me up.

40:46 Speaker 2: It brings me to my next point, because I want

40:50 Speaker 2: to end with the Phoenix lights because I want to

40:52 Speaker 2: know you guys are in Arizona. I really want to

40:54 Speaker 2: know what your experience was like living in the time

40:58 Speaker 2: of the Phoenix and what that was like. I know

41:02 Speaker 2: you guys do a lot of uh speaking at you know,

41:05 Speaker 2: I think I think they hold a annual conference about

41:09 Speaker 2: it or at least a thing, uh a dedication to it.

41:13 Speaker 2: So before that, as a law enforcement officer, you know,

41:19 Speaker 2: I I the kidnapping is obviously a very this is

41:25 Speaker 2: a severe charge, right that is not that's not investigation

41:29 Speaker 2: that that that normally tasked with human on human kidnapping

41:34 Speaker 2: that you don't take super seriously, these abduction stories that

41:39 Speaker 2: that when you do hear them, what's your take on that?

41:44 Speaker 2: You know, what's do you think it's happening? And and

41:47 Speaker 2: and is there a difference between indifference and malevolency or

41:54 Speaker 2: or in this case?

41:56 Speaker 4: Okay, so so I'm gonna tell you my take it

42:00 Speaker 4: is probably a little different than what most people would think.

42:03 Speaker 4: From a police officer. My take on it is this,

42:07 Speaker 4: something happened to that person, and they suffer some sort

42:14 Speaker 4: of trauma, and they are entitled to an investigation. They

42:19 Speaker 4: are entitled to feel safe in their house or safe

42:21 Speaker 4: wherever they are, and it is not our job as

42:25 Speaker 4: police officers to judge what happened to them. Our job

42:29 Speaker 4: is to gather the facts and try and make these

42:32 Speaker 4: people feel as safe as possible. So when you get

42:35 Speaker 4: a case like that, you have to take it seriously

42:38 Speaker 4: because it could very well be that it's nothing extraterrestrial

42:44 Speaker 4: at all, and it could be somebody pretending. We've had

42:48 Speaker 4: cases and move on of people pretending to be alien

42:53 Speaker 4: entities to abduct people or to harass people or stuff

42:56 Speaker 4: like that, and we end up finding out that it

42:59 Speaker 4: has nothing to do with it. They're just trying to

43:00 Speaker 4: do it because they want to make the person seem

43:03 Speaker 4: that they're crazy or try and destroy their family life

43:06 Speaker 4: or stuff like that. So any type of investigation like that,

43:10 Speaker 4: any type of thing that comes forward where somebody says

43:12 Speaker 4: to a police officer, I think this happened to me.

43:15 Speaker 4: It is our job and it is our duty in it,

43:17 Speaker 4: and we owe it to them to a take it

43:20 Speaker 4: seriously and be do a complete and thorough investigation because

43:25 Speaker 4: you never know where that investigation could lead.

43:29 Speaker 3: One of the investigations we did together, and that's one

43:33 Speaker 3: thing we always say is when you do an investigation

43:35 Speaker 3: with moufan, you always bring two people, one to actually

43:38 Speaker 3: do the interview, the other one to observe the body

43:43 Speaker 3: language of that person you're interviewing. Also, if there's someone

43:47 Speaker 3: else in the house, that second person might go off

43:50 Speaker 3: with that of family member or friend that's in the

43:54 Speaker 3: house and talk to them. Case in point on that

43:58 Speaker 3: is it was my case. I was talking to this

44:00 Speaker 3: gal about she believed she was abducted and she lost time.

44:05 Speaker 3: She was walking on a canal bank and early early

44:11 Speaker 3: in the morning before it was daylight, and she would

44:14 Speaker 3: be walking on the canal bank. Next thing, you know,

44:17 Speaker 3: people that are also walking on waking her up. Hey

44:19 Speaker 3: are you okay? You're okay?

44:21 Speaker 4: And she believes.

44:21 Speaker 3: She's you know, lost time and probably was abducted. So

44:27 Speaker 3: I started interviewing her. While I'm interviewing her and our

44:31 Speaker 3: chief investigator was getting all the lights put together. In

44:34 Speaker 3: the audio, Dave was talking to a I believe it

44:38 Speaker 3: was a sister in another room, And so Dave's asking

44:42 Speaker 3: about my galp you know, any health issues, anything out

44:47 Speaker 3: of the ordinary, and just having a conversation. Well, the

44:51 Speaker 3: sister started telling Dave that her sisters here has seizures.

44:58 Speaker 3: If any lights start flickering anything else, she could have

45:01 Speaker 3: a seizure just right right away. So I didn't know

45:05 Speaker 3: about that at first. So I says, okay, great, So

45:08 Speaker 3: Dave is getting good information. I'm talking to the gal

45:12 Speaker 3: that believes she was abducted and lost time. And one

45:15 Speaker 3: of the questions we asked, are you taking any medication?

45:19 Speaker 3: Do you have any medical history of any health issues

45:24 Speaker 3: that you might have? And I don't go specific, And

45:27 Speaker 3: that's one thing about police work. You've you asked open

45:31 Speaker 3: ended questions. You don't ask yes or no, like, are

45:35 Speaker 3: you do you have seizures? Well that could be yes

45:37 Speaker 3: or no, say no, do you have any health issues?

45:41 Speaker 3: Let them tell you. So that's one thing you do

45:43 Speaker 3: is the open ended questions. So I was asking her that, no,

45:47 Speaker 3: have no health issues, not taking any medication, Everything's fine,

45:51 Speaker 3: no problem. I had missing time. I believe I was abducted. Okay, fine,

45:56 Speaker 3: you know great, So I understand that. You know, we

46:00 Speaker 3: took all the information down. We took where on the

46:04 Speaker 3: location of where this occurred with her on the canal bank.

46:08 Speaker 3: So we got all that information. So finished again, like

46:12 Speaker 3: we say, we questioned people. We don't interrogate because Dave

46:16 Speaker 3: already knew that she had health issues, but of course

46:20 Speaker 3: I didn't. And but he didn't go and start talking

46:23 Speaker 3: to her and interrogating her saying, well, wait a minute,

46:25 Speaker 3: don't you have this At some point, you know, she

46:29 Speaker 3: believes in her mind that she was abducted and.

46:33 Speaker 2: You're not there to tell her what she doesn't doesn't

46:35 Speaker 2: feel right.

46:37 Speaker 4: And she did provide a hand drawn picture of what

46:40 Speaker 4: it looked like. She had a picture. You could see

46:43 Speaker 4: the canal bank, you could see where the UFO was,

46:47 Speaker 4: and from what she described, she had drawn something.

46:50 Speaker 3: For us, right, So after our interview, we go out

46:54 Speaker 3: to that location on the canal bank and find the

46:57 Speaker 3: area where she said she was abducted. And what we

47:03 Speaker 3: found is there is a tennis court right on the

47:08 Speaker 3: side of this canal bank and the lights to the

47:11 Speaker 3: tennis court are those type of yeah, sodium lights that

47:16 Speaker 3: when they yet, when they're getting when they're starting out

47:21 Speaker 3: to die, they do the flickering and then flicker. So

47:25 Speaker 3: what we believe happened the time of day where she

47:29 Speaker 3: was located and everything that happened is that those lights,

47:32 Speaker 3: she noticed those lights doing the flickering, and that is

47:37 Speaker 3: what the sister said will cause the sizars a flickering

47:41 Speaker 3: type of light, and that's what was happening.

47:43 Speaker 4: And so when we held up the picture that she drew,

47:47 Speaker 4: you can see the canal. We're literally standing on the

47:49 Speaker 4: canal bank and right where the UFO was is where

47:54 Speaker 4: that light is sticking up out of the tennis court.

47:58 Speaker 4: So if it was flickering, it is exactly where she said.

48:04 Speaker 2: So that's a very good example of like how to

48:08 Speaker 2: investigate and what happens like this is that is a

48:11 Speaker 2: good example of like, hey, not everything is as it seems,

48:16 Speaker 2: but also not everything is spectacular.

48:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's what you can't call somebody a liar.

48:21 Speaker 3: You just got to do a good investigation. Were they

48:24 Speaker 3: abducted Travis or could it be like this.

48:29 Speaker 4: Goal But at the end of the day, the way

48:34 Speaker 4: we found that out was by doing a complete investigation.

48:37 Speaker 4: You can't just shut them down and say, oh, well,

48:39 Speaker 4: that's ridiculous. It didn't happen because we ended up finding

48:42 Speaker 4: out that she ended up having a seizure and she

48:44 Speaker 4: needed to really go get medical attention.

48:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, I mean that's also very true.

48:50 Speaker 2: And that's what I give. I give law enforcement credit

48:55 Speaker 2: and first responders credit because not only are you doing

48:59 Speaker 2: the job, whether it's being a you know, a police officer, firefighter,

49:04 Speaker 2: especially police officer, I think you end up becoming like

49:08 Speaker 2: almost like a you have to do like mental like

49:12 Speaker 2: like you have to kind of be able to be

49:17 Speaker 2: not a shrink, but you have to be able to

49:20 Speaker 2: to like hear people out and let them speak their

49:23 Speaker 2: truth and let them get it all out. And it's

49:26 Speaker 2: you know, maybe that's cathartic in itself for someone is

49:30 Speaker 2: we call.

49:31 Speaker 4: It the human condition.

49:33 Speaker 2: Understanding the human condition right, right, And so with that,

49:38 Speaker 2: with that being said, you know, if what do you

49:47 Speaker 2: think is holding back true disclosure? Is it for all

49:50 Speaker 2: the reasons we've talked about tonight so far? Is it

49:53 Speaker 2: that it's so far beyond what we understand as to

49:59 Speaker 2: be reality and it totally crack open people's reality like

50:03 Speaker 2: they're they're belief systems and or do you think there's

50:10 Speaker 2: some sort of cover up?

50:12 Speaker 3: No, but my this is my belief. Okay, you've got

50:19 Speaker 3: all of these upologists, you've got all these scientists, you've

50:23 Speaker 3: got all these people that think they know what science is.

50:28 Speaker 3: Everybody has their own opinion of what disclosure is gonna be. Okay,

50:33 Speaker 3: My analogy on that is you have a homicide police department,

50:37 Speaker 3: You got a homicide, You got three detectives work in

50:39 Speaker 3: this homicide. If all three detectives says, oh no, this

50:42 Speaker 3: is what happened. Oh no, no, no, this is what happened.

50:45 Speaker 3: Oh no, this is what happened, we'll never solve that homicide.

50:49 Speaker 3: Those three guys and gals get together and they come

50:53 Speaker 3: up with, Okay, this after a thorough investigation, this is

50:57 Speaker 3: how the homicide occurred. Boom, this could be the suspect

51:00 Speaker 3: everybody in the science world or the disclosure world saying,

51:05 Speaker 3: you've got all these people that think they know the answer,

51:08 Speaker 3: and they're backfiting each other. They're lying to each other. Oh,

51:12 Speaker 3: you're not right. This is right, this is right, this

51:14 Speaker 3: is right. And I have seen it at conferences, I

51:18 Speaker 3: have seen it on news things that everybody knows until

51:22 Speaker 3: we all get together as one and come up with,

51:28 Speaker 3: hopefully a situation, solve this situation and come up with

51:34 Speaker 3: an answer. But the only way we're going to do

51:37 Speaker 3: that is if we all come together. And I don't

51:41 Speaker 3: see that happening. Everybody thinks they.

51:44 Speaker 4: Know the answer.

51:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody wants to be the Everybody wants to be

51:48 Speaker 2: the quarterback that runs the ball into the end zone.

51:50 Speaker 2: But they don't realize that we're playing a team.

51:53 Speaker 4: Sport is twofold about disclosure first and it sounds cheesy

52:01 Speaker 4: as it can be. But Tommy Lee Jones and Will

52:05 Speaker 4: Smith sitting on a parion, he saw it. Will Smith says, well,

52:10 Speaker 4: why doesn't the government tell people people are smart? Tommy

52:14 Speaker 4: Lee Jones says, no, a person is smart. People are panicky,

52:18 Speaker 4: dangerous creatures, and you know it. And everybody who's a

52:21 Speaker 4: first responder, especially a police officer, understands that statement on

52:26 Speaker 4: people are dangerous, a person can be smart and in

52:32 Speaker 4: all honesty, what Marianne said along with that is, I

52:35 Speaker 4: personally think that's what the government wants, because if we

52:39 Speaker 4: were to truly get full disclosure, do you guys understand

52:42 Speaker 4: what that means? That means the government, which is arguably

52:47 Speaker 4: the most powerful entity on the planet, has to admit

52:53 Speaker 4: that there are things, entities, beings, racist, creatures, whatever you

52:58 Speaker 4: want to call it, that have better technology, better abilities,

53:04 Speaker 4: better weapons, and when it comes down to it, we

53:08 Speaker 4: can do exactly nothing to stop them. No government is

53:14 Speaker 4: going to admit that to its people because you have

53:18 Speaker 4: just given any sway, any leeway, any power that you

53:21 Speaker 4: have over the people that you are governing. You have

53:24 Speaker 4: just flushed it down the toilet because you have just

53:26 Speaker 4: admitted to them that the government is not the end

53:29 Speaker 4: all be all. There is a group of people or entities, things,

53:32 Speaker 4: whatever you want to call them, that can basically shut

53:35 Speaker 4: it down, and I don't care what government is. No

53:38 Speaker 4: government is going.

53:39 Speaker 2: To admit that, right because it's almost like, and I've

53:43 Speaker 2: said this in other shows before, so it's kind of

53:46 Speaker 2: funny that you're touching.

53:47 Speaker 4: On this.

53:49 Speaker 2: That it's there's like this social social agreement and it's

53:54 Speaker 2: an unspoken agreement between at least in a democracy or

54:00 Speaker 2: you know, whatever that looks like. These days, some argue

54:07 Speaker 2: there's a a deal that the citizens make with the government.

54:13 Speaker 2: You keep us safe, right, and and I can live

54:17 Speaker 2: my good life and I pay my taxes. Right, that's

54:20 Speaker 2: the deal. That's the deal. And and the minute the

54:25 Speaker 2: government comes out and says we can't protect you fully

54:28 Speaker 2: like you are not actually like the odds of something

54:32 Speaker 2: happening to you, you being abducted or anything like you like,

54:36 Speaker 2: they're they're they're small, but it's not impossible, just like

54:40 Speaker 2: someone breaking into your house is I mean, it's the

54:45 Speaker 2: chances are small, but the implication is very large in

54:49 Speaker 2: this case. So I feel like that's what we're stump.

54:53 Speaker 2: And you're right. I don't think any government, unless they're there,

54:56 Speaker 2: their hand is forced by some sort of like like

55:00 Speaker 2: they see something coming and they know, okay, we can

55:04 Speaker 2: plot that trajectory. We have about three years to get

55:09 Speaker 2: everybody at least up the speed. And I kind of

55:11 Speaker 2: think that that might be what's happening. And that's why

55:15 Speaker 2: since twenty seventeen, the shift has kind of occurred.

55:21 Speaker 4: Well that's why everybody says, a UFO landing on the

55:24 Speaker 4: White House lawn, Yeah, because how do you hide that? Well, nowadays,

55:28 Speaker 4: we got AI, we got all sorts of special effects

55:30 Speaker 4: and stuff like that. But I almost think it's going

55:33 Speaker 4: to take something that big to literally, like what you said,

55:36 Speaker 4: force their hand.

55:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you guys a big, a huge case. I mean,

55:42 Speaker 2: one of the biggest. In fact, I mean I know

55:45 Speaker 2: it is is it's it's one of the most well known,

55:50 Speaker 2: if not the most well known mass sighting a whole city,

55:57 Speaker 2: not to mention the people in others states, bordering states

56:02 Speaker 2: and states along these things. Supposed or alleged track which

56:09 Speaker 2: I think was westward from Phoenix or is that? Am

56:13 Speaker 2: I right? Northwest, northwest.

56:17 Speaker 4: Southeast? Yeah?

56:18 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm sorry, So I had it backwards. What

56:22 Speaker 2: was it like to be in Arizona in nineteen ninety

56:28 Speaker 2: seven when the Phoenix lights incident happens. I mean, we're

56:33 Speaker 2: gonna well probably end here, and I'd love to have

56:35 Speaker 2: you guys back on. We've already talked about that. You know,

56:38 Speaker 2: we're two hours in and I could probably talk for

56:40 Speaker 2: another I could asked questions for five hours, probably with

56:44 Speaker 2: all the knowledge that you guys have, but set the

56:48 Speaker 2: stage and and and what was it like during that time?

56:52 Speaker 2: Because I mean, that's.

56:54 Speaker 3: Well, I can make it real easy. I was shift,

56:59 Speaker 3: so I was fast to sleep when all this was happening.

57:03 Speaker 4: And I wasn't a cop yet I started in.

57:08 Speaker 2: Sorry, all right, never mind. So yeah, we'll end it there,

57:12 Speaker 2: Gott And I'm just kidding.

57:14 Speaker 3: Now. There has been We did speak at the Phoenix

57:20 Speaker 3: Lights I guess, not conference but.

57:25 Speaker 4: The Phoenix the annual event event.

57:28 Speaker 3: Yeah, we spoke last year and everything, But my biggest

57:33 Speaker 3: thing is, like I said, I was fast asleep. I

57:36 Speaker 3: went to briefing the next morning. Nobody ever talked about it.

57:41 Speaker 3: That was really nothing. People really didn't talk about it

57:48 Speaker 3: back then in nineteen ninety seven, thanks to the governor

57:52 Speaker 3: knocking it down, you know, to flares. Everybody was talking

57:56 Speaker 3: real quick. It was all flairs flares, so everybody just

57:59 Speaker 3: kind of kept it like, oh okay, it was flares

58:02 Speaker 3: and they just dropped the story.

58:03 Speaker 4: So yeah, So ironically, since we've started UAPPD, we have

58:08 Speaker 4: gotten two officers, one from the Mason PD and one

58:14 Speaker 4: from MCSO that were both working that date, and they

58:17 Speaker 4: gave us their take of what they saw. But interestingly enough,

58:20 Speaker 4: we ended up tracking down a firefighter because we also

58:24 Speaker 4: work with firefighters and other first responders. He told us

58:27 Speaker 4: that he was at a training that that night that

58:30 Speaker 4: had happened with like seventy firefighters and police officers, and

58:35 Speaker 4: he told us what they saw from their perspective because

58:38 Speaker 4: they were up in Cave Creek. But here was the

58:40 Speaker 4: thing that was interesting or in lightning, I should say,

58:45 Speaker 4: in my world, exactly like what Mary Anne said. First responders,

58:49 Speaker 4: nobody talked about it. This guy told us they're all

58:52 Speaker 4: standing around doing a debriefing. They're in the dark. There

58:55 Speaker 4: were helicopter pilots there that were all landed there doing

58:57 Speaker 4: the debrief They see these lights coming from the northwest

59:01 Speaker 4: heading passed, so they're watching it and he's like, initially

59:05 Speaker 4: everybody was all captivated, like, what is this? What is

59:08 Speaker 4: this thing flying? It's huge? What could it be? Is

59:11 Speaker 4: it a group of things flying information or is it

59:13 Speaker 4: one large thing? We couldn't figure it out. And the

59:16 Speaker 4: thing that he said was interesting. He's like, at one

59:19 Speaker 4: point somebody in the group says, Oh, it's probably military

59:24 Speaker 4: and then everybody dropped it. And among law enforcement and

59:28 Speaker 4: first responders, that is a trend. The moment you see

59:32 Speaker 4: something that you can't explain, if somebody throws out, oh,

59:35 Speaker 4: it's probably military, we never push it any further. And

59:41 Speaker 4: that I'm you know, now that we're starting to realize

59:43 Speaker 4: these sort of things. When we were all officers, we

59:46 Speaker 4: didn't think really beyond that, like somebody says, it's military, okay.

59:50 Speaker 4: But now that we're both retired, we're kind of like,

59:52 Speaker 4: why did we always accept that answer? Right? Always just

59:57 Speaker 4: default as soon as somebody with barer stars or st

1:00:00 Speaker 4: I have said, oh, it's military, we just kind of

1:00:03 Speaker 4: let it go. And this was the first time that

1:00:05 Speaker 4: it really kind of came up from a different source

1:00:08 Speaker 4: to me that during the interview when he said it,

1:00:11 Speaker 4: I was like, man, why why is that? Why do

1:00:14 Speaker 4: we just as soon as somebody in command says, oh,

1:00:17 Speaker 4: it's military, we just let it.

1:00:19 Speaker 2: Go, right we we It's it's like a kind of

1:00:23 Speaker 2: like our brains want to, yeah, just taken out on it, right.

1:00:27 Speaker 2: It's like it's easier to just be like okay, And

1:00:30 Speaker 2: and probably especially from a law enforcement you know, you

1:00:33 Speaker 2: guys are trying the goal is to solve things, it's

1:00:37 Speaker 2: not to leave them unresolved. So you know, if someone's

1:00:40 Speaker 2: telling you it's solved, you know it's solved. Uh. And

1:00:45 Speaker 2: I think that that that sometimes, you know, can lead

1:00:48 Speaker 2: to issues, especially with certain other realms of law enforcement.

1:00:53 Speaker 2: But you know, in terms of the Phoenix Lights, uh,

1:00:57 Speaker 2: just looking at it as a as two police officers,

1:01:02 Speaker 2: with the amount of evidence, and whether you want to

1:01:06 Speaker 2: include Fife Simington flipping and now saying he did see it,

1:01:12 Speaker 2: that's up to you. Uh. But do you think that

1:01:15 Speaker 2: that case has enough at least evidences as far as

1:01:19 Speaker 2: you know, witness testimony, video evidence, that and and then

1:01:24 Speaker 2: the mock uh, the air Force trying to recreate the

1:01:28 Speaker 2: event multiple times to know, to no avail, to not

1:01:31 Speaker 2: even close. In fact, it was almost laughable. Is the

1:01:37 Speaker 2: statement that I've been given multiple times that the people

1:01:42 Speaker 2: in Phoenix were very upset that they weren't being taken

1:01:45 Speaker 2: seriously and that something extraordinary happened and honestly might even

1:01:52 Speaker 2: continue to happen. Uh. You know, it seems like doctor

1:01:56 Speaker 2: Linktai has made a case that it didn't just end

1:01:59 Speaker 2: on that it didn't happen on that one night and

1:02:01 Speaker 2: it didn't end on that one night.

1:02:03 Speaker 3: Well, that's inting to say. That is because if you

1:02:06 Speaker 3: talk to John Dover, the night before there were these

1:02:11 Speaker 3: lights up in Loop, which is on the Navajo reservation

1:02:14 Speaker 3: where he lives, where people were saying, here's lights, here's lights.

1:02:17 Speaker 3: They all went outside, they all took out their lawn

1:02:21 Speaker 3: chairs and they sat there and they watched the light show.

1:02:25 Speaker 3: There were lights going all over in that area in Loop,

1:02:29 Speaker 3: and they accepted it, you know, they're like, yeah, okay,

1:02:32 Speaker 3: this happened, and it was interesting. It was the day

1:02:34 Speaker 3: before the Phoenix lights, the thirteen, so that would have happened

1:02:38 Speaker 3: on the March twelve. Phoenix's happened on March thirteen. Now

1:02:43 Speaker 3: was there something?

1:02:45 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I don't think anybody can argue that nothing happened.

1:02:49 Speaker 4: Something happened. The question is was it military? Was it extraterrestrial?

1:02:55 Speaker 4: Was it an in conmensional? The question is what is it?

1:02:58 Speaker 4: I don't think any buddy can get away with saying, well,

1:03:01 Speaker 4: nothing happened that night, or they can get away with

1:03:04 Speaker 4: saying it was flares, like you said, the Flair thing.

1:03:08 Speaker 4: In all, honestly, the Flair thing makes me think it

1:03:11 Speaker 4: might have been more of a government thing, because why

1:03:14 Speaker 4: would they the military be that quick to come up

1:03:17 Speaker 4: with an excuse or or smoking mirrors, look over here,

1:03:22 Speaker 4: look over here thing if they didn't know that something

1:03:25 Speaker 4: was already happening. So part of me thinks, and I

1:03:29 Speaker 4: don't know for sure, but part of me thinks it

1:03:32 Speaker 4: might have been more of a military craft that they

1:03:34 Speaker 4: were testing. But like I said, I don't know. I

1:03:38 Speaker 4: don't have all the facts, but I just think one

1:03:42 Speaker 4: thing makes me wonder.

1:03:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think if it was military, the way

1:03:48 Speaker 2: that that the operation was conducted was it was. I mean,

1:03:52 Speaker 2: it was terrible. Yeah, you show, you showed. You shouldn't

1:03:56 Speaker 2: show the entire city.

1:03:58 Speaker 4: But if you've got to second, let me throw something

1:04:02 Speaker 4: out to.

1:04:02 Speaker 2: You, could be a psychological operation.

1:04:06 Speaker 4: Not even that. Prior to the Phoenix light sighting, there

1:04:12 Speaker 4: was a scientist in the Las Vegas, Nevada area that

1:04:17 Speaker 4: came up with a substance that looked like plexiglass, but

1:04:22 Speaker 4: it basically refracted light and if he held it up,

1:04:26 Speaker 4: you could get behind it and you would see beyond

1:04:30 Speaker 4: where he is. Yeah, let me just throw this out

1:04:35 Speaker 4: there again. I have no proof that this is real.

1:04:37 Speaker 4: I have no proof that this is what happened. But

1:04:39 Speaker 4: I'm just throwing it out. I'm the government, and I

1:04:42 Speaker 4: just created a stealth dirigible. Because this substance, you can't

1:04:45 Speaker 4: move fast. You have to move slow with it. So

1:04:48 Speaker 4: I want to create a platform that can loiter, can

1:04:52 Speaker 4: travel very slowly over an area, and will not be seen.

1:04:57 Speaker 4: So I'm going to take this my craft, my dirigible,

1:04:59 Speaker 4: my stealth blimp, whatever you want to call it, giant

1:05:02 Speaker 4: wing shaped thing. I'm going to cover the entire bottom

1:05:05 Speaker 4: of it with this substance. So what I'm standing on

1:05:09 Speaker 4: the ground looking up, I don't see it. I see

1:05:11 Speaker 4: the stars behind it. We have multiple witnesses that say

1:05:14 Speaker 4: it's like you could see through it, but like it

1:05:18 Speaker 4: was there, but you could see through it. We have

1:05:20 Speaker 4: number of witnesses that have said that. So now I'm

1:05:23 Speaker 4: the government. I want to test this. Where do I

1:05:26 Speaker 4: test it? I need to test it over someplace. So

1:05:29 Speaker 4: I'm going to pick a city that is in the

1:05:32 Speaker 4: middle of pretty much nowhere where if I if it botches,

1:05:37 Speaker 4: if it goes south, we can go north, southeast, or west.

1:05:40 Speaker 4: It doesn't matter which direction we're going to get out

1:05:42 Speaker 4: from that city. We happen to have an airport or

1:05:46 Speaker 4: a military base in that city where we can have

1:05:50 Speaker 4: jets station with flares. If things go south, we can

1:05:55 Speaker 4: launch them, have them drop flares and claim it was

1:05:57 Speaker 4: all a training acts incident or some thing like that. So,

1:06:02 Speaker 4: like I said, it kind of makes sense, now, is

1:06:08 Speaker 4: it the truth? I have no idea. Maybe it was

1:06:10 Speaker 4: an alien craft, maybe it was interdimensional. I don't know,

1:06:14 Speaker 4: but I look at that military thing and for some reason,

1:06:18 Speaker 4: that keeps sticking in my craw about how they were

1:06:22 Speaker 4: able to get jets up there so quick to drop flares,

1:06:27 Speaker 4: and how they were so quick to kind of deny,

1:06:30 Speaker 4: deny cover Fife Symington. Oh yeah, we're going to turn

1:06:34 Speaker 4: it into a joke. And so again, like I said,

1:06:36 Speaker 4: I don't know for sure. I wasn't a cop at

1:06:39 Speaker 4: the time. I didn't see them. I was, I think,

1:06:41 Speaker 4: asleep because I was working a weird shift at that time,

1:06:44 Speaker 4: doing a job before I became an officer. But whenever

1:06:47 Speaker 4: I hear the stories about that, for some reason, I

1:06:50 Speaker 4: always remember seeing that it was on a TV special

1:06:54 Speaker 4: about like Black Files, about this this Colymner or this substance,

1:06:59 Speaker 4: and I'm like, you know, that kind of fits a

1:07:02 Speaker 4: little bit. I don't know, just throwing it.

1:07:07 Speaker 2: Out there, I think, uh that the you know, I

1:07:10 Speaker 2: just had Tim Phillips and he he was a part

1:07:13 Speaker 2: of uh he was the acting director for ARROW for

1:07:16 Speaker 2: a while. And you know, not to say that I

1:07:20 Speaker 2: agree with him on anything or or in fact now

1:07:25 Speaker 2: I don't agree with him on a lot of things.

1:07:28 Speaker 2: But you know, the black triangles and the fiery orbs

1:07:31 Speaker 2: are are are something that even ARROW like can't really explain.

1:07:39 Speaker 2: They can't. They're not saying it's it's aliens or anything

1:07:43 Speaker 2: like that, but they just they definitely can't explain it.

1:07:45 Speaker 2: And the fiery orbs consistently being being seen, uh, whether

1:07:52 Speaker 2: it's Malmstrom Air Force Base, whether it's my Not Air

1:07:56 Speaker 2: Force Base, Vandenberg air Force Base, whether it's Warring Air

1:08:00 Speaker 2: Force Base, Elvesworth air Force Base, you name it, laying

1:08:06 Speaker 2: the air Force base so uh and Rendelsham. Then there's

1:08:11 Speaker 2: the case in Russia or a modern day Ukraine former

1:08:14 Speaker 2: Soviet Union that George Knapp the files he smuggled out

1:08:18 Speaker 2: that at the nuclear site there where this fiery these

1:08:22 Speaker 2: fiery red orbs are seen coming into our nuclear sites,

1:08:26 Speaker 2: our most sensitive facilities and having the ability to tamper

1:08:32 Speaker 2: with our nuclear weapons. I mean, if there's a bigger

1:08:35 Speaker 2: national security implication or threat, if you're looking at it

1:08:39 Speaker 2: from a military standpoint, that's it. And well, like what.

1:08:46 Speaker 4: You said, one of the things that we always talk

1:08:48 Speaker 4: about during our presentations is do we know the answers

1:08:51 Speaker 4: to these things? No? But is it only we don't

1:08:55 Speaker 4: know the answers now? Who's to say what's going to happen?

1:08:59 Speaker 4: So we like to give the example of if we

1:09:01 Speaker 4: had a time machine and we went back in time

1:09:03 Speaker 4: one hundred years and we had a cell phone and

1:09:06 Speaker 4: showed it to somebody, it would be indistinguishable from magic.

1:09:10 Speaker 4: And then if we took technology from one hundred years ago,

1:09:13 Speaker 4: we jumped in and went back a hundred more years

1:09:16 Speaker 4: and we showed both of those the cell phone and whatever,

1:09:19 Speaker 4: that archaic thing that we look at that's ancient. Somebody

1:09:23 Speaker 4: back then is going to look at both of them

1:09:25 Speaker 4: exactly the same. It's magic. We can't understand it. Who's

1:09:30 Speaker 4: to say, fifty to one hundred years from now, we

1:09:33 Speaker 4: might figure out what these are and it might be

1:09:36 Speaker 4: something that we look at at that point as technology

1:09:39 Speaker 4: that right now we look at as paranormal, supernatural, something

1:09:43 Speaker 4: unexplained that we don't believe outside of belief. But who's

1:09:48 Speaker 4: to say one hundred years from now, we're not going

1:09:50 Speaker 4: to look at it the way that we look at

1:09:51 Speaker 4: cell phones right now. Every twelve year.

1:09:52 Speaker 2: Old has a cell phone, right and we're conditioned now

1:09:56 Speaker 2: to if you see a twelve year old without an eyepass,

1:10:00 Speaker 2: if you're like, what's wrong with that kid?

1:10:03 Speaker 4: Why does what?

1:10:04 Speaker 2: Why is he? Why is he paying attention at dinner?

1:10:07 Speaker 2: What is that?

1:10:10 Speaker 4: Matter of time?

1:10:11 Speaker 2: It could be? And again, you know, I'd love to

1:10:16 Speaker 2: have you guys back on. You guys have a I'll

1:10:18 Speaker 2: put the link in the description below w w W

1:10:20 Speaker 2: dot u A p dash p d dot com and

1:10:25 Speaker 2: I have it right here as well. You guys. I

1:10:29 Speaker 2: like the I love the logo. Yeah really because you

1:10:33 Speaker 2: incorporated you know, right, the ufo, the ghostly figure and

1:10:39 Speaker 2: the cryptid. He like the paranormal, cryptid and the other worldly.

1:10:43 Speaker 2: It has everything.

1:10:45 Speaker 4: I love it.

1:10:45 Speaker 2: So what what what if you had to say if

1:10:48 Speaker 2: there's one thing that listeners are get uh people watching,

1:10:54 Speaker 2: if there's one the thing that you'd want to get

1:10:57 Speaker 2: across about uh instigating and law enforcement and the unknown.

1:11:04 Speaker 2: What would that be.

1:11:06 Speaker 3: Well, if what we tell people is that if you

1:11:09 Speaker 3: are a law enforcement officer or a first responder and

1:11:12 Speaker 3: you have seen something that you cannot explain, don't keep

1:11:17 Speaker 3: it inside, don't think you're crazy, don't stress out. Please,

1:11:20 Speaker 3: you have a place to go. Contact us content uap

1:11:24 Speaker 3: dash ped dot com. We want you to understand that

1:11:29 Speaker 3: you could either remain absolutely totally anonymous, you could identify yourself,

1:11:33 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. We just want you to understand there's

1:11:36 Speaker 3: a safe zone that you can come tell us your stories,

1:11:41 Speaker 3: and that you don't have to have that stress inside.

1:11:44 Speaker 3: That's that's one thing that we're This job is stressed enough.

1:11:48 Speaker 3: You don't need to have that hurting your health, hurting

1:11:52 Speaker 3: your mental hurting your family life. We are here for you.

1:11:56 Speaker 3: We want to help you out as best we can.

1:12:00 Speaker 2: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. So what you know is it

1:12:07 Speaker 2: only law enforcement that you work with, or is are

1:12:11 Speaker 2: there are there other ways that.

1:12:14 Speaker 4: You know?

1:12:15 Speaker 2: Could a military person contact you?

1:12:18 Speaker 4: Well, we we do. Any first responders is what we're

1:12:21 Speaker 4: looking for, So firefighters, police officers, EMT emergency room technicians,

1:12:28 Speaker 4: ambulance drivers, emergency room doctors, nurses, corrections parole probation. We

1:12:36 Speaker 4: haven't really done anything with military, but if military police

1:12:41 Speaker 4: they're on duty during it, or a firefighter for the

1:12:43 Speaker 4: military wants to reach out to us, we kind of

1:12:46 Speaker 4: are trying to stay with first responders because that's what

1:12:48 Speaker 4: we won't really understand. But even if somebody just wants

1:12:52 Speaker 4: to talk or has a story and they're not a

1:12:54 Speaker 4: first responder, they can always contact us. We may not

1:12:57 Speaker 4: be able to do an investigation, we may not be

1:13:00 Speaker 4: able to take the story and use it as we're

1:13:02 Speaker 4: using to try and encourage other first responders, but we're

1:13:05 Speaker 4: still going to help people. We might be able to

1:13:06 Speaker 4: direct them to a source, like if it's a UFO sighting,

1:13:10 Speaker 4: we have a lot of contacts with Moufan and the IUFOB,

1:13:13 Speaker 4: the International UFO Bureau. We have connections in with counselors,

1:13:19 Speaker 4: trauma counselors. We have a lot of resources that even

1:13:23 Speaker 4: if it's not a first responder, you just don't know

1:13:25 Speaker 4: where to go right, we might be able to find

1:13:29 Speaker 4: a paranormal investigator or some group that's in your area

1:13:32 Speaker 4: that we might be able to contact and be like, hey,

1:13:35 Speaker 4: we got this story. Can you reach out to these

1:13:37 Speaker 4: people and help them, And that's ultimately what we want

1:13:39 Speaker 4: to do is ultimately we're just trying to help people,

1:13:42 Speaker 4: you know, encountering something like that. You shouldn't have to

1:13:47 Speaker 4: go through it alone. It's a trauma and where we

1:13:50 Speaker 4: want to help.

1:13:51 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I love that. I love that if

1:13:54 Speaker 2: you guys could pick each one before you go on,

1:13:57 Speaker 2: you don't have to go into the case. But what

1:14:00 Speaker 2: is your favorite historical case, whether like you know, if

1:14:04 Speaker 2: it's the Knimtz encounter, Roswell, what's your favorite case to

1:14:10 Speaker 2: ponder over?

1:14:11 Speaker 3: Minus Val Johnson in Minnesota.

1:14:16 Speaker 2: That's a little that's a little obscure. Can you just

1:14:18 Speaker 2: give me the give me the elevator one real quick?

1:14:21 Speaker 1: On that.

1:14:22 Speaker 3: He's driving down the road middle of the night. He's

1:14:25 Speaker 3: on patrol. He's a sheriff's deputy, looks off to his left,

1:14:29 Speaker 3: sees his white ball or something that's in the on

1:14:34 Speaker 3: the roadway, kind of hovering. Thought it was a car accident,

1:14:36 Speaker 3: could have been a plane crash. As he's driving toward it,

1:14:41 Speaker 3: this light comes in through his windshield and hits him

1:14:46 Speaker 3: in the chest. Like he said, it was like a

1:14:49 Speaker 3: getting hit by a two hundred pounds pillow rest he

1:14:54 Speaker 3: had fractured both his upper his job, his top teeth,

1:15:00 Speaker 3: bottom teeth, His had burns are what they called arc

1:15:04 Speaker 3: welder burns to his eyes.

1:15:06 Speaker 2: Wow, oh my god.

1:15:10 Speaker 3: I believe it was a Ford dealership and also not GE,

1:15:15 Speaker 3: but maybe General Dynamics or whoever the big electronic companies

1:15:21 Speaker 3: back then. What was that ninety seventy six, nineteen seventy six.

1:15:29 Speaker 3: They can't figure out what hit the car. But what's

1:15:33 Speaker 3: interesting is all of the damage on the cars on

1:15:36 Speaker 3: the driver's side. It goes from the headlight to the windshield,

1:15:41 Speaker 3: to the light bar of the lights up on the

1:15:45 Speaker 3: bar red and blue lights, over to an antenna and

1:15:49 Speaker 3: go straight back. If it was a rock, if it

1:15:51 Speaker 3: was a bird, if it was any kind of object,

1:15:54 Speaker 3: it would have hit the front of the car and

1:15:57 Speaker 3: then just went off different directions. This went up and

1:16:01 Speaker 3: over where it hit him and went over they matter

1:16:06 Speaker 3: of fact, his patrol car is still in the museum.

1:16:10 Speaker 3: I was just talking to Don Schmidt the other day.

1:16:13 Speaker 3: That car is still in the museum in Minnesota, and

1:16:19 Speaker 3: his cheek of police and everybody believed exactly what he said.

1:16:25 Speaker 4: Right there there you go.

1:16:27 Speaker 3: So I would love to ever get a chance to

1:16:30 Speaker 3: meet this gentleman. But to me, there's so much evidence

1:16:33 Speaker 3: there and I very much this has always been a

1:16:37 Speaker 3: real interesting case for me.

1:16:40 Speaker 2: Wow, that is wild.

1:16:42 Speaker 4: I would say the case that really fascinates me is

1:16:46 Speaker 4: probably even more obscure than Bell Johnson. And that's Jim

1:16:49 Speaker 4: Blackwood from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Clarendon, Nova Scotia. Okay,

1:16:56 Speaker 4: have you heard of that story Royal Canadium. A police

1:17:00 Speaker 4: officer gets called to a bay Clarington, Nova Scotia. There's

1:17:04 Speaker 4: a bay and there is a craft hovering like five

1:17:07 Speaker 4: hundred feet over the water. He's there with like twelve

1:17:10 Speaker 4: other eyewitnesses. They describe it as a silver craft. It's

1:17:14 Speaker 4: got lights on it. He literally takes his flashlight, lights

1:17:17 Speaker 4: it up and it flashes lights back. It ends up

1:17:22 Speaker 4: rising up. After about I think twenty minutes are watching it,

1:17:25 Speaker 4: it rises up and then just takes off. They check

1:17:28 Speaker 4: with the Air Force, everything like that. There's nothing on radar.

1:17:32 Speaker 4: They have no idea what it was like. I said,

1:17:33 Speaker 4: he had dozens of witnesses on the shore that saw

1:17:36 Speaker 4: this thing. But the reason why it sticks out to

1:17:39 Speaker 4: me for two reasons. First of all, the local hockey

1:17:42 Speaker 4: team renamed their team the UFOs, which I thought was awesome,

1:17:45 Speaker 4: but then no way. The second thing was his supervisors

1:17:51 Speaker 4: made him talk to the media and you can find

1:17:55 Speaker 4: the video clips of his interview online talking about out

1:18:00 Speaker 4: what he saw. And one of the reasons that we

1:18:03 Speaker 4: got into UAPPD was what is the ramifications of being

1:18:07 Speaker 4: too honest? When nobody ever talks to Lock talk to

1:18:12 Speaker 4: Annie Zamora after what happened to him after the sighting.

1:18:16 Speaker 4: Nobody ever talked to Veil Johnson what happened to him

1:18:18 Speaker 4: after the siding. Nobody ever talked to this guy after

1:18:20 Speaker 4: the sighting. He was actually asked. He was the only

1:18:23 Speaker 4: one I know that was actually asked afterwards about it,

1:18:26 Speaker 4: and he says, I had to talk because this my

1:18:29 Speaker 4: supervisors made me. But it was the worst mistake I

1:18:32 Speaker 4: ever made for my career because all of these officers,

1:18:36 Speaker 4: their careers go downhill in a big way after these sightings.

1:18:40 Speaker 2: Right, Lonnie actually, you know, famously left the police department

1:18:45 Speaker 2: because he didn't want his baggage attached. And that goes

1:18:49 Speaker 2: back to what we were talking about earlier, is like

1:18:52 Speaker 2: you know, a brother in arms and you know, not

1:18:56 Speaker 2: taking everyone else down.

1:18:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's that's exactly what happened to this guy.

1:19:01 Speaker 4: He's like, it was the worst mistake I ever made.

1:19:03 Speaker 2: It's so sad. So if you're if you are a

1:19:06 Speaker 2: large law enforcement officer or a first responder, definitely reach

1:19:11 Speaker 2: out if you've seen something. And uh yeah, I mean,

1:19:15 Speaker 2: I thank you guys so much for what you do

1:19:18 Speaker 2: and I have so much respect for it. And I

1:19:20 Speaker 2: can't wait to uh come out there to Arizona and

1:19:24 Speaker 2: experience Arizona's got this weird Sedona Phoenix. I mean, what's

1:19:33 Speaker 2: out the air, what's out in the era? You know,

1:19:34 Speaker 2: you guys don't do daylight savings? Yeah, what's wrong with

1:19:38 Speaker 2: you guys?

1:19:39 Speaker 4: Oah, I'll tell you what. You come out here to

1:19:41 Speaker 4: visit sometime. Obviously, you got a place to see here

1:19:43 Speaker 4: with Marianne. I'm offering her house again. We will take

1:19:48 Speaker 4: you to a bunch of different places. We won't take

1:19:50 Speaker 4: you to the Mission.

1:19:51 Speaker 2: The Mission, Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't think I

1:19:53 Speaker 2: want to go there.

1:19:54 Speaker 4: We got some other places that we could take you

1:19:56 Speaker 4: where there's some pretty interesting stuff.

1:20:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I really really want to. It's one

1:20:03 Speaker 2: of the states that I think i've driven through. But

1:20:05 Speaker 2: I didn't like. We didn't even drive through it long

1:20:08 Speaker 2: enough for it to be memorable. So on one of

1:20:11 Speaker 2: one of the trips back, but I I've always wanted

1:20:16 Speaker 2: to see I've always wanted to be. Oh no, I did,

1:20:18 Speaker 2: so I stopped. Ironically, my layover in for contact was Phoenix,

1:20:26 Speaker 2: but I was on the in the airport, so that

1:20:29 Speaker 2: was the closest I ever got. So, yeah, you need to.

1:20:34 Speaker 4: Come out here and spend some time. We can take

1:20:36 Speaker 4: into some pretty interesting places.

1:20:38 Speaker 2: Hell yeah, so yeah, U a p P d uh

1:20:42 Speaker 2: u a P dash PD dot com. Uh, thank you

1:20:44 Speaker 2: for everyone for tuning in. Uh and we'll see you

1:20:48 Speaker 2: on the other side.

1:21:00 Speaker 1: An A

1:21:27 Speaker 4: Type A tepid