BOB LAZAR & Area 51: Jeremy Corbell & Joe Rogan- SPECIAL PRESENTATION

0:00 Speaker 1: Two one, boom, and we're live. First of all, cheers, gentlemen,

0:04 Speaker 1: let's have a little bit old toast. Relax. Bob, thank

0:08 Speaker 1: you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

0:09 Speaker 1: I understand that you've told the story many many times.

0:13 Speaker 1: You've been grilled many many times, and it's very stressful

0:17 Speaker 1: for you. So I really really appreciate your time. For

0:19 Speaker 1: people who don't know the story, there is a documentary.

0:24 Speaker 1: Jeremy Corbel has a documentary out right now. It's called

0:28 Speaker 1: Bob Lazar. Area fifty one and UFOs and Flying Saucers

0:32 Speaker 1: and Flag Saucers.

0:33 Speaker 2: These are fifty one and Flying Sky.

0:36 Speaker 1: I first heard your story decades ago. I've I told

0:40 Speaker 1: you last night we went out to dinner. I've seen

0:42 Speaker 1: pretty much every interview you've ever given. I've followed the

0:45 Speaker 1: story incredibly closely. But for people who don't know the story,

0:49 Speaker 1: let's give them the bullet points. You used to work

0:54 Speaker 1: at Area fifty one. An Area fifty one got you.

0:58 Speaker 3: You went like, well, you know, we want to be accurate.

1:01 Speaker 3: Area four S four it's about fifteen miles south of

1:05 Speaker 3: Area fifty.

1:06 Speaker 1: One, Okay, but you worked in what would you how

1:12 Speaker 1: would you describe it.

1:13 Speaker 3: I guess within the Area fifty one compound, you can

1:17 Speaker 3: call that a subset of Area fifty one.

1:20 Speaker 1: And you got that job before that, you were.

1:22 Speaker 3: Working before that. I had worked at Los Alamos National

1:26 Speaker 3: Labs in New Mexico.

1:28 Speaker 1: And you were involved in what kind.

1:30 Speaker 3: Of worked the nuclear weapon development physics. I mean that's

1:33 Speaker 3: they do everything there.

1:35 Speaker 1: So how do they approach you to say, hey, bomb

1:38 Speaker 1: once you come on out to the Nevada Desert.

1:42 Speaker 3: Well, the way this went down was, at that time,

1:48 Speaker 3: it was nineteen eighty two, I'd put a jet engine

1:54 Speaker 3: in my Honda and Los Alamos put it on the

1:59 Speaker 3: front page of the Paya said, you know, Los Alamos,

2:03 Speaker 3: man physicist at the lab. You know, built this two

2:06 Speaker 3: hundred mile an hour you know, on the jet car

2:09 Speaker 3: that I drove to work every day. So so I

2:13 Speaker 3: was known in Los Alamos the guy with the weird car.

2:16 Speaker 3: And you know you could hear it from you know,

2:18 Speaker 3: a mile away. Anyway, the day that came out on

2:23 Speaker 3: the front page of the paper was the day Edward Teller,

2:26 Speaker 3: the father of the hydrogen bomb, was giving a lecture

2:30 Speaker 3: down there at the lab. And we didn't have much

2:33 Speaker 3: going on that day in our group, and I asked

2:36 Speaker 3: if I could go down there. And I went down

2:40 Speaker 3: there early and Ed Teller was outside leaning on a

2:45 Speaker 3: brick wall there and reading the front page of the paper.

2:48 Speaker 3: Now there's a guy out a history. So I introduced myself. Hey,

2:51 Speaker 3: I'm the guy you're reading about there, and we talked

2:53 Speaker 3: for a little while and it was cool.

2:56 Speaker 1: You know.

2:56 Speaker 3: Fast forward to years later. I had moved out to

2:58 Speaker 3: Las Vegas and had you know, left Los Alamos and

3:02 Speaker 3: you know, went on to other things, and I wanted

3:04 Speaker 3: to get back into the scientific community, you know, I

3:07 Speaker 3: left to start other businesses and.

3:09 Speaker 4: And that sort of thing.

3:10 Speaker 3: So I sent resumes out and one of them went

3:13 Speaker 3: out to Ed Teller and referenced our meeting, you know,

3:17 Speaker 3: back back in the of the day. And anyway, he

3:20 Speaker 3: remembered me and gave me a reference somebody to contact

3:25 Speaker 3: at EGNG. And that's pretty much how it started.

3:30 Speaker 1: So you get a phone call or a letter, like

3:33 Speaker 1: what do you get?

3:36 Speaker 3: Well, I got a what did I get? I got

3:39 Speaker 3: a letter initially and went down for an interview probably

3:44 Speaker 3: a couple times, and it was down at EG and

3:46 Speaker 3: G Special Projects, which was at McCarron airport at that

3:50 Speaker 3: time in Las Vegas.

3:51 Speaker 1: And did they give you any sort of job description

3:54 Speaker 1: of what you were applying for.

3:56 Speaker 3: They said it was for ed I can't remember exactly

4:00 Speaker 3: what they did. This was a long time ago, but

4:02 Speaker 3: I think it was advanced propulsion or something like that,

4:07 Speaker 3: something relatively generic. And they said it's in a remote area.

4:12 Speaker 3: You know, it's going to be some days on, some

4:14 Speaker 3: days off, and you know, it was kind of a

4:19 Speaker 3: it was kind of not exactly a full time job,

4:22 Speaker 3: but you might have to be out there for two

4:23 Speaker 3: weeks at a time and take two weeks off, so

4:26 Speaker 3: it was kind of a the work schedule would be

4:29 Speaker 3: kind of broken up.

4:30 Speaker 1: And did it seem attracted you or did it seem weird?

4:34 Speaker 3: No, it really wasn't weird because people that work at

4:37 Speaker 3: the test site, anybody that's familiar with the area up there,

4:40 Speaker 3: you know, working at the nuclear test site or at

4:43 Speaker 3: the Tona pot test range north of there, that's typically

4:47 Speaker 3: how things go.

4:48 Speaker 1: So you had known about it from the scientific community

4:51 Speaker 1: because the area fifty one at that time was.

4:53 Speaker 3: No they did say anything about Area fifty one, okay,

4:55 Speaker 3: So they just said it was in a you know,

4:57 Speaker 3: in a remote location and you just know up at

5:00 Speaker 3: the test site, right. So, but there was no mention

5:03 Speaker 3: of Area fifty one at that time.

5:04 Speaker 1: So they've done hundreds of nuclear tests in Nevada and

5:08 Speaker 1: Nevada that that whole area was, there's been. There's giant

5:11 Speaker 1: chunks of Nevada that people.

5:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a big piece of Nevada and it's split

5:15 Speaker 3: up into different areas. There's a nuclear test site, there's

5:18 Speaker 3: Area fifty one, there's the Tona pot test range north

5:21 Speaker 3: of that, there's little sub areas, there's areas where they

5:23 Speaker 3: test chemical weapons and things like that. So it's all

5:26 Speaker 3: broken up as a you know, gigantic test area.

5:28 Speaker 1: So take me back to first day on the job.

5:32 Speaker 1: You accept the job, they take you out there.

5:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's.

5:39 Speaker 3: The first day. Really, I didn't really get to see

5:41 Speaker 3: a whole lot. The first day was essentially just paperwork.

5:44 Speaker 3: That's when I flew into Area fifty one proper and

5:47 Speaker 3: I left McCarran Airport and flew what they call the

5:51 Speaker 3: Janet flights, just you know, a passenger plane from Las

5:57 Speaker 3: Vegas to Area fifty one. And it was really just

6:01 Speaker 3: going through a mountain of paperwork that day, from security clearances,

6:06 Speaker 3: to god, there was. It was like two or three

6:10 Speaker 3: hours of just solid paperwork, and that was That was

6:13 Speaker 3: really an uneventful first day.

6:16 Speaker 1: When did things get weird? When did you realize at

6:23 Speaker 1: what point in time did you say, hey, this is

6:26 Speaker 1: not normal work, Like this doesn't even seem like it's

6:30 Speaker 1: from this planet that.

6:33 Speaker 3: I can't tell you what day that occurred on because

6:35 Speaker 3: so much time has gone by. The days of kind

6:38 Speaker 3: of fused into one and I can't separate.

6:41 Speaker 1: Was it a slow burn or was there a moment

6:44 Speaker 1: of recognition?

6:45 Speaker 3: Well? There. The first inkling I had was when I

6:50 Speaker 3: came in. Normally there's this facility that is at S four.

6:54 Speaker 3: It's in the side of a mountain, and normally we

6:58 Speaker 3: had pulled in the bus and gone around the front

7:01 Speaker 3: through a normal double door. This time that I went in,

7:06 Speaker 3: there were hanger doors open. I went in through the

7:09 Speaker 3: hangar door, and in the hanger door was the disc

7:12 Speaker 3: the flying saucer that I worked on. I saw it

7:15 Speaker 3: sitting there and we walked by. It had a little

7:17 Speaker 3: American flag stuck on the side, and I thought, oh

7:20 Speaker 3: my god, this finally explains all the flying saucer stories.

7:23 Speaker 3: This is just an advanced fighter and this is fucking hilarious.

7:28 Speaker 3: So I went by, I slipped my hand alongside it.

7:31 Speaker 3: I got reprimanded immediately for touching the thing. And there

7:35 Speaker 3: was a guy, an armed guard that followed us in

7:36 Speaker 3: and just said keep your eyes at forward, in your

7:39 Speaker 3: hands at your side, and just walk in the door.

7:41 Speaker 3: So that was the first time I had seen anything

7:44 Speaker 3: that was weird. It was some time later that I

7:49 Speaker 3: was introduced to my lab partner, Barry, and we had

7:54 Speaker 3: some of the subcomponents of the craft in the lab

7:58 Speaker 3: and Barry was very anxious to get a new lab partner,

8:02 Speaker 3: so he was very talkative and couldn't wait to show

8:04 Speaker 3: me different things. And it was in the demonstration of

8:07 Speaker 3: the reactor working where it caught my attention to where

8:13 Speaker 3: this is technology that doesn't even exist. So, I mean,

8:18 Speaker 3: that was the first time I knew that this is

8:20 Speaker 3: really something different.

8:22 Speaker 1: What was it? What was what was it about this

8:27 Speaker 1: reactor that made you think that it didn't exist technologically?

8:33 Speaker 3: Well, it was the I actually have to back up,

8:35 Speaker 3: because there were some briefings that I read it before

8:38 Speaker 3: that that, you know, certainly gave me the impression that

8:43 Speaker 3: this was going to be a weird job. But this

8:45 Speaker 3: was the first hands on thing. This was a small

8:48 Speaker 3: reactor about the size of a hemisphere, about the size

8:50 Speaker 3: of a basketball, on a metal plate, and when it

8:55 Speaker 3: was running, it produced a gravitational field, a gravitational field

8:58 Speaker 3: of its own. Now, this is something that we can't do.

9:01 Speaker 3: We can't produce any gravity. The only way we get

9:04 Speaker 3: gravity is from large quantities of mass. But there's no

9:08 Speaker 3: machine we can have that turns on that makes gravity.

9:11 Speaker 3: Like you know, you can turn on an electromagnet and

9:13 Speaker 3: it makes a magnetic field. We can't make a gravitational field. Anyway.

9:17 Speaker 3: This device was producing that, and Barry said, almost like

9:22 Speaker 3: he was bragging, go ahead, try and try and touch

9:25 Speaker 3: the sphere and I couldn't. It pushed my hands away,

9:28 Speaker 3: just like two light poles of a magnet.

9:30 Speaker 1: So that was, uh so like when you take two

9:31 Speaker 1: magnets and trying to press them together and there yeahs

9:34 Speaker 1: each other.

9:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of cushioned feeling, but you can't. You can't

9:37 Speaker 3: get them together. The closer you put them, the more

9:39 Speaker 3: they push.

9:40 Speaker 1: But you felt that physically with my hand.

9:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, Now there's nothing. There's nothing that does that. And

9:45 Speaker 3: that immediately caught my attention, going wow, this is something else.

9:49 Speaker 1: What was your thought like when you felt that and

9:51 Speaker 1: you knew that there was nothing that you were aware

9:54 Speaker 1: of that could produce.

9:55 Speaker 3: Then that connected me to the briefings that I read

9:59 Speaker 3: on the the first day at S four was that

10:03 Speaker 3: you know, everything that I had read was apparently accurate

10:06 Speaker 3: and what were you reading? I right, it was kind

10:09 Speaker 3: of an overview. This project was to back engineer the

10:15 Speaker 3: alien craft, and specifically it was to try and back

10:20 Speaker 3: engineer and see if we can duplicate the technology with

10:23 Speaker 3: available materials. Now, to do this, they split the project

10:28 Speaker 3: into you know, many different pieces for several reasons. They

10:33 Speaker 3: do this in all classified projects, so nobody has the

10:36 Speaker 3: complete story, but they compartmentalize everything. Now, we had the

10:41 Speaker 3: power and propulsion system, so what the briefings they gave

10:44 Speaker 3: me were like a one or two page overview of

10:46 Speaker 3: some of the other projects that were going on, you know,

10:49 Speaker 3: on the craft. The only reason they do that is

10:52 Speaker 3: just in case what you're working on is connected intimately

10:55 Speaker 3: in some way that we don't know if to one

10:57 Speaker 3: of the other projects. You have to know they're excuse me,

10:59 Speaker 3: there existence, So you know, I again, everything from metallurgy,

11:07 Speaker 3: to you know, weapon potential of the craft, and these

11:12 Speaker 3: were all, you know, essentially very short briefings. But mine

11:16 Speaker 3: was just power and propulsion, and it made it very

11:20 Speaker 3: clear that what I read was accurate.

11:23 Speaker 1: So when you're reading that before you actually saw the reactor,

11:28 Speaker 1: what were your thoughts on what they were describing. If

11:32 Speaker 1: you knew that something like that didn't exist and they're

11:36 Speaker 1: describing it in the briefings, what did you think you

11:38 Speaker 1: were going to see?

11:40 Speaker 3: I really I didn't know at the time. I mean

11:42 Speaker 3: I was reading, I thought, is this is some.

11:44 Speaker 1: Kind of test, see if you're crazy, well, not.

11:48 Speaker 3: To see if I'm crazy to you know, a lot

11:50 Speaker 3: of times they'll take in real high security jobs. I

11:55 Speaker 3: mean they'll intentionally insert nonsense into them, whether it's to

12:00 Speaker 3: confuse the fact or if for someone was to leak

12:02 Speaker 3: it out, they would carry that information along and know

12:05 Speaker 3: where it came from. So I read through the documents,

12:10 Speaker 3: but you know, I didn't know if this was you know,

12:12 Speaker 3: part of some kind of test or you know, or what,

12:17 Speaker 3: or was it potentially realistic. I mean I really didn't

12:20 Speaker 3: consider it being all that possible as far as being

12:25 Speaker 3: the actual thing that I was going.

12:27 Speaker 4: To work on at the time.

12:28 Speaker 1: How did they turn.

12:29 Speaker 3: It on the reactor? Yeah, the reactor could be turned

12:33 Speaker 3: on or turned off in a lot of different ways.

12:36 Speaker 3: The way Barry showed me, the hemisphere is removed. There's

12:40 Speaker 3: a small tower in the middle. When you put the

12:42 Speaker 3: hemisphere on, the reactor activates. The reactor shuts down. It's

12:48 Speaker 3: load sensing, so if there's if there's no load on

12:52 Speaker 3: the reactor at all, it shuts down. When there's a

12:54 Speaker 3: load present on it, it starts up again. Load meaning

12:58 Speaker 3: you can consider it an electrical load. So although it

13:03 Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily operate electrically, there's no wiring that connects any

13:09 Speaker 3: of the subcomponents together whatsoever. They just have to be

13:11 Speaker 3: in the immediate vicinity. It's a it is, but the

13:15 Speaker 3: stuff is borderline magic and that's essentially where we left it,

13:20 Speaker 3: you know when I left the project.

13:23 Speaker 1: So there was no progress made.

13:25 Speaker 3: There was some progress, I mean, we did identify at

13:28 Speaker 3: least we think some processes and had a rough idea

13:32 Speaker 3: we think of what was going on. But I think

13:35 Speaker 3: this is a problem that they've had for a long time.

13:39 Speaker 3: And you know, I was replacing somebody that Barry worked

13:44 Speaker 3: with prior to me, and I think there was some

13:46 Speaker 3: horrific accident that I didn't have a whole lot of

13:49 Speaker 3: information on, but you know, Barry alluded to.

13:52 Speaker 1: That, a horrific accident like where someone.

13:55 Speaker 3: Died or yeah, where somebody died.

13:57 Speaker 1: Because they were trying to tamper with things or figure

13:59 Speaker 1: out how something worked.

14:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, the reactor in particular, but yet he let you

14:04 Speaker 3: touch it. Yeah. I think what they were trying to

14:07 Speaker 3: do was cut into one. Now they had they had

14:10 Speaker 3: more than one there, and that was supposedly there was

14:13 Speaker 3: an unannounced nuclear test, and that's what it was at

14:18 Speaker 3: the time. I remember they were still doing an underground

14:19 Speaker 3: nuclear test at the test site. But from what I understand,

14:24 Speaker 3: according to Barry, there was an attempt made. Now, this

14:26 Speaker 3: must have been a pretty desperate attent because it's not

14:29 Speaker 3: a very scientific process to cut, you know, analyze something

14:33 Speaker 3: that way. But it looked like they used a plasma

14:35 Speaker 3: cutter or something. I got to cut into an operating reactor.

14:39 Speaker 1: How many of these things did they have?

14:41 Speaker 3: They had nine, nine craft altogether. I only got hands

14:44 Speaker 3: on with one of them, so I can't really say

14:48 Speaker 3: what the how the others operated.

14:50 Speaker 1: Did you see the other ones.

14:51 Speaker 3: Yeah, at one time, and only one time, the bay

14:54 Speaker 3: doors that between the hangars were all open and I

14:57 Speaker 3: could see all the way through.

15:00 Speaker 1: When were they all exactly the same?

15:02 Speaker 3: No, they were all different, different shapes.

15:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, but they were all from somewhere else. Yeah.

15:08 Speaker 4: Absolutely.

15:09 Speaker 1: Now did anyone make any attempt to explain or to

15:15 Speaker 1: tell you where they came from?

15:17 Speaker 3: No, no, no one is the least bit interested in

15:20 Speaker 3: letting everybody know all the facts. They want to give

15:23 Speaker 3: you the minimum information that's necessary to complete your task.

15:26 Speaker 3: So you're not getting the story of where they came from.

15:29 Speaker 3: You're not getting the story of how much progress other

15:32 Speaker 3: people are making. You just focus on the small component.

15:36 Speaker 1: But they gave you some indication that they've been working

15:38 Speaker 1: on these for a while. Yeah, when do you think

15:42 Speaker 1: they acquired these?

15:45 Speaker 3: I really couldn't say. I think they've been around for

15:48 Speaker 3: a while.

15:50 Speaker 1: So they bring you into this room, You see this

15:55 Speaker 1: reactor working. You realize this is nothing that as far

15:59 Speaker 1: as like the scientific community at current time has the

16:03 Speaker 1: ability to create, we still don't. What is your life

16:07 Speaker 1: like from that moment on? Is that where everything changes?

16:10 Speaker 1: Because you do you? I mean, I would imagine the

16:12 Speaker 1: moment you actually make contact was something that's extraterrestrial, whether

16:17 Speaker 1: it's an object or a being, something where you can

16:19 Speaker 1: actually absolutely be certain it's not from here. Your whole paradigm,

16:25 Speaker 1: the whole world you live in is now a different place.

16:28 Speaker 3: Well, this is the only time it became exciting. You know,

16:31 Speaker 3: the rest of the time it was really an ominous

16:35 Speaker 3: feeling being at work. But at that time it was exciting.

16:39 Speaker 3: I mean, this was now I knew we were on

16:42 Speaker 3: the absolute beyond, actually beyond the cutting edge of science,

16:45 Speaker 3: and I was I was so absolutely excited to be there.

16:49 Speaker 3: Every single time I was, you know, this was a

16:54 Speaker 3: fantastic opportunity. And however, in short order it began to

17:02 Speaker 3: concern me. We really have no idea what we're talking about,

17:08 Speaker 3: and the excitement kind of turned to dread at some

17:13 Speaker 3: point because the amount of power we're dealing with is astronomical.

17:19 Speaker 3: I mean, to affect gravity, to produce the effects like

17:22 Speaker 3: this equipment does, takes huge amounts of power. And I've

17:27 Speaker 3: given the example before of you know, taking a small

17:32 Speaker 3: portable nuclear reactor and you know, putting it back into

17:35 Speaker 3: Victorian times, you know, with the scientists of the time

17:38 Speaker 3: and just dropping it in a room and they come

17:41 Speaker 3: and look at it and see that it's producing power

17:44 Speaker 3: and wonder how it works. That they start taking it apart,

17:47 Speaker 3: and as soon as they get some of the shielding off,

17:50 Speaker 3: the people are going to drop dead because of the

17:52 Speaker 3: radiation inside. Now people have no idea that radiation even

17:57 Speaker 3: exists back then, but anybody that comes into to check

18:00 Speaker 3: on him will also drop dead. And you know, there's

18:05 Speaker 3: no reason that that exact scenario couldn't happen with what

18:08 Speaker 3: we're dealing with. We have no idea how the physics

18:12 Speaker 3: operate within this thing. The power levels are are, like

18:16 Speaker 3: I said, astronomical, Like it's incredibly dangerous to tinker with

18:19 Speaker 3: something like that.

18:21 Speaker 4: And you know, in.

18:22 Speaker 3: Some respects we were guinea pigs just try to find

18:25 Speaker 3: out how to make this thing.

18:26 Speaker 1: So they had had a series, as far as you're surmised,

18:30 Speaker 1: they had a series of different scientists try to back

18:33 Speaker 1: engineer this thing, try to figure out what this thing was.

18:35 Speaker 1: And they would bring in new people and like, let's

18:37 Speaker 1: throw Bob at it.

18:38 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and they I don't know how many, but

18:41 Speaker 3: I knew there was certainly one before me, and I

18:44 Speaker 3: knew he died during the analysis.

18:46 Speaker 4: Of the or the reactor itself, and.

18:51 Speaker 1: You don't know how many have worked on it and

18:53 Speaker 1: no one gave it.

18:55 Speaker 3: This could have been there for fifty years, It could

18:58 Speaker 3: have been there for five years.

19:00 Speaker 1: Instructions, what are they saying, like when they're giving you direction,

19:03 Speaker 1: they're showing you all this stuff, like, what what are

19:05 Speaker 1: they saying specifically? What are they asking of you?

19:08 Speaker 3: Well, essentially what they ask is what I said. We

19:11 Speaker 3: are just together as much information as possible, find out

19:14 Speaker 3: how it operates, and see if we can duplicate it.

19:16 Speaker 1: So but the you where it was from, They never

19:20 Speaker 1: let you ask questions about where it's from.

19:22 Speaker 3: Well, if the information I read in the briefings was accurate.

19:28 Speaker 3: Now what I do have to say is the information

19:30 Speaker 3: that pertained directly to the reactor was accurate.

19:34 Speaker 4: What I read.

19:37 Speaker 3: Did, I mean, did jive with reality in terms of

19:42 Speaker 3: how in terms of how it was made, how what

19:45 Speaker 3: we saw, how it operated, the materials, how it you know,

19:48 Speaker 3: turned on, and.

19:50 Speaker 4: What was discovered discovered about it.

19:54 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the migraine is really making it hard for

19:56 Speaker 3: me to think care.

19:57 Speaker 1: Sorry, No, we talked that before the podcast. You tell

20:00 Speaker 1: her buddy Bob was getting a migraine. I know you're

20:02 Speaker 1: very stressed out by this, which is one of the

20:03 Speaker 1: reasons why I appreciate you doing this.

20:07 Speaker 3: Where was I already we're talking about, right, and so

20:12 Speaker 3: there was some paperwork that indicated that this was from

20:16 Speaker 3: the Zeta Reticularly star system. Now, yeah, now how they

20:22 Speaker 3: obtained that, haven't I haven't the slightest idea. But it

20:26 Speaker 3: wasn't just from the Zeta Reticularly star system. It was

20:29 Speaker 3: what they called ZR three, so it was a third

20:32 Speaker 3: planet in that star system. So there was no other

20:36 Speaker 3: information about it other than that's supposedly where the craft

20:40 Speaker 3: came from. Now is that true?

20:41 Speaker 4: I don't know.

20:42 Speaker 3: I have no way of verifying that. But that was

20:43 Speaker 3: printed in the same materials that reference the reactor. Now

20:47 Speaker 3: I looked that stuff up when I went home, and

20:51 Speaker 3: Zaeta Reticularly is a binary star, two stars at orbit

20:56 Speaker 3: orbit one another, and it's only visible in the southern

20:58 Speaker 3: hemisphere and it's about thirty mod light years away. So

21:01 Speaker 3: that's literally all the information I have about that. I

21:04 Speaker 3: don't know how they found out it came from there.

21:07 Speaker 1: And you also probably have some suspicions that they give

21:10 Speaker 1: you some disinformation, like you were talking about before where

21:13 Speaker 1: they were yeah, yeah too. I mean, if you ever

21:16 Speaker 1: decided to talk about this, they added a bunch of

21:18 Speaker 1: nonsense to make whatever is factual look ridiculous.

21:22 Speaker 3: Right, or be able to trace it down. They go, hey,

21:24 Speaker 3: this facts came out and you know this Lazar guy

21:27 Speaker 3: said it, you know, came from Zata Reticularly, so they

21:29 Speaker 3: knew it was.

21:30 Speaker 1: When we read Zeta Reticularly, We're like, what in the

21:33 Speaker 1: fuck is this?

21:35 Speaker 3: Well, reading all of this stuff, it was, what the.

21:38 Speaker 4: Fuck is this?

21:38 Speaker 1: You're like, why did I sign up for this?

21:40 Speaker 3: No, no, it would to me.

21:42 Speaker 4: This was cool. This was interesting.

21:43 Speaker 3: I said, I was just excited to be out in

21:45 Speaker 3: a secure area, you know, in the middle of the desert.

21:48 Speaker 3: I said, this is awesome. How old are you time

21:50 Speaker 3: I get as in my twenties.

21:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably totally geeked out.

21:55 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this was this was great. I mean I

21:59 Speaker 3: was excited, so I didn't care. I'm reading through everything, and.

22:02 Speaker 1: So you read through all the Zata Reticular thing. But

22:04 Speaker 1: then when you see the actual starship with the little

22:06 Speaker 1: American flagsticker on it, well that was was that later

22:10 Speaker 1: or before.

22:13 Speaker 3: That?

22:14 Speaker 4: That was before?

22:16 Speaker 1: So before so you see the thing before and you say, oh,

22:19 Speaker 1: before it hard so many years. Yeah, I can't either way,

22:23 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.

22:24 Speaker 3: The days have fused together. It's so hard to separate

22:27 Speaker 3: what happened in each visit.

22:28 Speaker 1: Do you remember the thought process when you read that

22:30 Speaker 1: it's from Zeta reticuli, Yeah, it it.

22:33 Speaker 3: It didn't hit me like a ton of bricks or anything.

22:36 Speaker 3: It's it's like, yeah, okay, he was bullshit.

22:39 Speaker 1: I don't know now.

22:41 Speaker 3: I don't. I mean because when I read it, I

22:44 Speaker 3: hadn't verified anything, and this was just a bunch of

22:46 Speaker 3: stuff I was reading, and I thought, maybe after this,

22:48 Speaker 3: they're just going to give me a test and see

22:50 Speaker 3: what I can remember in crazy information, and then it

22:54 Speaker 3: would But like I said, when I finally went in

22:58 Speaker 3: with Barry and had hands on experience with what they

23:04 Speaker 3: were talking about, it gone a completely different meaning.

23:08 Speaker 1: So there's a plate, there's this thing that looks like

23:10 Speaker 1: half of basketball and when it's on, you can't come

23:13 Speaker 1: anywhere near it, you can't touch it. Right, How is

23:16 Speaker 1: what is gravity about that? Like the concept of gravity

23:20 Speaker 1: to most people's, gravity is bringing something.

23:22 Speaker 3: Towards it, right, Well, I guess you would say it's

23:24 Speaker 3: anti gravity. It's gravity shifted one hundred and eighty degrees.

23:27 Speaker 3: It's a you know, anti gravity.

23:31 Speaker 1: And did they have any understanding about what could possibly

23:36 Speaker 1: create this effect? Did they have any areas where they'd

23:40 Speaker 1: like you to look into.

23:42 Speaker 3: No, they well, they knew there was a fuel source

23:49 Speaker 3: in it, and they were proficient at making it work.

23:54 Speaker 3: And again, my analogy to something like this is you

23:56 Speaker 3: can drop a motorcycle off in the wagon train days

23:59 Speaker 3: and just leave it with the keys parked outside somebody's place.

24:03 Speaker 3: Everybody'll come around it and they'll poke and prod and

24:05 Speaker 3: eventually they'll turn the key, get it to start, and

24:09 Speaker 3: become proficient at writing it. Yeah, but they won't be

24:12 Speaker 3: able to understand what the hell's going on. They won't

24:15 Speaker 3: be able to make the plastic fender, much less anything else.

24:19 Speaker 3: And I think that's exactly the state we were at.

24:21 Speaker 3: We played around with the parts long enough before I

24:24 Speaker 3: got there where they could make the reactor operate, take

24:28 Speaker 3: the fuel out, and know that it makes it work.

24:32 Speaker 3: How exactly what was going on in the reactor remained

24:37 Speaker 3: a mystery at the time. I think we made some

24:41 Speaker 3: progress on what was going on inside, but I don't

24:45 Speaker 3: think anybody really knew anything. They could just watch what

24:48 Speaker 3: was going on and make note of it. How long

24:51 Speaker 3: were you there, I'd say about six months or so.

24:54 Speaker 1: And what progress was made while you were there?

24:57 Speaker 3: Well, we came up with a bunch of reasonably good

25:02 Speaker 3: ideas about how the reactor worked, and one of them

25:06 Speaker 3: was the base. The square base of it was essentially

25:09 Speaker 3: like a cyclotron, which is a small particle accelerator a

25:13 Speaker 3: circular one. Particle accelerators or linear particle accelerators are just

25:17 Speaker 3: you know, long tube essentially, and they accelerate particles with

25:21 Speaker 3: high voltagen you know, radio frequencies till they reach high speeds.

25:25 Speaker 3: But a cyclotron does that in a small circular area.

25:29 Speaker 3: And there's this very heavy element fuel element one point

25:33 Speaker 3: fifteen something that wasn't on our periodic charts at the time,

25:37 Speaker 3: but it is now it is now.

25:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, when did it become on the periodic table? Now?

25:42 Speaker 3: The way the charts now, you know, I don't remember.

25:45 Speaker 3: Do you remember when they.

25:46 Speaker 2: Two thousand and four dermstat Germany, I think is where

25:49 Speaker 2: they first fabricated four atoms. They lasted two hundred twenty

25:52 Speaker 2: milliseconds with the atoms. It's nothing right and then it

25:56 Speaker 2: later was discovered a couple more times. They could fabricate it.

25:59 Speaker 2: Then they gave it. They gave it a place then

26:01 Speaker 2: on the periodic chart after that called it Moscovian.

26:04 Speaker 1: So they told you about this stuff in nineteen eighty two.

26:10 Speaker 3: Yeah, well.

26:12 Speaker 1: What year was this?

26:13 Speaker 3: It was eighty eight and eighty nine when I was there,

26:16 Speaker 3: eighty two when you lost Alamos.

26:18 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, so eighty eighty nine they told you

26:21 Speaker 1: about this stuff. So this was not like, no, they didn't.

26:23 Speaker 1: They didn't tell me about it. That's one of the

26:26 Speaker 1: things that this group came up with. The God I

26:32 Speaker 1: keep losing my train of thought with this thing. So

26:34 Speaker 1: this one area, this this element one fifteen was the fuel.

26:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was the fuel.

26:51 Speaker 2: The world will forgive you for having a migrant, can

26:56 Speaker 2: give you more, baksh I say, what yeah, definitely. As

26:58 Speaker 2: I say, one thing, you know, for the last thirty years,

27:02 Speaker 2: people have just been on the attack on Bob, you know,

27:05 Speaker 2: getting to know him, the personal effects on his life.

27:07 Speaker 2: It's really hard to understand unless you meet his family

27:10 Speaker 2: and his wife. I mean, this is the last thing

27:13 Speaker 2: he wanted to fucking do was have to talk.

27:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, we should explain that Jeremy, you and I had

27:18 Speaker 1: this conversation. I watched your documentary. We had this conversation,

27:22 Speaker 1: and I said, I have to talk to him. Yeah,

27:24 Speaker 1: the document there was there's been detractors. There's been a

27:28 Speaker 1: bunch of people that called bullshit on many of the

27:30 Speaker 1: things that you've said. But over time, many of the

27:34 Speaker 1: things that you talked about, even in the eighties have

27:37 Speaker 1: proven to be true. Things that people said were not

27:40 Speaker 1: true were proven to be true. Element one fifteen was

27:43 Speaker 1: one of them, right.

27:45 Speaker 3: Right, right?

27:46 Speaker 1: Uh.

27:46 Speaker 3: Element one fifteen, the fuel they had was stable. In

27:50 Speaker 3: other words, it didn't decay, it wasn't emitting radioactivity. When

27:54 Speaker 3: they synthesized the two or three atoms of the one fifteen,

27:59 Speaker 3: it did decay and it was not a stable element.

28:02 Speaker 3: So they're kind of two different things. But this is

28:05 Speaker 3: kind of typical. Elements always have or pretty much always

28:09 Speaker 3: have stable isotopes and unstable isotopes, like I think caesium

28:14 Speaker 3: has like thirty unstable isotopes to it. So well, hydrogen,

28:18 Speaker 3: for example, you're familiar with hydrogen gas. It's stable, it's

28:23 Speaker 3: not radioactive, but there's also two other types of hydrogen,

28:28 Speaker 3: deuterium and tritium, and deuterium isn't radioactive. It's another stable isotope, hydrogen,

28:34 Speaker 3: but tritium is radioactive. Now they're all hydrogen, but they

28:38 Speaker 3: just have different amounts of neutrons. So it's the same

28:41 Speaker 3: thing with other elements and element one fifteen, depending on

28:45 Speaker 3: the amount of neutrons it has, designates the isotope, but

28:50 Speaker 3: it's one fifteen. They will continue to take or experiment

28:56 Speaker 3: and try and make one fifteen at different isotopes, and

28:59 Speaker 3: I'm sure eventually they'll come up with a stable version.

29:02 Speaker 3: But it's the stable version that has the properties that

29:05 Speaker 3: we're talking about.

29:06 Speaker 1: So they somehow or another had acquired a stable version.

29:10 Speaker 1: Did they say that the stable version had come with

29:12 Speaker 1: this craft?

29:12 Speaker 4: It absolutely came with the graft.

29:14 Speaker 3: Yeah.

29:14 Speaker 1: So at the time, you having a firm knowledge of

29:18 Speaker 1: the periodic chart and knowing what was real and what

29:21 Speaker 1: wasn't real, what was your reaction to having this stable

29:24 Speaker 1: element one point fifteen that wasn't even supposed to exist.

29:27 Speaker 3: Well, everything was impossible, right, I mean down to the metal.

29:31 Speaker 3: I did get a chance to look inside the craft

29:35 Speaker 3: on only one occasion, and this was important because where

29:40 Speaker 3: the reactors sat might have been critical to how it operated,

29:44 Speaker 3: since everything operates without any interconnection, so the placement of

29:48 Speaker 3: components might be critical. So they allowed me to go

29:52 Speaker 3: inside and look at it again.

29:56 Speaker 4: I forgot where the hell I am.

29:58 Speaker 1: So you're going into this craft? And what are you

30:01 Speaker 1: thinking when you're inside of it? Like, what are you seeing?

30:04 Speaker 3: It's a very ominous feeling because it's there are no

30:10 Speaker 3: First of all, everything is one color. It's like a

30:13 Speaker 3: dark pewter color, and there are no right angles anywhere.

30:18 Speaker 3: It's as if somebody took I've said this before, somebody

30:21 Speaker 3: took a model out of and fashioned it out of

30:25 Speaker 3: wax and then heated it just for a short time,

30:27 Speaker 3: so everything melted. Everything looks like it's fused together. Everything

30:31 Speaker 3: is a radius of curvature where two items meet. It's

30:36 Speaker 3: a really weird looking thing, but there was almost nothing

30:44 Speaker 3: other than a small foldable hatchway that that looked recognizable.

30:50 Speaker 3: Everything was was really unworldy to pick on it a

30:55 Speaker 3: way to describe it.

30:57 Speaker 1: So you get inside this thing and it's designed for

31:00 Speaker 1: something that's much smaller than a human being.

31:02 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't really stand up till you get to

31:04 Speaker 3: the very center of it.

31:05 Speaker 1: And I'll tall you. I'm five ten and what do

31:08 Speaker 1: you think this was designed for?

31:10 Speaker 3: I'd say something close to half my height.

31:12 Speaker 1: Wow, So these little three foot tallish creatures.

31:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the seats were small too, I mean obviously

31:20 Speaker 3: it was made, you know, for something something small. But

31:23 Speaker 3: there is no like, there's there's nothing else in there.

31:28 Speaker 3: There's just seats, the reactor and some of the subcomponents.

31:31 Speaker 3: There's no there's no control panels, there's no bathroom, there's

31:34 Speaker 3: no no decorative components or artwork or anything that you

31:39 Speaker 3: would recognize or trim. I mean, it's just a very

31:42 Speaker 3: bare bones thing.

31:44 Speaker 1: You're not seeing any screens.

31:47 Speaker 3: Well, there are archways around it that are part of

31:50 Speaker 3: the superstructure, and that one of the archways can become transparent.

31:56 Speaker 3: When I was in there, there was another group working

31:59 Speaker 3: on one of the archways, and you could call that

32:03 Speaker 3: a screen more or less.

32:05 Speaker 1: So through that archway it would be it would maintain

32:09 Speaker 1: the solidity, the solid whatever metal it was.

32:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you could see it just became transparent.

32:16 Speaker 4: Yeah.

32:16 Speaker 3: I saw that happen once or twice before I left.

32:19 Speaker 1: Did you ask any questions about what the fund?

32:21 Speaker 3: No, there's no asking.

32:22 Speaker 1: There's no asking questions. Now, but when you watch something

32:25 Speaker 1: become transparent and you realize it's still there but you

32:28 Speaker 1: can now see through it.

32:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, now that's not that impressive. We do

32:32 Speaker 3: have some liquid crystal materials that are like that. You

32:35 Speaker 3: know they have smart glass.

32:37 Speaker 4: Yeah, they call it smart class.

32:39 Speaker 3: So this is just and I don't know if the

32:41 Speaker 3: craft is made of, you know, an advanced metal or

32:44 Speaker 3: a ceramic. It was cold to the chuch, so you know,

32:48 Speaker 3: I would lean more.

32:49 Speaker 4: Towards a metal.

32:50 Speaker 1: You're not allowed to ask questions, no.

32:52 Speaker 3: The only they work on the buddy system, so I

32:55 Speaker 3: can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry. Now this

33:00 Speaker 3: really interferes with science because science is based on free

33:03 Speaker 3: discussion and ideally you get a bunch of guys together,

33:06 Speaker 3: exchange ideas, work on problems, and that's how things move forward.

33:10 Speaker 3: But they're still over the top concerned about security. They

33:14 Speaker 3: split everything off and everybody becomes stagnant. It just destroys

33:22 Speaker 3: any of the progress you can make, or at least

33:24 Speaker 3: makes it go so slow. I think they wind up

33:28 Speaker 3: shooting themselves in the foot.

33:29 Speaker 1: Which is probably why they arrived at this bottleneck that

33:33 Speaker 1: they needed to get this madman with a jet powered

33:36 Speaker 1: Honda come in and see what he could do.

33:38 Speaker 3: I think that was an act of desperation. I think

33:40 Speaker 3: they wanted someone that thinks out of the box and

33:42 Speaker 3: let's just give this guy a try here, because they weren't,

33:45 Speaker 3: and they might have done this four more times since,

33:50 Speaker 3: you know, up to the point in time today, assuming

33:52 Speaker 3: they're still working on this thing.

33:54 Speaker 1: And when you see this craft and you're inside, was

33:58 Speaker 1: there any indication that there was an area that they

34:02 Speaker 1: would use to control it to pilot? Was there a

34:05 Speaker 1: pilot seat?

34:07 Speaker 3: There were three seats they sat around the reactor was

34:10 Speaker 3: in the dead center of it, and then equidistant around

34:14 Speaker 3: there were three seats and that's all. There was a

34:19 Speaker 3: large you would they're not consoles. There are large rectangular

34:23 Speaker 3: objects also spaced equidistant around the center. There's nothing on them,

34:28 Speaker 3: there's no buttons, there's no lights, The control everything is

34:32 Speaker 3: the same. And directly underneath them, there's three levels in

34:38 Speaker 3: the craft. The main level is that we're talking about.

34:42 Speaker 3: Directly under that, those are the gravity amplifiers. The big

34:46 Speaker 3: rectangular objects underneath them are the gravity emitters that look like,

34:51 Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, a trash can hanging

34:53 Speaker 3: on a pipe. Three of those and then the top layer.

34:58 Speaker 3: This is just my personal belief if I think that

35:00 Speaker 3: has to do with a navigation or their version of

35:04 Speaker 3: a computer with some planar panels sensor panels around the

35:09 Speaker 3: craft that we would call portholes, but they're not portholes.

35:12 Speaker 4: They're just black areas.

35:14 Speaker 3: And I think that just determines it's you know, position

35:17 Speaker 3: in space. But I was, I physically was in the

35:21 Speaker 3: center section and I stuck my torso in the bottom

35:25 Speaker 3: section and hung upside down so I could see how

35:27 Speaker 3: the gravity amplifiers were positioned.

35:30 Speaker 1: What is they? Roughly? The size of this thing?

35:32 Speaker 3: It's I think it. I don't remember from being there.

35:36 Speaker 3: But after all this stuff was over, I had John Andrews,

35:41 Speaker 3: a guy from the Testers Model Corporation, and you know,

35:43 Speaker 3: we sat down and tried to figure out from what

35:47 Speaker 3: I saw and known sizes of things, and we came

35:51 Speaker 3: up with fifty two feet in diameter. So I think

35:55 Speaker 3: that's yeah.

35:56 Speaker 4: So I think that's a fair reasonable guess.

36:00 Speaker 1: There's nine of them, and you got a brief glimpse

36:02 Speaker 1: at the other ones. How are they different?

36:05 Speaker 3: Oh? They looked completely different. One looked like I called

36:09 Speaker 3: a jello mold, and it looked like a classic jello

36:12 Speaker 3: mold with the rippled sides to it. One was a

36:15 Speaker 3: very flat disc, you know, like uh oh, I don't know,

36:21 Speaker 3: like a straw hat or something like that, that was

36:23 Speaker 3: sitting up on its edge and the thin part of

36:26 Speaker 3: it had it looked like a projectile had been fired

36:29 Speaker 3: through the edge of it. So I don't know if

36:32 Speaker 3: they were attempting to see if the metal could be

36:35 Speaker 3: penetrated or if something or if that's where the thing

36:39 Speaker 3: came from. Maybe it was shot down, But that was

36:42 Speaker 3: the only one where I saw there was, you know,

36:44 Speaker 3: actual physical damage to it.

36:46 Speaker 1: And that one was roughly the same size.

36:49 Speaker 4: They're all, ah, they were kind of too far away

36:51 Speaker 4: to tell.

36:53 Speaker 1: And did there was several teams that were working on

36:56 Speaker 1: the propulsion system, so there was different teams that were

36:59 Speaker 1: working on these different aircrafts. I don't don't know.

37:02 Speaker 4: I could only assume.

37:05 Speaker 1: Now, when you're sitting in this thing and you're looking

37:09 Speaker 1: at this otherworldly craft, your goals to try to figure

37:14 Speaker 1: out how this thing functions. Your goals to try to

37:17 Speaker 1: figure out how this reactor. I mean, he would imagine

37:21 Speaker 1: they would give you more time than just one day

37:23 Speaker 1: to check that out.

37:24 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it wasn't one day, right, Yeah, I mean

37:27 Speaker 3: this is Barry was there. I think Barry was sleeping there.

37:31 Speaker 3: I'm sure they had. Now that that isn't weird. I mean, oh,

37:35 Speaker 3: but the tone of pot test range where they work

37:36 Speaker 3: on stealth fighters. You know, you go, I think three

37:40 Speaker 3: weeks on, one week off, and you stay up there too,

37:43 Speaker 3: So it's not weird to stay up with the test site.

37:45 Speaker 3: So yeah, I think he pretty with it, and he

37:48 Speaker 3: acted like he's been up there for a long time.

37:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, but still there.

37:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, who knows you?

37:55 Speaker 1: Do you have contact with this guy? No?

37:57 Speaker 3: Oh no, I wish I did. I kind of thought

37:59 Speaker 3: he was going to come out after I did, and

38:03 Speaker 3: I think I took so much flak and it's so

38:06 Speaker 3: much shit for what went on. I think actually I

38:10 Speaker 3: wound up helping security there and everybody became afraid of,

38:14 Speaker 3: you know, doing or saying anything after that.

38:17 Speaker 1: So what kind of reports did you have to give? Like,

38:20 Speaker 1: so you're not making much progress, right, You're just trying

38:23 Speaker 1: to figure out what this thing is and it seems impossible.

38:25 Speaker 3: So well, we didn't personally make them. I mean we

38:28 Speaker 3: were always there was never a lot of information that

38:32 Speaker 3: we gained. The guy you would call him our supervisor.

38:37 Speaker 3: His name was Dennis Marianni and kind of a military

38:41 Speaker 3: looking guy, and he would routinely pop in, you know,

38:45 Speaker 3: during the day and you know, hey, what's going on, guys,

38:48 Speaker 3: and he would essentially relay enter any information, anything new

38:52 Speaker 3: we came up with. I mean, he was our go

38:54 Speaker 3: between where we presented him the information, then he took

38:58 Speaker 3: it to wherever they were assembling all the data from everybody.

39:02 Speaker 1: Now, I assume you're working normal days, like an eight

39:05 Speaker 1: hour day.

39:05 Speaker 3: No, no, no, it was really weird that I would

39:09 Speaker 3: be only called in on certain times in certain days,

39:12 Speaker 3: and they would be weird hours too. Most of the

39:15 Speaker 3: time was later in the evening. I mean, I can

39:17 Speaker 3: get a call at eleven o'clock at night and they'll say,

39:20 Speaker 3: you know, it's now eleven o'clock. By eleven forty five,

39:25 Speaker 3: you need to be at mccaren.

39:26 Speaker 4: Terminal and you know, we'll let you know when we

39:31 Speaker 4: have more information.

39:32 Speaker 1: But what did you do while you were there? If

39:35 Speaker 1: you're looking at this object, this reactor, and you can't

39:40 Speaker 1: figure out what it is or how it works, other

39:42 Speaker 1: than the fact that it works on this element that

39:44 Speaker 1: we don't even know about.

39:46 Speaker 3: Sure, I mean the thing was to what you do.

39:48 Speaker 3: And you know, with anything, if you're trying to analyze it,

39:53 Speaker 3: all you can do is perform tests. And all we

39:56 Speaker 3: did is try and come up with every kind of

39:58 Speaker 3: test we possibly could. I mean, we tested, you know it.

40:03 Speaker 3: It violated a lot of what we thought was impossible

40:07 Speaker 3: to violate. I mean, one of the first laws of thermodynamics.

40:10 Speaker 3: I mean essentially, any machine, any device that operates, always

40:14 Speaker 3: makes extra heat. Nothing works at one hundred percent efficient,

40:19 Speaker 3: even the headphones you're wearing. Anything that takes power, some

40:23 Speaker 3: of that power is going to be converted to heat

40:25 Speaker 3: and it's just wasted. This didn't I mean, we looked

40:29 Speaker 3: at back then we had infrared cameras. They're different today,

40:32 Speaker 3: but back then you had to pour liquid nitrogen into

40:35 Speaker 3: the camera to cool the sensor down and get these

40:39 Speaker 3: infrared images you've seen. But it never got no matter

40:43 Speaker 3: what the load was on the reactor, it never got

40:46 Speaker 3: above ambient temperature, which is impossible. I mean you're, you know,

40:52 Speaker 3: pulling out huge amounts of power and nothing ever gets warm.

40:57 Speaker 3: We tried measuring magnetic fields and was nothing there. So

41:01 Speaker 3: we started playing around with the emission from the emitters,

41:05 Speaker 3: the gravity way of itself, and saw what we could

41:09 Speaker 3: do with it and how it was focused. So we

41:11 Speaker 3: really spent all our time just trying to see what

41:16 Speaker 3: the stuff can do and what we can control.

41:19 Speaker 1: So you were seeing what it could do when you

41:21 Speaker 1: couldn't ever figure out how it was doing it.

41:24 Speaker 3: No, not really, I mean we really could only use

41:28 Speaker 3: a come up with the best guess. Now, I can't

41:32 Speaker 3: say we really that I could absolutely state for certainly

41:37 Speaker 3: or certainty how anything actually worked.

41:40 Speaker 1: Now, how did you know at all how they were

41:44 Speaker 1: piloting it? Because some they were doing some tests where

41:49 Speaker 1: they were having these things fly around in the sky.

41:53 Speaker 1: And this is what gets us deeper into your story.

41:57 Speaker 3: Right, I was out there for one test. Right, In fact,

42:06 Speaker 3: I was in with Barry in the lab and Dennis

42:09 Speaker 3: came in and said, we're about to run the test.

42:12 Speaker 3: Why don't you guys come out, or I think he said, Barry,

42:15 Speaker 3: why don't you come out here and bring Bob with you.

42:19 Speaker 3: We went out there and the craft was already outside

42:23 Speaker 3: the hangar and was just preparing to lift off. Now

42:27 Speaker 3: they were in communication with somebody in the craft.

42:30 Speaker 1: So there's a person in the crowd.

42:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was certainly a person in there. Now, it's

42:35 Speaker 3: not a comfortable place to be in because it's small,

42:38 Speaker 3: so the guy has to be sitting on the floor

42:40 Speaker 3: in the middle.

42:41 Speaker 1: My best guest, and this is the same specific craft

42:44 Speaker 1: that you were at, was because you were That was

42:46 Speaker 1: the only craft that you were in.

42:47 Speaker 3: The only one that I touched and worked on. And

42:51 Speaker 3: it it quietly lifted off the ground, which was incredibly

42:54 Speaker 3: impressive to.

42:55 Speaker 1: See quietly or silently what well.

43:00 Speaker 3: Quietly, because it did produced It produced a little corona

43:06 Speaker 3: discharge from the bottom. A corona discharge is kind of

43:09 Speaker 3: a high voltage brush, little bluish glow discharge. As it

43:13 Speaker 3: was lifting off the ground, you could hear a slight

43:15 Speaker 3: hiss sound. Now, as soon as it cleared the ground

43:17 Speaker 3: by about five or ten feet, maybe even less than that,

43:20 Speaker 3: the hissing stopped and the blue god disappeared. So it

43:25 Speaker 3: lifted off quietly and then it hovered.

43:27 Speaker 4: Silently, if you want to be specific.

43:29 Speaker 1: Wow, So then what kind of maneuvers was it doing?

43:33 Speaker 3: It took for that particular time, it took off, moved

43:37 Speaker 3: a little round around to the left and right and

43:39 Speaker 3: then sat back down the craft itself. They communicated with

43:47 Speaker 3: it with a reg because I saw the guy talking

43:52 Speaker 3: in a regular VHF radio to the person in the craft,

43:56 Speaker 3: and I even saw the frequency that was on the

44:00 Speaker 3: the frequency counter or the communication the transceiver there. But

44:05 Speaker 3: what's weird is he shouldn't be able to communicate with

44:09 Speaker 3: the craft with a radio. The radio the radio wave

44:14 Speaker 3: should bend around the craft. I mean, it shouldn't be possible.

44:17 Speaker 3: Every single thing about these the craft and the way

44:21 Speaker 3: they operated didn't make any sense to us. I mean

44:25 Speaker 3: that's something we talked about for a while after.

44:27 Speaker 1: Why should the frequency bend around the craft?

44:30 Speaker 3: Well, you really have to look at the way the

44:33 Speaker 3: gravity wave comes out of the craft. There's the reactors

44:36 Speaker 3: in the center, and there's a waveguide that goes up

44:39 Speaker 3: to the top. There's actually a small appendage that sticks

44:41 Speaker 3: out at the top of the craft and it produces

44:44 Speaker 3: a heart shaped gravitational distortion around the craft. Now, if

44:47 Speaker 3: the craft is sitting in the air and you walk

44:50 Speaker 3: underneath it and look up, you actually cannot see the craft.

44:56 Speaker 3: The light bends around it. You're bending. Gravity bends light,

45:00 Speaker 3: it bends radio waves. It shouldn't be possible to communicate

45:06 Speaker 3: with a craft that has an envelope around it that's

45:09 Speaker 3: distorting all forms of energy. But they were apparently in contact.

45:14 Speaker 1: With it somehow or another, through some unexplained way that

45:18 Speaker 1: they didn't bother explaining to you. So this thing gets up,

45:22 Speaker 1: it just does some very simple maneuvers left right, left, right,

45:24 Speaker 1: goes down. And did they discuss this with you? I

45:29 Speaker 1: mean they said they wanted you to see it.

45:30 Speaker 3: No, they just wanted No, they didn't discuss anything with me.

45:35 Speaker 3: It sat down. We looked around for a bit and

45:37 Speaker 3: Barry said, let's go back. We went back in the lab.

45:39 Speaker 3: All we got to do is see it. Fast forward

45:45 Speaker 3: two some months later, I did have the test flight

45:49 Speaker 3: schedule of the craft. Now they had times they had

45:52 Speaker 3: designated high performance tests. This obviously wasn't one that was

45:57 Speaker 3: a high performance test. The high performance goes above the

46:02 Speaker 3: mountain range and they do much more radical moves with

46:05 Speaker 3: the thing. Look, this is a prized item, and they're

46:09 Speaker 3: not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere

46:11 Speaker 3: or flying around to other countries or anything like that.

46:13 Speaker 3: They just play with this thing right over the test site.

46:17 Speaker 3: But they were doing some radical moves with it. And

46:20 Speaker 3: since I had the test flight schedule, statistically the amount

46:26 Speaker 3: of traffic and the surrounding areas on the highway was

46:30 Speaker 3: lowest on Wednesdays. And that's why Dennis told us that

46:34 Speaker 3: all the test flights occurred only on Wednesdays because it'd

46:38 Speaker 3: be the least chance that anyone would see what's going on.

46:41 Speaker 1: And this was before the government had expanded the forbidden

46:46 Speaker 1: territory around Area fifty one and Papoose Lake and all

46:50 Speaker 1: that stuff.

46:50 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think that occurred after my story came out.

46:55 Speaker 3: Then people started going up on the mountaintops and trying

46:58 Speaker 3: to look down into there, and they kind of freaked

47:01 Speaker 3: out and then did the land grab and pushed everybody back.

47:04 Speaker 3: But yeah, that I think all that occurred long after.

47:08 Speaker 3: I'm great that I came out.

47:10 Speaker 1: So you're working there, and while you're working there, you're

47:14 Speaker 1: under this crazy schedule. Forgive me for explaining your story,

47:18 Speaker 1: but you would get these phone calls, you would have

47:22 Speaker 1: to go to the to the airport at eleven PM,

47:27 Speaker 1: and your wife started thinking that you were having an affair.

47:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently, so now I did give my permission to

47:36 Speaker 3: have you know, as part of the you know, security

47:39 Speaker 3: clearance process. I gave written permission to have the phones

47:44 Speaker 3: monitored and things of that sort, so they weren't doing

47:46 Speaker 3: any covert stuff. They you know, with any Q clearance,

47:51 Speaker 3: which is civilian top secret clearance or military top secret clearance,

47:55 Speaker 3: they go talk to friends and you know, places you've been,

47:59 Speaker 3: make sure you're not connected to foreign countries. But you know,

48:02 Speaker 3: monitoring your phone is nothing unusual. However, they insisted that

48:09 Speaker 3: you know, you don't even talk to your loved one,

48:11 Speaker 3: to your partner, to your wife, whatever about what's going on.

48:14 Speaker 3: So she was essentially in the dark and didn't know

48:17 Speaker 3: the phone was being monitored. Well, part of the security

48:22 Speaker 3: clearance is that not only do you not have any

48:25 Speaker 3: connections to foreign countries and are in a maniac, but

48:28 Speaker 3: you have to have a stable home life too. Well,

48:31 Speaker 3: she started having an affair with a flight instructor. Now

48:35 Speaker 3: they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew

48:38 Speaker 3: it and I didn't, So they stopped me coming in.

48:42 Speaker 3: And their attitude at the time was, we need to

48:46 Speaker 3: see how this is going to play out and if

48:48 Speaker 3: Lazar is going to get a little weird or anything.

48:51 Speaker 3: So let's just you know, hold them off from coming

48:54 Speaker 3: in and you know, see what happens.

48:58 Speaker 1: And they explain this to you what was happening.

49:00 Speaker 3: Well after the fact. Yeah, because time kind of went

49:03 Speaker 3: on and there were guys that were following me around,

49:08 Speaker 3: and I started getting a little concerned, going, well, chit

49:11 Speaker 3: are they booting me out of the project, And if so,

49:16 Speaker 3: they're not just going to let me hang out at

49:18 Speaker 3: home and go get a new job.

49:19 Speaker 4: Knowing what I know.

49:21 Speaker 3: So as time went on, I started getting a little concerned,

49:25 Speaker 3: and I took my closest friends and just kind of

49:28 Speaker 3: got together and I said, hey, remember that job I

49:31 Speaker 3: told you about. This is what's going on, and like,

49:36 Speaker 3: you don't need to take my word for it. Wednesday night,

49:40 Speaker 3: we need to all go out here. I want to

49:41 Speaker 3: show you what's going on. So I took everybody and

49:44 Speaker 3: we went out to remember since I had the test

49:47 Speaker 3: flight schedule, and went outside the base out into the desert,

49:53 Speaker 3: and so everybody could see, you know, one of the

49:55 Speaker 3: high performance tests, and you know, it left quite an

49:58 Speaker 3: imprint on everybody, so they knew I wasn't and.

50:01 Speaker 1: There's videos of these tests, right.

50:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, but remember this is in the it's in in

50:06 Speaker 3: the dark in the eighties of the big monster sized

50:08 Speaker 3: camcorder and you've got, you know, a bright light jumping around.

50:11 Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean we did video of it, but

50:14 Speaker 3: there's no by today's standards.

50:16 Speaker 1: It's but is your video specifically available, the video that you.

50:20 Speaker 3: Took, Yeah, well, George Knapp has it is?

50:24 Speaker 4: I have no idea.

50:25 Speaker 2: Jeremy, Yeah, I show clips of it in my film.

50:27 Speaker 2: It's it's online and someone did a deep analysis of it.

50:30 Speaker 2: It was interesting to take a look at how.

50:33 Speaker 1: Well this microphone on two face from your face.

50:37 Speaker 2: You know, to see how his video looks now. But

50:40 Speaker 2: as far as video evidence, I mean, we are talking

50:42 Speaker 2: eighties campos, and the most important thing is the human

50:45 Speaker 2: story here. Everybody that he took up there on three

50:48 Speaker 2: separate occasions, they don't all like each other, they don't

50:51 Speaker 2: all talk. They all agree on one thing. They saw

50:54 Speaker 2: something that night at the exact point in time and

50:56 Speaker 2: space that Bob Azar said, And remember this is seventeen fifteen.

51:00 Speaker 2: To him, I was south of area fifty one. No

51:02 Speaker 2: one even knew really about area fifty one. We're talking

51:04 Speaker 2: Pappoos Lake. And they all agree they saw something that

51:07 Speaker 2: night they had never seen before. And they've never seen

51:10 Speaker 2: since right when he said it. So that's one of

51:12 Speaker 2: like the six things where I'm like, how did he know?

51:15 Speaker 2: You can dismiss him. I tried to dismiss it, but

51:18 Speaker 2: some things we can't get around, and there's about five

51:20 Speaker 2: or six of them. How did he know about this?

51:22 Speaker 1: If Jamie wants to find that video right now, what

51:24 Speaker 1: would he look under?

51:25 Speaker 2: Bob Bazaar UFO S four Area fifty one just kind

51:31 Speaker 2: of like that. So it's like the S for UFO

51:34 Speaker 2: video Bob Blazaar and a guy does an analysis, but

51:37 Speaker 2: you're analyzing these eighties videos from the very beginning. Bob

51:42 Speaker 2: never said I have proof of my story and I'm

51:45 Speaker 2: gonna tell the world. He said at the very beginning,

51:48 Speaker 2: I cannot prove my story. That's not why I'm telling this.

51:51 Speaker 2: George Knapp convinced him to tell people, and he lived

51:55 Speaker 2: through it, and I didn't believe it either until I

51:57 Speaker 2: talked with George.

51:59 Speaker 1: Okay, so you film these this test flight, one test fight,

52:05 Speaker 1: and then you get caught.

52:06 Speaker 3: Actually it was I think the third time because we

52:11 Speaker 3: went out there the first time. Everybody saw it. Everybody

52:15 Speaker 3: was amazed because it did some radical maneuvers and you know,

52:19 Speaker 3: everybody had a.

52:20 Speaker 1: Lot maneuvers that I've seen. I've seen the video. It

52:22 Speaker 1: doesn't I don't think there's something we have now that

52:25 Speaker 1: does that. No, in terms of like a human piloted craft,

52:29 Speaker 1: and I don't know obviously with the government.

52:31 Speaker 3: No, it's it's impossible. Nothing can move like that. And

52:34 Speaker 3: remember we didn't start filming from the very beginning, you know,

52:39 Speaker 3: we were waiting for something, you know, to happen. The

52:41 Speaker 3: craft took off and it came flying at us, stopped,

52:44 Speaker 3: you know, turned at a riangle, flew back, and then

52:46 Speaker 3: you know after it did some you know, amazing stuff

52:49 Speaker 3: to get the camera, and then we started filming. So

52:52 Speaker 3: it doesn't have all of it on there, it just

52:54 Speaker 3: has some the.

52:55 Speaker 1: Way I describe it to my friends, and they said,

52:56 Speaker 1: what is like, I said, take a laser pointer and

52:59 Speaker 1: then have a wall, and then move it around the

53:01 Speaker 1: wall like you know, how it moves around the wall.

53:03 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with

53:05 Speaker 1: inertia or physics or it's not impeded in any way

53:08 Speaker 1: by the atmosphere. Yeah, that's what it looked like.

53:11 Speaker 3: You're essentially separated from reality. As crazy as that sounds

53:15 Speaker 3: with being in case it's own gravitational envelope, inertia is

53:21 Speaker 3: not going to affect it.

53:22 Speaker 4: And you know this is.

53:25 Speaker 3: This is how some of those recent sightings are. Commander

53:27 Speaker 3: David Fraverer, I'm sure you've heard of the tikback UFO.

53:31 Speaker 3: I mean, he describes exactly that the thing operates exactly

53:35 Speaker 3: the way I was describing. That's why he was interested

53:38 Speaker 3: to talk to me. But we saw this, and you know,

53:44 Speaker 3: on the way home, it's like, hey, we got away

53:46 Speaker 3: with it. We should try it again the next test

53:48 Speaker 3: flight date. So this became a thing to do. And

53:51 Speaker 3: I think it was on the third time that we

53:55 Speaker 3: got caught. I mean we started becoming a little careless.

53:58 Speaker 3: I think we took a motor home them out there,

54:01 Speaker 3: you know, I mean it was like the stupidest thing

54:03 Speaker 3: you could tailgating. Yeah, it was ridiculous.

54:07 Speaker 1: And again you're in your twenties.

54:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know what was funny was.

54:13 Speaker 3: We went out there and my friend Geene Huff and

54:16 Speaker 3: I were leaning on the front of a vehicle and

54:21 Speaker 3: just for some reason we just started talking hit like, well,

54:26 Speaker 3: I hope they realized that I don't remember what we're saying,

54:30 Speaker 3: but you know that something about attacking the base or

54:35 Speaker 3: something along those lines and stealing the craft or something

54:38 Speaker 3: like that. And then about twenty feet in front of us,

54:43 Speaker 3: we see a little green light fall on the ground

54:46 Speaker 3: and roll to us, and unbeknownst to us, now it's

54:49 Speaker 3: pitch black. You can't see your hand in front of

54:51 Speaker 3: your face. There were a bunch of guards standing right

54:54 Speaker 3: out there and they had a night vision scope where

54:56 Speaker 3: they were like from here to the wall, looking at us,

54:59 Speaker 3: listening to us, and the guy dropped it and the

55:01 Speaker 3: scope rolled over to us and you could see the

55:02 Speaker 3: green screen.

55:04 Speaker 1: You know.

55:04 Speaker 3: We turned the lights on and all these guys are there,

55:07 Speaker 3: so it was uh, whoa, yeah. Yeah, So we did

55:11 Speaker 3: incredibly stupid stuff and got caught, as we should have, because.

55:13 Speaker 1: So when they catch you and they bring you in,

55:15 Speaker 1: then what happens.

55:16 Speaker 3: Well I went in for debriefing the following day. I

55:20 Speaker 3: went to Indian Spring's Air Force Base, which is kind

55:23 Speaker 3: of a defunct base that they used to use at

55:26 Speaker 3: the nuclear test site. And this is when they brought

55:30 Speaker 3: out the transcript of the phone call with my wife,

55:36 Speaker 3: and you know, they sat me down and we said,

55:39 Speaker 3: you know, when we meant to keep the secret. We

55:41 Speaker 3: meant you can't tell your friends, right, you know, and

55:44 Speaker 3: it just being sarcastic and China, and then they got

55:48 Speaker 3: real serious. But this is where they you know, took

55:53 Speaker 3: the transcript out and were reading me what my wife

55:58 Speaker 3: and you know, our friend and we're talking about.

56:01 Speaker 4: And it was a hard time.

56:04 Speaker 1: So what happens from there? What do they do with you?

56:09 Speaker 1: Why don't they arrest you?

56:10 Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know why. I'm not sure

56:13 Speaker 3: they exactly they knew what to do, but they did

56:17 Speaker 3: let me go that night and I went home and

56:21 Speaker 3: that this is kind of when the most stressful part started.

56:24 Speaker 1: Because you're realizing that you're being monitored.

56:26 Speaker 3: Yeah now, so yeah, now I know. Not only am

56:28 Speaker 3: I being monitored, but now I know I'm in trouble.

56:31 Speaker 3: And it wasn't a short time after that that I

56:34 Speaker 3: contacted you know, at that time, the only investigative reporter

56:38 Speaker 3: I had heard of in Las Vegas was George Knapp,

56:41 Speaker 3: and you know, told him some of the story because

56:44 Speaker 3: I had no idea what the hell was going to

56:46 Speaker 3: happen at that point.

56:47 Speaker 1: So George Knapp tries to dissect your story, tries to

56:52 Speaker 1: find holes in it, tells it, puts it online, and

56:56 Speaker 1: makes everybody aware of it. And that's how I found

56:57 Speaker 1: out about it.

56:58 Speaker 4: Yeah. To make a long story.

57:00 Speaker 1: Short, what happens, Yeah, to really make a long story short,

57:03 Speaker 1: what happens from there on? I mean, do they contact

57:06 Speaker 1: you and say, hey, Bob, it's probably a good idea.

57:08 Speaker 1: If you shut up, let me try to label you

57:14 Speaker 1: as crazy? Was there.

57:17 Speaker 4: There?

57:18 Speaker 3: Boy, there were a lot of things that happened. You

57:21 Speaker 3: know between that point, I'm leaving out a lot of stuff.

57:26 Speaker 3: To fill in the story. We'd have to go back

57:29 Speaker 3: to Los Alamos and and well, I really don't want

57:34 Speaker 3: to talk about that, the.

57:37 Speaker 1: Top secret weapons stuff that you were working on.

57:41 Speaker 3: No, I'm talking about the one fifteen. Well, I don't know.

57:47 Speaker 3: I have to think about how I.

57:49 Speaker 1: What is the problem.

57:53 Speaker 3: I don't want to get myself into more trouble by

57:55 Speaker 3: admitting something, so I just have to dance around a

57:59 Speaker 3: couple He.

58:00 Speaker 2: Was greted just during the filming at the.

58:02 Speaker 1: Movie people thought the movie's great, by the way, thanks Joe,

58:04 Speaker 1: And it's on Netflix right now if anybody wants to

58:07 Speaker 1: check it out. And if you're one of those people

58:09 Speaker 1: like me who you know, I've always loved the idea

58:13 Speaker 1: of UFOs. I became extremely weary talking to people who

58:17 Speaker 1: are UFO believers and UFO fanatics because there's so many

58:20 Speaker 1: of them that are full of shit, and not just

58:22 Speaker 1: full of shit, they're they're childishly delirious, like the way

58:27 Speaker 1: they talk about things that I mean, there's so many

58:29 Speaker 1: people that are that I'm in contact. They reach me

58:33 Speaker 1: in the night and they explain to me what we're

58:35 Speaker 1: doing to the ocean is wrong, and like You're like.

58:38 Speaker 3: Okay, this is one of the reasons I didn't want

58:40 Speaker 3: to do the show. Sure, well no, it's no yeah,

58:44 Speaker 3: well it's I mean, it's no joke. We've had people

58:47 Speaker 3: literally camp out on our front lawn, and you know,

58:52 Speaker 3: in some ways I can relate to some of these people.

58:54 Speaker 3: You know, maybe some of them did really have some

58:56 Speaker 3: kind of experience or saw something and all their friends

58:59 Speaker 3: think they're crazy. But hey, now there's this guy I

59:01 Speaker 3: heard on the radio, and at least he knows I'm

59:05 Speaker 3: not full of shit, so I gotta talk to him.

59:08 Speaker 3: And so most of the correspondence I get are people

59:11 Speaker 3: trying to get a hold of me, going, Bob, you

59:13 Speaker 3: got to listen to me, I'm coming to talk to you,

59:16 Speaker 3: you know, I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever. But some

59:20 Speaker 3: of them are just fucking batshit crazy and they're they're frightening.

59:24 Speaker 1: There's a lot of schizophrenics that are involved in the

59:27 Speaker 1: conspiracy world. There's a lot of people that have real issues.

59:30 Speaker 2: Joe. It would be a disservice to your audience to

59:33 Speaker 2: not say that we have to look at what's going

59:37 Speaker 2: on now and understand. I've heard on your show a

59:39 Speaker 2: bunch of stuff about what's going on now, and to

59:42 Speaker 2: not really understand what's going on now. You can't see

59:46 Speaker 2: Bob's story in the correct light after thirty years, and

59:49 Speaker 2: at some point we should just touch upon that. The

59:53 Speaker 2: biggest being that things like the Tic tac Ufo case

59:57 Speaker 2: that came out. I've heard people even on the show say,

1:00:00 Speaker 2: or there's a glitch in the radar, that's a data

1:00:02 Speaker 2: poor perspective. You just don't know yet what's really going on.

1:00:06 Speaker 2: Command of Fravor, I was able to get the interview

1:00:08 Speaker 2: with him, to talk with him way before it became public.

1:00:11 Speaker 2: I got that from him. He saw it, other pilots

1:00:15 Speaker 2: saw it. This is a big thing that's going on

1:00:17 Speaker 2: right now they had more settings on the East coast recently,

1:00:21 Speaker 2: cubes with spherical ores. These are not aerodynamic, and these

1:00:25 Speaker 2: are the people we trust to defend us on nine

1:00:26 Speaker 2: to eleven. Commander Favor protected Los Angeles on nine to eleven,

1:00:30 Speaker 2: So we trust them, but they're not trained observers. Radar

1:00:34 Speaker 2: individuals see these things. And the big one just to

1:00:37 Speaker 2: throw it down, so we can consider a story a

1:00:38 Speaker 2: little differently, there's more depth to it. The big one

1:00:41 Speaker 2: is the United States government has admitted that they have

1:00:44 Speaker 2: been continuously studying the UFO phenomenon. That program was called

1:00:49 Speaker 2: a TIP Advanced ERAS or sorry, was called AWSAP. That

1:00:54 Speaker 2: that's the mother program. George Knapp got that out. They

1:00:57 Speaker 2: announced it the New York Times about a TIP but

1:01:00 Speaker 2: AWSAP these acronyms AWSAP Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Applications Program.

1:01:05 Speaker 2: Who cares? That was the mother program. So they've admitted

1:01:08 Speaker 2: we didn't stop studying UFOs in nineteen sixty nine with

1:01:10 Speaker 2: Project Bluebook. We don't think it's crazy. We actually want

1:01:13 Speaker 2: to reverse engineer the technology. That's why on your other

1:01:16 Speaker 2: show he said, what's this aav thing? It's like they're

1:01:18 Speaker 2: making up another UFO name. Well, hold on, there's a

1:01:20 Speaker 2: reason because in the documents, the DIA documents that George

1:01:24 Speaker 2: n App released that everybody said was faked till now

1:01:27 Speaker 2: they know is real, they call them AAV's, which is

1:01:31 Speaker 2: advanced aerospace vehicles. People are getting the acronyms wrong. So

1:01:35 Speaker 2: the reason for the terminology change is so that we

1:01:38 Speaker 2: can mimic what we're reading in the DIA documents. People

1:01:41 Speaker 2: can look for that now. So they changed the names

1:01:44 Speaker 2: to get people away from UFO or UAP even like

1:01:46 Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton said on air, right.

1:01:49 Speaker 1: So what are you talking about? Hillary?

1:01:51 Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel, Oh, Jimmy,

1:01:56 Speaker 2: we don't call them UFOs anymore. We call them uaaps

1:01:59 Speaker 2: on a identified aerial phenomenon. Right, So she kind of

1:02:03 Speaker 2: was giving the Clintons are very into the UFO topic,

1:02:06 Speaker 2: Senator Reid. You know, he's done a lot for the subject,

1:02:09 Speaker 2: the study of it.

1:02:10 Speaker 1: Right.

1:02:11 Speaker 2: So she informed the public so they could look for

1:02:13 Speaker 2: the right term. So these terms are important because the

1:02:16 Speaker 2: DA in those documents, they've been calling them AAV's for

1:02:20 Speaker 2: quite some time now.

1:02:21 Speaker 1: And they changed the name to anomalous.

1:02:24 Speaker 2: No, that's kind of a misnom So they always mess

1:02:29 Speaker 2: around with things, but it's actually advanced.

1:02:31 Speaker 1: Right. They're describing it in the news. They were calling

1:02:34 Speaker 1: it anomalous totally bace.

1:02:35 Speaker 2: Vehicle totally and that's cool. They were also saying anomalous

1:02:38 Speaker 2: aerospace threats aat right, because they want the sense of

1:02:42 Speaker 2: a threat. So my point is, all of if people

1:02:45 Speaker 2: don't know this now and they think this stuff is fantasy,

1:02:48 Speaker 2: this part of it, that we're studying it, that we

1:02:50 Speaker 2: take it seriously, we're spending money on it, and that

1:02:53 Speaker 2: we're getting great data from visual pilots to radar. That's

1:02:57 Speaker 2: why we know it's aerospace. They dropped from eighty thousand feet,

1:03:00 Speaker 2: but guess what, that's the top scope of the spy

1:03:02 Speaker 2: one radar is eighty thousand feet, so the radar system

1:03:05 Speaker 2: they were using it was coming from above that. So

1:03:08 Speaker 2: my point is this, if you don't understand that this

1:03:12 Speaker 2: is happening, you're just behind the curve because you don't

1:03:15 Speaker 2: have the information because of the stigma that you're talking about.

1:03:19 Speaker 2: I saw you get totally upset with the UFO topic.

1:03:21 Speaker 2: I met you first. When you get totally upset with

1:03:23 Speaker 2: the UFO topic, it's the people.

1:03:25 Speaker 5: When when you're doing your I'm sorry, man, when you're

1:03:29 Speaker 5: doing your show, you know the jor Dan questions everything

1:03:33 Speaker 5: I could see, how how frustrating is trust me, I

1:03:36 Speaker 5: have been frustrated to how luckily my mentor is George

1:03:39 Speaker 5: Knapp and he's taught me the pitfalls as I went

1:03:42 Speaker 5: through it.

1:03:43 Speaker 2: My whole point in this rant right here is just

1:03:46 Speaker 2: that we have to now look at Bob's story, but

1:03:49 Speaker 2: knowing the facts, not someone saying it's a bird, it's

1:03:52 Speaker 2: a plane, it's a glitch. They're not. And so if

1:03:55 Speaker 2: you don't know that, you just don't have the information yet.

1:03:58 Speaker 1: Not just that knowing the facts as we know him

1:03:59 Speaker 1: toowenty nineteen, not in nineteen eighty eight.

1:04:02 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and so what is he said that has come true?

1:04:06 Speaker 2: He's totally unimpressed with it?

1:04:08 Speaker 1: Right?

1:04:08 Speaker 2: What has he said this come true? So I was like, Bob,

1:04:11 Speaker 2: they've announced gravity as a wave. You were right, man,

1:04:14 Speaker 2: you're vindicated. And he looks at me and he's like, well,

1:04:17 Speaker 2: if you think about it, Jeremy, I had like a

1:04:18 Speaker 2: fifty to fifty chance. He was not very impressed.

1:04:22 Speaker 1: Right when did they announce gravity as a wave?

1:04:25 Speaker 2: So they detected in a sense, they detected gravity waves.

1:04:28 Speaker 1: Now, who is they?

1:04:30 Speaker 2: You might know more. There's two black holes that were colliding,

1:04:33 Speaker 2: and that's how they were able to detect.

1:04:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, somebody Bill. I don't know which group it was

1:04:37 Speaker 3: or what part.

1:04:37 Speaker 4: Of the government.

1:04:38 Speaker 2: That's what Google's for.

1:04:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, but they, you know, built a gigantic gravity wave

1:04:44 Speaker 3: detector and pretty much detected that.

1:04:48 Speaker 2: There are such things as first observation of gravitational waves.

1:04:53 Speaker 1: It says it was in twenty sixteen. Okay, the first

1:04:57 Speaker 1: observation of gravitational waves was made on fourteen September twenty fifteen,

1:05:01 Speaker 1: as announced by the l Igo and Virgo collaborators on

1:05:05 Speaker 1: the eleventh of February twenty sixteen. Previously, gravitational waves had

1:05:10 Speaker 1: only been inferred indirectly via their effect on the timing

1:05:14 Speaker 1: of pulsars and binary star systems. Don dun dum. The

1:05:18 Speaker 1: waveform connected by both Ligo Lgo observatories matched to predictions

1:05:25 Speaker 1: of general relativity for Gravit for a gravitational wave emanating

1:05:33 Speaker 1: from the inwards. I'm trying to get this from the

1:05:36 Speaker 1: inward spiral and merger of a pair of black holes

1:05:39 Speaker 1: around thirty six and twenty nine solar masses and the

1:05:42 Speaker 1: subsequent ring down of the single resulting black hole.

1:05:47 Speaker 3: Well that I mean, yes, no, he was. In the eighties,

1:05:51 Speaker 3: the predominant theory was gravity is produced by gravitons, you know,

1:05:55 Speaker 3: part of theoretical part theoretical particles, but they're not they're waves,

1:06:00 Speaker 3: they're not particles.

1:06:01 Speaker 1: And so the thought is that the way we experience gravity,

1:06:05 Speaker 1: it's based on mass, which is why the Moon, which

1:06:09 Speaker 1: is roughly one quarter the size of the Earth, has

1:06:12 Speaker 1: one six of the Earth's gravity. So there's some sort

1:06:14 Speaker 1: of a computation you can make based on mass.

1:06:16 Speaker 3: Right, And remember, we can observe the effects of gravity,

1:06:21 Speaker 3: but we have no idea what it is. All we

1:06:25 Speaker 3: can do is observe it, and we can't make it.

1:06:27 Speaker 3: The only way you can make gravity is just put

1:06:29 Speaker 3: more mass together, and it's just a product of gravity.

1:06:32 Speaker 3: But if you can make if you have a machine

1:06:35 Speaker 3: that makes gravity, you can pretty much do anything. You

1:06:39 Speaker 3: can affect time, you can have force fields, all that

1:06:42 Speaker 3: stuff that's in science fiction becomes reality if you have

1:06:46 Speaker 3: a machine that can make gravity. And what we worked

1:06:49 Speaker 3: on in the desert was a machine that makes gravity.

1:06:53 Speaker 1: I love your analogy of dropping off a small nuclear

1:06:56 Speaker 1: reactor to the Victorian era. I love that that a

1:06:59 Speaker 1: noun because back then that was impossible, that was magic.

1:07:05 Speaker 1: What you're talking about here, the fact that they just

1:07:08 Speaker 1: discovered this four years ago, that this is a wave.

1:07:11 Speaker 1: We're as much as we know and as impressed as

1:07:14 Speaker 1: we are as we should be with how much more

1:07:18 Speaker 1: technologically advanced we are than every other creature on this planet.

1:07:21 Speaker 1: We're still in many ways in the adolescence of technological innovation.

1:07:25 Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely if even adolescence.

1:07:29 Speaker 1: And when you're talking about this binary star system and

1:07:33 Speaker 1: Zeta Reticuli and who knows how much longer these things

1:07:37 Speaker 1: have been around than us, Who knows what their evolutionary

1:07:40 Speaker 1: cycle has been. Who knows what I mean? We might

1:07:43 Speaker 1: be talking about something that's a million years more advanced

1:07:45 Speaker 1: than us.

1:07:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it could easily be. Well, I'm not in

1:07:50 Speaker 3: believe it or not. I'm not into UFOs. I don't

1:07:53 Speaker 3: follow the stories or you know, even after your experiences. No,

1:07:57 Speaker 3: I'm fascinated with the technology and it really it irks me,

1:08:01 Speaker 3: like every night I go to sleep that you know,

1:08:03 Speaker 3: I don't that it was my own doing essentially that

1:08:09 Speaker 3: that prevented me from continuing on in the in the project.

1:08:12 Speaker 3: I mean, it's that to be on that cutting edge

1:08:15 Speaker 3: of technology is so alluring to me. But you know,

1:08:21 Speaker 3: by the same token, I don't really care that there's

1:08:23 Speaker 3: aliens or where they come from. I mean, the prize

1:08:26 Speaker 3: is the technology, and that's what I'm fascinated by. But

1:08:29 Speaker 3: so I don't listen to UFO stories and that sort

1:08:31 Speaker 3: of thing. But George Knapp is I mean, he's the

1:08:34 Speaker 3: guy that has the contacts and tries to thread everything together.

1:08:38 Speaker 3: And what he recently told me is he found I

1:08:42 Speaker 3: don't know it's either documentation or people that he spoke to.

1:08:45 Speaker 3: It's at the existence of this project, the project that

1:08:48 Speaker 3: I was on. It's something that they seem to take

1:08:53 Speaker 3: out every eight or ten years.

1:08:55 Speaker 2: So that's a very specific memo, and this is actually

1:08:58 Speaker 2: this is the first time I'll be very clear with

1:09:00 Speaker 2: people about it. It's a big topic of conversation right now.

1:09:03 Speaker 2: It's called the Wilson memo. You can look it up.

1:09:06 Speaker 2: Admiral Wilson met with a scientist who's actually was featured

1:09:10 Speaker 2: in one of my films. Everybody has been debating whether

1:09:13 Speaker 2: or not this document of a conversation with an sitting

1:09:18 Speaker 2: admiral at the time is a real document. It's an

1:09:21 Speaker 2: actual conversation that happened. And this document is where everybody

1:09:24 Speaker 2: wants to know. The world is going crazy right now

1:09:26 Speaker 2: in the UFO world. I'll tell you straight up, right now,

1:09:29 Speaker 2: I'm in the position to know. And it is a

1:09:32 Speaker 2: real document that it is real. So the conversation you

1:09:36 Speaker 2: read in that, that conversation was had. I can't attest

1:09:39 Speaker 2: to everything.

1:09:40 Speaker 1: You're not being very clear.

1:09:41 Speaker 2: Sure, please, no problem. So there was a document this

1:09:45 Speaker 2: is circulating right now that is really big. It's going

1:09:48 Speaker 2: around everywhere. People are asking what is this document? It's

1:09:51 Speaker 2: called the Wilson memos. What how you can find it

1:09:53 Speaker 2: online or the Wilson leak.

1:09:56 Speaker 1: There it is. Jimmy's got it, the Wilson memorandum use

1:09:59 Speaker 1: of human No no, no, no, no, that's not it. Yeah.

1:10:03 Speaker 2: So Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist and they have

1:10:08 Speaker 2: this discussion oddly enough at special projects at EG and G.

1:10:11 Speaker 2: And if I remember, the document is from two thousand

1:10:13 Speaker 2: and one, I'm telling everybody right now, it's real. And

1:10:16 Speaker 2: we'll see. My history is pretty good with like saying

1:10:18 Speaker 2: if something's real or not right. So here we go.

1:10:21 Speaker 2: The document comes out. They meet at EG and G

1:10:23 Speaker 2: Special Projects in nineteen eighty nine, they stumble into a problem.

1:10:28 Speaker 2: This happens, they put the technology away, and then they

1:10:32 Speaker 2: bring it back out and see if material science has

1:10:35 Speaker 2: caught up and if they can make any progress. So

1:10:37 Speaker 2: this document kind of talks about this process. The big

1:10:40 Speaker 2: thing I get from it and a lot of it's

1:10:42 Speaker 2: vindicating to Bob. And one of the things that's vindicating

1:10:45 Speaker 2: besides the EG and G thing is that private industry.

1:10:49 Speaker 2: So this guy's an admiral and he says, I found

1:10:52 Speaker 2: out about your SAP, your special access program. I need

1:10:55 Speaker 2: to know about it. And he's going to a private

1:10:59 Speaker 2: part of industry and he has denied access and he says,

1:11:03 Speaker 2: you know, I should be running this program, and they

1:11:06 Speaker 2: were able to deny him access. So I think the

1:11:09 Speaker 2: takeaway here is check it out. I'm telling you that

1:11:12 Speaker 2: that is an actual correct That is a leak. Now

1:11:15 Speaker 2: everything's said in that document. I don't know what are

1:11:17 Speaker 2: you talking about. What is said in that document specific

1:11:20 Speaker 2: it's between a scientist and an admiral that are sitting

1:11:23 Speaker 2: and they're having a meeting and they're talking about the

1:11:27 Speaker 2: search for the UFO subject the search to get special

1:11:30 Speaker 2: access program access to all of these different things like

1:11:35 Speaker 2: reverse engineering programs. So in this document they talk about it.

1:11:40 Speaker 2: I believe that this document that the person that went

1:11:43 Speaker 2: was employed by Robert Bigelow. You know, one of the

1:11:45 Speaker 2: guys has a couple of orbiting satellites and all that stuff.

1:11:48 Speaker 1: Who's the guy owned Skinwalker Ranch?

1:11:50 Speaker 2: No, he's not. He was the guy the owned Skinwalker Okay, yeah,

1:11:54 Speaker 2: he used to own it. There's a new owner and

1:11:56 Speaker 2: I interview him for my other film. But there's a

1:11:59 Speaker 2: new owner and you'll be hearing a lot more about

1:12:01 Speaker 2: that soon. But like it'll just there's there's stuff that

1:12:05 Speaker 2: you'll be hearing about Skinwalker around soon because there's a

1:12:07 Speaker 2: new owner. Anyway, the whole point of this, you know

1:12:10 Speaker 2: insertion here, is just that that document kind of validates

1:12:15 Speaker 2: a lot of this idea. Bob just said that they

1:12:17 Speaker 2: make a little progress, then they can't go anywhere. They

1:12:20 Speaker 2: tuck it away, and then they bring it back out,

1:12:23 Speaker 2: you know, ten years later and start working on it.

1:12:26 Speaker 2: What is the limiting factor? I think Bob should speak

1:12:28 Speaker 2: on this, But it's the material science.

1:12:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's early where physics is, so I can I

1:12:33 Speaker 3: can see them doing that. I mean, I didn't have

1:12:36 Speaker 3: any information on that, but I think what you know

1:12:40 Speaker 3: George uncovered is probably accurate. That you know, we try

1:12:44 Speaker 3: and do what we can and once we reach a

1:12:46 Speaker 3: roadblock on we really can't figure it out. It's just

1:12:50 Speaker 3: freaking wait, put the thing away, wait for science to

1:12:53 Speaker 3: catch up, and you know, a decade later, let's take

1:12:55 Speaker 3: the project out again and see all right, now where

1:12:58 Speaker 3: can we go.

1:12:59 Speaker 1: But there's got to be someone who remains informed, right,

1:13:02 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, You've got your scientists like you and Barry,

1:13:05 Speaker 1: you got your people that you compartmentalize, you got these

1:13:07 Speaker 1: people work on it.

1:13:08 Speaker 3: There has to be some people, right that know everything.

1:13:11 Speaker 1: You've got security, and then someone's going to be in

1:13:14 Speaker 1: the outside saying, hey, we need people to guard this building.

1:13:17 Speaker 1: Don't let anybody in for ten years.

1:13:19 Speaker 3: I think a lot of that is private industry, and

1:13:22 Speaker 3: I think that's how they keep it. Yeah, I think

1:13:23 Speaker 3: that's how they literate because the government is just so leaky.

1:13:27 Speaker 3: I think that's kind of what they're doing.

1:13:29 Speaker 2: That's what the document kind of proves. You just articulated

1:13:32 Speaker 2: that that it isn't control of private industry.

1:13:34 Speaker 1: What private industry Some aerospace company something I don't know.

1:13:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, they wouldn't. They would The guy with the admiral

1:13:40 Speaker 2: wouldn't name it in the car right in the conversation.

1:13:43 Speaker 1: So they still have these things, supposedly.

1:13:49 Speaker 3: I would guess. I mean, I don't have any information

1:13:51 Speaker 3: on Have you.

1:13:51 Speaker 1: Ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea

1:13:57 Speaker 1: of where they got them or how they got them?

1:14:00 Speaker 3: Now? But something must have been said to me from Barry,

1:14:07 Speaker 3: but it was just too long ago and I can't

1:14:09 Speaker 3: quite remember what.

1:14:10 Speaker 4: Was said, but it.

1:14:12 Speaker 3: It just left a seat in my mind. I think

1:14:14 Speaker 3: at least one of them was part of an archaeological dig,

1:14:18 Speaker 3: so it's old something. At least one of them is old.

1:14:23 Speaker 3: I don't know if it was the one I worked on,

1:14:24 Speaker 3: but I remember something to do with.

1:14:26 Speaker 4: An archaeological dig. Whoa, So that's uh.

1:14:30 Speaker 3: That means it's not just old, it's ancient.

1:14:32 Speaker 1: It'll be a great Steven Spielberg movie.

1:14:34 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, as all of it would.

1:14:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, that trimmed me out when he said that for

1:14:39 Speaker 2: the first time.

1:14:40 Speaker 1: No, that's a freak out right. There a couple of

1:14:43 Speaker 1: dudes with some brushes looking for a tyrannosaurs wreck bone,

1:14:46 Speaker 1: and it metal.

1:14:47 Speaker 2: And when did they find it? You know that they

1:14:49 Speaker 2: have nine of them?

1:14:50 Speaker 3: Well, and how could we have not heard about that?

1:14:53 Speaker 3: What about the guys with the brushes? How could you

1:14:56 Speaker 3: uncover something like that?

1:14:57 Speaker 2: And Joe's newspaper at home? Does I mean? And they

1:15:00 Speaker 2: said it on that first day?

1:15:01 Speaker 1: Oswell ye yeah, yeah when you told me yea, yeah,

1:15:03 Speaker 1: I have a cover. What is this here? James? Is

1:15:06 Speaker 1: the document? But it had to do some digging to

1:15:08 Speaker 1: find it.

1:15:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just kind of yeah. So this is where

1:15:11 Speaker 2: they meet it E G and G and this is

1:15:12 Speaker 2: Admiral Wilson. And there's a lot more coming out now.

1:15:14 Speaker 2: I want to be clear, George didn't put this out.

1:15:17 Speaker 2: He didn't leak this out to anybity. This is I

1:15:20 Speaker 2: can tell you how.

1:15:21 Speaker 1: I recorded this conversation.

1:15:23 Speaker 2: So this was an employee of at the time Robert Bigelow.

1:15:26 Speaker 1: And this is in two thousand and two.

1:15:27 Speaker 2: Right, do you remember when he had that government contract

1:15:29 Speaker 2: called AWSAP the world all knows about now, and he

1:15:32 Speaker 2: had knids that studied the ranch that twenty two million.

1:15:34 Speaker 2: Everybody is saying it was for a tip Advanced Aerospace

1:15:38 Speaker 2: Threat Identification program. The twenty two million dollars was for

1:15:42 Speaker 2: AWSAP that was pushed through through Congress. Three congressmen, right,

1:15:46 Speaker 2: an astronaut, it was pushed through and that's what that

1:15:50 Speaker 2: twenty two million dollars. By the way, they spend more

1:15:52 Speaker 2: money on viagra every year than they do study in UFOs.

1:15:55 Speaker 2: If it was just this program, which I think is funny.

1:15:57 Speaker 1: Probably more money from they probably do well.

1:16:00 Speaker 2: You never know how it seeds into population. But anyway,

1:16:03 Speaker 2: this program, this is what was the mother program, so

1:16:07 Speaker 2: it got the twenty two million, and really it was

1:16:09 Speaker 2: to study Skinwalker Ranch. Oddly enough, that twenty two million

1:16:13 Speaker 2: all was inspired by the phenomenon they were seen at

1:16:15 Speaker 2: Skinwalker Ranch because the scientists they're seeing vehicles come through

1:16:20 Speaker 2: like a space in the sky.

1:16:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, we went there. I went through the docu. Yeah,

1:16:25 Speaker 1: we interviewed a bunch of people that seemed full of shit,

1:16:28 Speaker 1: but a couple that didn't. This is very very interesting.

1:16:31 Speaker 2: Totally, and there's but if you look, I spent a

1:16:33 Speaker 2: lot of time in the area. I'm not talking about

1:16:35 Speaker 2: those stories. I'm saying there were scientists hired by the

1:16:38 Speaker 2: government right through Big Low to study the ranch because

1:16:41 Speaker 2: they thought it was important and you know, whatever, whatever.

1:16:44 Speaker 2: The point is that twenty two million was to study that.

1:16:46 Speaker 2: Then we have a tip which is like an auxiliary

1:16:49 Speaker 2: kind of program of military settings like commander fravers and

1:16:52 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. This document is just one of

1:16:55 Speaker 2: those things that has now come forward that through the

1:16:58 Speaker 2: big Low studies it was got funded, and then it

1:17:01 Speaker 2: was personally funded and then government funded. It's just one

1:17:05 Speaker 2: of those things that kind of shakes you because you

1:17:07 Speaker 2: got this military guy who can't get access because of

1:17:11 Speaker 2: the private industry that's holding these non terrestrial materials that

1:17:16 Speaker 2: they can't study it. So that's the claim, right now,

1:17:19 Speaker 2: give it some time, let people dig more into this.

1:17:23 Speaker 2: It's fascinating man.

1:17:24 Speaker 1: So you are essentially you're kicked out right, You're out

1:17:32 Speaker 1: of this program. You can't work with these crafts anymore.

1:17:36 Speaker 1: And do they give you any threats? Do they tell

1:17:40 Speaker 1: you what you have to do from here on out?

1:17:43 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I mean the way it ended was I

1:17:48 Speaker 3: told George Knapp all this stuff, and you know, he said, well,

1:17:52 Speaker 3: let's just get it on tape. Should something happen, at

1:17:54 Speaker 3: least we have a record of it. And I don't

1:17:58 Speaker 3: remember what the ampetus was, but at some point George

1:18:02 Speaker 3: wanted to air it, and he said, you know, you

1:18:05 Speaker 3: make the call on it, and look, if at any

1:18:08 Speaker 3: point you change your mind, we won't air it. And

1:18:12 Speaker 3: it came down to the day where George wants to

1:18:14 Speaker 3: put her on the five o'clock news. He said, this

1:18:16 Speaker 3: is important stuff. People have to know about it, and

1:18:19 Speaker 3: I thought it was too I thought.

1:18:21 Speaker 4: It's kind of a crime.

1:18:22 Speaker 3: I know, you got to keep the technology secret, but

1:18:24 Speaker 3: you can't not tell everybody that this stuff is going on,

1:18:28 Speaker 3: that we have, you know, actual hardware from another civilization.

1:18:32 Speaker 3: It's a big fucking deal, you know, probably the biggest

1:18:35 Speaker 3: one there ever was. And George said, you know, today's

1:18:41 Speaker 3: the day we got to put it on the news,

1:18:43 Speaker 3: or's something to that effect. And when it came right

1:18:46 Speaker 3: down to the time to air it, I changed my

1:18:48 Speaker 3: mind and I said we're not doing it. And that's

1:18:52 Speaker 3: what turned into the famous wrestling match between me and

1:18:55 Speaker 3: George trying to get the tape.

1:18:57 Speaker 4: But he won because he was a bigger guy.

1:19:00 Speaker 1: He actually physically wrestled well.

1:19:01 Speaker 3: I think it was more of a pulling match. I

1:19:03 Speaker 3: don't think we ever hit the ground, but he got

1:19:06 Speaker 3: the tape. He put it in the player and Boom

1:19:08 Speaker 3: five o'clock news was on and then I got a

1:19:11 Speaker 3: call after that and they said it was from Dennis.

1:19:14 Speaker 3: He said, you have any idea what we're going to

1:19:16 Speaker 3: do to you now? And he hung up the phone.

1:19:18 Speaker 3: That was the last communication I had with him.

1:19:22 Speaker 1: And what has happened to you since then?

1:19:25 Speaker 3: After that, a lot of people I've known either were

1:19:34 Speaker 3: audited by the IRS, people had Anybody I know that

1:19:37 Speaker 3: had clearances that worked in secure programs had the clearances pulled.

1:19:42 Speaker 3: One of them, friend, that one of mine that Jeremy knows.

1:19:47 Speaker 2: He's doing on camera with me soon he'll tell the

1:19:49 Speaker 2: story now that he's out of work up there.

1:19:51 Speaker 3: He was working up at the Tono Potest range waiting

1:19:54 Speaker 3: for his clearance to come through, and you know.

1:19:56 Speaker 4: They pulled that.

1:19:57 Speaker 3: It became it's like, if they can't get the person

1:20:01 Speaker 3: that's involved, they just create a problem for everybody that

1:20:05 Speaker 3: surrounds them. And so, I mean, the way it turns out,

1:20:08 Speaker 3: it hurt a lot of people's lives that I was

1:20:11 Speaker 3: connected to, and that's an effective way of shutting someone up.

1:20:16 Speaker 1: So did you feel that by coming forward and going

1:20:18 Speaker 1: public they couldn't just snuff you out?

1:20:20 Speaker 3: That was I mean that's what I was told in

1:20:22 Speaker 3: George and everybody you know said that you got to

1:20:25 Speaker 3: it's public, there's no one will touch you.

1:20:27 Speaker 4: And I you know, I.

1:20:29 Speaker 1: Fell for it, and I wish you didn't.

1:20:35 Speaker 3: Yeah.

1:20:35 Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes when it's just over stressed and people are

1:20:38 Speaker 1: camping on your lawn.

1:20:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's this is going to make things worse

1:20:42 Speaker 3: doing this.

1:20:43 Speaker 1: No, this is going to make things better.

1:20:45 Speaker 2: I'm trying to tell them, how is this going to.

1:20:47 Speaker 4: Make things better?

1:20:48 Speaker 1: Because you're getting a real chance to explain yourself in

1:20:51 Speaker 1: a way that's going to make people who are not

1:20:55 Speaker 1: only work in the government, people that are police officers,

1:20:59 Speaker 1: fire fighters and first responders and doctors and scientists. They're

1:21:03 Speaker 1: going to empathize, emphasize, empathize, and empathize with what it

1:21:11 Speaker 1: must be like to be a person like you in

1:21:13 Speaker 1: your twenties who gets thrust into this world unknowingly and

1:21:18 Speaker 1: confronted with one of the most, if not the most

1:21:23 Speaker 1: important discovery in the history of human beings. The big question,

1:21:28 Speaker 1: Are we alone? It's the number one question. There's two questions, right,

1:21:32 Speaker 1: what happens when we die? And are we alone? Those

1:21:35 Speaker 1: are the two big questions, right, and if we're not alone,

1:21:39 Speaker 1: and someone knows we're not alone, and these some people

1:21:43 Speaker 1: who know we're not alone, are these bungling? Sort of.

1:21:49 Speaker 3: It's a crime. Yet they're not telling the rest of us.

1:21:52 Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't mean bungling in terms they're incompetent.

1:21:55 Speaker 1: I mean they can't be competent. It seems to me

1:21:58 Speaker 1: to what you're describing that no one can be competent

1:22:00 Speaker 1: with this technology, like the Victorian Victorian era scholars analyzing

1:22:06 Speaker 1: some sort of a nuclear reactor. There's there's no way.

1:22:09 Speaker 2: Why do you think, Why do you think they're not

1:22:11 Speaker 2: telling us. Let's just make an assumption that this is

1:22:13 Speaker 2: true right now. Why do you think that they're not

1:22:17 Speaker 2: telling us that our government doesn't tell us?

1:22:19 Speaker 1: What's your best Well, let me put it into what

1:22:21 Speaker 1: would you do if I'm the president, okay, and I

1:22:25 Speaker 1: get this information? What do I do with this? What

1:22:27 Speaker 1: do I do with this? There's something that we don't know.

1:22:29 Speaker 1: There's something we don't understand. There's something that came from

1:22:32 Speaker 1: another world. We got it tucked away in the mountains,

1:22:34 Speaker 1: and I just want you guys know about it. Hey,

1:22:37 Speaker 1: sleep tight, Hey American not is on tonight? Who do

1:22:39 Speaker 1: you think is gonna win? Who's gonna win America's talent?

1:22:43 Speaker 2: So one is uncertainty and the other one is what

1:22:46 Speaker 2: Bob and I have talked about a lot, absolutely not

1:22:49 Speaker 2: knowing what to tell people because you don't really understand

1:22:51 Speaker 2: it yourself even.

1:22:52 Speaker 1: Though you've got what do you say if you want

1:22:54 Speaker 1: to run a government, you want to get people to

1:22:56 Speaker 1: pay their tax, but there's something else?

1:22:58 Speaker 2: So you have these objects line with impunity, right, and

1:23:01 Speaker 2: you have something else.

1:23:02 Speaker 1: Well, not only that, what can you say, like how

1:23:05 Speaker 1: much do you really know?

1:23:06 Speaker 3: I think it's mainly the technology. They just want to

1:23:08 Speaker 3: keep the technology secret because there's.

1:23:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, whoever gets the dude?

1:23:13 Speaker 3: Yea, you you control were you become. You literally become

1:23:17 Speaker 3: invincible once you master the technology. You can't you cannot

1:23:21 Speaker 3: penetrate a field like that. So I imagine that's I know,

1:23:24 Speaker 3: it's all science fiction, but science fiction turns into science fact.

1:23:28 Speaker 3: If you have real force fields around aircraft and battleships,

1:23:33 Speaker 3: you you win. You win. You can force your will

1:23:36 Speaker 3: upon anybody. And uh, like I said, there's so much

1:23:40 Speaker 3: more to the story. When I was first there, there

1:23:44 Speaker 3: were Russian scientists at S four that was this was

1:23:47 Speaker 3: early on in the project.

1:23:48 Speaker 1: So this was before Operation paper Clip became public as well, right.

1:23:51 Speaker 3: I would imagine that was I don't know what the

1:23:53 Speaker 3: dates were.

1:23:54 Speaker 2: When was that when ninety eight?

1:23:56 Speaker 1: I think eight?

1:23:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know the dates on it.

1:24:00 Speaker 1: Off ten years later, Operation paper Clip becomes Freedom of

1:24:03 Speaker 1: Information Act.

1:24:04 Speaker 2: We said, abou Russia, not Germany. You have it Russian scientists.

1:24:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean Russian scientists. A lot of them

1:24:09 Speaker 1: came from Germany. A lot of those those rocket scientists

1:24:12 Speaker 1: that worked with NASA, they all came from Nazi scientists,

1:24:15 Speaker 1: got it. So some Russians got some of them.

1:24:18 Speaker 3: I just know that at some point there was intense

1:24:21 Speaker 3: cooperation with I mean even exchanging some ideas on nuclear

1:24:25 Speaker 3: weapons and you know, EMP tests and things we would

1:24:28 Speaker 3: never have discussed with them. But at the same time,

1:24:30 Speaker 3: it was in the late eighties they were involved and

1:24:33 Speaker 3: actually in the area at S four with US.

1:24:37 Speaker 1: And you got to communicate with these guys or you saw.

1:24:39 Speaker 3: Them, No, I knew they were there.

1:24:40 Speaker 1: Barry.

1:24:41 Speaker 3: Barry would talk about the comedies that were there. Comedy, Yeah,

1:24:44 Speaker 3: the comedies, and.

1:24:46 Speaker 1: That was back when they were the comedies.

1:24:48 Speaker 3: Yeah, they were real comedies and at some point it

1:24:54 Speaker 3: wasn't our group. But at some point there was a

1:24:56 Speaker 3: big discovery made. And this did not happen when I

1:25:00 Speaker 3: was there. It happened in between my trips to there,

1:25:03 Speaker 3: and after that. Apparently they decided it was just too

1:25:07 Speaker 3: cool to share with anybody, and the Russians weren't never

1:25:09 Speaker 3: allowed back on the base after that.

1:25:11 Speaker 1: But you don't know what that discovery was.

1:25:12 Speaker 3: No, Now, I guessaid it wasn't my group. So one

1:25:14 Speaker 3: of the other groups really found out something. But the

1:25:19 Speaker 3: you know, in typical American fashion, is all right, this

1:25:22 Speaker 3: is ours you guys, get the hell out of here.

1:25:24 Speaker 1: Was there any inkling that any other government had something similar?

1:25:29 Speaker 4: No, nothing that I had heard.

1:25:31 Speaker 1: See. That was the thing that always freaked me out

1:25:33 Speaker 1: was why, if, if something was so superior to human beings.

1:25:37 Speaker 1: It's almost like visiting an ant colony, like why would

1:25:40 Speaker 1: you go to the queen. I don't give a fuck

1:25:42 Speaker 1: who the queen is. I'm a human. I'm so superior

1:25:44 Speaker 1: to you ants. I don't care who you have running

1:25:46 Speaker 1: your hive. I'm just gonna study it.

1:25:48 Speaker 3: I think it's who got it?

1:25:50 Speaker 1: Who got it?

1:25:50 Speaker 3: Look at the you know, rocket technology in Germany.

1:25:53 Speaker 1: But they got nine of them.

1:25:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either. So they

1:25:58 Speaker 3: were either in the same area or you know, one

1:26:02 Speaker 3: head clues to where others were. I mean, I don't know,

1:26:05 Speaker 3: you have to fill that in there, but you're right,

1:26:07 Speaker 3: I mean, nine of them, that's a that's a big

1:26:11 Speaker 3: dig if it was archaeological.

1:26:12 Speaker 1: Well, one of the more recent the recent sightings and

1:26:16 Speaker 1: these discussions that have been coming out recently from Air

1:26:20 Speaker 1: Force pilots and Navy pilots, they've been talking about things

1:26:22 Speaker 1: happening in the ocean and that that something literally goes

1:26:27 Speaker 1: into the water or something maybe below the surface.

1:26:29 Speaker 2: Thing about the water two thousand and four Tik Tak

1:26:31 Speaker 2: Nimics case. So that's when George Knap and I broke

1:26:33 Speaker 2: on the radio twice before the New York Times, So

1:26:35 Speaker 2: I know this one really well. Commander Frevor and those

1:26:38 Speaker 2: pilots there was a disturbance on the surface of the water.

1:26:43 Speaker 2: Commander Frever visually saw what looked like similar to a

1:26:47 Speaker 2: cross some object. So it's like as if you have

1:26:50 Speaker 2: some coral under the water and you've got it's breaking

1:26:52 Speaker 2: over right. The tic tac is doing this crazy maneuver

1:26:55 Speaker 2: that defies it's a gravity propelled system.

1:26:58 Speaker 1: They saw it in the sky before this saw on water. Right.

1:27:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was there were radar that was picking

1:27:03 Speaker 2: these things coming down from eighty thousand feet and dropping

1:27:05 Speaker 2: fifty feet in less than a second.

1:27:08 Speaker 1: This is it, Jamie. This is actually on the news today.

1:27:10 Speaker 1: There was a briefing.

1:27:11 Speaker 2: So a lot of people get this confused. Not this

1:27:14 Speaker 2: one then either, No, So that is called the gimbal.

1:27:17 Speaker 2: So there's three videos released by the Pentagon that are

1:27:20 Speaker 2: all actually I would really just pay attention to the

1:27:25 Speaker 2: source videos. So you've got the tic TAC, which is

1:27:27 Speaker 2: this object that Commander Freber saw. Another pilot filmed it

1:27:31 Speaker 2: with a fleer pod and it goes. But this one

1:27:34 Speaker 2: you see is really important to Bob's story, the gimbal craft.

1:27:38 Speaker 2: It's been recently analyzed. It's flear Not only does it

1:27:42 Speaker 2: it's definitive that it's not conventional anything by its movements,

1:27:47 Speaker 2: but there's a pocket of cold air around a propulsion source.

1:27:52 Speaker 2: So this object, by the way, sat stationary for days,

1:27:56 Speaker 2: if not weeks. It's sat stationary.

1:27:58 Speaker 1: They found it eleven hours later and they were saying

1:28:00 Speaker 1: there's no way this thing using that kind of energy

1:28:03 Speaker 1: to go that fast could just hover.

1:28:05 Speaker 2: The amount of time. And by the way, you're seeing

1:28:07 Speaker 2: a very small part of what happened that day. This

1:28:10 Speaker 2: object was not alone and so hopefully that information comes

1:28:14 Speaker 2: out and we can I mean, I wish we had

1:28:17 Speaker 2: video of it. I'm sure we'd all want to see it.

1:28:19 Speaker 2: But that's called the gimbal that was East Coast right

1:28:23 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, West Coast two thousand and four is the

1:28:26 Speaker 2: tic TAC. The disturbance on the water. Commander Freber believes

1:28:30 Speaker 2: there was something under that water that was causing that

1:28:33 Speaker 2: disturbance when the TICTAC was coming around and doing it

1:28:36 Speaker 2: withinside the people that are studying this, they're thinking maybe

1:28:39 Speaker 2: the tic TAC system was causing the disturbance, But the

1:28:43 Speaker 2: USO and identified submerged object that he visually saw. The

1:28:49 Speaker 2: whole interesting thing about that is I would love Bob

1:28:51 Speaker 2: to describe it is why it doesn't matter if these

1:28:54 Speaker 2: craft are in space, air, or water. Why doesn't it matter?

1:28:58 Speaker 2: I love when he talks about this well.

1:29:01 Speaker 3: First of all, Commander FRAVERR was the F eighteen pilot

1:29:04 Speaker 3: off the Knemetz that was sent out to find out

1:29:06 Speaker 3: what this stuff is. And it wasn't just I got

1:29:10 Speaker 3: a chance to talk to him recently, and it wasn't

1:29:13 Speaker 3: just a radar image. I mean Commander Fraver had eyes

1:29:16 Speaker 3: on it for over five minutes, watching this thing as

1:29:20 Speaker 3: four other pilots did. So this wasn't a radar blip

1:29:23 Speaker 3: or anything. I mean, these guys were watching this thing.

1:29:26 Speaker 3: But you know, one of the things I think in

1:29:29 Speaker 3: the gimbal video, the way the craft that we worked

1:29:33 Speaker 3: on flies is it doesn't fly like a conventional aircraft does,

1:29:41 Speaker 3: and it doesn't fly like a flying saucer Winter in

1:29:44 Speaker 3: a nineteen fifties movie. It flies belly first. I mean

1:29:48 Speaker 3: it may set down conventionally, but it always rotates. It

1:29:52 Speaker 3: does a roll maneuver, puts its belly towards the target,

1:29:55 Speaker 3: and then moves away.

1:29:56 Speaker 1: At high speed car flying with the wheels forward right right.

1:30:01 Speaker 3: I mean, it may lift land on the wheels, but

1:30:03 Speaker 3: at some point when it wants to leave, flips up,

1:30:07 Speaker 3: points the wheels where it wants to go and takes off.

1:30:09 Speaker 3: And the gimbal video you can see the craft do

1:30:12 Speaker 3: the role maneuver, and it's really interesting. It behaves exactly

1:30:17 Speaker 3: like the craft that I worked on.

1:30:18 Speaker 1: So much like we have different shaped aircrafts and fighter

1:30:22 Speaker 1: jets and cars. They probably have different shapes of these

1:30:27 Speaker 1: objects that operate under similar.

1:30:29 Speaker 3: Principles, but they all have the same power source.

1:30:33 Speaker 1: All the same power source. And we're also dealing with

1:30:36 Speaker 1: if you think about the laws of technological progression, you know,

1:30:42 Speaker 1: you think of Moore's law, and you think of how

1:30:44 Speaker 1: things accelerate, you've got to think that if this civilization is,

1:30:49 Speaker 1: who knows how many years more advanced than we are,

1:30:52 Speaker 1: if not even years. I mean, I mean we're thinking

1:30:55 Speaker 1: about in terms of conventional terms, right the way we

1:30:57 Speaker 1: look at the world. I mean, they meet, they might

1:31:00 Speaker 1: be just superior in terms of their intellect. They've got

1:31:04 Speaker 1: to be. Maybe maybe we don't know right well.

1:31:06 Speaker 3: The only reason I say that is because look, everyone

1:31:12 Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily start at a steam engine and go to

1:31:15 Speaker 3: an internal combustion engine and then you know, electric power,

1:31:19 Speaker 3: nuclear power, and go up the ladder that we come on.

1:31:23 Speaker 3: You know, the binary If the stuff is true about

1:31:25 Speaker 3: the origin and the Binary star system, and they have

1:31:27 Speaker 3: heavier elements that we don't have, and this element stable

1:31:31 Speaker 3: element one point fifteen isn't naturally occurring material. Maybe that's

1:31:35 Speaker 3: the first thing they started experimenting with and the version

1:31:38 Speaker 3: of their steam engine. Their first product was something that

1:31:42 Speaker 3: operated like this, And actually when they came to Earth

1:31:45 Speaker 3: to look around or you know whatever, they were amazed

1:31:48 Speaker 3: at the stuff we were doing. These guys burn stuff

1:31:50 Speaker 3: and squirted out the back to go forward. So you know,

1:31:54 Speaker 3: who says they follow any kind of normal progression like that?

1:31:57 Speaker 1: My thought was, if you went back to the fourteen

1:32:01 Speaker 1: hundreds and then you went from fourteen hundred to fifteen hundred,

1:32:04 Speaker 1: you're not going to see that much of a difference. Technologically,

1:32:07 Speaker 1: if you go from two thousand to three thousand, I

1:32:10 Speaker 1: assume there's going to be a radical change, right.

1:32:12 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the delta, the rate of change is magnificently

1:32:18 Speaker 3: higher than it used to be.

1:32:20 Speaker 1: Right, So, if you think about what they had in

1:32:23 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight and you think about what they probably

1:32:26 Speaker 1: have in twenty nineteen, just logically seems like they would advance.

1:32:32 Speaker 3: I would think.

1:32:33 Speaker 1: So the only question is like are they living? Is

1:32:38 Speaker 1: that a living thing in terms of like a biological thing,

1:32:42 Speaker 1: or are they some sort of an artificially created creation

1:32:46 Speaker 1: like we are working on right now. I mean, we're

1:32:48 Speaker 1: in the middle of working on artificial reality, artificial beings,

1:32:52 Speaker 1: sentient beings, artificial intelligence, there's constant there's silicon based life

1:32:56 Speaker 1: forms that they're essentially trying to create Boston Dynamic or

1:33:00 Speaker 1: was it Boston Dynamics at the companies robots.

1:33:03 Speaker 2: You can make machines out of flesh, right, So cyborg

1:33:06 Speaker 2: or cybernetic organism is just that, you know, that's what

1:33:08 Speaker 2: a lot of people think those like gray things are,

1:33:11 Speaker 2: you know that people call the grays. It's like they

1:33:13 Speaker 2: were like their machines printed from flesh. So what you're

1:33:16 Speaker 2: saying is.

1:33:17 Speaker 3: Like synthetic that they don't even need to be, you know, machines.

1:33:23 Speaker 1: Well, they seem to have no sex organs the way

1:33:25 Speaker 1: they're described by people that have had interactions with them,

1:33:27 Speaker 1: Assuming these people aren't liars or crazy or whatever, they

1:33:32 Speaker 1: have no sex organs, and that they don't seem to

1:33:35 Speaker 1: have any muscle that're's almost like a frame. And they

1:33:38 Speaker 1: have enormous heads. I mean, if you look at Australia

1:33:43 Speaker 1: pithecus or depictions of you know, ancient hominids, and then

1:33:46 Speaker 1: you go to human beings, one of the things you

1:33:48 Speaker 1: see is bigger heads and weaker bodies.

1:33:50 Speaker 3: Well you see some clear progression of evolution too, where

1:33:54 Speaker 3: or something like that. I would lean towards synthetic organism

1:33:58 Speaker 3: because it looks like it was made for a specific task.

1:34:01 Speaker 3: There are no reproductive organs, so I mean that almost

1:34:03 Speaker 3: kind of leaves out any kind of you know, physical evolution.

1:34:07 Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's also our bottleneck, right, Our bottleneck is

1:34:10 Speaker 1: our biological imperative, the need to breed, emotions, fear, anxiety,

1:34:16 Speaker 1: all these different things that exist in order to force

1:34:20 Speaker 1: us into making sure we reproduce. I mean, that's essentially

1:34:23 Speaker 1: with it is a human reward systems that aren't necessary

1:34:27 Speaker 1: once they can figure out a way to make some

1:34:29 Speaker 1: sort of sentient, artificial life, some sort of thing that

1:34:32 Speaker 1: doesn't have these biological limitations that we have.

1:34:35 Speaker 2: By the way, these craft, all these different kinds have

1:34:37 Speaker 2: been reported because it was confusing. I always thought of

1:34:39 Speaker 2: flying sausag as what I heard Bob Lazar talk about

1:34:41 Speaker 2: fling saucer. Right, But if you look back in history,

1:34:44 Speaker 2: people have always reported the weirdest shapes, like none of

1:34:47 Speaker 2: them are alike. You know, there are other saucers, but

1:34:50 Speaker 2: you got cigar shaped, you got you know, the top

1:34:53 Speaker 2: hat shaped you have orbs. Why maybe they're serving different purposes,

1:34:57 Speaker 2: They're doing different things, like we'd use different tools. And

1:35:00 Speaker 2: I want to be clear. The reason I know that

1:35:02 Speaker 2: memo is real is because I spend a lot of

1:35:04 Speaker 2: time with doctor Egar Mitchell, six man to walk on

1:35:06 Speaker 2: the moon, last guy to film him before he died. Right,

1:35:10 Speaker 2: That's how I know. I don't want any journalists thinking

1:35:12 Speaker 2: I got it from anywhere else. I know because of

1:35:14 Speaker 2: doctor Mitchell, and he said the same thing. Maybe these

1:35:17 Speaker 2: things are performing different tasks, you know, And that's.

1:35:21 Speaker 1: Why I seem if you think about what an alien

1:35:24 Speaker 1: is in terms of are the sort of iconic image

1:35:27 Speaker 1: of an alien, like Steven Spielberg closing cons are the

1:35:30 Speaker 1: third time the third kind alien, They seem like what

1:35:36 Speaker 1: we'd assume a human being would eventually become. Right, And

1:35:40 Speaker 1: if these things are tiny, human beings are smaller than

1:35:42 Speaker 1: they've ever been before. They're weaker than they've ever been before.

1:35:44 Speaker 1: And there seems to be a trend in that direction.

1:35:47 Speaker 1: And this trend seems to be amplified by our technological progression.

1:35:52 Speaker 1: There are a lack of need for muscle strength and

1:35:55 Speaker 1: our lack of need for violence and we're moving in

1:35:58 Speaker 1: a society to try to get away from all the

1:36:01 Speaker 1: things that we think are a boring about human beings

1:36:03 Speaker 1: and the terrible behaviors that we have if we one

1:36:07 Speaker 1: day do give birth to some sort of an artificial being.

1:36:11 Speaker 1: Like Marshall McLuhan's quote, we are the sex organs of

1:36:16 Speaker 1: the machine world. You know that one day week. Yeah,

1:36:21 Speaker 1: mclun was brilliant, and that quote has always been one

1:36:24 Speaker 1: of my favorites, because, Okay, what are we doing when

1:36:26 Speaker 1: we're constantly technologically innovating. We're constantly looking for faster cars,

1:36:31 Speaker 1: better computers, bigger screens, faster, more resolution, more pixels, more this,

1:36:36 Speaker 1: more that, higher bandwidth, five G, ten G. What are

1:36:39 Speaker 1: we doing? We're moving into this in this if you

1:36:41 Speaker 1: just follow it objectively, stand back, don't attach yourself or

1:36:45 Speaker 1: your civilization, your culture to it, and look at what

1:36:47 Speaker 1: it is. We're moving one hundred percent towards technological innovation.

1:36:53 Speaker 1: If you looked at this species from Afar, and if

1:36:55 Speaker 1: you weren't a part of it, you would say, well,

1:36:57 Speaker 1: what does this species do? Oh? They make things? They

1:36:59 Speaker 1: make things better every year. Beehives are the same fucking

1:37:02 Speaker 1: thing that you see ten years ago. You go by,

1:37:04 Speaker 1: I see it be high. It's amazing, it's cool. But

1:37:06 Speaker 1: they're the same fucking thing. They figured out how to

1:37:08 Speaker 1: do it. They make a bee hive. We don't do that.

1:37:11 Speaker 1: We make better things.

1:37:12 Speaker 2: What would you?

1:37:12 Speaker 3: Constantly and at some point I think that technology is

1:37:15 Speaker 3: going to fuse with us. Yes, and we're going to become.

1:37:17 Speaker 1: It's already happening. Elon mus talked about it on my

1:37:20 Speaker 1: podcast that we are cyeboards. You just carry it in

1:37:22 Speaker 1: your pocket. It's a phone. It answers any question you want.

1:37:25 Speaker 1: You can talk to it. It'll give you the answers.

1:37:27 Speaker 1: The answers instantaneously. It navigates you. It has all your

1:37:31 Speaker 1: phone numbers in it, It has all your contacts. You can

1:37:32 Speaker 1: get a hold of people, people listening to you through it.

1:37:35 Speaker 1: It's connecting us in ways, even involuntarily.

1:37:37 Speaker 2: Haptics, that kind of thing.

1:37:39 Speaker 1: It's also getting on your wrist. How many people have

1:37:41 Speaker 1: I watches Apple watches right?

1:37:43 Speaker 3: The risk right, And that's only because we can't integrate

1:37:45 Speaker 3: them yet. But if you know that point.

1:37:47 Speaker 1: Is hundred per Yeah. I didn't joke about it last night,

1:37:50 Speaker 1: but I have a bit about it that I do

1:37:52 Speaker 1: about the integration between humans and technology.

1:37:54 Speaker 2: That's what would you do if you were a hyper intelligence?

1:37:57 Speaker 1: Right?

1:37:58 Speaker 2: Would you do the work yourself? Or would you create

1:38:00 Speaker 2: some cool things called like humans to do it for you?

1:38:03 Speaker 2: Would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to come

1:38:05 Speaker 2: in with machines and do it for you? If you're

1:38:08 Speaker 2: a HyperIntelligence that has kind of changed like you've described,

1:38:11 Speaker 2: you'd probably create workers.

1:38:13 Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's a vast conspiracy theory.

1:38:16 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about conspiracy, but it is a kind

1:38:17 Speaker 2: of a conspiracy asking you well, I mean, I don't

1:38:20 Speaker 2: think it's necessarily that.

1:38:22 Speaker 1: I mean, you could look at it that way, but

1:38:24 Speaker 1: that is the way a conspiracy theorist would look at it.

1:38:26 Speaker 1: The way I would look at it is like, there's

1:38:27 Speaker 1: obviously a progression going on, a biological progression. There's some

1:38:31 Speaker 1: sort of an integration with technology. There's some sort of imperative,

1:38:35 Speaker 1: this need for technological innovation. It's inescapable, everyone has it.

1:38:39 Speaker 1: And I think it's attached to materialism in some sort

1:38:41 Speaker 1: of a strange way, because so many people work so

1:38:45 Speaker 1: hard to get new things, and like God, it seems

1:38:47 Speaker 1: so illogical and preposterous and it makes people unhappy. And

1:38:49 Speaker 1: depressions on the rise, but nobody seems to be able

1:38:51 Speaker 1: to stop it, Like, why is that? Well, maybe it's

1:38:54 Speaker 1: because we are the electronic caterpillars that give birth to

1:38:59 Speaker 1: the bug or fly. Maybe that's what we're doing. Maybe

1:39:02 Speaker 1: what our job is to do is to make some

1:39:05 Speaker 1: sort of a cocoon and we don't even know we're

1:39:07 Speaker 1: doing it while we're doing it. Do you think a

1:39:09 Speaker 1: caterpillar as well? Hey caterpillar, what are you doing?

1:39:12 Speaker 5: Man?

1:39:12 Speaker 1: Just I'm doing my thing. It's my job. I have

1:39:14 Speaker 1: to make a cocoon.

1:39:15 Speaker 4: Then I'm a But this could be a natural part

1:39:17 Speaker 4: of evolution.

1:39:18 Speaker 3: It could be that we're just supposed to do this

1:39:20 Speaker 3: exactly and make the jump to some sort of mechanized right. Yeah.

1:39:25 Speaker 1: An orangutan that is fishing with a spear. No, they've

1:39:31 Speaker 1: figured out how to fish with spears. There's there's some primatologists.

1:39:37 Speaker 3: Without somebody showing them how to fish.

1:39:39 Speaker 1: No, they've imitated human beings doing it and now they

1:39:42 Speaker 1: do it. But they do it independently. They're not trained rangutans.

1:39:46 Speaker 1: They're wild rang Look at that. There's a wild that's impressive.

1:39:51 Speaker 4: That's impressive.

1:39:52 Speaker 1: Well, there's these primatologists. I guess you would call them primatologists.

1:39:56 Speaker 1: That's the term.

1:39:56 Speaker 4: That's a great.

1:39:57 Speaker 1: Biologists, biologists that believe that monkeys and chimps and some

1:40:03 Speaker 1: of the great apes are moving into the Stone Age,

1:40:05 Speaker 1: that they've currently entered the Stone Age, like they're not

1:40:09 Speaker 1: staying what they were one hundred thousand years ago or

1:40:12 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand years ago, but they're actively using tools

1:40:15 Speaker 1: and they're experimenting with different different ways to use those tools.

1:40:19 Speaker 1: And then they're making tools out of stone, they're making

1:40:21 Speaker 1: tools out of sticks, and they're using them. Well, this

1:40:25 Speaker 1: might just be what happens. This might just be what happens.

1:40:30 Speaker 1: I mean, why else, why are we Why the fuck

1:40:32 Speaker 1: we work so hard? I mean, I was driving to

1:40:35 Speaker 1: La this morning. I had a doctor's appointment, so I

1:40:38 Speaker 1: was on the four or five at eight in the morning.

1:40:40 Speaker 1: Like Jesus Christ, like, this is so crazy. When you're

1:40:43 Speaker 1: in the four or five in La at eight o'clock

1:40:44 Speaker 1: in the morning, you see literally a million cars and

1:40:47 Speaker 1: it's just everywhere you go as people. But and also

1:40:50 Speaker 1: I'm in a tesla, so I have it on an autopilot,

1:40:53 Speaker 1: so I'm there sitting I'm listening to a podcast. I

1:40:55 Speaker 1: barely have my hand on the wheel. I'm not touching shit.

1:40:58 Speaker 1: This car is driving me along. I'm not even doing anything.

1:41:01 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just hanging out. It's so much less

1:41:04 Speaker 1: strapped by the way to do it that way. So

1:41:06 Speaker 1: it encourages you to to innovate. It encourages you to

1:41:09 Speaker 1: embrace this new technology. I got this giant screen. It's

1:41:12 Speaker 1: showing me the navigation in front of me. Oh, I

1:41:15 Speaker 1: be there five minutes early, excellent. And I'm listening to

1:41:17 Speaker 1: a podcast wirelessly. It's Bluetooth scream streaming from my phone.

1:41:22 Speaker 1: And I pulled that podcast which came out today out

1:41:25 Speaker 1: of the fucking sky, and I'm listening to it. And

1:41:27 Speaker 1: I'm all comfortable in my nice little car, just driving

1:41:30 Speaker 1: on my way to the doctor's office.

1:41:31 Speaker 4: This is irresistible stuff.

1:41:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's different than your walkman, irresistible.

1:41:37 Speaker 3: It's frighteningly irresistible.

1:41:39 Speaker 1: But is it frightening? I mean, if you were a monkey, right,

1:41:41 Speaker 1: if you were an Australia pithecus, would you go? Man,

1:41:45 Speaker 1: I don't want to fucking be a person. I live

1:41:47 Speaker 1: in a house. That's bullshit. I like just swinging around

1:41:49 Speaker 1: on trees I like running from jaguars. This is life, guys.

1:41:53 Speaker 1: Life is running from crocodiles. It's not living in a suburban.

1:41:56 Speaker 3: There's probably some that are like that.

1:41:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I think. I think when

1:42:01 Speaker 1: it comes, we're going to embrace it. We're gonna embrace

1:42:03 Speaker 1: it the same way embrace cell phones, the same way

1:42:05 Speaker 1: embrace television. There's gonna be a few holdouts, so I

1:42:08 Speaker 1: don't even have an email address. Man, those there's a

1:42:11 Speaker 1: few and far between. The good luck with that, fuck face,

1:42:13 Speaker 1: go move to the woods. Ted Kaczinsky. Ted Kazinski was right.

1:42:18 Speaker 1: This is something that I think about sometimes when I

1:42:20 Speaker 1: get really high. That Ted Kazinski was a part of

1:42:24 Speaker 1: the Harvard LSD studies. This has been proven. Ted Kazinski,

1:42:27 Speaker 1: they cooked his fucking brain when he was at Harvard

1:42:30 Speaker 1: and then when he went over to Berkeley and became

1:42:32 Speaker 1: a professor. His goal was to make enough money so

1:42:34 Speaker 1: that he could implement this program and live in the

1:42:37 Speaker 1: woods and then write his manifesto and start killing people

1:42:40 Speaker 1: that were involved in propagating technology.

1:42:42 Speaker 2: He was expunged from the Harvard logs. By the way,

1:42:46 Speaker 2: this is something my friend just called me about. So

1:42:49 Speaker 2: there's like this private library and they used to print

1:42:52 Speaker 2: people's names whenever they were part of a university, and

1:42:55 Speaker 2: he was one of a handful of people that were

1:42:57 Speaker 2: expunged from it. I want to jump back to the

1:43:00 Speaker 2: one thing, Joe, I want to be very careful with

1:43:02 Speaker 2: that word conspiracy theorist. What I was, what I was

1:43:05 Speaker 2: saying to you, is we terraform our earth, right, we terriform,

1:43:09 Speaker 2: we change the environment, we do all this innovation. What

1:43:13 Speaker 2: is stopping us from thinking that that's not being done?

1:43:16 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it is. I'm saying what's stopping us

1:43:18 Speaker 2: from thinking that that's being done on a much bigger level,

1:43:21 Speaker 2: on a cosmic level.

1:43:22 Speaker 1: You mean like aliens coming down doing that the humans.

1:43:25 Speaker 2: So I'm telling you that there is something here that's

1:43:27 Speaker 2: there's a fact, you know, there's something there are a craft.

1:43:30 Speaker 2: They're here. They're not ours, they're here. So the question

1:43:33 Speaker 2: is what is that about? And I'm just looking at

1:43:36 Speaker 2: what we do with what you're describing with technology.

1:43:39 Speaker 1: I think it's much more likely that the same way

1:43:42 Speaker 1: we observe chimps and we observe that they are now

1:43:45 Speaker 1: in the Stone Age, that they're observing us and that

1:43:47 Speaker 1: they're recognizing that there is a pattern, that there is

1:43:50 Speaker 1: a there's a steps that happen. I mean, Carl Sagan

1:43:53 Speaker 1: talked about the different levels of civilization and that you

1:43:56 Speaker 1: know that if we don't get past certain levels, we're

1:43:58 Speaker 1: never going to reach this mean we're in.

1:44:01 Speaker 2: Going to stay a type zero.

1:44:02 Speaker 1: Well, we're in this warring, polluting, pillaging. We're awesome civilization. Well,

1:44:09 Speaker 1: I mean we're awesome in a lot of.

1:44:11 Speaker 2: Ways, you know, but in that way we're not.

1:44:12 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we're we're children that have immense power that

1:44:16 Speaker 1: we didn't. Really, the other thing is you're using the

1:44:18 Speaker 1: immense power that other people have created, right, I mean,

1:44:22 Speaker 1: even when you're driving a car and you're stomping on

1:44:23 Speaker 1: the gas like, whoo, you didn't invent the fucking engine,

1:44:27 Speaker 1: you didn't invent tires. There's all these things that were

1:44:30 Speaker 1: involved in the creation of this thing that is really

1:44:34 Speaker 1: outside of your grasp of understanding, but yet you have

1:44:38 Speaker 1: the ability to use it. Like a person with a gun,

1:44:40 Speaker 1: I'm just going to bang, bang bang people. You don't

1:44:42 Speaker 1: you didn't invent a gun. So like you've you've without

1:44:45 Speaker 1: the intellect to craft and engineer, and and manifest these creations.

1:44:52 Speaker 1: You just have access to them because you have paper,

1:44:54 Speaker 1: or you have bitcoin, or you have whatever the fuck

1:44:56 Speaker 1: you're using using a credit card. Now you have almost

1:44:59 Speaker 1: no responsibility. You just you could just flippantly use these things.

1:45:03 Speaker 1: Which is why we, you know, we were very childlike

1:45:07 Speaker 1: in our actions, because we haven't had to earn the responsibility.

1:45:11 Speaker 1: We haven't had to earn these things that we've been

1:45:14 Speaker 1: able to have, And you've only been able to have

1:45:16 Speaker 1: them because other people have innovated and spent ungodly amounts

1:45:21 Speaker 1: of time and effort and focus in the lab to

1:45:23 Speaker 1: create these things. And then they've all put them together.

1:45:26 Speaker 1: And then what is the what's the reason to put

1:45:28 Speaker 1: them together? To profit? Well, what's the reason of profit?

1:45:30 Speaker 1: Why are you doing this so you can buy more things?

1:45:33 Speaker 1: What are we doing? What are we doing? We're making

1:45:35 Speaker 1: better things? That's what we do. That's all they do.

1:45:37 Speaker 3: All we do is make bets.

1:45:39 Speaker 1: Why the fuck do we need oil? Why do we

1:45:41 Speaker 1: need oil? Why can't we just burn wood and stay home?

1:45:43 Speaker 1: Why can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard?

1:45:46 Speaker 1: Why can't we do it? Well, we fucking can. We

1:45:48 Speaker 1: certainly can people do do it, but we decide to

1:45:51 Speaker 1: make that almost impossible. Our preferred way of living is

1:45:54 Speaker 1: to stuff everyone into a very small area where no

1:45:57 Speaker 1: one grows anything other than weed. This is what la

1:46:00 Speaker 1: is La is. Twenty million people with hard surfaces, as

1:46:04 Speaker 1: many hard surfaces as you can. Boy, if you got

1:46:06 Speaker 1: an acre backyard in La, Holy shit, look at all

1:46:08 Speaker 1: that grain. This is amazing. Well, no, that's the fucking

1:46:11 Speaker 1: earth coming through this weird sort of creation that we've

1:46:16 Speaker 1: put on top of the earth. But the goal is

1:46:17 Speaker 1: that like New York City, there's none of it, right,

1:46:20 Speaker 1: you just got you've got Central Park and they just

1:46:22 Speaker 1: got human shit stacked up. No one's growing anything. And

1:46:26 Speaker 1: then constant work. Everyone's up early, go, go, go innovate, progress,

1:46:32 Speaker 1: make that money so you can buy more things. And

1:46:34 Speaker 1: every year, hey Apple, where's this fucking new phone? As

1:46:38 Speaker 1: if your phone isn't good enough? Yeah, like your phone's

1:46:41 Speaker 1: taking pictures and videos and people are calling you when

1:46:44 Speaker 1: you've got applications to tell you which way the wind's blowing.

1:46:47 Speaker 1: It's not good enough.

1:46:48 Speaker 2: A blink of an eye, blink of an eye. It's

1:46:50 Speaker 2: all gone though that you know, like ten thousand years

1:46:52 Speaker 2: and the Hoover dam goes or whatever, you know, Mount

1:46:54 Speaker 2: Rushmore disintegrates. So it's amazing because we have created that

1:46:58 Speaker 2: and everything's trying to spring up through that. We keep

1:47:00 Speaker 2: it maintenance down, but we're a blink man. Something hits, but.

1:47:04 Speaker 1: We don't think that way. Well, you know, you think

1:47:06 Speaker 1: in terms of your own life, right you think in

1:47:08 Speaker 1: terms of what you want and what you need. Right now,

1:47:11 Speaker 1: you know what we are in many ways, this combination

1:47:15 Speaker 1: of this weird primitive ape like thing with the ability

1:47:20 Speaker 1: to calculate and manipulate our world and our environment that

1:47:24 Speaker 1: makes us wholly unique. On top of that with existential

1:47:26 Speaker 1: angst and fear. So what do you do with that?

1:47:29 Speaker 1: With fucking water down with antidepressants. Give these fucking people

1:47:33 Speaker 1: some shit that keeps them moving. Who they're worried about

1:47:35 Speaker 1: the future. They're trying to figure out what reality is.

1:47:37 Speaker 1: It's you're on a goddamn convertible spaceship spending one thousand

1:47:41 Speaker 1: miles an hour hurling through infinity. There's no meaning to

1:47:44 Speaker 1: this thing. Just keep making shit, keep making stuff, and

1:47:47 Speaker 1: then one day they're going to be able to hit

1:47:49 Speaker 1: that switch and this life will be born out of

1:47:53 Speaker 1: innovation and thinking and progress. And technology, and more than

1:47:58 Speaker 1: likely it's probably going to be what we're seeing, that

1:48:01 Speaker 1: these things are that you're observing.

1:48:04 Speaker 2: I'm not observing them, but yeah, someone.

1:48:07 Speaker 4: Are you implying that they're us?

1:48:09 Speaker 1: I don't think they are us, but I think they

1:48:11 Speaker 1: are what happens when things keep going. It's not us,

1:48:15 Speaker 1: just like we're not monkeys, right, I'm not a chimp.

1:48:20 Speaker 2: They're from here? Is your idea?

1:48:22 Speaker 1: No? No, no, that this is what happens all over

1:48:25 Speaker 1: the universe? Yea, but this is what happened. Look, here's

1:48:28 Speaker 1: the thing, you know. I went to see Brian Cox's.

1:48:31 Speaker 1: He has this amazing live show with Robin Ins where

1:48:35 Speaker 1: they have these led screens, these huge screens with these

1:48:40 Speaker 1: high resolution depictions of the cosmos, and one of the

1:48:43 Speaker 1: most mind blowing things was he has this large scale

1:48:48 Speaker 1: image of the universe and it shows all the individual

1:48:51 Speaker 1: galaxies of the universe, and it just keeps moving through

1:48:54 Speaker 1: all these galaxies in three dimensions and it's fucking incredible.

1:48:58 Speaker 1: But what's stunning is the real uniformity of it. Even

1:49:02 Speaker 1: at you know, I mean, you're obviously looking at an

1:49:05 Speaker 1: incredibly small depiction of something that's immensely large, like a

1:49:10 Speaker 1: galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars. You're seeing it

1:49:12 Speaker 1: as this little dot, but this little dot that's flying

1:49:15 Speaker 1: through space surrounded by other little darts with very similarly

1:49:21 Speaker 1: space distances.

1:49:22 Speaker 2: Between all through.

1:49:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like if we see uniformity in that form

1:49:27 Speaker 1: in terms of like the distance between galaxy, like so

1:49:29 Speaker 1: many galaxies is so it's so similar, they might vary slightly,

1:49:33 Speaker 1: and that slightly might be hundreds of millions of light years, right,

1:49:35 Speaker 1: But there's so much uniformity, why would we not assume

1:49:40 Speaker 1: that that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere and that all

1:49:43 Speaker 1: these things that you're seeing that are so similar. You

1:49:45 Speaker 1: do see binary star systems, you do see single star

1:49:49 Speaker 1: systems like stars. But there's also some some speculation that

1:49:51 Speaker 1: Earth and that our solar system is one time was

1:49:54 Speaker 1: a binary star system, right, I mean, that's one of

1:49:56 Speaker 1: the speculations about that that object that they find outside

1:50:00 Speaker 1: the Kuiper Belt, that the thing is ten times larger

1:50:02 Speaker 1: than Earth. They think it might have been at one

1:50:03 Speaker 1: point in time of star. But this this uniformity that

1:50:07 Speaker 1: you see, why wouldn't we think that that that has

1:50:10 Speaker 1: its same implications biologically, that there's some sort of a

1:50:14 Speaker 1: biological uniformity, and that this happens given the right sets

1:50:18 Speaker 1: of circumstances.

1:50:19 Speaker 4: You should be you.

1:50:19 Speaker 2: Should tell them some of the stuff that you've read

1:50:22 Speaker 2: that you don't know is true. I mean, if the

1:50:24 Speaker 2: stuff was true about the propulsion stuff. I mean, anyway, well,

1:50:28 Speaker 2: what have you read what you saw too?

1:50:31 Speaker 1: You know, what are you talking about? Spill the beans, Bob,

1:50:36 Speaker 1: I got to poke the bear hair, get in the well.

1:50:42 Speaker 3: I mean the Again, the only thing I could verify

1:50:47 Speaker 3: was what I had in my hands. On There were

1:50:51 Speaker 3: you know, there was talk of weapon systems, that there

1:50:53 Speaker 3: were different projects, project like Galileo, Project Sidekick was supposed

1:50:57 Speaker 3: to be weapon applications of the craft. Project looking Glass

1:51:02 Speaker 3: had to do with time, any effects of time in

1:51:05 Speaker 3: the craft. Now, I don't think we're not talking about

1:51:08 Speaker 3: making a time machine like in science fiction, but we're

1:51:11 Speaker 3: talking about you know, small distortions, intentional distortions of time,

1:51:15 Speaker 3: and how that can be used you know, as a.

1:51:20 Speaker 4: Not as well.

1:51:21 Speaker 3: It was part of a weapon program.

1:51:22 Speaker 1: How are you informed in this?

1:51:23 Speaker 3: But these again were there's just the small briefings that

1:51:26 Speaker 3: I read. But again I don't really like to talk

1:51:29 Speaker 3: about those because I don't have any information on him,

1:51:31 Speaker 3: and it was just you know, small briefings.

1:51:34 Speaker 2: They told Commander Fravor that what he saw might have

1:51:36 Speaker 2: been a time dilation in it.

1:51:39 Speaker 3: Well, it could be because gravity effects time, you know,

1:51:42 Speaker 3: space time.

1:51:43 Speaker 4: I'm sure you've heard of that.

1:51:44 Speaker 3: And you know what what Commander Fraber saw as he

1:51:49 Speaker 3: was in the F eighteen approaching it, he said he

1:51:53 Speaker 3: described it as a ping pong ball in a cup

1:51:56 Speaker 3: and shaking it back and forth.

1:51:57 Speaker 4: It was moving that fast.

1:51:59 Speaker 3: Now, obviously there's anything inside there, it's going to be

1:52:02 Speaker 3: battered to hell. But you know, my point was was that, well,

1:52:07 Speaker 3: one of two things. Either there's a gravitational envelope in

1:52:11 Speaker 3: there which negates any inertia effects, or you are seeing

1:52:16 Speaker 3: through a gravity distortion field. So you know, just like

1:52:20 Speaker 3: you're looking at a hot highway and you see, you know,

1:52:25 Speaker 3: an optical distortion going through there. Well, the same thing

1:52:28 Speaker 3: happens in gravity, and the craft may not actually be

1:52:30 Speaker 3: moving like that. It may just look like it because

1:52:33 Speaker 3: you're seeing you can only see it through the field,

1:52:37 Speaker 3: so it may be making much more gentle moves. I'm

1:52:40 Speaker 3: not saying that's it, but it has to be one

1:52:43 Speaker 3: of the two.

1:52:44 Speaker 2: And the thing shows up sixty miles away. They noticed

1:52:47 Speaker 2: it on radar sixty seconds after left Commander Favor, but

1:52:52 Speaker 2: it was at his cap point, which is the next

1:52:54 Speaker 2: point he was destined to go to sixty miles away,

1:52:57 Speaker 2: and in sixty seconds on radar, the same object ends

1:53:02 Speaker 2: up there.

1:53:03 Speaker 1: So it's going a mile second.

1:53:05 Speaker 2: No, they I think the radar just picked it up

1:53:08 Speaker 2: in sixty seconds.

1:53:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, it could have been there instantly, but yeah, we

1:53:12 Speaker 3: don't know. Cycle.

1:53:13 Speaker 2: Nobody knows. That's the whole thing is.

1:53:15 Speaker 1: Oh, so it cycles like radar cycles.

1:53:18 Speaker 3: It doesn't sweep, but I mean it yeah, it's a plane,

1:53:22 Speaker 3: so it just you know, it scans around it at

1:53:25 Speaker 3: random places.

1:53:26 Speaker 2: The spy one does it really cool? Yeah, it doesn't

1:53:28 Speaker 2: do the whole loop anymore.

1:53:30 Speaker 3: And the point the point is though, that the craft

1:53:33 Speaker 3: moved to his next location before he knew where his

1:53:37 Speaker 3: next location was going to be. Jesus, And that's I mean,

1:53:42 Speaker 3: that's well documented. So that's a that's a pretty shocking

1:53:47 Speaker 3: piece of information.

1:53:48 Speaker 1: What's fascinating to me too, is that you were discussing

1:53:51 Speaker 1: this the way this reactor worked, and that these things

1:53:56 Speaker 1: were not really connected.

1:53:58 Speaker 3: No, nothing is connected. There's no wiring at all.

1:54:05 Speaker 2: That freaks me the fuck out charge your iPhone, you know, Yeah, yeah.

1:54:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the that's the simple electromagnetic Yeah.

1:54:14 Speaker 3: I know again, but that's just simple electro magnetic induction.

1:54:17 Speaker 1: But I mean, Tesla the scientist had this concept.

1:54:20 Speaker 3: Of right, that's that's that's what I'm talking about for

1:54:22 Speaker 3: other people.

1:54:23 Speaker 1: That I don't know what we're saying that he wanted

1:54:24 Speaker 1: to send wireless electricity through the sky, and Westinghouse was like,

1:54:28 Speaker 1: get the fuck out of here with that, Like when

1:54:30 Speaker 1: anybody could just pull electricity.

1:54:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, they couldn't.

1:54:33 Speaker 4: They couldn't.

1:54:34 Speaker 2: We just talk in the car right over and trying

1:54:36 Speaker 2: to chill him out. You know, we're talking about Tesla

1:54:38 Speaker 2: and now you know he couldn't be metered and how

1:54:40 Speaker 2: it all went down. So it's funny bring it up.

1:54:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, that that I mean, who knows what would have

1:54:46 Speaker 1: happened in terms of animation had he been allowed to

1:54:48 Speaker 1: go forward with that.

1:54:50 Speaker 3: Well, we probably wouldn't have computers, you think. Yeah, I'm

1:54:54 Speaker 3: pretty positive. I mean, forget about microelectronics. Well, this is

1:54:57 Speaker 3: dumping huge amounts of electromagnet energy in the air, and yeah,

1:55:01 Speaker 3: we'd be able to wirelessly turn on our lights, but

1:55:06 Speaker 3: there'd be no radio communication. The interference would be something

1:55:09 Speaker 3: we would be overwhelming. It would induce electric currents in

1:55:13 Speaker 3: anything with a small wire on it, so integrated circuits,

1:55:16 Speaker 3: transistors would be disintegrated before they were even you know,

1:55:20 Speaker 3: tested for operations. So it would it would destroy fucked

1:55:24 Speaker 3: us up.

1:55:24 Speaker 4: Yeah, it would have stopped us dead.

1:55:26 Speaker 3: We'd have it'd be great, you can turn lighters on

1:55:28 Speaker 3: and heaters from all over the place with no wires,

1:55:30 Speaker 3: but it would stop modern electronics.

1:55:33 Speaker 1: And if we became dependent on it, it would almost

1:55:35 Speaker 1: be like our dependence on fossil fuels. Although it's destructive,

1:55:38 Speaker 1: it's very difficult for us to get off the nipple.

1:55:41 Speaker 2: It would have changed the course of how we developed,

1:55:43 Speaker 2: which is so interesting when you talk about if a

1:55:45 Speaker 2: civilization to other star system didn't even start with fossil fuels,

1:55:49 Speaker 2: they had one fifteen naturally on their planet and they're

1:55:51 Speaker 2: like cool, anti gravity's pretty awesome.

1:55:53 Speaker 1: Well, the fact that I.

1:55:54 Speaker 3: Think it's important that that actually happened, Yeah, it might

1:55:58 Speaker 3: have been stopped in its tracks for reason.

1:56:01 Speaker 1: WHOA, And it's just it's I think it's incredibly difficult

1:56:07 Speaker 1: for us to imagine technological progression under another timeline other

1:56:11 Speaker 1: than the one that we've experienced.

1:56:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's difficult if.

1:56:14 Speaker 1: We imagine what this alien race must have been like,

1:56:18 Speaker 1: and I mean, God, just just to be able to

1:56:22 Speaker 1: see something take like, I mean, obviously we've seen it

1:56:25 Speaker 1: in different life forms, right, Like we see the life

1:56:27 Speaker 1: of certain beetles in comparison to the life of certain fish,

1:56:30 Speaker 1: very very different existence, very different life cycles. Octopus, yeah, octopus, yeah,

1:56:36 Speaker 1: I mean we see all these different variables in terms

1:56:38 Speaker 1: of biological entities on Earth, but we don't see it

1:56:41 Speaker 1: in terms of technological innovation, as we're the only one

1:56:44 Speaker 1: that's intelligent that can innovate. We have intelligent creatures, but

1:56:48 Speaker 1: they're in the ocean. The only other thing that are

1:56:50 Speaker 1: like us are dolphins and orcas in whales, and they

1:56:53 Speaker 1: don't have the ability to manipulate their environment. And subsequently,

1:56:56 Speaker 1: because they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment,

1:56:59 Speaker 1: we put them in and we're like, get in the tank,

1:57:02 Speaker 1: do some tricks, right, you know.

1:57:04 Speaker 2: The only thing he saw in the craft, if we're

1:57:06 Speaker 2: considering Bob's story, the only thing that he saw in

1:57:09 Speaker 2: the craft that he related to it looked like a

1:57:12 Speaker 2: human could make. Was this honeycomb hatch And I always

1:57:15 Speaker 2: loved that because you're like obsessed with this thing that

1:57:18 Speaker 2: you could recognize.

1:57:19 Speaker 3: You now the read Yeah. I only focus on that

1:57:21 Speaker 3: because it was the one thing that I understood how

1:57:24 Speaker 3: it worked what wasn't and it was it was the

1:57:26 Speaker 3: access to the level below, and it was well, you know,

1:57:32 Speaker 3: if you take a you have a six pack of

1:57:34 Speaker 3: beer and you take out the cardboard dividers, set it

1:57:38 Speaker 3: on the table, you can put a lot of pressure

1:57:40 Speaker 3: on the top, but if you push it from the sides,

1:57:44 Speaker 3: it collapses flat. So it was something like that in

1:57:47 Speaker 3: a honeycomb shape that was essentially some sort of sheet

1:57:50 Speaker 3: metal and you could walk on that in the upper layer.

1:57:54 Speaker 3: But if you took the corner, stuck your finger in

1:57:57 Speaker 3: and pushed, it collapsed and made an entryway. So I

1:58:01 Speaker 3: thought that was a really unique I had never seen

1:58:04 Speaker 3: that before and it was the only thing in the

1:58:05 Speaker 3: craft that made absolute sense to me. I said, ah,

1:58:08 Speaker 3: we can make that, and all that is is a hatchway.

1:58:11 Speaker 1: Was there any discussion about the materials that were used

1:58:14 Speaker 1: to make the craft.

1:58:16 Speaker 3: I'm sure there was, but that was a metallurgy division

1:58:19 Speaker 3: had nothing to do with us.

1:58:20 Speaker 1: So you never got a.

1:58:22 Speaker 3: Not even the slightest briefing. I don't even know if

1:58:24 Speaker 3: it was a metal or it was ceramic. I think

1:58:27 Speaker 3: there's a fine line between the two.

1:58:30 Speaker 1: Now, one of the things that's happened to you that

1:58:33 Speaker 1: has allowed people to discredit you was there's obviously been

1:58:37 Speaker 1: some sort of an effort to erase your past. Yeah,

1:58:41 Speaker 1: some sort of an effort to erase your education history,

1:58:45 Speaker 1: your employment history at Los Almos. In fact, the only

1:58:49 Speaker 1: way your employment history was proven at Los Almos. So

1:58:51 Speaker 1: someone got a list, a directory of the employees from

1:58:54 Speaker 1: the past and read into it, and you were on

1:58:57 Speaker 1: that list. So it proved that you worked there, even

1:58:59 Speaker 1: though people were trying to n and they were trying

1:59:00 Speaker 1: to use that as a way to discredit you, that

1:59:02 Speaker 1: you never did work at Los Almost you weren't really

1:59:04 Speaker 1: real scientists. What was what was that like to experience?

1:59:08 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, we're talking about the nineteen eighties,

1:59:11 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties when you could get away with something

1:59:13 Speaker 1: like that.

1:59:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously there are a lot less, a lot less

1:59:19 Speaker 3: records on computers at that time. It was still file

1:59:22 Speaker 3: cabinets and folders. But yeah, that was frightening. That was

1:59:26 Speaker 3: one of the first things happened. I think it's I

1:59:29 Speaker 3: think George Knapp was the first one that uncovered that.

1:59:32 Speaker 3: I mean, he saw my birth certificate disappear.

1:59:35 Speaker 1: He disappeared. Yeah, there was no record of your being.

1:59:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was there was no record of that. There

1:59:40 Speaker 3: was no record.

1:59:42 Speaker 2: His mom tells me about that, like, it was frightening

1:59:45 Speaker 2: for her, for he's got a real family, you know,

1:59:47 Speaker 2: he's a real person. It's frightening for her.

1:59:49 Speaker 3: But if the Los Alamos thing really surprised me, and

1:59:53 Speaker 3: that they were so adamant that, no, this guy never

1:59:56 Speaker 3: worked here, don't be ridiculous. And George went back and forth,

1:59:59 Speaker 3: you know for the letters on the Yeah, months, I mean,

2:00:02 Speaker 3: it was ridiculous. But fortunately somebody came up with a

2:00:05 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two phone book directory. I mean, and also

2:00:10 Speaker 3: originally I told you, you know, when I worked there,

2:00:14 Speaker 3: I was on the front page of the paper, so

2:00:16 Speaker 3: they were still able to archive, you know, bring that

2:00:19 Speaker 3: back from the archives. And you know, Bob Blazar a

2:00:21 Speaker 3: physicist working here at Los Alamos, so there was at

2:00:24 Speaker 3: least something there. But somehow George came up with the

2:00:28 Speaker 3: phone directory.

2:00:29 Speaker 2: And then George. Then Bob took George with cameras into

2:00:32 Speaker 2: Los Alamos.

2:00:33 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. So we flew out there and I said, look,

2:00:36 Speaker 3: come on in, I'll show you where I worked. We'll

2:00:38 Speaker 3: go in, we'll meet people. And George went with me

2:00:41 Speaker 3: and you knowgate the place, Oh yeah, you know, met people,

2:00:46 Speaker 3: you know, and.

2:00:48 Speaker 1: Was also the place where they had the machine that

2:00:51 Speaker 1: was able to read the size of your digits.

2:00:54 Speaker 3: No, no, that was that was S four.

2:00:56 Speaker 1: That was S four, and explain that.

2:00:59 Speaker 4: So well, now this was back in the eighties.

2:01:02 Speaker 1: And this is back in the eighties where when you

2:01:04 Speaker 1: discuss this people like this doesn't even exist. Yeah, okay,

2:01:07 Speaker 1: what was it?

2:01:08 Speaker 3: It was a way you know, this is before fingerprint

2:01:11 Speaker 3: scanners and you know, and anything of any high resolution

2:01:17 Speaker 3: scanner of that time. So what it was was a

2:01:19 Speaker 3: device that had a little picture of a hand on

2:01:22 Speaker 3: a glass plate with pins in it, so you could

2:01:25 Speaker 3: jam your hand in there, and there was a bright

2:01:27 Speaker 3: light above it and a sensor underneath, and when you

2:01:30 Speaker 3: put your hand in there, the light would turn on

2:01:33 Speaker 3: and it would measure the bones in your finger because

2:01:36 Speaker 3: the light shone through your bones and apparently the length

2:01:42 Speaker 3: of the bones in your fingers are extremely unique and

2:01:45 Speaker 3: easy to measure, and they use that when you put

2:01:48 Speaker 3: your hands on there, the light would turn on and

2:01:50 Speaker 3: your badge would pop out. Oh there it is. That's it.

2:01:53 Speaker 3: And I tried to describe this to people and they said,

2:01:57 Speaker 3: that is the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard. And

2:02:01 Speaker 3: I said, hey, that my badge came out of that thing.

2:02:03 Speaker 3: I put my hand on it, badge popped out, and

2:02:05 Speaker 3: that's how I could open the doors and get into

2:02:07 Speaker 3: AS four and you know.

2:02:10 Speaker 1: And everybody discredited that, they said it was bullshit of

2:02:13 Speaker 1: science fiction. And Jeremy, you found this.

2:02:15 Speaker 2: I found it through a good friend of mine named

2:02:18 Speaker 2: Tyler rogu Away, and he had some good sources inside

2:02:20 Speaker 2: of fifty two where they also used these for the

2:02:23 Speaker 2: stealth program right around that time. So now I've got

2:02:26 Speaker 2: all these people that worked within who you know, said

2:02:29 Speaker 2: only if you're in certain programs would we use this technology.

2:02:32 Speaker 2: Its kind of shit. Actually, they didn't keep it for

2:02:34 Speaker 2: very long beginning of biometrics, so I was able to

2:02:36 Speaker 2: reveal it in my film. I kept my mouth shut

2:02:39 Speaker 2: until I showed it to Bob, you know, in the movie.

2:02:41 Speaker 2: Is the first time he saw it was how you

2:02:43 Speaker 2: see it in the documentary. That's his genuine reaction. I'm

2:02:46 Speaker 2: getting goosebumps.

2:02:46 Speaker 1: That was a great idea the way you did it.

2:02:48 Speaker 2: Thank you man, because you know it. Guess what I'm

2:02:50 Speaker 2: actually trying to see if he's telling the truth. That's

2:02:52 Speaker 2: how I started, you know, That's how I started. So

2:02:54 Speaker 2: it was really cool to see that and that you

2:02:56 Speaker 2: get to see it his actual reaction.

2:02:58 Speaker 1: Has that been verified by other people?

2:03:00 Speaker 2: Yeah? So yeah, so to me it has personally. I

2:03:04 Speaker 2: get emails every day and people are telling me where

2:03:07 Speaker 2: these are used and how they're used. In the semi photos,

2:03:09 Speaker 2: I got a lot of photos of IDENTI matts.

2:03:10 Speaker 1: Now, well how they were used, right, They're not how

2:03:12 Speaker 1: they were used us?

2:03:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't. The most recent one was way

2:03:17 Speaker 2: more recent than I thought, in another country. But yeah,

2:03:19 Speaker 2: that technology was used. So what's so funny is that

2:03:25 Speaker 2: this technology even in the area fifty two where they'd

2:03:28 Speaker 2: use him for Tonapaw, one of the guys who will

2:03:30 Speaker 2: go on camera and he will do an interview with me.

2:03:33 Speaker 2: He was a technician for one of these and he

2:03:36 Speaker 2: hated them because they were really bad. They always broke

2:03:38 Speaker 2: down and never and he was a technician for him.

2:03:41 Speaker 2: Now he won't tell me where if he worked at

2:03:43 Speaker 2: Area fifty two, so it's probably Tona, PA. It's very separated,

2:03:47 Speaker 2: even on base.

2:03:48 Speaker 1: But yeah, so there was that. Yeah, there is your

2:03:52 Speaker 1: education record that was also like what happened with that?

2:03:57 Speaker 3: Well that disappeared. Also, you know that I've never gone.

2:04:03 Speaker 3: I've never gone anywhere for education. I've never gone. I

2:04:07 Speaker 3: never attended any classes at Caltech. I never attended anything

2:04:10 Speaker 3: at MIT.

2:04:11 Speaker 1: You did ten classes in those places?

2:04:14 Speaker 3: I did a ten classes in those places.

2:04:15 Speaker 1: Do you know anybody that you went to school with? Yes?

2:04:18 Speaker 1: I do, And have they verified that they went to

2:04:20 Speaker 1: school with you? Well?

2:04:21 Speaker 3: I gave Jeremy some names. But yeah. The reason I

2:04:25 Speaker 3: don't say these names publicly is because every single time

2:04:29 Speaker 3: I mentioned a name, somebody gets into.

2:04:32 Speaker 1: I don't want to Yeah, yeah, of course, But what

2:04:37 Speaker 1: is that experience like seeing your birth certificate erase, seeing

2:04:41 Speaker 1: your employment?

2:04:42 Speaker 3: Well, it's frightening, it's it's absolutely.

2:04:45 Speaker 1: It's also the fuel that the debunkers use the so

2:04:48 Speaker 1: called air quote skeptics. I don't like the term skeptics.

2:04:51 Speaker 1: I'm want to say this pubably because I really only

2:04:53 Speaker 1: said this privately. I think it's a sloppy, lazy way

2:04:56 Speaker 1: to look at things, to just be a skeptic. I

2:05:00 Speaker 1: want people to be objective, and I think there's a

2:05:03 Speaker 1: lot of things you should be skeptical of. I think

2:05:07 Speaker 1: you should. You should look at things and look at

2:05:09 Speaker 1: things from a hard line science perspective.

2:05:13 Speaker 4: You should be objective.

2:05:15 Speaker 1: But the idea of skeptics, the problem with that is

2:05:17 Speaker 1: you're always looking for things to be bullshit. Yah. And

2:05:19 Speaker 1: I think that's dangerous because I think some things aren't bullshit.

2:05:22 Speaker 2: It's confirmation biased. On the other end, you're just deciding

2:05:25 Speaker 2: to take a square thing and put it in a

2:05:26 Speaker 2: round hole no matter what.

2:05:27 Speaker 1: And I find a lot of them to be lazy,

2:05:30 Speaker 1: a lot of them to be lazy thinkers, because they're

2:05:32 Speaker 1: always putting it into that box instead of going hmm,

2:05:36 Speaker 1: instead of just separating their ego. They're trying. They're playing

2:05:39 Speaker 1: a game, and the game is calling bullshit. I want

2:05:42 Speaker 1: to call bullshit, and I'm going to line up all

2:05:44 Speaker 1: these reasons why it's bullshit, and I'm going to ignore

2:05:46 Speaker 1: anything that might be contrary to that definition.

2:05:49 Speaker 4: Yeah, that does.

2:05:50 Speaker 2: Every time I'm thinking, I'm going to catch him in something.

2:05:52 Speaker 2: You know. All along this process I found doctor Krangle.

2:05:55 Speaker 2: He came forward and said, I was in security briefings

2:05:57 Speaker 2: with Bob Lazar, the physicist Atlas, and almost he went

2:06:00 Speaker 2: on the record with me. Now, the other people I

2:06:02 Speaker 2: talked with, why won't they go on the record with me?

2:06:04 Speaker 2: Because they're still working there. So that that's the difference, right,

2:06:08 Speaker 2: what is that? What can the public have or even.

2:06:10 Speaker 1: If they're not working there, you know, they want to

2:06:12 Speaker 1: live their lives. I mean, obviously people have seen what's

2:06:15 Speaker 1: happened to you.

2:06:16 Speaker 2: Mike Thigpin after thirty years.

2:06:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, really fond if you look at all the information

2:06:21 Speaker 3: on you know, concerning my accounts, that's that's verifiable. It

2:06:27 Speaker 3: can't possibly be a bullshit story anymore. It's really way

2:06:32 Speaker 3: past that point. Yeah, I mean that was my big

2:06:35 Speaker 3: pin is I mean, how is that? Who is this possibly?

2:06:37 Speaker 1: Now?

2:06:38 Speaker 2: Uh So, Mike big Pin was the guy that did

2:06:42 Speaker 2: the security clearances to go to the bait. One of

2:06:44 Speaker 2: the guys that was this.

2:06:45 Speaker 1: Is the guy that you work with.

2:06:46 Speaker 2: He said he did, right, and and George Knapp, you know,

2:06:50 Speaker 2: George didn't believe him. George put him through four polygraph tests, right,

2:06:54 Speaker 2: He tried to see. Man, this is a big risk.

2:06:56 Speaker 2: It sounds interesting, but let's see if he's telling the truth.

2:07:00 Speaker 2: One of the things was Bob said, there's a guy

2:07:02 Speaker 2: named Mike Thike Pin. He did security clearances for the

2:07:04 Speaker 2: Bass And that's a weird name, it's very specific. For

2:07:08 Speaker 2: thirty years, George found this guy in this weird department

2:07:12 Speaker 2: that he didn't even know. It was my big pin.

2:07:14 Speaker 2: The guy wouldn't talk to me, ghosted him totally, ghosting

2:07:16 Speaker 2: for thirty years. Used Facebook and Google image match through

2:07:19 Speaker 2: his children. I was able to find him after thirty years,

2:07:22 Speaker 2: and I talked to him three times on the phone.

2:07:25 Speaker 2: He lives on the East Coast. He almost went on

2:07:27 Speaker 2: camera with me. Confirmed that he did security clearances for

2:07:30 Speaker 2: the base in nineteen eighty nine. Confirmed he remembers Bob Lazaar.

2:07:34 Speaker 2: And what you don't know is there's a handwritten note

2:07:36 Speaker 2: that a friend of yours has from Mike. What I know,

2:07:39 Speaker 2: I'm gonna give it to you later. I don't, but

2:07:41 Speaker 2: that is real. That is actual, so handwritten. Oh this

2:07:43 Speaker 2: is what you know? Like this is so when I when.

2:07:47 Speaker 3: You're when they do security clearances, they go through all

2:07:53 Speaker 3: your friends and.

2:07:53 Speaker 2: Fa They go to a friend. Yeah, yeah, so this

2:07:55 Speaker 2: is too Bob and I had people come to me

2:07:59 Speaker 2: for a friend of mine that's sir, and they're doing

2:08:00 Speaker 2: a security cliance for him. And even though I'm like

2:08:03 Speaker 2: the UFO guy, they did, you know, the f back

2:08:05 Speaker 2: come and visit my house and make sure that they

2:08:07 Speaker 2: talk about my friend, and they lift a little card.

2:08:10 Speaker 2: And when my wife told him to get away because

2:08:12 Speaker 2: he didn't know who they were, they left a little card.

2:08:14 Speaker 2: It's super cute. Now. Back then it was a handwritten

2:08:17 Speaker 2: note and his friend has it for him that you

2:08:19 Speaker 2: haven't seen in oh my god, two decades. So if

2:08:23 Speaker 2: you're listening, what is his card? It's just a little

2:08:28 Speaker 2: handwritten note with Mike Thigpin's signature.

2:08:30 Speaker 1: Card like a like a like a postcard.

2:08:33 Speaker 2: Like a piece of paper that he left on the

2:08:35 Speaker 2: door saying when Bob gets back or whatever it says

2:08:37 Speaker 2: on it. So it's just another little funny thing I found.

2:08:40 Speaker 2: The guy he does his security clearances. He admitted to

2:08:42 Speaker 2: me he did it, and he admitted to me he

2:08:44 Speaker 2: was dodging George Knapp because when George said his name

2:08:46 Speaker 2: on the news, he dropped his fork into his steak

2:08:50 Speaker 2: or into his potatoes or whatever, and he's looking at

2:08:52 Speaker 2: his wife. He was in trouble. His name's never supposed

2:08:55 Speaker 2: to be out there, like it's just a security clearance guy.

2:08:57 Speaker 2: But you don't want national attention associated with anything Bob

2:09:00 Speaker 2: has to say. But anyway, this unique name, Bob said,

2:09:04 Speaker 2: for thirty years, and the guy ghosted George Knapp. George

2:09:06 Speaker 2: could prove he existed. He actually talked to me. Man,

2:09:09 Speaker 2: he talked to me three times. He almost went on

2:09:11 Speaker 2: camera with me. It's just crazy what happens after thirty years,

2:09:15 Speaker 2: you just get more info.

2:09:16 Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the reasons why when you and

2:09:20 Speaker 1: me and Jeremy and George Knapp had that conversation on

2:09:24 Speaker 1: the phone, I said, I think what we can do

2:09:28 Speaker 1: with this podcast is important. I really do. I think

2:09:33 Speaker 1: it's important for people to hear this from you in

2:09:36 Speaker 1: a very clear, just very concise way. And if you

2:09:44 Speaker 1: examine all the information that you've said today, if you

2:09:48 Speaker 1: look at all the things that the detractors have said,

2:09:50 Speaker 1: if you look at all of the new recent evidence

2:09:53 Speaker 1: that's coming out, and all these really high level people

2:09:57 Speaker 1: in the military and the government that are discussing this,

2:10:01 Speaker 1: it gives you far more credibility than you would have

2:10:06 Speaker 1: had in the nineteen shitties when this came out.

2:10:09 Speaker 2: Yes, you can't his story just because you don't like

2:10:13 Speaker 2: it anymore.

2:10:13 Speaker 1: That's why I thought it was important that you come

2:10:15 Speaker 1: out and refresh the world's memory and let people know.

2:10:19 Speaker 1: And like I said, I've been I mean, I want

2:10:20 Speaker 1: to say I'm a fan of yours, but I guess

2:10:22 Speaker 1: I'm a fan of yours as a human being. I'm

2:10:24 Speaker 1: a fan of yours, but I've been following you for decades.

2:10:27 Speaker 1: I've been following the story for decades.

2:10:28 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm kidding.

2:10:30 Speaker 2: I have VHS tape like a lot of the world has. Yeah,

2:10:33 Speaker 2: it's crazy.

2:10:34 Speaker 1: Well, anybody that has any sort of a vested interest

2:10:38 Speaker 1: or just a even just a fascination with UFOs has

2:10:43 Speaker 1: followed your story because there's no one else. There's no

2:10:48 Speaker 1: one else that comes forward. There's some guy who said,

2:10:50 Speaker 1: I worked underground with the aliens. They shot my hand off,

2:10:52 Speaker 1: Like there's a bunch of like wacky dudes. They're underground,

2:10:55 Speaker 1: there's bases, They're shooting lasers through the Earth's crust and

2:10:57 Speaker 1: I move them at light speed. There's a lot of

2:10:59 Speaker 1: the those guys. They seem schizophrenic, they seem crazy. They

2:11:02 Speaker 1: might even be disinformation agents. They might be people that

2:11:05 Speaker 1: are designed to muddy the waters, which for sure has happened.

2:11:09 Speaker 2: People are coming forward though now. It's amazing. By doing this,

2:11:12 Speaker 2: what you're doing, you're providing an opportunity for Bob to

2:11:15 Speaker 2: tell his story. You know, believe it or not, he

2:11:17 Speaker 2: can tell his story. It's amazing because more people will

2:11:20 Speaker 2: come forward now that are involved with these projects. They'll

2:11:25 Speaker 2: come forward to you, to me. They're coming forward, and

2:11:27 Speaker 2: so what you've done here is provide that opportunity if

2:11:29 Speaker 2: they need it, and it's amazing. I just want to say, Bob.

2:11:32 Speaker 4: Just don't come forward to me.

2:11:33 Speaker 2: No, don't come forward to Bob. Why were you freaking

2:11:38 Speaker 2: nauseous at the beginning of this, like so upset? Why

2:11:42 Speaker 2: was your why do you have a migraine? Because that

2:11:44 Speaker 2: started off so hard? My god, I was sitting here

2:11:45 Speaker 2: like did this?

2:11:46 Speaker 1: Why are you asking him why? Because of anxiety? The

2:11:49 Speaker 1: guy's gone to thirty fucking years of being persecuted.

2:11:54 Speaker 2: From I want to hear him say. I want them

2:11:56 Speaker 2: to say that you don't I step out down?

2:12:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, well I get it.

2:12:03 Speaker 2: You were you were.

2:12:04 Speaker 1: It was hard for you to get them here, you know,

2:12:06 Speaker 1: and I appreciate for us. Yeah you wow, You don't.

2:12:09 Speaker 3: What really annoys me are the people that think, you know,

2:12:12 Speaker 3: you guys just came up with the story to make

2:12:14 Speaker 3: a bunch of money or get a bunch of you know, attention.

2:12:16 Speaker 1: And that's a good point. So please explain that I don't.

2:12:19 Speaker 3: Get any money out of this at all. And I may.

2:12:22 Speaker 3: I didn't even let you guys buy plane tickets for

2:12:24 Speaker 3: me to come out here or anything. I mean anytime.

2:12:28 Speaker 3: Like when Jeremy uh pre previewed I guess the movie

2:12:33 Speaker 3: up in Michigan, I mean they it brought in like

2:12:36 Speaker 3: a couple thousand dollars. I made sure that two thousand

2:12:38 Speaker 3: dollars went to science programs at the local high schools there.

2:12:42 Speaker 2: I don't dirty money.

2:12:43 Speaker 1: I don't want to touch it.

2:12:44 Speaker 3: I don't take any money from this stuff. And as

2:12:46 Speaker 3: far as attention, I hate fucking attention. I don't like

2:12:52 Speaker 3: being on shows. I just want to kind of hide

2:12:54 Speaker 3: in the corner and do my own thing. So it's

2:12:56 Speaker 3: I got enough hugs when I was a kid, Okay,

2:12:58 Speaker 3: I don't need any attention. So no that if if

2:13:02 Speaker 3: you if you think somehow we came up with this thing,

2:13:05 Speaker 3: then you got to tell me why we did it.

2:13:08 Speaker 1: Well, you've done a great job of making sure you

2:13:10 Speaker 1: have your basis covered in that regard that you haven't

2:13:13 Speaker 1: profited off of this, and like you said that you

2:13:14 Speaker 1: have donated whatever money that came your way to science programs.

2:13:18 Speaker 1: It's I mean it. It doesn't make any sense any

2:13:22 Speaker 1: other way. I mean, what you're what I've gotten out

2:13:25 Speaker 1: of here is what I thought I was going to

2:13:27 Speaker 1: get out of here when I watched the documentary that

2:13:29 Speaker 1: you what you're saying makes sense. It doesn't make sense

2:13:32 Speaker 1: that it's bullshit.

2:13:34 Speaker 3: It happened exactly like I said it did.

2:13:36 Speaker 1: Joe, I believe you. In closing, is there anything else

2:13:40 Speaker 1: you'd like to say?

2:13:43 Speaker 3: No, I can't think of anything other than really don't

2:13:45 Speaker 3: come and try to visit me.

2:13:49 Speaker 1: Well, I know that you have paid a huge personal

2:13:53 Speaker 1: cost to get this information out, and I mean maybe

2:13:56 Speaker 1: you didn't understand what that cost would have been when

2:13:58 Speaker 1: you first initially came forward with the story, But over

2:14:01 Speaker 1: the past thirty years it's been immense. It's been great,

2:14:04 Speaker 1: and I just want to thank you for that and

2:14:06 Speaker 1: thank you for all these people that would not have

2:14:09 Speaker 1: gotten this information. It would not have really had this

2:14:12 Speaker 1: story any other way.

2:14:13 Speaker 4: Oh, thanks Joe, thank.

2:14:14 Speaker 1: You, and thank you Jeremy. And one more time. The

2:14:17 Speaker 1: documentary is available on Netflix right now.

2:14:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called Bob Lazar Area fifty one Flying Saucers.

2:14:23 Speaker 1: All right, that's it, folks, good night, Thank you

2:14:29 Speaker 2: JA yeah d