Veteran Timothy Short: “Disaster MissionTo Indonesia” Michael Herreras fellow Marine Speaks out!

1:15 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to Total Disclosure.

1:17 Speaker 2: Everybody.

1:18 Speaker 1: My name is Ty and I am the host and

1:21 Speaker 1: creator of the program. Today. I want to start off

1:26 Speaker 1: with a couple dedications. This week, Unfortunately, we lost one

1:35 Speaker 1: of my favorite people in the community. I've done a

1:40 Speaker 1: lot of work behind the scenes with Congress and the

1:44 Speaker 1: Nuclear Witnesses, mainly Bob Salice, Robert Sallie and his wife.

1:49 Speaker 1: Marilyn has passed away a couple of days ago.

1:56 Speaker 2: She was like a damn.

2:01 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't mean for this to start off

2:05 Speaker 1: sappy and sad. I called her. I called her my

2:09 Speaker 1: UFO community mother. She'd remind me to eat, she would

2:14 Speaker 1: send me nutrition like facts. She was a real, real

2:20 Speaker 1: health nut. I dedicate every episode going forward to her,

2:28 Speaker 1: to my own mother. I hope they are looking down

2:31 Speaker 1: with much more answers than we have here, and I

2:34 Speaker 1: hope that they are somewhere, somewhere better. So Marilyn was

2:41 Speaker 1: a rock to Bob, she was a rock to many people.

2:44 Speaker 1: Her voice could calm calm anything. It could calm a storm,

2:49 Speaker 1: it would defeat an army. She she was just that person.

2:53 Speaker 1: So not being said today, we have a pretty great,

2:59 Speaker 1: amazing show for you today. In the mid two thousands,

3:03 Speaker 1: following one of the deadliest natural disasters in modern history,

3:09 Speaker 1: US marines were deployed to Indonesia on what was officially

3:13 Speaker 1: described as a humanitarian aid and that camera just went

3:18 Speaker 1: out already and disaster relief mission. But years later that

3:22 Speaker 1: mission would become the center of one of the more

3:25 Speaker 1: controversial whistleblower claims in modern UAP history. Marine Michael Herrera

3:31 Speaker 1: had gone on record has gone on record stating that

3:34 Speaker 1: during this operation his unit was ambushed not by simple

3:39 Speaker 1: insurgents or a foreign military, but by an elite, unidentified

3:45 Speaker 1: paramilitary force wearing no insignia, all black uniforms, advanced weaponry,

3:52 Speaker 1: advanced technology, and Herrera claim these men were These men

3:58 Speaker 1: disarmed his team with so much ease that it felt

4:03 Speaker 1: all too unfamiliar for these marines. And what they were

4:08 Speaker 1: guarding was not just human technology actually at all. What

4:13 Speaker 1: they were guarding was a craft and it was hovering, silent,

4:17 Speaker 1: and it was open underneath cargo trucks moving in and out.

4:23 Speaker 1: Now on TDP for the first time, we are joined

4:27 Speaker 1: by another marine who says that he was on the

4:31 Speaker 1: same mission. Marine veteran Timothy Short is here to give

4:36 Speaker 1: a tell all account of what he says really happened

4:40 Speaker 1: in Indonesia, What lies I'm off, what lines up with

4:49 Speaker 1: her ERR's story, what doesn't, and what as rarely if

4:53 Speaker 1: ever then said publicly until now. That is so without

4:59 Speaker 1: further ado, make sure to like, share, subscribe all that stuff.

5:03 Speaker 2: This is total disclosure.

5:07 Speaker 3: Mmm.

5:22 Speaker 1: I was a little off there. I didn't I didn't

5:24 Speaker 1: expect to get as emotional about Marylyn. I apologize for that,

5:30 Speaker 1: but thank you, thank you so much for being here.

5:33 Speaker 2: No, I mean it's uh, it's great, you know, Like, yeah,

5:38 Speaker 2: it's hard when you lose people that you care about,

5:41 Speaker 2: and uh, you know, this week's sucks.

5:46 Speaker 1: This week was terrible for me. It was just gut

5:49 Speaker 1: punch after gut punch. I told you about the studio

5:53 Speaker 1: and the apartment situation. That plus I mean, it's just

5:58 Speaker 1: been it's been a shitty we but you and I

6:01 Speaker 1: have been trying to get together for I don't know,

6:04 Speaker 1: Uh it was before I went to d C. I

6:08 Speaker 1: know that we had plans to do this, to do

6:11 Speaker 1: this episode. And I want to say this right out front,

6:15 Speaker 1: just to make it very very clear. I interviewed Michael Herrera.

6:21 Speaker 1: I genuinely like to stay neutral. When he told his

6:27 Speaker 1: story in front of the National Press Club, I was intrigued.

6:31 Speaker 1: His story, I Will not lie definitely stuck out amongst

6:37 Speaker 1: the rest of all of the rest of them. His

6:39 Speaker 1: intrigued me in a way that others didn't, So I

6:42 Speaker 1: knew I had to talk to the guy. I talked

6:45 Speaker 1: to him, and and honestly, I was like, I was

6:47 Speaker 1: kind of impressed, But I wouldn't be doing my job

6:51 Speaker 1: if I didn't hear everything out. You've you've you've sent

6:56 Speaker 1: me pictures of you and him. He's never given me

7:00 Speaker 1: those types of things. So at first I wanted to

7:03 Speaker 1: start off, can you introduce yourself a little bit better

7:06 Speaker 1: maybe than I did, and just let me know you

7:10 Speaker 1: know a little bit about yourself and and and why

7:13 Speaker 1: you're doing.

7:13 Speaker 2: What you're doing. Well, you know, I thought you introduced

7:17 Speaker 2: me pretty well.

7:18 Speaker 3: You know.

7:19 Speaker 2: I like that video. It really slaps in my base

7:22 Speaker 2: here in my headset. But uh uh, my my name's

7:26 Speaker 2: tim Timothy short Uh. I was an three thirty one

7:31 Speaker 2: attached to second second Platoon, Echo Company two five. I

7:39 Speaker 2: was there on the USS Denver with my machine gun team,

7:43 Speaker 2: working like right alongside the three elevens. Who was Michael

7:48 Speaker 2: Herrera and Nathan Labram, Mendez, a couple other guys. Yeah,

7:55 Speaker 2: that that picture. So the picture of me that's on

7:59 Speaker 2: the smoke deck of the USS Denver as we were

8:02 Speaker 2: sailing to Indonesia. Those are some pictures I took of

8:06 Speaker 2: Herrera and another guy.

8:07 Speaker 1: I got a question, is this Herrera too?

8:10 Speaker 2: No, that's actually a picture of Booth, who A lot

8:16 Speaker 2: of people who have followed this, uh carefully right, Booth

8:22 Speaker 2: was in one of the photos Nathan Labram put forward

8:27 Speaker 2: that he had taken of Herrera and Booth flying into

8:30 Speaker 2: the mission. So when I started first started working with Joey,

8:35 Speaker 2: he was telling me that he had spent all this

8:38 Speaker 2: time trying to get a hold of Booth, and nobody

8:42 Speaker 2: seemed to be able to get a hold of him

8:45 Speaker 2: or whatever to ask him his account. So I was

8:48 Speaker 2: able to pull him up on Facebook and chat with

8:52 Speaker 2: him with Booth and so, you know, some of these

8:56 Speaker 2: pictures of the pictures that I had sent to him,

8:59 Speaker 2: and so I included that picture of myself and Booth,

9:04 Speaker 2: you know, as kind of like a lateral way of

9:05 Speaker 2: saying like, hey, I was there with Booth and her

9:08 Speaker 2: Ara and everything.

9:09 Speaker 1: So yeah, you know that was so so you guys,

9:17 Speaker 1: what happens like what happened in Indonesia and why you

9:21 Speaker 1: guys get called out.

9:24 Speaker 2: Well, So, originally we were actually in the Philippines. A

9:27 Speaker 2: little known part of this story is that we actually

9:31 Speaker 2: started in the Philippines. We were there on a training

9:35 Speaker 2: mission at what used to be Fort Clark is kind

9:38 Speaker 2: of a decommissioned army base from like Vietnam that they

9:45 Speaker 2: had decided not to staff anymore. And we were there

9:49 Speaker 2: training with the Filipino Marines when a hurricane had hit

9:55 Speaker 2: the Philippines when we showed up. So our original humanitary

10:00 Speaker 2: mission was in the Philippines. And essentially the way I

10:08 Speaker 2: was told is that two kind of hurricanes hit each

10:10 Speaker 2: other and kind of blasted Manila out. So the first

10:14 Speaker 2: day that we were there, you know, me and my team,

10:18 Speaker 2: we rode with the fire truck from Subic Bay. I

10:21 Speaker 2: have a T shirt somewhere from that fire crew that

10:25 Speaker 2: we rode with to Manila. But we weren't in Manila

10:28 Speaker 2: long when we everybody in second platoons, so it's weapons attachments,

10:34 Speaker 2: my team, you know, obviously Herrera's team. Anybody who's in

10:38 Speaker 2: the second platoon was told to load up, grab all

10:42 Speaker 2: their gear and head back to the Denver. So the

10:45 Speaker 2: Denver was the ship that we were staying on while

10:48 Speaker 2: the rest of two five was on the Essex because

10:51 Speaker 2: they you know, they you know, we were split up

10:55 Speaker 2: amongst the ships because we had different functions. The Denver

11:00 Speaker 2: so we were a track company and the Denver was

11:04 Speaker 2: a track ship. I'm pretty sure I sent you a

11:06 Speaker 2: picture of those tracks loaded on the back of the Denver.

11:10 Speaker 2: But we loaded all our gear up on the Denver

11:14 Speaker 2: and we sailed down to Indonesia like that's it. Those

11:19 Speaker 2: are tracks, So like that's actually the back end of

11:22 Speaker 2: the Denver and it pops down like that and all

11:25 Speaker 2: of the armored tracks like sailing through the water, ah,

11:30 Speaker 2: colecting the bottom of the ship. Interesting, So that was

11:34 Speaker 2: actually us loading the the amphibious vehicles on the Denver

11:39 Speaker 2: right there to head out.

11:41 Speaker 1: So okay, and I gotta, I gotta, I want to

11:44 Speaker 1: jump in here. What what were like the official what

11:49 Speaker 1: what were the official orders?

11:51 Speaker 2: Like?

11:51 Speaker 1: What were you armed?

11:53 Speaker 2: Like?

11:53 Speaker 1: Like what you know, you're not going into a war zone,

11:57 Speaker 1: so I have to assume your you're gear might not

12:01 Speaker 1: be the same like what you're bringing in, what you're

12:04 Speaker 1: carrying in might not be the same as if you

12:08 Speaker 1: were deploying to like say Afghanistan at the peak or

12:11 Speaker 1: Iraq at the at the you know, during the invasion,

12:15 Speaker 1: what what was like some of your personal gear that

12:18 Speaker 1: you had that that you were going to carry into

12:21 Speaker 1: the field every day.

12:23 Speaker 2: Well, we, you know, as an infantry company, we did

12:26 Speaker 2: have like our full battle rattle obviously, like everywhere that

12:29 Speaker 2: we went, we would have our full you know armor.

12:33 Speaker 2: I was a machine gunner, so I carried a two forty,

12:36 Speaker 2: but we would have you know, our rifles, pistols, what

12:42 Speaker 2: have you. They were just on the armory and the

12:44 Speaker 2: ship and then we would take them out as needed

12:47 Speaker 2: because obviously you don't really want to like just be

12:51 Speaker 2: walking around with weapons, you.

12:53 Speaker 1: Know, safe to say you had comms and everything.

12:57 Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. So Actually, so this is kind of like

13:03 Speaker 2: been debated in this whole thing before. But and I

13:09 Speaker 2: had mentioned it when I was talking with Joey, is

13:11 Speaker 2: that the first day that we rolled out on these operations,

13:14 Speaker 2: we had our full complement of weapons. But every other

13:18 Speaker 2: mission we did after that, we didn't have weapons anymore.

13:24 Speaker 2: And so the missions that we did up into the

13:28 Speaker 2: hills where Herrera claims to have seen this craft. He

13:32 Speaker 2: didn't have any weapons. We didn't nobody had any weapons.

13:36 Speaker 2: So right off the bat, you know, in his story

13:42 Speaker 2: he claims that his team, he was leading a team,

13:45 Speaker 2: and that they all had weapons.

13:49 Speaker 1: Which were then you know like I guess, you know, well, and.

13:53 Speaker 2: We'll get there.

13:53 Speaker 1: I'll do a little retelling of like the Herrera story.

13:56 Speaker 1: But you know, essentially this like paramilitary group just you know,

14:05 Speaker 1: without them even really realizing what's about to happen, they're

14:09 Speaker 1: just you know, surrounded and then you know, like disarmed,

14:16 Speaker 1: you know, put to their knees, like essentially like like

14:20 Speaker 1: you're about to die, like on your knees in a

14:22 Speaker 1: firing squad. That's what That's what he made it out

14:25 Speaker 1: to be like. So going back, I just that's what.

14:28 Speaker 2: I wanted to know.

14:29 Speaker 1: What kind of equipment you guys were carrying into the junk,

14:32 Speaker 1: you know, into this into this relief mission.

14:36 Speaker 2: Well see that's what makes this, uh such like an

14:39 Speaker 2: interesting story, right, because if you were attacked by these paramilitaries,

14:46 Speaker 2: right and all you had on you was a pistol

14:49 Speaker 2: and nothing else, it would make sense how they could

14:53 Speaker 2: overcome six six six trained US Marines, right if all

15:01 Speaker 2: you had was a pistol, because you're doing this humanitarian mission,

15:03 Speaker 2: you don't have your battle rattle or whatever, that would

15:07 Speaker 2: make more sense. And yet every time that he's told

15:10 Speaker 2: the story, he had his saw on him, he was

15:12 Speaker 2: in full battle rattle, he had like all his weapons.

15:17 Speaker 2: So it doesn't make sense to me. And no time

15:21 Speaker 2: when I was ever trained, or anybody I know was

15:23 Speaker 2: ever trained, do you just give up your weapons to

15:27 Speaker 2: unknown forces you die? You have the oh yeah, oh yeah,

15:33 Speaker 2: I mean.

15:33 Speaker 1: Because okay, and and this is like this is big

15:36 Speaker 1: for me, and I guess maybe now I'm kind of like,

15:38 Speaker 1: oh shit, because I mean I come from a marine family,

15:42 Speaker 1: you know, And maybe that's what's always like never felt

15:47 Speaker 1: right to me, is from what I've been I'm not.

15:52 Speaker 1: I'm not. I was never in the military. I did

15:54 Speaker 1: think about it for a while, but I have crones.

15:57 Speaker 1: So I was disqualified because I had a pre existing

16:02 Speaker 1: like chronic illness. Yea, But I know that the Marines

16:07 Speaker 1: are usually first in, last out. They're the they're the

16:12 Speaker 1: the they're the the the dog, you know, like they

16:16 Speaker 1: they they are very very well trained. You know their

16:22 Speaker 1: land and like almost amphibious, you know, almost a combination

16:27 Speaker 1: of the Navy in the army, the best of both worlds.

16:31 Speaker 1: Like I've always known Marines to be, you know, the

16:35 Speaker 1: number one slot, like you know right before like you

16:39 Speaker 1: get to your special forces and stuff, just in terms

16:42 Speaker 1: of training. So the way that these guys kind of

16:45 Speaker 1: just like took over and took them down, that never

16:48 Speaker 1: felt right to me, But I mean it is what

16:53 Speaker 1: it is.

16:54 Speaker 2: That's a real you know in the um J right

16:58 Speaker 2: and are uh you know marine codes as well. You know,

17:03 Speaker 2: surrender is your last resort at all times, like your

17:09 Speaker 2: absolute last resort. So if his story was correct where

17:14 Speaker 2: he had six marines, which that it's not even true.

17:18 Speaker 2: But anyways, even if we're saying history is correct, which

17:22 Speaker 2: is not, if he had six marines full AMMO rifles

17:26 Speaker 2: and their squad automatic weapons and they surrendered first, it

17:33 Speaker 2: doesn't even make sense like logic to me, you know.

17:38 Speaker 1: So Okay, going going back, I think I got a

17:41 Speaker 1: little off track there when I went off on the

17:43 Speaker 1: little tangent.

17:44 Speaker 2: Let's talk. Okay, what year is this? Uh, this is

17:49 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine and nine.

17:52 Speaker 1: You touched down, you're there you get you get to

17:56 Speaker 1: where you need to be right talk now, I want

18:00 Speaker 1: to hear it.

18:00 Speaker 2: I want to be there with you. Okay, So we

18:04 Speaker 2: all so we all roll up on the Denver, right,

18:08 Speaker 2: and the Denver has a short flight deck on the

18:11 Speaker 2: back and it has like that large cargo area with

18:16 Speaker 2: the tracks in it yep, and then it's kind of

18:18 Speaker 2: a smaller ship. You know, we're pretty much kind of

18:24 Speaker 2: in tight quarters. So on the half day that we're

18:28 Speaker 2: rolling in. On the half day we're rolling in, they

18:35 Speaker 2: start giving us like intel briefs of like who are

18:40 Speaker 2: locals in the area, which the main one is Jemia Islamia.

18:45 Speaker 2: They're like a HU branch. So that was like our

18:50 Speaker 2: main like, hey, you know these guys are in the area.

18:54 Speaker 2: You know, this is two thousand and nine, so it's

18:56 Speaker 2: the height of you know, the global war on terror.

18:59 Speaker 2: So obviously, you know our main threats are you know,

19:04 Speaker 2: radical right Islam.

19:08 Speaker 1: To maybe take advantage of the situation, ambush you know whatever.

19:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, they tell us about those guys

19:17 Speaker 2: and then they start laying out this plan. So essentially

19:21 Speaker 2: what had happened in Indonesia, right, because you know, let's

19:25 Speaker 2: be honest. Third world country. It's not the most developed

19:28 Speaker 2: country on the planet. We were first going to head

19:35 Speaker 2: out and drop some engineers and some other people and

19:38 Speaker 2: drop supplies off at their local air Force base first.

19:44 Speaker 2: That that was gonna be our first mission. And their

19:47 Speaker 2: air Force base is now International Airport, it's not even

19:52 Speaker 2: a base there anymore. But our plan was to load up,

19:56 Speaker 2: head out to the airport, and and then once we

20:01 Speaker 2: had supplied their local troops, we were going to get

20:06 Speaker 2: clear kind of mission parameters because obviously, so when you

20:11 Speaker 2: do these humanitarian missions, I did a bunch of them.

20:15 Speaker 2: I was in Japan, you know, after the earthquake in

20:18 Speaker 2: twenty eleven. Obviously the one of the Philippines this one.

20:23 Speaker 2: So you're there as guests. You're there as guests of

20:30 Speaker 2: the nation, right, so like you're kind of at their

20:33 Speaker 2: beck and call. You're not just running your own operations,

20:38 Speaker 2: right Like they kind of just say, hey, this is

20:40 Speaker 2: where we need help, this is the kind of help

20:42 Speaker 2: that we need, and you just go do the best

20:46 Speaker 2: that you can to help them out, right. So when

20:50 Speaker 2: we flew out on that mission to the airport, we

20:53 Speaker 2: loaded all four birds. It was pretty much all as

20:56 Speaker 2: second platoon and my team was actually split up amongst

20:59 Speaker 2: the birds. So as a machine gunner, we carry all

21:03 Speaker 2: the heaviest stuff, right, so they choose kind of the

21:07 Speaker 2: biggest dudes and training to become machine gunners because you

21:12 Speaker 2: got to carry, I mean you you sometimes you got

21:15 Speaker 2: to manually carry, like, you know, the big machine guns,

21:17 Speaker 2: you know, fifty pound M two's on top of them,

21:22 Speaker 2: on top of the.

21:24 Speaker 1: Rutsack.

21:25 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so uh, suffice to say, machine gunners, we

21:31 Speaker 2: can move heavy stuff. So we were split amongst the

21:34 Speaker 2: four birds, because my team was four people, we were

21:38 Speaker 2: split amongst the four birds, and we were going to

21:40 Speaker 2: be the unload offload kind of, we were going to

21:43 Speaker 2: do the grunt work. Why the elevens did the security

21:48 Speaker 2: on site, right, So at that time, everybody though was armed.

21:54 Speaker 2: So just so it's clear, I want to like lay

21:57 Speaker 2: out this timeline of armed versus unarmed, Right. This is

22:00 Speaker 2: where people who have tried to like either pick apart

22:04 Speaker 2: the story or defend the story or whatever. This is

22:07 Speaker 2: kind of one of those pain points if you will,

22:11 Speaker 2: of like the story. So that first mission to the airfield,

22:17 Speaker 2: not out into the jungle at all, to the airfield,

22:20 Speaker 2: everybody had their weapons on them. Except for the machine gunners.

22:23 Speaker 2: We left the machine guns in the armory. We just

22:25 Speaker 2: had our pistols. So we flew out to the airfield

22:30 Speaker 2: started offloading supplies, and that's when we met our on

22:34 Speaker 2: site contact, who was a Indonesian colonel general. You know,

22:45 Speaker 2: I don't really know their ranks. He was extremely high

22:48 Speaker 2: up and he when he showed up on the airfield

22:52 Speaker 2: and started coming our way. I remember I was there,

22:54 Speaker 2: and this dude looked like he was lit on fire.

22:58 Speaker 2: Like the guy was yelling in Indonesian. Nobody could understand

23:03 Speaker 2: what he was saying. His arms are flapping like yeah,

23:08 Speaker 2: but I mean he was. He was heated though, and

23:13 Speaker 2: what he was heated about was that we had our weapons.

23:16 Speaker 2: Like he was so offended that we had brought on

23:20 Speaker 2: everything to the airfield because he had said, like, hey,

23:28 Speaker 2: you guys look like an invading force. We called for help,

23:31 Speaker 2: and you guys are here like looking like you're gonna,

23:34 Speaker 2: you know, take over our country, which I mean we

23:37 Speaker 2: probably could have, let's be honest, but uh, you know,

23:41 Speaker 2: to do it. Yeah, but yeah, he was super offended

23:46 Speaker 2: that everybody had weapons. So he was trying to say,

23:48 Speaker 2: get all these people out of here. Get all these

23:50 Speaker 2: armed troops out of here, right and if you guys,

23:54 Speaker 2: if you guys come back, I don't want anybody to

23:57 Speaker 2: have weapons on them. So essentially we had unloaded, everybody

24:04 Speaker 2: loaded back up, and we flew back to the Denver.

24:08 Speaker 2: And while we were there on the Denver, there was

24:12 Speaker 2: like a leadership meeting and at the time, my squad leader,

24:17 Speaker 2: he didn't want to run. He was what we call

24:21 Speaker 2: terminal lance. He kind of had senior itis. This was

24:24 Speaker 2: his last deployment and then he was done in the Marines.

24:27 Speaker 2: He didn't really he was kind of packing it in,

24:28 Speaker 2: if you will. So he had sent me and David Johnson,

24:32 Speaker 2: my best friend, to be like the representatives for the

24:36 Speaker 2: machine gun team at all the meetings. And that's how

24:40 Speaker 2: I kind of have this knowledge of the meetings, Whereas

24:45 Speaker 2: like Nathan when he gave his testimony on like Vetted

24:50 Speaker 2: or some of these other places, he didn't really know

24:52 Speaker 2: too much of like the in depth because of like

24:55 Speaker 2: his position.

24:57 Speaker 4: Right.

24:58 Speaker 2: So that's what I feel like, is you know, good

25:04 Speaker 2: about me coming out to tell this story is because

25:06 Speaker 2: I'm like, I have some of these operational details that

25:11 Speaker 2: I can.

25:13 Speaker 1: You can fill in some of the gaps. Yeah, because

25:16 Speaker 1: so when you come back, When you come back, obviously

25:22 Speaker 1: you guys regroup and you're like, all right, we have

25:24 Speaker 1: to kind of go about this a little bit differently.

25:28 Speaker 1: How do we how do we help but not look

25:31 Speaker 1: like a bad guy?

25:33 Speaker 2: You know?

25:33 Speaker 1: How do we so I can I can wrap my

25:36 Speaker 1: head around that. But you guys are still not going

25:39 Speaker 1: to go in there unprotected for.

25:42 Speaker 2: Lack obviously not. So the compromise became the guys who

25:49 Speaker 2: are going out to do site security, they wouldn't wear

25:52 Speaker 2: their battle rattle. And that's why in those pictures of

25:56 Speaker 2: Booth and Labraham that Joey had showed, none of them

25:59 Speaker 2: have actual armor on, but they pretty much emptied. We

26:04 Speaker 2: emptied the armory of pistols, and everybody who went out

26:08 Speaker 2: used pistols, but we only had about five or six

26:12 Speaker 2: of them. So what we had to do is we

26:14 Speaker 2: had this structure the groups of who's going out there

26:21 Speaker 2: by how many pistols we had, because we didn't want

26:24 Speaker 2: to have like, we didn't want to send an entire

26:26 Speaker 2: squad of twelve guys out and only have half of

26:29 Speaker 2: them armed that the other guys are just standing there

26:32 Speaker 2: with their you know, hands empty like like it's Stalingrad.

26:36 Speaker 2: Like one guy's a pistol, one guy doesn't like you know.

26:40 Speaker 2: So what I had mentioned to Joey is that it

26:46 Speaker 2: so it became this rotational like setup. Right, So we

26:53 Speaker 2: we ran a mission in the morning, and then we

26:56 Speaker 2: would run a mission in the afternoon, and in between

26:59 Speaker 2: we would have the low the birds. So essentially, like

27:02 Speaker 2: all the ships like warships, you see all along the

27:06 Speaker 2: bottom of them, like in the holes of the ship, right,

27:11 Speaker 2: they have like tons of supplies, tons of supplies, food,

27:17 Speaker 2: what have you. Those were our birds that we were on.

27:21 Speaker 1: And I love this picture. Man, I don't know, I

27:24 Speaker 1: don't know why. It just elicits a reaction.

27:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that was them swinging in supplies

27:34 Speaker 2: pretty much like but we had supplies that that bird

27:37 Speaker 2: had supplies on the bottom that they had rigged, and

27:40 Speaker 2: then there was supplies in the top. So what they

27:43 Speaker 2: would do is they would drop the drop the supplies

27:48 Speaker 2: and then park the bird and then unload the supplies

27:50 Speaker 2: that are actually in it. But so then we had

27:54 Speaker 2: this rotation where it was like one squad would go

27:58 Speaker 2: out in the more I mean, one squad would do

28:01 Speaker 2: chores on the ship one squad would rest and it

28:04 Speaker 2: would rotate like that, and mostly our chores on the

28:09 Speaker 2: ship was either working in the galley, which was like

28:14 Speaker 2: the cat cuffterior on the ship. Yeah yeah, or we

28:18 Speaker 2: were moving stuff on like we were. So the supplies,

28:22 Speaker 2: they can't be taken to the flight deck easily. There's

28:28 Speaker 2: no like elevator or whatever, so you'd have to like

28:31 Speaker 2: work it up through the ship like box by box,

28:36 Speaker 2: people passing stuff in like a line, like yeah, literally

28:41 Speaker 2: a line of like people just moving stuff on the

28:44 Speaker 2: ship to get it up to the flight deck. So

28:48 Speaker 2: for me though, my machine gun team, though we were

28:51 Speaker 2: on every rotation because we were gonna be like the

28:55 Speaker 2: cargo guys, we were gonna load an offload. So it

29:01 Speaker 2: didn't matter which mission, whether it was Herrera's mission or

29:04 Speaker 2: any of them. I was there because because of what

29:08 Speaker 2: you did loading and unloading. And that also meant I

29:13 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in the air right on

29:16 Speaker 2: a helicopter just looking out the window. So it'd be

29:20 Speaker 2: kind of hard for me to miss a three hundred

29:22 Speaker 2: foot UFO rising out of the tree line and flying off.

29:26 Speaker 1: But or a team being fucking put to their knees

29:31 Speaker 1: and you know, held at gunpoint like that would have

29:37 Speaker 1: probably that would have been a big story, would.

29:39 Speaker 2: It not be?

29:41 Speaker 1: Uh?

29:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, we would have went in, got our weapons and

29:44 Speaker 2: burned that whole.

29:45 Speaker 1: Fucking jungle to the ground.

29:48 Speaker 2: That's pretty much.

29:49 Speaker 1: So talk to me, what do you and again we'll

29:52 Speaker 1: get I'm trying to build this in a crescen crescendoing way.

29:57 Speaker 1: What what was a normal operation? Not like you guys

30:01 Speaker 1: go out in the morning, right, yeah, what does normal

30:04 Speaker 1: What does a normal operation look like? What are you

30:06 Speaker 1: doing there? Aside from giving supplies? Like are you are

30:11 Speaker 1: you grabbing people up? Are you are you getting them

30:14 Speaker 1: to safety? Is it Katrina like? Is it like that?

30:19 Speaker 2: No? No? So uh. There was a lot of search

30:22 Speaker 2: and rescue ops in Jakarta City, which was next to us.

30:25 Speaker 2: But essentially what that Air Force colonel or admiral general,

30:30 Speaker 2: whatever he was, what he wanted us to do was

30:33 Speaker 2: use our bird power or or helicopter power to deliver

30:37 Speaker 2: supplies up into some of these remote areas because what

30:40 Speaker 2: it had happened is the earthquake had like their roads

30:43 Speaker 2: are not very good, so the earthquake had completely mid

30:46 Speaker 2: mudslide out all of the roads going out of the city,

30:51 Speaker 2: so they couldn't bring supplies to anybody up in kind

30:54 Speaker 2: of these remote areas with any other trucks. And we

30:57 Speaker 2: couldn't use our tracks because we could have used our tracks.

31:01 Speaker 2: We could have really gone in force and like carried

31:02 Speaker 2: a lot of load, but we couldn't use trucks. They

31:05 Speaker 2: couldn't use trucks. We couldn't use our tracks, right, because

31:10 Speaker 2: all of these country roads were just completely collaps bud

31:16 Speaker 2: blud caved out right. So, and you know, that goes

31:21 Speaker 2: into somewhat of his story of him saying that these

31:23 Speaker 2: guys that captured them, they were moving humans on big

31:27 Speaker 2: F one fifty or F three fifties or whatever.

31:31 Speaker 1: To be fair, he didn't say humans originally. That came

31:35 Speaker 1: half yeah, that yeah, he didn't know what was in

31:39 Speaker 1: the boxes. He was told later by Jake Barber that

31:44 Speaker 1: it was human beings and that they were most likely,

31:48 Speaker 1: you know, this left handed male type of person, because

31:54 Speaker 1: that's the best psionic asset. So the story stretches with

31:58 Speaker 1: multiple people, and this is where I want to eventually

32:02 Speaker 1: talk about that, but yeah, I'll defend Mike here. He

32:06 Speaker 1: did not originally he never said human beings. He said

32:11 Speaker 1: he thought it was like he didn't know, he thought

32:13 Speaker 1: it was drugs originally.

32:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, either way, those trucks, how are they driving their

32:20 Speaker 2: F three fifties if the road is way too mud

32:24 Speaker 2: slid out for us to bring our tracks or our

32:26 Speaker 2: trucks or the Indonesians bring their trucks up there they

32:32 Speaker 2: deliver supplies. Why did they specifically need us the helo

32:35 Speaker 2: supplies up there? And the reason it was the roads

32:39 Speaker 2: were too bad? So how are they driving around in

32:44 Speaker 2: F three fifties or whatever if the roads were too bad,

32:48 Speaker 2: is what I'm saying, right, So.

32:50 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, fair enough, fair enough, that is an interesting point.

32:56 Speaker 1: Interesting point, however, I don't think it's that's not I

33:02 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe that's like add that to the list

33:06 Speaker 1: of like, huh, that's that's weird.

33:08 Speaker 2: Sure, I understand it's a nitpick, but I'm trying to

33:12 Speaker 2: weave this quilt, if you will, of information.

33:18 Speaker 1: So but but let's let's continue down that road.

33:23 Speaker 2: So okay, So yeah, in the morning, we would load

33:28 Speaker 2: up one helicopter uh with the crew that was going out, right,

33:34 Speaker 2: so the Marines that were going out, So it would

33:36 Speaker 2: have been uh a team essentially, so each squad is

33:42 Speaker 2: like three teams. It would be a team that would

33:44 Speaker 2: go out. They would be loaded with pistols and nothing else.

33:49 Speaker 1: Under any circumstance would you go out with no comms.

33:53 Speaker 2: No, everybody had comms. So the officer on site he

33:58 Speaker 2: has a radio operator. Are radio operator was a little

34:02 Speaker 2: guy named Zavala. And then each team leader in person

34:08 Speaker 2: had their black gear, which is kind of like a

34:11 Speaker 2: smaller radio. It's not like so the green gear is

34:15 Speaker 2: like the big, huge radio that the radio operator carries

34:19 Speaker 2: and can like broadcast hardcore. And then like the black

34:23 Speaker 2: gears what we called it is is called like it's

34:29 Speaker 2: kind of like a walkie talkie, glorified walkie talkie, if

34:33 Speaker 2: you will. Like so it's more of like.

34:36 Speaker 1: You're not calling in air strikes, right, You're just you're

34:41 Speaker 1: your community. It's literally communication, Like that's what it's just

34:45 Speaker 1: there for is to communicate. Again, you're not there calling

34:48 Speaker 1: in you know, air raid like air strikes, you're not.

34:55 Speaker 1: There's not that kind of need. So and it saves

34:58 Speaker 1: you space.

35:00 Speaker 2: You know, everybody having them carry huge radios.

35:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And it's it's a kind of a small place,

35:06 Speaker 1: so you don't need this huge range radio. So that

35:11 Speaker 1: makes sense. So how about how many people per team?

35:16 Speaker 2: I would say that there was a about six give

35:20 Speaker 2: or take per team, which technically is considered a team

35:24 Speaker 2: plus under the breakdown for us, Like, so any team

35:28 Speaker 2: is supposed to be four people and then four. Our

35:30 Speaker 2: three teams of four become a squad, right, But we

35:35 Speaker 2: had six pistols. So usually when they went out, they

35:39 Speaker 2: had the officer, they had the radio operator, and then

35:44 Speaker 2: they had the four guys who were gonna work that

35:46 Speaker 2: morning shift. Right, So Herrera would have been one of

35:49 Speaker 2: the four. If you've seen that picture of him and

35:52 Speaker 2: Booth flying out, it's him Booth, Nathan's taking the picture,

35:56 Speaker 2: and then you just don't see the fourth guy on

35:59 Speaker 2: the heat on the helo. But essentially that first helo

36:02 Speaker 2: would fly out mostly with crew, not supplies, yep. Those

36:07 Speaker 2: so like the helo would fly out and they would

36:13 Speaker 2: drop the crew off and they would secure the site.

36:16 Speaker 2: Now I put that in quotes because like how much

36:19 Speaker 2: are you really securing with just a pistol? And mostly

36:24 Speaker 2: it was they were going to stay out there to

36:27 Speaker 2: give the locals, like like a point of reference if

36:34 Speaker 2: you will, like our places, show up and get supplies

36:37 Speaker 2: so some of those pictures Joey had had in his

36:40 Speaker 2: video showed like Nathan and Booth and them like drinking

36:44 Speaker 2: coconuts that some kids had given them. There was some

36:47 Speaker 2: of the locals around. They were essentially there to like

36:51 Speaker 2: hold the area and tell people to come up right.

36:54 Speaker 2: So then that first plane would drop them off, and

36:57 Speaker 2: then the other three would be getting low loaded and

37:00 Speaker 2: then would fly out. Whenever it got loaded, it would

37:04 Speaker 2: fly out to that site. Stop, drop everything, unload everything,

37:10 Speaker 2: you know, make sure everything's okay. I think on one

37:13 Speaker 2: of the missions when my when my helicopter landed, some

37:17 Speaker 2: guy had like heat stroke, so they like were like, hey,

37:20 Speaker 2: we're going to just send him back or not a

37:23 Speaker 2: heat stroke.

37:23 Speaker 4: But like a.

37:26 Speaker 2: You know, dehydrated or whatever. I don't know. They were

37:28 Speaker 2: like yeah, So they put him on the bird and

37:32 Speaker 2: he flew back with us right and then like another

37:34 Speaker 2: bird would land you know, pretty much ten minutes afterwards.

37:40 Speaker 2: So there was always helicopters in the air the whole time,

37:48 Speaker 2: and me and my team were on them the whole time.

37:52 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of a lot of movement by

37:57 Speaker 1: by teams plural. There's a lot going on. There's helicopters

38:01 Speaker 1: in the air. You know, it's a it's a constant

38:05 Speaker 1: Like again, you're you're not taking this as a joke.

38:11 Speaker 1: You're you're you're you're there to do a job. And

38:13 Speaker 1: and and the whole platoon that's there is doing it,

38:17 Speaker 1: yes and turning it out. So if you have heroes

38:20 Speaker 1: in the air, again, that raises a question for me,

38:24 Speaker 1: how does nobody else see this craft? So I'm starting

38:30 Speaker 1: to get those kind of questions, like if there's constant movement,

38:34 Speaker 1: how did if this craft does does exist.

38:37 Speaker 2: How did it get in and out unnoticed? How are they?

38:41 Speaker 1: How are they doing this? Like you know what I mean?

38:44 Speaker 1: Is it? Is it some I'm trying to weigh this

38:47 Speaker 1: stuff in my head, but all right, keep going.

38:50 Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued by this. Well, okay, so that's I

38:58 Speaker 2: guess so opera rationally, that's how it went right, That's

39:03 Speaker 2: pretty much it. Essentially, it would hit around noon lunchtime,

39:07 Speaker 2: if you will, and the very last bird on the

39:11 Speaker 2: morning shift would essentially pick up whatever team was there

39:15 Speaker 2: doing security. I put into air quotes because how much

39:18 Speaker 2: security really doing with just pistol. But they would load

39:21 Speaker 2: up that team, fly them back onto the denver and

39:25 Speaker 2: then everybody would pretty much have lunch in the galley

39:29 Speaker 2: and then we would rotate, so now a new team

39:32 Speaker 2: would be the team going out, So like the first bird,

39:36 Speaker 2: they would load up on the first bird and fly

39:37 Speaker 2: out and like to set security right. And then you know,

39:43 Speaker 2: the team that had been resting, they were hauling boxes

39:46 Speaker 2: to load the the helicopters, you know, full supplies, and

39:52 Speaker 2: then those helicopters would go out when they were full,

39:55 Speaker 2: and the whole shebang would start again. We would run

40:00 Speaker 2: through the whole afternoon operation, same thing, pick up that

40:04 Speaker 2: security team, fly them back, and then at night everybody

40:08 Speaker 2: was just kind of off. Everybody had dinner, and then

40:12 Speaker 2: it was just kind of planning, and you know, they

40:15 Speaker 2: secured the birds like that picture that I had sent you,

40:18 Speaker 2: like the bird kind of like secured. That's what they

40:21 Speaker 2: would do at night is safe space on that small deck.

40:25 Speaker 2: They would like pop down the yeah you can see

40:28 Speaker 2: the rotors. They would like pop them down so they

40:30 Speaker 2: were condensed, and then they would chain them to the

40:33 Speaker 2: back of the of the deck or whatever so they

40:37 Speaker 2: didn't slide off.

40:38 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, you don't want to lose a bird

40:41 Speaker 1: that way.

40:41 Speaker 2: Not like that. I mean, that's like a couple of

40:44 Speaker 2: million dollar machine or something.

40:46 Speaker 1: You just let that slide into the ocean on a

40:49 Speaker 1: relief mission. But okay, so now we kind of we

40:54 Speaker 1: kind of we've kind of gone over what's happening on

40:58 Speaker 1: the day to day. Right the overall mission? What give

41:05 Speaker 1: me one sentence what the overall mission was? Was it

41:09 Speaker 1: just like, is it, Hey, we're here to help people,

41:12 Speaker 1: give them aid and to get out right? Is that

41:15 Speaker 1: is that safe to say?

41:16 Speaker 2: It was mostly to supply remote areas of Indonesia?

41:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, with that being said, let's watch. I want

41:30 Speaker 1: to get into this really now. I want to I

41:33 Speaker 1: want to take the Herrera story. You cut in and

41:35 Speaker 1: out a little bit there, or I'm cutting in and out.

41:38 Speaker 2: I don't know.

41:42 Speaker 1: That's okay, you know what I think it might be

41:44 Speaker 1: you I'm gonna.

41:45 Speaker 2: I'm gonna.

41:46 Speaker 1: What I want to do right now is I want

41:47 Speaker 1: to play this video. It's it's just a quick three

41:49 Speaker 1: minute video of Herrera describing the craft that he saw,

41:54 Speaker 1: and now we can kind of get into that part

41:56 Speaker 1: of the of the story. And because I think it'd

42:00 Speaker 1: be unfair to not hear him tell his own side

42:04 Speaker 1: and hold on, let me get this up here. We're

42:08 Speaker 1: gonna go full screen. There we go. So this is

42:13 Speaker 1: from a friend of the show Reality Check News Nation.

42:19 Speaker 2: Uh.

42:19 Speaker 1: This is Ross coltheart. I'll be speaking with uh Meighan

42:24 Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks at the end of February.

42:26 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about that. I met her at the

42:28 Speaker 1: James Fox National Press Club event and she's so so very,

42:32 Speaker 1: so very nice. So here is Michael her Era on

42:36 Speaker 1: News Nation.

42:37 Speaker 2: Really good one second, so I can't hear you. I

42:46 Speaker 2: might have to reset.

42:48 Speaker 1: That's okay, Yeah, refresh the page, okay, yeah, and you'll

42:53 Speaker 1: go in and out and when this video will just

42:55 Speaker 1: keep playing.

42:59 Speaker 5: I created thing, my estimates to be about three hundred

43:02 Speaker 5: feet in diameter. The shape of it was like octagonal

43:06 Speaker 5: because I could see when it was rotating, you could

43:08 Speaker 5: see where the shadowing was affecting some of the areas

43:11 Speaker 5: that weren't basically reflecting part of the sun or whatnot,

43:13 Speaker 5: so you could see like the sections. And then I

43:16 Speaker 5: had like a scale pattern on this thing that weight.

43:20 Speaker 5: It could have been a circular pattern, it could have

43:22 Speaker 5: been an octagonal, it could have been hexagonal. So again

43:26 Speaker 5: we weren't that close enough to make out those fine details.

43:30 Speaker 5: There were these panels basically on all the ridges that

43:33 Speaker 5: were black, and it was like the blackest black that

43:36 Speaker 5: I've ever seen, and like you could shine a laser.

43:40 Speaker 2: Into this thing and it would basically absorb that light.

43:43 Speaker 5: And then you know, being an octagonal shaped craft with

43:49 Speaker 5: three hundred feet, I mean, that's pretty obvious to see

43:51 Speaker 5: something like that rotating. It's obviously not a building, it's

43:54 Speaker 5: not any kind of conventional aircraft that I've ever seen,

43:58 Speaker 5: and the fact that it.

43:59 Speaker 6: Didn't make any dreitional noise for propulsion.

44:02 Speaker 7: So just so unclear. You've got presumably some kind of

44:06 Speaker 7: disc source shaped craft hovering above a platform below it,

44:11 Speaker 7: and there's no visible connection of any kind of constructive

44:15 Speaker 7: material between the platform and the craft above it. No

44:21 Speaker 7: what's on the platform, so.

44:24 Speaker 2: They as that's going on.

44:25 Speaker 5: When we got held up, there were some trucks that

44:28 Speaker 5: started to drive into the picture, and I had estimated

44:32 Speaker 5: there were at four f three fifties.

44:34 Speaker 8: They were that type here anything.

44:36 Speaker 5: They could have been toileter tundras, but they didn't have

44:38 Speaker 5: any marketing me either.

44:40 Speaker 2: No logo. Yeah, and they can hear me, but I

44:42 Speaker 2: can't hear anything outline.

44:44 Speaker 8: They also had.

44:47 Speaker 5: Off roading capabilities, like you could tell that these things

44:50 Speaker 5: were beefed up to handle that kind of terrain, and

44:52 Speaker 5: they had these containers that they were pulling that they

44:54 Speaker 5: were essentially loading onto the platform underneath this craft. And

45:00 Speaker 5: as that's going on, we're looking at the people that

45:03 Speaker 5: are holding us up because they're stripping us of our

45:05 Speaker 5: weapons or take the amol out of our pouches, and

45:07 Speaker 5: they're threatening to kill us. The entire time they took

45:10 Speaker 5: our IDs out of our left breast pocket, which I

45:14 Speaker 5: don't know how these guys unless you know that was

45:16 Speaker 5: my speculation that these guys were US military at one point,

45:19 Speaker 5: because they knew where we kept our IDs, you know,

45:21 Speaker 5: and it's they were also American. But the way that

45:25 Speaker 5: they moved, the way that they actually engaged us with

45:29 Speaker 5: the tactics they've had is something that's advanced, you know,

45:31 Speaker 5: and it's something that they've it was well done enough

45:35 Speaker 5: to the point where you could tell they maybe rehearse

45:37 Speaker 5: this or they've done it quite a bit to where

45:40 Speaker 5: they knew exactly what to do at.

45:42 Speaker 6: That point and how to deal with people who were

45:43 Speaker 6: armed like us.

45:46 Speaker 7: Were these men showing any kind of ribbons, patches, identifying

45:53 Speaker 7: name patches, anything like that.

45:56 Speaker 5: No, not a single thing.

45:58 Speaker 7: What were they wearing what kind of place?

46:00 Speaker 2: I think black clothing.

46:02 Speaker 5: I mean something that you would see like a like

46:04 Speaker 5: a swat officer would wear something along the lines of that.

46:08 Speaker 5: You know, they have black bulletproof vests or flat jackets.

46:13 Speaker 5: And they were wearing ball caps. They didn't wear helmet.

46:15 Speaker 5: Can you hear me, they were just regular baseball caps.

46:19 Speaker 2: I'm good to go.

46:21 Speaker 7: They were obviously armed. Did they show you any kind

46:25 Speaker 7: of ID Did they express any kind of authorization other

46:29 Speaker 7: than pointing a weapon in your face?

46:31 Speaker 6: No, they just said we weren't We weren't supposed to

46:33 Speaker 6: be there.

46:34 Speaker 5: And you know, they.

46:34 Speaker 2: Started basically saying we could kill you. We could.

46:37 Speaker 6: It's easy to get lost out.

46:39 Speaker 5: In the jungle.

46:49 Speaker 1: Okay, so let me this is still playing in my

46:55 Speaker 1: back backside. So we just listened to I know you

46:58 Speaker 1: were having a little issue, so you didn't get to

47:00 Speaker 1: you didn't get to hear it. But uh, we just

47:04 Speaker 1: we just heard Michael explain the incident in a very

47:09 Speaker 1: it was like a four minute clip.

47:11 Speaker 3: Uh.

47:11 Speaker 1: He explained the entire incident from what it looked like,

47:14 Speaker 1: I'm gonna now ask you some questions, So don't worry

47:18 Speaker 1: as long as you know that.

47:19 Speaker 2: That's uh, that's actually one of the videos I broke

47:23 Speaker 2: down in that document I sent you.

47:25 Speaker 1: Which I'm gonna share it them. Yeah, I'll share that

47:27 Speaker 1: in a moment. Okay, Actually, do you want to share

47:30 Speaker 1: it now? Did you want to or do you want

47:34 Speaker 1: to just go break it.

47:34 Speaker 2: Down however you want to do it? You're the host.

47:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so, I guess I should make those

47:40 Speaker 1: decisions in my head instead of speaking them aloud. But

47:47 Speaker 1: this craft, he says, So now he is on a

47:52 Speaker 1: essentially he's on one of these missions that you're talking about.

47:56 Speaker 1: Sounds like he's in he's trying to say that he's

47:58 Speaker 1: on the the afternoon or the the ripe as daybreak

48:05 Speaker 1: or day end is happening dawn, you know, so he's

48:09 Speaker 1: out there at that hour. It sounds like I was

48:13 Speaker 1: never really sure exactly what time the incident happened. But

48:18 Speaker 1: him and his team, which is made up of five

48:21 Speaker 1: or six people including himself, which don't have they don't

48:26 Speaker 1: have comms. They're walking, according to okay, okay, according to him,

48:34 Speaker 1: they don't have comms. They're they're walking through the jungle.

48:40 Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know what they're doing.

48:44 Speaker 1: Are they carrying supplies? He never really says it. What

48:49 Speaker 1: are they doing? Are they just going for a search

48:52 Speaker 1: and rescue? I So so that question comes into play.

48:56 Speaker 1: But on that whatever like walking trip, he's in the jungle,

49:01 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden he's surrounded by an elite

49:07 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, paramilitary like elite, skilled

49:12 Speaker 1: trained force, wearing no insignia, all black, like all black everything,

49:19 Speaker 1: advanced technology like like what we would call like an

49:23 Speaker 1: iPhone today, like in twenty sixteen, you know, but in

49:28 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, right again, this is a different time.

49:32 Speaker 1: So they're using like scanners, like like they're scanning IDs

49:37 Speaker 1: with these advanced machines, which we know can be done now.

49:41 Speaker 1: And so that part of it I've never had a

49:44 Speaker 1: problem with. We know that DARPA is ahead of us

49:46 Speaker 1: by many years. The military, especially an elite force like this,

49:52 Speaker 1: what they would have. Theoretically, this checks out. What doesn't

49:58 Speaker 1: check out for me is that they his Michael's team

50:02 Speaker 1: had no comms. According to him, they are fully armed.

50:07 Speaker 1: They're not just carrying pistols, right, they have everything, and

50:11 Speaker 1: they are essentially surrounded and within seconds made to look

50:16 Speaker 1: like bitches. I'll say it, bitches. Every marine I've ever

50:24 Speaker 1: met is one thing crazy, but they are not bitches.

50:29 Speaker 2: So, all of a.

50:30 Speaker 1: Sudden, five very trained marines on a relief mission walking

50:36 Speaker 1: through the jungle and they're overtaken by a group of

50:40 Speaker 1: paramilitary something and then in the ruckus they're put to

50:44 Speaker 1: their knees told you're gonna you could get lost out here,

50:50 Speaker 1: You're you're gonna die out here in the jungle. And

50:54 Speaker 1: in that distance, Michael sees, uh, this operation happening vantable

51:00 Speaker 1: three hundred feet for the record, that's pretty fucking large,

51:06 Speaker 1: but it's pretty low to the ground. It's vanta black.

51:09 Speaker 1: It's like octagonal shaped, so it's got a lot of

51:12 Speaker 1: paneling like sides, so it's not seamless like you would

51:17 Speaker 1: think a UFO is not like the one I saw.

51:20 Speaker 1: But so in the background of being held at gunpoint,

51:25 Speaker 1: he sees what they're guarding. And they're guarding this operation

51:29 Speaker 1: where they're bringing trucks and they're loading onto this craft,

51:33 Speaker 1: this pedestal, this pad, and they're driving the trucks onto

51:38 Speaker 1: the pad, the pad is lifting up, connecting with the

51:41 Speaker 1: bottom of the ship and then you know whatever they're

51:46 Speaker 1: unloaded that comes back down, Rinse and.

51:49 Speaker 2: Repeat, and this is happening. You were there.

51:55 Speaker 1: Why didn't this happen?

51:57 Speaker 2: It sounds.

52:01 Speaker 1: When I heard it. Of course I had doubts. I

52:04 Speaker 1: always have doubts. Tell me why it didn't happen.

52:11 Speaker 2: Well, so that document I mentioned, I have some timestamps

52:14 Speaker 2: from that News Nation in Reality Check video, right though,

52:21 Speaker 2: a lot of them. A lot of the points I

52:24 Speaker 2: have on here if you look at them like they're

52:27 Speaker 2: countering kind of what he said in his Sean Ryan interview.

52:32 Speaker 2: So there is a lot of like discrepancies between the

52:35 Speaker 2: two of them. So a lot of that is what's

52:38 Speaker 2: on here. But you know, some of the main points

52:42 Speaker 2: I took away from that that interview, right, and why

52:47 Speaker 2: I don't think this happened, right is, obviously he says

52:53 Speaker 2: they have weapons. They did not have weapons. We already

52:56 Speaker 2: explained the whole airport thing and not having weapons. They

53:01 Speaker 2: had just pistols. But he claims that they were fully armed,

53:04 Speaker 2: fully you know, fully loaded what have you right? Loaded

53:12 Speaker 2: for bear and that they rolled out in a six

53:15 Speaker 2: man team. So One of the things that changed from

53:19 Speaker 2: his other interview to this one is he no longer

53:21 Speaker 2: says he was leading the team, because I think he

53:24 Speaker 2: was getting heat from that from both Nathan Labram and

53:27 Speaker 2: myself both claiming that he wasn't in a leadership position.

53:31 Speaker 2: Right Plus, the six man team, yes, there's probably six

53:38 Speaker 2: people there, but it doesn't really make sense that all

53:44 Speaker 2: six would go because he claimed that they were going

53:46 Speaker 2: to set up an ope, which is an observation point. So, oh,

53:53 Speaker 2: that's what their goal was. That's what he claimed in

53:57 Speaker 2: the Sean Ryan Show. It became more or vague as

54:00 Speaker 2: time goes on, but he claims that they were setting

54:04 Speaker 2: up a kind of like overwatch position on their security site,

54:11 Speaker 2: and that he was supposed to lead the team and

54:13 Speaker 2: set up this overwatch position three hundred meters away. But

54:19 Speaker 2: when you're in triple canopy jungle in Indonesia, what use

54:24 Speaker 2: is a three hundred meters away observation post is triple

54:28 Speaker 2: canopy jungle, you can't walk to feet without seeing anything,

54:32 Speaker 2: So it doesn't really make sense that he was on

54:35 Speaker 2: this op. Right. Plus, if there's only six people on

54:41 Speaker 2: the team, you don't send all six people to create

54:45 Speaker 2: an observation post. You know, you usually send like one

54:49 Speaker 2: or two people and they're kind of in a flinked

54:52 Speaker 2: pattern that a.

54:54 Speaker 1: More tactical that would be like something you'd want a

54:59 Speaker 1: minimal tax, more tactical agile, like be able to move

55:02 Speaker 1: kind of quick force, like you'd want to send out

55:05 Speaker 1: a couple guys to do to set something like that up,

55:08 Speaker 1: not an entire team, like you said.

55:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean it kind of you know, just tactically,

55:16 Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense, right, And so he was claiming

55:20 Speaker 2: that he was sent up a slope and no one

55:25 Speaker 2: saw his team once they got up the slope from

55:28 Speaker 2: down in the op because they were over the back

55:30 Speaker 2: of it, and that when he got up the slope

55:33 Speaker 2: that's when he saw the aircraft or whatever. But it

55:37 Speaker 2: still doesn't make any sense because the whole purpose of

55:41 Speaker 2: this mission is to bring in supplies every twenty minutes

55:46 Speaker 2: and unload them and give them out to people. So

55:49 Speaker 2: why are you going to like other alternate positions and

55:52 Speaker 2: like reducing our manpower, you know, the manpower that we

55:56 Speaker 2: have to unload stuff and pass it out to do

56:03 Speaker 2: a three hundred meters away security op that you can't

56:06 Speaker 2: even see the you know, you can't even see the

56:11 Speaker 2: landing zone from where you are because the jungle is

56:13 Speaker 2: so thick, interesting, and it's supposedly over hill, like it

56:17 Speaker 2: just tactically doesn't really make any sense, right. And also,

56:23 Speaker 2: you know what was interesting is like, you know, he

56:26 Speaker 2: claims that Nathan wasn't with him, despite that that picture

56:32 Speaker 2: Nathan took of him and Booth on the helicopter, you know,

56:37 Speaker 2: so he's he's already trying to claim that Nathan wasn't

56:42 Speaker 2: there and involved. And obviously, I guarantee if you ask

56:47 Speaker 2: him about me, he's going to say I wasn't there involved.

56:49 Speaker 1: So but you I can see that you were there.

56:54 Speaker 1: I can see that you were with it. When did

56:56 Speaker 1: you meet Michael?

57:00 Speaker 2: Oh did you know him?

57:02 Speaker 1: Did you know him before you touched down there?

57:06 Speaker 2: Like? Yeah, actually, to a degree, me and Michael were

57:09 Speaker 2: somewhat friends. Okay, I would actually considered him my friend

57:14 Speaker 2: because the two of us are kind of gym rats.

57:19 Speaker 2: So I would see him lifting weights after work pretty

57:25 Speaker 2: much every day. Ok you know, there was a bunch

57:29 Speaker 2: of times that me and him worked out together, you know,

57:34 Speaker 2: like because at the time we were both lowman on

57:39 Speaker 2: the totem pole. Right. So, like the way deployments work

57:45 Speaker 2: in the Marines, right is usually have a spin up

57:48 Speaker 2: time of six months. You deploy for six months to

57:52 Speaker 2: a year, and then you come back and you do

57:54 Speaker 2: some training, and then you go on a deployment and

57:56 Speaker 2: you have the cycle of like going out and coming

57:59 Speaker 2: back and going out and coming back. Right. So during

58:03 Speaker 2: all that whole workup, right, if you're new to the unit,

58:08 Speaker 2: you're like kind of the lowest man on the totem pole.

58:11 Speaker 2: You got to do all of the grunt work, the

58:13 Speaker 2: cleaning whatnot. So me and Herrera both being low on

58:17 Speaker 2: the totem pole, you know, me and him moved boxes

58:20 Speaker 2: and clean shit together all the time. Right. Yeah, The

58:25 Speaker 2: reason he was low man on the totem pole despite

58:27 Speaker 2: being is that he went a wall. But that is

58:31 Speaker 2: he also got demoted again two weeks prior to going

58:35 Speaker 2: on this mission, which is something I could never understand.

58:41 Speaker 1: Again coming from a military family, the one thing you

58:43 Speaker 1: never do ever is you do not go a wall,

58:49 Speaker 1: no matter what. I know what he says, why he

58:53 Speaker 1: did it, and a part of me is like, fuck,

58:58 Speaker 1: I kind of understand, but there had to be another way.

59:05 Speaker 1: There had to be another way. Right right, like that

59:13 Speaker 1: was one thing, you know, like, okay, just being frank here.

59:19 Speaker 1: I just want to be frank, because again I am neutral.

59:21 Speaker 1: I I something some part of me. Damn it, the

59:27 Speaker 1: camera's dead. There's a picture over here. It says, I

59:30 Speaker 1: want to believe there's that part of me that hears

59:34 Speaker 1: Michael's story and I hear someone who's scared, maybe a

59:39 Speaker 1: little like not taken seriously. And for all those reasons,

59:47 Speaker 1: I think like I want it. Maybe I want to

59:51 Speaker 1: believe more than there is some logical inconsistency to the story.

59:56 Speaker 1: I again, I'll be frank about it. I I'm neutral.

1:00:02 Speaker 1: I heard him out. I have to hear you out

1:00:04 Speaker 1: as well. Right, is the way.

1:00:06 Speaker 2: I see it.

1:00:10 Speaker 1: For all the reasons that I that I want to

1:00:14 Speaker 1: trust him, there's just as many things that make me like, wait,

1:00:22 Speaker 1: you went a wall, Wait you did this? Wait what

1:00:28 Speaker 1: so again? It does so at least meet with those

1:00:31 Speaker 1: that room for at least a conversation with you, And

1:00:36 Speaker 1: I know what you're saying is essentially that nothing crazy

1:00:43 Speaker 1: like that happened. There was no UFO, there was no

1:00:46 Speaker 1: ar V like and that what that does for me

1:00:50 Speaker 1: is that takes this whole story and it turns it

1:00:53 Speaker 1: into just a relief like Katrina style, like maybe a

1:00:58 Speaker 1: UFO was there and maybe maybe that that didn't happen,

1:01:02 Speaker 1: but it didn't happen like this, right. That's what you're

1:01:06 Speaker 1: essentially saying, is nothing like that happened, and for us

1:01:09 Speaker 1: in the UFO community, what that does and why people

1:01:13 Speaker 1: will never really hear you out. I'm telling you right

1:01:17 Speaker 1: now what the real story is behind people's discontent to

1:01:22 Speaker 1: hear you is because they don't want to because it

1:01:26 Speaker 1: takes one of those cinder blocks that they've built this

1:01:31 Speaker 1: narrative with. It takes one of them out, and they're

1:01:35 Speaker 1: afraid that the rest of the house is gonna come

1:01:38 Speaker 1: cumbling down, You see what I'm saying.

1:01:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean I definitely got that by reading

1:01:46 Speaker 2: some of the comments on Joey's video. The first one

1:01:52 Speaker 2: he hasn't dropped, the second one. We actually did kind

1:01:54 Speaker 2: of two interviews each one where like an hour and

1:01:56 Speaker 2: a half long. But yeah, you.

1:02:03 Speaker 1: Know, that's what you're up against, is you're.

1:02:05 Speaker 2: Up again send me comments saying I'm intel, I don't

1:02:08 Speaker 2: know how I was ever. You know, let's address it.

1:02:13 Speaker 2: All sorts of stuff.

1:02:14 Speaker 1: Are you and let me ask. I guess I should

1:02:17 Speaker 1: have asked this up front. Are you because I I mean,

1:02:24 Speaker 1: if you are, you'll have to lie to me anyway.

1:02:26 Speaker 1: So if you lie to me, you know that's on you.

1:02:28 Speaker 2: You take that to the grave.

1:02:31 Speaker 1: You can't, you know, at the end of the day.

1:02:33 Speaker 1: And this is what I say to everybody that talks

1:02:35 Speaker 1: that I talk with. You could be lying to me.

1:02:39 Speaker 2: At the end of the day.

1:02:40 Speaker 1: You have to look yourself in the mirror.

1:02:43 Speaker 2: So that's that is it.

1:02:45 Speaker 1: So I'm not here to judge. I'm here to facilitate. Right.

1:02:50 Speaker 1: Are you working for the US government to smear Michael

1:02:54 Speaker 1: Herrera's name and story?

1:02:57 Speaker 2: No?

1:02:58 Speaker 1: Are you, or have you ever been an intelligence asset?

1:03:04 Speaker 2: Now are you?

1:03:08 Speaker 1: Are you still working for or in any shape, way

1:03:13 Speaker 1: or form for the US military or any contracting agency

1:03:18 Speaker 1: that works in tandem.

1:03:21 Speaker 2: No, I'm completely currently I'm just retired, okay, and volunteer

1:03:27 Speaker 2: as the head of security at my local church. Okay, Well,

1:03:31 Speaker 2: it's your operations I run now.

1:03:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, the only operations at the pews.

1:03:37 Speaker 2: Maybe pretty much. I love it. I love it. Are

1:03:40 Speaker 2: you a man of faith?

1:03:43 Speaker 1: I am?

1:03:43 Speaker 2: Yeah?

1:03:45 Speaker 1: So you believe in God, angels, and demons?

1:03:52 Speaker 2: So, yeah, do you live in a world where.

1:03:58 Speaker 1: You would accept the idea of an alien non human

1:04:02 Speaker 1: intelligence existing?

1:04:05 Speaker 2: I do. I mean you could say no, I'm not

1:04:09 Speaker 2: opposed to it. And by no means am I trying

1:04:12 Speaker 2: to have my testimony like destroy the idea UFOs or

1:04:18 Speaker 2: anything like. That's not my intent. My intent has always

1:04:22 Speaker 2: been to set the record straight about this operation, you know.

1:04:29 Speaker 2: And the reason why is because there's so many few

1:04:33 Speaker 2: there's already so few people on that operation, and so

1:04:36 Speaker 2: many of them are gone now, some of them passed away,

1:04:42 Speaker 2: and I feel like I'm one of the only people

1:04:46 Speaker 2: still around who even knows this story and can shed

1:04:53 Speaker 2: light on it.

1:04:54 Speaker 1: Well, is there any way that this operation happened and

1:05:00 Speaker 1: under your nose that you were not read in?

1:05:03 Speaker 2: That you.

1:05:05 Speaker 1: That that you just didn't need to know?

1:05:09 Speaker 2: And I don't think so, because the thing is like

1:05:13 Speaker 2: if he was ambushed out in the jungle, he wouldn't

1:05:16 Speaker 2: have been read into that mission, right, because you know

1:05:19 Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, so, I don't think anybody was

1:05:23 Speaker 2: read in unless like there's some shadowy forces that are

1:05:26 Speaker 2: like wait until the Marines get over the hill and

1:05:28 Speaker 2: then wipe them out or something like, you know, it

1:05:32 Speaker 2: could there be.

1:05:34 Speaker 1: In any circumstance. Could there have been a situation where

1:05:38 Speaker 1: Michael's team goes out in the sixth by the group

1:05:42 Speaker 1: and you're not informed because you don't need to know.

1:05:47 Speaker 1: He's not read into anything. He he stumbles into it

1:05:51 Speaker 1: and he gets attacked by these guys because they you know,

1:05:55 Speaker 1: they're they're they're encroaching on this like extremely extremely unconstitutional

1:06:07 Speaker 1: act that they're using the cover of a natural disaster

1:06:12 Speaker 1: to abduct human beings or whatever. They're using some sort

1:06:16 Speaker 1: of anti gravity propulsion system, something that defies all logic.

1:06:21 Speaker 1: It's three hundred feet, it's the size of a goddamn

1:06:25 Speaker 1: small building, and it's vanta blacks and it's undula. It's oscillating,

1:06:30 Speaker 1: slowly rotating. Is there any way that you think that

1:06:35 Speaker 1: this could have happened without your knowledge?

1:06:39 Speaker 4: No?

1:06:40 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I mean it, and we can break it

1:06:43 Speaker 2: down more. But just the tactics he describes, the way

1:06:46 Speaker 2: he describes the conditions he describes, all of those are

1:06:49 Speaker 2: not the conditions. All of those were not the tactics

1:06:51 Speaker 2: that we use. None of how he lays out the

1:06:56 Speaker 2: terrain is how it was. Plus me and my team

1:07:00 Speaker 2: were in the air twenty four to seven, and he

1:07:05 Speaker 2: describes this three hundred foot craft taking off. So unless

1:07:10 Speaker 2: I need to get my eyes checked, or did need

1:07:13 Speaker 2: to get my eyes checked? And getting older now, but

1:07:18 Speaker 2: you know you don't just miss a three hundred foot

1:07:21 Speaker 2: craft whoa taking off? Well, I'll argue that.

1:07:27 Speaker 1: When I will argue that, I think if like I

1:07:33 Speaker 1: have seen, I can I would swear on anything on

1:07:37 Speaker 1: a Bible whatever I've seen a disc like broad daylight

1:07:43 Speaker 1: fucking tree, top level brother like, And I grew up

1:07:47 Speaker 1: next to an air force base during you know when

1:07:49 Speaker 1: this happened. Was it was? It was like shortly after

1:07:52 Speaker 1: nine to eleven, right, so, and I come from a

1:07:56 Speaker 1: military family. I just I knew what flew and what didn't.

1:08:01 Speaker 2: I I saw it with your own eyes, Like, yeah,

1:08:04 Speaker 2: you see it through a radar. You saw it with

1:08:06 Speaker 2: your own eyes, right, I mean?

1:08:08 Speaker 1: So, so my point my point being, uh, unless no

1:08:14 Speaker 1: one from my neighborhood ever spoke up, I was the

1:08:19 Speaker 1: only person who saw that craft that day. As far

1:08:22 Speaker 1: as I know, I know what I saw. I know

1:08:26 Speaker 1: I'm telling the truth. I know whatever happens when I

1:08:30 Speaker 1: die and I go to meet the maker, I will

1:08:33 Speaker 1: be able to say, I know what the fuck I saw.

1:08:36 Speaker 2: I don't care.

1:08:37 Speaker 1: I don't need validation from anybody. I know what I saw, right,

1:08:41 Speaker 1: I don't need the the Herrera that like. I don't

1:08:44 Speaker 1: need the if it is a lie, if your story

1:08:46 Speaker 1: is a lie, I like for me, I know, I

1:08:50 Speaker 1: know that something fucking crazy is out there. It's whether

1:08:54 Speaker 1: or not people are taking advantage of that and co

1:08:58 Speaker 1: opting this community into these crazy fucking stories that sound

1:09:06 Speaker 1: legit and then are corroborated by other people because Jake

1:09:11 Speaker 1: Barber corroborates it, essentially, and this guy says he's a

1:09:16 Speaker 1: Tier one operator, special special operator. So do you know

1:09:21 Speaker 1: any of the guys that were with Michael that day?

1:09:26 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I know all of them, and I've

1:09:31 Speaker 2: talked to a bunch of them, Like I mentioned, I've

1:09:34 Speaker 2: talked to Booth recently. You know, there was Mendez, Nathan Labraham.

1:09:41 Speaker 1: So these are guys that were allegedly with Michael. Put

1:09:45 Speaker 1: to their knees, guns, used the straps on their guns,

1:09:48 Speaker 1: used to tie them up.

1:09:50 Speaker 2: Essentially, none of them say that happened.

1:09:54 Speaker 1: But these are the guys that are allegedly there with him.

1:09:58 Speaker 2: These are the people that be on his stick. So okay,

1:10:02 Speaker 2: the way he described like the what I can tell

1:10:04 Speaker 2: you for sure is that there's six people on that stick,

1:10:08 Speaker 2: and he claims that six people walked out into the jungle. Now,

1:10:11 Speaker 2: tactically that doesn't make any sense, but let's just believe

1:10:16 Speaker 2: it's true. So everybody who was on his stick, which

1:10:19 Speaker 2: would include Patrick Booth, would have had to walk into

1:10:24 Speaker 2: the jungle and get taken down. And none of those people,

1:10:29 Speaker 2: Nathan Labram, Patrick Booth, none of them claim that any

1:10:34 Speaker 2: of that ever happened. All of them have said the

1:10:37 Speaker 2: same thing to me and anybody else that they sat

1:10:41 Speaker 2: around drinking coconuts and passing out supplies and nothing like.

1:10:46 Speaker 1: They were never ambushed.

1:10:49 Speaker 2: They were never ambushed. And you know, he'll say, oh yeah,

1:10:52 Speaker 2: they signed all these nbas and couldn't say anything. I

1:10:55 Speaker 2: was just how reliable are humans? I mean, these are

1:10:59 Speaker 2: people that I lived with for years after this point.

1:11:04 Speaker 2: These are people that I got blackout drunk with. I

1:11:08 Speaker 2: I was sitting in dirt holes with. You're telling me

1:11:13 Speaker 2: none of these people had perfect codes of silence. None

1:11:16 Speaker 2: of these people got a little bit too drunk and

1:11:19 Speaker 2: might have mentioned something would have happened. It doesn't make

1:11:21 Speaker 2: any sense. There wasn't make any sense.

1:11:24 Speaker 1: I think that if and maybe you can do this

1:11:28 Speaker 1: for me, maybe we can get this, maybe we can

1:11:32 Speaker 1: do something.

1:11:35 Speaker 2: Would one of them talk to me? I mean, why

1:11:43 Speaker 2: I can put you in touch with them. But all

1:11:45 Speaker 2: I'm saying is like the vibe that I got by

1:11:49 Speaker 2: reaching out to these guys, and I can, you know,

1:11:52 Speaker 2: on the back end, send you the screenshots of my

1:11:54 Speaker 2: messages with these people. I'm not trying to secure anything offense.

1:12:00 Speaker 1: I would love I would need to hear now no

1:12:03 Speaker 1: now here, if they're maybe let them watch this. Here's

1:12:07 Speaker 1: my market one one hour or twelve minutes in. This

1:12:12 Speaker 1: is my plea to you guys. I know you don't

1:12:17 Speaker 1: want to be dragged into this. It is a currently

1:12:21 Speaker 1: currently there is a stigma attached to the idea of

1:12:26 Speaker 1: these events. But if you are bringing, if your name

1:12:32 Speaker 1: is out there as being associated with this event, do

1:12:37 Speaker 1: you not at least owe it so one time, come

1:12:43 Speaker 1: and say to me, who's interviewed Michael to you know,

1:12:49 Speaker 1: who's watched this the whole way, who's seen it the

1:12:52 Speaker 1: whole way, who's followed it the whll way. Give us

1:12:56 Speaker 1: some sort of closure on that. Tell us yours because

1:13:00 Speaker 1: right now, Tim, I again, I think I'm loving this.

1:13:06 Speaker 1: I like the fact that there is that we're trying

1:13:12 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of whether this really happened,

1:13:14 Speaker 1: right because this has been one of the larger stories

1:13:17 Speaker 1: of the past few years. It's been referenced on Joe Rogan,

1:13:21 Speaker 1: It's been referenced on American Alchemy, It's been referenced UAP, big, big,

1:13:28 Speaker 1: big channels.

1:13:29 Speaker 2: So it's in the ether.

1:13:32 Speaker 1: Doctor Greer talks about it constantly. It is a brick

1:13:37 Speaker 1: in the modern UAP narrative at this point, and then

1:13:40 Speaker 1: Jake Barber reinforces it by saying he was one of

1:13:44 Speaker 1: the guys that was doing the takedowns, Like that's what

1:13:48 Speaker 1: his job would have been. He would have been in

1:13:50 Speaker 1: the helicopter, flying the helicopter for retrievals. But he knows

1:13:56 Speaker 1: those guys in the black All Black who ambushed that

1:14:00 Speaker 1: group of Marines. So you got two guys saying that

1:14:06 Speaker 1: this thing happened, and it would have happened, or it

1:14:08 Speaker 1: could have happened, and then these other guys don't want

1:14:13 Speaker 1: to come out and at least tell us, hey, guys,

1:14:17 Speaker 1: you know, the other stuff might be true, but this

1:14:20 Speaker 1: story isn't my name was used in it.

1:14:24 Speaker 2: That's not necessarily true. I mean, Nathan did come out.

1:14:28 Speaker 2: I'm not the only person that's come out. Nathan was

1:14:31 Speaker 2: the original person that came out, and nobody wanted to

1:14:34 Speaker 2: believe him. So well, no, he was on Vetted and yeah,

1:14:43 Speaker 2: he was on Vetted, and I think he did another interview.

1:14:49 Speaker 2: But Nathan Labram, his team leader, Uh, you know, a

1:14:53 Speaker 2: guy I know well, has came out and he also

1:14:57 Speaker 2: talked with Joey. But the he enabels them as disinformation agents.

1:15:02 Speaker 2: I get it. Well, so Nathan didn't have the steam

1:15:09 Speaker 2: to keep like pushing this. Essentially, he showed up, did

1:15:11 Speaker 2: an interview on Vetted, and did one another interview and

1:15:15 Speaker 2: then he just said, this is all ridiculous. I don't

1:15:17 Speaker 2: want to be involved with this, and like that was

1:15:20 Speaker 2: the sentiment of most of the people on this team.

1:15:22 Speaker 2: Everybody just laughs about this. They you know, they're like, ah,

1:15:28 Speaker 2: this is kind of fake. I can't believe he's saying

1:15:30 Speaker 2: this or whatever, blah blah blah, you know, and they're

1:15:33 Speaker 2: just going about their lives. I mean, these guys are

1:15:35 Speaker 2: family people. They're like most none of them are in

1:15:38 Speaker 2: the Marines anymore, you know, like they they're running businesses

1:15:44 Speaker 2: and stuff. They don't they think it's a joke and

1:15:46 Speaker 2: they don't care, right, So, like that's why I had

1:15:49 Speaker 2: mentioned I don't know if any of them would want

1:15:52 Speaker 2: to talk to you, because nobody seems to really care

1:15:56 Speaker 2: about this at all. And but me, you know, well,

1:16:00 Speaker 2: as I mentioned, I'm retired, and I got plenty of

1:16:04 Speaker 2: time and I was there, So that's why I decided

1:16:07 Speaker 2: to throw my hat in the ring. Plus, I feel

1:16:09 Speaker 2: like it's the thing to do as a man of

1:16:11 Speaker 2: integrity to try to tell the truth, you know, a

1:16:13 Speaker 2: man of faith, like a man of God. Yeah, I'm

1:16:17 Speaker 2: just trying to tell the truth. Plus, you know, the

1:16:19 Speaker 2: thing is like two degree. This feels a lot like

1:16:22 Speaker 2: stolen valor to me, Like, yeah, usually stolen valor is like, hey,

1:16:26 Speaker 2: I did a bunch of combat deployments and I'm a

1:16:29 Speaker 2: Navy seal or something, when really you were a cook.

1:16:31 Speaker 2: But I mean two degree that's what this is. I mean,

1:16:36 Speaker 2: I don't know why he has to embellish this. This

1:16:38 Speaker 2: was a great operation. We helped a lot of people.

1:16:43 Speaker 2: I don't really understand the motivation for him to do this,

1:16:45 Speaker 2: but you know, Herrera was always kind of a weird dude,

1:16:48 Speaker 2: kind of an outcast type. I was one myself, That's

1:16:51 Speaker 2: why we got along. But well, I don't know if

1:16:54 Speaker 2: I was an outcast. It was more of the quiet

1:16:56 Speaker 2: guy that read books instead of partying, you know, like

1:16:59 Speaker 2: that's just kind my personality.

1:17:01 Speaker 1: But I hear you, I really do, and I don't

1:17:05 Speaker 1: mean to, like, you know, put you against the fire.

1:17:08 Speaker 1: But it's not something I wouldn't do to anybody, right

1:17:17 Speaker 1: I I think it's brave what you're doing, especially when

1:17:24 Speaker 1: what you're sacked up against is a community that doesn't

1:17:29 Speaker 1: like to be wrong because they think that if one

1:17:34 Speaker 1: of their stories that they've you know, put their name on,

1:17:39 Speaker 1: is wrong, then they lose all their credibility. And I

1:17:43 Speaker 1: think it should be the opposite. In this cutting edge,

1:17:47 Speaker 1: like talking about the phenomenon you know, plural like UFOs,

1:17:56 Speaker 1: like consciousness, what happens after we die. We have to

1:18:00 Speaker 1: be humble when we are wrong, and we have to

1:18:03 Speaker 1: admit it.

1:18:04 Speaker 2: Right.

1:18:05 Speaker 1: So that is why I'm here, That's why I'm listening

1:18:09 Speaker 1: to you, because I understand the fact about being on

1:18:15 Speaker 1: the right side, right about about putting my mouth, putting

1:18:21 Speaker 1: my ass, you know, in that in that seat to

1:18:24 Speaker 1: cash that check, right, Because I could talk a big

1:18:28 Speaker 1: game and say yeah, I'm a neutral guy. I stay

1:18:30 Speaker 1: neutral and then just just talk to experiences and not

1:18:34 Speaker 1: the people who say, hey guy, this may this this problem.

1:18:38 Speaker 2: This didn't happen.

1:18:39 Speaker 1: I was there too. So that's why I want to

1:18:42 Speaker 1: have this conversation with you, because I owe it to

1:18:45 Speaker 1: like integrity to do so.

1:18:49 Speaker 2: And Lea, I mean, You've been genuine and upfront and

1:18:54 Speaker 2: just a total pleasure to talk to, you know, this

1:18:57 Speaker 2: whole time. So you know, I'm, as I've told you before,

1:19:01 Speaker 2: I'm genuinely grateful that you're willing to like have me

1:19:06 Speaker 2: on your podcast to talk about this because you know,

1:19:09 Speaker 2: when I first started out on this journey about a

1:19:11 Speaker 2: year ago, when I learned about this, like nobody really

1:19:15 Speaker 2: wanted to listen to me. You know, I sent messages

1:19:17 Speaker 2: to all sorts of people, all sorts of shows, their emails,

1:19:22 Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff. I pretty much resorted to having

1:19:24 Speaker 2: a couple of drinks and like popping comments on people's

1:19:29 Speaker 2: video like videos, you know, other kind of I had

1:19:34 Speaker 2: kind of no other avenue. So truly I am grateful.

1:19:41 Speaker 1: Well, okay, now let's get back to some of these details, sure.

1:19:50 Speaker 2: The way that they are.

1:19:53 Speaker 1: What are some more of the inconsistencies in that you

1:19:56 Speaker 1: that you're you're that you'd like to highlight in Because

1:20:02 Speaker 1: there's also this this this camera and phone thing where

1:20:09 Speaker 1: he said that all of their all of their phones

1:20:12 Speaker 1: and pictures were like suddenly gone, and that he had

1:20:19 Speaker 1: a camera and the SD card was was missing from it.

1:20:24 Speaker 1: What did you guys have cameras? Is that a plausible thing?

1:20:27 Speaker 2: So so you could have obviously those pictures that I

1:20:30 Speaker 2: sent you, I took those pictures, right, I mean, I

1:20:33 Speaker 2: had a camera myself. But so I don't know if

1:20:37 Speaker 2: you know this info. We haven't really talked about it,

1:20:39 Speaker 2: but it's in the second part of the video that

1:20:41 Speaker 2: I did with Joey. Let's go exclusive. If he's not there,

1:20:46 Speaker 2: there's no way his story about the camera is true

1:20:50 Speaker 2: because I was there, right, so he claims, so fast

1:20:57 Speaker 2: forward through the operation. His story is that he flew

1:21:02 Speaker 2: back on the helo. The minute he got there, there

1:21:05 Speaker 2: was an admiral on the ship, and this admiral like

1:21:10 Speaker 2: secretly arrived and which admirals never secretly arrived, asking the

1:21:15 Speaker 2: navy guy like.

1:21:18 Speaker 3: You know.

1:21:19 Speaker 2: So he claims that this admiral showed up and then

1:21:22 Speaker 2: like bullied him and the guys into signing some sort

1:21:26 Speaker 2: of NBA or like told them they'll be killed if

1:21:31 Speaker 2: they don't uh sign this or that or whatever. But

1:21:37 Speaker 2: his like ace in the hole is that he took

1:21:39 Speaker 2: pictures of this craft on his camera. That's what he

1:21:42 Speaker 2: claimed in the Sean Ryan Show that when they went

1:21:45 Speaker 2: up the hill, he took out his camera, took among

1:21:47 Speaker 2: pictures of this and then that was gonna be his

1:21:50 Speaker 2: like safety net, which doesn't even make sense. That these

1:21:53 Speaker 2: guys are special forces. Why didn't they just take his

1:21:54 Speaker 2: camera and break it? Like why would they? Yeah, Like,

1:21:59 Speaker 2: these guys are special horses, they're the best of the best,

1:22:01 Speaker 2: but they don't know how to pat somebody down for

1:22:03 Speaker 2: a camera like that doesn't make sense to me anyway somehow. Yeah, yeah,

1:22:08 Speaker 2: that's what he claims. That he put in his drop pouch,

1:22:10 Speaker 2: which that's one of the first things you search on

1:22:12 Speaker 2: an armed like combatant like that. But he put in

1:22:15 Speaker 2: his drop pouch and they didn't search him, right, so

1:22:17 Speaker 2: he was able to sneak off with the camera after

1:22:20 Speaker 2: they let him go or whatever, and then he claims

1:22:23 Speaker 2: that the camera was his backup. He signed this NBA

1:22:27 Speaker 2: because he was forced into it, was gonna lose his

1:22:30 Speaker 2: career or something if he didn't. And then he snuck

1:22:32 Speaker 2: down into our birthing where we were all living and

1:22:36 Speaker 2: like got the camera out and made sure that the

1:22:37 Speaker 2: pictures were there. And then the ship went into port

1:22:42 Speaker 2: in Subic Bay, which that's true. So we left Indonesia

1:22:46 Speaker 2: when the operation was done, we sailed back to the Philippines.

1:22:49 Speaker 2: Subic Bay is a port that we use in the

1:22:53 Speaker 2: US Navy. And then we had the weekend off. Essentially

1:22:58 Speaker 2: it was like three days, but we essentially had the

1:23:00 Speaker 2: weekend off in the Philippines to go party and you know,

1:23:06 Speaker 2: to go explore, right, because like that was our time off,

1:23:09 Speaker 2: our liberty time as it's called. So we pulled in

1:23:13 Speaker 2: on the ship that night and then we got liberty

1:23:16 Speaker 2: that night and then for two days afterwards. Right. But

1:23:19 Speaker 2: the thing is when you go on liberty, one person

1:23:24 Speaker 2: has to stay at all times on what's called a

1:23:26 Speaker 2: fire watch and watch your birthing to make sure nobody

1:23:32 Speaker 2: breaks in and steals anything, essentially, right, So the birthings

1:23:36 Speaker 2: that we were in, right, there's only one door in.

1:23:39 Speaker 2: It's kind of like a heavy door that you got

1:23:41 Speaker 2: to kind of like do the twist thing and push

1:23:43 Speaker 2: it out right, and that would go into where essentially

1:23:47 Speaker 2: there was bunk beds like two three I think it's

1:23:51 Speaker 2: three bunk beds coffin racks is what we called them.

1:23:55 Speaker 2: And you would sleep like, you know, three to a

1:23:58 Speaker 2: man or whatever. Right, And so everybody had their stuff

1:24:01 Speaker 2: in the birthing, so while everybody was off the ship,

1:24:04 Speaker 2: you would make sure that you'd have a fire watch

1:24:07 Speaker 2: to watch everything in the birthing. So like nobody who

1:24:10 Speaker 2: was on the ship could just go steal people's stuff, right,

1:24:13 Speaker 2: Nobody likes a thief. So he claims that during that

1:24:19 Speaker 2: first night off, he went out with the rest of

1:24:22 Speaker 2: the team and while he was out drinking or whatever,

1:24:25 Speaker 2: he came back and he had found his camera on

1:24:29 Speaker 2: his rack. The SD card was missing, the camera had

1:24:32 Speaker 2: been hit by like an emp or something, and it

1:24:36 Speaker 2: was just sitting waiting for him, and his wallocker was unlocked.

1:24:40 Speaker 1: Almost like a message, like it was like a message

1:24:43 Speaker 1: to him like we know what you had, and we

1:24:47 Speaker 1: like don't don't pursue this.

1:24:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what he was going with. That's what he claims, Yeah,

1:24:55 Speaker 2: so where all of that is impossible. I was the

1:25:01 Speaker 2: very first fire watch that night, so I took the

1:25:04 Speaker 2: very first shift and didn't go out that night to

1:25:08 Speaker 2: party or anything. I literally stayed in because the way

1:25:13 Speaker 2: those firewatch shift works is like once you work one,

1:25:18 Speaker 2: you're done. So like my plan was like, hey, I'm

1:25:20 Speaker 2: gonna take the first one, bite the bullet. I'm not

1:25:23 Speaker 2: gonna go party the first night, and then I'll have

1:25:24 Speaker 2: the other two days off. So I was the firewatch indisputably.

1:25:31 Speaker 2: I was the firewatch there. And I remember the guys

1:25:33 Speaker 2: on my team, David Johnson, James Williams, who were there.

1:25:37 Speaker 2: I can actually name them. He hasn't named anybody that

1:25:40 Speaker 2: was there. They actually brought me what's called blue cab

1:25:44 Speaker 2: or like blue taxi pizza from like a local pizza spot.

1:25:48 Speaker 2: They brought me a pizza because I had nothing to

1:25:51 Speaker 2: eat that night, and like I remember that in vivid

1:25:54 Speaker 2: detail of them coming back in for the night and

1:25:56 Speaker 2: bringing me that pizza. But what I'm saying is like

1:25:59 Speaker 2: I was there and nobody entered, nobody exited, no wall

1:26:04 Speaker 2: loockers were open, you know, unless they hit me with

1:26:08 Speaker 2: like the men in black like neuralizer bro. Like, it's

1:26:15 Speaker 2: impossible that anybody was in that birthing and there was

1:26:18 Speaker 2: nothing was unsecured, because if it is, if it is unsecured,

1:26:22 Speaker 2: like if I had walked back and saw his his

1:26:25 Speaker 2: like locker open, his locker open, I one would have

1:26:29 Speaker 2: secured it and two wrote it down in the book.

1:26:32 Speaker 2: Done your job, Yeah job, okay. Plus, if there was

1:26:38 Speaker 2: Randoms that I didn't recognize, like somebody from not from

1:26:41 Speaker 2: our platoon, I don't even think I would let them.

1:26:43 Speaker 1: In, right yeah, right right, this is your like quarters.

1:26:49 Speaker 2: You don't need to be in here, or I would

1:26:52 Speaker 2: have followed them around, like because people are gonna say, well,

1:26:54 Speaker 2: if it was a general, you would have let them in.

1:26:57 Speaker 2: You were just you know, a low level Like sure,

1:27:00 Speaker 2: if it was a general, I'm gonna let him in, right,

1:27:02 Speaker 2: but I'm not gonna not watch what he's doing, like

1:27:06 Speaker 2: because at that point I'd be like, why is there

1:27:09 Speaker 2: a general here?

1:27:10 Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

1:27:11 Speaker 2: Like I would just it's just impossible. Yeah, it's just

1:27:16 Speaker 2: impossible that this whole scenario went down with the camera

1:27:20 Speaker 2: and everything. So either he's sitting on these pictures or

1:27:24 Speaker 2: he never had him in the first place. That's a clip.

1:27:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, are we sure that it was that same

1:27:34 Speaker 1: day that you were on watch that this happened?

1:27:39 Speaker 2: Well, no, his own words, his own testimony is that

1:27:44 Speaker 2: he describes it as we got back. This was I

1:27:47 Speaker 2: think on the Sean Ryan Show. Let me roll up

1:27:51 Speaker 2: in my notes because I have the minute. Yeah that

1:27:55 Speaker 2: all the Uh, well no, I don't have it. What

1:27:58 Speaker 2: do you mean miss?

1:27:59 Speaker 1: And you have the time stamps of the video, right.

1:28:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what the the fifty one fifty three, fifty

1:28:06 Speaker 2: three twenty eight is.

1:28:08 Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, I'm gonna do something I usually

1:28:11 Speaker 1: wouldn't do. Let me get it pulled up because I

1:28:20 Speaker 1: don't want to get copyrighted too hard by using too

1:28:25 Speaker 1: much of this episode. Oh god, it's in my ears now,

1:28:28 Speaker 1: all right?

1:28:30 Speaker 2: Duty you know?

1:28:31 Speaker 7: Uh?

1:28:32 Speaker 2: What what what?

1:28:33 Speaker 1: What's the first time mark you want me to go to?

1:28:36 Speaker 2: So? Uh for this specific situation, it starts at one

1:28:40 Speaker 2: oh seven forty eight. He says he shows up at

1:28:43 Speaker 2: Subic Bay with this camera for three days to leave,

1:28:45 Speaker 2: which is true, as I just said. And then at

1:28:49 Speaker 2: one o eight oh nine he says, the first day

1:28:52 Speaker 2: we were in Subic, he went out, came back and

1:28:53 Speaker 2: his camera was taken, and then I put this is

1:28:55 Speaker 2: the most refutable. I was the first fire watch that night.

1:28:58 Speaker 2: One O seven. You said, uh yeah, one o seven

1:29:04 Speaker 2: and forty eight seconds.

1:29:06 Speaker 1: All right, I got that and ads playing. But I

1:29:11 Speaker 1: will bring that up and we will Sean Sean Ryan.

1:29:16 Speaker 1: Please don't, please.

1:29:18 Speaker 2: Don't don't. Don't.

1:29:20 Speaker 1: Don't do me dirty. Yeah, don't do me dirty. This

1:29:23 Speaker 1: is for educational purposes only. Copyright disclaimer. I'm using it

1:29:30 Speaker 1: in a fair use mannerism. So I'm gonna pull up

1:29:37 Speaker 1: and I would like you to go through it with us,

1:29:42 Speaker 1: exactly with what you what you can say in regards

1:29:50 Speaker 1: to his actual words. I think this will be good.

1:29:54 Speaker 1: So let's listen to Michael.

1:29:57 Speaker 6: Right.

1:29:58 Speaker 9: So it's just very out of place. So we went

1:30:02 Speaker 9: to after we concluded this operation. We ended up docking

1:30:05 Speaker 9: a stupid bay for some liberty at least like four days.

1:30:09 Speaker 9: So the people that we encountered in that event didn't

1:30:13 Speaker 9: even bother the camera or anything. It was in my dumbpouch,

1:30:16 Speaker 9: but it was small enough, so I don't know why

1:30:17 Speaker 9: they wouldn't have searched it, but they missed it. Right,

1:30:20 Speaker 9: So here I am the whole time thinking like, fucking A,

1:30:23 Speaker 9: I've got something. I'm not fucking crazy, and neither of

1:30:25 Speaker 9: us are crazy, like we've got something. Actually backs up

1:30:27 Speaker 9: if we were to tell anybody about this and we

1:30:29 Speaker 9: could show them pictures of it off of a camera

1:30:31 Speaker 9: and not something like a computer screen where they can

1:30:33 Speaker 9: doctor it, well, I spoke too soon because when we

1:30:37 Speaker 9: end up going out that that first day, we came

1:30:40 Speaker 9: back to report back to the ship, and I saw

1:30:42 Speaker 9: my camera on my rack and the memory card was

1:30:46 Speaker 9: out of it, and it was a big memory card

1:30:48 Speaker 9: and the battery was out of it, and I just

1:30:49 Speaker 9: see the camera sitting like what the fuck?

1:30:52 Speaker 6: So I checked my locker. It was secure because that's where.

1:30:54 Speaker 9: I had it, and I had some stuff on top

1:30:55 Speaker 9: of the camera in there, you know, in my locker

1:30:57 Speaker 9: that were on top of the camera, and had another

1:30:59 Speaker 9: battery in there. So I took that battery and I

1:31:01 Speaker 9: put it in there, and they wuldn't even turn the

1:31:02 Speaker 9: fuck on. And I had some people reach out to

1:31:05 Speaker 9: me that said, you know, if you had that camera

1:31:07 Speaker 9: still to this day, that they could do some data

1:31:09 Speaker 9: retrieval and may be able to pick it up. I'm like,

1:31:11 Speaker 9: but I don't have that camera. You know, I tossed

1:31:15 Speaker 9: it because the fact that I wouldn't even turn on,

1:31:17 Speaker 9: wouldn't do anything.

1:31:17 Speaker 6: Like fuck, it's just a paperweight.

1:31:19 Speaker 9: And then and of course two thousand and nine, you're

1:31:21 Speaker 9: not thinking of anything with forensics to know where they

1:31:23 Speaker 9: could do something. There was people actually willing to do that,

1:31:26 Speaker 9: which is great. So somewhere out there, somebody's got this footage.

1:31:30 Speaker 9: Somebody's got that tape because there's some reason why they

1:31:32 Speaker 9: took it. And fun fact is that the other five

1:31:35 Speaker 9: Marines that were with me, they had their phone's taken.

1:31:38 Speaker 8: Did you look at the pictures before? Did you have

1:31:42 Speaker 8: a chance.

1:31:42 Speaker 9: I know I took pictures and videos of because I

1:31:44 Speaker 9: saw the record thing and I actually can snap the

1:31:46 Speaker 9: photos and you can see like a blink.

1:31:49 Speaker 6: But I knew for a.

1:31:50 Speaker 8: Fact, But you didn't go back and review them. Okay, no, no,

1:31:55 Speaker 8: why not?

1:31:56 Speaker 6: Why I didn't see it when anybody's seen Okay.

1:32:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's flaky. If I had undeniable fucking evidence

1:32:08 Speaker 1: that I had a a UFO for all intensive purposes

1:32:13 Speaker 1: lack of a better term, if you will, I would look.

1:32:17 Speaker 1: There's nothing that would stop me.

1:32:19 Speaker 2: From looking at this picture that I took.

1:32:21 Speaker 1: Especially if I was disarmed by an elite kill squad

1:32:28 Speaker 1: and they missed the fucking camera of all things to miss,

1:32:35 Speaker 1: I would be like, you fucking idiots, you let me

1:32:40 Speaker 1: get away with this camera.

1:32:42 Speaker 2: You're fucked, You're cooked.

1:32:44 Speaker 1: If I'm not gonna burn this jungle down, I'm gonna

1:32:47 Speaker 1: burn your operation down, right.

1:32:49 Speaker 2: Yeah. Why wouldn't he take it out with him, or

1:32:52 Speaker 2: why wouldn't he come to the fire watch and be like, hey,

1:32:55 Speaker 2: you know about somebody stealing my camera? Can you watch

1:32:58 Speaker 2: my shit for me? That's like, hey, Tim, can you

1:33:00 Speaker 2: put this in your pocket while I go out and drink,

1:33:03 Speaker 2: Like it's my camera. I don't want it to be

1:33:05 Speaker 2: fucked up? Or hey, hold this SD card or that

1:33:08 Speaker 2: fit with the s D card in his pocket or whatever.

1:33:12 Speaker 2: I mean, I had the same kind of camera as him.

1:33:15 Speaker 2: He's old, like two thousand and nine, but kind of

1:33:17 Speaker 2: the first digital cameras look like this.

1:33:20 Speaker 1: Look at this picture, though, if I'm assuming you took

1:33:23 Speaker 1: this picture with a similar style.

1:33:24 Speaker 2: No, I'm I'm in that picture. Somebody was using my camera,

1:33:28 Speaker 2: so I'm I'm the guy on the left.

1:33:30 Speaker 1: I know, I know, I'm assuming this is the quality

1:33:34 Speaker 1: of the camera that.

1:33:35 Speaker 2: You were using, and he was yes, so that that

1:33:38 Speaker 2: was actually taking about three four months before Indonesia during

1:33:42 Speaker 2: our training workup.

1:33:44 Speaker 1: So it's a good one for reference here. Actually, this

1:33:47 Speaker 1: one is good for reference too.

1:33:50 Speaker 2: Look in the sky.

1:33:53 Speaker 1: If a three hundred foot craft was there instead of

1:33:57 Speaker 1: that helicopter and it was even you know what, let's

1:34:00 Speaker 1: push it back to the tree line. Even here the

1:34:06 Speaker 1: mountains in the background. If a three hundred foot craft

1:34:09 Speaker 1: was sitting above that mountain and we were we had

1:34:12 Speaker 1: a camera like this, the detail would be undeniable, undeniable.

1:34:20 Speaker 2: Even back then.

1:34:21 Speaker 1: This these aren't the best pictures, but if there's a

1:34:24 Speaker 1: three hundred foot craft and he knows he shot it,

1:34:29 Speaker 1: he would have undeniable proof. The you can look out clearly,

1:34:32 Speaker 1: you can see the mountains in the in the background,

1:34:35 Speaker 1: in the foreground, you see all the detail. Like these

1:34:38 Speaker 1: cameras in two thousand and nine weren't the best, but

1:34:40 Speaker 1: they weren't shitty. They weren't shitty. No, again, a three

1:34:46 Speaker 1: hundred three hundred foot craft place it as far to

1:34:50 Speaker 1: the horizon as you can in this picture, and you

1:34:54 Speaker 1: would still see a pretty decent size probably you know,

1:34:58 Speaker 1: similar to maybe the guy in the background that's walking

1:35:03 Speaker 1: the size of his head. There would be a black

1:35:07 Speaker 1: craft in the background about the size of his head,

1:35:09 Speaker 1: and in the back in the back. So these cameras

1:35:12 Speaker 1: are able to show foreground background detail. This is my specialty.

1:35:17 Speaker 1: If he had photos of being that close to a

1:35:21 Speaker 1: three hundred foot craft, it some of the time it

1:35:26 Speaker 1: might not even fit in frame, so he would have

1:35:30 Speaker 1: a clear clear view.

1:35:32 Speaker 2: How big you think this ship is huge?

1:35:40 Speaker 1: Specifically how many feet were rough ast nd nd.

1:35:48 Speaker 2: It's three times people on that ship, so you know

1:35:52 Speaker 2: what I mean, Like put into.

1:35:53 Speaker 1: Perspective, it's it's three times the size of that ship

1:35:56 Speaker 1: that is pretty far away in this picture, right, it's

1:36:00 Speaker 1: pretty far away. It's not close, like it's close, but

1:36:03 Speaker 1: it's not close close. So again, move that ship back

1:36:08 Speaker 1: and it's three times the size of that You could

1:36:12 Speaker 1: move that back almost halfway to the horizon and you

1:36:15 Speaker 1: would still be picking up pretty good detail.

1:36:18 Speaker 2: So again I just want to go and say that.

1:36:21 Speaker 1: These cameras are able to produce a pretty good picture

1:36:24 Speaker 1: even under duress. You know, if he's videotaping it, he

1:36:27 Speaker 1: would have some pretty smoking gun footage so that you know,

1:36:33 Speaker 1: again that would be the reason for me to believe

1:36:38 Speaker 1: that's why they came and got this camera. Right, But

1:36:41 Speaker 1: what you're saying is it logically couldn't have happened.

1:36:45 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it's not logical for so many reasons. One,

1:36:49 Speaker 2: how do they know? How do they know about this camera?

1:36:52 Speaker 2: If they never found it on him? He said in

1:36:57 Speaker 2: that clip it was too small and it was hitting

1:36:59 Speaker 2: or what ever, and they didn't find it, So how

1:37:02 Speaker 2: did they know about it? How did they know to

1:37:04 Speaker 2: send anybody about it?

1:37:05 Speaker 8: Shit?

1:37:08 Speaker 2: And then even if they did know, say they're like

1:37:10 Speaker 2: mystical creatures and omniscient and knew about it, how did

1:37:16 Speaker 2: they get past me? How did they unlock his thing? How?

1:37:19 Speaker 4: Like?

1:37:19 Speaker 2: How did they know when he was going out? Specifically,

1:37:22 Speaker 2: how did they know they weren't going to open the

1:37:23 Speaker 2: door and find him sitting on firewatch right? And then

1:37:27 Speaker 2: he would fight? Why didn't he take it with him?

1:37:29 Speaker 2: Why didn't he take the SD card? Why didn't he

1:37:33 Speaker 2: separate the two? Why didn't he put it?

1:37:35 Speaker 4: Like?

1:37:35 Speaker 2: Why didn't I had a camera? As you saw, I

1:37:38 Speaker 2: took a picture of him that that picture of him

1:37:40 Speaker 2: I took. So it's like, why didn't he say, hey,

1:37:42 Speaker 2: Tim can we swap SD cards.

1:37:47 Speaker 1: Honestly and and going back to your training. I know

1:37:50 Speaker 1: you guys aren't intelligence, but would you be smart enough

1:37:55 Speaker 1: to pull like say, say this operation happened to you you,

1:38:01 Speaker 1: let's flip this. Say you're Michael and and you have

1:38:07 Speaker 1: this SD card. You barely escaped with your life, but

1:38:11 Speaker 1: you have smoking gun evidence of it, and everyone around

1:38:18 Speaker 1: you is suppressing it, suppressing the story. They don't want

1:38:22 Speaker 1: anybody to know. Would you leave it in the barracks

1:38:27 Speaker 1: that night or what would tactally? Tactfully, would you hand

1:38:32 Speaker 1: it off to someone you trust, say, put it in

1:38:35 Speaker 1: your card, you know, don't ask questions, put it in

1:38:39 Speaker 1: your camera, put your camera away, right you know you

1:38:43 Speaker 1: were not there, Like this is what you've got to

1:38:45 Speaker 1: be thinking.

1:38:46 Speaker 2: The level of trust and brotherhood we have. If he

1:38:49 Speaker 2: had came to me and said, hey, take this card

1:38:53 Speaker 2: and like swap me as D cards and don't ask

1:38:55 Speaker 2: any questions, I would have done it for him. I

1:38:58 Speaker 2: would have said, Roger that like I got you, bro,

1:39:01 Speaker 2: Like you know, there were so many other avenues he

1:39:04 Speaker 2: could have done other than hey, I hid this in

1:39:07 Speaker 2: my storage locker plus deep so I don't even know

1:39:12 Speaker 2: how he layered it underneath there, like our storage lockers

1:39:15 Speaker 2: are actually our bed like they flip up, like your

1:39:19 Speaker 2: bed flips up, and you have like a tiny shallow

1:39:23 Speaker 2: locker to put stuff. But I mean there there's so

1:39:26 Speaker 2: many other avenues and like Herrera like tape, like you know,

1:39:31 Speaker 2: like a locker room. No, because these are just temporary.

1:39:37 Speaker 2: These are just temporary birthings. It's not like this is his,

1:39:40 Speaker 2: like this is the rack that he stayed in. But

1:39:43 Speaker 2: like as Marines, we're just visitors on the ship. We're

1:39:45 Speaker 2: pretty much this cargo.

1:39:47 Speaker 3: You know.

1:39:48 Speaker 2: That's why the you know, the Navy guys always say

1:39:50 Speaker 2: marine stands for my ass rides and Navy equipment. Yeah,

1:39:54 Speaker 2: you know, because like so it's not like it's labeled

1:39:57 Speaker 2: Herrera perfectly. That's the other thing. This guy would have

1:40:01 Speaker 2: to know which was his rack or anybody else.

1:40:04 Speaker 1: That's where I'm getting That's where I'm going with this

1:40:06 Speaker 1: is if it wasn't clearly defined which rack was his,

1:40:10 Speaker 1: they would have to have an intimate knowledge of your

1:40:13 Speaker 1: temporary assignment, like like layout, they would have to have

1:40:20 Speaker 1: They would have to be able to get past you unnoticed.

1:40:25 Speaker 1: A general would have to get past you unnoticed. Know

1:40:29 Speaker 1: the layout of a temporary you know, like like temporary

1:40:36 Speaker 1: barrack situation where nothing is defined, like you know, it

1:40:40 Speaker 1: was just kind of like put your stuff here and

1:40:42 Speaker 1: this is where you are, you know, let's get out there.

1:40:46 Speaker 1: For someone visiting, that's a lot of foreknowledge of something

1:40:49 Speaker 1: that that that happened pretty quickly was was turned on.

1:40:54 Speaker 1: So again, I I see what you're saying. Uh, that's

1:40:59 Speaker 1: not this say. I don't think it's implausible, but I

1:41:02 Speaker 1: do think if they didn't know where he was, where

1:41:05 Speaker 1: his where his quarters were, maybe more lockers would have

1:41:09 Speaker 1: been open, maybe all of them would have been open,

1:41:12 Speaker 1: because they would have searched the whole fucking place. If

1:41:18 Speaker 1: and and the other guy's phones is that ever? Did

1:41:22 Speaker 1: anyone ever talk to you about, hey, am, my phone's missing.

1:41:26 Speaker 4: No.

1:41:27 Speaker 2: And the other thing is most guys didn't have phones.

1:41:31 Speaker 2: I didn't bring my phone. That's why I had my

1:41:33 Speaker 2: camera in the first place. Because the thing is I

1:41:36 Speaker 2: had no service over there. It was either you pay

1:41:38 Speaker 2: like five hundred bucks a month for glows serving.

1:41:41 Speaker 1: Back in roaming times.

1:41:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, it.

1:41:46 Speaker 1: Would cost a fuck ton of money to be a.

1:41:50 Speaker 2: Lance corporal making a thousand bucks a month or some ship,

1:41:53 Speaker 2: Like I'm not fucking I had a phone and I

1:41:58 Speaker 2: turned it off. Actually this funny story. I asked my

1:42:01 Speaker 2: grandma to call Sprints as I was like flying out

1:42:04 Speaker 2: to go on this deployment, and she didn't call Sprint.

1:42:08 Speaker 2: So then I didn't pay my bill for like four months.

1:42:12 Speaker 2: And I still to this day have a bill from Sprint,

1:42:16 Speaker 2: like now T Mobile or whatever that I own five

1:42:18 Speaker 2: hundred dollars. Like they try to claim that I owe

1:42:23 Speaker 2: them because I never shut off my phone or whatever,

1:42:26 Speaker 2: but I didn't realize they wasn't shut off because when

1:42:28 Speaker 2: I got to Okinawa, I just put it in, you know,

1:42:33 Speaker 2: in my actual like birthing or whatever. Rights. Like we

1:42:38 Speaker 2: actually had living quarters back in Okinawa on Campanson, Yeah,

1:42:44 Speaker 2: like our home base for the deployment, but we didn't

1:42:47 Speaker 2: have assigned quarters or anything when we were on the ship.

1:42:51 Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is like I didn't have my phone.

1:42:53 Speaker 2: Most of the guys I knew didn't have their phones.

1:42:55 Speaker 2: Hell at that time, I didn't even have a smartphone.

1:42:58 Speaker 2: I had like ahes Uh. I didn't have the flip phone.

1:43:03 Speaker 2: I had the crappy like Nokio one that was like

1:43:05 Speaker 2: a just like a little brick.

1:43:07 Speaker 1: I don't know, like oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah,

1:43:10 Speaker 1: uh oh yeah, oh yeah your brick time. So these

1:43:15 Speaker 1: didn't even take photos.

1:43:18 Speaker 2: I mean, like the I think the like really fancy

1:43:21 Speaker 2: BlackBerry ones did But I mean this was like.

1:43:25 Speaker 1: What year did smartphones start having cameras?

1:43:34 Speaker 2: The first camera phone was was?

1:43:36 Speaker 1: Oh what the first camera phone was released in nineteen

1:43:40 Speaker 1: ninety nine, But by the beginning of twenty ten, almost

1:43:46 Speaker 1: all smartphones had integrated digital cameras. But that's a year

1:43:51 Speaker 1: after yeah, deployment, so few cameras, had few phones cameras

1:44:00 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, is what.

1:44:01 Speaker 2: But I mean even if they did have cameras, they

1:44:04 Speaker 2: had no service for sure, nobody, but you can use

1:44:08 Speaker 2: you can still use the camera. You see what I'm saying. Sure,

1:44:11 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not trying to say you could. Nobody

1:44:16 Speaker 2: took pictures on their camera. I don't. Nobody had. Well,

1:44:19 Speaker 2: when I've been talking to them, nobody has mentioned that

1:44:23 Speaker 2: my phone, miss oh nobody. If somebody was missing a phone,

1:44:27 Speaker 2: they would have told the firewatch, Hey, where the hell

1:44:29 Speaker 2: is my phone.

1:44:31 Speaker 1: You would have had people come up to you, and

1:44:34 Speaker 1: that would have been odd, right, You would have had five,

1:44:37 Speaker 1: five separate people come up to you and say, hey,

1:44:41 Speaker 1: my phone's missing, and then one guy saying, hey my

1:44:47 Speaker 1: camera's missing, and you know it was left out on

1:44:50 Speaker 1: my bed and like this.

1:44:51 Speaker 2: I mean, they probably would have like charged me for

1:44:54 Speaker 2: negligence if I missed nine people or five people's phones

1:44:58 Speaker 2: and cameras going missing.

1:45:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably didn't do your You didn't earn that pizza.

1:45:03 Speaker 1: If that's the case, you did not earn that so okay, okay, And.

1:45:12 Speaker 2: Just so everybody knows too, there's no back door into

1:45:16 Speaker 2: these birthings. They're a single like separated, like modular room

1:45:21 Speaker 2: with one door, so it's not like they like snuck

1:45:24 Speaker 2: in the back or came in through the roof. I

1:45:27 Speaker 2: mean we're in the bowel of the ship too, so

1:45:28 Speaker 2: it's not like they snuck through a vent or something.

1:45:32 Speaker 2: And I was just watching a movie and didn't see it, Like, oh,

1:45:39 Speaker 2: it's impossible.

1:45:40 Speaker 1: There's a comment that you just can't wherever it isn't

1:45:42 Speaker 1: the only whistleblower to encounter American black commandos using exotic propulsion.

1:45:49 Speaker 1: I want to address this, m But that's why it

1:45:56 Speaker 1: makes the story somewhat believable, because we've heard.

1:46:01 Speaker 2: About stuff like this before.

1:46:06 Speaker 1: It wasn't until doctor Greer's National Press Club event in

1:46:11 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four where the public first

1:46:16 Speaker 1: heard about the story. We don't really know how long

1:46:21 Speaker 1: Michael had to formulate this or to think upon it right.

1:46:29 Speaker 1: If it is true, he had a lot of time

1:46:32 Speaker 1: to get those details right, but he also had a

1:46:36 Speaker 1: lot of time to forget certain details. Not that this

1:46:39 Speaker 1: is something that you'd forget, but what I'm saying is

1:46:43 Speaker 1: he also had a lot of time but between two

1:46:45 Speaker 1: thousand and nine in twenty twenty to kind of read

1:46:51 Speaker 1: up on cases that have happened.

1:46:54 Speaker 2: So we have to in order to be.

1:46:59 Speaker 1: Journalistic integral and have integrity journalistically, we need to understand

1:47:06 Speaker 1: that there's a huge gap of time. Horrera is a

1:47:10 Speaker 1: smart guy. He's a smart guy. He's a business man now, Yeah,

1:47:17 Speaker 1: and he loves his Rolexes. Isn't his fancy cars?

1:47:22 Speaker 2: Guys? We have to think about that. We have this

1:47:27 Speaker 2: whistle blow by the way, Like I'm interested.

1:47:31 Speaker 1: Well, you get you'll get speaker fees, and you'll get

1:47:34 Speaker 1: on the podcast circuit and you'll get you might not

1:47:37 Speaker 1: get monetarily famous, but then you know, in the business world, like.

1:47:45 Speaker 2: You can turn it.

1:47:46 Speaker 1: Into something like the current whistleblowers are all kind of

1:47:51 Speaker 1: like like the quote unquote real ones, like the Matthew Browns,

1:47:55 Speaker 1: the Dylan Borlan's, Like they're actually all talking about how

1:48:00 Speaker 1: it is to find a job now that they've come forward. Right,

1:48:03 Speaker 1: that's real world implication. Michael right now is doing better

1:48:09 Speaker 1: than he ever has. He's got rolexes, he's got nice cars.

1:48:13 Speaker 2: He sends me.

1:48:14 Speaker 1: He when I was interviewing him, he's sending me pictures

1:48:17 Speaker 1: of all this stuff and how and he was using

1:48:19 Speaker 1: that as why would I come forward with this story

1:48:23 Speaker 1: knowing all I have to lose? But you just got

1:48:27 Speaker 1: all this. So again I'm not again staying neutral. Backing up,

1:48:33 Speaker 1: I need to understand that there's a lot of time

1:48:35 Speaker 1: for Michael to kind of catch up, catch himself up.

1:48:41 Speaker 1: And now I'm seeing what you're saying about stolen valor

1:48:45 Speaker 1: because to create this story out of thin air and

1:48:48 Speaker 1: then tell it as as an as like a someone

1:48:53 Speaker 1: who's a service member at the time, like that's an

1:48:58 Speaker 1: act of war on our country, by our own country.

1:49:02 Speaker 1: It sounds like to do something like that to a

1:49:06 Speaker 1: group of Marines, that's that's treason at the.

1:49:11 Speaker 2: So many there's just so many ways that it's just

1:49:14 Speaker 2: totally impossible, like tactically, like how many men did happen

1:49:22 Speaker 2: like that? Well it changed in the news. Let me

1:49:28 Speaker 2: roll up.

1:49:29 Speaker 1: Is there any other clip from Sean that we want

1:49:31 Speaker 1: to pull up?

1:49:33 Speaker 2: Oh?

1:49:33 Speaker 3: Uh?

1:49:34 Speaker 2: Let me.

1:49:38 Speaker 1: Because again, like what I mean, what is he saying

1:49:41 Speaker 1: that these this group is what?

1:49:43 Speaker 2: What are they?

1:49:44 Speaker 1: What are they? Are?

1:49:45 Speaker 2: They?

1:49:46 Speaker 1: Are they American? Are they are they contractors? I think

1:49:51 Speaker 1: that's what we've all come to think, is that it

1:49:53 Speaker 1: was some sort of like you.

1:49:55 Speaker 2: Know, yeah change so twenty seven to and the Sean

1:50:01 Speaker 2: Ryan I labeled this Originally he said that there was

1:50:04 Speaker 2: eight men that took him down, two on each marine

1:50:08 Speaker 2: and then three searching. It's my house burning down.

1:50:14 Speaker 8: She's gonna say heart attack.

1:50:21 Speaker 2: Yeah. I heard a siren and was.

1:50:23 Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't have no ads on YouTube,

1:50:27 Speaker 1: so I have to wait. I have to wait for

1:50:30 Speaker 1: the ad to play to bring it up on screen.

1:50:33 Speaker 2: But that's hilarious.

1:50:34 Speaker 1: You can hear that.

1:50:34 Speaker 2: You're like, oh ship is my fucking I was burned down?

1:50:38 Speaker 2: Well no, earlier, my my friend he was coming by

1:50:41 Speaker 2: to pick up like a couch or something, and like

1:50:44 Speaker 2: was knocking on the door, and that's why I was

1:50:45 Speaker 2: like looking or whatever. I was trying to tell him, like,

1:50:48 Speaker 2: hey man, I'm on this podcast. I can't just like leave,

1:50:52 Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, well if you need to know, we can.

1:50:57 Speaker 2: It's all good. But yeah, he said that there was eight.

1:51:00 Speaker 2: But then just like he says, there's two on each

1:51:03 Speaker 2: marine and three searching, so that would be fifteen. I

1:51:06 Speaker 2: mean that, So according to him, it's either eight or fifteen.

1:51:09 Speaker 2: And then I think he changed it in the News

1:51:11 Speaker 2: Max or the News Nation, the one that you were

1:51:15 Speaker 2: showing earlier. I think he said it was like twenty

1:51:19 Speaker 2: or something in that one. Uh well, this is yeah,

1:51:26 Speaker 2: that's I know. He says it's eight. It's eight again,

1:51:29 Speaker 2: So tell me this. WHI are in his story six

1:51:33 Speaker 2: marines loaded for bear surrendering to eight guys. I could, like,

1:51:40 Speaker 2: I feel like me and six of my guys could

1:51:42 Speaker 2: have taken eight dudes in a fight, probably get shot

1:51:46 Speaker 2: to shit at least a couple of people, but you

1:51:48 Speaker 2: would have put up a fight. I would have thought.

1:51:51 Speaker 2: There's it's easy to say that in.

1:51:56 Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, Like, Okay, sure, I

1:51:59 Speaker 1: worked at a I worked at a dunkin Donuts when

1:52:01 Speaker 1: I was younger. Anyone on Actually they're nationwide now, right,

1:52:06 Speaker 1: dunkin Donuts? Yeah, yeah, that was like a New England.

1:52:10 Speaker 1: You know, that's always been a New England staple. So

1:52:13 Speaker 1: I worked at a dunkin Donuts when I was like

1:52:17 Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen.

1:52:19 Speaker 2: And I got robbed.

1:52:21 Speaker 1: I got robbed at gunpoint.

1:52:23 Speaker 2: Right.

1:52:24 Speaker 1: The dunkin Donuts was one of those ones. It was

1:52:27 Speaker 1: next to a mall, like it was. It wasn't connected

1:52:30 Speaker 1: to the mall, but it was next to a mall

1:52:33 Speaker 1: that was off on a major highway. So the Duncans

1:52:36 Speaker 1: was right next to the exit onto the highway or

1:52:40 Speaker 1: the entrance onto the highway, and the mall was right there.

1:52:43 Speaker 1: It's a very this is Christmas time, people get very desperate.

1:52:49 Speaker 1: This guy walks into the dunks, trench coat hat pulled down,

1:52:54 Speaker 1: looking like he was out.

1:52:55 Speaker 2: Of a fucking town like the movie The Town.

1:52:58 Speaker 1: And I remember saying to myself, I go, this guy

1:53:01 Speaker 1: looks like he's gonna fucking rob me, and then comes

1:53:04 Speaker 1: up to the counter. Long story short, he goes, I'll

1:53:07 Speaker 1: take a cup of whatever, I'll a donut. So I

1:53:12 Speaker 1: go to get everything right. And then I come back

1:53:15 Speaker 1: and he has a he's got one of these. He's

1:53:19 Speaker 1: not showing me the gun, right, but he says, I

1:53:23 Speaker 1: have a gun. Give me all the because he like

1:53:27 Speaker 1: added it to his order. It kind of sounds funny

1:53:29 Speaker 1: in retrospect, but he was like, yeah, give me a me.

1:53:32 Speaker 1: He literally took the fucking coffee too, I swear to God.

1:53:35 Speaker 2: But he's doing this like one of these under the

1:53:39 Speaker 2: shirt things. And I was the gun to.

1:53:42 Speaker 1: Ask, hey, show me the gun's real. But so he

1:53:46 Speaker 1: asked for all the money in the drawer and I

1:53:48 Speaker 1: literally laughed. I go haha, and he was like, no,

1:53:52 Speaker 1: I'm serious. And then that's when he like stuck the

1:53:55 Speaker 1: He like did that to me and I was like,

1:53:59 Speaker 1: oh shit, this is real. And he made me put

1:54:01 Speaker 1: my hands on the counter, opened the draw well, no,

1:54:05 Speaker 1: he made me open the drawer get all the money out.

1:54:08 Speaker 1: He didn't want to change originally. Then he wanted the quarters.

1:54:12 Speaker 1: So it was very confusing. It's a it's a you

1:54:15 Speaker 1: go into this like fight or flight mode, and I

1:54:19 Speaker 1: would admit that I I was in that fight mode,

1:54:24 Speaker 1: but I'm not fighting. I'm giving him what he wants, right,

1:54:27 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm engaging. I could have run and he

1:54:31 Speaker 1: would have just hopped the counter, But who knows what

1:54:33 Speaker 1: I would have been killed, So I'm just going along

1:54:36 Speaker 1: with that. That money's insured.

1:54:37 Speaker 2: I'm not. My life is not.

1:54:39 Speaker 1: So everyone I tell that story too, they go, I

1:54:45 Speaker 1: would have I would have fucking.

1:54:47 Speaker 2: Jumped the counter.

1:54:48 Speaker 1: I would have Okay, easy to fucking say that, dude,

1:54:52 Speaker 1: have a gut again, And when someone told me this,

1:54:57 Speaker 1: they go, I would have asked him. I would have

1:54:59 Speaker 1: tell show me the gun. Shut the fuck up. You're

1:55:03 Speaker 1: gonna say that, Shut the fuck up. You're gonna say

1:55:06 Speaker 1: I'm a sixteen year old kid, and so are you

1:55:09 Speaker 1: the kid who was telling me that he would have

1:55:11 Speaker 1: done it. I'm like, you would't have done shit just

1:55:13 Speaker 1: like I did. So again, it's easy to say I

1:55:18 Speaker 1: would have fought. I would have done this. I would

1:55:20 Speaker 1: have done that. But I want to hear your genuine

1:55:24 Speaker 1: if you were in that situation, would you have put

1:55:28 Speaker 1: a fight up?

1:55:30 Speaker 2: I would have fought, And are you serious to yes?

1:55:34 Speaker 2: But to qualify your thing, right, you're sixteen and you've

1:55:38 Speaker 2: likely not been in that many adverse scenarios before. A

1:55:42 Speaker 2: person on this team is a trained US Marine infantryman,

1:55:48 Speaker 2: not a US Marine cook. A US Marine infantryman. We

1:55:53 Speaker 2: are trained in hand to hand shooting, tactics, battle like

1:56:01 Speaker 2: our counter job in life is warfare with other units

1:56:09 Speaker 2: of people. That is literally our job. I mean, we're

1:56:12 Speaker 2: literally thrown into scenarios where you know, they try to

1:56:20 Speaker 2: breed that freezer flight out of you. That's the whole

1:56:25 Speaker 2: point of going to boot camp and infantry training and

1:56:27 Speaker 2: doing this stuff, six months of training before this deployment,

1:56:30 Speaker 2: of just running and shooting and doing all sorts of

1:56:33 Speaker 2: stuff so that when you're in that scenario and you

1:56:36 Speaker 2: can't think straight, you do what you're trained to do,

1:56:39 Speaker 2: which is to fight. So, I mean, it doesn't even

1:56:41 Speaker 2: make sense. Plus, he claims that they were walking in

1:56:45 Speaker 2: a tactical column right now, is not exactly sure if

1:56:50 Speaker 2: you know what that means. But let me draw this

1:56:53 Speaker 2: out for you. Right, So in a tactical column, right,

1:56:57 Speaker 2: you move in and dispersed pattern like this down the road. Okay,

1:57:06 Speaker 2: so you're you have about ten feet of separation in

1:57:11 Speaker 2: a tactical column, or if it's a close column, like

1:57:13 Speaker 2: five feet between you and the next person. So this

1:57:16 Speaker 2: person would be like the one man, the point man,

1:57:19 Speaker 2: the two man, all the way down, and then each

1:57:21 Speaker 2: person has their own sector of fire that they're like

1:57:27 Speaker 2: responsible for looking at, so you don't get so like

1:57:31 Speaker 2: each person has their own little sector of fire. I

1:57:33 Speaker 2: don't know if you can see this. Well, each has

1:57:35 Speaker 2: their own little sector of fire so that you can't

1:57:38 Speaker 2: be ambushed. Right. But here's the thing. The space between

1:57:42 Speaker 2: the one man and the two man is like twenty

1:57:46 Speaker 2: thirty feet. So one of the things that I put

1:57:48 Speaker 2: in my notes always is if what he said is

1:57:51 Speaker 2: true and they're moving in a tactical column, he says

1:57:54 Speaker 2: that they get ambushed from the side like this, right

1:57:59 Speaker 2: in an interlocking field of fire. Right, So if they

1:58:03 Speaker 2: were attacked in an interlocking field of fire, right, even

1:58:07 Speaker 2: if they were being fired upon, right, this dude's like

1:58:11 Speaker 2: twenty feet away, even if you didn't have radios, which

1:58:14 Speaker 2: you would. Why doesn't this dude just run twenty feet back,

1:58:19 Speaker 2: grab the rest of the dudes and come back. Why

1:58:22 Speaker 2: is he not running away to go grab some other people.

1:58:26 Speaker 2: Why are these dudes not trying to maneuver around and

1:58:28 Speaker 2: fight at all? Why did six people in a line

1:58:32 Speaker 2: walk all together because he claims they were in a

1:58:35 Speaker 2: line being searched and whatnot? How did this become this? Wow?

1:58:42 Speaker 2: It just doesn't make any sense. A makes so senseactically.

1:58:46 Speaker 1: Wow?

1:58:47 Speaker 2: And can you put that drawing back up? Can you? Sorry?

1:58:50 Speaker 2: It's it's like a mess.

1:58:52 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no, no, this is actually

1:58:54 Speaker 1: there is this is actually good stuff. Now how did

1:58:58 Speaker 1: they go back to? Like how they got them to

1:59:03 Speaker 1: the line right? How would they have done this? How

1:59:07 Speaker 1: many people attack Horrera's squad? You said about eight?

1:59:12 Speaker 2: He he claims it's eight.

1:59:14 Speaker 1: Can you show me on that paper how they attacked

1:59:18 Speaker 1: or how.

1:59:18 Speaker 2: He claims according to Yeah, okay, yeah, so let me

1:59:24 Speaker 2: get it different. I love it. So hold on, I

1:59:29 Speaker 2: want to roll back. Do you want me to play

1:59:32 Speaker 2: that clip while while Yeah, maybe you should play the

1:59:35 Speaker 2: play the clip here, Yeah.

1:59:36 Speaker 1: I'll play the clip while you draw this out and

1:59:39 Speaker 1: kind of get us ready for it to kind of

1:59:43 Speaker 1: be broken down after the fact. I want this episode

1:59:46 Speaker 1: to be a kind of I'm not doing no two parts.

1:59:49 Speaker 1: Like my name is Joey. I know I respect him,

1:59:52 Speaker 1: I really do. But we're getting this all of this

1:59:55 Speaker 1: information out now. No, no, no, I want this to

2:00:00 Speaker 1: be an omnibus and I want people to be able

2:00:04 Speaker 1: to come here and say, Okay, this is the other side.

2:00:07 Speaker 1: This is the other side to this story.

2:00:11 Speaker 2: So I think it's at twenty four to twenty five.

2:00:14 Speaker 2: I have Mark down here. He says he was in

2:00:16 Speaker 2: a column. And then I in my notes, but a

2:00:20 Speaker 2: six man element wouldn't move in a column. Right, tactical column,

2:00:25 Speaker 2: he says, our stagger column would have the rear man

2:00:28 Speaker 2: at about fifty twenty to fifty meters from the front man.

2:00:31 Speaker 2: If ambush, the rear man could have retreated. That's what

2:00:33 Speaker 2: I mentioned, right right.

2:00:35 Speaker 1: And then.

2:00:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's around that time they describe how he

2:00:43 Speaker 2: was taken down. So if you want to play that part,

2:00:46 Speaker 2: I will draw both how he claims that they were

2:00:50 Speaker 2: taken down and like what the actual real tactic would

2:00:53 Speaker 2: have been. Okay, three, I can't hear it. Can you

2:01:10 Speaker 2: hear it?

2:01:29 Speaker 8: About of blue on blue situation exactly? Okay?

2:01:34 Speaker 6: So you know what that being said? Because of how

2:01:37 Speaker 6: smooth this operation was.

2:01:39 Speaker 9: So when we were in a tactical this thing, they

2:01:43 Speaker 9: actually came from the flanks, but it was more of

2:01:44 Speaker 9: a diagonal like the corner of the room, so to speak,

2:01:47 Speaker 9: right for them, and a tactical advantage. They have interlocking

2:01:50 Speaker 9: fields of fire on every single person and they had

2:01:52 Speaker 9: a team of eight, right, and the gear that they

2:01:55 Speaker 9: had was black O TV vest.

2:01:56 Speaker 6: They had black camouflage utilities.

2:01:58 Speaker 8: So what you're saying is there was there have been

2:02:00 Speaker 8: no mechs. They were professionals. Yeah, it would have been

2:02:02 Speaker 8: no Mexican standoff or if they fired, they're shooting into

2:02:05 Speaker 8: their other squad. They had they had perfect angle. Yes,

2:02:09 Speaker 8: they did to where both sides could engage you.

2:02:11 Speaker 6: Yes, team of four, team of four, so it was

2:02:13 Speaker 6: like a fire team element.

2:02:14 Speaker 8: Without worrying about a blue on blue situation exactly.

2:02:18 Speaker 9: Okay, So you know, with that being said, because as

2:02:22 Speaker 9: they as they approached us to hear the safeties flip off.

2:02:27 Speaker 6: Now your attention to detail.

2:02:28 Speaker 9: When you're seeing this kind of stuff, your sensors are

2:02:30 Speaker 9: very heightened, so you can pick up I know you've

2:02:32 Speaker 9: been a combat and you know you know all about that.

2:02:34 Speaker 9: Your heightened sense of awareness is going through astronomical changes.

2:02:39 Speaker 8: To a provigilant.

2:02:40 Speaker 9: Yes, so you can hear stuff a lot clearer, and

2:02:44 Speaker 9: that's where you kind of picked up the hum that

2:02:46 Speaker 9: this object was doing along with these guys flipping their

2:02:48 Speaker 9: safeties off, especially in four's.

2:02:50 Speaker 6: You know, it's very distinct sound.

2:02:51 Speaker 9: Anybody in this room who's held M fours and has

2:02:53 Speaker 9: shot them in sixteen things like that, it's very distinct

2:02:56 Speaker 9: sound to flipping it off.

2:02:58 Speaker 6: So we kind of knew, and they started yelling at us,

2:03:01 Speaker 6: you know, they were like, you know, you're not supposed

2:03:03 Speaker 6: to fucking be here. What the fuck are you guys

2:03:04 Speaker 6: doing here? Who the fuck are you with? You know,

2:03:06 Speaker 6: so they knew.

2:03:07 Speaker 9: They were using the kind of lingo that we were

2:03:09 Speaker 9: used to, especially in the military. So it made me

2:03:12 Speaker 9: think that at some point these guys actually were uniform military.

2:03:15 Speaker 6: At one point.

2:03:16 Speaker 9: Any accents, non accents, it's just like American dialects. How

2:03:20 Speaker 9: you and I are talking very you know, they're At

2:03:23 Speaker 9: one point they said, we're going to smoke us. They

2:03:24 Speaker 9: could throw us out of a helicopter.

2:03:26 Speaker 6: They could.

2:03:26 Speaker 9: It's very easy to get lost in the jungle out here,

2:03:28 Speaker 9: you know. They kept staying stuff like that. So after

2:03:31 Speaker 9: they enveloped us, they all pretty much got online. They

2:03:35 Speaker 9: told us to put our weapons, so we all got

2:03:36 Speaker 9: online as well, and we had our hands up, we

2:03:38 Speaker 9: had a weapon slung, and they're having two guys watch

2:03:43 Speaker 9: while there's a guy basically taking our magazines out of

2:03:45 Speaker 9: our vest and they're throwing them on the deck and

2:03:48 Speaker 9: they're kicking them away, so we don't have time to react.

2:03:50 Speaker 9: They also, at the same time, the first thing they

2:03:52 Speaker 9: did was obviously take our weapon and clear it, but

2:03:54 Speaker 9: they took the magazine out and they actually held it

2:03:57 Speaker 9: in a way to where they could pull a charging

2:03:58 Speaker 9: handle and collect around and have it not at the deck,

2:04:00 Speaker 9: so they The way that these guys operated was very smooth.

2:04:03 Speaker 6: It's very calculated, very precise.

2:04:05 Speaker 9: You could tell they've done this a lot of They

2:04:07 Speaker 9: rehearsed a lot, you know, especially combat operations you're doing

2:04:09 Speaker 9: to ram model rehearsals. You're doing rehearsals, whether you're clearing rooms,

2:04:12 Speaker 9: trying to figure all that kind of stuff out. These

2:04:14 Speaker 9: guys kind of did the same thing. I'm assuming because

2:04:17 Speaker 9: of how smooth it was, and because you know as

2:04:20 Speaker 9: well as I do, you get you know, you have

2:04:22 Speaker 9: new guys that join a unit and they're not that fresh.

2:04:24 Speaker 9: You know, they're very choppy because they're the basic understanding

2:04:27 Speaker 9: you've either had to stack up and do room clearing,

2:04:30 Speaker 9: and the guys that've done it and been through combat

2:04:32 Speaker 9: deployments and all that. They're very kind of methodical, very smooth,

2:04:34 Speaker 9: because you know what to expect. These new guys are

2:04:36 Speaker 9: not the same thing. You could tell these guys were seasoned,

2:04:40 Speaker 9: so as they did that. They actually each marine had

2:04:46 Speaker 9: two guys on them plus one that was taking the

2:04:48 Speaker 9: stuff off of them. They actually knew where our military

2:04:51 Speaker 9: ideas were because in Marine Corps order, you have to

2:04:53 Speaker 9: have them your left prest box.

2:04:54 Speaker 8: Or you were fifteen of these guys, three on each marine.

2:04:57 Speaker 2: No.

2:04:57 Speaker 9: No, So they had other guys right here, and they

2:04:59 Speaker 9: had three that were just going through each marine while

2:05:01 Speaker 9: other people were holding each marine that gun. And they're

2:05:04 Speaker 9: not like they're not like super close to us range

2:05:08 Speaker 9: wise with you know, because if you get a muzzle close,

2:05:10 Speaker 9: I mean, it's easy to grab it and you know

2:05:13 Speaker 9: kind of fend off, especially with a rifle. But these

2:05:15 Speaker 9: guys were I have to stand off this and said

2:05:16 Speaker 9: even if you try to move, they could, they could,

2:05:18 Speaker 9: they could smoke it.

2:05:20 Speaker 8: One search team of three guys, Yes, and then the

2:05:23 Speaker 8: rest of the squad was aimed in yes. Okay.

2:05:27 Speaker 9: Yeah, So and again you know they're not anywhere where

2:05:30 Speaker 9: they could actually there was people behind us because obviously,

2:05:33 Speaker 9: if they had to engage, they're going to hit one

2:05:34 Speaker 9: of their own guys probably, so it's more.

2:05:40 Speaker 2: Okay.

2:05:40 Speaker 1: So that was Michael describing the way that this paramilitary

2:05:44 Speaker 1: force got the drop on a seasoned, trained group of Marines. Tim,

2:05:54 Speaker 1: could you break down the tactileness of this, And again

2:05:58 Speaker 1: he is saying that these guys American dialect.

2:06:01 Speaker 2: He had a.

2:06:04 Speaker 1: Suspicion that they were, uh, you know previously in either

2:06:08 Speaker 1: in the military or you know, we're contractors. They were

2:06:13 Speaker 1: highly skilled operators.

2:06:16 Speaker 2: So that's why I actually wrote down a third scenario

2:06:18 Speaker 2: because the way he describes them attacking is not how

2:06:21 Speaker 2: seasoned warfighters would attack composition. But right, so this is

2:06:28 Speaker 2: the basic right of bring it forward here, This is

2:06:33 Speaker 2: the basic of what he said happened. He was in

2:06:35 Speaker 2: a tactical column, right, They were moving down the hill

2:06:40 Speaker 2: in a line, and then they were engaged by eight dudes.

2:06:45 Speaker 2: Right now, that number changed. I don't know what it is,

2:06:48 Speaker 2: but I just went with eight. Eight dudes had, according

2:06:51 Speaker 2: to him, interlocking fields of fire, right, So that's what

2:06:55 Speaker 2: these are right here. Right. So interlocking means that you

2:07:00 Speaker 2: have a complete overlap of all fire on an element. Right,

2:07:04 Speaker 2: So he said that they were moving in this direction,

2:07:07 Speaker 2: there would be about five feet between each person in

2:07:11 Speaker 2: like this staggered column, right, and they were fired or

2:07:16 Speaker 2: could have been fired upon in an interlocking field of

2:07:19 Speaker 2: fire manner.

2:07:21 Speaker 1: Right, right, so that they weren't shooting that there's no

2:07:24 Speaker 1: friendly fire capacity.

2:07:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. So essentially in this scenario, he says that they

2:07:30 Speaker 2: saw these eight guys and surrendered immediately, and then they

2:07:34 Speaker 2: collapsed their column into a line and they were searched.

2:07:36 Speaker 3: Right.

2:07:37 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. If you're fighting in this battle,

2:07:40 Speaker 2: as I mentioned before, this guy is way this rear

2:07:43 Speaker 2: guy is way far away from the element. Even if

2:07:45 Speaker 2: you didn't have radios, which, as I've claimed a thousand times,

2:07:48 Speaker 2: they did have radios. Right, this dude could have ran away.

2:07:52 Speaker 2: You know, I've said it like a million times. You know,

2:07:55 Speaker 2: this dude could have escaped and went and got all

2:07:58 Speaker 2: the other marines or when back and grabbed the radio

2:08:01 Speaker 2: operator and called like every marine in a helicopter in anything, Right,

2:08:06 Speaker 2: Why would this dude who's twenty feet away and these

2:08:09 Speaker 2: guys would have to be pretty much sniper If this

2:08:11 Speaker 2: guy just turning ran, these have to be snipers pretty

2:08:14 Speaker 2: much to hit him. Well, not snipers, that's that's disingenuous,

2:08:17 Speaker 2: but they would have had the land a pretty accurate

2:08:19 Speaker 2: shot on him to take him down, all while these

2:08:24 Speaker 2: guys should be shooting at them right like. So it

2:08:31 Speaker 2: just that's the scenario, he explained, And it just doesn't

2:08:36 Speaker 2: really make sense to me right now. What you would

2:08:40 Speaker 2: want to do in this actual scenario, the way they

2:08:42 Speaker 2: should have actually been operating, assuming there's still a six

2:08:47 Speaker 2: man team, right, is you would want to move in

2:08:50 Speaker 2: a diamond or a wedge pattern through the jungle, right,

2:08:54 Speaker 2: because even if you're going, even if this is a

2:08:57 Speaker 2: road right, you're gonna have dense jungle all aroun you.

2:09:00 Speaker 2: So you don't want this super long, drawn out column

2:09:03 Speaker 2: of people, right, because then you could get spread out

2:09:09 Speaker 2: and lost in the foliage. Right, So you'd want to

2:09:12 Speaker 2: move in a diamond, right, That's what these guys are

2:09:17 Speaker 2: moving in a diamond. But if you're in a six

2:09:19 Speaker 2: man team like usually you're in a four man team

2:09:21 Speaker 2: to being a diamond like this, If you're in a

2:09:23 Speaker 2: six man team, the six man element would get online

2:09:28 Speaker 2: with the outer rear and move in somewhat of a

2:09:30 Speaker 2: diamond with wings pattern here or a cross pattern. Right,

2:09:36 Speaker 2: So then say that they were actually moving in this

2:09:39 Speaker 2: formation and they were getting interlocking fields of fire from

2:09:43 Speaker 2: these guys in black. Right, all of these guys right

2:09:46 Speaker 2: here are all online in a line, able to fire

2:09:51 Speaker 2: forward without hitting anybody and could return fire line to

2:09:56 Speaker 2: line essentially, Like that's how you would want to engage

2:10:00 Speaker 2: line the line if.

2:10:02 Speaker 1: You were a if you were a team. Because where

2:10:06 Speaker 1: Michael claims or Michael says that he saw the craft

2:10:12 Speaker 1: and started taking pictures right.

2:10:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred and fifty meters away. So then.

2:10:20 Speaker 1: Would it make sense to keep moving forward if you're

2:10:24 Speaker 1: seeing that If you saw that craft, I mean I

2:10:29 Speaker 1: guess I would probably start moving forward to.

2:10:33 Speaker 2: But does that make sense to keep no, because like

2:10:38 Speaker 2: if you saw an unknown force. Because one thing that

2:10:41 Speaker 2: also doesn't make sense why he would surrender is as

2:10:46 Speaker 2: I told you before, Jamia Islamia, which is a radical

2:10:49 Speaker 2: AQ offshoot trying to take over Indonesia and make it

2:10:53 Speaker 2: a Califate. They're operating up in these this area. So

2:10:59 Speaker 2: like if if we got ambushed by eight dudes, I'm

2:11:02 Speaker 2: not going to assume that they're Americans Special Forces. I'm

2:11:06 Speaker 2: going to assume that they're Jemaia Islamia, And why would

2:11:11 Speaker 2: I ever surrender to radical islam guys who are just

2:11:14 Speaker 2: gonna cut my head off? Anyways, I'd rather go down

2:11:17 Speaker 2: and hail a gunfire, right than get my head chopped off.

2:11:22 Speaker 2: After reading the statement about how the West is terrible

2:11:24 Speaker 2: or whatever, like, we have known enemy combatants in the area.

2:11:31 Speaker 2: He knew about him. It was in the briefing. Everybody

2:11:34 Speaker 2: knew that they were in the area. So even if

2:11:37 Speaker 2: he was loaded for bear, which he isn't, all that

2:11:39 Speaker 2: all everything we've already talked before. At a base level,

2:11:43 Speaker 2: you have to assume if you run into anybody with

2:11:45 Speaker 2: a gun out in the jungle, that they are likely

2:11:50 Speaker 2: Jamaiya Islamia forces and you wouldn't just surrender to them

2:11:56 Speaker 2: in any way, shape or form.

2:11:58 Speaker 1: Right.

2:11:58 Speaker 2: But see, I also have this third scenario right, which

2:12:04 Speaker 2: I thought of as us listening to that. Right, So

2:12:07 Speaker 2: if these guys were actually trained special forces guys, right,

2:12:12 Speaker 2: the guys in black, they would want to attack in

2:12:15 Speaker 2: an L shape pattern on a column. Right, Yeah, you

2:12:18 Speaker 2: wouldn't have interlocking fields of fire like this, right, because

2:12:23 Speaker 2: if you have interlocking fields of fire just from one direction,

2:12:26 Speaker 2: the enemy can maneuver side to side. It's kind of

2:12:31 Speaker 2: like football, you know, like you can run out the pocket. Okay,

2:12:35 Speaker 2: So if they saw this column of marines walking down

2:12:38 Speaker 2: the road towards their UFO, they would not want to

2:12:41 Speaker 2: get online and shoot and risk a line to line shootout.

2:12:47 Speaker 2: What you would do is you'd move an element around

2:12:50 Speaker 2: right and create what's called an L shape ambush right

2:12:53 Speaker 2: where you can attack from the side and the front

2:12:56 Speaker 2: and create an entire kill box like this, a fire

2:13:01 Speaker 2: on the column right. Plus, if one of them the surrender,

2:13:06 Speaker 2: they would see that they're flanked, and then you would

2:13:08 Speaker 2: have these guys hold fire on them while these guys

2:13:12 Speaker 2: went up and searched right.

2:13:14 Speaker 1: Which could explain which could have explained the part where

2:13:18 Speaker 1: they do get searched. And then they have the rest

2:13:21 Speaker 1: of the crew.

2:13:22 Speaker 2: The rest, he says, they surrender and get online, which

2:13:26 Speaker 2: means they would all be in a line like this,

2:13:28 Speaker 2: they would no longer be in this formation. And then

2:13:30 Speaker 2: at that point you would want your element to stand

2:13:34 Speaker 2: in front of them with guns and then you'd have

2:13:36 Speaker 2: the other element search them from behind. That's our tactics

2:13:39 Speaker 2: when we search enemy combatants. As you have you kind

2:13:43 Speaker 2: of box them in and have.

2:13:45 Speaker 1: You ever heard of that? Have you ever heard of that? Stot?

2:13:50 Speaker 1: Because he there was one detail that was so odd

2:13:55 Speaker 1: to me, and it was how they use their gun

2:13:58 Speaker 1: straps to essentially like bind them, like bind them with

2:14:07 Speaker 1: enough time so they could get away. Have you ever

2:14:10 Speaker 1: heard of someone ever doing that in any scenario?

2:14:16 Speaker 2: Well no, but technically I just want to be fair

2:14:20 Speaker 2: to him and his story. He doesn't say that they

2:14:23 Speaker 2: were bound by their rifle straps. He says that their

2:14:27 Speaker 2: weapons were slung over them, strapped and tightened down so

2:14:34 Speaker 2: that they couldn't reach their weapons and like pull it

2:14:36 Speaker 2: over to re engage them. Right now, if I was that,

2:14:41 Speaker 2: if I was a shadowy force, right would have taken

2:14:46 Speaker 2: their weapons, but that's just me. Or I would have

2:14:49 Speaker 2: taken their magazines and their camera. But these are just

2:14:53 Speaker 2: the worst trained special forces fucking guys on the planet.

2:14:58 Speaker 2: So they decide to sling the right back over them.

2:15:02 Speaker 2: But see, all the rifles that we are, all the

2:15:05 Speaker 2: slings that we had at the time were what's called

2:15:07 Speaker 2: a three point sling, right, so it'd be like your

2:15:10 Speaker 2: weapon is right here, and then like this is your weapon, right,

2:15:16 Speaker 2: it would be slung one point here, it would go

2:15:20 Speaker 2: to another point there and then slung to another part here,

2:15:25 Speaker 2: and you would kind of like work your arm, sorry,

2:15:29 Speaker 2: you would kind of like it would it made like

2:15:31 Speaker 2: a little triangle three points of contact on your rifle, right,

2:15:34 Speaker 2: and you would slip this part through and then carry

2:15:40 Speaker 2: it like this right, right, you have your weapons slung

2:15:44 Speaker 2: like that, right. Well, what's really hard about the three

2:15:48 Speaker 2: point sling is they would have had to like they

2:15:52 Speaker 2: would have had to totally take in the sling and

2:15:55 Speaker 2: adjust the straps out to put it over them and

2:15:59 Speaker 2: then red just then. Yeah, and that's a lot of time.

2:16:03 Speaker 2: So especially if you're in a high scenario like so,

2:16:07 Speaker 2: say you got we're gonna assume Herrera's teams like on

2:16:11 Speaker 2: a line like this, right, and say you have your

2:16:15 Speaker 2: guys here covering them with pistols or with weapons. Right,

2:16:21 Speaker 2: you're in a high pressure scenario because you're standing behind them.

2:16:26 Speaker 2: What you would do is you would stand behind them

2:16:28 Speaker 2: and you would pat them down by like reaching over

2:16:32 Speaker 2: them and like reaching into their magazines or whatever. That way,

2:16:36 Speaker 2: if say Herrera feels froggy and throws an elbow at you,

2:16:40 Speaker 2: this guy could shoot you without you being in the way. Right, right,

2:16:45 Speaker 2: So it's just a lot of So it's a lot

2:16:47 Speaker 2: of time though that you're exposing yourself and you're risking

2:16:51 Speaker 2: yourself by reaching over this person and being in the

2:16:55 Speaker 2: line of fire from your own guy. So like, why

2:16:58 Speaker 2: would you waste the time? I'm to perfectly undo the sling,

2:17:03 Speaker 2: put the sling over, reslap the sling, like if you're

2:17:07 Speaker 2: trying to disarm these guys, and get the fuck out

2:17:10 Speaker 2: of here, because your whole mission is blown. I mean, honestly,

2:17:14 Speaker 2: I would have killed them. But say you didn't want

2:17:17 Speaker 2: to kill them, like you wouldn't just be fucking with

2:17:21 Speaker 2: that shit. You just take all their magazines, unload their weapons,

2:17:24 Speaker 2: and walk the hell away. Well, then what's the worst

2:17:27 Speaker 2: they can do is hit you with a rifle.

2:17:29 Speaker 1: Like right right, like literally but but like like as

2:17:33 Speaker 1: a weapon, like a blunt weapon, not like a.

2:17:38 Speaker 2: But okay, but then, like some of the other notes

2:17:41 Speaker 2: I have here, right is like, uh, you know, he

2:17:47 Speaker 2: says that they got their weapons re slung back on

2:17:50 Speaker 2: them and then they So I ran a little test

2:17:56 Speaker 2: with my one of my troops, right, and so you know,

2:18:00 Speaker 2: I volunteer my time running like PTSD and other like

2:18:04 Speaker 2: veterans support groups.

2:18:05 Speaker 1: So one of them, you're just like Sam Wilson, good

2:18:11 Speaker 1: all sat I.

2:18:12 Speaker 2: Guess, but we took my ar fifteen and slung it

2:18:16 Speaker 2: like that and right with a buddy, with my buddy

2:18:20 Speaker 2: loosening it for me, I was able to unsling my

2:18:23 Speaker 2: rifle in like four seconds. So even if all this happened,

2:18:29 Speaker 2: and then those guys told them to walk off, why

2:18:31 Speaker 2: didn't they walk off and then everybody helps take their

2:18:33 Speaker 2: rifles off and re engage. If they didn't take their magazine,

2:18:37 Speaker 2: at that point, you've already been assaulted. They've committed a

2:18:40 Speaker 2: war crime againstsets. Yeah, So why wouldn't you just like

2:18:47 Speaker 2: go over the hill, send one guy as a runner

2:18:49 Speaker 2: to grab everybody else, pull your rifles off, and run

2:18:52 Speaker 2: back and try to engage. Because he says that those

2:18:56 Speaker 2: eight to fifteen guys who took them down, they stayed

2:19:00 Speaker 2: while the UFO took off. So that's eight to fifteen

2:19:05 Speaker 2: intel not intel ascid. What I mean is like possible

2:19:07 Speaker 2: sources of information and enemy combatants still in the area.

2:19:12 Speaker 2: Why would you not try to affect any kind of fire,

2:19:15 Speaker 2: any kind of mission, try to call a helicopter and

2:19:18 Speaker 2: tell him to get eyes on these dudes. You just

2:19:21 Speaker 2: walked off with your rifle with your legs tail between

2:19:24 Speaker 2: your fucking legs, as a trained marine infantryman and walked

2:19:29 Speaker 2: off and let your rifle hang on your side. And

2:19:31 Speaker 2: then he claims that he left his rifle slung retardedly

2:19:35 Speaker 2: on his back for so long that he walked three

2:19:38 Speaker 2: hundred meters back and got chewed out by a higher

2:19:42 Speaker 2: command person for having his rifle slung like that. So

2:19:48 Speaker 2: there's just so much time and space between when this happened,

2:19:52 Speaker 2: when he could have unslung his rifle and not get

2:19:54 Speaker 2: chewed out about it, or went for help, or used

2:19:57 Speaker 2: the radio or turned around and re engage. Right, But

2:20:01 Speaker 2: they didn't take their magazines, they had a radio, one

2:20:05 Speaker 2: of them would have had their black gear, right, because

2:20:08 Speaker 2: think about it, why would why would you send them

2:20:10 Speaker 2: to do an overwatch of your position without a radio? Okay, Like,

2:20:15 Speaker 2: how would you be able to call them and say, hey,

2:20:18 Speaker 2: we're getting overrun here, I need help, you know, overwatch

2:20:21 Speaker 2: us if you have no communication with them, or how

2:20:25 Speaker 2: are they going to unload the helicopter? How are we

2:20:28 Speaker 2: in the helicopter? Me myself on the radio calling them

2:20:31 Speaker 2: every single mission that I did. I called them and said, hey,

2:20:34 Speaker 2: we're five minutes out, get ready clear the area. If

2:20:38 Speaker 2: they don't have a radio, how am I calling them?

2:20:40 Speaker 1: That column would have been there as essential as a.

2:20:45 Speaker 2: Weapon, more essential than a weapon, right. It allows you to.

2:20:50 Speaker 1: To communicate with the larger the larger team. And also

2:20:55 Speaker 1: you know these again, it is a it is something.

2:20:59 Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to stress that. That's something that

2:21:02 Speaker 1: I could never wrap my head around, is the no

2:21:04 Speaker 1: comms detail, because again I couldn't see any circumstance that

2:21:11 Speaker 1: they would have walked into the jungle with no comms,

2:21:14 Speaker 1: especially especially in the situation they were. You guys actually

2:21:21 Speaker 1: were in right, I mean, yeah, that's that was the

2:21:26 Speaker 1: for me. That was one of the harder things to get.

2:21:28 Speaker 2: My head to to to to not harp on.

2:21:34 Speaker 1: So and and and yeah, a marine not giving any fight,

2:21:42 Speaker 1: immediately giving up.

2:21:44 Speaker 2: Was not even trying to escape either, Like, yes, they

2:21:47 Speaker 2: tell you run away from battle if you have to.

2:21:50 Speaker 2: Like the things that you do when you meet the

2:21:52 Speaker 2: enemy is an acronym called like you know, draw d

2:21:55 Speaker 2: like defend, reinforce, you know, attack with draw or del

2:22:00 Speaker 2: lay right, so like it's not against the U sum

2:22:04 Speaker 2: jada withdraw or try to have one guy escape, Like

2:22:08 Speaker 2: that's what I would have done. For sure, I would

2:22:11 Speaker 2: lay I would have laid down my life if I

2:22:13 Speaker 2: had to laying down fire so one of my guys

2:22:16 Speaker 2: could escape, if we didn't have a radio, if you

2:22:18 Speaker 2: felt your life was actually threatened and in.

2:22:23 Speaker 1: Danger, and in this circumstance that Herrera lays out, I mean,

2:22:27 Speaker 1: they're they're actively saying, we are going to smoke you,

2:22:33 Speaker 1: which is military lingo, and you know.

2:22:37 Speaker 2: Agree, most like smoke is used as lingo of like, hey,

2:22:42 Speaker 2: we're gonna work you out, like we used to have

2:22:44 Speaker 2: smoke sessions where we would have like you know, remedial

2:22:48 Speaker 2: pete stuff like smoke is not really how we would

2:22:51 Speaker 2: describe somebody like kill you. I'm gonna saying, hey, I'm

2:22:57 Speaker 2: going to smoke you to a marine means I'm about

2:22:59 Speaker 2: to force you. Did you push ups until you puke?

2:23:01 Speaker 2: Like right? Right?

2:23:03 Speaker 1: So that's actually a really good that's actually a really

2:23:05 Speaker 1: good point. But Okay, so they're they're saying, but they

2:23:08 Speaker 1: are actively saying again allegedly, they're actively saying that death

2:23:13 Speaker 1: is on the table, and it's actually likely that yeah,

2:23:18 Speaker 1: that you know, and and it until it becomes you know,

2:23:23 Speaker 1: kind of a parent that that they're gonna let them go.

2:23:26 Speaker 1: But Harrera does maintain throughout the whole thing that he

2:23:29 Speaker 1: did not think that he was going to live, uh

2:23:33 Speaker 1: through this. So if you think you're gonna die, why

2:23:38 Speaker 1: not if they're searching you like that, why not sling

2:23:42 Speaker 1: one of them over, have one of their guys fire

2:23:45 Speaker 1: in the confusion you you used him as a shield.

2:23:48 Speaker 1: Like there's there are things like if you're if you're

2:23:51 Speaker 1: gonna die anyway, like you said, kind of like, well,

2:23:54 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna die like a dog, I'm gonna die

2:23:57 Speaker 1: like a marine.

2:23:59 Speaker 2: Well. Plus, you know, another thing that's not really talked

2:24:01 Speaker 2: a lot about is like and this goes out to

2:24:04 Speaker 2: my vets that like understand like combat scenarios right, like,

2:24:11 Speaker 2: say you're moving down the road right and then you

2:24:15 Speaker 2: see random guys up here with guns right dating identify themselves.

2:24:22 Speaker 2: You don't know who the fuck they are, so immediately,

2:24:26 Speaker 2: like Sean Ryan said, there should have been like a

2:24:29 Speaker 2: Mexican standoff. You should have yelled, hey, contact front, and

2:24:34 Speaker 2: then everybody gets their weapons up and face towards the front.

2:24:36 Speaker 2: Right now, everyone's Yeah, at a minimum, you should have

2:24:41 Speaker 2: had your weapon up if they weren't directly in front

2:24:44 Speaker 2: of you, not behind you or flanking you like I

2:24:45 Speaker 2: had showed before. If they're directly in front of you,

2:24:48 Speaker 2: why are you not pointing your weapon up at them

2:24:52 Speaker 2: and being like, hey, who the fuck are you? Identify

2:24:55 Speaker 2: yourself right and they're like, oh, hey, you know, we're

2:24:58 Speaker 2: whoever you know? Like, because once again, how do you

2:25:01 Speaker 2: not know it's Jemia Islamia? How do you not know

2:25:05 Speaker 2: it's radical Islamic fighters coming to attack you? The person

2:25:10 Speaker 2: fucking know you would put your weap in a yeah,

2:25:14 Speaker 2: the security threats that we were briefed on, or how

2:25:16 Speaker 2: do we not know it's like Indonesian military working, Because

2:25:20 Speaker 2: then you just put your weapon up and then you'd

2:25:22 Speaker 2: be like, hey, who are you and they would be like, hey,

2:25:24 Speaker 2: we're other Marines or we're Indonesian army or something, and

2:25:28 Speaker 2: they'd be like okay, cool and put your weapon down.

2:25:31 Speaker 2: You wouldn't just be like, oh, no, there's a random

2:25:33 Speaker 2: person here, let me throw my hands up because they

2:25:36 Speaker 2: look like they're slightly in a position where they could

2:25:38 Speaker 2: fire on us, Like that's yeah, I get it.

2:25:42 Speaker 1: I get it.

2:25:42 Speaker 2: I get it. It just it does that that part

2:25:47 Speaker 2: is that that is ah And even if Michael Herrera

2:25:50 Speaker 2: himself was shell shocked by it and didn't fire immediately,

2:25:54 Speaker 2: you're telling me all six dudes had the same instinct

2:25:57 Speaker 2: of surrender immediately.

2:25:58 Speaker 1: Right telepathically like said to each other, Hey, guys, not

2:26:02 Speaker 1: this time, not not not.

2:26:05 Speaker 2: Today's humans don't operate like that, especially under threat of death. Yeah,

2:26:13 Speaker 2: yourself know how you operated when under thread of death.

2:26:16 Speaker 2: You don't know what's going to happen. I mean, you're

2:26:19 Speaker 2: telling me. None of those guys had an itchy trigger

2:26:22 Speaker 2: finger and fired. None of them pulled their weapon up,

2:26:25 Speaker 2: None of them tried to maneuver at all. No one

2:26:29 Speaker 2: tried to escape, no one tried to right. Yeah, no

2:26:35 Speaker 2: one said hey, who the fuck are you? They just

2:26:38 Speaker 2: were like, yeah, like they're just like, hey, there's guys

2:26:43 Speaker 2: in black here, let's just surrender. I don't know who

2:26:45 Speaker 2: they are.

2:26:46 Speaker 1: Ask you this flip side the Special Forces? Would they

2:26:52 Speaker 1: have not been briefed, Hey, guys, we have friendlies here,

2:26:58 Speaker 1: right we U. We might not be working for the

2:27:02 Speaker 1: United United States right now, but those are our guys essentially, Well.

2:27:07 Speaker 2: According to him, they have command and control through shadowy

2:27:11 Speaker 2: forces of the entire military, the admiral that caused him

2:27:15 Speaker 2: to do an NBA, the colonel he met back in

2:27:19 Speaker 2: all this, they would have knowledge of the operation.

2:27:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why was why did this even happen? If

2:27:26 Speaker 1: the shadowy force is in control? How did a group

2:27:30 Speaker 1: of marines accidentally get the drop on them, so to say,

2:27:36 Speaker 1: enough for them to turn it around? And then it

2:27:39 Speaker 1: becomes a gun you know, guns drawn situation, such an

2:27:43 Speaker 1: elite force, and.

2:27:44 Speaker 2: We're on the radio calling out where LZ's are at

2:27:48 Speaker 2: night because I told you we didn't operate during at night.

2:27:51 Speaker 2: We did all the mission planning for where our LZ's

2:27:54 Speaker 2: were going to be. So why didn't one of their

2:27:56 Speaker 2: little spies on the ship say, hey, they're going to

2:27:59 Speaker 2: be at one, two three on this grid. Put the

2:28:02 Speaker 2: UFO on the other side of the fucking island so

2:28:06 Speaker 2: no friendlies can fucking see it.

2:28:08 Speaker 1: Right, there's no possibility. If they're that elite, they would

2:28:11 Speaker 1: know that. Not only as do we have a platoon

2:28:14 Speaker 1: of marines doing aid here.

2:28:16 Speaker 2: But you know we have helicopters, helicopters, command and control

2:28:22 Speaker 2: on the ship. Don't forget the ship has a full

2:28:25 Speaker 2: Every ship has like a full electronic warfare package with

2:28:30 Speaker 2: radars and light ar And I don't sorry, that wasn't

2:28:35 Speaker 2: my job. I was in the infantry. I don't know

2:28:37 Speaker 2: all these like computer systems.

2:28:38 Speaker 6: But.

2:28:41 Speaker 2: They would have full command and control both comms wise

2:28:45 Speaker 2: and everything like of that whole battle space. If they're

2:28:50 Speaker 2: flying million dollar machines helicopters in the air, you think

2:28:53 Speaker 2: they're gonna fly out there and they have no control

2:28:56 Speaker 2: over the air space. They have no control over who's

2:28:59 Speaker 2: going in and out right, there's no radars looking for things.

2:29:06 Speaker 2: And I mean, I know it's all gonna be explained

2:29:08 Speaker 2: to way Well, Tim, it's a fucking UFO. They would raider.

2:29:13 Speaker 2: It fucking can fly and go in the water and

2:29:15 Speaker 2: whatever the fuck. And I'm like cool, I mean, that's

2:29:19 Speaker 2: that's great if it has that capability. I wish I

2:29:21 Speaker 2: had that capability when I was, you know, doing ship.

2:29:25 Speaker 2: But at that point that just becomes a trump card

2:29:29 Speaker 2: of like, well this definitely happened because has thousands of

2:29:33 Speaker 2: fucking capabilities that it's a mcguffin are unknown.

2:29:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a it's like Superman, right, and

2:29:40 Speaker 1: you or you can't insert him into every story because

2:29:44 Speaker 1: it would be over in three seconds.

2:29:45 Speaker 2: Right, It's it's the it's the mcguffin.

2:29:48 Speaker 1: And again I would have thought that this tactile, you

2:29:52 Speaker 1: know whatever whatever force, this paramilitary force. At the end

2:29:58 Speaker 1: of the day, again, they're agents. May not be to

2:30:01 Speaker 1: the United States specifically, but they're not. I'm assuming they

2:30:06 Speaker 1: don't want to. They don't wake up going I want

2:30:08 Speaker 1: to kill an American marine today, right, or I don't

2:30:11 Speaker 1: want to threaten an American marine.

2:30:13 Speaker 2: Today, not if we don't have to. So, if I have.

2:30:17 Speaker 1: Uh a full situational operational control over this this island,

2:30:24 Speaker 1: with this natural disaster that I'm using as cover to

2:30:28 Speaker 1: traffic certain underprivileged humans, I'm going to be tapped into

2:30:34 Speaker 1: your comms so I know everything you guys are doing.

2:30:38 Speaker 1: That way, you'd never see me, right, I'm gonna know.

2:30:42 Speaker 2: Where you know the the you guys are Special Forces, right, yeah?

2:30:47 Speaker 2: In Special Forces training in Q course, you know, they're

2:30:53 Speaker 2: literally trained to operate behind the scenes, like literally the

2:30:58 Speaker 2: Robin thing where they do their final training and they

2:31:01 Speaker 2: like infiltrate a US town and like start recruiting people

2:31:04 Speaker 2: or whatever. These dudes are fucking ghosts. They could take

2:31:07 Speaker 2: their ghosts. They could have just went into the jungle.

2:31:10 Speaker 2: They could have just walked fifty feet into the jungle

2:31:13 Speaker 2: and laid down and Michael Herrara and then would have

2:31:16 Speaker 2: never fucking saw them.

2:31:18 Speaker 1: They might have saw the craft, but no one's gonna

2:31:20 Speaker 1: believe them. Yeah, you might've got a good look at

2:31:25 Speaker 1: the craft, but we'll take care.

2:31:26 Speaker 2: Why would you even like, that's what doesn't even make

2:31:29 Speaker 2: sense to me. Why would you even risk if they

2:31:32 Speaker 2: were armed, like he says, their arm which they were not.

2:31:35 Speaker 2: I just want to make it very clear so that

2:31:36 Speaker 2: nobody says my story is inconsistent. They did not have rifles, saws,

2:31:41 Speaker 2: none of that on.

2:31:42 Speaker 1: Them because of what they when touched down.

2:31:48 Speaker 2: So that aside trying to give credence to his story

2:31:52 Speaker 2: in their story. If they're armed, for fucking bear right,

2:31:56 Speaker 2: like full battle rattle, got their armor and everything, why

2:31:59 Speaker 2: would you even risk and engagement with six marines? You

2:32:03 Speaker 2: know their marines, you know their infantry. That's probably the

2:32:08 Speaker 2: hardest it.

2:32:09 Speaker 4: Like.

2:32:10 Speaker 2: Individual you could fight on this planet, Why would you

2:32:14 Speaker 2: pick a fight? I would not want you just lie

2:32:17 Speaker 2: down in the jungle and watch them walk away.

2:32:19 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, make and if the UFO can fucking disappear.

2:32:22 Speaker 1: Make it disappear for a minute. Let these marines walk by.

2:32:26 Speaker 1: We don't want to We don't want to engage them.

2:32:28 Speaker 1: Those are trained fighters, that's not the jungle dwelling radicals

2:32:33 Speaker 1: that you know. If we see them, we'll we'll just

2:32:36 Speaker 1: kill them. Don't worry about that. Oh yeah, yeah, we'll

2:32:41 Speaker 1: literally just kill them.

2:32:43 Speaker 2: Don't worry.

2:32:43 Speaker 1: But we don't want to engage the Marines. They know

2:32:46 Speaker 1: what they're doing. We don't want them to see us.

2:32:48 Speaker 1: We're tapped into their coms, we know their every move.

2:32:51 Speaker 1: We'll make sure they don't see us. Oh shit, we

2:32:55 Speaker 1: fucked up all right, camouflage that. Let's all drop down

2:32:59 Speaker 1: like you said, drop.

2:33:00 Speaker 2: Down Like the minute on the radio, they're like, hey, Herrera,

2:33:04 Speaker 2: go to an op three hundred meters away. They would

2:33:06 Speaker 2: have been able to look at the map and go,

2:33:08 Speaker 2: oh ship, we're three hundred meters away. Let's get the

2:33:11 Speaker 2: fuck out of here. Let's use this UFO that we

2:33:14 Speaker 2: have and get out of dodge.

2:33:18 Speaker 1: So I okay, I mean you present a very compelling case,

2:33:24 Speaker 1: very very compelling. Have you ever as a as a

2:33:32 Speaker 1: kind of switching gears here? I want it because I

2:33:35 Speaker 1: do want people to know who you are all the

2:33:40 Speaker 1: other ship aside. Have you ever seen a UFO? Have

2:33:45 Speaker 1: you ever seen anything you couldn't explain.

2:33:49 Speaker 2: Personally? I that's okay if you say that I have not, No,

2:33:52 Speaker 2: I I haven't. I mean obviously, you know, in my career,

2:33:58 Speaker 2: I've wandered around and I've seen some things in the

2:34:02 Speaker 2: sky lights and whatnot, but I don't I personally don't

2:34:07 Speaker 2: have any experience with UFO stuff. I mean I've heard stories,

2:34:12 Speaker 2: you know, Like obviously I've learned a lot about the

2:34:18 Speaker 2: UAP community since starting this journey of you know, trying

2:34:25 Speaker 2: to speak out about this, Like I've watched a lot

2:34:28 Speaker 2: of videos, but I have not seen Okay, Well that's

2:34:34 Speaker 2: that's that's why this that's why this story I believe

2:34:38 Speaker 2: is false. Well, I don't think there's so many different

2:34:42 Speaker 2: ways that I would have seen this craft on that

2:34:45 Speaker 2: operation if it operated in the manner that he claimed.

2:34:51 Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, Are you open to the idea that the

2:34:59 Speaker 1: world is not black and white?

2:35:01 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean I my kind of thought. And I

2:35:08 Speaker 2: told Joey this is like, if aliens are real, that's cool.

2:35:12 Speaker 2: If they want to fight, I'll fight. If they want

2:35:14 Speaker 2: to have a beer, I'll have a beer with aliens. Like,

2:35:18 Speaker 2: I'm kind of chill about it. It really outside of

2:35:22 Speaker 2: my experience with Yeah, absolutely, I mean if they if

2:35:27 Speaker 2: that's what they wanted to, like, I would love to

2:35:29 Speaker 2: meet Intef and stuff. I bet they got bombed, Bud.

2:35:35 Speaker 1: I actually have a picture in a frame over here

2:35:38 Speaker 1: where it's an alien. It says, uh, instead of taking

2:35:41 Speaker 1: me to your leader, it says it's a gray, gray

2:35:44 Speaker 1: alien with the joint and it's like, take me to

2:35:46 Speaker 1: your dealer. It's one of my favorite I had to

2:35:50 Speaker 1: frame it. Can you see it?

2:35:52 Speaker 3: No?

2:35:53 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, I can see it?

2:36:03 Speaker 2: Nice the m hm anyway, Yeah, I mean fun fun.

2:36:22 Speaker 2: I'm not against it by any means. I just I

2:36:27 Speaker 2: know what I don't know, and all I know is

2:36:30 Speaker 2: about the specific operation and.

2:36:34 Speaker 1: What do you make of because but inherently, and I

2:36:40 Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but inherently, if your

2:36:43 Speaker 1: contradiction or if you're if what you're saying, Michael Herrera

2:36:51 Speaker 1: is not just the only one Jake Barber then kind

2:36:58 Speaker 1: of like confirms a story in a weird way invalidates it.

2:37:06 Speaker 1: Do you believe that that that there are teams of

2:37:09 Speaker 1: crash retrieval, like like teams of people that are special

2:37:15 Speaker 1: operators that work for you know, Northump, Crumb and Lockeed.

2:37:19 Speaker 1: They're ex special Forces most of the time. Do you know,

2:37:25 Speaker 1: have you seen evidence for or you know, would you

2:37:30 Speaker 1: expect something like that to be real, some sort of

2:37:32 Speaker 1: crash retrieval if UFOs exist.

2:37:34 Speaker 2: Going on that side, and it could be like honestly,

2:37:39 Speaker 2: like the game X Calm, that makes the most sense

2:37:41 Speaker 2: to me that, like, you know, there are people that

2:37:44 Speaker 2: recover UFOs and whatnot, But I can't confirm any of

2:37:49 Speaker 2: that right And but I will say this, you know,

2:37:53 Speaker 2: all of these guys are supposedly former special operators and

2:37:57 Speaker 2: I when I transitioned to the Army, I spent time

2:37:59 Speaker 2: with the Rangers, you know, I did a bunch of

2:38:03 Speaker 2: training in specialized capacities. And I don't know where they're

2:38:10 Speaker 2: recruiting these people from. But nobody ever offered anything like

2:38:14 Speaker 2: that to me. And I mean they'll probably say it's

2:38:17 Speaker 2: it's veterans, you know, getting offered these, But I'm super

2:38:22 Speaker 2: connected with the veteran world. I mean I worked at

2:38:25 Speaker 2: VAED for a little while when I was in school,

2:38:28 Speaker 2: so I worked with veterans going to school. I work

2:38:31 Speaker 2: with veterans now, like as a peer support specialist. So

2:38:35 Speaker 2: I've talked to hundreds of veterans, thousands of veterans. I'm

2:38:40 Speaker 2: active in my BFW down the street, like veterans of

2:38:46 Speaker 2: all stripes. And I've never seen anybody like saying, hey,

2:38:51 Speaker 2: I got this offer to go, like you know, you know,

2:38:56 Speaker 2: be a part of this situation. I mean, actually, my

2:38:59 Speaker 2: good friend, the one that was trying to pick up

2:39:01 Speaker 2: the couch, he worked at Northrop for a while. He

2:39:05 Speaker 2: uh because he worked on the F thirty five. He's

2:39:08 Speaker 2: an F thirty five mechanic in the Marines, and I

2:39:11 Speaker 2: mean he just, you know, he didn't tell me anything

2:39:16 Speaker 2: crazy about what's going on there. He just said it

2:39:18 Speaker 2: was doing mechanic work.

2:39:20 Speaker 1: Like, okay, fair enough for So.

2:39:23 Speaker 2: I mean, I've never heard it, and I'm willing to

2:39:28 Speaker 2: believe it could happen. It could not happen. So you're like,

2:39:34 Speaker 2: I'm not against it, And you know what I've tried

2:39:38 Speaker 2: to make clear about this whole thing is like I'm

2:39:40 Speaker 2: not against anything to do with UFOs or people or whatever.

2:39:45 Speaker 2: My specific gripe, my specific lane is Michael Herrera and

2:39:51 Speaker 2: trying to discredit him. That's okay, what I.

2:39:57 Speaker 1: Meant trying to discredit him? That that sounds a little

2:40:04 Speaker 1: So discredit would mean that you're you're out here with

2:40:08 Speaker 1: the soul intent to do what you need to do

2:40:13 Speaker 1: to discredit.

2:40:14 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know what. I don't know what other word,

2:40:17 Speaker 2: what other word would.

2:40:18 Speaker 1: Work, because that sounds I would be careful saying that,

2:40:22 Speaker 1: because that sounds like someone sent you to discredit him.

2:40:27 Speaker 1: That's how it's used usually, right, So you're you're you're

2:40:31 Speaker 1: just saying that, hey, I was there. This isn't logically

2:40:34 Speaker 1: possible that this happened.

2:40:36 Speaker 2: Yes, all I'm trying to say is that this story

2:40:40 Speaker 2: did not happen. Now, I don't know if discredits the

2:40:42 Speaker 2: word for that. Maybe there's a different word. I'm trying

2:40:46 Speaker 2: to say that what Michael Herrera says he experienced, he

2:40:49 Speaker 2: did not. It didn't happen. That's it. I have nothing

2:40:54 Speaker 2: to do with any other UFO related stuff.

2:41:01 Speaker 6: I don't.

2:41:03 Speaker 2: I don't have anything else to do deny or confirm

2:41:06 Speaker 2: or anything about anything. I know about one thing, and

2:41:11 Speaker 2: that's Michael Herrera and what he did that day, and

2:41:13 Speaker 2: what I did that day, and what Booth and Labraham

2:41:17 Speaker 2: and Mendez and Williams and everybody else who was there

2:41:22 Speaker 2: did Okay, that's all I know.

2:41:26 Speaker 1: When you get to the Pearly Gates, if you do

2:41:29 Speaker 1: go there, I don't know what you're I don't know

2:41:33 Speaker 1: which which way you're headed. I don't That's that's between

2:41:36 Speaker 1: you and you and the creator. But when you get there, like,

2:41:42 Speaker 1: do you swear that this is the truth according to you?

2:41:47 Speaker 2: I swear okay. I don't mean. I don't have any

2:41:52 Speaker 2: incentive to lie or manipulate or whatever. You're not paying

2:41:56 Speaker 2: me to be here, yeah, I'm not. I volunteer to

2:41:59 Speaker 2: be here. Joey didn't pay me. No one's paid me.

2:42:03 Speaker 2: I'm not anybody's payroll. Like fine with anybody investigating me

2:42:09 Speaker 2: about anything. I'm pretty much an open book. I'm not

2:42:13 Speaker 2: trying to obscure anything about my life.

2:42:17 Speaker 1: Or did you find it odd that Joey didn't release

2:42:20 Speaker 1: the second part yet? I find it a lot not

2:42:25 Speaker 1: gonna lie.

2:42:26 Speaker 2: Well, he did after he dropped the first video. He

2:42:29 Speaker 2: had messaged me on Twitter. Hey, I'm sorry I didn't

2:42:35 Speaker 2: get the second part out yet. I'm gonna get it

2:42:37 Speaker 2: out in like a week. But he's a guy who

2:42:42 Speaker 2: invested a lot of.

2:42:45 Speaker 1: He he is a big proponent of this case, Like

2:42:51 Speaker 1: like Herrera and him are tight if I'm not mistaken, Like.

2:42:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely in that interview, especially in the second part,

2:43:00 Speaker 2: really tried to discredit me. Essentially, he pulled up a

2:43:08 Speaker 2: nicture of like a admiral that was on a ship

2:43:12 Speaker 2: around that time and was like, here's a picture of

2:43:14 Speaker 2: this admiral, Like, how can you say there was no

2:43:17 Speaker 2: admiral there? Like, obviously this is an admiral, is it not.

2:43:20 Speaker 2: And I was like, well, yeah, that's an admiral, but

2:43:23 Speaker 2: like it doesn't say where he is. I didn't say

2:43:26 Speaker 2: in the picture Uss Denver anywhere this picture of fucking

2:43:30 Speaker 2: admiral like around the same time, supposedly according to him.

2:43:36 Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't picture. He just said he pulled

2:43:42 Speaker 2: that offline.

2:43:43 Speaker 1: That's that's not a source.

2:43:45 Speaker 2: That's a.

2:43:47 Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's odd.

2:43:48 Speaker 2: But I mean, all I'm trying to say, like I'm

2:43:51 Speaker 2: not trying to bash him at all. You know, I

2:43:53 Speaker 2: wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him. He was

2:43:55 Speaker 2: the first person to really platform me, if you will,

2:44:02 Speaker 2: So I mean, I don't want to talk bad about

2:44:03 Speaker 2: the guy, but just what you were saying about his

2:44:06 Speaker 2: somewhat bias. He definitely was trying to come down on me, essentially,

2:44:14 Speaker 2: and he didn't want to hear a lot about these details.

2:44:16 Speaker 2: He didn't want to read the document that I had

2:44:19 Speaker 2: sent you. He never let me explain anything about the

2:44:23 Speaker 2: tactics or whatever. He just said, well, you you claim

2:44:26 Speaker 2: that you were like in a helicopter, so how could

2:44:28 Speaker 2: you know the tactics or whatever? Like I'm like, okay,

2:44:32 Speaker 2: I was just trained like you were.

2:44:36 Speaker 1: You were as trained, if not more than Michael.

2:44:39 Speaker 2: Correct because of your I served alongside him, Like you

2:44:44 Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like the same training he has.

2:44:46 Speaker 2: I have the same work up that we did, the

2:44:49 Speaker 2: same thing that we did. I'm so close to Michael.

2:44:53 Speaker 2: I carried his naked body out of the jungle after

2:44:55 Speaker 2: he had a heat stroke. Like I couldn't even tell

2:44:58 Speaker 2: that story to Joe Aiden, Like wait a second, wait

2:45:02 Speaker 2: a second, tell me more.

2:45:07 Speaker 1: Okay, so we are we're in the weeds here, but yeah,

2:45:11 Speaker 1: but let's round it out with this. What the fuck

2:45:15 Speaker 1: are you talking about?

2:45:17 Speaker 2: Naked junk the bodies I theorized to some of my

2:45:25 Speaker 2: friends as a joke that Herrera must have saw these

2:45:28 Speaker 2: aliens because his brain got cooked in this heat stroke issue,

2:45:34 Speaker 2: so about two weeks. And this also explains. This also

2:45:38 Speaker 2: explains why he was not in a leadership position. In

2:45:42 Speaker 2: the Sean Ryan Show, he said he was leading this team.

2:45:45 Speaker 2: He actually reprimanded. When does he say that, let me

2:45:49 Speaker 2: find the time, stampede.

2:45:52 Speaker 1: I want to play that quick. I want to hear this.

2:46:00 Speaker 1: I again, I will never And while he's doing that, scoo.

2:46:05 Speaker 1: But I I have a thing.

2:46:08 Speaker 2: I have a respect thing. I will.

2:46:09 Speaker 1: I can't ask a question like that.

2:46:11 Speaker 2: I will.

2:46:12 Speaker 1: I'll never ask any any military veteran how many people

2:46:19 Speaker 1: they may or may have not killed. It's not respect

2:46:23 Speaker 1: not respectable for me. I'm sorry, it's not personal. It's

2:46:27 Speaker 1: I mean, it is personal to me. Like I you

2:46:30 Speaker 1: just don't go there, not unless they offer it.

2:46:35 Speaker 2: I mean there's a time and a place for that.

2:46:38 Speaker 2: I but that's not mine here. But yeah, so it's

2:46:44 Speaker 2: towards the front of the video.

2:46:46 Speaker 1: As nothing personally towards the front.

2:46:52 Speaker 2: I think it's around. I think it's around. I think

2:46:57 Speaker 2: it's around fourteen minute mark. Well, I had damn these ads.

2:47:04 Speaker 2: I just built a buttoning app and based forty four.

2:47:06 Speaker 1: Guys, may it just built an APP impossible. That's why

2:47:10 Speaker 1: I muted it. You don't have to hear the ad

2:47:14 Speaker 1: that I have to hear.

2:47:23 Speaker 2: It's still muted the.

2:47:26 Speaker 9: Pictures of that. And I had, you know, I stuck

2:47:31 Speaker 9: it in my dump pouch. You know, I was a

2:47:33 Speaker 9: sawgunner naturally, you know, so I had them two forty nine.

2:47:35 Speaker 9: That was my favorite weapon. I liked having a belt

2:47:37 Speaker 9: fed machine gun as much as a pain in the ass.

2:47:39 Speaker 9: I liked having APP compared to them sixteen or four.

2:47:42 Speaker 9: So because we're a humanitarian, all they did was give

2:47:45 Speaker 9: us a M sixteen A fours. You know, they had

2:47:48 Speaker 9: RCOs at that time. They want the A cogs. They

2:47:50 Speaker 9: had the mills on the size for windage and stuff

2:47:52 Speaker 9: like that, as well as the PET fifteens. You know,

2:47:55 Speaker 9: so if we're doing any kind of night range or

2:47:57 Speaker 9: night operation, we'd have those with our PBS four teens.

2:48:01 Speaker 9: So it's just a very basic loadout that we were doing,

2:48:04 Speaker 9: you know, nothing really crazy. And when we saw this

2:48:08 Speaker 9: happen saw this and I want to say unidentified because

2:48:12 Speaker 9: right now it's identified.

2:48:13 Speaker 6: Everybody knows what they are now.

2:48:14 Speaker 9: They're either a man made or they're not, and if

2:48:17 Speaker 9: they're not, the government's coming out and telling people admitting it,

2:48:20 Speaker 9: not directly, but they're still admitting it to a degree

2:48:22 Speaker 9: that it exists. Because why would they spend time with

2:48:25 Speaker 9: this legislation coming out. Why would they do that if

2:48:28 Speaker 9: it's if it doesn't exist? Why were they going through

2:48:30 Speaker 9: these measures to basically hold a gun up to these

2:48:32 Speaker 9: guys heads and say you better relinquish this technology or else.

2:48:35 Speaker 6: They're not just doing it, but the fact that all

2:48:38 Speaker 6: of us coming.

2:48:38 Speaker 9: Together and making this loud amount of in any kind

2:48:42 Speaker 9: of setting like that, whether you're a skiff, it's all

2:48:43 Speaker 9: under oaths detection.

2:48:44 Speaker 6: It's just something that I'm very thankful for. I'm very

2:48:47 Speaker 6: thankful that God damn it all right?

2:48:49 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, wrong spot, but that's all right.

2:48:55 Speaker 1: But so he said he was leading the team.

2:48:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, he claims that he was eating the team, right

2:49:02 Speaker 2: because at time points where he says that they were

2:49:06 Speaker 2: going to surrender, he says that I told my guys

2:49:10 Speaker 2: to stand down and surrender. So if you're not in charge,

2:49:13 Speaker 2: why would you tell your guys to stand down and surrender?

2:49:16 Speaker 7: Right?

2:49:16 Speaker 1: And call them your guys like that and call them Yeah,

2:49:19 Speaker 1: that's definitely, like a I was the leader of this squad,

2:49:23 Speaker 1: if you will, So what what do you what happened?

2:49:28 Speaker 2: What happened? This story ties into why he was not

2:49:34 Speaker 2: in a leadership position. So two weeks before we loaded

2:49:37 Speaker 2: on the boats and headed to the Philippines, we were

2:49:40 Speaker 2: doing some work up training while we're in Okinawa at

2:49:44 Speaker 2: Jungle Warfare Training Center. Right, So while we were there

2:49:48 Speaker 2: training out in the jungle.

2:49:50 Speaker 1: So you were jungle training too before this, yeah, and

2:49:54 Speaker 1: then you went to the jungle. Yes, so you were

2:49:58 Speaker 1: fucking right actually prepared to do this correct. Oh god.

2:50:05 Speaker 2: Actually one of the pictures I have but didn't send

2:50:07 Speaker 2: was us that day on the jungle. In the jungle.

2:50:10 Speaker 2: I could try to pull it up.

2:50:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a present but there's a present button if

2:50:17 Speaker 1: you want to while you tell that.

2:50:19 Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's on my yeah, no, let me

2:50:26 Speaker 2: see if I can find it. But anyway, okay, So

2:50:28 Speaker 2: the story is we're doing this uh training out in

2:50:34 Speaker 2: the jungle, the jungle and the jungle of Okinawa. No,

2:50:40 Speaker 2: I don't have it, and this is what you call

2:50:42 Speaker 2: this is a work up. Yeah. So essentially like the

2:50:48 Speaker 2: thing is in the infantry, right, because of your job

2:50:51 Speaker 2: is just to kill people with guns. Right, You're not

2:50:54 Speaker 2: a mechanic or a paper push or whatever. Essentially, you

2:50:59 Speaker 2: spend your whole life either training or out in the field,

2:51:02 Speaker 2: like doing missions, Like either training out in the field

2:51:06 Speaker 2: or doing missions out in the field, Like you don't

2:51:09 Speaker 2: really have a job other than that. So we were

2:51:11 Speaker 2: doing jungle training for two weeks until the boat showed

2:51:14 Speaker 2: up for us to load up on the boats and

2:51:16 Speaker 2: go do these operations. So while we're in the jungle,

2:51:22 Speaker 2: I'm with second Platoon, I have my machine gun and

2:51:25 Speaker 2: we're hiking through the jungle trip a canopy jungle. It

2:51:29 Speaker 2: was like one hundred degrees that day and it was

2:51:32 Speaker 2: like full humidity. Right, we were dying carrying that shit.

2:51:38 Speaker 3: Right.

2:51:38 Speaker 2: So we had this commander, right, our platoon commander was

2:51:45 Speaker 2: this like super arrogant dude who played football with Aaron

2:51:49 Speaker 2: Rodgers at cal or something and like that was his

2:51:52 Speaker 2: life achievement that he always told everybody, Yeah, I played

2:51:55 Speaker 2: football in like the NFL and shit. So anyways, that

2:52:01 Speaker 2: guy would always have Second Platoon do the hardest roots,

2:52:05 Speaker 2: the hardest training ops, the hardest anything, because he was like,

2:52:08 Speaker 2: I'm the hardest ever so my men are gonna be

2:52:10 Speaker 2: the hardest ever, right, right, So we took this path

2:52:13 Speaker 2: through the jungle like where we had to keep machetting

2:52:17 Speaker 2: stuff down. It's super hot all of the other So

2:52:22 Speaker 2: essentially what we're doing is we're going out as platoons

2:52:25 Speaker 2: and setting up like a camp area, which is like

2:52:28 Speaker 2: a defense area, right, and that's where we're going to

2:52:30 Speaker 2: camp for the night. So he took the furthest one

2:52:33 Speaker 2: out on the hardest road or whatever. So we're on

2:52:36 Speaker 2: this like death death march, right, it's crazy. And during

2:52:41 Speaker 2: this death march, Herrera is actually directly in front of me, right,

2:52:46 Speaker 2: So we're moving through a column. Like I showed you,

2:52:49 Speaker 2: I'm the guy staggered immediately off of Herrera. So we're

2:52:53 Speaker 2: hiking up and then we kind of dip down into

2:52:57 Speaker 2: this kind of rocky ravine and we decide that we're

2:53:02 Speaker 2: gonna take a break for a second and get water

2:53:05 Speaker 2: and like sit down and figure out where we need

2:53:07 Speaker 2: to go. So I'm sitting down. Herrera's right next to me,

2:53:11 Speaker 2: right in front of me in the column, sitting down

2:53:13 Speaker 2: on his pack. And as as we're sitting there, I

2:53:17 Speaker 2: see him start to stagger like this kind of like

2:53:21 Speaker 2: stagger and then he just collapses over. And what it

2:53:25 Speaker 2: turned out, is what we were told later, is that

2:53:29 Speaker 2: he had taken a bunch of pre workout Because I

2:53:32 Speaker 2: told you he was a gym rap. Me and him

2:53:33 Speaker 2: used to go in the gym all the time. He

2:53:35 Speaker 2: took a bunch of like pre workout, like C four

2:53:37 Speaker 2: or something before we went out on this hike, and

2:53:40 Speaker 2: it like totally dehydrated him to fuck. So then he

2:53:46 Speaker 2: had a heat stroke and he collapses right in front

2:53:49 Speaker 2: of me. So I run and grabbed the medic and

2:53:51 Speaker 2: we run back, strip off all his clothes, start pouring water.

2:53:56 Speaker 2: I had to pour all my water that I had

2:53:58 Speaker 2: on me, So I'm about to become super dehydrated. That's

2:54:01 Speaker 2: all I remember from that day. But we're pouring water

2:54:03 Speaker 2: on him, and then the medic is like, hey, we

2:54:06 Speaker 2: got to get Herrera out of here. He's so at

2:54:09 Speaker 2: this point, he's totally naked, he's completely passed out with

2:54:13 Speaker 2: a heat stroke, and we got to get him out

2:54:15 Speaker 2: of here. So me, the medic staff, Sergeant Nelson, and

2:54:23 Speaker 2: I can't remember who the last guy was. We had

2:54:25 Speaker 2: to actually use one of those like man portable carrying

2:54:31 Speaker 2: it like sled things with Herrera in the middle of

2:54:34 Speaker 2: it and carry him two miles naked and passed out

2:54:39 Speaker 2: from heat stroke through the jungle and out to a

2:54:44 Speaker 2: main road so that an ambulance can pick him up.

2:54:46 Speaker 2: And then he spent like a couple of nights in

2:54:49 Speaker 2: the hospital or where. I don't know how much time

2:54:51 Speaker 2: he spent in the hospital because of that, but he

2:54:54 Speaker 2: never came back to the training day and we were

2:54:56 Speaker 2: out there for like two three more days. So I

2:54:59 Speaker 2: always joke that he must have damaged his brain and

2:55:04 Speaker 2: seen a bunch of aliens or whatever. But well, yeah,

2:55:08 Speaker 2: he didn't see aliens.

2:55:09 Speaker 1: But which makes the story a bit more grounded because

2:55:15 Speaker 1: the implication of what he's saying is that we got

2:55:19 Speaker 1: this technology from somewhere, right, So it fits with the

2:55:24 Speaker 1: non human intelligence narrative because you know, people people when

2:55:30 Speaker 1: they see a craft like that, they go, okay, we're

2:55:33 Speaker 1: flying it. But we have these crash retrieval teams with

2:55:37 Speaker 1: reverse engineered the technology from non human intelligence. So you know,

2:55:43 Speaker 1: even with him not saying or seeing aliens, the the

2:55:48 Speaker 1: subtext is there.

2:55:51 Speaker 2: If but yeah, like, but what I mean by that

2:55:54 Speaker 2: is because we had to shut down the whole operation

2:55:56 Speaker 2: and take him out of there. He got a reprimand

2:55:59 Speaker 2: and an Article fifteen or whatever for essentially having to

2:56:06 Speaker 2: shut down the whole operation and us having to pull

2:56:10 Speaker 2: him out of the jungle. So that is definiteve Well, yeah,

2:56:16 Speaker 2: I mean we almost had a casualty on what's a

2:56:19 Speaker 2: training mission because of his own decisions to hydrate properly

2:56:25 Speaker 2: and take a bunch of pre workout before going out

2:56:28 Speaker 2: into a triple canopy jungle. So they had written him

2:56:31 Speaker 2: up for it. And if you get written up, you're

2:56:34 Speaker 2: not leading six man teams on solo training op ops. Like,

2:56:42 Speaker 2: So what I'm saying is he was the lowest man

2:56:44 Speaker 2: on the totem poll, right, So when he says I

2:56:49 Speaker 2: was leading my team, I was taking them out into

2:56:52 Speaker 2: the jungle. I told them to stand down. He was

2:56:55 Speaker 2: not in a leadership position at all. Because of this

2:56:58 Speaker 2: incident that happened like two three weeks prior. He was

2:57:04 Speaker 2: demoted from his position because of his actions.

2:57:08 Speaker 1: Wouldn't wouldn't that also, like would some of that be

2:57:16 Speaker 1: taken out on the team, Like, hey, guys, you fucked up,

2:57:21 Speaker 1: Like you know one, I know it's Michael that fucked up,

2:57:25 Speaker 1: But as a team. Are you reprimanded?

2:57:28 Speaker 2: I mean you would agree, like the whole platoon and

2:57:31 Speaker 2: our patoon commander got chewed the hell out by the

2:57:34 Speaker 2: company commander for having a casualty and having like like

2:57:39 Speaker 2: we had to shut down that whole training day. We

2:57:41 Speaker 2: lost entire day of training. They tried to fly heloing

2:57:44 Speaker 2: to get him, they couldn't do it because the jungle

2:57:46 Speaker 2: was too thick, so then he had to like we

2:57:49 Speaker 2: had to carry him out, and then it actually started

2:57:51 Speaker 2: this whole like international incident where they had to like

2:57:55 Speaker 2: hijack a truck from the Japanese to try to get

2:57:58 Speaker 2: him to the hospital. Like it was a whole it

2:58:02 Speaker 2: was a whole, big scenario, right, So a lot of

2:58:06 Speaker 2: people got in trouble for this scenario, but Michael Herrera

2:58:09 Speaker 2: the most because it was his decision not to take

2:58:12 Speaker 2: care of himself properly and put us all in this position.

2:58:16 Speaker 2: So there's no way they would have put him in

2:58:18 Speaker 2: a leadership position in the platoon right to be commanding

2:58:23 Speaker 2: these people, right, kind of.

2:58:26 Speaker 1: Sounds like Michael meant have been a bad marine.

2:58:30 Speaker 2: He was a terrible marine. I'm not I mean, I

2:58:33 Speaker 2: don't mean to knock the guy but he went a wall.

2:58:36 Speaker 2: He missed a whole deployment, right, and then he was

2:58:39 Speaker 2: the lowest level guy, and then he was kind of

2:58:42 Speaker 2: an outcast dude. So those guys usually don't get along well.

2:58:45 Speaker 2: The guy spent a lot of time alone. Everybody kind

2:58:48 Speaker 2: of thought he was there's something weird about him. Which

2:58:51 Speaker 2: is funny because when I first learned about this video,

2:58:53 Speaker 2: I was like, Michael Herrera's out here doing this about

2:58:56 Speaker 2: like talking about UFOs or whatever, and I was like

2:58:59 Speaker 2: that kind of track, Like it didn't surprise me given

2:59:02 Speaker 2: the amount of character.

2:59:05 Speaker 1: That he was.

2:59:07 Speaker 2: I mean, this is not like a well beloved individual

2:59:10 Speaker 2: in the unit. Yeah, he wasn't winning any popularity contests.

2:59:15 Speaker 2: You know. He always was kind of a weird dude, right,

2:59:19 Speaker 2: So yeah, and again I found out about this, It

2:59:23 Speaker 2: really didn't shock me at all.

2:59:26 Speaker 1: Like I do bring this up for context because I

2:59:31 Speaker 1: think it is he even admitted some of that that

2:59:35 Speaker 1: he was like kind of like a loaner, like you know,

2:59:38 Speaker 1: he always kind of grabbed so but again and he

2:59:43 Speaker 1: again he admitted to me that he was a bad marine,

2:59:46 Speaker 1: Like at some points he was a bad marine. I

2:59:50 Speaker 1: think over his career or his couple, you know, his

2:59:55 Speaker 1: his contract. I think he ultimately looks back on it

2:59:59 Speaker 1: as he did a good thing. But you know then

3:00:02 Speaker 1: that's not my decision to make. Again, you know, I

3:00:06 Speaker 1: I I didn't serve you know, I know how you

3:00:10 Speaker 1: know stressful that probably or you know is uh on

3:00:14 Speaker 1: your body like mentally, physically and all of that. So

3:00:19 Speaker 1: much I have respect for anyone who does it. But

3:00:23 Speaker 1: you know, with with again, just you know, we put

3:00:27 Speaker 1: these whistleblowers quote unquote, we put their we we give

3:00:32 Speaker 1: them passes on some of like because there's this that

3:00:36 Speaker 1: this saying, right, uh, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I

3:00:45 Speaker 1: never really liked that saying because I think proof is proof.

3:00:48 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be extraordinary to prove something extraordinary.

3:00:52 Speaker 1: Proof is proof, and and testimony, whether we like it

3:00:57 Speaker 1: or not, can convict someone of murder. Right, So, whether

3:01:03 Speaker 1: you're a psychological psychologist wants to tell you that it's

3:01:05 Speaker 1: the least least valuable asset, again, I'm not of that

3:01:15 Speaker 1: same mind that same psychologists can't tell me what consciousness is.

3:01:20 Speaker 1: So get fucked right, get fucked all due respect, But

3:01:27 Speaker 1: but it does bring in a lot of questions, and

3:01:30 Speaker 1: it brings in a lot of a lot of a

3:01:33 Speaker 1: lot of things like what was his mental state, you know,

3:01:37 Speaker 1: did he feel like he got robbed in the military

3:01:41 Speaker 1: of a of a like the hero's journey, So this

3:01:45 Speaker 1: is him kind of playing that out.

3:01:47 Speaker 2: Now, I don't that's what I always thought. That's what

3:01:51 Speaker 2: I always thought, right.

3:01:53 Speaker 1: Right, like, and that's where you the stolen valor thing

3:01:55 Speaker 1: comes in. It's because it's like your career, really, if

3:01:58 Speaker 1: that's what you're saying. But again, I'm just I'm an

3:02:01 Speaker 1: observer here, so I'm just bringing it up. But what

3:02:05 Speaker 1: you're saying is he didn't have that career. You know,

3:02:08 Speaker 1: it wasn't as glorious or or it wasn't like the movies.

3:02:12 Speaker 1: So this is him kind of maybe playing out that.

3:02:17 Speaker 2: Heroic like I was in the circle. I think about it.

3:02:20 Speaker 2: Why has he never identified anybody that was on his team?

3:02:23 Speaker 2: He says it's to protect him and protect them or whatnot.

3:02:27 Speaker 2: But he's never dropped any names. I can drop names.

3:02:30 Speaker 2: Other people have dropped names. Nathan has dropped names like

3:02:34 Speaker 2: you know, yeah, and it's just like, you know, just

3:02:39 Speaker 2: in the fact that he's like, I'm the only one

3:02:40 Speaker 2: who's gonna stand up, and I'm they can kill me

3:02:43 Speaker 2: because I don't have a family and my other guys do,

3:02:47 Speaker 2: so like I'm gonna like even that is kind of

3:02:50 Speaker 2: like that whole like, yeah, I'm a hero because like

3:02:52 Speaker 2: I'm the only dude out of these people to like

3:02:55 Speaker 2: stand up and talk about it.

3:02:57 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that there was any possible

3:03:00 Speaker 1: that maybe Michael was used by the vice this, like say,

3:03:07 Speaker 1: the shadow force does exist. Could he have been used

3:03:12 Speaker 1: to muddy the waters for something that was gonna come

3:03:16 Speaker 1: later on? Do you think there's any like that, you know,

3:03:20 Speaker 1: like mk Ultra, like, do you think these memories could

3:03:23 Speaker 1: have been implanted in him? Like do you think that

3:03:26 Speaker 1: is also maybe a possibility.

3:03:28 Speaker 2: Well, I'll say no, Like this is just my thoughts,

3:03:31 Speaker 2: just my speculation. I'm gonna put that disclaimer out there, right,

3:03:35 Speaker 2: Is he a victim as well? I think he is

3:03:40 Speaker 2: now right, And what I mean by that is so

3:03:43 Speaker 2: essentially in my research of this whole case or whatever,

3:03:47 Speaker 2: and other people have mentioned this same exact story that

3:03:51 Speaker 2: Michael Herra tells happened to him in two thousand and nine,

3:03:54 Speaker 2: happened to some other guy in Panama in like nineteen

3:03:58 Speaker 2: ninety five, or whatever, and it's like a direct one

3:04:01 Speaker 2: to one's why these dudes or whatever? But I mean

3:04:05 Speaker 2: that story has been around since nineteen ninety five or whatever, right,

3:04:10 Speaker 2: So if I was Herrera and I was like crafting

3:04:13 Speaker 2: the story, right, So this Indonesian op, there was about

3:04:17 Speaker 2: thirty marines there that could discredit him. Half of them

3:04:20 Speaker 2: are dead now, right. The other half thinks this is

3:04:23 Speaker 2: a joke. Then there's me. Right. So there's not a

3:04:27 Speaker 2: lot of people that were on that operation that can

3:04:30 Speaker 2: confirm or deny what happened. There's not a lot of

3:04:33 Speaker 2: records of that operation because it was this hasty, Hey,

3:04:38 Speaker 2: we're gonna pick up from the Philippines and go down there.

3:04:40 Speaker 2: On my DD two fourteen, it actually says Operation Ketsana

3:04:45 Speaker 2: on there, right, which technically Operation Ketsana was the operation

3:04:52 Speaker 2: we were doing in the Philippines. It's not even recorded

3:04:56 Speaker 2: in most like military paperwork that this Indonesian operation happened.

3:05:02 Speaker 2: That's why it's the perfect one to craft into this

3:05:05 Speaker 2: story right right now, So there's very few people that

3:05:11 Speaker 2: can discredit him. There's very little paper trail, right, and

3:05:16 Speaker 2: he was technically there, I mean eighty percent of what

3:05:20 Speaker 2: he said or seventy percent of what he says is

3:05:23 Speaker 2: true or maybe fifty I don't know. Because he was

3:05:28 Speaker 2: in Indonesia, he was on the USS Denver. He wasn't

3:05:30 Speaker 2: second platoon, he was an echo company. Me and him

3:05:33 Speaker 2: serve together, right, Like all of that is true, there's

3:05:37 Speaker 2: just this one tiny little extra UFO part that is

3:05:44 Speaker 2: not true. Fair, right, you know? The best lies.

3:05:49 Speaker 1: That's what you do have to look for in a

3:05:51 Speaker 1: lie is detail where there shouldn't be because time passes,

3:05:57 Speaker 1: and like the extra dream detail of the of the

3:06:02 Speaker 1: of the of the smallest details, but then not not

3:06:07 Speaker 1: a lot of detail in the large picture. Right.

3:06:11 Speaker 2: That that is something that.

3:06:15 Speaker 1: That's at least one of my tactics to look for.

3:06:19 Speaker 1: It's someone who's being dishonest. Now, I'm not gonna sit

3:06:23 Speaker 1: here and say that when I interviewed Michael, I didn't

3:06:26 Speaker 1: find his story compelling. I did. But the further more

3:06:32 Speaker 1: I get into it, the more questions I have, the

3:06:36 Speaker 1: more that can't be answered. And that's where I've come

3:06:39 Speaker 1: up against the brick wall here. It's not my place

3:06:41 Speaker 1: to say whether Michael is telling the truth or not.

3:06:45 Speaker 2: See what I meant by him being a victim in

3:06:47 Speaker 2: this scenario, right, is I think that he heard that

3:06:51 Speaker 2: other good dude story realized that he could tell a

3:06:54 Speaker 2: story like that about Indonesia. Nobody could really counter acted.

3:07:00 Speaker 2: There's very little way to counteract the story. So I

3:07:04 Speaker 2: think he just went around and kind of told that story.

3:07:07 Speaker 2: He probably told her the VFW a couple of times, probably,

3:07:10 Speaker 2: you know, he waffled it around, you know, told this story.

3:07:15 Speaker 2: You know, it made his service like great or whatever.

3:07:18 Speaker 2: And then I think these other elements this doctor Greer

3:07:22 Speaker 2: got Jake Barber, whoever these people are, right, was like, Hey,

3:07:27 Speaker 2: this guy's somewhat articulate, he's smart, he's got this story.

3:07:33 Speaker 2: Let's like bring him into our circle and organization or whatever.

3:07:42 Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck they are, Like, let's

3:07:43 Speaker 2: be honest, like, let's bring him into our thing, right,

3:07:48 Speaker 2: and then let's fill in some more details for him.

3:07:52 Speaker 2: So that now, like because in the Sean Ryan Show,

3:07:54 Speaker 2: he wasn't pushing the whole it was humans that psionically

3:07:58 Speaker 2: call fucking UFOs from the ground and blow them up

3:08:02 Speaker 2: or something whatever. I saw one crazy thing interview that

3:08:06 Speaker 2: he did talking about that, like, yeah, I think I

3:08:12 Speaker 2: think all that ship is what they fed him, and

3:08:15 Speaker 2: then he incorporated into his story and then now they

3:08:19 Speaker 2: use him to gain more like he used them the

3:08:23 Speaker 2: game more credibility and flesh out his story, and they're

3:08:26 Speaker 2: using him to add.

3:08:29 Speaker 1: More pieces to their own narrative. It's it's a win

3:08:33 Speaker 1: win for both of them, right.

3:08:36 Speaker 2: But I think to a degree, I think he got

3:08:39 Speaker 2: pulled into this and like he just kind of yeah,

3:08:49 Speaker 2: I think he just got pulled into this, and now

3:08:53 Speaker 2: he's just kind of you know, when you're in a

3:08:55 Speaker 2: shitty scenario, you just go through you just that's real.

3:09:02 Speaker 2: That's raw, man, that's raw.

3:09:04 Speaker 1: Like that that that's the that's and that's the thing

3:09:07 Speaker 1: is like I know what we're talking about here with

3:09:10 Speaker 1: UFOs and all this shit, Like it takes a degree

3:09:14 Speaker 1: of like suspending your you know, belief systems for a moment,

3:09:18 Speaker 1: but like we have to understand that they're sometimes these

3:09:24 Speaker 1: things are not true. Simple they're simply not true, and

3:09:29 Speaker 1: we have to be open to that. If if we're not,

3:09:32 Speaker 1: if we're not open to that, then we're no better

3:09:37 Speaker 1: than the skeptics who start from a this didn't happen perspective, Right,

3:09:44 Speaker 1: we have to separate ourselves from that. So what if

3:09:48 Speaker 1: you never get another chance to address people, what would

3:09:52 Speaker 1: you like to say about this case in general and

3:09:56 Speaker 1: your relationship to it.

3:10:02 Speaker 2: Oh, there's one.

3:10:08 Speaker 1: Message you want to get to people, and you never

3:10:10 Speaker 1: get another chance to do it, what would that be?

3:10:15 Speaker 2: My message would be, like, I just want to honor

3:10:19 Speaker 2: the people that were actually there and what we did there,

3:10:22 Speaker 2: And I mean we continued to do more like we

3:10:25 Speaker 2: we had great times. You know, we did those other

3:10:28 Speaker 2: humanitarian operations. Like Honestly, I don't know if Mike ever

3:10:35 Speaker 2: saw this, bro Like, what you did was enough. Man.

3:10:38 Speaker 2: You don't need to like make up anything like this

3:10:42 Speaker 2: to try to exaggerate. You know, we did good work

3:10:46 Speaker 2: out there. And you know, if I'm wrong, if this happened,

3:10:51 Speaker 2: I would more than willing, like more than I would

3:10:55 Speaker 2: be more than willing to talk to any of the

3:10:57 Speaker 2: troops that I served alongside. I consider them all friends

3:11:01 Speaker 2: and brothers.

3:11:02 Speaker 3: And.

3:11:04 Speaker 2: You know, if they ever want to come to me

3:11:08 Speaker 2: and talk about it and tell me I'm wrong, I'm

3:11:13 Speaker 2: more than willing to hear it. But at this point,

3:11:19 Speaker 2: you know, I have seventeen pages on that document, timestamped

3:11:25 Speaker 2: of every little inconsistency, and we didn't get to go

3:11:28 Speaker 2: through all of them, because I mean, we're here three hours,

3:11:32 Speaker 2: eleven minutes right into this, and I could, I could

3:11:35 Speaker 2: keep talking for another two hours, right of everything that's

3:11:40 Speaker 2: in this document. But but ultimately, you know, I don't.

3:11:53 Speaker 2: I have a question, what's up?

3:11:55 Speaker 1: What do you sit across from Michael Herrera?

3:11:59 Speaker 2: And and and absolutely you would, absolutely you would sit

3:12:05 Speaker 2: whether I have no I have no ill will against

3:12:10 Speaker 2: Michael her at all. I don't even know if he

3:12:13 Speaker 2: remembers me at this point. Uh, there's plenty of times

3:12:16 Speaker 2: that if you look at my ex replies, I've tried

3:12:18 Speaker 2: to contact him. There was a time I was just

3:12:22 Speaker 2: posting underneath all his posts, is trying to get any

3:12:25 Speaker 2: kind of reaction from him or whatever. Like, But I

3:12:28 Speaker 2: got no ill will for Michael Herrera. I think it's

3:12:33 Speaker 2: sad that he's doing this personally, Like, I get it,

3:12:38 Speaker 2: I get what you're saying, you know, but I don't.

3:12:41 Speaker 1: Want to You would say, yeah, absolutely, you would sit

3:12:45 Speaker 1: in a room camera's rolling, he tells his side, you

3:12:49 Speaker 1: tell your side.

3:12:50 Speaker 2: You'd be willing to do something like that. Yeah, I

3:12:53 Speaker 2: have no like, right, I like Michael Herrera or anything.

3:12:59 Speaker 1: Like I know offer so Michael, if you're listening, I

3:13:04 Speaker 1: will pay for it. I will make it happen. Let's

3:13:07 Speaker 1: put you to in a room. Then you guys bring

3:13:11 Speaker 1: your your stories together and and we'll hash this out.

3:13:15 Speaker 2: Tim.

3:13:15 Speaker 1: Do you believe that UFOs exist?

3:13:22 Speaker 2: Sure?

3:13:24 Speaker 4: I do.

3:13:24 Speaker 2: I believe.

3:13:26 Speaker 1: Do you believe I haven't seen a million dollars cash?

3:13:30 Speaker 1: I know it exists.

3:13:32 Speaker 2: I have seen a UFO in that property, in that property. Yes,

3:13:36 Speaker 2: I I do believe. I think it's pretty much statistically

3:13:43 Speaker 2: impossible that we're alone in the universe. In what form

3:13:47 Speaker 2: that is, or how, or if people are coming this

3:13:50 Speaker 2: way or not coming this way, or any any of

3:13:52 Speaker 2: the actual details. I don't know, but logically I think

3:13:57 Speaker 2: it's I think it would be a logical impossibility to

3:14:03 Speaker 2: be alone.

3:14:05 Speaker 1: Where God's only creation. Because you know, you understand, by

3:14:10 Speaker 1: by definition, by definition, an angel or a demon god

3:14:17 Speaker 1: himself non human intelligence. We're not talking about aliens, right.

3:14:25 Speaker 1: I don't like that word. I like non human intelligence

3:14:29 Speaker 1: because it's not human, but it is intelligent by definition,

3:14:33 Speaker 1: an angel or demon fits that bill. Right. So what

3:14:37 Speaker 1: our ancestors called gods and monsters are we calling extraterrestrial

3:14:45 Speaker 1: alien are the interdimensional like you know. I mean, I

3:14:51 Speaker 1: think these are all possibilities. Has our government been in

3:14:53 Speaker 1: contact with them? You know? I think these these are

3:14:58 Speaker 1: all layered questions. But if the president came to the

3:15:01 Speaker 1: podium and said, my fellow America, actually there's just like

3:15:03 Speaker 1: this rumor right now that some journalists got a hold

3:15:07 Speaker 1: of Trump's disclosure speech.

3:15:11 Speaker 2: And I hate when they do this, but.

3:15:14 Speaker 1: They said that He's going to address the UN or

3:15:18 Speaker 1: something on like June eighth and give this speech. Again,

3:15:23 Speaker 1: we hear all this, and I say this for a reason.

3:15:27 Speaker 1: We hear all these things in the community, the UFO world, right,

3:15:31 Speaker 1: and we understand that there's a lot of grifters in

3:15:33 Speaker 1: this space, people that tell stories for the sake of

3:15:39 Speaker 1: telling stories to get a book deal. We've been there,

3:15:43 Speaker 1: We've done that.

3:15:44 Speaker 2: Am I saying Michael's one of those people?

3:15:46 Speaker 1: No, not by any means saying Tim, I mean you

3:15:50 Speaker 1: believe that.

3:15:51 Speaker 2: Yes, But.

3:15:55 Speaker 1: Again, I'll bring it back, circle it back around. I

3:15:59 Speaker 1: wouldn't be doing justice to my own integrity if I

3:16:04 Speaker 1: did not hear you out as well as I heard,

3:16:08 Speaker 1: you know, just like I heard Michael out. So Tim,

3:16:10 Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this. Maybe we will

3:16:12 Speaker 1: have to do a part two, but I'm hoping that

3:16:14 Speaker 1: that part too is let's get you to in a room,

3:16:18 Speaker 1: but maybe you could help me talk to some of

3:16:20 Speaker 1: the other guys, even if it's off the record. I'm

3:16:23 Speaker 1: willing to do whatever to chase this down.

3:16:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, you know, I I can show

3:16:31 Speaker 2: you some of those combos I had with them, and

3:16:33 Speaker 2: I can try to reach out to them again. You know,

3:16:36 Speaker 2: most of it's on Facebook. I don't have a lot

3:16:38 Speaker 2: of these guys numbers anymore. It's been fifteen twenty years,

3:16:43 Speaker 2: but I reached out to a lot of these guys

3:16:46 Speaker 2: on Facebook. That's how I got a hold of Patrick Booth.

3:16:49 Speaker 2: I guess the Patrick Booth part was in the second

3:16:52 Speaker 2: part of Joey's videos and Nobby's seen that. But Joey

3:16:55 Speaker 2: really wanted to get a hold of Patrick Booth because

3:16:59 Speaker 2: he believed that Patrick Booth was.

3:17:01 Speaker 1: The key to.

3:17:03 Speaker 2: Like settling this whole thing. But what Patrick had told

3:17:07 Speaker 2: me was like, hey, I didn't see UFO. We were

3:17:11 Speaker 2: just there drinking coconuts and hanging out with the locals.

3:17:15 Speaker 2: I don't know why Herrera is saying any of this,

3:17:19 Speaker 2: but you know, I'm living my life. I don't want

3:17:22 Speaker 2: to be involved. Because I had reached out to him

3:17:25 Speaker 2: and tried to say, hey, you should go talk to Joey.

3:17:28 Speaker 2: You should do it because I mean, there's irrefutable photo

3:17:32 Speaker 2: proof of him and Michael Horr Are flying out on

3:17:36 Speaker 2: a stick together. Okay, so like that's something chased down. Okay, yeah,

3:17:43 Speaker 2: I mean so, but like I said, you know, he

3:17:50 Speaker 2: he doesn't really want to be involved in this. A

3:17:53 Speaker 2: lot of those guys don't want to be involved with this.

3:17:55 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, you know, one of my closer friends

3:17:59 Speaker 2: is Jane Williams, who was on my machine gun team

3:18:02 Speaker 2: at that operation. And when I talked to him, he

3:18:05 Speaker 2: was like, why are you even doing this? What's the

3:18:08 Speaker 2: whole point of like like let them say this, Like

3:18:13 Speaker 2: he was kind of like just let Michael say this

3:18:16 Speaker 2: crazy shit, you know, like who really is? Well yeah,

3:18:21 Speaker 2: because he was like, I mean they all think it's

3:18:23 Speaker 2: a joke, like a two degree I did as well,

3:18:28 Speaker 2: now as I've gone down this rabbit hole. Like you

3:18:32 Speaker 2: have to understand, a year ago, I didn't know anything.

3:18:36 Speaker 2: I didn't even know UAP was. I always thought they

3:18:39 Speaker 2: were called UFOs, like as somebody who was completely out

3:18:43 Speaker 2: of this community and has now been sucked in. You know,

3:18:48 Speaker 2: I kind of have an interesting perspective, you could say,

3:18:51 Speaker 2: like of the community as a whole. Now they haven't

3:18:54 Speaker 2: been very nice to me, uh right, But actually there's

3:18:59 Speaker 2: been plenty people to send me messages that were pretty nice.

3:19:04 Speaker 1: So people forget though, people forget that Herrera there was

3:19:09 Speaker 1: quickly I this just popped it into my head. There

3:19:13 Speaker 1: was actually a bunch of controversy in the beginning. Herrera's

3:19:18 Speaker 1: story wasn't really validated to the community until Jake Barber

3:19:24 Speaker 1: came into it. People were suspect of Michael in the beginning.

3:19:30 Speaker 1: He was wearing like a Freemason thing during his initial testimony,

3:19:37 Speaker 1: and people thought that was really odd and like he

3:19:42 Speaker 1: explained it on my show, why he did it because

3:19:45 Speaker 1: he's like a Freemason. He's but but he told me

3:19:48 Speaker 1: he was a whatever the highest like thirty third degree

3:19:54 Speaker 1: Scottish right Mason. It turns out that that's not true.

3:19:59 Speaker 1: Like I I independently, I don't think I've ever actually

3:20:05 Speaker 1: said this. I independently verified that that because they have

3:20:11 Speaker 1: records they I know Masons, I have I know Mason's

3:20:15 Speaker 1: pretty well, a few of them, pretty well with actual

3:20:19 Speaker 1: contacts through the chain, and I just put out the

3:20:22 Speaker 1: feelers like hey, this is like an elusive title to have,

3:20:26 Speaker 1: like the Scottish right Mason cord like that's like the

3:20:31 Speaker 1: that's the Freemasons, like you know chapters in the United States,

3:20:36 Speaker 1: like they're not they don't have the history that the

3:20:39 Speaker 1: Scottish righte Masons do. So like who and he's trying

3:20:44 Speaker 1: to say that he's a thirty fucking third degree Mason.

3:20:47 Speaker 2: And I'm like whoa wait what or no? So yeah

3:20:54 Speaker 2: that that was another thing, well, like to kind of

3:21:00 Speaker 2: swing back to what you had said about like him

3:21:02 Speaker 2: being a bad marine or whatever. I mean, to a degree,

3:21:06 Speaker 2: it shows your character, you know what I mean, Like

3:21:10 Speaker 2: if you're not somebody with a high level of integrity,

3:21:15 Speaker 2: you would be the person to embellish stories. Yes, you know. Yeah,

3:21:21 Speaker 2: Like I can't even call his story fully an outright

3:21:25 Speaker 2: lie because it's not a lot of that happened. He

3:21:30 Speaker 2: just embellished it a little bit. I don't embellish it.

3:21:34 Speaker 2: I just tell people I flew around Indonesia dropping supplies

3:21:38 Speaker 2: off and standing in the jungle, like you know what

3:21:42 Speaker 2: I mean, Like if anybody ever asked me about it.

3:21:45 Speaker 2: That's what I did. It happened, and that's that's what happened.

3:21:48 Speaker 1: Yeah right, okay, So just again to clarify, you did

3:21:51 Speaker 1: not see a three hundred foot black uf ON. For you,

3:21:56 Speaker 1: it would have been a UFO. So you did not

3:21:58 Speaker 1: see any craft. You did not see any special operators,

3:22:03 Speaker 1: anything outside of the ordinary on that deployment.

3:22:07 Speaker 2: There was nothing, and nobody else who was on that

3:22:10 Speaker 2: deployment recalls any of those details. There was no briefings

3:22:16 Speaker 2: about pilots or the ship or anything seeing anything.

3:22:22 Speaker 6: It was.

3:22:23 Speaker 2: This was literally a run of a mill like four

3:22:28 Speaker 2: or five day operation that ended with us sailing back

3:22:32 Speaker 2: to the Philippines.

3:22:34 Speaker 1: Well there it is, guys, Tim, where can people, you know,

3:22:37 Speaker 1: if they want to reach out to you, where can

3:22:39 Speaker 1: they do that?

3:22:41 Speaker 2: On X My dms are open. It's ad drunken war dog.

3:22:46 Speaker 2: I couldn't think of any better handle it. But uh yeah,

3:22:52 Speaker 2: I mean, anybody can reach out to me, totally available

3:22:58 Speaker 2: there on X if anybody wants me to talk to

3:23:01 Speaker 2: them or anything like.

3:23:05 Speaker 7: That.

3:23:06 Speaker 2: Pretty open.

3:23:06 Speaker 1: I love it, and uh you know, I really do

3:23:10 Speaker 1: want to say. I want to say thank you for

3:23:12 Speaker 1: your service to the country. Thank you for what you

3:23:15 Speaker 1: did for what you know, I know, once a marine,

3:23:18 Speaker 1: always a marine. But you know, thank you, thank you

3:23:21 Speaker 1: for your career in the military and like you know,

3:23:26 Speaker 1: allowing for the freedoms that we do have, uh still

3:23:29 Speaker 1: to this day. So if all else, thank you for that.

3:23:36 Speaker 2: Well. As I said before, I'm extremely grateful that you

3:23:40 Speaker 2: had me on and that are willing to hear me out.

3:23:43 Speaker 2: Not many people do so, and you've been a pleasure

3:23:46 Speaker 2: to work with, talk with, hang out with. So you know, absolutely, and.

3:23:54 Speaker 1: Well let's let's let's, you know, like, let's try to

3:23:57 Speaker 1: set this up. Let's let's let's let's put it to

3:24:00 Speaker 1: the fire. And I'd be willing to definitely be a

3:24:06 Speaker 1: part of something like that. So if I can help

3:24:08 Speaker 1: it come to fruition, let's fucking go. Everyone who's watching

3:24:14 Speaker 1: or listening in the future, because this will go on

3:24:17 Speaker 1: audio platforms, make sure to leave a like, a share, subscribe.

3:24:24 Speaker 1: You know, if you're listening to our podcast platform, you

3:24:26 Speaker 1: can rate and review. It really helps. It's all free.

3:24:30 Speaker 1: It takes you twenty seconds. You know, you have your

3:24:32 Speaker 1: phone in your hand already. There's no excuse that you

3:24:35 Speaker 1: can't do it. So help a brother out if you

3:24:37 Speaker 1: want to help out a little bit further, you can

3:24:40 Speaker 1: send a super chat or become a member, get early

3:24:43 Speaker 1: access to episodes, not like this which was live, but

3:24:47 Speaker 1: all the pre recorded stuff that I do. And then

3:24:51 Speaker 1: as we grow in the membership, I'd like to do

3:24:53 Speaker 1: some member only stuff. So I already started member only

3:24:56 Speaker 1: segments which you won't be doing today, but for the

3:25:01 Speaker 1: in person podcast, I've been doing a member only segment.

3:25:05 Speaker 2: Well, if you want to do a Q and A

3:25:07 Speaker 2: with a chat, I mean, I'll answer questions like you know,

3:25:11 Speaker 2: I yeah, it's a it's a long one.

3:25:14 Speaker 1: It's three thirty I hear. So I do have to

3:25:18 Speaker 1: I do have to hit it. But I wouldn't mind

3:25:21 Speaker 1: bringing you back. If you do want to do a

3:25:22 Speaker 1: Q and A as like a special, like a segment.

3:25:27 Speaker 2: I'm more than willing to do it. Okay, text me man.

3:25:30 Speaker 1: All right, we'll set it up. In the meantime. Thank

3:25:33 Speaker 1: you again. Reach out to some of those folks. Just

3:25:36 Speaker 1: get their initial reactions or they're like, hey, would you

3:25:40 Speaker 1: talk to this guy off the record, you know, so

3:25:42 Speaker 1: he can verify independently verify you know it, you know,

3:25:47 Speaker 1: just no pressure to do it. I don't want you

3:25:50 Speaker 1: to go out on a limb for anything, but if

3:25:52 Speaker 1: if you can't wiggle it in, let's wiggle it in

3:25:54 Speaker 1: and I'll start working on how we can make something

3:25:58 Speaker 1: bigger happen.

3:25:59 Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good.

3:26:01 Speaker 1: All right, everyone, see you on the other side. Stay humble,

3:26:04 Speaker 1: stay kind, stay vigilant. This is dedicated to Marilyn Salas